UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Dave Flanagan on August 01, 2008, 03:51:19 pm
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Yesterday I bought a bar and 50kgs of weight what exercises should I do to improve my bouldering?
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i tend to use my weights more for antagonistic exs i.e.shoulder press,lat raises,bench press with a few bicep/tricep exs and some bent over rows.
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Yesterday I bought a bar and 50kgs of weight what exercises should I do to improve my bouldering?
campusing. ;)
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sorry...
i think you should train every muscle, not only antagonistic ones. i am currently doing a cycle of weights (not as seriously as i should) and feel quite good about that. mind, it's only to get more overall power, to prevent injuries and to prepare my body for next autumn and winter of specific training.
what's your goal with the weights?
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what's your goal with the weights?
I suppose my goal is build all round strength which I think is a bigger factor in bouldering than it might seem. I don't go to wall from March to October so I need to do something. The style of bouldering I do usually, friction, granite is rarely fingery and is also about body tension and compression so I reckon so it might benifit from some overall power.
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Yesterday I bought a bar and 50kgs of weight what exercises should I do to improve my bouldering?
What condition are you currently in? I'd be wary of recommending something without knowing that because in some cases it just isn't relevant.
I've had a good couple of rants on my blog about various aspects of weight training recently as well as diet, not sure how relevant they would be though.
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i know paul isn't a fan of this, but i really improved my overall power by doing four sets of 25 reps for every muscular group with little weight. i think it's a good way to start, you stress the muscle gently and don't bulk. then you're ready for starting with bigger weights. try to avoid the 9-14 reps range if you want to avoid bulking up, but it also depends from how prone you are to getting muscle mass, your diet, how correctly you train. all these factors contribute to make this reply very useless.
anyway good luck.
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i know paul isn't a fan of this, but i really improved my overall power by doing four sets of 25 reps for every muscular group with little weight. i think it's a good way to start, you stress the muscle gently and don't bulk. then you're ready for starting with bigger weights. try to avoid the 9-14 reps range if you want to avoid bulking up, but it also depends from how prone you are to getting muscle mass, your diet, how correctly you train. all these factors contribute to make this reply very useless.
anyway good luck.
lets not go back here. It's like saying "I want to get strong and powerful, hey I know, I'll go and do some endurance training routes perhaps"....
You KNOW it doesn't make sense and yes you gain strength, it's something new but its not efficient at all. Do things properly, there's a million and one scientific articles to prove this point.
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I'll add to the above:
if you plateau, or before undertaking a serious weights program it can useful to do high rep training in order to increase the Vascularity of a given muscle group, improving the blood supply and setting yourself up for bigger gains in the future.
Nibile I'm sure on Guru's plan you have made gains, I strongly believe that if you'd followed something else you would have made bigger gains without turning into a huge monster.
Dave:
How often are you looking at training?
Will you still be fitting in climbing?
If so what do you currently do 1 on 1 off etc. ?
What equipment do you have access to, bench (decline to fully seated?), dumbbells, pullup bar, barbell (how heavy?)
as all of the above will dictate what will be of benefit and realistically what you can do.
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I rate these dumbbell complexes for conditioning/strength: http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html (http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html)
I usually do them after climbing on my last day on.
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no no paul, the 4x25 isn't a guru plan, just a suggestion from a strong friend. i think i made gains because it was ages since i last did weights, but this all was two years ago.
now i'm generally doing 5 sets of 6 reps, it's strenuous but obviously it's much more power oriented, i just can feel it in my body. and to be honest, despite the look i get back from the mirros in the gym, i don't think i'm bulking up, but surely i'm improving alot my muscular quality. i just think that the 4x25 routines are much easier to go along with some proper climbing specific training, while the powerful sessions of 5x6 take much more to be digested. the day after a session i can't really climb hard, in the gym at last, but really these days i don't know, after the broken wrist i kinda lost every parameter, so now i just go with the flow trying to pull as hard as i can without (almost) breaking my wrist again. i think i can't say nothing really up to date until i get some rest, some proper bone repair, some decent temps and i can do some tests.
in the meanwhile, crushing hard is truly welcome.
