Anyway the things which made me wince in the video:
-the whole premise of charging around the plantation in a lame challenge context
-challenging other people/youtubers to do the same
-brushing vigorously (at damp rock for extra squirm factor) and filming it
-making the video on a wettish day, saying the rock's wet, doing it anyway
-etc.
Anyway the things which made me wince in the video:
-the whole premise of charging around the plantation in a lame challenge context
-challenging other people/youtubers to do the same
-brushing vigorously (at damp rock for extra squirm factor) and filming it
-making the video on a wettish day, saying the rock's wet, doing it anyway
-etc.
-heels on the Green Traverse
- Dragging the pads all over the place.
- At one point, only cleaning one shoe saying he only needs the one, then using the dirty wet one anyway...
It all seems rather poorly thought out. I blame youtube for hiding dislikes.
Anyway the things which made me wince in the video:
-the whole premise of charging around the plantation in a lame challenge context
-challenging other people/youtubers to do the same
...
Also master's edge - just leave it the fuck alone now.
Video appears to have been taken down now, just as I was getting ready to see all the fuss.
Firstly, would like to point out I really respect Pete as a climber (and as a person from the handful of times I've met him) and this isn't meant as a personal criticism.
Ah shit, I just found my pitchfork at the back of the shed, what am I meant to do with these flaming torches now?
Anyway the things which made me wince in the video:
-the whole premise of charging around the plantation in a lame challenge context
-challenging other people/youtubers to do the same
...
Also master's edge - just leave it the fuck alone now.
It's an interesting pont, but at the same time I feel like as more experienced climbers we can be a bit hypocritical when it comes to heavy usage of particular venues. I guess there's plenty of sheffield based climbers on here who enjoy a good solo circuit up on stanage (for the nth time), or a quick hit to plantation.
QuoteFirstly, would like to point out I really respect Pete as a climber (and as a person from the handful of times I've met him) and this isn't meant as a personal criticism.
Pete who?
Anyway the things which made me wince in the video:
-the whole premise of charging around the plantation in a lame challenge context
-challenging other people/youtubers to do the same
...
Also master's edge - just leave it the fuck alone now.
It's an interesting pont, but at the same time I feel like as more experienced climbers we can be a bit hypocritical when it comes to heavy usage of particular venues. I guess there's plenty of sheffield based climbers on here who enjoy a good solo circuit up on stanage (for the nth time), or a quick hit to plantation.
far less impactful to the rock than a sieging aspirant trying to push their grade.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but...
I notice that no one has said anything about the tick marks on Ryuichi's new problem, amazing though it is.
This is a video I am looking forward to watching. Good luck Sam.
Right - this weekend I'll be off to make a movie of me doing all pete liveseys peak routes, in a day, one handed, wearing resoled lasers, but unicycling between them all.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but...
I notice that no one has said anything about the tick marks on Ryuichi's new problem, amazing though it is.
I think there is a general conflation of using tick marks and leaving tick marks.
In my view the former is fine, if frequently ugly and overdone. The latter is when it becomes litter and objectionable.
You could argue that showing videos depicting ticks without footage of their removal at the end of the session encourages the inexperienced to use then leave ticks. Personally I'm happy enough not to see the 'brush off' footage as mandatory on every video (now and again is often enough) as it would quickly get old, tokenistic, and patronising.
I think it's a stretch to expect someone doing possibly the hardest pair of low percentage accuracy moves in the world, without something which helps their execution, something which of itself is harmless to the rock, or other people's enjoyment of it.
I think as community we are big enough to educate sensible, minimal use, rather than demand the baby is thrown out with the bathwater in all and every circumstance.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but...
I notice that no one has said anything about the tick marks on Ryuichi's new problem, amazing though it is.
hello folks
As someone who has lived and grown up in the Peak i have always had (and will always have) full respect for the local environment/rock/ethics and put these before my own climbing. The challenge was intended to just be a bit of fun, like some of the other Grit challenges we have (Staffordshire Nose for example), but something other people could complete wherever they were in the world.
There was some on/off dampness that morning for the first half an hour of climbing that i did and after reading the comments here I can understand peoples concerns regarding damp rock, wet shoes, chalking a foothold, etc. Considering this I have since removed the video. Look forward to seeing you all out on the crags, cheers :)
Why do we make such a stink about tick marks under the pretence that it's to "leave no trace"?
far less impactful to the rock than a sieging aspirant trying to push their grade.NSFW :
far less impactful to the rock than a sieging aspirant trying to push their grade.NSFW :
Knew someone would bite :lol:
The thing is though I climbed 2 grades harder 4 years ago!
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
far less impactful to the rock than a sieging aspirant trying to push their grade.NSFW :
Knew someone would bite :lol:
The thing is though I climbed 2 grades harder 4 years ago!
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Why do we make such a stink about tick marks under the pretence that it's to "leave no trace"?
