UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: cha1n on April 20, 2014, 09:15:59 pm
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I'm having a think about increasing my finger strength as it's a definite weakness of mine. Whenever I've tried it I've never managed past a few weeks because I find it so boring!
Will climbing on a woodie be as efficient (or at least close) as dead hanging?
I did a little bit of weight training before I started climbing and I much preferred compound exercises which worked lots of stuff at one time (again, mainly due to boredom) and I was thinking that perhaps woodie training could be the equivalent. 3-4 moves at a high intensity should still increase finger strength but core, co-ordination and lots of other stuff gets worked too.
Do the ukb experts agree or do we have to be the equivalent of body builders where we isolate everything we train?
Thanks for any advice.
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I've often wondered on the effectiveness of fingerboarding vs bouldering, but have never decided on an opinion on the matter. I do think that I get better gains bouldering outside than inside, not sure why, might just be that I'm better at trying hard on rock than plastic.
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I guess it depends how you assess your gains.
I suppose that's one advantage of deadhanging, that gains are measurable over a time period with less variables involved.
I also climb much better (in climbing grades) outdoors but I'm certain that it's because I have sweaty skin and I usually only climb outside when conditions are good.
It's the fear that assessing my gains would be difficult on a woody that puts me off. Also, I struggle for friction on plastic let alone wood!
I think like most things though, my training has to be sustainable and I don't think I could generate that much enthusiasm for hanging from a strip of wood without tales of glory!
P.S. Does anyone actually manage to get on with other things whilst fingerboarding? In many articles I've read the authors mentioning watching tv etc whilst training - please tell me that nobody actually manages this? Listening to some music I can understand...
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I fingerboard when the footy is on the radio..
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Or when mrsTT wants me to empty the dishwasher (etc..) that normally provides motivation :D
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I guess it depends how you assess your gains.
I suppose that's one advantage of deadhanging, that gains are measurable over a time period with less variables involved.
It's the fear that assessing my gains would be difficult on a woody that puts me off.
I assess gains by whether I can climb harder boulders and do harder moves on routes than I could before, whether things that used to feel hard now feel easy etc. Maybe the gains from outside are bigger because of subtle movement improvements rather than raw strength, but that doesn't matter. What I want to do is get good at climbing hard boulders and routes, not arbitrary feats of strength. That said, I do like fingerboarding for the ease of modulating and slowly increasing intensity by adding weight or reducing assistance.
I think like most things though, my training has to be sustainable and I don't think I could generate that much enthusiasm for hanging from a strip of wood without tales of glory!
I find it hard to drag myself away from bouldering at the wall to do hangs, but once I've started I quite enjoy it. As I alluded to in my first post, there's a risk that if you're not motivated for it you'll not try as hard, and I'd guess that trying at your max is far more important than whether you're hanging or bouldering, or subtleties like hang times.
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It's the fear that assessing my gains would be difficult on a woody that puts me off. Also, I struggle for friction on plastic let alone wood!
whats to stop you still assessing your finger strength (if thats what you re focusing on with the board) with a set hold on an fingerboard anyway? even if you arent training with the fingerboard you can still use it to gauge progress...
anecdotally the strongest my fingers have ever gotten was from board climbing
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I fingerboard when the footy is on the radio..
Is that meant to reduce the boredom, or increase it. I have the iPad on a highchair and usually watch something, not bouldering films though.
I think fingerboarding is a good way to target finger strength specifically, and the appeal is that you can always benefit from stronger fingers, and it's something that is easy to train at home with relatively little outlay. I know if I had a woody (will soon, hopefully!) I would enjoy using it more, and therefore use it more. I struggle to use finger board more than once a week, from a motivational POV, and that my fingers are usually pretty sore afterwards for a day or so.
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the best increase in strength I've ever had is by combining them both. Id warm up, then climb 12 problems at my limit on the board, then a little rest and finish with 4 sets of 4 hangs.
This is the best increase in strength I've ever had, it worked much better than either of them individually. I was adding at least a few seconds to every hang session for the 6 month period that I did it.
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Not that I am a particular fan of fingerboarding or feats of useless strength, but I think that it's a lot easier to measure progress with a fingerboard, to measure the volume of training.
Also, on a fingerboard you can perfectly adjust the prehension for each hang, while on boulders sometimes you catch a hold with fingers in akward positions and it can be dangerous.