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I rate these dumbbell complexes for conditioning/strength: http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html (http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html)
I usually do them after climbing on my last day on.
Nice find!!! After climbing on your last day on is hardcore...
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I rate these dumbbell complexes for conditioning/strength: http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html (http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html)
I usually do them after climbing on my last day on.
Nice find!!! After climbing on your last day on is hardcore...
To be fair I do them after climbing, not bouldering which I find more intense on the body than routes which usually just tends to be about the fingers.
Old Istvan also has a youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/ijavorek (http://www.youtube.com/user/ijavorek) which is useful for form and exercise description. Note that some of the dumbbell complexes are slightly different than the ones on his website.
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Basic principal of weights:
1- 6 reps = strength
6-12 reps= size
12-20+=endurance
2-4 Sets each exercise (not including warm up sets)
Now obviously these cross over somewhat but if you keep the general numbers in mind then you're on the right track.
Piss!
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Note that some of the dumbbell complexes are slightly different than the ones on his website.
Its good that there are videos so you can check your form, thats one issue resolved as pointing people towards complex exercises is usually a scary thought.
Basic principal of weights:
1- 6 reps = strength
6-12 reps= size
12-20+=endurance
2-4 Sets each exercise (not including warm up sets)
Now obviously these cross over somewhat but if you keep the general numbers in mind then you're on the right track.
Piss!
I know you said basic principles but its a bit of an over simplification especially in the set range. 5 x 5 is an extremely common starting point for strength/power. People even suggest 10 sets of 3.
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I'm definately over simplifying things. Like i said these numbers will cross over. There's loads of possible combinations but if you keep the basic principles of weight training to mind you wont go far wrong.
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Oh, one ommision. It's usual as Paul states, to up the sets if you drop the reps for strength.
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next you're gonna say "with longer rests between"
buy a kettlebell and stop messing about
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Here's my two-penneth...
I remember reading an interview with a weight lifter. When asked whether you should do low reps and high weights or high reps and low weights, he said "high reps and high weights". I suppose this translates as, whatever you decide to do, how hard you try is the most important variable.
Secondly, I think the idea of agonist-antagonist muscles is somewhat out dated. We now know that muscles work in synergistic groups. For example, if you do a squat (a quads exrecise), you'll feel your hamstrings working. This is even more relevant in the shoulders and arms, as these joints are so much less structurally stable. This is why doing rings (for example) can be so effective.
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I'm with you Sausage re. the synergistic groups bit.
I remember the Clean and Jerk being a great exercise for getting multiple muscle groups to start firing in unison.
As part of our current 'extra curricular' rotation we are doing weighted pull ups (reducing weight as we go to maintain 6-8 reps) and eventually negatives(with no weight) which is also along the same synergistic lines of controlling multiple muscle groups in a complex motion. Also, weighted press ups, eventually aided on the ups to maintain form and allow negs on the downs. Its amazing how much bicep is required for neg press ups, but as the triceps fail first(on the ups) the bicep rarely gets hooned. Another good transition exercise using muscle group synergy.
Stallioni
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Here's my two-penneth...
I remember reading an interview with a weight lifter. When asked whether you should do low reps and high weights or high reps and low weights, he said "high reps and high weights". I suppose this translates as, whatever you decide to do, how hard you try is the most important variable.
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=547470 (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=547470)
I'm not quite sure it's just how hard you try that matters. Here's some SCIENCE behind 10 sets of 3 (high load high volume, effectively both as le sausage quotes), recommended in a lot of circles for fat loss but previously has been used for strength.
Secondly, I think the idea of agonist-antagonist muscles is somewhat out dated. We now know that muscles work in synergistic groups. For example, if you do a squat (a quads exrecise), you'll feel your hamstrings working. This is even more relevant in the shoulders and arms, as these joints are so much less structurally stable. This is why doing rings (for example) can be so effective.
