UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => bouldering => Topic started by: tim palmer on November 05, 2008, 12:59:34 pm
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Have they reset the comp wall recently?
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there were a few extra problems added recently but no I don't think so.
They have a big comp coming up so maybe it'll see a reset around then? I think a few of the circuits are coming down shortly as well.
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We're resetting the comp wall next Thursday/Friday in preparation for round one of our bouldering league on Friday night (14th Nov). We've had a busy month or so, so we've not reset the comp wall for nearly 5 weeks :o - most of this due to the fact that I have been 'enjoying' the sights and sounds of Moscow (setting a comp) for the last 15 days. There will be a new hard circuit set in the next week or so too - the yellow circuit is being replaced with another one of similar difficulty (ie: hard)
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can I make a request: that times when parts of the wall are going to be closed for setting be put on the website? just so if you're coming hell bent on a curcuit or a comp wall session you're not wasting your time etc. cheers
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Didn’t realise there was a works thread but seeing as Percy is an avid Ukbouldering viewer just wanted to raise something.
Basically it’s a few frustrating things about the training board that unless you actually tell anyone things are unlikely to get done.
The up problems on this board are great but now they’ve been up for a year or so they are so filthy they are just unpleasant to climb. Because it’s not to steep and the holds tend to be v. small this makes a big problem. Basically either the problems need to be cleaned and re-set (thereby keeping the original problems) or a new set problems put up (keep em dirty fingery as it’s the only chance I get to burn off the young guns). The regulars don’t really do too many eliminates so I don’t think this will destroy 1000’s of quality problems.
Circuits, circuits bloody circuits. I am fed up of people spending 10/20mins circling the board on jugs when I want a few 20s goes. There are far too many circuits on the board which not only get in the way of the up problems but in the main are so easy anybody and everybody climbs on them. Now I don’t want to be accused of being elitist but 3 circuits should be enough (1 hard, 8b/c ish, 1med, 8aish, 1 easy, 7bish).
Basically this board doesn’t know what it wants to be. For me there are half a dozen circuits in the facility so why do we need loads of them on the training board. Last year it was fun, new etc but now it needs rejuvenating.
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i would second arthur on the above point. the existing up-problems are great, but we need more of them on the board, scrap most of the circuits. also more random holds in general for eliminates. also make the topo a bit easier to use - its a nightmare at present, and the photo-topo is a bit non-plus because the wall is painted in a very dark busy paintjob, which means you can't really make out what is what on the topo (why a training board needs painting at all is beyond me, or at least paint it a uniform white/grey).
or to put it another way, do you want everyone to think the foundry has got the best training board? cos right now it has.
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From another point of view (a stamina trad/sport lover), the circuits on the training board are the only reason I ever go to the works rather than the foundry...
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Though I'd advocate turning the training board into a no-circuits-zone and making the entire leaning wall left of it purely contain lots of circuits, all involving lots of up-down-up stuff.. I doubt that's likely though.
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It's a good suggestion and I guess could the works do without the 3/4 problems per circuit that this bit of wall offers. 40 off problem circuits down 3/4 problems? I totally appreciate that there are lots of people focussing on endurance and that this type of training is vital to them.
Maybe it could be tested?
In the past when I've made suggestions to Sam/Percy they've been v.receptive as they seem v. consumer focussed.
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:agree: with Andy 100%.
Funny, I mentioned exactly the same points in an email ealier today.
The circuits have ruined the training board. Some of the harder problems are virtually impossible now because of the number of massive fuck off jugs in the way. If they aren't in the way of the handholds so you can't actually get to them then you either smash your knees on them when making foot movements or crack your elbows on them trying to throw for an edge etc.
The fact that there are all these easy circuits also means that there are loads of people standing all over the small handholds so they are not only caked in chalk but covered in rubber. This means that even if you can get to the holds, it's fucking unpleasant trying to use them. I got totally sick of falling off because my fingers were snapping off the frictionless greasy holds.
Unlike Andy I don't mind being accused of being elitist on this one and I'm not even strong. The only reason I've not mentioned anything before is that I assumed it was only me who was annoyed!
The training board was really useful for me last winter, I loved it. But now it's been completely spoiled and I'm pissed off. There is enough easy climbing at The Works for one little bit of the wall to be kept as a proper training board with a good set of hard up problems and, as Andy says, a couple of circuits for the stamina louts. The kids and punters have plenty to go at, let's have a few feet of dirty crimpiness for the not quite so crap. Please.
In the past when I've made suggestions to Sam/Percy they've been v.receptive as they seem v. consumer focussed.
This is true. As I say I don't want to sound like a whinging twat as I've not mentioned it to them directly.
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I don't think it would be a good idea to put cicuits on the wall to the left of the training board - it's not steep enough and people would hang on for ever. It's also one of the most realistic angles when thinking about the other boards on the circuits. I know Sam cleaned the training board holds mid summer and it is soley down to overuse that the holds are once again minging, goes hand in hand with its popularity I'm afraid! I am with you on the quantity of circuits and agree that 3 would be enough. I don't think putting random holds back onto the wall is a good idea, this is how it used to be and the board didn't get used a great deal. I would say focus on high quality dirty problems. Keep 4 or 5 defacto problems at say 7b, 7b+, 7c, 7c+ and 8a which remain constant and keep updating say another 10-15 problems every 4 months or so.
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Spot on Neil.
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the old board with random holds was actually quite good - i think the main reason it got neglected was because everyone was caught up with the novelty of circuits at that time (i.e. when the wall was new), and even after resetting, last winter still the proportion of people using that bit of wall was FUCK ALL in the grand scheme of things, even on the busiest of nights. to me this is a pluss point!
if there were added a few more defacto problems then the need for extra random holds would be diminished, granted, assuming the hold spread was even enough. still even now when trying to set your own shit on there you come across areas with no holds, or all the same type of hold. bearing in mind that of the entire 1000m² or whatever of climbing surface, theres only this small section that is in any way suitable for setting your own shit. the hold density on the comp wall is rarely sufficient, for example, so you've only got the board bit. I like having the set problems there but there must be a happy medium, i.e. benchmarks to aim at but still enough freedom to improvise.