Surely the distinction is that tick marks (particularly big ones) are avoidable chalk deposits? The ideal is to use as little as possible so leaving lines that mark how to climb is obviously wack. Pretty sure no-one who frowns on tick marks thinks the rocks would be chalk-free without them.
hello folks
As someone who has lived and grown up in the Peak i have always had (and will always have) full respect for the local environment/rock/ethics and put these before my own climbing. The challenge was intended to just be a bit of fun, like some of the other Grit challenges we have (Staffordshire Nose for example), but something other people could complete wherever they were in the world.
There was some on/off dampness that morning for the first half an hour of climbing that i did and after reading the comments here I can understand peoples concerns regarding damp rock, wet shoes, chalking a foothold, etc. Considering this I have since removed the video. Look forward to seeing you all out on the crags, cheers :)
Nice one for posting up Pete. :thumbsup:
This may be an unpopular opinion, but...
I notice that no one has said anything about the tick marks on Ryuichi's new problem, amazing though it is.
etc
I think as community we are big enough to educate sensible, minimal use, rather than demand the baby is thrown out with the bathwater in all and every circumstance.
3rd Rock mentioned in the vid description...
Fuck, it seems I'm now a victim of youtube's recommendation algorithms optimising for outrage as far as climbing videos are concerned. It knows. Every visit guaranteed to make life more miserable, can't not click to watch, probably no escape....
Am I losing it or was there a time in relatively recent history when you'd get crucified (and you'd know and expect to get crucified and not just by Fiend) for uploading a video like this:
https://youtu.be/CqLM3TP2xP4?t=405
Pious whinging over, what's the solution(s)? Above channel I think will be monetised (only just) and Epic TV and 3rd Rock mentioned in the vid description... Time to somehow establish (incredibly boring, likely patronising) norms and protocol where any financially incentivised self or brand promotional videos featuring outdoor climbing have to first encourage sound ethics and good behaviour? A climbing youtube equivalent to footballers taking the knee? Maybe that could help shift the cultural climate to a point where a queue of punters scrabbling and kicking the fuck out of End of the Affair isn't generally regarded as ok. Let alone filming and uploading it. Any other ideas? Being a miserable git complaining on climbing fora? Seemed to work last time but potentially akin to trying to bail out the titantic with a thimble if the cultural trajectory and inertia isn't impacted/addressed.
Or maybe it's a lost cause and time to just let it go? 'Allow' people to do what they want and accept that the odd classic is going to get trashed by the unimaginative and move on...
Fuck, it seems I'm now a victim of youtube's recommendation algorithms optimising for outrage as far as climbing videos are concerned. It knows. Every visit guaranteed to make life more miserable, can't not click to watch, probably no escape....
Am I losing it or was there a time in relatively recent history when you'd get crucified (and you'd know and expect to get crucified and not just by Fiend) for uploading a video like this:
https://youtu.be/CqLM3TP2xP4?t=405
Pious whinging over, what's the solution(s)? Above channel I think will be monetised (only just) and Epic TV and 3rd Rock mentioned in the vid description... Time to somehow establish (incredibly boring, likely patronising) norms and protocol where any financially incentivised self or brand promotional videos featuring outdoor climbing have to first encourage sound ethics and good behaviour? A climbing youtube equivalent to footballers taking the knee? Maybe that could help shift the cultural climate to a point where a queue of punters scrabbling and kicking the fuck out of End of the Affair isn't generally regarded as ok. Let alone filming and uploading it. Any other ideas? Being a miserable git complaining on climbing fora? Seemed to work last time but potentially akin to trying to bail out the titantic with a thimble if the cultural trajectory and inertia isn't impacted/addressed.
Or maybe it's a lost cause and time to just let it go? 'Allow' people to do what they want and accept that the odd classic is going to get trashed by the unimaginative and move on...
Really struggling to understand what the problem is with anything in that video.
Okay they are clearly not going to be leading End of the Affair any time soon but why should that stop them top roping it?
Otherwise they've just gone climbing on a couple of beautiful days, and produced a very boring video about it.
I agree with Bradders here. Sadly yes it may lead to faster erosion and maybe more educating on that front and could change attitude to trying stuff if its way above your lead level. But, we don't own the rock and these guys were having fun and can do that all day everyday on all the classics at Curbar should they wish.
Just out of genuine curiosity, how do you view things like the Wide Boyz doing their videos messing around on master's edge? Because I suppose the makers of that vid could point to those videos saying "well this is what the locals get up to, is what we're doing any worse?"
(I personally don't have an issue with either for the record, I'm just asking)
Just out of genuine curiosity, how do you view things like the Wide Boyz doing their videos messing around on master's edge? Because I suppose the makers of that vid could point to those videos saying "well this is what the locals get up to, is what we're doing any worse?"
(I personally don't have an issue with either for the record, I'm just asking)
Apposite example. As per the last bit of text of my first post of this thread, I think they should leave it well alone. Primarily for exactly the reason you highlight.
I wonder how many of those who think it’s alright, would feel the same. If said bunch of numbties had a rope down the route they were hoping to red point at Malham or Kilnsey and were busy trashing it.
It’s what they are doing with their feet. They don’t seem able to weight them properly so they pop which will wear the surface off. Ok if it’s just them but if others feel it’s ok having seen the video.
It could get trashed.
