UKBouldering.com
the site => site notices and updates => Topic started by: shark on October 04, 2011, 11:19:04 pm
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http://www.theclimbinghangar.com/events/womens-climbing-symposium/ (http://www.theclimbinghangar.com/events/womens-climbing-symposium/)
I was invited to attend the debate and Panel discussion for the forthcoming Womens Climbing Symposium which will take place on Saturday Nov 5th.
The debate is on Media Representation: Women in the climbing media, climbing media editors and the media consuming audience get to grips with why women appear as they do in the media, are the audience to blame and what can be done to improve it? There will be pre-prepared questions and the chance for the audience to submit questions online before the event a bit like BBC's Question Time.
I can't make it and Toby will be in Oz. Shauna is keen for UKB to be represented. It would be good if an active UKB member/ moderator took part on the panel and even better be present for the whole day and do a write up. Undoubtedly this would entail explaining/defending DFBWGC. I am assured that Mick Ryan won't be present and for the record Shauna is not personally of the opinion that DFBWGC is misogynist. We would stump up for expenses and maybe other small bribes, lots of karma, hoodie (if there any left)....
Is anybody up for the challenge?
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Undoubtedly this would entail explaining/defending DFBWGC.
Is anybody up for the challenge?
Is full body armour provided? ;D
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surely ypy should be. they seem to be the major contributor on that thread.
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So you're saying there's gonna be tons of hot beatches there then? AWESOME
(I hope I just ruled myself out of contention with that remark)
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Send Dense, winner of the UKB 2011 award for diplomacy and tact. No one is more qualified.
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Is there free Ferrero Rocher?
I nominate Stallioni.
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Sloper
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I second Stallion :coffee:
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Another vote for the Stallion, in fact I think he should be UKB's spokesman on all women's 'issues'.
The Fast Show - Macho Fantastico (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WNxrZRhdPE#)
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I second Stallion :coffee:
Can we choose what he wears ;)
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I second Stallion :coffee:
Can we choose what he wears ;)
Trust me, whatever you picked would be more appropriate than the car crash ensemble he would doubtless come up with himself...
I fourth (or is it fifth?) Stallion
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I can't make it
that's a whopper certain ginger brummies would be proud of! And to think, I was so looking forward to hearing about how a load of angry lesbians feminists (including the Pooch) had lynched you.
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I nominate Stallioni wears this
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/fat_chicks_dig_me_tshirt-235675152790042818 (http://www.zazzle.co.uk/fat_chicks_dig_me_tshirt-235675152790042818)
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I'll have a go on stallion too! is that what we are queuing for? :bounce:
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I'll have a go on stallion too! is that what we are queuing for? :bounce:
A lot of voting of other people rather than volunteering
I would be delighted if Stallioni volunteered - but as the originator of DFBWGC and a Mod you would be eminently qualified.
Has to be a months' worth of blog material in it.
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I nominate Stallioni wears this
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/fat_chicks_dig_me_tshirt-235675152790042818 (http://www.zazzle.co.uk/fat_chicks_dig_me_tshirt-235675152790042818)
Or this?*
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/9/15/1316078509091/Topman-T-shirts-withdrawn-007.jpg) (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/15/topman-tshirts-misogyny-commonplace-mundane)
*please click link if you don't know what this is about
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OK, fair point Shark. I'm actually interested. (honestly)
But sadly...
1. 5th Nov is Hull vs West Ham, so I suspect I'll be entertaining TommyTwoTone in Hull for a few beers after the game....
2. I'm not a mod..
3. I'm too new to this site and certainly dont have the seniority to speak 'on behalf' of UKB
4. I have a string of posts on DFBWGC(1-3) that I'm not especially proud of and would highlight my hypocrasy and general warped sense of humour.. :/ (as well as bad spelling)
So Dobbin it is then ;)
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To be completely honest, i'm not psyched. I get two days off a week and only get to go climbing on half of one of them, so to ask for a full day pass to then use it to go and get a kicking about DFBWGC doesnt sound like good use of time!
Sorry, but for that reason - I'm out.
(http://www.markfairhurst.com/liamfairhurst/images/Duncan_Bannatyne.jpg)
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I'd be up for this, get you loads of brownie points to actually send a bird.........