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Not that I am a particular fan of fingerboarding or feats of useless strength
This made me smile.
Is useless strength like a fun run, ie nonexistent.
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;D
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P.S. Does anyone actually manage to get on with other things whilst fingerboarding? In many articles I've read the authors mentioning watching tv etc whilst training - please tell me that nobody actually manages this? Listening to some music I can understand...
I do fingerboarding while cooking (as it's in the kitchen) although it does mess up the rest timings a bit sometimes, I think it's quite an efficient use of time, and keeps me busy enough that it doesn't seem boring. I can also see the TV from the fingerboard, so might be half watching it.
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P.S. Does anyone actually manage to get on with other things whilst fingerboarding? In many articles I've read the authors mentioning watching tv etc whilst training - please tell me that nobody actually manages this? Listening to some music I can understand...
Laundry, Clean House, Cook, read, watch tv/movie/etc., Other exercises(my preference), etc.
Repeaters kill my elbows, so I mainly do max hangs with 5min rest between hangs when I FB. Gives loads of time to do other stuff....
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I sometimes do sets of press-ups between shirts whilst ironing. Personally I find fingerboard requires more mental focus so i can't see it working so well.
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It's made worse by the fact that there is both concentric, eccentric, and isometric strength profiles as well as the variance between dynamic strength(contact strength or catching the hold), vs static strength(hanging the hold).
I think it's fairly safe to assume that deadhanging is the best way to gain static isometric strength, and an argument could be made for it being the best way to gain both eccentric and concentric strength as well. I'm in no way convinced it's the best way to gain contact strength.
It also is crap at training accuracy, which is really underrated in importance for many people.
In answer to the original question -
I'd say it extremely relative to your personal strengths. If you already have relatively strong fingers, then you'd be better off on a steep board. If you've got relatively weak fingers, then you'd likely be better off with some directed FB, then transitioning to a board and alternating cycles.
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Seems like there are two separate topics here:
1. how do you measure "finger strength"?
But if your answer to 1. is "... can hang the x hold on my fingerboard for y seconds", which seems to be the case for lots of people, then it is pretty likely that training on the fingerboard itself is going to be the best way to improve against that benchmark!
I measure finger strength by, warming up fingers thoroughly, standing on bathroom scales, holding small edge and attempting to do a one arm pull up.... recording lowest reading. Obviously this will not work for very strong people who can do a one armer on a small edge as the scale will go to zero... however for weaker mortals this gives a measure.
I do this twice a week, doing five maximum pulls on each hand. Slowly but surely improving.
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standing on bathroom scales
New secret weapon in the training toolbox? ;D
I serviced bike pedals last night in between sets... with loud noisey guitar on (in the garage)... the only issue was bike grease on the slopper holds making it tougher for the last few seconds. haha. I regularly do little jobs on the bike on the rest intervals. Next is changing disk brake pads. Its good to get both training done and a bike job, keeps the brownie point quota efficient :beer2:
My man cave needs a Bourbon shelf.
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Seems like there are two separate topics here:
1. how do you measure "finger strength"?
But if your answer to 1. is "... can hang the x hold on my fingerboard for y seconds", which seems to be the case for lots of people, then it is pretty likely that training on the fingerboard itself is going to be the best way to improve against that benchmark!
I measure finger strength by, warming up fingers thoroughly, standing on bathroom scales, holding small edge and attempting to do a one arm pull up.... recording lowest reading. Obviously this will not work for very strong people who can do a one armer on a small edge as the scale will go to zero... however for weaker mortals this gives a measure.
I do this twice a week, doing five maximum pulls on each hand. Slowly but surely improving.
I've been using this test/gauge for some time now, but furthermore, to get past the zero problem you just put on a weight belt - 5/10 kg. Which interestingly brings me to another point, which is, my best gains have always been when I FB using additional weight - again, 5/10 kg.
There seems to be a part of the process where the adaptive stimulus comes from telling my body that gravity is a little stronger than it is on planet earth. With the best will in the world, no matter whether on the FB or Woodie, it's hard not to be influenced by the perceived line between success/failure. The added weight demands an increase in intensity/output irrespective of whether or not you go to failure.
Some other tips/thoughts.