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Sorry Dave but I disagree. I didn't like the old setup - too many big holds to clatter your knuckles on and too many holds in general making it very confusing. Also with the amount of traffic we are talking about it would be virtually impossible to keep taking the holds off clean them and put them back in the same place. I also think the circuits are very important, it is still the best way of training power endurance and the angle of the board lends itself perfectly to that purpose. In addition don't forget that a lot of people train during the day so don't judge it's use by what you see in the evening. In terms of making your own problems, this was certainly still possible prior to the big trimming down over the summer and I believe if they take down a couple of cicuits and put more up problems back on the board then we will be back to a happy medium.
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I shall speak with Sam as to what we shall do, as this board is his baby really. Personally, my temptation would be to strip the whole board, then reset 3 circuits and fill the rest of the board with colour coded up problems from hard to the living end, and to reset once a year to keep it fresh - the emphasis for everything being quality as well as sheer difficulty. Its true that the board is a small part of the overall wall area, and so we can maybe afford to make everything on it hard for the hardcore training types... As ever, we take everyones thoughts and ideas on board, so any more suggestions are always welcome. Within reason, of course..... ;)
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As ever, we take everyones thoughts and ideas on board
nice punning.
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Nice one Percy. For me your idea sounds ideal. :thumbsup:
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Personally, my temptation would be to strip the whole board, then reset 3 circuits and fill the rest of the board with colour coded up problems from hard to the living end, and to reset once a year to keep it fresh - the emphasis for everything being quality as well as sheer difficulty.
This sounds ideal to me
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and me. however can you make some almost identical to a ladder with painful holds so that only a few venture their eyes upon them
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The circuits on that board are also the only reason I would visit The Works instead of the Foundry - even the easier ones are good to have for the super dedicated stamina-pony to link harder circuits. It's much better for stamina/power endurance than routes anywhere else as you've no wasted time belaying partners/tying ropes on, just drinking coffee and reading old magazines instead! Sounds as if there needs to be two training boards! The wall to the left I would have thought would be ok for circuits (is it around 20 degrees?) - just need to make it fingery enough, no?
Al
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I like doing the "routes" circuits on that board
They're too hard for me - but some people like the up problems
it seems to me...
what we need is a routes/circuit board and a seperate training up problems board!
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I don't use the training board but from what I've seen I support the idea that it should be specifically tailored to what the hardcore training boys want, for the obvious reasons.
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Agree with you Neil that school style (ie/ loads of holds) just didn't work on this board. If people want to make eliminate stuff up on the set problems they will.
You say the holds were removed and cleaned mid summer? Do you mean removed, powerwashed & reset or just scrubbed hard with a wire brush? They really are hideous now.
It's a good idea to have some benchmark standards say up to 8a/+ and then change the othehr stuff but less regulalry than the comp wall (3months + seems enough time for people to do, get wired and then have new stuff before they get too familiar.
Sounds like people are broadly in the same agreement so let's see what Sam thinks.
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With route circuits of say sport grade 7b/+, 7c/+ and 8a/+?
Regards said circuits, IMO it’s vastly preferable to have them using footholds of the same colour. I hate having to work out if something is a screw-on or not mid-crux!
Here’s another one whilst we’re on a wishlist mission. Even with a quick turnover of probs on the comp wall, a lot of users rapidly reach a point where they have done everything they feasibly can. At the Foundry and The Edge this wasn’t so much of a problem as you could go back and do the same problems a second time, this time only using features for feet and sometimes a third time just using bolt-ons for feet. In an ideal world I’d love it if a smattering of pretty shit foothold resin features (or even painted over screw-ons) were added across the steep bits of the comp wall. I know this would also please the shorties no end, who often complain about holds being out of reach and a lack of intermediate footers. Failing that it would be good if problems were set with a mind to maximum recyclability i.e. maybe with smaller holds closer together and more intermediate footholds.
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In an ideal world I’d love it if a smattering of pretty shit foothold resin features (or even painted over screw-ons) were added across the steep bits of the comp wall. I know this would also please the shorties no end, who often complain about holds being out of reach and a lack of intermediate footers.
Totally agree with this.
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Basically this board doesn’t know what it wants to be. For me there are half a dozen circuits in the facility so why do we need loads of them on the training board. Last year it was fun, new etc but now it needs rejuvenating.
Spot on Andy, I've also found it to be slightly frustrating that upon each permuation of the board things get messed around. The last effort was meant to be fixed problems so I worked a load of my own out after stagnating on the set problems. Some of these holds were then removed to de-clutter the wall breaking the vast majority of them. If its a fixed board it HAS to be fixed. That means that twisting a hold for a team training day etc. is an offence worthy of being castrated.
I shall speak with Sam as to what we shall do, as this board is his baby really. Personally, my temptation would be to strip the whole board, then reset 3 circuits and fill the rest of the board with colour coded up problems from hard to the living end, and to reset once a year to keep it fresh - the emphasis for everything being quality as well as sheer difficulty. Its true that the board is a small part of the overall wall area, and so we can maybe afford to make everything on it hard for the hardcore training types... As ever, we take everyones thoughts and ideas on board, so any more suggestions are always welcome. Within reason, of course..... ;)
Hopefully this doesnt come across as rude:
Personally I think this is a very bad idea. Whilst I enjoy the problems you set at your wall (more so now than previously) I've always felt that the training style problems and top end problems that you offer have been the worst of the bunch. This happened in the woodie (MK 3) and it wasn't as good as the previous set up. Weird holds, trick moves etc. have absolutely zero value when training and to be honest there aren't that many problems that don't feature some kind of trickery or weirdness at your wall. I'd be really psyched if I was expecting a load of proper board style problems on which to get strong but frankly I can't see it turning out quite like that. Some hard problems were set on the comp wall when it was still green after previous moaning and they didn't get done because they were just plain daft. The top and bottom halves were easy but the middle had a move in it that clearly hadn't been done by anyone and was the living end x 2.