Complex exercises are commonly accepted to be far better than isolation for strength. Bench, Squats, Deads, Clean and Jerk, Arnold press, thrusters the list goes on. But then again if you're not careful with selecting your exercises you'll limit the amount of days you can train so it's still worth bearing in mind.
Lee's seen the future and it's shaped like a bell.
As part of our current 'extra curricular'...
I'm intrigued, for climbing?
Where's the OP disappeared to? he's going to get a bit of a shock when he comes back to this...
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I identify my mid term goals(3-4 months off) to form the basis of my training to meet them. This core will then form the basis of my week. In addition to this, in rotations of 4-6 weeks, we focus on a more particular facet. Ie core, weights, campus etc. By changing this focus monthly(ish) but maintaining the meat of the climbing based training I find good 'system shocking' benefits without repetition injuries. The Basis of my training also changes focus approximately monthly depending on upcoming events, starting months in advance with a stamina focus all the way through to boulder/ power focus ending a couple of weeks before an event, then 2 weeks of tie-in where I 'wake-up' the endurance/PE again so that I may unleash when necessary.
Stallion
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that article is very intriguing. my only concern is as usual hypertrophy. is there some stat about weight gain (lean mass) and power gain? it surely seems to work for sprinters, but they haven't to hang on to small holds. this is a big issue, i don't care about doing ten one armers if i can't pull on a crimp.
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YES, here's a short one:
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/vs.htm (http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/vs.htm)
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http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=547470 (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=547470)
I'm not quite sure it's just how hard you try that matters. Here's some SCIENCE behind 10 sets of 3 (high load high volume, effectively both as le sausage quotes), recommended in a lot of circles for fat loss but previously has been used for strength..
That article does completely ignore the hormonal effect on hypertrophy and the fatigue metabolites that are hypothesized to trigger it:
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/100/5/1443 (http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/100/5/1443)
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Slightly confused about that link due to:
From the applied point of view, it is not clear that low-intensity resistance training with restricted flow has any advantage for healthy subjects over more conventional training with higher loads.
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Slightly confused about that link due to:
From the applied point of view, it is not clear that low-intensity resistance training with restricted flow has any advantage for healthy subjects over more conventional training with higher loads.
That quote refers to studies that were done to investigate the effects of ischemia (ie: applying a tourniquet) on muscle hypertrophy. It and other studies identified fatigue as a trigger for hypertrophy even in the absence of heavy loads.
The point is that whilst you shouldn't go to the extreme of applying tourniquets to restrict blood flow and induce fatigue, you should appreciate the effects of fatigue caused by conventional training on hypertrophy. Specifically for climbers isometric contractions have the same effect as a tourniquet in occluding blood flow, so if you were deadhanging for hypertrophy you'd hang for longer durations with shorter rests to induce the same sort of fatigue. There's now research that show that this model of isometric training results in significant hypertrophy.
If you're doing isotonic exercise you can introduce a similar effect by adding an isometric pause into the rep (ie: frenchies).
I also mentioned the hormonal effect but didn't post a link, here's one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15831061?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RR&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15831061?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RR&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed)
The bottom line is that the classic 3 sets of 6-12 reps with short rests is still a proven formula for hypertrophy. Heavy sets similar to the one on T-Nation are still important for max strength/ selective hypertrophy of fast twitch fibres. So a balanced resistance training program should include both, as part of either a linear or non-linear periodization program.
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Cheers, thanks for the explanation.
I'll have a read of the other link tomorrow hopefully.
10 x 3 is recommended with 45 secs rest between sets, which seems a fairly short duration so fits in with your above post as well?
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it says you could go up to 90-120 secs, but still a short rest for power performance. i'm very intrigued, i sent it to the guru as well. i always take long rests when pumping iron to favour the max effort. prolly not perfectly correct, i know. some advice on rests also?
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hmmm i'm recalling the rest from the first article I read...
