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91
chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by petejh on March 26, 2024, 11:43:09 am »
Yep totally. In some ways it operates as market of supply and demand. Where the route developers are suppliers and other climbers not involved in route development are the demand.

The incentives for suppliers are that they get to enjoy the reward (mostly in internal satisfaction) of getting an FA and seeing it enjoyed by others. Take away this reward too often and the motivation for developers to develop - as in actually do the donkey work usually required to make a good sport route, not just the climbing which we all know any wad can do easily - goes away. If enough developers think it isn't worth developing stuff that's hard (for them), then the wads would have to do the donkey work every time they wanted something hard to climb. Which most wads are, to put it undiplomatically, shit at and too lazy to do - or more diplomatically because of the opportunity cost of not climbing other cool stuff.

92
chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by Bonjoy on March 26, 2024, 11:35:29 am »
It's common to hear (especially on podcasts) the very best boulderers arguing that everything should be an open project. This strikes me as really not the egalitarian ideal it tends to get justified as. Obviously ~8C climbers would like all lines to be  open projects, so they can swan around hoovering up everything in their wake, without ever having to waste training days going out looking and prepping new lines themselves. Why would they not think this is a fantastic idea?
In the long run there is an opportunity cost to spending lots of days looking and prepping, and a benefit to the climbing community. Arguing against the developer having some short grace period to try the project is pretty mercenary I think. It also leads to developers sitting for years on undocumented new venues, rather than sharing early.

I agree Pete re trad projects.
93
news / Re: significant repeats
« Last post by edshakey on March 26, 2024, 11:33:19 am »
Seb Berthe has climbed Bon Voyage

Quote
Incredibly happy and proud to have climbed Bon Voyage, 9a trad (E12) 🤯🥳🥰 third ascent after James Pearson and @adam.ondra !

I first tried Bon Voyage in April 2023 for half an hour after my flash ascent of “Le Voyage” and I immediately fell in love with the route, and decided it would be one of my main goals for 2024.
The notion that on this wall, a route could be freeclimbed on gear, is akin to a magic trick 🧙‍♂️ A big congratulations to the magician James  (@onceuponaclimb), for having the vision and perseverance to see through his "Bon Voyage" till the end!

I spent more or less 8 sessions in total on the route and this was definitely an ups and downs process... I truly enjoyed it and had to try really hard to make it happen ! More info to come soon about the whole story!

📷 from @solinekentzel 🙏😘

All the attempts and the send were filmed and a fullspecial movie of the process is in preparation 🎥🎬🎞 stay tuned!

Thanks to all those who helped and support me with this process: Soline,  @jeanelielugon @miquelmathieu (aka Michmich), James, Miguel, my parents Rico and Coco, Magali and Gilles, @antonin.rhodes , @taylormadeholds , @francocookson , @jacopolarcher ,Lionel , and all the others… Thank you! 🥰
 

Did I beat remus this time??  :lol:
94
news / Re: significant repeats
« Last post by crimpinainteasy on March 26, 2024, 11:28:46 am »
Someone needs to fly Tomoa out to burden. I reckon he would piss it with the new method.
95
news / Re: significant repeats
« Last post by AndyP on March 26, 2024, 11:28:07 am »
Someone on Reddit commented that Nalle worked with beta very much like this for years before changing beta, and that he judged the two beats to be similar in difficulty but with the "standard" beta being less luck dependent.
96
chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by petejh on March 26, 2024, 11:20:20 am »
I think the etiquette is different for boulders versus routes. Different again within routes, for sport versus trad. It would be a bit of a nonsense to try to suggest a cover-all etiquette for all of bouldering/sport routes/trad routes (I don't think anyone's trying to do that here, unless you are Stone?).

One of the biggest influences should be 'how many other routes/problems (or potential new routes/problems) exist at location x?'. And how many people are climbing at location x?

This massively influences the impact a closed project has on what a venue has to offer*.

Example A: closed bolted route project on a cliff with 100 other routes (and 100 other potential new routes remaining), where not many people climb.
Example B: closed bolted route project on a cliff with 10 other routes (and no other potential new routes left), where a lot of people climb.
Example C: closed boulder in example A.
Example D: closed boulder in example B.

I suppose a general rule of 1- 2 years makes it simple to understand. But doesn't take any account of circumstances. I think longer than this is definitely reasonable in example A, but probably not in example B.


*A classic case of this was the closed extension to Grand Canyon in Devil's Gorge - a popular venue, with only around 10 other decent routes to go at, and hardly any other new routes to do except Aly's link-ups and extensions (which are great btw).
** Trad: for some reason doesn't seem right to expect any closed projects because trad is supposed be pure and unmuddied by work to prepare it. Even if most of us know this is bullshit.
97
bouldering / Re: Yorkshire Open Projects
« Last post by Will Hunt on March 26, 2024, 11:12:37 am »
Just to the right of the eastern arete of Barrel Buttress at Attermire is a nice vertical flake-line. It's obviously been looked at before because the starting footholds have been brushed. It may even have been climbed but not recorded. It's probably mid-upper 6s. The landing isn't too bad but make sure you pad it properly and don't punt the finishing moves! A belay can be arranged at the top with an assortment of cams, wires and offsets.
98
I've done a deliberate controlled landing near them before to make the point. Most of the instructors / floor walkers seem reluctant to intervene.
99
chuffing / Re: closed project etiquette
« Last post by Bonjoy on March 26, 2024, 10:30:54 am »
Is this Triangulation?
I wasn't the first to spot the line. There were signs of it having been cleaned on a rope by others before me. I then trimmed some branches and did half a job digging a flat landing. Was happy to see Liam climb it. I probably wouldn't have got back to try in any time soon.
Likewise with the other one you might be meaning. It's already a noted project online, the landing work wasn't epic and it's too far away and too hard for me to do quickly. I.e. ticks all the boxes for being an open project. Though I didn't go out of my way to advertise it's existence/status for obvious reasons.

As I've said on previous threads, my view is that it's (as the thread title says) a matter of etiquette, there is no rule saying a person who preps a boulder has soul rights to try it. However, the more vision, effort, time and expense has gone into something the more grace should* I think be afforded the developer to have a go. Any longer than a year** seems like a bit of a pisstake to me though, especially if the line is obvious. A few dry days though isn't too much to ask though if it's been an epic effort, or a courtesy message to ask if it's okay.

*That's 'should' in the sense of being decent and considerate. It's like farting in a checkout queue - you aren't breaking any rules or laws but it's a pretty obnoxious thing to do and will rightly earn you some stern looks.
** Caveats may apply where something is devilishly hard to find in condition.

PS - Ben, if you read this, I should have been more gracious about that sitter proj on Sunday. Normally I'd like to think I'd be less proprietary about something like that. Was just frustrated and sick of being weak due to injured fingers.
100
news / Re: significant repeats
« Last post by Dingdong on March 26, 2024, 10:12:27 am »
Damn, does that mean the original method is now Big Grades for Bad Beta?

Will tried the heel for a couple sessions and didn’t find it easier so not necessarily
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