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places to visit => indoor walls => competitions => Topic started by: Doug on January 22, 2018, 06:37:45 pm

Title: IFSC 2018
Post by: Doug on January 22, 2018, 06:37:45 pm
2018 IFSC Bouldering World Cup provisional calendar:
Day     Date         Venue     Country   
Friday  14 Apr 2018  Meiringen Switzerland
Saturday  22 Apr 2018  Moscow Russia
Saturday  06 May 2018  Chongqing China
Saturday  13 May 2018  Tai'an China
Saturday  03 Jun 2018  Hachioji, Tokyo Japan
Friday  09 Jun 2018  Vail USA! USA! USA!
Friday  18 Aug 2018  Munich Germany


In addition there's:
Day  Date  Event  Venue  Country
Saturday  11 Mar 2018  CWIF  Sheffield UK
Saturday  11 Mar 2018  Asia Cup  Hong Kong Hong Kong
Saturday  18 Mar 2018  Studio Bloc Masters 202018  Pfungstadt Germany
Saturday  08 Apr 2018  FISE World Series  Hiroshima Japan
Saturday  20 May 2018  Rock Ljubljana 202018  Ljubljana Slovenia
Saturday  16 Sep 2018  IFSC World Championships   Innsbruck Austria
Friday  22 Sep 2018  Adidas Rockstars  Stuttgart Germany

Will Shauna recover from another finger injury to match Sandrine Levet and Anna Stöhr's achievements by being bouldering WC champion for three consecutive years?

Will Jongchon Chon hold on to his crown?

What young guns will break on to the scene, and will everyone enter in to more lead comps as Olympic training?

Place your bets.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on March 12, 2018, 07:00:50 am
What is all this "zone" bollocks? What was wrong with "bonus"?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on March 12, 2018, 09:24:36 am
Also zone/bonus total is worth more than top attempts.
Which I can kind of understand; Climnber A with 3T 4B beats Climber B with 3T 3B even though B flashed all theirs where A seiged.
Makes the bonus/zone worth more - though will need some more thoughtful route-setting, as often the bonus and the top get done together.

Still want 4+ back though...
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on March 12, 2018, 09:32:30 am
2018 IFSC Bouldering World Cup provisional calendar:
Day     Date         Venue     Country   
Friday  14 Apr 2018  Meiringen Switzerland
Saturday  22 Apr 2018  Moscow Russia
Saturday  06 May 2018  Chongqing China
Saturday  13 May 2018  Tai'an China
Saturday  03 Jun 2018  Hachioji, Tokyo Japan
Friday  09 Jun 2018  Vail USA! USA! USA!
Friday  18 Aug 2018  Munich Germany


In addition there's:
Day  Date  Event  Venue  Country
Saturday  11 Mar 2018  CWIF  Sheffield UK
Saturday  11 Mar 2018  Asia Cup  Hong Kong Hong Kong
Saturday  18 Mar 2018  Studio Bloc Masters 202018  Pfungstadt Germany
Saturday  08 Apr 2018  FISE World Series  Hiroshima Japan
Saturday  20 May 2018  Rock Ljubljana 202018  Ljubljana Slovenia
Saturday  16 Sep 2018  IFSC World Championships   Innsbruck Austria
Friday  22 Sep 2018  Adidas Rockstars  Stuttgart Germany

Yours Days/Dates are all out by one ;)
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on March 12, 2018, 08:28:16 pm
Also zone/bonus total is worth more than top attempts.
Which I can kind of understand; Climnber A with 3T 4B beats Climber B with 3T 3B even though B flashed all theirs where A seiged.
Makes the bonus/zone worth more - though will need some more thoughtful route-setting, as often the bonus and the top get done together.

Still want 4+ back though...

Will be interesting to see how this turns out. I've often felt like bonuses should come before attempts on tops.

Agree on the 4+
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on March 12, 2018, 09:51:37 pm
Agree on agreeing on the 4+

Still hyped for some serious competition viewing over gin / coffee depending when.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on March 23, 2018, 11:49:42 am
What is all this "zone" bollocks? What was wrong with "bonus"?

Thinking about it, it's actually more accurate... As "bonus" tends to imply something extra, which is worth more, so they got the top "and the bonus" sounds better than just getting the top - which it technically was, but 90% of the time you had to get the bonus to get the top so for new viewers *cough Olympic viewers* it makes more sense.

Not sure why "zone" though... Think it's always been called this in the American comps?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on March 28, 2018, 09:24:25 am
Meiringen Starter List up (though not finalised yet).

http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!type=starters&comp=7128

Great to see Pooch entering.
Megos and Jan which is cool. No Rustam though.

A stronger/larger US team than normal? Olympics momentum building do you think?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Coops_13 on March 28, 2018, 10:27:30 am
Meiringen Starter List up (though not finalised yet).

http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!type=starters&comp=7128

Great to see Pooch entering.
Megos and Jan which is cool. No Rustam though.

A stronger/larger US team than normal? Olympics momentum building do you think?
Have we got a large British contingent planned for this year's world cups do you know?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on March 28, 2018, 05:17:30 pm
Not a clue...
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on April 04, 2018, 04:59:30 pm
UK squad now submitted:

Women:
COXSEY Shauna
CRANE Leah
SLANEY Hannah (Who crushed at Studio Bloc Masters)
PHILLIPS Emily
WOOD Jennifer
TOOTHILL Holly

Men:
COUSINS Matthew   
ROBERTS Aidan
PHILLIPS Nathan
BARRANS David
LANDMAN Tyler  8)
AYRTON Max


No Anna Stoher though - think she mentioned retiring last year from the full circuit?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: fatneck on April 10, 2018, 02:21:13 pm
Psyched!!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on April 13, 2018, 03:11:21 pm
What happened in the mens qualifier? 17 athletes topped all boulders in the first group, while 2 tops and 4 zones was enough to qualify from the second. Weird.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Duma on April 14, 2018, 11:55:02 am
Yeah looked a bit unbalanced.

Anyone else stuck at work watching semis or are you all out in the sunshine?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Duma on April 14, 2018, 12:13:39 pm
Jessica Pilz must be gutted!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: joel182 on April 14, 2018, 11:27:01 pm
Thought the split format for the finals was rubbish. Three hours long, lots of glitches on the stream, still a bunch of camera blunders, and it really drags out the boulders on which the climbers aren't making much progress.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on April 15, 2018, 11:20:46 am
Thought the split format for the finals was rubbish. Three hours long, lots of glitches on the stream, still a bunch of camera blunders, and it really drags out the boulders on which the climbers aren't making much progress.

Agree on the split format, much better to have them side by side and split screen when necessary. Thought it was a great comp overall, maybe the finals was a bit too easy for the women but the mens comp was spot on.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on April 15, 2018, 11:24:38 am
What happened in the mens qualifier? 17 athletes topped all boulders in the first group, while 2 tops and 4 zones was enough to qualify from the second. Weird.

Yeah this is weird. Do they climb the same problems in two different sessions? Could a massive difference in conditions cause the disparity? Or do they climb approximate replicas of each problem in one big session? Also how are they split in to groups? Must be by previous results I guess to have an even spread of climbers in each group.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Duma on April 15, 2018, 01:53:30 pm
they climb different problems

groups are split by ranking, odd and even I think
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on April 16, 2018, 12:41:12 pm
Split is done from the World Ranking, which is based on events (World Cups + World Champs) from the last 365 days.

Group 1 = 1, 4, 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, 16, 17 etc

Group 2 = 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14, 15 etc

Where possible the groups climb on similar terrain eg in Meiringen there was 1 slab for each group, 1 prow for each group, 1 40 degree for each group.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Danny on April 16, 2018, 09:03:46 pm
I think the non-split screen format is better. IIRC, a few folk weren't happy when it was split screen.
I don't like too much in the way of jumping all over the place style problems, but M3 did provide some cracking moments. Overall: great start to the season. Good work all involved.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: r-man on April 16, 2018, 09:38:25 pm
When the screen was split  into 4 boxes for the qualis it was hard to watch - I think that was the main complaint.

A screen split into two halves is fine. Climbing is vertical and thin, it suits split screen perfectly.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Danny on April 16, 2018, 11:02:08 pm
Misremembered on my part perhaps. I do prefer one at a time though.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on April 17, 2018, 08:05:04 am
I much prefer one climber at the time.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on April 17, 2018, 09:20:27 am
I'm torn - I preferred being able to focus on one route; both in term of camerawork but also commentary.

However 3.5 - 4 hours is a lot to watch, even skipping the intro and observations (there was barely any gap between the men and women's comp), not just for the stream but for the audience too?

Wicked to see Jernej get a gold - well deserved, and also great seeing Jakob smash M4. Manu - hah! What a show, but got to be tough for him, Chon didn't seem to be firing on all cylinders.