If I was forced to perform one set of training parameters for the rest of my days, I’d choose the following method:
Sets: 10
Reps: 3
Load: 80-85% of 1RM, or 5-6 RM (Repetition Maximum)
Rest: 60-120 seconds between sets
Tempo: 20X (lower weight to a count of two, no pause, lift as fast as possible)
Exercise: Any compound movement
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Had this discussion out today with Dolph. I've packed on a fair bit of muscle recently through weight training in the gym but primarily from resistance training with weightbelts and sandbags.
Despite feeling a ton stronger, I do feel heavier and am a bit disconcerted by the fact my crimp seems to have diminished from when I weighed less but could lock poor holds without noticing it.
I embarked upon the weight training as a result of not possessing enough power. Now I feel much more powerful but heavy. This probably sounds nonsensical but if you can decipher what I mean, some advice as to my situation would be appreciated.
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you may feel heavier because coming from a power cycle, being stronger and feeling stronger you may put less attention to the foot work.
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I guess that would make sense since you essentially forget about your feet when on a power cycle. I mean don't get me wrong, women love stupid meatheads, and power is nothing without meatheads so it can only be a good thing. Right Lore?
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Had this discussion out today with Dolph. I've packed on a fair bit of muscle recently through weight training in the gym but primarily from resistance training with weightbelts and sandbags.
Despite feeling a ton stronger, I do feel heavier and am a bit disconcerted by the fact my crimp seems to have diminished from when I weighed less but could lock poor holds without noticing it.
I embarked upon the weight training as a result of not possessing enough power. Now I feel much more powerful but heavy. This probably sounds nonsensical but if you can decipher what I mean, some advice as to my situation would be appreciated.
Well if you're on any kind of supps then cut them out as you could be holding a tonne of water in just like Dobbin, although that seems to mainly be flapjack related.
Are you heavier? I mean do you know your morning post toilet trip weight pre and post weights?
I'm guessing a lot of it will be in your head and/or due to you being focussed in one direction and having neglected the crimp (a sorry state of affairs ;) )....
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I need to obtain a set of scales then I guess to check this shit. I'm not on any supplements so I don't think there's a water retention issue at work. I shouldn't complain too much as I do feel a shit load stronger all round and can still pull on small holds. I think it just feels weird for now.
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I need to obtain a set of scales then I guess to check this shit. I'm not on any supplements so I don't think there's a water retention issue at work. I shouldn't complain too much as I do feel a shit load stronger all round and can still pull on small holds. I think it just feels weird for now.
I wouldn't advocate getting too hung up on scales mind you as your weight fluctuates a lot day to day or even hour to hour )or mine seems to), depending on everything from water intake to what I had for dinner last night, toilet breaks you know the drill.
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I've not climbed since thurs and obviously haven't been taking any sorts of supplements, and have immeadiately dropped from 11st6 to 11st3. Soon I will be 8st!
Anyway, I'm all psyched for the gym now!
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Try cutting back on the weights a little, and try one session of 5x5's on the deadlift once a week 3 times a fortnight. Do some bodyweight exercises for your shoulder girdles pressing muscles; raised feet press ups or handstand press ups or whatever you enjoy doing.
I am a big fan of deadlifts as they massively strengthen the body and can be used to add strength without bulking (low reps). It strengthens the entire body and lays a foundation for power/explosiveness. Deadlifts can also be used to bulk up (2 sets of 20 ish reps). 20 reps you say? Yes 20.
5x5 on the deadlift will be more beneficial to most. A note on progression; get some small plates if possible 0.5 kilo-1 kilo, roughly figure out your maximum deadlift for 5 repetitions. So if your maximum for 5 reps of deadlifts is 50 kilo (homme) then begin a fair bit lower at 42 kilo ish. Add weight slowly, a kilogram or 2 a week. So that within the first few weeks you are not at your max. This gives you a head of steam that will prevent you from plateau-ing too soon. So though it seems a slow process of adding 1 kilo or so at a time within 6 months you can reasonably expect your (sickly) 50k maximum to have gone up to 80k.
1 or 2 kilograms a week extra on a major exercise.
