Is there anything more trite and tedious than climbers trying second-rate alternative-starts to problems they've already done just to tick an 8A? I think not.Climbers stamp collecting an entire sector/crag/boulder is probably worse. Unimaginative, myopic and will likely entail significant opportunity cost. I'm sure we can tell you what you should actually want to climb next if you want ;)
Mon - Remergence with tt, I'm at the point that I was happy to manage Hanging Rib :weakbench:
Is there anything more trite and tedious...Climbers stamp collecting an entire sector/crag/boulder is probably worse. Unimaginative, myopic and will likely entail significant opportunity cost.
Is there anything more trite and tedious than climbers trying second-rate alternative-starts to problems they've already done just to tick an 8A?
Is there anything more trite and tedious than climbers trying second-rate alternative-starts to problems they've already done just to tick an 8A? I think not.Climbers stamp collecting an entire sector/crag/boulder is probably worse. Unimaginative, myopic and will likely entail significant opportunity cost. I'm sure we can tell you what you should actually want to climb next if you want ;)
What is there if there isn’t stamp collecting? :spank:
Is there anything more trite and tedious than climbers trying second-rate alternative-starts to problems they've already done just to tick an 8A? I think not.Climbers stamp collecting an entire sector/crag/boulder is probably worse. Unimaginative, myopic and will likely entail significant opportunity cost. I'm sure we can tell you what you should actually want to climb next if you want ;)
What is there if there isn’t stamp collecting? :spank:
continual overreaching and prolonged failure is the alternative as far as I can tell. So much more fulfilling!
Generally feeling a bit tired and burnt out at the moment. I think I basically peaked far too early in the season (when it was still warm/wet), and then continued trying to train reasonably hard which has left me knackered, so despite having been able to get out plenty of times I've struggled to close the deal on almost everything I've tried. Frustrating. Decided to sack off any sort of training over the next three weeks and just try and get lots of sleep. Will still get out when I can but just aim to potter about and keep things moving.
My infrequent successes are entirely un-"noteworthy"! I dream of ticking a mildly diverting warm-up for someone capable of "noteworthy success".
First week of Lattice Programme which should hopefully target some weaknesses and putting it on here for first time making it very public.
First week of Lattice Programme which should hopefully target some weaknesses and putting it on here for first time making it very public.
Welcome to PC, nice one getting started.
Crikey that is a big week though!! Not a single bit of rest and strength work every day?! Bear in mind I'm in a total fugue state atm where picking up a weight seems like hard work but still...
My infrequent successes are entirely un-"noteworthy"! I dream of ticking a mildly diverting warm-up for someone capable of "noteworthy success".
James, heal up. If it's not improving quickly don't be afraid to get it checked again (ask bubbles his story if you're not aware of it already, his kind of experience is quite common).
Welcome to PC, nice one getting started.
Crikey that is a big week though!! Not a single bit of rest and strength work every day?! Bear in mind I'm in a total fugue state atm where picking up a weight seems like hard work but still...
Cheers guys, I don't know Bubbles' story. I assume its not good? Could walk a bit with crutches the morning so hopefully that's a good sign.
My infrequent successes are entirely un-"noteworthy"! I dream of ticking a mildly diverting warm-up for someone capable of "noteworthy success".
James, heal up. If it's not improving quickly don't be afraid to get it checked again (ask bubbles his story if you're not aware of it already, his kind of experience is quite common).
Cheers guys, I don't know Bubbles' story. I assume its not good? Could walk a bit with crutches the morning so hopefully that's a good sign.
Sitting on the ground with the initial pain all the way through my leg was worrying about how bad it was but thankfully after a few minutes of trying not to be sick the pain concentrated to just my ankle and a bit in my quad. With the aid of plenty of painkillers i was able to hop com hobble around and on the plus side I did manage to get a nice photo of G on Crescent Arete of the sun was setting.
If anyone has any advice or good exercises to do while injured they'd by much appreciated.
M.Tor. T Tor with Nick chilly... My training plan which I had proudly constructed was heavily criticised by an experienced coach which was demoralising. One of the recommendations was not climbing outside so much which I would find demotivating. Couple more Tor sessions lined up with Nick tomorrow and thursday.
M.Tor. T Tor with Nick chilly... My training plan which I had proudly constructed was heavily criticised by an experienced coach which was demoralising. One of the recommendations was not climbing outside so much which I would find demotivating. Couple more Tor sessions lined up with Nick tomorrow and thursday.