Women's was a bit too easy, they still got separation, but lacked a little bit of drama. Commentary said it was set slightly soft to make a good show, which seems risky. It must be hard enough getting them hard-but-not-too-hard, to then make them slightly soft was always going to be risky.
All women except Shauna looked on fire, and getting into the finals when you're way off form is still some achievement. I still think Janja isn't quite at the dominating level, Miho and Fanny looked great. Shame Janja isn't doing the full season, and nor Shauna (is anyone?).

Overall, thought the production was great, though suspect some of this was down to the venue.
Why can't clocks work properly?

Oh, and there was lots of tutting from me at the photographer getting up in Akiyo's face on the slab...
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: SA Chris on April 17, 2018, 11:07:35 am
I much prefer one climber at the time.

Me too, watch on phone with tapping screen to jump forward 10 seconds function.

Men's prob 2 was a great piece of setting, so fun to watch.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on April 18, 2018, 10:27:42 am
Just watched up on catch-up. Really good overall.

W's generally too easy obviously, but still nice climbing. Shauna was so far off the boil she was almost in the fridge.

M's excellent, tense and exciting with some great climbing the whole way. Jakob on M4 was an amazing end. Great selection of problems despite being a bit jump-heavy.

I really liked that almost all problems were demonstratedly solveable by different methods, very entertaining especially out-witting the parkour problems. Kept it interesting the whole way.

Zone is an incredibly stupid name.

4 mins still sucks even if it didn't have much of a role apart from resting on M4 maybe.

Footage was good.

A great start to the season.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on April 19, 2018, 04:13:21 pm
GB starters for this weekend:

COXSEY, Shauna                  
WOOD, Jennifer                     
FRUGTNIET, Rhoslyn                  
HORROCKS, Imogen
   
LANDMAN, Tyler                  
COLEY, Orrin                  
BOSI, William
COUSINS, Matthew
ROBERTS, Aidan
PHILLIPS, Nathan   
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on April 19, 2018, 04:54:47 pm
http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition/calendar#!type=starters&comp=7134

Interested to see that all the best Japanese climbers (male & female) are doubling in bouldering and speed. Jan Hojer, Sean McColl (of course), Jakob Schubert, Dinara Fakritdinova, Julia Chanourdie, and Chloe Caulier as well.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on April 19, 2018, 08:14:45 pm
Olympics preparation I guess. I've never tried speed climbing, I wonder if it has much of a detrimental effect on bouldering performance? How tiring is climbing an easy route very fast repeatedly?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on April 20, 2018, 11:08:03 am
Interested to see that all the best Japanese climbers (male & female) are doubling in bouldering and speed.

The Japanese started training for speed climbing last year. I saw them all at the China Open in November and they all know how to climb the route, whether they were fast is a different question. Some were quite fast like Miechi, others were slow eg Miho but they all had the correct technique.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Muenchener on April 20, 2018, 12:01:54 pm
I eagerly await seeing Jain Kim static-and-graceful her way up it. In about eight seconds.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on April 20, 2018, 12:39:54 pm
I did spend some time meditating on whether the mandatory inclusion of speed-climbing was the stupidest thing in the history of climbing, before realising it was a waste of mental energy on something so self-evident. Hopefully it won't impinge on the quality of the proper climbing too much.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: 36chambers on April 20, 2018, 12:47:59 pm
I did spend some time meditating on whether the mandatory inclusion of speed-climbing was the stupidest thing in the history of climbing, before realising it was a waste of mental energy on something so self-evident. Hopefully it won't impinge on the quality of the proper climbing too much.

Imagine if the olympics were done in knockout stages starting with speed climbing. All the elite "proper" climbers would be out in the first round and we'll be left watching average climbers battle it out in the sport and bouldering for the gold. To then be celebrated as the best rock climber in the world :punk:.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on April 20, 2018, 08:36:10 pm
I did spend some time meditating on whether the mandatory inclusion of speed-climbing was the stupidest thing in the history of climbing, before realising it was a waste of mental energy on something so self-evident. Hopefully it won't impinge on the quality of the proper climbing too much.

Think of it more as the discretionary (on the part of the IOC, you know the people whose party the Olympics are) inclusion of lead and boulder  :great:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on April 20, 2018, 08:59:01 pm
 :furious:

^^^ I don't use him very often but it's the only response! I know the reasoning, but I'm never going to like it. Still I suppose one shouldn't overlook that lead and boulder are in the fxxxing Olympics :D
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Muenchener on April 21, 2018, 01:28:53 pm
Jakob Schubert not qualified (http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition#!comp=7134&cat=6). Bugger me, wasn't expecting that.


Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on April 24, 2018, 09:16:54 am
I don't know if we have had a link to this interview before https://www.innsbruck2018.com/en/detail/artikel/interview-aleksei-rubtsov.html

Aleksei Rubtsov is blunt and plainspoken (apparently characteristically so)

Quote
Do you talk to coaches to get advice?

How to say... there are no coaches in which I believe 100%. Almost all the advice I have gotten from coaches was not so smart. I don't believe that we have super good coaches in climbing at the moment.

Why?

Because we don't see great results, except for the Japanese Bouldering team. But they don't share anything with anyone. All I see now in Bouldering in Europe: it is not good. I have been training for 10 years. When I talk with a coach and he tells me something and I know that I trained that way before 2012 and it doesn't work, then I know my system is better. I then can't trust this coach for advice in Lead climbing, because when you have no good plan for Bouldering, why should you have one for Lead?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: remus on April 24, 2018, 04:41:18 pm
Working for a training company Im biased, but his bit about coaches seems very odd to me. No one coach is ever going to be able to provide you with perfect advice, especially in a multi-faceted, under-studied sport like climbing. To say coaches are shit because they're not perfect seems like a lot of 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on April 24, 2018, 05:32:33 pm
It certainly says something about Rubtsov. Some people need to figure out things for themselves, and we should be happy to let them.

It should maybe be posted with this analysis by Udo Neuman as a companion piece https://www.innsbruck2018.com/en/detail/artikel/udo-neumann-moscow-analysis.html
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on April 24, 2018, 11:02:43 pm
To say coaches are shit because they're not perfect seems like a lot of 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'.

He seems to more be saying that he knows what works for him better than any coach would. Do you think that Lattice would be able to improve a Boulder World Cup finalist’s training? This isn’t someone hoping to climb Mecca before they’re 40.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: tomtom on April 25, 2018, 08:08:13 am
Very diplomatically put 😅
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: remus on April 25, 2018, 09:24:19 am
He seems to more be saying that he knows what works for him better than any coach would.

If that is his position it still seems very strange. Say one of these mythical japanese coaches came over and offered to help with his training, surely he'd take them up on it?

Quote
Do you think that Lattice would be able to improve a Boulder World Cup finalist’s training? This isn’t someone hoping to climb Mecca before they’re 40.

Id like to think we'd be able to at least offer an interesting perspective on whatever training he's doing at the moment.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on April 25, 2018, 11:06:35 am
If that is his position it still seems very strange. Say one of these mythical japanese coaches came over and offered to help with his training, surely he'd take them up on it?

Quote from: Aleksei the beast
In men's Bouldering, the Europeans had a lot of trouble last season. What were their mistakes, you think?

I think they should work more. All I see is old school training. The Japanese are really good because they worked hard to find new ways that no one knew before. They think about other sports, and combine the knowledge from different sports for climbing. They have a lot of coaches that all work together. In Europe, every coach thinks that he's the smartest one and his system is the best. They are authoritarian. But they should understand that they know nothing and start their education from zero. Five or ten years ago, their system worked because there were not a lot of super strong climbers. But the level increased, while their education did not. I can't tell you what I do, because that is my secret. Laughs.

When you see a country go from a few good finalists per year to having 8 guys in the semis in the last comp, you'd be daft to not want to know what they're up to. The movement in European countries has been in the opposite direction.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: remus on April 25, 2018, 11:53:16 am
I guess all Im trying to say is that I think he's painting european coaches with too broad of a brush. No doubt there's plenty of poor coaches out there, and plenty of stuff that won't work for a particular athlete, but you'll need to sift through some shit advice to pick out the nuggets of stuff that works for you (whether they come from a european coach or a japanese coach).
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Dexter on April 25, 2018, 01:59:46 pm
you'll need to sift through some shit advice to pick out the nuggets of stuff that works for you (whether they come from a european coach or a japanese coach).

I feel like that's part of what he is saying. There's so much advice that isn't good that picking the nuggets is challenging. Should climbers be doing this or trying to figure out what's best for them?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: remus on April 25, 2018, 02:48:04 pm

I feel like that's part of what he is saying. There's so much advice that isn't good that picking the nuggets is challenging.

Maybe it's my misreading of it, then.

Quote
Should climbers be doing this or trying to figure out what's best for them?

Both surely? You're going to repeat a lot of mistakes others have already made if you try and figure everything out for yourself.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on April 27, 2018, 10:47:06 am
Decent comp but W still too easy overall - I started only half-watching at the end because there wasn't so much variation and drama and fighting. Slab was neat. M better balanced but very jump heavy. Is this a deliberate (but unlikely to be admitted to) ploy to get more non-climbers hooked before Olympics??

