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« Last post by stone on April 25, 2024, 09:33:17 am »
makes me much more sympathetic towards GF's demonstration. Evidently he wasn't provoking something that otherwise wouldn't be there (that was what I had ignorantly presumed).
Judging by the timings, I don’t believe Mike’s (terrible) experience -on Monday- was related to any authorised procession.
The antagonising person to whom you refer, was not assaulted, nor were they the recipient of any hateful speech, etc. on that well publicised day. A police officer in a long conversation with them, used an ill-advised phrase/reason, and the police more generally prevented them from (repeatedly attempting to) counter-protesting within the procession.
The person to which you refer, could have organised and registered their intention to have a procession against the unacceptable abuse and harassment being experienced by the Jewish community (and the Met Police’s response, that appears to be their issue). That may have been facilitated elsewhere. Instead they sought to conflate two issues: pro-Palestinian support and anti- harassment of Jewish people in the UK (especially London). Two issues which, I’m sure, are simultaneously supported by many people.
The transcript at https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-footage-reveals-new-details-of-exchange-between-police-and-antisemitism-campaigner-called-openly-jewish-13120104 says: As well as chants of "Palestine will be free" there were also shouts of "shame on you" and "scum". On what basis was it OK for them to shout "shame on you" and "scum"? Are you claiming that was purely to do with GF walking against the flow of marchers or something? My interpretation is that the people shouting "shame on you" and "scum" were doing so because they were blaming anyone wearing a kippah for the horrors in Gaza. It is so wrong to do that -don't you agree? It is not enough to personally not view random British Jews as being to blame for Gaza. What appals me is that fellow marchers didn't step in and remonstrate with those who were shouting such abuse. The only thing that protects the whole world from descending into a Gaza type nightmare is the extent to which we stand up for neighbours who aren't like us.
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« Last post by Wellsy on April 25, 2024, 09:15:50 am »
I think maybe Mike's point is that even Jews who are out protesting against the war in Gaza don't feel safe if they don't join in with things like, say, "from the river to the sea..." (I certainly wouldn't join in with that; I'm not Jewish).
My brother lives in London and some people were celebrating in the streets in the wake of 7th October. He's also shared some graffiti that appeared in his local park: a spray-painted star of David with the word "scum" underneath.
Even pre-7th Oct in 2021 I had to report some stickers that had appeared in suburban West Yorkshire. A load of mad conspiracy shit, including one of the star of David and the words "Britain Is Under Occupation".
I’m fucking done with extremists of all stripes.
Protesting or fighting for basic freedoms and simple human rights? Crack on, I’m with you.
Rosa, wasn’t advocating the genocide or oppression of others, only the obvious injustice of segregation. Aka, protesting for basic human rights and freedoms.
Any right minded person can see the Oct 7th was wrong, just as the same person should see the subsequent response in the same light.
I work with a Palestinian who is ardently anti-Hummus (for the Google bots, I think he enjoys crushed Chickpeas). I know plenty of Muslims who are passionately anti-religious extremism, despite being devout.
Aside: I traveled to Amsterdam last Nov with an Egyptian friend, who became vocal and (frankly) embarrassingly confrontational, with some Dutch Muslims at immigration, because of how they were dressed and their obviously strict attitude to Islam. Arguing with them about whether theirs was a true interpretation of the Koran. Then endured a long rant about how “these people” discredit his entire religion and the people of the middle East in the taxi to our hotel.
I’ve heard all kinds of different opinions from Muslims regarding Israel and Palestine. Many that surprised me.
There is obviously a huge difference between various groups of Israelis, with the current situation massively protested there.
I’m becoming an anti-extremist, extremist…
(That’s a weak joke, not an actual position).
Fed up with idiots who think extreme acts will solve anything. They just make things worse and make resolution a pipe dream and the lives of ordinary people miserable.
Ultimately, idiots who provoke confrontation are just handing ammunition to those who would like to see all forms of protest eliminated. I absolutely draw a line between legitimate protest against injustice and advocating for discrimination or violence against A.N.Other group.