Now I always get accused of beating the school drum but its problems like that, that allow people to become strong and I haven't seen very many problems that offer that style of climbing since the works opened, one or two maybe but not many. Last time the board was reset I did offer to take anyone willing up the road to make my point.
Re-jigging the board is all well and good but at the end of the day I think its quite obvious that this board is in no mans land for good. Something else would make for a better training board. 30's are all well and good for the fingers but you can't climb like that all the time IMO especially not to that level of dirtiness
I've always felt like the works has never quite delivered on the training side of things compared to the initial plans which is a bit disapointing as it could have been perfection. Obviously, looking at the popularity of the place everything else is bang on.
Oh and if possible can you squeeze a couple more problems onto the comp wall, i'm sure there's room :-[
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this place is amazing!
saw it in a stone circles article in Climer and it is awesome!
:off: i know
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Jon, your idea of small feature fooholds is great but I wonder how that would work with the modern comp style of the works. Lots of heels, kneebars etc could make even easy problems impossible on little nubs. I guess it would be hard to set problems that work both ways? Then again if anyone can make that work it's Percy. Maybe a tester selection of nubs on 1 section of the boards to try the idea out.
I know where you're coming from Paul. Since the SChool closed we're (or at least thse of us lucky to be memebers) short of steep powerfull climbing. Whilst I like the dirt and am happy to mix it up with the foundry & outside etc Sheff is lacking some steep terrain.
So now it's up to Pecy, Sam et al and they know where to come for more honest feedbak or to test out some ideas. I'm off to Belize tomorrow for 3 weeks so try to have it sorted by the time I get back ;)
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I don't think it would be a good idea to put cicuits on the wall to the left of the training board - it's not steep enough and people would hang on for ever. .
Sounds like perfect training for british trad onsighting to me ;D nice small crimps and pockets on 60 move circuits... Or make a new 50 degree board for the problems and have the current one all for circuits.. failing that, circuits of 7b, 7c, 8a, 8hard but no others sounds cool.
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If the works want a premade board (3 ply sheets high) then both Ned and I will be happy to donate one of the most maticulous ones in england (symmetry with hand crafted hardwood holds) free of charge sometime around februaryish (or before if needs be), it'd have to be 50 degrees though or it'd be an insult.
Surely this could be done by incorporating it into the RH end of the current board? this way i might actually bother to leave my house to train somewhere on something designed to keep anyone climbing less than font 8c's feet on the ground, all the sheffield walls top out at font 8aish and it'd be nice to feel like someone's caring for cellar dwellers who count a good session as having done a single problem or even a single move.
Whats happening with the School boards? surely the works and the school boards should go together like a burger van and footy stadium?
why not blend 2 styles of training (sheffield boards & Works) and have a facility that you need never leave from font 4-8c surely this can only gain revenue? it'd certainly give alot of respect to the Works and probably produce alot more bouldering talent in the future as top end problems would be visible as soon as you walk in the door. If i could have seen someone crushing Pinky perky when i'd started bimbling around climbing walls then it'd have educated me as to what is actually possible one day if i really want to try that hard. rather than mucking about jumping between jugs and volumes, which despite being great fun is probably not the most efficient way of improving evening after evening.
just a silly idea anyway.
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I've often looked into the empty section of building just before the works in that courtyard as I've biked in.. how about turning it into a new uber-venue with this section having the old school boards, the ned/dan board and a some badass PE and stamina circuits. A bit more of a hassle than just taking some circuits off the current board though!
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Whats happening with the School boards? surely the works and the school boards should go together like a burger van and footy stadium?
They're effectively in storage. They struggle to stay in one piece with the limited traffic they had previously, if you put them in the works they'd just drop to bits. You'd also have to re-write the guide as the current names aren't exactly what you'd call child friendly. :P
If I had the luxury of a cellar or regular access to somewhere else then I wouldn't really mind but sheffield is now lacking somewhere to get streng and that seems wrong!
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Staying on a Climbing Works tip but going slightly away from the training board debates (worthy as they are) just a couple of quick points from a trip there yesterday:
1) I know that there is always space issues at a wall and there is a balance to be struck between having too few nicely spread out problems and too many crammed in problems, a balance that the Works seems to get pretty much right IMHO. However when creating a problem that involves jumping to a hold (not thinking of any yellow bum shaped hold in particular) please try and avoid putting other holds right next to the target hold but hidden from view from the take-off point. I've got a bruised nail right now, and that aint nice. Just a small point.
2) Now this is far more important. Can you please please please ensure that Percy's dog is always at the wall when I'm there with my son. The dog kept At Work Jnr entertained for ages and after she had departed the boy spent the entire rest of the day looking for her.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these matters....
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i find the works good fun and the following points are very subjective.
1 comp wall problems are very 'tricky' and once learnt have limited training benefit. ie big moves to big holds and wierd heels. my knees don't like it.
2 grade jump - lots of 6 s and low 7s then top end 7 and 8. where are the mid 7s? more different style 8s. there are enough climbers in sheffield who climb at this standard to make it worthwhile.
3 massive holds. rock climbs in my experience have small holds. i know this is the comp wall and i guess you need to set some comp style problems on it but some steep hueco/rmnp/swizz/ style probs would be great.
all the best, ben
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Jon, your idea of small feature fooholds is great but I wonder how that would work with the modern comp style of the works. Lots of heels, kneebars etc could make even easy problems impossible on little nubs. I guess it would be hard to set problems that work both ways? Then again if anyone can make that work it's Percy. Maybe a tester selection of nubs on 1 section of the boards to try the idea out.
I appreciate that the nubbin idea could make the job of comp setting a fraction more tricky, but if done right and sparingly they shouldn't offer oportunities for kneebars/or heel-toes, just a few body tensiony footholds on the steepness is all that’s needed.