I still like seeing the ways some competitors outwit the routesetters plans :)

Commentary was very dry after watching Studio Bloc ;)
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on April 27, 2018, 12:02:50 pm
Yeah, echo those thoughts.

I think the zone being worth more than attempts is a slight contra to the 4-minute cap rule, as you do now get desperate last attempts to get the zone, even if the top's not going to happen. Having said that 4+ is still better as Alexei would've got M1 had he not been rushed...

The coordination catch on M3 (?) was great, especially seeing Tamoa just skip it. Some wonderfully heinous matching on the crimp too.

It's early days, but to me it seems a slight reverse of previous years, where there's a core group of Men regularly in the finals (yay Jernej!), but the women's is a bit too open to make it interesting but not for the usual reasons; Shauna's not at 100%, Janja's not doing the full circuit... Fanny really deserves a Gold, and Miho looks set to take the overall.
Still entertaining, but not quite as gripping as previous years? Perhaps it's just me.

Commentary on the whole is better, though at times a little dry. Nice to have informed commentators for the most part, but could do with a little more enthusiasm maybe. More guest commentators too - invest in a third mic :D
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on April 27, 2018, 02:51:31 pm
Is this a deliberate (but unlikely to be admitted to) ploy to get more non-climbers hooked before Olympics??

No of course not, if it was you would have asked the same question after Meiringen.

The setters are different at each comp so different styles. And one thing that probably no one knows is that 1/3rd of the setting team didn't make it to Moscow due to visa problems ie no visa. I don't know why, maybe the scatterbrained Ginger Ninja didn't apply in time or maybe something else but Jacky didn't make it so that probably influenced the setting a fair bit.

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on April 27, 2018, 03:29:07 pm
Oh - Graeme, as you're here, a question...

Is there anything in the rules which cover what would happen should a member of the audience shout beta?

I've always wondered, especially if a climber was in front of their home crowd (or as they usually have teammates in the audience), if they'd completely missed some beta, or preceding climbers had figured out easier beta, what would happen should someone in the audience give advice...?

Are their penalties in place or suchlike?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Will Hunt on April 27, 2018, 03:49:08 pm
Going back a page, I see there was some bitching about the speed climbing in the Olympics. I was at Harrogate Wall recently and noticed that they had an accredited set of the speed climbing route. It has a little engraved plaque at the bottom of it.

I clipped in and apprehensively started to climb, unsure of whether I was getting ideas above my station by attempting a route specifically designed to test the ability of Olympic level athletes. I had heard it said somewhere that the speed route was graded French 6c. It's a 5+. Maximum. It might actually be a 5. I would actually expect most able bodied and reasonably active non-climbers to be able to get up it clean on their first climbing session. Literally a ladder. In fact, a ladder might be harder going, especially if it was wobbly or had some missing rungs.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on April 27, 2018, 04:13:17 pm
Going back a page, I see there was some bitching about the speed climbing in the Olympics. I was at Harrogate Wall recently and noticed that they had an accredited set of the speed climbing route. It has a little engraved plaque at the bottom of it.

I clipped in and apprehensively started to climb, unsure of whether I was getting ideas above my station by attempting a route specifically designed to test the ability of Olympic level athletes. I had heard it said somewhere that the speed route was graded French 6c. It's a 5+. Maximum. It might actually be a 5. I would actually expect most able bodied and reasonably active non-climbers to be able to get up it clean on their first climbing session. Literally a ladder. In fact, a ladder might be harder going, especially if it was wobbly or had some missing rungs.

Well sorry Will but you are wrong. When Percy first set the WR back in 2007 he thought it was 6a+/6b. Which it is probably still is as it hasn't changed. But only if you can climb harder. It is a massively physical, weirdly dynamic 6a+/6b. If you think that it is a 5 then you are demented. And probably quite a good climber.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on April 27, 2018, 04:18:28 pm
Oh - Graeme, as you're here, a question...

Is there anything in the rules which cover what would happen should a member of the audience shout beta?

I've always wondered, especially if a climber was in front of their home crowd (or as they usually have teammates in the audience), if they'd completely missed some beta, or preceding climbers had figured out easier beta, what would happen should someone in the audience give advice...?

Are their penalties in place or suchlike?

Difficult one, need to prove intent etc. Ideally need coaches etc plus the audience behind a sound curtain. We did it at the Sheffield BWC in 2011, he was called Dustin the Shouty Canadian. Maybe he is the future.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on April 27, 2018, 04:19:53 pm
Going back a page, I see there was some bitching about the speed climbing in the Olympics. I was at Harrogate Wall recently and noticed that they had an accredited set of the speed climbing route. It has a little engraved plaque at the bottom of it.... etc

This is like walking the 100m on the track and wondering what the fuss is about, you're missing the defining factor of the route.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Teaboy on April 27, 2018, 04:43:50 pm
It's a fair point though, the route isn't a test of climbing skill but of speed. It's not hard to imagine a basket ball player or sprinter training for the speed even and in a couple of months being competitive it still being unable to climb routes or boulders above, say, 7b - obviously that grade is plucked out of thin air but the point is that it's a physical challenge for the sake of it rather anything to do with climbing. Ok, hardly a revelatory point!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on April 27, 2018, 04:47:46 pm
Oh - Graeme, as you're here, a question...

Is there anything in the rules which cover what would happen should a member of the audience shout beta?

I've always wondered, especially if a climber was in front of their home crowd (or as they usually have teammates in the audience), if they'd completely missed some beta, or preceding climbers had figured out easier beta, what would happen should someone in the audience give advice...?

Are their penalties in place or suchlike?

Difficult one, need to prove intent etc. Ideally need coaches etc plus the audience behind a sound curtain. We did it at the Sheffield BWC in 2011, he was called Dustin the Shouty Canadian. Maybe he is the future.

And presumably you'd need multi-lingual judges to capture it... I guess it shows how respectful the crowd are that it's not cropped up, but I can certainly imagine a sneaky " TOE HOOK THE ARETE", or even "YOU'VE GOT TWO ATTEMPTS TO WIN" making a significant difference.

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Muenchener on April 27, 2018, 05:35:59 pm
"YOU'VE GOT TWO ATTEMPTS TO WIN" making a significant difference.

Not any more. Janja said in her post-victory interview in Moscow that they now have a scoreboard in isolation.

Unlike on the f*cking live feed  :furious:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on April 27, 2018, 06:17:57 pm
It is a massively physical, weirdly dynamic 6a+/6b. If you think that it is a 5 then you are demented. And probably quite a good climber.

Well you got that mostly right ;) :D

Ratho have theirs as 6b which felt about right. I didn't enjoy it very much.

Edit: I forgot about M2, that was ace, seeing Alexei do it in slow mo.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Will Hunt on April 27, 2018, 08:04:00 pm
Going back a page, I see there was some bitching about the speed climbing in the Olympics. I was at Harrogate Wall recently and noticed that they had an accredited set of the speed climbing route. It has a little engraved plaque at the bottom of it.... etc

This is like walking the 100m on the track and wondering what the fuss is about, you're missing the defining factor of the route.

Yes, but you wouldn't ask Bolt to run the 100m and then have a judging panel score him or out of 10 based on form and style would you? So it's really the speed climbers who have missed the defining factor of the whole sport.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on April 27, 2018, 08:11:49 pm
They’re all games Will, there’s some stairs round the back you know.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Will Hunt on April 27, 2018, 09:14:31 pm
They’re all games Will, there’s some stairs round the back you know.

Indeed, but this particular game is of so little consequence in determining who is the best climber as to warrant its exclusion from the Olympics. I understand this isn't going to happen, but it doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on April 28, 2018, 07:22:32 am
Oh - Graeme, as you're here, a question...

Is there anything in the rules which cover what would happen should a member of the audience shout beta?

I've always wondered, especially if a climber was in front of their home crowd (or as they usually have teammates in the audience), if they'd completely missed some beta, or preceding climbers had figured out easier beta, what would happen should someone in the audience give advice...?

Are their penalties in place or suchlike?

Difficult one, need to prove intent etc. Ideally need coaches etc plus the audience behind a sound curtain. We did it at the Sheffield BWC in 2011, he was called Dustin the Shouty Canadian. Maybe he is the future.

And presumably you'd need multi-lingual judges to capture it... I guess it shows how respectful the crowd are that it's not cropped up, but I can certainly imagine a sneaky " TOE HOOK THE ARETE", or even "YOU'VE GOT TWO ATTEMPTS TO WIN" making a significant difference.