You can provide assistance with 1 or 2 fingers of the other hand, reducing this is you improve. Add weight again when required. Each hang is typically 5+ secs of maximal effort. By the way, this was a process I started with no additional weight. Interestingly, when I'm near the end of a session, and feeling tired, if I ditch the added weight, my deadhangs are always better than what I achieve in a workout without added weight. This is an effect I noticed when I used to train at The Foundry - I'd always pull harder on The Wave after a season on the campus board. Also, I tend to get injured less with the increased overload of additional weight. I think this is because, without the weight, I probably do more work overall and suffer more fatigue, but at a lower intensity. I.e. it's the fatigue that leads to injury, not the intensity of the workout.
Dave T.
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For me the most effective use of a fingerboard over the years has been for for injury-proofing on specific grips and for rehab.
Fingery bouldering is in almost all circs going to be a better use of your time (if you have the time, that is).
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1. how do you measure "finger strength"?
Generally by trying problems at my limit indoors (fairly consistent conditions), and getting a feel for how hard I can climb on worse holds. Often I find it harder to translate this to outdoors due to the other extenuating factors, but it seems to translate eventually by ticking more or harder climbs.
I would have thought that it would be more useful to get an intelligible measure of general improvement and strength, but difficult to get any useful numbers or measurement that apply directly to likelihood of climbing something harder.
The empirical, 'well, I can now pull off a move/climb that is much harder than I could previously', combined with how you feel and feedback from your body, seems to have worked best for me. :worms:
2. what is the best way to increase "finger strength"?
I found that doing sessions on the mother board tended to have a more profound effect on my over all strength, than dead-hangs and similar. I thought that the Gaskinsesque use bad footholds and harder handholds would work fingers, core shoulders etc. fairly well, and I found that it did have a good impact on my overall ability and strength over time.
Hand-in-hand with this I did manage to injure myself, by ignoring my body and not having enough rest time (plus an unfortunate slip of the foot). I have lost a fair amount of power from layoff, but I still feel that the overall improvement from using a woody was more beneficial than any time I have spent dead-hanging. I can still climb harder now, than before I used the woody and i haven't done any training for improvement since, just rehab.
These days as I no longer work in Sheffield and the nearest woody is Loughborough (I think), I am heading back to the fingerboard, but still think a woody would be a better option. I have read a few bits that suggest fingerboards should only be supplementary to climbing, and based on that, I would expect a woody would be the better option if you have time and access.
Fluff
In reality, spend the time and money going to the crag (if you can) and working hard. I found a summer at the Tor did untold wonders for my overall strength, but most of all my finger strength.
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Though with the counterweight you actually do the one armer rather than just taking off some strain...
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Bathroom scales? What are people talking about? You stand on a scale and then look down and try and record something while you're straining away? Can someone explain any benefits of this to me?
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I'm with dense on this one.
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Thanks for the replies everyone, some interesting reading here.
I haven't really been able to gauge progress by re-attempting problems that were too hard for me due to no rock nearby but I'll try it in future. I've only been climbing for just over 4 years (I think), so the improvement curve has been quite good up to now which makes knowing why I've improved tricky (for example, I tried Le Carnage 2 years ago and found it hard but did it the other day and it felt easy - I guess I'm stronger but my movement, co-ordination, etc must have improved too). However now, I don't think there's much improvement to come from technique and other subtleties, it's mainly core and finger strength which hold me back imo.
Interesting regarding the hangs on the scales thing. I need an electronics project for uni, so was thinking of trying to fashion a load-cell sensor under a hold with a display which records max weight and presumably some other useful things (I have to get my lecturer to approve that it's hard enough for a final year project so will need some potentially unnecessary fancy features). Prior to this idea I was thinking that holding a sling via a load-cell which records max/min, to take weight off during hangs would work. I agree that staring down at a set if scales may be awkward and encourage strange positions in the neck during hangs. I'm guessing that having good posture during hangs is important?!
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Perhaps putting your foot through a long sling that's attached to a load-cell or beefy set of luggage scales at head-height could work?
Would stop you having to look down at least!
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Load cells? Have I lost the plot completely?
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Load cells? Have I lost the plot completely?
yes.
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Thanks for the replies everyone, some interesting reading here.
I haven't really been able to gauge progress by re-attempting problems that were too hard for me due to no rock nearby but I'll try it in future. I've only been climbing for just over 4 years (I think), so the improvement curve has been quite good up to now which makes knowing why I've improved tricky (for example, I tried Le Carnage 2 years ago and found it hard but did it the other day and it felt easy - I guess I'm stronger but my movement, co-ordination, etc must have improved too). However now, I don't think there's much improvement to come from technique and other subtleties, it's mainly core and finger strength which hold me back imo.