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Sorry Jon, wasn't making myself clear enough. My comment was about: with small features even the easy "comp style" problems could be impossible as this style vs say the foundry is very dependant on heels, kneebars etc which could be v.tricky on nubs. The problems would need to be a lot more basic for this to work in the main. Take for example pretty mcuh all the problems on the steeper right hand section. They are so leg, heel intensive I struggle to see them being doable on nubs. Even that black 7a up the middle would be next to impossible on little edges? BVut I guess some stuff would be possible / good training and that's what we're after.
Somehow the Foundry features work perfectly for pretty much any problem ever set on the wall to be climbed with or without them.
I guess though that they don't have to be perfect for everything but just a handful of problems on the circuit
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whilst i agree that there should be more basic stuff, pulling on holds that resemble holds outside, and less heels and knee bars. i don't agree with peoples basic views that circuits on the training wall begin at 7b. this is a very elitist statement. i don't climb on these so couldn't care less what happens to the circuits. however i know quite a few people who, for reasons best known to them, enjoy this type of climbing and is the reason they visit.
i don't really think jons little resin idea would work well. firstly they'd have to scrub that mural off. i really do hope they're some sort of tax fiddle and you don't actually think they look good percy :whistle:
just read andy's post, i had assumed the nubbins were for the training wall and not the comp wall
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This is excellent consultancy you're all providing and I imagine Percy to be hunched over his keyboard furiously, erm, anyway, I agree with almost all that has been said, and I think many useful comments have been made. I really like the comp wall, its a spectacle to behold, but climbing on it, and climbing outside have become mutually exclusive. It no longer bears any resemblance to outdoor climbing, but that is how comps are. So fair enough, if the comp wall is to be like comps then set like comps it should be, or at least partly... By all means keep creating the multi volumed madness - they are great fun to climb on, but they're not gonna get me up anything outside, so can we also have some good old fashioned basicness too?
As mentioned above, dirty holds and angle are two issues with the training board. I climbed on it yesterday, and I had fun - for about half an hour before dispairingly moving on to circuits as some of the problems were probably impossible due to boot rubber dirt. Linking me to another point -there is plenty of space for punters to get fit and do longer stamina problems - I dont think theres case for <7b circuits on the training wall. The painting of that wall doesnt help when you look down to spot a foot hold, I would get rid of it.
Finally, the reason I idolise the comp wall is because of the angle. But as I have said above, the climbing is too knacky for training benefit. You fall off through incompetence not weakness.
If you get Dan and Ned's board I will move in. I love that board.
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Lots of people seem to dislike the murial of the training wall as it obfuscates smaller footholds.
This is often a problem when climbing outside (holds aren't clearly visible), so man up and get on with it, :P (And don't use donkey ticks either)
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i don't really think jons little resin idea would work well. firstly they'd have to scrub that mural off....
just read andy's post, i had assumed the nubbins were for the training wall and not the comp wall
I wasn't suggesting resins footers on the training board, I was suggesting it for the steep bits of the comp wall. Why would it not work? It works at the Foundry and elsewhere. I'd have thought everyones a winner if the staff can set one problem and the user gets to climb it two to three different ways. They get to do less setting, we get to do more climbing.
Regards Andy's point about things being too hard on just features, i don't think this is true. Hard yes, but that's a good thing. If it ups the average grade of every problem by even a hefty three grades it would still put most problems within the range of some users. After all I've seen the likes of Nacho climb some of the hardest problems on the wall footless!
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I've never had a problem getting my feet on the holds because of the paint job. It's normally because there's some big purple bucket at shin height that I smash my leg on.
Linking me to another point -there is plenty of space for punters to get fit and do longer stamina problems - I dont think theres case for <7b circuits on the training wall.
To me this is the major problem. Easy stuff = high traffic = fucked holds. The majority of people climbing harder problems will brush the holds (and there wont be that many of them). Punters working a 7a circuit with any footholds will repeatedly scrabble their feet over anything in reach and boot rubber is far worse than chalk anyway.
There used to be circuits on the comp wall, surely there's room for an easy (7a ish) jug haul pump fest type thing on there that wouldn't cause as many issues? Keep it to a couple of harder circuits with specified footholds on the board and it would be ok I think.
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all that tells us is the handholds are too big, i've seen a couple of people do them footless. muscles coming out of their ears yet less than no ability to climb outside. that doesn't include nacho, who is no punter.
i think resins would work better on the training board than the comp one. why are people comparing it to the foundry. the foundry has basic probs on the wave, which nubbins lend themselves to. plus the wave is more or less vertical in comparison.
with regards to less than 7b circuits there are more people to satisfy than the dozen or so people that would/do climb the up probs on the training board. the wall is there to make money, this is not made from a hardcore few. so jaspers shin can be sacrificed if a big purple jug in the way gets 20 more people coming back to do circuits
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Thanks folks - keep it coming, as it all helps...
The comp wall is specifically for comp style problems - its not supposed to have much relevance to outdoor climbing (as has ANY indoor climbing, anywhere, imho). Indoor climbing is just that, and outdoor climbing is a completely different fish. We gave up long ago trying to recreate rock inside, as it just doesn't work properly. I am not going to put loads of resin smears on the comp wall - the problems are set to be climbed as they are set (and this is always done with consideration for the short, as all of the problems in the Works are. In general, climbing is harder the smaller you are - period.) If you need other options, use some other holds. I agree that small resin smears are very good for training body-tension, but its a comp wall and not a training board so a load of extra footholds will just confuse the issue.
As regards our training board, all your comments have been taken in and will be acted upon (or ignored, if they aren't relevant). The obvious issue we have is that the board is not quite steep enough for the hardcore, (although most will have access to their own boards anyway, so whats the beef?). The paint job was done for free by some friends of ours, and the design was their idea. Love it or hate it, its part of the place and I would be very loathed to paint over it just so its easier for some people to see the footholds. A good clean up and reset of this board will improve this matter anyway. I have some ideas to improve matters and have also been attempting to free up a little space for a nice big 45, but that might have to wait until 2009.