You don't have to be that unsubtle. A simple code like Come on = correct sequence and That's right = wrong sequence is sometimes all that you need. Or a simple smile when paths cross in the finals = yes the sequence we discussed works.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Reprobate_Rob on May 05, 2018, 07:34:47 pm
So this happened earlier in Chongqing...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiZO6T8DBoR/

 8)
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on May 06, 2018, 11:35:42 am
Jesus. Noguchi was strong today.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on May 06, 2018, 02:59:03 pm
In a different league today for sure, super impressive.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on May 10, 2018, 07:13:11 am
The split finals thing is really bad, makes watching a bit of an ordeal. Especially when you have nearly half an hour of everyone failing on the first move of a problem!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on May 10, 2018, 02:59:01 pm
The split finals thing is really bad, makes watching a bit of an ordeal. Especially when you have nearly half an hour of everyone failing on the first move of a problem!

Complain on IFSC Youtube or IFSC social media and then it might have some affect.

(Pedant alert: it was a mere 24 minutes and it was the 3rd move, albeit the 1st significant move  :whistle:)
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on May 10, 2018, 03:20:16 pm
I may be in the minority, but I'm a fan of the split format, but that may be because I'm rarely watching live so can skip past any rubbish bits!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on May 17, 2018, 09:38:51 pm
Jesus. Noguchi was strong today.

Fuck yeah. Just caught up on this, Baldy Boscoe got it spot on calling her "imperious". Impressive indeed.

Good fun as usual although some oddities, especially some volume-heavy stuff in the sun and the strange balance of the men's final. Although M2 and especially M4 were ace to watch. I watched the W's last week so have forgotten about them but I think they were all interesting.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on May 17, 2018, 09:42:20 pm
Also Sean on M4 was great and the co-commentators were good.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: SA Chris on May 18, 2018, 12:25:49 pm
I may be in the minority, but I'm a fan of the split format, but that may be because I'm rarely watching live so can skip past any rubbish bits!

I never watch live either. If you are watching on a phone where you can double tap the screen to jump forward 10 seconds you can crack through boring bits quite quickly.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on May 23, 2018, 11:04:28 am
Caught up on Taiwan or whatever it was. Thoughts are a bit haphazard on this so bear with me.

Setting balance does seem a bit off this year? Men's again this time. The co-commentator sounded a bit frustrated it boiled down to 2 blocs again. M2-4 were good to watch tho. M4 in particular was a cool problem despite the foothold at the start, looked very fontesque.

Question about M2: Has it always been legit to pull off the ground with any combination of limbs vs. taped holds, as long as you make the requisite number of limb-tape matches before moving to the next hold?? Gregor and a couple of others started with 3 limbs on a 2 tape hold and 1 limb on the other 2 tape hold, before moving up and tapping 1 limb back onto the other 2 tape.

Women's was really good, I liked the variety of problems, some really nice movements e.g. W1 going from slab teetering to a wee jump to slopey mantles. Interesting to see the contrasting in styles as well, e.g. Miho going for high moves and locks to get lots of compression on the go. Obviously exciting for Team Japan!

As always a thoroughly entertaining watch overall.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on May 23, 2018, 11:39:18 am
Question about M2: Has it always been legit to pull off the ground with any combination of limbs vs. taped holds, as long as you make the requisite number of limb-tape matches before moving to the next hold?? Gregor and a couple of others started with 3 limbs on a 2 tape hold and 1 limb on the other 2 tape hold, before moving up and tapping 1 limb back onto the other 2 tape.

Yes it has always been okay although I am sure that some climbers will have been stopped by boulder judges making a mistake  :whistle:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on May 23, 2018, 12:14:37 pm
Cheers. I think later on on that problem, one climber pulled on and then just tapped the right hand 2 tape hold with his hand and got called down, and another climber did the same but firmly pressed the same hold with his hand, obviously that was the "hands must be in control" rule in effect. I never knew about the pulling leeway in general though.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on May 23, 2018, 03:32:06 pm
Cheers. I think later on on that problem, one climber pulled on and then just tapped the right hand 2 tape hold with his hand and got called down, and another climber did the same but firmly pressed the same hold with his hand, obviously that was the "hands must be in control" rule in effect. I never knew about the pulling leeway in general though.

Mr Kruder touched with the right hand. He got pulled off, so to speak, and protested saying "I touched it", I told him "Yes but you didn't use it". He didn't complain nor did his team.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on June 03, 2018, 10:25:55 pm
Just watched Women's from Japan. Good production values (lighting, filming, etc) and the half wood holds on the last problem were a thing of beauty. Good set, W2 in particular, also W4. Good separation too. I wish W3 had been slightly easier because it looked so cool when Akiyo progressed on it, would be nice to see some later moves.

Akiyo is crazy good at the moment. Burl as well as precision. Hope Stasa's back is okay.

M's later.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: danm on June 04, 2018, 12:10:18 pm
Michaela was on good form wasn't she? One matched hold away from the finals.....so close!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on June 04, 2018, 01:37:05 pm
Michaela was on good form wasn't she? One matched hold away from the finals.....so close!

She spent the next couple of hours wandering around screaming "2 seconds" at all and sundry, in that mad, manic but nice Micky kind of way  :bounce:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Will Hunt on June 04, 2018, 01:52:12 pm
Graeme, this has absolutely nothing to do with competition climbing. I just wanted to say thank you. I think this is the first time, in perhaps the last decade, that I've seen someone say "wandering" instead of "wondering" and it has lifted my spirits.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on June 04, 2018, 05:23:30 pm
Mens comp was fantastic. Great finish on the last problem.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Danny on June 04, 2018, 07:36:17 pm
Great comp. Really cool all round.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Steve R on June 05, 2018, 07:23:43 pm
Yeah men's comp was brilliant.  Thought Khazanov's commentary was great too, normally end up watching essentially on mute but he really added to it with a lot of genuine enthusiasm. Seemed to mention his own recent win a lot (fair enough I suppose!) but compensated well with some adroitly delivered Boscoe nonsense slap downs.   
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Sasquatch on June 05, 2018, 08:09:39 pm
Men's was brilliant.  Great to see so much shakeup and lack of total dominance by anyone.  Obv the Japanese team has amazing depth, but in the finals we've seen so much great variation. 

I think that's part of why the women's feel a bit flat. Akiyo is on another level with the rest of the field, Miho is shortly behind, then everyone else.  It seems like if Janja was doing all of the comps, maybe it would be a two horse race.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on June 06, 2018, 07:02:22 am
Mens final was probably the best final ive ever watched, really great.

some adroitly delivered Boscoe nonsense slap downs.

Percy did a good job in the semis too!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on June 06, 2018, 01:58:48 pm
Great Men's comp - Good Women's comp.

Alex was a great co-commentator - great technical contributions, but the enthusiasm he brought was what's been missing from some of the previous broadcasts. That's why I always liked Finn (Was it Finn?), cheering and whooping with the crowd, with occasional bias.

Anyway - great stuff. Men's problems were ace, I still feel Alexsey would've won loads more on 4+, he always seems to solve things a fraction too late and then drops the last move.

Women's was fun, but still feel the season overall is a little flat with Janja not doing all and Shauna off the boil. Good problems mind.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on June 07, 2018, 01:08:47 pm
Mens comp was fantastic. Great finish on the last problem.

This! Last two on M4 had me actually gasping with excitement. Good set of dramatic, aesthetic problems to lead to that finish.

I liked the co-commentator too, refreshing direct and fun.

There were a few moments, obviously, where 4+ was still missed.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on June 07, 2018, 01:10:42 pm
P.S. Still really liking IFSC and these competitions. So good and so inspiring having them to watch.

P.P.S. Why don't they have low-noise fans (the mechanical cooling kind not groupies with thundersticks!) pointing at the stage for better conditions??
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: gme on June 09, 2018, 11:11:01 pm
Totally unwatchable feed. Looks like the US could do with asking China for a bit of tech help.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: highrepute on June 10, 2018, 10:30:06 am
It was jittery towards the end of the men's comp but fine all through the women's for me.

Puccio looking like a more complete climber here than I've seen before from her. Coming out to that last problem that no one had done, knowing if she did it she'd win and flashing it was incredible. Great stuff.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Sasquatch on June 11, 2018, 02:51:14 am
Stream issues aside.  Competitors and setters all were amazing again.

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Danny on June 11, 2018, 09:16:36 am
Another good comp. Puccio flashing the last problem to win was an amazing moment. This season has been really good overall.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: fatneck on June 11, 2018, 10:13:29 am
Only just finished watching the Tokyo round - what a finish!!!! Super stoked for Gabri and Alex's commentary was great! Will get round to watching the Vail round this week...
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on June 20, 2018, 09:38:33 pm
Just caught up on Vail, wow that had some great moments in. More consistent balance of boulders, good blend of styles, nice to see some proper BURL mixed in with the nu-skool. Some of the different methods for hard moves were ace too, always good viewing. And of course the Pooch on W4, I got some palpitations on that! Ws was especially exciting with the competing.

There's a non-skipping catch-up stream here : https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/playback/finals-ifsc-world-cup-boulder-vail/

Graeme, my usual technical question this week is: W2, the swing into the dyno, it looked like Fanny was bumping against the left arete of that alcove, which seemed to be taped off. Did I see that right, and if so is that legit??