Sorry, I've got a study weekend I can't miss though. I second Dense ;)
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Magpie?
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Thanks for the offer Shark. However, I would not be the most appropriate person to send. I do not recall any obvious comments which could be levelled against me, but I am sure I have made some sort of comment which will come back to haunt me.
Furthermore, whilst I generally just post what I find (and I do seem to find a fair bit) this will not count in my favour.
Finally, the brief detailed on the Climbing Hangar's website already implies that things such as DFBWGC are automatically undesirable. Discussions are unlikely to be a debate, but more of a one sided argument where people's mind have already been made and they occupy a well entrenched position.
Notwithstanding the above, I think LucyA is probably right by saying that ones opinions will be given more credence if they were to come from a girl/DFBWGC.
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Let's hope they don't read this thread or it'll be exhibit 'A'. :smartass:
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inally, the brief detailed on the Climbing Hangar's website already implies that things such as DFBWGC are automatically undesirable.
It's a reasonable assumption but I am not convinced that can actually be evidenced from the website, or Facebook page? Was there any phrasing in particular you'd spotted?
Apologies, I have just re-checked the Climbing Hangar website and the wording I was referring to was actually in Shark's original post.
"the media consuming audience get to grips with why women appear as they do in the media, are the audience to blame and what can be done to improve it?"
Maybe I am reading into it, but it appears that the words "blame" and "improve" in particular have negative implications, which will automatically set the tone.
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Dicks.
I'm afraid that for the whole of November I am on the American leg of a World tour with the Saturday's, subject to a couple* of minor sticking points. Both Una and Frankie have requested** my presence and I feel I would be letting them down by having to make it back to the UK for a Saturday, pardon the pun, which is one of the busiest nights in the sphere of popular musical entertainment. A tourbus doesn't run itself you know, shower cubicals need to be kept well-stocked with easy-to-lather soaps and fresh underwear must be readily available.
*I simply require a positive response from the Tour Manager to at least one of my emails, and the virtually guaranteed go-ahead from the girls themselves( and then I guess some airline tickets and shit like that)
**I imagine.
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Let's hope they don't read this thread or it'll be exhibit 'A'. :smartass:
Judge: Mr. Hutz w've been in here for four hours. Do you have any evidence at all?
Hutz: Well, Your Honor. We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fhrIygqNlzE/Tbr8jbat0yI/AAAAAAAAACA/ycrNYeHlOiU/s1600/lionel+hutz.jpg)
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:lol:
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The lucky ambassador:
(http://www.jaysromanhistory.com/romeweb/christns/chrslion.jpg)
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(http://boards.420chan.org/kinky/src/1314041730424.gif)
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Were I not an absolute punter I'd happily represent the forum.
Second thoughts, having seen this:
Sponsors: The BMC, 5.10, MuleBar, UKC
fuck that. It'll be a bloodbath.
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UKB boys deal with the ladies, only to be ambushed by Rab on the way out.
Boondock Saints (fire fight sceen) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff5DlpZiMZ0#)
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Magpie?
I'm a bit far away, and I'm not sure how well I'd fair being thrown to the lions trying to defend the DFBWGC anyway. :lol:
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We would stump up for expenses
You could travel by learjet?
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Magpie?
I'm a bit far away, and I'm not sure how well I'd fair being thrown to the lions trying to defend the DFBWGC anyway. :lol:
you could defer the question talking about DFblokes and pretty much exclusively for magpie. you could even take big photos of kitty's :wub: to show as an example ..
plus think of the benefit package
We would stump up for expenses and maybe other small bribes, lots of karma, hoodie (if there any left)....
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you could defer the question talking about DFblokes and pretty much exclusively for magpie. you could even take big photos of kitty's :wub: to show as an example ..
:lol: Yes, I'm sure that would cut it.
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Also, it might help if the ambassador had done some actual climbing recently. :-[
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We would stump up for expenses
You could travel by leer jet?
Seems appropriate
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Also, it might help if the ambassador had done some actual climbing recently. :-[
its fine the event is sponsored by UKC over 50% wont have climbed at least in a few years ;)
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I could go... Maybe not for the full day but could certainly make an appearance and be heckled on behalf of the UKB massif! Does it matter that I've known Shauna for years and have been consulted in the run up to the event? On second thoughts that could be an assett!