This will be a good thing. 8)
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Try cutting back on the weights a little, and try one session of 5x5's on the deadlift once a week 3 times a fortnight.
:-\ Hmm, how does that work out then, a fortnight is only two weeks :-\
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I noticed that but could not edit my post.
It should read once a week or 3 times a fortnight.
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monolith, you will be heavier. you're becoming a man. nobody needs scales, just a mirror. this magnificent device tells you everything you need to know, which is why i always wear a mask when going near it
re the crimp. if you've started to beef you're probably neglecting the crimp a little. i don't think it will be anything to do with your footwork since you can't miss what you never had ;)
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"and that's entertainment folks".
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Leona, wise words as usual. Anytime I'm feeling low, I just look through your recent post history and it brings me right back to life.
re the re crimp, I think you're probably right about neglection. re the footwork, we're drinking from the same vessel arnold. ;)
Anyway, I've heard rings are the new climbing (especially when performed with a female companion at a certain Sheffield indoor venue ;) )
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If you do a ring routine and a girl does not see - it does not count.
Also wearing a top negates the training effect. 8)
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wise words rich
monolith i don't know what nonsense andy's been filling you with now but i use rings on nige's board, on my own. i've done them elsewhere twice. school not included. you've no retort from me about my footwork, shocking
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I couldn't decide which old thread on this topic to resurrect but the title of this one is closest to what I wanted to ask.
I've decided to address some weaknesses with some specific training rather than just fannying around at a wall. So in has come some dead hanging for fingers and now I need to address my pathetically weak arms and shoulders. Two things I want to improve are:
1. My ability to lock off on big holds, ie. climbing on steep ground
2. My ability to hang one armed from an edge, I'm told this is probably as much down to shoulder strength/stability as finger strength.
I would just do some bar work for 1. and one arm hangs for 2. but I can only manage about 10 good style pull ups so it would make for a very short session (by my third set I'm down to about 7 reps). Likewise I need so much assistance to do a one arm hang it seems pointless, I'd like to give myself a weight training boost before doing this.
I'm familiar of the low rep for strength thing and 8 - 12 reps for bulk, however, as I'm likely to injure myself doing relatively high weight I thought I'd stick to higher reps to build up a base (I doubt I'll put on much/any muscle induced weight). So my questions are:
1. Is there any value in doing 8-12 reps as a means to getting stronger or am I wasting my time? Do I have to do high weight low reps to get stronger? I'll still be climbing a couple of times a week to 'recruit' any gains. I'm particularly interested to hear from people who have tried this and have or/have not made strength gains.
2. Can someone suggest about half a dozen excercises I should do to make my arms and shoulders stronger *for climbing*.
3. Any comments on length of session, number of sets, resting duration between sets very welcome.
4. Is targeted weight training an outmoded concept, i.e. do I have to do excercises for the whole body for the arm/shoulder excercises to take effect?
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2. Can someone suggest about half a dozen excercises I should do to make my arms and shoulders stronger *for climbing*.
I had the same problem after I came back from injury a few months ago. Steepish Board-work (I use the moonboard at the boardroom, but any woody will do) really helped with power, lock off strength and yarding through moves. I think this is way more useful and specific than weights for those goals. That being said, I do a once a week weights session (deadlifts, kettlebell swings, shoulder presses) to try and keep my shoulders stable and strong.
I've not really answered your question, sorry! This is just my N = 1 experience.
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I think that starting using a steep board in a more structured way will give you ample gains.
Climb on steep terrain without cutting loose and without dynoing: controlled movement and constant tension.
Also, use the board as a gym, you can do lock offs on good holds and lots of excercises that will give you stronger arms and shoulders without the need of lifting weights.
As far as one arming an edge, well that's a different story, involving very strong fingers and arm and shoulder.
You could try hanging one armed from a pull up bar with engaged shoulder and elbow, as if trying to start a pull up.
Check how it feels and proceed slowly.
But the result is more than the sum of the parts, one arming is quite a complex thing.