Anyway, now the mysterious Devon Stunning North Leeds mega wall that nobody knows anything about is about to open we'll all be out of business by the end of the year, so we might just close up shop now ;)?!?!
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Its very dark in the Works, some areas particularly so. Its often difficult to distinguish hold colour. More lighting if possible please.
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The paint job was done for free by some friends of ours, and the design was their idea. Love it or hate it, its part of the place and I would be very loathed to paint over it just so its easier for some people to see the footholds.
I've just forked out over a £ton for a 3month membership - how much is rembrandt paying to keep the mural there? fuck all. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?
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Pleeease don't make the easiest route style circuit 7b - i am rubbish and still want to work stamina on the circuits/routes board.
In the opening spiel of the works, they promised routes style problems from french 6a to 8a, its a big chop to make that 7b to 8a.
What about left two thirds of board used for routy circuity things, right third a selection of unmoving woody style holds (with a few changing small holded up problems in between)
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It's true that the proportion of climbers who will climb/train at the highest level is small, but I wonder if the percentage of people who aspire to climb at that level is actually quite large. So while it might not seem to make financial sense to cater just for those who want to train in this way, the value of having something people can work towards is perhaps also in the number of people it appeals to, not just those who use it regularly.
Plus, by nuturing those performing at the top end, the works can do its bit to increase the country's standard of climbing...thus leading to exciting routes and problems getting done outside...thus leading to pictures and videos that inspire punters everywhere; images that make people want to go climb and crank...thus leading to more people down the works...
Anyway, the works is the biggest bouldering wall in the world. I'm sure they can squeeze in a 3 or 4 metre wide 50 degree board* and please everyone.
*Come on Percy, 50 not 45!
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New lights are ordered and should be installed in the next week or so. How's that for service?
The mural wasn't painted by Rembrant, Dave. How could you make such a mistake? Rembrandt took as his primary subjects the themes of portraiture, landscape and narrative painting. For the last, he was especially praised by his contemporaries, who extolled him as a masterful interpreter of biblical stories for his skill in representing emotions and attention to detail. He didn't do climbing walls, as far as I'm aware.
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hopefully there's a page on wikipedia about training boards that you can cut and paste too. ::)
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Percy, I respect your decision to keep the comp wall a comp wall. But surely more people use this with a view to climbing outside than do comps, this is now my only local spot to climb steep stuff and a few concessions to a more traditional style of climb ing would be hugely appreciated.
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Thanks folks - keep it coming, as it all helps...
The comp wall is specifically for comp style problems - its not supposed to have much relevance to outdoor climbing (as has ANY indoor climbing, anywhere, imho). Indoor climbing is just that, and outdoor climbing is a completely different fish. We gave up long ago trying to recreate rock inside, as it just doesn't work properly.
Really? I'm sure a high percentage of users are there hoping to replicate climbing outdoors whilst the weather is too shit or its dark etc. rather than specifically enjoying comp style climbing. Reading this statement I can see why comp problems seem to diverge from reality more and more.
although most will have access to their own boards anyway, so whats the beef?
I think its because most people DON'T have their own boards or anywhere to put them.
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although most will have access to their own boards anyway, so whats the beef?
I think its because most people DON'T have their own boards or anywhere to put them.
Name: "Paul B"
Specialist Subject: "hitting the nail on the head"
afterall, if everyone wanting to train hard has access to their own board then why on earth would there be all these repeated suggestions and pleas for a steep training board?
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i am rubbish and still want to work stamina on the circuits/routes board.
It's supposed to be a training board and is the only bit of The Works that has hard problems that are relevant (to me) for getting strong for actual climbing. When did it become the "stamina/routes board"?
In the opening spiel of the works, they promised routes style problems from french 6a to 8a, its a big chop to make that 7b to 8a.
Fair point and there is PLENTY of room elsewhere for these problems without making the training board impossible to train on. This point has been laboured enough. Dense - I'm not saying that there should be no easier circuit type things, of course they will attract more custom. I'm saying everything should have it's place.
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Surely its simple to make your own easier circuits using the up-problems on the board to the left of the training board :shrug:
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I suspect the success of the Works has something to do with it appealing to the masses and being a "fun night out", rather than somewhere you go to train? You can't blame em for that. It is a business after all. I only wish they did a 'Campus board and a bit of a chat' membership.
As to it being impossible to create 'realistic' problems indoors, I don't agree. I mostly climb at The Foundry and whilst I don't think the Wave is anything like climbing outdoors, I've recently got into the board there. The vague arete has resin features on it, which, when combined with the bleaustone holds and the fact that it is circa 40 degrees, makes for very font-esque problems. Shame it's so limited.
What would be brilliant would be a wall with lots of vague aretes/prows that aren't ridiculously steep, with resin and small hand holds? Commercial suicide anyone ;)
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Just to chip in on this I reckon that some of you on this thread are being a tiny bit selfish about what you want from that board (and possibly a little bit blind about how you should be training, too).
Lot's of people do use that board for circuits, there isn't really a lot of space for them elsewhere as the rest of the wall is covered in people doing the excellent font-style circuits. To say that the circuits shouldn't get in the way of the hard problems is to assume that your rights take primacy over people who want to use the wall differently.
In an ideal world this wall would be given over to circuits and those doing strength work could use a separate, steeper, board. In the real world I can see the argument for reducing the number of circuits but we should keep in mind that this is the only part of the works where people can do this at the moment.
Also, you should all be doing more circuits anyway; even if you just want to get strong for 3-move problems.
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Thanks folks - keep it coming, as it all helps...