Whatever, the offer stands...
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ITS A TRAP! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVnArp9ZE0#ws)
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Thanks to Fatneck and two other locals who have pm'ed one way or another I think we should be sorted :2thumbsup:
Cheers, Simon
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Is there going to be a webcast of this, could make for some interesting viewing given the crappy forecast for the weekend.
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Is there going to be a webcast of this, could make for some interesting viewing given the crappy forecast for the weekend.
It's not till Saturday Nov 5th. Cornice is likely to be bone dry. Also I'm sure your help would be welcomed at the Trackside restoration tomorrow (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,18719.msg334151.html#msg334151) if you are at a loose end ;D
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Fatneck, Mills and Crouch?
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Fatneck, Mills and Crouch?
We don't need a firm of solicitors yet - but thanks for the recommendation
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Fatneck, Mills and Crouch?
Wot no Dense?
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Ey ey lid, youse need to sue some geezer because you sliced yerself on his car window when youse were robbing his car radio? Then gis Fatneck, Mills and Crouch solicitors a call on 0800-calm-down-calm-down.
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OK, I got the Golden Ticket/drew the short straw. Any and all input gladly ignored.
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Shall I bump the dead fit blokes thread so you can use it as an example of how equal opportunities we are around these parts? ;)
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http://www.theclimbinghangar.com/events/womens-climbing-symposium/ (http://www.theclimbinghangar.com/events/womens-climbing-symposium/)
Undoubtedly this would entail explaining/defending DFBWGC. I am assured that Mick Ryan won't be present and for the record Shauna is not personally of the opinion that DFBWGC is misogynist.
My 6 year old daughter, scans the DFBWGC thread often (with Daddy's supervision, ahhemm). Very few of the jokes are too explicit (and a little rapid scrolling deals with those). She finds it inspiring, to see so many, different, girls; climbing hard.
It's hard to find such a extensive photo collection on that topic.
I told her DFBWGC stood for "Defo, Fantastic, Beautiful, Wonderful, Girl Climbers"...
And really, are the cracks much worse than the cracks made at shirtless male climbers, or those with dodgy ensembles...
I'm too junior and too caught up in other things, to volunteer.
But even my Missus doesn't see it needs much defending...
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OK, I got the Golden Ticket/drew the short straw. Any and all input gladly ignored.
The insect overlords are to be congratulated on a wise choice of representation I think. Don't forget your flak jacket.... :ninja:
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OK, I got the Golden Ticket/drew the short straw. Any and all input gladly ignored.
I think the words "celebration of the female form" are often used in the art world.
Be sure to take a camera to get pics of any fit birds :)
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Get a life-size print out of these and pretend to be Sharma
(http://ladzinski.com/images/sharma-splash-1.jpg)
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Odd Sharma pic, has he just let rip with short ripping projectile diarrhea?
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Nah, that's shallow water soloing, that is....
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Further clarification of previous:
SWS
1. Stand in ankle deep water.
2. Look at rock face.
3. Say very loudly "Some idiot's gonna try that one day"...
4. Go to bar.
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For a level playing field, the discussion should really be filmed and, of course, carried out using the medium of Jelly (http://lh3.ggpht.com/-vAGZ_hpFx0E/SN2TfwMbONE/AAAAAAAAA1s/MpIvg3ep_0A/200208JellyWrestling.jpg)
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Do not pretend to be Sharma he is shit at speaking in public and put me off him for life in about 5 minutes, you do not want to do that to all the ladies who you are there to convince. :))
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Do not pretend to be Sharma he is shit at speaking in public and put me off him for life in about 5 minutes, you do not want to do that to all the ladies who you are there to convince. :))
There in lies the beauty of the plan.
Based on Andy's postings here I'd imagine him to be an erudite and loquacious orrator.
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Take a box of Ferrero Rocher
Ferrero Rocher: "The Ambassador's Party" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P-nZZkQqTc#)?
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Let this be your role model.
(http://bp2.blogger.com/_7Xpdy1zR5aI/Rx9JKWyYI2I/AAAAAAAAAzM/0cmgr8cNxoQ/s400/lespatterson.jpg)
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Let this be your role model.