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Thanks for the replies. The reason I want to do weights rather the board climbing is because I'd probably be more disciplined with a set weight routine than trying to do lock offs on a board (I'll end up just climbing or soemthig) whereas with a predefined weights routine I can switch my brain off and do it. I can also do it at a local gym and finally it's more measurable and I really need some measurable progress!
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I am on a mission to increase my shoulder strength. I am not particularly focused and so far it consists of:
One arm hangs- Hanging from a jug for 5s per arm repeated a few times. I do this after finishing a problem at the wall that is steep with a jug at the top. I need to warm up for this a good while, but really notice it is really good for the shoulder blade stabilisers as well. It is easy to use the other hand to assist a tiny bit if needed.
Wide pull ups, though not so much pulling up as do a pull up, shoot one arm out to the side and transfer across so your chin is above your hand, keeping level as you do, hold then repeat back to the start position.
This does chin above hand lock off strength and latch a far off hold and stay solid type strength.
Also rows, and explosive max height, one hand off at the top pullups.
Not weights though..
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I am on a mission to increase my shoulder strength. I am not particularly focused and so far it consists of:
One arm hangs- Hanging from a jug for 5s per arm repeated a few times. I do this after finishing a problem at the wall that is steep with a jug at the top.
I did think about this but really I'm just dangling with a straight arm on bone, tendon whatever and not really engaging any muscles so wondered what it was training.
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Rows, deadlifts, maybe shrugs. Core work. Antagonist work (bench / shoulder press, dips).
I've never injured myself doing low reps high weights even at my 1 rep max, but have lots of tweaks from climbing. YMMV.
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Hi Teaboy. I've just finished three months of doing weights for climbing (first time doing weights at all).
I've quite enjoyed it for its sheer physicality and for being quantifiable. As for how effective its been - I'm certainly stronger at lifting weights than I was before, but also at climbing. As for if just climbing would have been superior is hard to tell. My intention was to do it for three months (alongside fingerboarding and climbing) then exclusively boulder / climb on a board when indoors with the hope that the weights would have laid a good foundation of strength for me to then apply / turn into climbing-related power. We'll see.
As for exerises, I did weighted pull ups, dead lift, overhead press (as a generic oppositional / antagonist exercise) and bicep curls (my biceps are the smallest muscle in my body so I wondered if they don't recruit as well as other muscles). If you feel like you're struggling to control your shoulders whilst pulling up, perhaps try scapula pull ups (progressing to one-armed version)?
As for number of reps and sets etc, I based it on this https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/531-how-to-build-pure-strength I suspect that for any hardened weight lifter this wouldn't have enough volume at high intensities, but for a punter like me it seemed to have a nice progression through the weeks without risking injury. It took me about an hour to complete 3 sets of 4 exercises including a warm up and a few hanging leg raises etc at the end.
I'm not sure if I've answered any questions you had, and I didn't read the preceding pages of the thread prior to you resurrecting it so I may have repeated things from there. Anyway, I hope something in there is useful and of course feel free to ask if you have any specific questions about what I did.
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I did think about this but really I'm just dangling with a straight arm on bone, tendon whatever and not really engaging any muscles so wondered what it was training.
This does need to be done with all muscles engaged, shoulder down and other shoulder not totally slumped. I guess the obvious thing is to do it with the other hand offering enough help that you can hold a good position and then over time reduce the help etc..
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I did think about this but really I'm just dangling with a straight arm on bone, tendon whatever and not really engaging any muscles so wondered what it was training.
It was training an injury.
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I've been doing the 5x5 program for about 5 weeks, and am pretty happy with that. There's a great site describing it, just google 5x5. Much of the philosophical approach echoes the t-nation link posted by Reeve, but it's a lot simpler and perhaps better suited to beginners to the lifts (me!).
The workouts I'm doing are:
Workout1: squats 5x5, bench 5x5, deadlifts 3x5, lat pull downs or pull-ups 5x5 (this last added by me).
Workout2: squats 5x5, press (standing barbell shoulder press) 5x5, bent over row (standing w barbell) 5x5.