Interesting regarding the hangs on the scales thing. I need an electronics project for uni, so was thinking of trying to fashion a load-cell sensor under a hold with a display which records max weight and presumably some other useful things (I have to get my lecturer to approve that it's hard enough for a final year project so will need some potentially unnecessary fancy features). Prior to this idea I was thinking that holding a sling via a load-cell which records max/min, to take weight off during hangs would work. I agree that staring down at a set if scales may be awkward and encourage strange positions in the neck during hangs. I'm guessing that having good posture during hangs is important?!
You would probably be better to mount an ergonomic board to the load cells, and attach those to a wall mounting plate. I would have thought a sling wouldn't be as comfortable or close to a grip, in terms of how you hold a hold and move off of it.
If you were really clever, you would use a bunch of constantly sampling load-cells and attach them to a larger board.
Stick a finger board at the top, and a series of campus rungs underneath.
Then use the sampling data to discern recruitment time, total force, measure training time etc. You could even have the module count reps, sets and rests when doing things like foot-on campusing, frenchies, deadhangs etc.
To make the project FMP material, I would expect data analysis/extrapolation and feedback would be a minimum requirement for something in this field. Time to don the arduino?
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What's that?
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What's that?
He doesn't know.
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What's that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_cell)
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My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?
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I think I've worked it out!
The 'arduino is the subatomic particle that makes things 'ard.
Otherwise known as the Wad particle.
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However now, I don't think there's much improvement to come from technique and other subtleties, it's mainly core and finger strength which hold me back imo.
I've been climbing on and off since 1989 and I think I'm still learning technique? Not saying it's the only thing to focus on, but just keep an open mind that there may still be a hell of a lot to learn.
Or are you from the Erik B and Rakim school?
Eric B. & Rakim - Don't Sweat The Technique (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y1Emb7Jyks#ws)
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Or are you from the Erik B and Rakim school?
Fish is my favourite dish...
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My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?
strain gauge
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I think it depends on how you interpret the question:
a.) In absolute terms i.e. which (Bouldering vs Finger boarding) will result in the greatest increase of isometric finger strength?
Then I think that finger boarding is more effective than bouldering, providing you use the correct technique / protocol.
or
b.) Which will result in the greatest increase in climbing ability and applied finger strength within the context of bouldering (as opposed to simply isometric hangs)? Then I think that bouldering is more effective.
Just my opinion, but I think the vast majority of training time should be bouldering on steep boards (between 30 and 45 degrees). Combined with a limited amount of finger boarding.
Finger boarding should definitely be included in training but only in addition to bouldering / as a supplementary exercise.
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My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?
http://www.arduino.cc/ (http://www.arduino.cc/) ?
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I'm sure there are still gains to come from technique but I think they'll be minor compared to those from strength increases. I'm not saying it's the case with yourself but I've met climbers who've been climbing 20 years and climb with terrible technique on anything off of a slab.
I focussed on technique a lot when I first started climbing, so would like to think that my technique is OK!
Slightly off topic but which Sheffield wall has the best training board? I'm relocating from Bristol in a month or so and am keen to get training. Too hot/wet to climb outside much in the summer anyway I'm guessing?
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which Sheffield wall has the best training board?
There is no easy answer - do you want to train for bouldering (then use the board at works?, but also consider the wave at the foundry which isnt in a board) or are you training for routes (then consider circuits on the board at the foundry?)?
If only the Foundry had a steep 45-50 degree board - how good would that be...
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>:(
My degree in electrical engineering coupled with removing and replacing a few load cells in the last couple of mths went part way to knowing what a load cell is. Now what's the fancy word?
http://www.arduino.cc/ (http://www.arduino.cc/) ?
Thanks for that, though I still think Wad particle it's a great concept.
"Arduino is a single-board microcontroller, intended to make the application of interactive objects or environments more accessible...
Introduced in 2005, it was designed to give students an inexpensive and easy way to program interactive objects. It comes with a simple integrated development environment (IDE)..."
Isn't that just The Motherboard at The Works?
Seriously though, and back to the original topic, like all these things, the "answer" if there is one, lies in your own application and motivation. The point of deadhangs, is simply to isolate that part of the whole. This is a useful supplement to your other work. There probably isn't a right answer. Sometimes I do footless circuits on my FB; sometimes I try to recruit on the actual holds of the problem I'm trying.