Broadly I'd agree with you but I would say that part of the issue is the definition of extremism and how some actors look to use that to influence the narrative. For example, "Free Palestine" is a statement which to the Israeli government and it's supporters is extremist, antisemitic etc. For others it is an eminently sensible and moral thing to state and support. I think that saying, for example, that the UK shouldn't sell arms to a fascistic Israeli gov is perfectly reasonable. Practically and morally how does it benefit us! Suggest that to the Israeli ambassador to the UK and I suspect you'll be labelled something along the lines of extremist. And as Will says, we get "The Woke Mob" chucked around now. To Suella going out on these marches basically makes you an extremist. This comes along in lots of other areas too, not just this one. So yeah I do broadly agree but also I'm cautious of statements which appear like basic common sense really but then get muddy when you ask who says what is extremism?
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« Last post by Tony on April 25, 2024, 08:49:39 am »
makes me much more sympathetic towards GF's demonstration. Evidently he wasn't provoking something that otherwise wouldn't be there (that was what I had ignorantly presumed).
Judging by the timings, I don’t believe Mike’s (terrible) experience -on Monday- was related to any authorised procession. The antagonising person to whom you refer, was not assaulted, nor were they the recipient of any hateful speech, etc. on that well publicised day. A police officer in a long conversation with them, used an ill-advised phrase/reason, and the police more generally prevented them from (repeatedly attempting to) counter-protesting within the procession. The person to which you refer, could have organised and registered their intention to have a procession against the unacceptable abuse and harassment being experienced by the Jewish community (and the Met Police’s response, that appears to be their issue). That may have been facilitated elsewhere. Instead they sought to conflate two issues: pro-Palestinian support and anti- harassment of Jewish people in the UK (especially London). Two issues which, I’m sure, are simultaneously supported by many people.
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« Last post by SA Chris on April 25, 2024, 08:34:54 am »
In the words of Douglas Ballaytyne "Ah'm oot"
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« Last post by SA Chris on April 25, 2024, 08:33:19 am »
[Challenge was to spend over a tenner and manage to eat it all.
My recollection of 1990s Bradford curry house meals is that chapatis were provided as a free accompaniment with more being offered if you ate the ones provided. So "eating it all" would, I guess, entail depleting global wheat stocks!
I expect you are right, I think I forgot that detail.
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« Last post by shark on April 25, 2024, 08:31:58 am »
Carpet bagging potential maybe with Skipton Building Society which is well capitalised so possible £2k to each member if it does demutualise. They have close ties to Barclays. There’s a 4% bond that confers membership and I believe £500 is the minimum to be a member. No downside so worth a punt IMO. www.skipton.co.uk/savings/fixed-rate-bonds/5-year-fixed-rate-bond
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« Last post by SA Chris on April 25, 2024, 08:26:25 am »
Anyone know if Steve Dunning's dyno Super Furry Animal at Slipstones has had a repeat?
Surprised at this if no-one?
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« Last post by edshakey on April 25, 2024, 08:24:24 am »
Not weird, but mainstream. Does anyone in climbing actually call him "Toby the terminator"?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/apr/24/toby-the-terminator-roberts-climbing-paris-olympic-games-2024
From the way it's written, I'd guess the commentator (was it Matt Groom?) said it as an offhand comment on the Edinburgh livestream. Never heard it myself, but since Natalie wrote the article, I'm inclined to believe it's not completely fabricated... I hope 
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« Last post by SA Chris on April 25, 2024, 08:21:57 am »
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« Last post by remus on April 25, 2024, 06:59:37 am »
Bit of a niche one, but don't suppose anyone has a copy of Pat Aments 2009 film 'The Disciples of Gill'?
Yes, I do! Delayed reply because I had to locate it and retrieve it -- didn't want to make any promises until I knew I could actually lay hands on it. Do you want to borrow/copy it?
Ah that's amazing, thanks so much for digging it out! Yeah I'd love to borrow it if that's ok? I'll drop you a DM.
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