Simon, I do hope that this application to join the CC has not followed a period of Maoist self-criticism and the realisation that Oaken-days are disappearing behind you. That would be very grim, indeed.
Of course, I might get blackballed.
Of course, I might get blackballed.
I'll do what I can but failed miserably when I tried to do similar to Alan J.
I have started to feel a yearning for trad in my loins and started fantasising about hanging out Ynys Ettws in the summer as a base to go scrambling, trad climbing and bouldering.
I have started to feel a yearning for trad in my loins and started fantasising about hanging out Ynys Ettws in the summer as a base to go scrambling, trad climbing and bouldering.
<Shudder>
Four wheels good, Two wheels bad
I have started to feel a yearning for trad in my loins and started fantasising about hanging out Ynys Ettws in the summer as a base to go scrambling, trad climbing and bouldering.
That sounds good to me too but come on, one last big push at least. Sacrifice 3 months, get a training plan that means you can boulder outside once a week and train the remainder so you can say you gave yourself every chance of doing it.
He’d be better with one of these.<Shudder>
Four wheels good, Two wheels bad
Its the perfect sport for you Shark. Tiny incremental gains can be made via equipment purchases and a strong tailwind. :)
And you can call as many car drivers C*nts as you like.
I anyone has any advice or good exercises to do while injured they'd by much appreciated.
Hopefully keep the motivation up and get out on voyager as much as possible over then grit season. Nothing like a hard project to keep the motivation up.
quite a bit down form the spring's highpoint of 39kg.
quite a bit down form the spring's highpoint of 39kg.
James - out of interest, what size edge was this on and how much did you weigh at the time?
Guessing this was about when you smashed Zoo York out of the park (?) so interested as a benchmark.
I appreciate what you are saying and I have given the subject a lot of thought. Having been burnt in the past I don't share your level of faith in indoor training programmes to deliver outside or to a planned peak. I also think the many and varied benefits of turning up and trying hard outside are generally underestimated.
Psychologically training almost exclusively indoors would be demotivating and make me grumpier than I already am. I've skewed my life and worked towards having the freedom to climb on real rock as often as I want and it would be perverse to sacrifice that freedom now I have more time on my hands than ever
self fladulation
Hey Shark, just curious (not saying this is a good idea) but have you ever tried doing consistently less climbing / training. Just rocking up to the crag or wall and trying hard twice a week for example. Sort of putting climbing to the bottom of the pile but still being psyched to do your best? And using all that free time to chill 😬. I wonder if goal orientated training can spill over into self fladulation both mentally and physically that can’t be fun and ends up being a barrier.
self fladulation
flagellation?
Those who I see really reaching their potential in a sport live and breathe it. I reckon you can operate at, say 90% of max, by doing a lot less climbing. But if you're trying to break a grade in your 30th or 40th year of climbing, you probably need to do a lot of deadhanging, not chilling :lol:
I thought it might be a combination of self flagellation and self adulation!
self fladulation
flagellation?
self fladulation
flagellation?
Flatulation <3
Hey Shark, just curious (not saying this is a good idea) but have you ever tried doing consistently less climbing / training. Just rocking up to the crag or wall and trying hard twice a week for example. Sort of putting climbing to the bottom of the pile but still being psyched to do your best? And using all that free time to chill 😬. I wonder if goal orientated training can spill over into self fladulation both mentally and physically that can’t be fun and ends up being a barrier.
A mate of mine once described climbing as a "ball and chain". Once it feels like that it's definitely time to re-evaluate! Having another interest/pastime can be good for pysche, but I doubt it's good for your top-end performance. Those who I see really reaching their potential in a sport live and breathe it. I reckon you can operate at, say 90% of max, by doing a lot less climbing. But if you're trying to break a grade in your 30th or 40th year of climbing, you probably need to do a lot of deadhanging, not chilling :lol:
If only someone would tell all those Olympic athletes who push themselves to the point of being sick day-in-day-out. I'm sure they'd be glad of a good rest.
If only someone would tell all those Olympic athletes who push themselves to the point of being sick day-in-day-out. I'm sure they'd be glad of a good rest.
Most of us aren't youngsters pushing the limits of human ability though!