Using a FB can be a great way to monitor progress, so load cells or whatever recording/monitoring system could be useful. Personally, I often try deadhangs at a given weight. E.g. adding weight to train/monitor progress at 80kg. I'm not light though anyway! I used to record my running in a similar way, but using heart rate as the gauge.
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BTW,
totally unintended "cross" smiley in my post. Please feel free to add your own in any reply.
Also.. what about Ben Moon's new "school Room"? I don't know much about it, admission/membership etc, but I'm sure it'll be the best option for training on wood/boards.
Anyone else know much more about it?
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Well that's gone quite then?
I've heard its a 1000 pound a year to join
You get to climb with a bunch of miserable old bastards that are better surfers now then climbers and that's being generous.....test yourselves on splintered 20 year old problems that we all did in the nineties and to top it all you get to gobble moon off...
Smiley face
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To answer the OP it depends what finger strength you require.
Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.
While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem... Body position, footwork, core etc..
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Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.
While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...
Yes it's easier on the problem because you get to use your feet, which is why you can use bigger holds when fingerboarding and still get good results. I assume your dalliance with your Beastmaker has not had fruitful results then TT?
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holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...
That's true, but in and of itself is not necessarily an argument in favour of bouldering. Doing a moderately hard move halfway up a route is very different from doing an actually hard move off the floor, including the styles you're likely to climb the moves with, but it doesn't mean that route climbers shouldn't spend a large amount of their time bouldering.
I.e. (a) is different from (b) does not mean that (b) might not be the best way for someone to train for (a).
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Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.
While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...
Yes it's easier on the problem because you get to use your feet, which is why you can use bigger holds when fingerboarding and still get good results. I assume your dalliance with your Beastmaker has not had fruitful results then TT?
I'm being a bit glib above... But..
Not sure it's necessarily easier - it's different - hanging something uses your body in a very different way than climbing it (unless you campus all :) )
I use the BM to try and keep in shape when I can't make it to a crag or wall.. I've got better at crimping small holds in the last two years by climbing/working more crimpy small hold problems.. Many the time last summer I came back from Harmers/Farleton with aching fingers (in a good way!)
But - I think the BM is very good at identifying & possibly working weaknesses. Eg from playing on the BM I know my back two are shite.. And do try and work them on the BM. Though to be fair my under performing back two don't seem to hold me back on what I try...
I can see the value in warming up on one before trying crimpy fingery probs.. But for my own climbing now it's not so much finger strength that holds me back - more shoulders/arms/core. Stuff that doesn't really get a workout from the BM.
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holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem...
That's true, but in and of itself is not necessarily an argument in favour of bouldering. Doing a moderately hard move halfway up a route is very different from doing an actually hard move off the floor, including the styles you're likely to climb the moves with, but it doesn't mean that route climbers shouldn't spend a large amount of their time bouldering.
I.e. (a) is different from (b) does not mean that (b) might not be the best way for someone to train for (a).
Yes - i can see a stamina element in fingerboarding translating into routes.. Sorry my personal vista only extends as far as bouldering..
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To answer the OP it depends what finger strength you require.
Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.
While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem... Body position, footwork, core etc..
Quite right. It will make you better at deadhanging, and if you actually have relatively weak fingers, then you shoudl see really good gains from the FBing.
This is quite a common misunderstanding, and one reason I see a great amount of value in benchmarking yourself against others. i.e. if you can one arm hang the bottom middle slot on the BM, and you are bouldering 7C, then finger strength is not your weakness and you needn't FB-it won't help you. On the other hand if you can't hang the bottom outside edges two handed, but are bouldering 8A, then you should really do some FB work as you will likely see significant and quick gains.
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To answer the OP it depends what finger strength you require.
Dead hanging will increase your finger strength so you are better at dead hanging.
While many strength gains can be transferred, holding a tiny edge on a finger board is very different from holding the same tiny edge on a problem... Body position, footwork, core etc..
Deadhanging will increase your finger strength (if done in the right way) ergo, deadhanging will increase finger strength. Sounds pretty good to me.
All the other ancillaries are a bonus, of course.
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I can see the value in warming up on one before trying crimpy fingery probs.. But for my own climbing now it's not so much finger strength that holds me back - more shoulders/arms/core. Stuff that doesn't really get a workout from the BM.