(http://bp2.blogger.com/_7Xpdy1zR5aI/Rx9JKWyYI2I/AAAAAAAAAzM/0cmgr8cNxoQ/s400/lespatterson.jpg)
I'm pretty sure thats not Liam Fox, or Hague, but is Cameroon?
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With all this great advice how can I fail!
Do not pretend to be Sharma he is shit at speaking in public and put me off him for life in about 5 minutes, you do not want to do that to all the ladies who you are there to convince. :))
There in lies the beauty of the plan.
Based on Andy's postings here I'd imagine him to be an erudite and loquacious orrator.
Less politely, "maybe if he talks enough no-one else will be able to get a word in."
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Ahh yes, baffle them with psychobabble. Maybe one of those logic equations?
Or if that fails, fall back on:
(http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-555.png)
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The wife (or bitch if it helps for quotes in front of the inquisition) says if she was a climber she'd be gutted if she wasn't in dfbwgc indeed she was a little miffed that a photo of her bumbling about at burbage south on UKC didn't get posted on the thread.
She thinks the thread is harmless, sometimes funny and sometimes a bit juvenile.
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Do not pretend to be Sharma he is shit at speaking in public and put me off him for life in about 5 minutes, you do not want to do that to all the ladies who you are there to convince. :))
Cheech and Chong meets dude, where's my car?
Dude! Sweet! Dude!....etc.
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OK, I got the Golden Ticket/drew the short straw. Any and all input gladly ignored.
Thanks again for stepping up to the plate.
Not climbing but a great example/role model of a woman working towards an athletic achievement and looking great - form following function - and what I think DFBWGC is (or should be) about:
Overhead Squat - Bodyweight x 15 reps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjuULPqI-WY#)
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Fuck me, that video is impressive.
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Fuck me, that video is impressive.
You should check out the diet, training and injuries board more often ;)
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The moral of the story being that wearing less clothes brings more success :D
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Posting the flyer for the event(*) on the DFB thread would be tactless, right? Although it *definitely* belongs there.
(*) which I just saw on ukc
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Latest word on this event is that the panel discussion has been cancelled. But thanks again to Andy for volunteering.
They clearly bottled it in the face of the intellectual fire-power UKB were deploying ( ;) )
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Or everyone realised it was a total waste of time and didn't make any sense to start with?
(No disrespect to Mr Popp of course of whom I have the upmost respect)
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Call me perverse but I was quite looking forward to it really.
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I thougt you might be. A chance to display your rapier intellect to some DFBs
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I thougt you might be. A chance to display your rapier intellect to some DFBs
Alex would have totally fallen in love and dumped that weedy Chris Webb Parsons forever.
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Alex would have totally fallen in love and dumped that weedy Chris Webb Parsons forever.
Yeah, what the f*ck has he done at Pex?
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Send in the Popp! Great choice, no nicer man could you meet.
Richie and Si are also lovely men with a deep respect for women and seminal diplomats and if not used on the frontline would perhaps make excellent bench material? I'd have helped too and brought my newly-started-climbing girlfriend along but I don't want her to end up as fodder for some seedy little Thai island gap jah climber browsing that ghastly thread on his IBerry. Plus I'm shit, bang the same drum all the time and rarely do anything other than project these days. Hope it's a lovely day for yall!
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Posting the flyer for the event(*) on the DFB thread would be tactless, right? Although it *definitely* belongs there.
(*) which I just saw on ukc
I had the same thought, but decided against it
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So, did anyone go? I'd be interested to hear how the day went, and the issues discussed, even if the panel discussion was binned. Hazel's thoughts are on the BMC site here (http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4535), and Shauna's got some stuff on the hangars site here (http://www.theclimbinghangar.com/wmns-symposium/), but I can't find any post match reports.
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hmmm, was trying to ignore that last line
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true, true.
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Yes in fact the last line seems completely incongruous to the rest of the piece.
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Maybe it's because I'm a bloke, but I'm just not sure I see the issue...
I've never bought a climbing mag because it had a girl on the cover. My daughter spends more time looking at the girls on DFBWGC. My wife (who's about as non-trad as female could be (she'd lay you out if suggested she wasn't your equal)), read that and said "what's she on about?" and laughed when I explained.
Maybe someone can explain or give me a serious example of objectification in the climbing world (most men on the cover of climbing mags don't seem to wearing much and the Mrs is alway saying "phwoar, nice buns!" over my shoulder when I'm reading).