I went from sport 7a to 8a+ just climbing as hard as I could every weekend, no midweek action at all. The last couple of years, I've been finger-boarding and using a woodie midweek. I feel that activity has been worthwhile for a sense of satisfaction and as a stress reliever, but it hasn't massively increased my accomplishments: gone from 8a+ to 8a+/b'ish, which well might have happened under my old regime. And, into the bargain, I seem to spend far more time worrying about niggling various musculo-skeletal issues!
I am beginning to suspect that for the more mature chap, whose level is pretty much established, not feeling worn-down and avoiding injury is more important than marginal gains from training: save yourself for the weekend and don't give yourself excuses about being tired or having sore skin from training .
Wish it worked like that Dan!
What would Ben Moon do?
What would Ben Moon do?
Talk about Hubble? (Sorry Ben 🙄)
What would Ben Moon do?
Talk about Hubble? (Sorry Ben 🙄)
You’re always slagging off Hubble. Stop Hating on the Geez
Climb more or train more? Different people have success with both routes of course.
Climb more or train more? Different people have success with both routes of course.
Shark, out of interest, when was the last time you climbed an 8th grade sport route?
Were I in Simon's position I think I'd do something (very roughly) like this
Sat - outdoors* or indoor boulder** (possibly following a hangs warm up?)
Sun - Brief max hangs followed by outdoors*. Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap
Tues - outdoors* or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?
Thurs - Training day. am: Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)
* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder allowed per season maybe?
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.
That's still a load of outdoor climbing. On weeks where it rains maybe change one of the bouldering sessions to 1-arm max hang work - so most weeks in the winter you'll get at least 2 hangs sessions in + 2 boulder sessions
Were I in Simon's position I think I'd do something (very roughly) like this
Sat - outdoors* or indoor boulder** (possibly following a hangs warm up?)
Sun - Brief max hangs followed by outdoors*. Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap
Tues - outdoors* or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?
Thurs - Training day. am: Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)
* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder allowed per season maybe?
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.
That's still a load of outdoor climbing. On weeks where it rains maybe change one of the bouldering sessions to 1-arm max hang work - so most weeks in the winter you'll get at least 2 hangs sessions in + 2 boulder sessions
Tweaking it a bit would this pass muster?
Sun - Training day. am: FB warm up A few goes on two hard Oak moves on board Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)
Tues – Tor working/redpointing a short route on right side Followed by sections of Bens Roof.
Weds - Brief max hangs followed by bouldering at Anston or Grit * Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap
Fri - Tor working/redpointing a short route on right side Followed by stamina laps on Sardine / Tin Of. Max Hangs to finish or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?
* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder or 6 sessions on a route allowed per season maybe?
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.
Shark, out of interest, when was the last time you climbed an 8th grade sport route?
20102
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.php?id=9478&sort=g&country=0&crag=0&gradetype=3&partner=0&year=0&season=0&nresults=25&pg=1
Edited to get rid of fake news.
When you train and do "Oak moves" on a board, Simon, do you train with other climbers who are operating at Oak standard or above? I find that if you climb on your own on a board you could easily fall into a trap of thinking you were reasonably strong. It's only when you see other people climbing on them that you realise how weak you actually are. You should arrange to come and try Austrian Mock on the Leeds Depot 50 board. Similarly, if you actually go out and put some mileage into some 7c+ - 8a climbs then you'll get a feel for how good you actually are (and it'll be fun). If all you have to benchmark yourself against is years of not getting up the Oak you don't really have a meaningful perspective on your own performance.
(and it'll be fun).
Have you done Caviar Simon? Quite similar in style and a shade easier
Doesn’t stay wet as long as many people think - and since the work on the hydro plant below the weir the ground has been dry for much longer too. I’ve worked it in Nov and Feb.
The start isn’t fingery (a little) more shoulders and ALOT of core (for me anyway). It’s deceptivley overhanging.
Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.
Yeah I think it is reasonably similar, gently overhanging technical limestone climbing, much closer than the cornice anyway
- you'll run out of rhs tor routes fast. Wild in me... then what?
Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.
- you'll run out of rhs tor routes fast. Wild in me... then what?
I thought Little Boots, Out of My Boots and Ring of Fire would be decent candidates. Especially Ring of Fire, low crux then pumpy traversing finish is a bit Oaky?
Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.
Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.
In the same way I sympathise with Sisyphus; purely at an existential level.
It’s like watching a bunch of clever people be intentionally obtuse.
*Note: "Baseline" is not bodyweight. It is whatever amount of resistance results in failure at the end of sixth rep of the second set.
Set the baseline so that you just fail at the last hang of the second set. For clarity this sometimes means that baseline involves some assistance.