Also have the camera man and wayne's world cable dude been beaten with sticks yet??
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on June 20, 2018, 09:39:39 pm
Basically my response to this week, like most weeks is:  :w00t:  :strongbench: :bow: :o :2thumbsup: , really liking this season.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on June 27, 2018, 07:58:38 pm
Wait a minute the season is over  :'( Lead soonish tho....
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: joel182 on June 28, 2018, 03:08:14 pm
Wait a minute the season is over  :'( Lead soonish tho....

One more round - Munich in August (https://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/component/ifsc/?view=event&WetId=7155)? Still, a break of 2 months and a bunch of lead comps in the middle makes it seem very much out of season...
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: SA Chris on June 28, 2018, 04:26:15 pm

Also have the camera man and wayne's world cable dude been beaten with sticks yet??


Yep, they were really annoying at first, but seemed to back off a bit later in the competition.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on June 29, 2018, 02:49:48 pm
Cheers Joel. Odd having that long a delay. Still, nice there's more.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on July 05, 2018, 08:30:36 pm
In the absence of the usual guru, does anyone have any answer to my question a few posts above about Fanny swinging her body into what looked like a taped off area before a sideways dyno? A friend suggested it would have been clear to the judges that it was impossible to get any benefit from touching that area with her body, still seems a bit of a grey area....
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: webbo on July 05, 2018, 09:09:41 pm
When I read the words “Fanny swinging”. I was hopeful this post was going somewhere else.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on July 08, 2018, 09:35:55 am
Really good comp in Villars on short fierce routes offering good splits, and for once I was home on a Saturday. It's so much nicer to follow sport live...

No big surprises: Romain Desgranges is still the fittest man alive and everybody else should be ashamed of themselves, Jacob Schubert is still the best climber on the circuit, and baring an injury Janja Garnbret will win every lead comp this year.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on July 08, 2018, 11:06:33 am
Yup it was cool. The VOD has some stuttering on the women's which was annoying as it was such a good fight at the top.

Some great camera angles of the tricky bits on this, and neat routes.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Duma on July 12, 2018, 06:01:29 pm
Anna Stoehr has retired from comps:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlI34BGBD8v/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1iqetkmgfj29s
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on July 12, 2018, 07:10:42 pm
Pity but a wise decision. Well done for all she did until now.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Duma on July 14, 2018, 08:25:54 am
Will Bosi getting 5th in lead (and breaking the British speed record) in Chamonix must be worth a mention?  :2thumbsup: :strongbench:

He did promote that horrific BMW thing though...  :no:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on July 14, 2018, 02:35:48 pm
Again, very good semis and finals. The routes where maybe a touch too long/easy as almost everyone stayed on the wall close to 6 min.

To me, it looked like Jessica Pilz won the women's because she was fitter than Janja Garnbret; strange as that sounds. She climbed amazingly well and it was touching to see how much the win ment to her.

The men's final was amazing. Alex Megos did a mistake low down by campusing a long move from a pocket to a sloper which probably cost him too much, making it impossible to top out. I couldn't tell if Jacob Schubert made any particular errors, it didn't look like it to me. As with the women's final it just look the winner, Stefano Ghisolfi, was a tiny bit fitter than the rest that day.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on July 15, 2018, 02:20:28 pm
Amazing result from Bosi!!

Finals were good, but I didn't find the routes quite as interesting as the semis (headjam rest) nor the finals in the previous week. Just a bit more stamina plod into much harder finish. A bit more trickiness mid-way would have been a bit more exciting - albeit the harder finishes were gripping. Still, the actual competing between the athletes was very good.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on July 28, 2018, 10:09:31 pm
Forgot about Briancon but it was good. Oh yeah. Janja and Jessi.

Arco: W great despite lack of tops, interesting moves, perhaps a bit sketchy early on. I have a new crush on american Claire. Big lass. M disappointing, would have liked to have seen more action in the underhang roof. Ondra looked quite sketchy after looking very fluid (until one mistake) in the semis.

Stream quality was wank for the mens and Boscoe's commentary is getting more and more banal.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Duma on August 11, 2018, 03:58:06 pm
Hannah Slaney just won the world junior bouldering: http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/calendar-mobile#!comp=7188&cat=81&route=3
 :bow: :strongbench: :clap2:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on August 19, 2018, 10:41:55 am
Great vibes at Munich although a strange set of bloques. Women's almost entirely burl on slopers and sometimes a bit easy. Men's almost entirely weirdo knackiness and 1 too hard and 4 too easy. 2 and 3 exciting tho. It looked like if they'd taken an average of the difficulty and style and averaged it out, it would have been amazing. Still some great moments tho but not as captivating climbing as some rounds.

Footage and stream quality perfect.

Boscoe managed to say one profound and interesting thing in the 3 hours.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on August 23, 2018, 11:10:28 am
Caught up on Munich - overall good stuff as always.

Women's - Boscoe got it right (?!) saying it's tough for the setters when the bottom two got one top between them, and then top 3 topped all 4, Janja flashing them all.

Men's - More attempts, so more interesting comp, but the problems all seemed quite similar?

I feel for Charlie, it's easy to criticise, but he'd already commentated the semis, then 4 hours or time to fill is quite an ask. Another issue with the non-synchronous format - that and it takes 4 hours to watch the thing!


Miho getting overall is fantastic, and really pleased to see Fanny third overall too, she's looked great all season. Likewise Jernej getting overall is wicked, the men's was pretty wide open.

2019 should be interesting assuming Janja and Shauna (and Pooch?) do the full season, but the Olympics are starting to loom so we shall see.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on August 23, 2018, 11:41:41 am
I'm impressed that people watch the entire finals stream, I just skip through the feed until I get to the successful attempts of the top competitors. With all the flashes in the Women's final this meant it only took 20 mins to watch.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on August 23, 2018, 11:47:31 am
It's all good fun. I really like watching them.

Durbs fair point about the Boscoe.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Durbs on August 23, 2018, 11:58:13 am
Don't get me wrong, I'm not his biggest fan, but I'm a motor mouth and I'd struggle to talk for 8 hours and keep it interesting/coherent!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on August 23, 2018, 12:04:54 pm
Enjoyed the comp and the streams are getting a lot better. The commentary could improve though. I don't find Boscoe unbearable but don't think having to talk for a long time is really an excuse for poor commentary when it's your job. Cricket commentators do a pretty good job and that lasts even longer. The other guy was dreadful.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jakk on August 23, 2018, 03:24:16 pm
Boscoe has been improving over time but he still works best with a knowledgeable (pro who didn't make the finals) co-host who can talk about comp from a climber's perspective. Having a second of him who's basically a few years of comp commentating behind adds nothing as frankly, I don't need to know that a non professional climber can't start the problem, I want to know how a semi finalist would approach it.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: finbarrr on August 23, 2018, 07:39:21 pm
I do hope they change back the separation of male and female competitors.
I loved watching the livestream for years, now I rather watch the replay on my I-tablet and skip the dead time in between attempts.
Also there seemed to be a lot of dead time in between boulders this last comp (I was skipping a lot)
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on August 27, 2018, 01:34:43 pm
Cricket commentators do a pretty good job and that lasts even longer.

Yes but cricket commentators rotate very regularly. TMS rotates their team at least once an hour.

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on August 27, 2018, 01:36:38 pm
The are streaming everything for the Worlds next month, all the quals.   :great: Charlie will be doing something like 4 9 hour days on the trot for the quals!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 07, 2018, 03:10:59 pm
The World's started yesterday with women's lead quals, Molly T-S is through to the semis.

Will Bosi is currently in 10th in his group, he needs top 13 to qualify. Looking good.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 07, 2018, 03:49:12 pm
(Could you tell Charlie that the final operation when calculating the geometric mean of two numbers (as you do to get the score for the qualification) is called the square root (or colloquially the root), not the square.)

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: joel182 on September 07, 2018, 04:28:32 pm
(Could you tell Charlie that the final operation when calculating the geometric mean of two numbers (as you do to get the score for the qualification) is called the square root (or colloquially the root), not the square.)

That’s even worse than mixing up screw-ons and bolt-ons.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: finbarrr on September 08, 2018, 10:33:57 pm
my thoughts on the women's final. total spoiler alert:

NSFW  :
well, time deciding the lead climbing event is certainly a downer.
awkward waiting for the judges to replay and watch the clock...
janja losing after being the only one to top all her routes..
and then there is the belaying on jessie pilz' last moves:
https://youtu.be/LRb6BcfczQs?t=55m28s
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: galpinos on September 09, 2018, 07:18:47 am
The men’s qualifiers controversy hasn’t helped either.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 09, 2018, 10:03:57 am
...

I'm pretty sure that's rope drag, not tight belaying.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Steve Crowe on September 09, 2018, 10:12:24 am
Disappointed at the outcome being decided on time. I’d have preferred either a super final or simply joint winners.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 09, 2018, 11:01:29 am
...