The comp wall is specifically for comp style problems - its not supposed to have much relevance to outdoor climbing (as has ANY indoor climbing, anywhere, imho). Indoor climbing is just that, and outdoor climbing is a completely different fish. We gave up long ago trying to recreate rock inside, as it just doesn't work properly. I am not going to put loads of resin smears on the comp wall - the problems are set to be climbed as they are set (and this is always done with consideration for the short, as all of the problems in the Works are. In general, climbing is harder the smaller you are - period.) If you need other options, use some other holds. I agree that small resin smears are very good for training body-tension, but its a comp wall and not a training board so a load of extra footholds will just confuse the issue.
I thought you might say that. I've got no issue with comp style probs, I enjoy them, but only so many times over. If the probs are there for fun rather than training, then a fairly rapid turnover is key, especially if re-cycling is not an option. Making your own eliminates/probs is something I already try to do, but there needs to be a greater density of probs to make this a realistic option.
Just to chip in on this I reckon that some of you on this thread are being a tiny bit selfish about what you want from that board (and possibly a little bit blind about how you should be training, too).
To be fair Percy himself was suggesting making the training board more hardcore.
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Stu there used to be a happy medium of up problems and circuits. Now the circuits have taken over and made it impossible to enjoy the up problems. Is it selfish to request that the balance be restored? Maybe. It's difficult not to be a teeny bit biased when the bit of the wall I really enjoyed climbing on has been spoiled.
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I can sympathise with that. To some extent though, a lack of crimpy/basic problems can be sorted out through routesetting on other parts of the wall, whereas there just isn't another section of the wall suitable for endurance circuits.
I'm sure Percy and Sam have a pretty good handle on what their customers want overall though.
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is it a crime to hit a student over the head with a snooker ball in a sock.
everybodys right.
to be fair dave you did pay your money already knowing everything you know now.
any sane person gets a coffee and a weight vest and makes their way to the campus board area.
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is it a crime to hit a student over the head with a snooker ball in a sock.
everybodys right.
to be fair dave you did pay your money already knowing everything you know now.
any sane person gets a coffee and a weight vest and makes their way to the campus board area.
what to use one of the 7 or so different rung types on offer or to head towards the standard rungs? Strip one side of the campus board, put the rungs people use on the other side, add a little bit of structural support (scaffolding if you like ;D ) and voila, board space!
Just to chip in on this I reckon that some of you on this thread are being a tiny bit selfish about what you want from that board (and possibly a little bit blind about how you should be training, too).
I don't really get what you're suggesting here, do we all need a tonne more capilarisation and therefore we should just stick to going round and round?
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what to use one of the 7 or so different rung types on offer or to head towards the standard rungs? Strip one side of the campus board, put the rungs people use on the other side, add a little bit of structural support (scaffolding if you like ;D ) and voila, board space!
I was about to suggest the same thing. Most of the campus board is wasted space. It's always good to try experimenting, but now that it turns out people don't actually want to campus on small slots...
50 degree board
50 degree board
50 degree board
Purdy please....
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I think the biggest and best BOULDERING wall should put a priority on hard bouldering training over and above route type training. Whether that be bouldering for indoor comps or for outdoor boulders.
I like the sound of a training board on the back of the campus board (getting rid of huge black logs that I am terrified of ripping off and incut bastards).
Any chance you could rustle that up with the same level of speed as the lighting pretty please?
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what to use one of the 7 or so different rung types on offer or to head towards the standard rungs? Strip one side of the campus board, put the rungs people use on the other side, add a little bit of structural support (scaffolding if you like ;D ) and voila, board space!
I was about to suggest the same thing. Most of the campus board is wasted space. It's always good to try experimenting, but now that it turns out people don't actually want to campus on small slots...
50 degree board
50 degree board
50 degree board
Purdy please....
I'm not sure if combining the training area and the place mothers like to sit and chat is a good idea. Its greasy, ITS F*CKING SH*T!
Seriously though, they'd lose seating/storage and it would cost £££
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I'm not certain there's enough room there at all. The board is actually in the ideal place already. Percy's short term measures sound like a good plan to me provided the problems are well set (basic ;)). Long term a steeper board would be nice it's true but location is key.
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so what rungs exactly are people considering the "standard" on the works campus board? I thought it was the right hand set on the sandpaper-log side.
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Personally I use 3 sets for various exercises, these being :
1. Face nearest comp wall - Far right nearest pull up bar.
2. Opposite face - Far right nearest window.
3. Opposite face - to left of 2 - the thin edges not the slots.
I would be pretty dissapoined if any of these dissappeared.
I also use the pull up bar a lot. ;D
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I also use the pull up bar a lot. ;D
You are Stevie posting on Neil's login and I claim my £5.
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OK OK, when I say a lot I mean I use it to walm up on every time I come into train or climb - and how dare you call me Stevie. >:(
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so what rungs exactly are people considering the "standard" on the works campus board? I thought it was the right hand set on the sandpaper-log side.
I'd say those are as close as you'd get.
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and how dare you call me Stevie. >:(
stevie is a legend, you should see it as a compliment. ;)
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IMO keep the comp wall as a comp wall, that's wht it's a comp wall and called a comp wall.
8)
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did your grandmother never tell you 'little boys should be seen, and not heard'
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IMO keep the comp wall as a comp wall, that's wht it's a comp wall and called a comp wall.
Munkii, what is your understanding of the meaning of the term "comp"?
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IMO keep the comp wall as a comp wall, that's wht it's a comp wall and called a comp wall.
Munkii, what is your understanding of the meaning of the term "comp"?
:shrug:
did your grandmother never tell you 'little boys should be seen, and not heard'
no she's dead.
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IMO keep the comp wall as a comp wall, that's wht it's a comp wall and called a comp wall.
Munkii, what is your understanding of the meaning of the term "comp"?
:shrug:
Go on, have a guess? You shouldn't pass on a question, passes count against you in the even of draw.
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can I also make a plea that whatever gets done with the traiing board can it happen ASAP rather than later. at the moment you can hardly get on the training board at times because of the non-stop traversing, one person starts when the last person is half way over, thus you're screwed till they get bored.
there must be plenty of space on the wall elsewhere for these stamina plods.