Eg
Set 1. 7 hangs @ baseline. Complete ok
Set 2. 6 hangs @ baseline +10lbs
Fail (just) in hang 6
Set 3. 5 hangs @ baseline +20lbs
Really hard.
If you complete set 2 easily then increase the baseline weight. Simples.
Although this is what the Anderson Bros recommend I tweak it slightly and set baseline so I fail on set 3. This makes my hangs less intense, but I do a lot (7 grips). Works for me.
Others do less (I.e only two sets) so their session is less volume but more intense.
Given your goal of a short PE route id be tempted to start with the routine as described in the book.
For what it’s worth Shark I think this is the way forward for you. One session of this a week every week
...short max hangs sessions during the week (6 x 12-15 sec strict half crimp with 3 mins rest between hangs)
Quote...short max hangs sessions during the week (6 x 12-15 sec strict half crimp with 3 mins rest between hangs)
Isn't this (12-15s) long for max hangs?
I'm not surprised to see you thinking about ways to turn strength training into endurance training.
Isn't this (12-15s) long for max hangs?
Dave Mason recommends 12 secs in his video and in conversation suggested up to 15secs and intuitively I agree.
I'm not surprised to see you thinking about ways to turn strength training into endurance training.
Busted
Isn't this (12-15s) long for max hangs?
Dave Mason recommends 12 secs in his video and in conversation suggested up to 15secs and intuitively I agree.
The 12 secs in the video is to work out what roughly 85% max is for a 10 sec hang, you test for 12 but hangs are for 10.
I hit a bit of a plateau with two arm weighted hangs but have seen good progress switching to small hold max hangs (micros) and one arm assisted hangs.
Given the range of holds the resistance is likely to vary for me from 20kgs on the pinches to 80kgs. The added weight should surely therefore be a % of baseline rather than a fixed 10lbs
Sorry to hijack here, but interested in this Anderson stuff. I'm mainly training for stiff at Ansteys so similar demand to the oak I guess. So I am get my head around energy systems planning, is this an cap? Lots of people seem to rate doing a sesh a week of it, but unsure what combine it with. A bouldering sesh, some max hangs, and an aerobic sesh? Or does it negate the need for max hangs? I'm pretty keen on the idea of non linear periods.
Advice appreciated.
Sorry to hijack here, but interested in this Anderson stuff. I'm mainly training for stiff at Ansteys so similar demand to the oak I guess. So I am get my head around energy systems planning, is this an cap? Lots of people seem to rate doing a sesh a week of it, but unsure what combine it with. A bouldering sesh, some max hangs, and an aerobic sesh? Or does it negate the need for max hangs? I'm pretty keen on the idea of non linear periods.
Advice appreciated.
The Andersons are heavily into periodisation. They live a long way from any climbing and build up to peaking on trips so that suits them well.
Sorry to hijack her... does it negate the need for max hangs? I'm pretty keen on the idea of non linear periods.
Advice appreciated.
As I understand it, nothing negates the need for max hangs.
As I understand it, nothing negates the need for max hangs.
is this available as a t-shirt option?
Quote from: lagerstarfish link=topic=29754.msg575887#msg575887 d5ate=1546029425As I understand it, nothing negates the need for max hangs.
is this available as a t-shirt option?
:lol: :clap2:
And on the side:
”Don’t use for every stupid thing an excuse. There is not too short, too tall, too heavy, too warm, too wet, too humid. There is just one excuse: too weak.” (https://www.8a.nu/articles/alexander-megos-8934)
Quote from: lagerstarfish link=topic=29754.msg575887#msg575887 d5ate=1546029425As I understand it, nothing negates the need for max hangs.
is this available as a t-shirt option?
:lol: :clap2:
And on the back:
"You can argue all you want about technique and friction and the subtleties of climbing on grit or sandstone or whatever; but personally, for me to do the next hard problem, it really comes down to strength and, you know, how hard I can pull, I'm afraid." Ben Moon
And on the side:
”Don’t use for every stupid thing an excuse. There is not too short, too tall, too heavy, too warm, too wet, too humid. There is just one excuse: too weak.” (https://www.8a.nu/articles/alexander-megos-8934)
Bollocks.
And on the side:
”Don’t use for every stupid thing an excuse. There is not too short, too tall, too heavy, too warm, too wet, too humid. There is just one excuse: too weak.” (https://www.8a.nu/articles/alexander-megos-8934)