I'm pretty sure that's rope drag, not tight belaying.

Yeah exactly, looked the same for Janja.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 09, 2018, 11:20:21 am
Disappointed at the outcome being decided on time. I’d have preferred either a super final or simply joint winners.

Pilz & Garnbret deserve harder routes, it's not exactly the first time they both top out the final route. I don't particularly care if that means that everyone else falls of below move 20. (Garnbret would've been 3rd in the mens category in Arco, judging by her performance on the men's route when she tried it after the comp.)

And “disappointed” doesn't even begin to cover my feeling about the disqualification of Desgranges for touching a misplaced sponsor banner. As far as I can tell Ondra, among others, touched it as well.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: gme on September 09, 2018, 02:33:17 pm
I thought as an event the comp was great. They seem to have upped there game as we head to the olympics.
It would have been perfect if only one had topped but it’s a hard task for the route setters to get right so there has to be something to separate them in the event of a tie. Personally think it should be done on countback rather than speed but neither is perfect.
They split the gold in a tie at the olympics but it doesn’t happen very often.
The issue with the signs in the men’s was bad and easily avoidable. Guess it won’t happen again.
Ondra was lucky not to fall foul as well but would have qualified.
All in all I think it’s looking good for the sport.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 09, 2018, 02:58:47 pm
(https://planetgrimpe.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/capture-decran-2018-09-09-a-07.57.41.png)

I guess it's OK to stand on it if your sponsored by BD?


(and count back wasn't possible because both Pilz and Gagnbret topped the semi final route as well, and the qualification was on different routes for different groups)
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 09, 2018, 04:36:25 pm
Ondra has pleaded his innocence but it does ruin the Black Diamond meme https://www.instagram.com/p/Bnf9U4Bh-Di/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1pbq4iglf9wop
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on September 09, 2018, 10:32:34 pm
Thought that was pretty good overall. Next Sunday there is something called combined final. Anyone know what this is?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 09, 2018, 10:40:42 pm
Quote from: IFSC infosheet
The six best male and the six best female competitors in the overall ranking for Lead, Speed and Bouldering will then move on to the Combined Finals on Sunday, September 16th. For this ranking the athlete’s results in each discipline will be multiplied with each other and the six athletes with the lowest score qualify for finals.

The sequence of disciplines in the final round will be 1 – Speed, 2 – Boulder, 3 – Lead.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on September 10, 2018, 09:08:58 am
Jesus. Didn't see the qualis but when CB was discussing it during the semis, I assumed it would be a lot more clear cut than that e.g. Sean and Romain edging and Ondra just flagging / smearing his foot against the surface (i.e. no actual usage gained).
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 10, 2018, 04:08:58 pm
That banner might well cost the technical manager of the French national team their job. No french climber in the final in difficulty, neither among the women nor among them men. If Romain had made the final it might have gotten overlooked that they had no female climber in the finals.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: HaeMeS on September 10, 2018, 04:48:11 pm
We've had a bit of discussion (between judges, climbing comp organisers) about the scoring/who won. Schubert and Ondra both scored 36+ but we thought it debatable whether Schuberts throw with his hand for the next hold was 'proper' upward movement. His hand was moving towards the hold in the same moment his body/center of gravity was moving downwards. He did touch the hold and so did Ondra. But Ondra moved his entire body upwards from hold 36 and almost managed to hold his body in a position above hold 36.

We'd give Ondra the 36+ but Schubert 36...

  :popcorn:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on September 10, 2018, 07:35:24 pm
I firmly disagree with that. As much as Ondra was climbing far better and looked ridiculously smooth until that miss. Going for a hold with the seeming intention of getting the hold is exactly what it says.

Jwi so what's the score with the banner - or screwed on placard - thing? Deliberately used? Cropped up before? Shouldn't the athletes know better? Is it the manager's responsibility for not drumming the rules in hard enough? I'd say it's BD's / the organiser's responsibility for putting a fucking stupid solid banner right in the middle of the route....
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 10, 2018, 09:36:02 pm
We've had a bit of discussion (between judges, climbing comp organisers) about the scoring/who won. Schubert and Ondra both scored 36+ but we thought it debatable whether Schuberts throw with his hand for the next hold was 'proper' upward movement. His hand was moving towards the hold in the same moment his body/center of gravity was moving downwards. He did touch the hold and so did Ondra. But Ondra moved his entire body upwards from hold 36 and almost managed to hold his body in a position above hold 36.

We'd give Ondra the 36+ but Schubert 36...

  :popcorn:

Watching the live stream I didn't see any reason to disagree with Jakob's or Adam's score and as an IFSC Technical Delegate at many comps I would be involved with any Appeal. And I have been involved over the last 20 years with the drafting and the Interpretation of the Rules.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 10, 2018, 09:48:03 pm
Deliberately used? Cropped up before? Shouldn't the athletes know better?

1. It is not a question of using deliberately, it is about using. If you have accidentally used a bolt hanger as a foothold you are marked down. If you accidentally use a banned substance then you are guilty of doping (although you may escape further sanction).

2. I don't think it has cropped up before in Lead but the rule was introduced after a certain tall German boulderer blatantly pulled on a banner and consequently got a Top (maybe leading to getting through to the next round, my memory isn't as good as I remember it was!). Toronto (Hamilton) 2014 or maybe 2015. Plus Rustam used a Boulder Number sign as an undercut (matched it the cheeky little bugger) at a WC in Innsbruck, again around 2014/2015.

3. Yes, the athletes should know better.


Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 10, 2018, 09:51:33 pm
We've had a bit of discussion (between judges, climbing comp organisers) about the scoring/who won. Schubert and Ondra both scored 36+ but we thought it debatable whether Schuberts throw with his hand for the next hold was 'proper' upward movement. His hand was moving towards the hold in the same moment his body/center of gravity was moving downwards. He did touch the hold and so did Ondra. But Ondra moved his entire body upwards from hold 36 and almost managed to hold his body in a position above hold 36.

We'd give Ondra the 36+ but Schubert 36...

  :popcorn:

I just watched it again and if someone who is qualified as a judge didn't think that Jakob had a '+', well they need to go on a refresher course because it was the very definition of a '+'. Centre of gravity moved (significantly) and a definite positive hand movement in the line of the route. Granted Adam might have 'won' under the old '-' rule but no way could you not give Jakob a '+'.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: HaeMeS on September 11, 2018, 11:52:48 am
I'll tell the judges!  :lol:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: galpinos on September 11, 2018, 12:00:23 pm
Deliberately used? Cropped up before? Shouldn't the athletes know better?

1. It is not a question of using deliberately, it is about using. If you have accidentally used a bolt hanger as a foothold you are marked down. If you accidentally use a banned substance then you are guilty of doping (although you may escape further sanction).

2. I don't think it has cropped up before in Lead but the rule was introduced after a certain tall German boulderer blatantly pulled on a banner and consequently got a Top (maybe leading to getting through to the next round, my memory isn't as good as I remember it was!). Toronto (Hamilton) 2014 or maybe 2015. Plus Rustam used a Boulder Number sign as an undercut (matched it the cheeky little bugger) at a WC in Innsbruck, again around 2014/2015.

3. Yes, the athletes should know better.

Any comment on the fact it appears all three had their feet above the logo and only two were penalised? Would anything about the formal judgement be published?

To quote someone, "If only BDs shoes were as sticky as their logos......"
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 11, 2018, 12:17:29 pm
That three of the most experienced competitors in difficulty stands (inadvertently, I'm sure) on the banner shows how difficult it is to avoid an unusual obstacle. I'm pretty sure none of them would ever inadvertently stand on a bolt, at least not one with a draw in it, everyone who ever climb on bolts train themselves to avoid standing on them.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 12, 2018, 05:30:21 pm

Any comment on the fact it appears all three had their feet above the logo and only two were penalised? Would anything about the formal judgement be published?

To quote someone, "If only BDs shoes were as sticky as their logos......"

I don't comment publicly on decisions made by fellow IFSC officials  :ras:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 12, 2018, 05:35:32 pm
That three of the most experienced competitors in difficulty stands (inadvertently, I'm sure) on the banner shows how difficult it is to avoid an unusual obstacle. I'm pretty sure none of them would ever inadvertently stand on a bolt, at least not one with a draw in it, everyone who ever climb on bolts train themselves to avoid standing on them.

Lucka Rakovec was marked down in the women's semi final for standing on a bolt. In the Youth World's in Moscow was  also marked a few people down for standing on bolts. It is not unknown
.

As you say the 3 guys were very experienced. I am sure that no one as experienced as say, Adam, could mess up a clip by the 3rd hold http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition#!comp=1524&cat=1&route=0  :o
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 12, 2018, 05:40:20 pm
Just saw the link to the Overall Rankings https://wettkampf.austriaclimbing.com/kvoe/rk_ergebnis.php

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on September 13, 2018, 11:42:00 am
Graeme thanks for the answers and the discussion, always interesting to read.