Main feature is that I started with 20kg Olympic bar only, and add add 2.5kg every session on a given lift (started w 30kg for DL & rows). All 5 sets w the same weight (plus warmup sets on top).
The good thing about this is that at the start it was mostly piss, and I could climb the day after, but at the same time I was subconsciously experimenting w form etc safely. Now some lifts are getting heavier it's nice that I do the lift quite consistently, and I know where my feet go, how much I arch my back (or not), where I look, how I breathe, etc - I can focus on the effort. This seems to echo what t-nation (Wendler) was saying, albeit maybe in a punterish way.
The other thing I like is it's quick and easy to record. Plus seems to be enough to get stronger (from a low base I confess) without exhausting or injuring me.
If you want to get strong enough shoulders for one armers etc I suspect you need strength in all the complex planes of that shallow ball joint, and to me pull-ups + bent over rows + shoulder press + bench press seem to cover pushing and pulling in the main planes of motion possible, plus are all proven and safe.
The squats are controversial in a climbing forum but weight lifters seem to think they're king. I think the hormonal benefits (aged over 40) probably outweighs the risk of treetrunk legs, though I am monitoring this, and my weight. I have noticed that I'm squatting quite deep, due to the light starting weights and the advice on the 5x5 site, at least compared to many I see doing heavy squats with a small range of motion (where their thighs only get halfway to the horizontal).
Am interested to hear what others think of this regime. I'm currently planning another 4-6 weeks of it, combined with mainly aero climbing, as a long base phase. After that I'll gradually transition into fingerboarding and weighted pull-ups instead, maybe doing 3x5 on all the lifts once a week as maintenance.
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This is probably the best bang for buck shoulder excercise I've ever done.
https://youtu.be/0qHUUo3VJ3s
It works the whole range of motion, plus traps, rhomboids, and core.
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:-\ Proto-Functional Pattern exercise? :clown:
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;D
To be a real Functional Patterns excercise, first of all it should be performed barefoot on a Bosu Ball.
Then, at the end of every rotation, you should perform a 360° jump landing half-kneeling and simlultaneously grabbing a 36 kg kettlebell that's been thrown at you by a willing partner, and throwing it back while juggling the plate with the other hand.
That constitues one rep.
It getz you swole bro.
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Thanks all for the replies. It seems like Reeve and Siderunner have both benefited from something similar (albeit with fewer reps) so I'll have a look at both your suggestions (I had a quick look at 5, 3, 1 but I got confused!). Nibs' suggestion for shoulder plate rotations looks the most applicable but with my shoulder mobility I'm worried I'll knock myself out. It also lacks the measurableness (?) I require, it seems hard to add small amounts of wieght or do to failure.
Anyway, I've resisted the urge to go to the wall tonight in favour of dead hanging so hopefully the weights will help with the focus.
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I did think about this but really I'm just dangling with a straight arm on bone, tendon whatever and not really engaging any muscles so wondered what it was training.
It was training an injury.
haha, i was gonna say something similar, along the lines of "finger strength, elbow mobility and shoulder dislocation"
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I would just do some bar work for 1. and one arm hangs for 2. but I can only manage about 10 good style pull ups so it would make for a very short session (by my third set I'm down to about 7 reps). Likewise I need so much assistance to do a one arm hang it seems pointless, I'd like to give myself a weight training boost before doing this.
honestly, read eric horst's "training for climbing (third edition)" and understand about the years of progress it takes most people to progress to one armed anything. i believe eric horst says to progress through to more than 50 percent bodyweight added with good form for any hang before you start one armers.
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A personal best. 140kg (2xBW) ring press-up.
10 reps. I feel a little stoked by this. [emoji56]
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/754/33209031182_0bb83fa10d_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/oldmanmatt/33209031182/)Untitled video (https://www.flickr.com/photos/oldmanmatt/33209031182/) by oldmanmatt (https://www.flickr.com/photos/oldmanmatt/), on Flickr