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:agree:
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there must be plenty of space on the wall elsewhere for these stamina plods.
People keep saying this but where!!? there isn't another square inch of wall that isn't too busy for circuits, and the training wall is the least busy section par excellence.
Fair enough if you want to stop people doing circuits so you can have your dirty crimps back, but don't kid yourself that you'll be stopping other people using the wall for their own purposes.
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you could plonk a stamina loop on just about any of the steeper panels - most of the have got a very low hold density compared to the training board, and it'd be better to spread the burden of the enduro-wads rather than just bumming it together on one wall.
at the end of the day even without these set loops, you could train stamina by climbing up and then down any existing problems than linking into another one etc. and don't forget jugs get in the way of small holds, but not vice versa, so they need to be positioned sympathetically. most of the non-training walls have enough large holds anyway that the enduro-circuits wouldn't have a negative impact.
On a final note, are these things even that good for training endurance really? they seem to be very specicif training for people with ambitions of figure-of-eight loops on juggy pockets etc, but are way to long for effective training for british type power stamina problems (green trav, extended warefare, jerry's traverse, weedkiller trav etc) and thus way too big holds. since its largely sideways movement, and not having to stop for clips, i'd also wager that they aren't that great for route training either, or at least not as good as doing indoor routes. most brit sport routes aren't even as steep as the training board.
lets face it, in a wall with all this space, i see no reason that enduro shit and power training should have to be crammed into one little corner like common lepers. getting rid of a 10ft section of vertical wall somewhere wouldn't be a drop in the font-circuit ocean, but would make a vast difference for harder training.
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:agree:
Surely its simple to make your own easier circuits using the up-problems on the board to the left of the training board :shrug:
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phew!
all this talk of training makes me glad i only go there for a cup of coffee
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You didn't address the point that all the other sections of wall are too busy for people to do circuits, regardless of whether the angle or holds are suitable.
And yes, these circuits are excellent for training, for power endurance routes and longer routes too. Circuits of 25 to 100 moves or so form a major part of the training of most spanish beasts I talk to, together with campusing and the like for strength. It seems to get them fit enough...
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People keep saying this but where!!? there isn't another square inch of wall that isn't too busy for circuits
There have been stamina circuits set on that bit of wall (L of board) before for God's sake and on the Comp wall. They were fine and didn't get in the way of the font circuit problems or the Comp wall problems. Why is this suddenly not possible?
Stu you're banging a well meaning but out of time drum. i.e. You are wrong. :)
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there was a pink swirl circuit on the wall left of the training board - it was good but impossible to climb on if like me you work full time and can only go the wall on evenings
you need a seperate bit of wall for doing stamina circuits - the training board became that bit of wall - and the prevalence of "routes" over up problems was due to sam sitting and seeing who was using that board more.
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What about sacraficing the section thats plastered in volumes to the left of the archway as your stood with your back to the competition wall. Wouldn't be a massive loss to the Font-esque circuits and would keep those doing stamina loops in one place.
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Well I don't agree with you Dave / Jasper. I don't like circuits on the other walls and I really don't like the easy spotty traverse of the gods which has all sorts of inept punters shaking out on the slabs for gods sake >:(
The training board is as it says a training board, the only issue is the respect which is shown between the different users. If people are hogging it for circuits just tell them to give you break and fuck for a while.
Circuit trainging is hugely important for both bouldering and routing - when done properly. It really winds me up when I see people hanging on for ever by stopping and shaking out as if they are on a route - if this is what they are trying to train they really should be on routes. Power endurance training is all about continuous movement with no shaking out so enabling you to pull out hard moves after performing many non recoverable moves - so maybe The Works needs to do a bit of education for the users as well. ;D
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Circuits of 25 to 100 moves or so form a major part of the training of most spanish beasts I talk to, together with campusing and the like for strength.
thats just circumstantial, shirley? doesn't mean that wouldn't get better results doing something different. there isn't any old saying or wives tale i could use here, but if there was it'd be along the lines of "climbing sideways and downwards only gets you good at climbing sideways and downwards".
but this is all beside the point. its no skin of my nose if people want to do these things. just lets not try to cram stamina on big holds and power on small holds into the same tiny section of a massive wall.
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give you a break and fuck for a while.
I'm down for that subject to attraction.
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Well, I agree it's not the best solution to have tiny holds and big jugs on the same section of wall, but I don't think there's an easy solution because most of the wall is rightly devoted to the majority of paying customers, which doesn't leave a lot of wall space.
And your old saying doesn't exist 'cos it's just wrong and silly. It's like saying campusing only gets you good at climbing on 1/4" wooden slats with no feet. My evidence might be circumstantial, but if you are trying to get good at climbing it might be an idea to copy what the best in the world are doing....
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i'm not getting up at some godforsaken hour and cycling to any crag thank you very much
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Intense circuits for PE, long capiliarisation on quiet parts of the wall to raise anaerobic threshold, but surely some longer circuits - 5 minutes ish, which seems to be about 2 circuits worth on that board at a low-ish pace - is going to replicate longer hard sections on stamina routes. Perhaps working the link where you're using both anaerobic and aerobic systems, getting pumped over a bit longer than 15-30 move PE brutality. This seems to be what I encounter on most pumpy routes outside (though obviously a lot of stuff in the uk is more short, hard, PE stuff).
Perhaps my training is misguided.. educate me! I certainly got the fittest I've ever been whilst in europe this summer, where I was mainly just onsighting/quickly redpointing routes which would take 5-20 minutes most of the time.. if my experience of ceuse is anything to go by, shaking out on jugs on overhanging ground gets you very good at shaking out on jugs on overhanging ground, which seemed to translate well to onsighting in europe.
Routes training would probably be better for me than traversing, but it can be hard to find people psyched for routes sessions a lot of the time.
I've lost any point I was trying to make in there somewhere..
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In a nut-shell, here is some feedback from this thread.