I have a couple more if you're still around:

One from a couple of months back, sorry if it's boring but am still curious:

There's a non-skipping catch-up stream here : https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/playback/finals-ifsc-world-cup-boulder-vail/

Graeme, my usual technical question this week is: W2, the swing into the dyno, it looked like Fanny was bumping against the left arete of that alcove, which seemed to be taped off. Did I see that right, and if so is that legit??

Also, why don't these comps have those large fans blowing towards the walls / athletes to create better conditions?? Warmth / humidity often seems to be a minor issue....

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: tomtom on September 13, 2018, 07:22:12 pm
Speed climbing finals live on the BBC website right now.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 13, 2018, 08:15:18 pm
Speed climbing finals live on the BBC website right now.

I wonder if the Lead was also on the Beeb, and whether the Boulder will also be there.

And it is more live than the IFSC webcast!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: gollum on September 14, 2018, 09:48:01 am
Looks like the bouldering is on at 6 this eve and tomorrow
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: r-man on September 14, 2018, 02:43:41 pm
Will be live on BBC red button apparently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/45439557
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 15, 2018, 02:22:40 pm
Nathan is in the final  ;D
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: ali k on September 15, 2018, 06:57:06 pm
Can anyone explain how the combined finals works? Is it just a product of the results from the individual disciplines that have already been? Or do they have to do one of each of the individual disciplines on the finals day?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 15, 2018, 07:43:40 pm
They will do all three disciplines in the finals. The women's final will be 10:00 am GMT and the men's 1:30 pm GMT.

On a related note: men's bouldering final was fantastic.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 15, 2018, 08:31:03 pm
Awesome men’s boulder final, great problems, brilliant camera work.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Danny on September 15, 2018, 09:17:37 pm
Very good. Though the quintuple catch parkour type stuff does annoy me a touch. Not so much the men's first one, but the women's was painful to watch for 20 minutes. Also in the women's semis, and generally, they need to sort out the advertising dabs, FFS.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on September 16, 2018, 07:03:02 am
 Really enjoyed the men's comp. Semi probably a bit too easy but made it pretty tense waiting too see whether Phillips made it in to the top six. Great achievement, when was the last time a British man got in to a world cup or champs final? Don't think i can remember it happening often.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Steve Crowe on September 16, 2018, 08:38:44 am
Really enjoyed the men's comp. Semi probably a bit too easy but made it pretty tense waiting too see whether Phillips made it in to the top six. Great achievement, when was the last time a British man got in to a world cup or champs final? Don't think i can remember it happening often.

Three times British Bouldering Champion Andy Earl won the fourth round of the IFSC Bouldering World Cup at La Reunion in 2007...  http://www.climbonline.co.uk/andy_earl.htm
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 16, 2018, 03:27:38 pm
Really enjoyed the men's comp. Semi probably a bit too easy but made it pretty tense waiting too see whether Phillips made it in to the top six. Great achievement, when was the last time a British man got in to a world cup or champs final? Don't think i can remember it happening often.

World Cup - Tyler last year in Meiringen.
World Champs - Dave Barrans in China 2009
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 16, 2018, 04:27:20 pm
Sorry, Ty was in the Meiringen final in 2016 not last year.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 16, 2018, 09:10:18 pm
The combined looks brutal, takes the day fitness requirements to another level!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 16, 2018, 10:06:58 pm
Very good entertainment that combined final. What a mensch Jacob is!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 16, 2018, 10:21:22 pm
Very good entertainment that combined final. What a mensch Jacob is!

Hell yeah, and Ondra, especially in the route.

It seems that the format is going to add more luck/chance into the results due to the way the speed is set up in heats.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Danny on September 16, 2018, 11:13:43 pm
Speed not such a spanner in the works as I imagined it would be. Over quickly, and essentially a consequential warm-up for the bouldering and lead, which work well back-to-back.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: bigironhorse on September 17, 2018, 07:28:44 am
Haven't watched the men's yet but quite enjoyed the women's combined. Not sure why they couldn't just use the ranks for the individual events though? Will they have to do all three events on the same day in the olympics?

I found the speed element a bit bollocks, what with the false starts. Not really sure why it has to be head to head rather than timing between leaving the pad and hitting the top. That way you would have a more accurate measure of climbing performance rather than timing the start perfectly. Maybe its just an attempt to add some entertainment in to an astonishingly boring event.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: tomtom on September 17, 2018, 08:21:10 am
The speed climbing was a better spectacle than I thought it would be (watched the women’s speed only). The head to head and simultaneous start means you can see where one person overtakes the other etc (fast starts and clawing people back). Knockout format means an underdog can progress through.. and for me there was far more jeopardy- in other words there was lots of opportunity to screw up (miss a smear - misplace a foot) which meant several of the top people didn’t make it through.

From the climber in me point of view it’s daft and not that interesting (is parkour boulder problems either??) but as a channel hopping punter it was decent.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 17, 2018, 09:12:54 am
Speed not such a spanner in the works as I imagined it would be. Over quickly, and essentially a consequential warm-up for the bouldering and lead, which work well back-to-back.

On the contrary, a shit speed result is basically going to take you out of contention in the full scale comp with 20 climbers.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Muenchener on September 17, 2018, 09:31:20 am
From the climber in me point of view it’s daft and not that interesting (is parkour boulder problems either??)

Agreed. They need to get the false start rule sorted out, but other than that it's not greatly sillier than sideways multiple dynos.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 17, 2018, 09:32:20 am
Competitor A: 20th in speed, 1st in lead, 2nd in bouldering: 20*1*2 = 40
Competitor B: 5th in speed, 2nd in lead, 4th in bouldering: 5*2*4 = 40.

For a low geometric mean it suffices to win something.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 17, 2018, 11:07:52 am
Well, and coming very near to first in the other discipline too!
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 17, 2018, 01:24:55 pm
Haven't watched the men's yet but quite enjoyed the women's combined. Not sure why they couldn't just use the ranks for the individual events though? Will they have to do all three events on the same day in the olympics?

I found the speed element a bit bollocks, what with the false starts. Not really sure why it has to be head to head rather than timing between leaving the pad and hitting the top. That way you would have a more accurate measure of climbing performance rather than timing the start perfectly. Maybe its just an attempt to add some entertainment in to an astonishingly boring event.

What you saw yesterday was a Combined Final, that is why you only saw head to head. In a full Combined comp you get 20 athletes racing the clock  during Qualification, rather than each other, just like in a normal Speed WC.

Tomoa and Miho really blew it with the false starts, they are the fastest by a good 0.5-0.75 seconds so they really did not need to risk a FS.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: galpinos on September 17, 2018, 01:54:27 pm

What you saw yesterday was a Combined Final, that is why you only saw head to head. In a full Combined comp you get 20 athletes racing the clock  during Qualification, rather than each other, just like in a normal Speed WC.


How are the initial 20 selected Graeme? It would seem that there won't actually be any "speed" climbers getting through to the Olympics (if the selection process at Innsbruck is any indication)?

Despite there being a speed element, I really enjoyed the combined competition. Looked pretty brutal on the competitors though.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 17, 2018, 02:12:22 pm
How are the initial 20 selected Graeme? It would seem that there won't actually be any "speed" climbers getting through to the Olympics (if the selection process at Innsbruck is any indication)?

Top 7 from the (Full) Combined Worlds 2019 in Tokyo - it was going to be Top 6 which makes more sense but someone (either IOC or IFSC Plenary Assembly) decided they didn't want the Overall World Cup winner from 2019 which had previously been factored into the equation.

Then there is the Olympic Qualifying event near Toulouse in November 2019, 6 more get selected from this - this event is for those ranked 8-27 in the Overall Ranking from Tokyo.

Then there are the 5 Continental Champions which take place after the OQ event and before the end of April 2020. The ECH will be in Moscow in April 2020.

Then there is a guaranteed spot for a Japanese although everyone expects at least one Japanese to qualify by other means.

Then there is a wild card to be decided by the IOC.


Despite there being a speed element, I really enjoyed the combined competition. Looked pretty brutal on the competitors though.

In 2020 the men's and women's finals will be on different days so the rest periods will be longer.

Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: galpinos on September 17, 2018, 02:53:56 pm
Cheers Graeme. Nice and simple then......

In 2020 the men's and women's finals will be on different days so the rest periods will be longer.

I guess it won't be on the back of the rest of the world championships either which will help.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 17, 2018, 05:10:49 pm
Cheers Graeme. Nice and simple then......

In 2020 the men's and women's finals will be on different days so the rest periods will be longer.

I guess it won't be on the back of the rest of the world championships either which will help.

Correct but it will be on the back of a Qualification round, which is effectively a speed qualification followed by a boulder semi final and a lead semi final. But there will be a days rest between Quals and Finals.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Danny on September 17, 2018, 07:44:07 pm
Speed not such a spanner in the works as I imagined it would be. Over quickly, and essentially a consequential warm-up for the bouldering and lead, which work well back-to-back.