It’s what they are doing with their feet. They don’t seem able to weight them properly so they pop which will wear the surface off. Ok if it’s just them but if others feel it’s ok having seen the video.
It could get trashed.
It’s what they are doing with their feet. They don’t seem able to weight them properly so they pop which will wear the surface off. Ok if it’s just them but if others feel it’s ok having seen the video.
It could get trashed.
This feels a little like "you can only climb on it if you're good" which seems somewhat arbitrary.
It’s what they are doing with their feet. They don’t seem able to weight them properly so they pop which will wear the surface off. Ok if it’s just them but if others feel it’s ok having seen the video.
It could get trashed.
This feels a little like "you can only climb on it if you're good" which seems somewhat arbitrary.
I guess it's worth asking a question like "how would I feel if I broke a hold on the route?".
For me, I would only want to top rope a route like End of the Affair if I were seriously considering a headpoint ascent. Classic routes like EotA are a limited resource (a fundamentally special thing to many people due to the history & nature of the route) and they will suffer if they see too much attention.
Moreoever, I think if you are seeking to both publicize/monetize these things then you have some obligation to consider the impact of your content.
It’s what they are doing with their feet. They don’t seem able to weight them properly so they pop which will wear the surface off. Ok if it’s just them but if others feel it’s ok having seen the video.
It could get trashed.
This feels a little like "you can only climb on it if you're good" which seems somewhat arbitrary.
I guess it's worth asking a question like "how would I feel if I broke a hold on the route?".
For me, I would only want to top rope a route like End of the Affair if I were seriously considering a headpoint ascent. Classic routes like EotA are a limited resource (a fundamentally special thing to many people due to the history & nature of the route) and they will suffer if they see too much attention.
Moreoever, I think if you are seeking to both publicize/monetize these things then you have some obligation to consider the impact of your content.
or maybe just the broader malaise of incentives to promote content that's titled things like 'VS to E8 in a weekend!"
Tbh I'd say that climbing has become much more popular but actually that's not really the issue (99% of that popularity explosion is indoors anyway), the issue is that there are now more incentives to put up videos like that than before.As one of the old guard I have never chipped a hold and I pretty sure none of my mates did either. To be honest you need to fuck right off with comments like that.
I would say that the "old guard" loved to chip routes/fuck about on rock/etc but they didn't make YouTube videos about it and there was also less of an incentive to maybe diverge from the accepted ethics in order to drive engagement.
The issue is that there are now more incentives to put up videos like that than before.
I would say that the "old guard" loved to chip routes/fuck about on rock/etc
I agree with Wellsy though that there should not be any associated obligation to lead. If you have the ability to climb it reasonably well on a top-rope with no intention of leading, that's also totally fine.
What, are the "old guard" some sort of bastion of ethical purity then? We all know routes were chipped / created. Redhead, Livesey, various French climbers. No need to take it so personally webbo. I would be willing to bet a lot more chipping went on in the 80s than does now. :worms:
What, are the "old guard" some sort of bastion of ethical purity then? We all know routes were chipped / created. Redhead, Livesey, various French climbers. No need to take it so personally webbo. I would be willing to bet a lot more chipping went on in the 80s than does now. :worms:Two names and some French climbers. How does that equate to the old guard chipping every thing. Come what did we chip.
Tbh I'd say that climbing has become much more popular but actually that's not really the issue (99% of that popularity explosion is indoors anyway), the issue is that there are now more incentives to put up videos like that than before.As one of the old guard I have never chipped a hold and I pretty sure none of my mates did either. To be honest you need to fuck right off with comments like that.
I would say that the "old guard" loved to chip routes/fuck about on rock/etc but they didn't make YouTube videos about it and there was also less of an incentive to maybe diverge from the accepted ethics in order to drive engagement.
What, are the "old guard" some sort of bastion of ethical purity then? We all know routes were chipped / created. Redhead, Livesey, various French climbers. No need to take it so personally webbo. I would be willing to bet a lot more chipping went on in the 80s than does now. :worms:Two names and some French climbers. How does that equate to the old guard chipping every thing. Come what did we chip.
I agree with Wellsy though that there should not be any associated obligation to lead. If you have the ability to climb it reasonably well on a top-rope with no intention of leading, that's also totally fine.
However I'd be more comfortable with the cultural sentiment on it being more 'Ok, if you're careful and you really want to' tather than 'totally fine'.
LIVE AND LET LIVEWell yeah, that's the very thing you're trying to optimise for when you talk about a rawlsian equal liberty princi-zzzzzzzzz Christ just kill me now
LIVE AND LET LIVEWell yeah, that's the very thing you're trying to optimise for when you talk about a rawlsian equal liberty princi-zzzzzzzzz Christ just kill me now
“ You’ll be first against the wall come the revolution “LIVE AND LET LIVEWell yeah, that's the very thing you're trying to optimise for when you talk about a rawlsian equal liberty princi-zzzzzzzzz Christ just kill me now
So many big words. What would Orwell say.
Am I losing it or was there a time in relatively recent history when you'd get crucified (and you'd know and expect to get crucified and not just by Fiend):-\