After a decent BM session where I've tried hard, it's often my shoulders that are failing on the final set of repeaters along with my fingers, you also use a surprising amount of core stabilising yourself on the fingerboard when on smaller holds.
There's a big difference in climbing on crimps at places like Harmers where a lot of weight is on your feet, and you can do a lot with body position compared to on steeper ground (Trowbarrow for instance) where finger strength will be a lot more of a limiting factor.
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My original question was regarding efficiency of finger strength training but in reality I need to work on general strength too (shoulders, core, etc) so I was hoping that steep board work would work all factors without the monotony involved with fingerboarding.
I guess I was hoping that some of you guys might have trained both ways (isolating each group vs. training everything together such as steep board work) and would have some insight into which method yields better results.
I really enjoy the movement of climbing but also enjoy the feeling of progression in ability and whilst I understand the benefit of deadhanging it all feels a bit like being back at the gym (before I started climbing). I've briefly played on steep boards before and it still feels like you're climbing, albeit a rather basic style. I can work with that!
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I really enjoy the movement of climbing but also enjoy the feeling of progression in ability and whilst I understand the benefit of deadhanging it all feels a bit like being back at the gym (before I started climbing). I've briefly played on steep boards before and it still feels like you're climbing, albeit a rather basic style. I can work with that!
Surely you've answered your own question here?
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I guess I was hoping that some of you guys might have trained both ways (isolating each group vs. training everything together such as steep board work) and would have some insight into which method yields better results.
I've climbed on boards for the past 20 years. I am heavy and have weak fingers and tend to enjoy big moves between good holds. I have used a fingerboard consistently for the past 12 months. My fingers are stronger now than they've ever been. I use deadhanging as part of a varied and balanced training diet ;D
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It seems like I've answered my own question but I am willing to do things I'd rather not for the greater good.
I'd rather not waste my time and money on an engineering degree which doesn't make me any better at my job but it means I'll earn more money in the future... For example!
I did manage 9 consecutive FB sessions once and even that showed improvement but I'm guessing that was mainly recruitment, what with finger strength progress being a yearly thing rather than weekly...
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I can see the value in warming up on one before trying crimpy fingery probs.. But for my own climbing now it's not so much finger strength that holds me back - more shoulders/arms/core. Stuff that doesn't really get a workout from the BM.
After a decent BM session where I've tried hard, it's often my shoulders that are failing on the final set of repeaters along with my fingers, you also use a surprising amount of core stabilising yourself on the fingerboard when on smaller holds.
There's a big difference in climbing on crimps at places like Harmers where a lot of weight is on your feet, and you can do a lot with body position compared to on steeper ground (Trowbarrow for instance) where finger strength will be a lot more of a limiting factor.
True dat - and my lats often ache after Beastmakerage..
Though finger strength has oft been my limiting factor at Harmers but never at Trowbarrow...
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Well that's gone quite then?
I've heard its a 1000 pound a year to join
You get to climb with a bunch of miserable old bastards that are better surfers now then climbers and that's being generous.....test yourselves on splintered 20 year old problems that we all did in the nineties and to top it all you get to gobble moon off...Smiley face
is that included in the £1k fee?
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Yes - i can see a stamina element in fingerboarding translating into routes.. Sorry my personal vista only extends as far as bouldering..
Huh what? My point wasn't about routes, it was an example to show thay "A is not B therefore B is inferior in order to train for A" is not necessarily true
Also, the statement that your weak back 2 don't hold you back is a bit meaningless since there's no comparison- theyay well be holding you back, you just don't know it.
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Mix it up and work on your weaknesses...
If you find climbing a steel board hard, work on it. big moves between different types of holds keeping foot-holdsas small as poss.
If you find fingerboarding hard, work on that more. Repeaters and Max hangs in 4-week blocks work well.
If you dont feel you are working your shoulders/back/core when on your FB, lock out different arm positions (encores) and hold L-sits during your hangs.
My advise is not to worry about scales and other gagetry or what to do during your rests, it only diverts attention/time away from your workout. A good way of timing your hangs and rests is all you need. (BM App)
Get warmed up properly, get your workout done and get on with your evening!
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Yes - i can see a stamina element in fingerboarding translating into routes.. Sorry my personal vista only extends as far as bouldering..