On the contrary, a shit speed result is basically going to take you out of contention in the full scale comp with 20 climbers.

Hence a "consequential" warm up.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Teaboy on September 18, 2018, 09:11:58 am
Or trampolines
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: BRidal on September 18, 2018, 10:33:55 am

A new type of pad was used for the event, it had laser sensors across the surface of the pad to detect your foot movement, I believe previously the pads were simply a pressure sensor. Concensus was that it seemed to register your foot leaving the pad slightly differently, causing a lot of people to get caught out. Yoshiyuki and Chon both false started, knocking them out of contention for the combined. Boldyrev (current speed world cup leader) also false started, resulting in quite a spectacular chalk bag kick.  :spank:
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: r-man on September 20, 2018, 02:35:49 pm
I enjoyed the combined comps. Entertaining, as tomtom said, from the perspective of a channel hopping punter. It does seem that comps have been evolving to have more appeal to non climbers who might be half interested (eg. combined finals, shorter climbing times, massive increase in parkour problems) and less appealing to many people who really love climbing. But perhaps that's just how sports grow - and in every sport there are traditionalists who argue against change.

It was fun watching non speed specialists on the speed course, mainly because they were so different in their abilities. But despite appreciating the spectacle, I couldn't help but feel the head to head rivalry fundamentally distorted the whole competition. Someone on the other channel (was it you Graeme?) suggested that in this format, all three disciplines had equal weighting. This isn't true. In the speed event, a false start or fumbled hold from one climber directly benefits their rival,  and because all rankings are multiplied, this boost is transferred to the other two disciplines. In lead and bouldering, the competition is between climber and wall. Every climber's performance is equally weighted. When you add a multiplier from a head to head battle, equal weighting disappears.

In these comps, it doesn't look like the overall winner was affected, but silver (in the women's) and bronze (in both) might have been a different story without false starts and slips boosting some competitor's results.

So...I thought it was fun, but in my mind the speed event gave a few climbers an unfair boost. Anyone feel differently? Perhaps this just adds excitement to the proceedings?


Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: jwi on September 20, 2018, 04:41:52 pm
I am not sure I understand; geometric average is way more forgiving than arithmetic average to people who are very bad in one event.

Example, 20 competitors.
20,1,1 is only possible to beat by 4,2,2 using geometric average, whereas it would be possible to beat by 17,2,2 using arithmetic average.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: r-man on September 20, 2018, 07:42:33 pm
The issue is less with people doing badly, and more with their rival profiting more than the rest of the field from their mistake.

I'm sure there is maths to explain this effect, but I'm not a mathematician, so...

In the speed comp, Bob expects to do badly as he has the slowest personal record. But his rival (the fastest on paper) is disqualified with a false start. Bob gets through to the semis. His next opponent also messes up and Bob is through to the finals. Bob loses by a mile, but even though he records the slowest time of the day, he now has a ranking of 2. So two competitors fluffed it, but Bob benefited more than anyone else (unlike in bouldering or lead where everyone else would benefit equally).

Whatever ranking he now achieves in bouldering and lead will be multiplied by only 2. Which effectively means the false starts have disadvantaged everyone except Bob (and the winner of the speed round of course, who was delighted to face the slowest competitor in the finals!). Everyone else is now playing catch up to someone who did nothing to deserve having such a low score.

The issue is that there are two different ranking systems which don't multiply fairly - the man vs man knockout round of speed, and the man vs wall rounds of bouldering and lead. If the competitors in speed were ranked by the fastest time they achieved (ie. man vs wall), it wouldn't be an issue.*

*Here's an idea - in this scenario you could still have knockout rounds, which would reward those who progressed to semis and finals with more chances to record a faster time. Best of both worlds?
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: teestub on September 20, 2018, 09:29:48 pm
The two people Bob faced first made mistakes, if they hadn’t they would have beat Bob’s ass. Speed would be even less acceptable if it was just a time trial style one climber at a time thing.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Footwork on September 21, 2018, 12:05:13 am
The issue is less with people doing badly, and more with their rival profiting more than the rest of the field from their mistake.

In the speed comp, Bob expects to do badly as he has the slowest personal record. But his rival (the fastest on paper) is disqualified with a false start. Bob gets through to the semis. His next opponent also messes up and Bob is through to the finals. Bob loses by a mile, but even though he records the slowest time of the day, he now has a ranking of 2. So two competitors fluffed it, but Bob benefited more than anyone else (unlike in bouldering or lead where everyone else would benefit equally).

Whatever ranking he now achieves in bouldering and lead will be multiplied by only 2. Which effectively means the false starts have disadvantaged everyone except Bob (and the winner of the speed round of course, who was delighted to face the slowest competitor in the finals!). Everyone else is now playing catch up to someone who did nothing to deserve having such a low score.


This sounds like something familiar  :-\  speed ice skating anyone
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Muenchener on September 21, 2018, 07:06:46 am
I watched the speed bit of the combined finals on youtube last night. And having watched a couple of actual speed climbing events recently, slow motion speed climbing was quite amusing.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on September 21, 2018, 08:53:58 pm
I watched the speed bit of the combined finals on youtube last night. And having watched a couple of actual speed climbing events recently, slow motion speed climbing was quite amusing.

You said that on the other channel as well. But what you didn't say was that you had seen the likes of Tomoa (who fucked up with a FS) or Mikael Mawem (who isn't good enough at Lead but might get Top 20 in a real Combined) Speed climbing. Because they climb like Speed climbers, not WR standard but getting here - Tomoa was 21st in the Speed World Champs which is pretty incredible.

Daley Thompson or Jess Ennis weren't brilliant at all of their events but we celebrate them as great champions.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Muenchener on September 21, 2018, 10:09:45 pm
All very true. And I don't recall seeing Tomoa or Mikael (who presumably gets useful tips from his bro). But even Jan - whose times seem respectable to a naive viewer such as myself - still moves very differently from a real speed climber.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on October 31, 2018, 09:09:50 am
Forgot to reply to this before.

So I've been pretty cynical about speed climbing and about the combined format, without knowing how it would work out in reality. Maybe that was naive or ignorant of me. So it was well worth having a combined practice at Innsbruck to see exactly what would happen, and what it was like as a regular fan and spectator....

























.....and exactly as anyone could predict it was shitting awful. What a pile of wank speedclimbing is and what a bigger pile of now-septic wank it's obligatory inclusion is. The only "less than utter shit" aspect is that it's over so quickly that it's very easy to skip over while viewing. Other than that, well the best it could aspire to as part of the format would be irrelevant, but no, instead it spoils the overall effect and celebration of the climbing challenge. The fact that a world class climber can get screwed over because they're not quite as good in the "performing monkey" farce would be a joke, except that it really happens. From what I recall (I've tried to block it out), Jakob just squeezed past Ondra in the bouldering but that was very close, then Ondra delivered a beautiful masterclass in precision and control on the lead.....and got royally fucked over because of speed. Jakob is great, but the best climber didn't win, solely because of speed. Fuck, and indeed, THAT.

Pity about the rain in China a couple of weeks back. The semis were still pretty entertaining.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: GraemeA on November 23, 2018, 04:04:34 pm

"Then there is the Olympic Qualifying event near Toulouse in November 2019, 6 more get selected from this - this event is for those ranked 8-27 in the Overall Ranking from Tokyo."

I got this bit wrong, or it has changed. The athletes for Toulose will be picked from the Overall World Cup Ranking for 2019. Two scores from each discipline with relative ranking (ie only looking at those involved in the Overall) being the important aspect. then multiply the numbers.

It is a nightmare to predict as it can all change at the very last WC of the year if someone drops out before getting their 6 results logged.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: SA Chris on February 22, 2019, 11:40:17 am
Save me doing a lot of searching if anyone can recall;

Was talking to someone at work about the boulder problems often having many ways of doing them depending on strengths and weaknesses of competitors, and I recalled one of the comps having a start that involved swinging along on some volumes, that was done a few different ways, and the one of the strong guys (?) came along and pretty much did every move statically. Can't remember which comp though.

(I know this is a bit of a Maaargret? Question, just someone might remember!).
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: Fiend on February 22, 2019, 11:42:25 am
Blue volumes, right to left, iirc. I know the one, it was ace to see the different ways around it. It was this season but can't remember the comp.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: User deactivated on February 22, 2019, 11:46:38 am
Meiringen 2018. Boulder 2 in the final. Jakob Schubert.
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: joel182 on February 22, 2019, 12:11:21 pm
Meiringen 2018. Boulder 2 in the final. Jakob Schubert.

Good knowledge!
https://youtu.be/fBS0v29rACQ?t=8763 (https://youtu.be/fBS0v29rACQ?t=8763)
Title: Re: IFSC 2018
Post by: SA Chris on February 22, 2019, 12:16:09 pm
Thanks guys, that's the one. Definitely worth a rewatch.
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