And having to once sit through an evening, listening to a group of women disscussing Sharma's finner points (none of which were climbing related), I often feel; the pot is giving the kettle a hard time again...
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I think you're right and I think that that is basically the conclusion that Shauna's thing comes to (apart from perhaps incorrectly thinking that more debate and thought on the matter is needed!).
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I mostly agree with you, but perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way. I read Hazels piece on the BMC website (shameless plug) and it really opened my mind to what it might be like on the "other side" as a climber. I can remember when Lynn Hill freed the Nose, you'd hear a few blokes say "of course the crux is easier for her, she's got small fingers", which denigrates her achievement. Rather, say the second ascensionists found it a grade harder - she climbed it first so her ascent IS the benchmark. I think thats an example of the subtle but insidous sort of thing female climbers come up against. Anway, back to my scrot mags :P
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I mostly agree with you, but perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way. I read Hazels piece on the BMC website (shameless plug) and it really opened my mind to what it might be like on the "other side" as a climber. I can remember when Lynn Hill freed the Nose, you'd hear a few blokes say "of course the crux is easier for her, she's got small fingers", which denigrates her achievement. Rather, say the second ascensionists found it a grade harder - she climbed it first so her ascent IS the benchmark. I think thats an example of the subtle but insidous sort of thing female climbers come up against. Anway, back to my scrot mags :P
Hhmm...
I see the point.
But,
the small fingers comment is not a million hand jambs away from a recent "light rack" incident...
Sour grapes.
If there are 99 male climbers, on the crag (struggling on the low 6's) and a girl rocks up and flashes the 8a down the end as a warm up and one of the blokes says "ah, it's just 'cos shes' light".
The rest mutter "damn, shes' good (I wonder if she's got a boyfriend)", under their breath...
Does that make us all sexist?
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Hang on...
I'm debating this.
On the premise.
That this is not worth debating.
Thereby, negating my own argument.
Reason number 49999003, for not posting on-line after more than three glasses of wine...
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If there are 99 male climbers, on the crag (struggling on the low 6's) and a girl rocks up and flashes the 8a down the end as a warm up and one of the blokes says "ah, it's just 'cos shes' light".
It was my wife who, when I told her about a one-arm lockoff contest at the end of a bouldering comp in which two members of the German ladies' team posted times that none of the boys came close to, said "well they weigh half as much don't they?"
Self disabling habits and behaviours –A mini lecture exposing and analysing these universal habits by Vikki Cassell and coaching on how to work on them to reduce their impact.
When will this be online? Sounds like something everybody needs to listen to.
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I mostly agree with you, but perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way. I read Hazels piece on the BMC website (shameless plug) and it really opened my mind to what it might be like on the "other side" as a climber. I can remember when Lynn Hill freed the Nose, you'd hear a few blokes say "of course the crux is easier for her, she's got small fingers", which denigrates her achievement. Rather, say the second ascensionists found it a grade harder - she climbed it first so her ascent IS the benchmark. I think thats an example of the subtle but insidous sort of thing female climbers come up against. Anway, back to my scrot mags :P
Or everyone comes up against? Its hard to read a thread (not on here) where someone doesn't give a backhanded compliment or some reason to make light of an ascent. Its hardly an issue based solely around gender.
Ditto with the rest on the route at Rodellar, I'm sure I could find you a bloke who can't reach it either and if the one legged climber featuring on the Dark Horse blog graded everything, sure grades would be different. "Morphology in affecting difficulty shocker"...
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Ditto with the rest on the route at Rodellar, I'm sure I could find you a bloke who can't reach it either and if the one legged climber featuring on the Dark Horse blog graded everything, sure grades would be different. "Morphology in affecting difficulty shocker"...
This rest is a bit silly anyway, it is quite a traverse to get to it and getting back in to the route is tricky. I'm not even sure that many people use it do they? I certainly didn't, and I don't think the other people (including 5'nothing" Polish women > 6'4" Norwegian bloke and everyone in between) who were trying it at the same time did either....?
I actually think the 'normal' rest would suit a small bloke/petite female better than most anyway....
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Its hard to read a thread (not on here) where someone doesn't give a backhanded compliment or some reason to make light of an ascent.
Was that self referential ;D