Huh what? My point wasn't about routes, it was an example to show thay "A is not B therefore B is inferior in order to train for A" is not necessarily true
Also, the statement that your weak back 2 don't hold you back is a bit meaningless since there's no comparison- theyay well be holding you back, you just don't know it.
Yawn....
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My original question was regarding efficiency of finger strength training but in reality I need to work on general strength too (shoulders, core, etc) so I was hoping that steep board work would work all factors without the monotony involved with fingerboarding.
I guess I was hoping that some of you guys might have trained both ways (isolating each group vs. training everything together such as steep board work) and would have some insight into which method yields better results.
I really enjoy the movement of climbing but also enjoy the feeling of progression in ability and whilst I understand the benefit of deadhanging it all feels a bit like being back at the gym (before I started climbing). I've briefly played on steep boards before and it still feels like you're climbing, albeit a rather basic style. I can work with that!
4 weeks of strength training-both FB and Shoulder/core work, followed by 4 weeks of as hard as you can board training to apply the strength. Rest a week, rinse, repeat.
Yes, I've done both. I trained extensively on a board for a long time. Plateaued at 7C+ for about 10 years. changed and added FBing and Core/Shoulder/Pull Strength training and now am at 8A+ after 2 years, and aiming for 8B this year. Was on track before a finger injury in March(while climbing outside). Coming back strong though.
This really only work if you can committ yourself to at least a few cycles of this, makes the workouts hard enough, and also rest enough to recover. although that goes for almost any training :)
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I've heard its a 1000 pound a year to join
You get to climb with a bunch of miserable old bastards that are better surfers now then climbers and that's being generous.....test yourselves on splintered 20 year old problems that we all did in the nineties and to top it all you get to gobble moon off...Smiley face
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is that included in the £1k fee?
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Apparently
I agree with Dense Loner…. Lee of recent hair loss
Who remembers Smythe….. he declared one day that he was going to dead hang only, for one year straight… no bouldering. His goal after one year was to red point Jehovahkill 8b+ at the Tor.
Guess what.. one year later he went on said route and couldn't do any off the moves :clap2:
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Sounds good to me Sasquatch! Which style of fingerboarding were you doing? (Eva lopez stuff wasn't it?)
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Both Max Hangs and Repeaters, although I found the repeaters to take more recovery. As a working stiff, I really liked the Max hangs on season, as I would do hangs Tues/Thurs, and get outside hard bouldering on weekends.
Much like you I get bored if all I'm doing is training, especially just FBing. The payoff was so good though that I've learned to love it in the right doses. My goal now when purely training for bouldering is to get about 8 max hang sessions in over a 4 week period, along with some other core/shoulder/etc strength stuff and 3-4 hard bouldering sessions as well. If I need extra rest, skip a boulder session. Then do the 4 weeks of hard bouldering with 1 day a week of campusing as well.
I also found this works pretty well with the home life. The FB sessions are short and at home, so I get loads of stuff done around the house and with the family during that 4 weeks. Then during the 4 weeks of bouldering, I'm ahead on the house stuff, so not stressed about the honey do list. Then take 1 week really easy at the end of the 8 weeks and make up the big family stuff.
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What shoulder training did you do Sasq?
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Ring work and one arm hangs. I find hanging one arm off a bar and twisting myself both directions in control is really good for stabilizing my shoulder.
My STR workouts now are generally Deadlifts, Wtd pullups, one arm hangs, one leg ring pressups, ring dips, one arm ring planks and Bicep curls, plus a bit of eccentrics for my elbows. Ounce of prevention and all that.
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I really like the idea of a block of hangboard/strength training followed by a block of board/campus training. Seems pretty compatible with what is advocated in the Rock Climber's Training Manual for boulderers.
A couple of questions: Are you doing your supplemental strength workouts just during the 4 weeks of hangboarding, or constantly? For the one arm hangs/twists, are you keeping your shoulder engaged and arm slightly bent, or really hanging off of the joint.
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Keep in mind, this is my "on season" training, not my year round.
I only do the the STR stuf during the hang boarding weeks. During the board climbing / bouldering, you get plenty of body workout.
As far as the one arm stuff goes, be careful. I engage as much as I can through my core to my shoulder, but not my bicep. When you try it, I think you'll quite naturally feel where to engage. I generally do 3-5 twists to each side. Rotating as far as I can go in full control. This isn't about gaining strength or flexibility, so don't force it. It's about gaining stability, so control is key.