The Works does not currently have room for a 45 degree training board - we'd like one, but at this moment we haven't got anywhere to put a board that will make us proud so we aren't going to build any new bits onto what we already have. This does not mean that at some point in the next 9 months we won't find time and space to build a new board, but at the moment it is not an option.
Therefore, we will all have to make do with the wall we already have. Its not a bad board, but its obvious that we can do a few things to make it better. So, we'll sort out the circuits (clean, reset, etc) and maybe have a few less this time to free up space for up-problems. Some of the good, classic up-problems will be cleaned and kept, and some of the less popular ones will be binned and replaced with new, clean and clearly colour-coded new problems of a similar standard. We'll probably do this work at the start of next week, all things being equal.
Thanks for everybodies opinions - its worth bearing in mind that the opinions expressed by UKB members represent a very small percentage of the number of people who actually use this training board, so whilst we appreciate all the feedback, we can't act on all of it as it would upset more people than it would make happy. As always, its a fine balancing act but at least we are listening. Ta!
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As always, its a fine balancing act but at least we are listening. Ta!
(http://culturegoespop.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/petit3a1.jpg?w=300&h=265)
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sounds good to me. looking forward to some new problems.
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give you break and fuck for a while.
I haven't been to The Works for a while .... Has it turned into a some kind of bouldering wall/knocking shop hybrid ?
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I'll have a latte, a chai tea, a pogo pump and an elevator ride around the block, please. No milk in the chai.
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i know it's off topic but i need to prove a point.
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=ownkarma;u=3007 (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=ownkarma;u=3007)
SHE DIED BEFORE I WAS BORN!!
Plaintive nonsense.
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Therefore, we will all have to make do with the wall we already have. Its not a bad board, but its obvious that we can do a few things to make it better. So, we'll sort out the circuits (clean, reset, etc) and maybe have a few less this time to free up space for up-problems. Some of the good, classic up-problems will be cleaned and kept, and some of the less popular ones will be binned and replaced with new, clean and clearly colour-coded new problems of a similar standard. We'll probably do this work at the start of next week, all things being equal.
Sounds good.
The black problem on the RHS is really nice, if at all possible can you try and make a few that are hard without being utterly dirty problems (bigger moves between holds that arent sold for the feet) that make my fingers ache. Thanks!
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Ditto that paul (though i never thought either of the black problems were that great). a lot of the holds on there now either feel like finger jugs (like all those nice chunky moon screwons) or are nano-1/4 pad rippers, but not a lot inbetween.
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i know it's off topic but i need to prove a point.
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=ownkarma;u=3007 (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=ownkarma;u=3007)
SHE DIED BEFORE I WAS BORN!!
Plaintive nonsense.
Don't worry Munkii, in (hyper-)space no one can hear you scream (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078748/).
Sorry you never got to know your grandmother. One of my grandfathers died when my mum was 11 (mothers side) and my (biological) grandmother on my fathers side died when he was < 10 so I never knew them. What about your other grandmother?
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having read the first 3 pages of this, and skimmed the rest it seems to me that:
the schoolies are lusting for their old place back, are desperate for a 50' board to use and there is a near unresolvable conflict on the ideas of endurance circuits, full on cluttered *never to be changed* boards and annual colour coded spartan type board desires.
I'd also agree with the general tirckery of not just the hard stuff in the whole wall, personally i like it.. i pay a fair amount of cash to go and be entertained whilst wandering about the place. There again i have my own board for basic stuff.
I'd suggest something the foundry did years ago.... the schoolies and the works directors open another venue.... the Works directors business skills with the knowledge of the schoolies = boards with real training promise for you strong boys
if history is anything to go by you will not inundated by punters paying more to trash the holds... that was never an issue in the various incarnations of the office boards at the foundry.
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Well something is happening.....
I was down the climbing works for my lunchtime boulder and they are stripping the wall of all holds.
We shall see....
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Which wall, the training wall?
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great - i hope banks got those projects nailed on sunday!
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Which wall, the training wall?
Yep
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Without having read the whole thread I would suggest that the proportion of 'serious' climbers who use the training board as opposed to us punters who use the circuits is insignificant, particularly in financial terms.
I'm not suggesting that the works (or indeed any other business) can afford to ignore their customer's views; however let's not forget the prime function of the works is to return a profit and not to provide a bespoke training facility.
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they are stripping the wall of all holds.
Not all of the holds, just some of them.
Those of you who are calling for one of the vert sections to be turned into a steep board need to remember that steep boards have a massive drop off zone whereas vert boards have a significantly smaller drop off zone (4.2m at 45 degrees needs at least 6.2m for drop-off cf. 2m for a similar height vert board). So we are limited by this, we are also limited by general lack of space - if we turned one side of the campus board into a mega steep board we would lose significant amounts of seating and storage space for bags etc (anyone in yesterday will appreciate how important these are to the 400+ customers we had).
Our problem is that despite being the biggest bouldering wall in the world we are not actually big enough to accommodate everything we want to do.
Anyone know of a bigger building in a similar location ;)
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And BTW we don't always react to people's suggestions, quite often we pre-empt them eg the new lights that went in today have been planned for a fair while.
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Those of you who are calling for one of the vert sections to be turned into a steep board need to remember that steep boards have a massive drop off zone whereas vert boards have a significantly smaller drop off zone (4.2m at 45 degrees needs at least 6.2m for drop-off cf. 2m for a similar height vert board). So we are limited by this, we are also limited by general lack of space - if we turned one side of the campus board into a mega steep board we would lose significant amounts of seating and storage space for bags etc (anyone in yesterday will appreciate how important these are to the 400+ customers we had).
I do fully appreciate that now you have limited space as everything is set out. Its a shame the limitations of the board weren't seen during the constructing phase. I'd like to point out that personally I see the scale of the campus board as absolutely insane both in height and variety.
People who truly want to train or climb hard etc. will always be in the minority and therefore don't offer much in the way of financial return. However, living in Sheffield and having a larger than usual percentage of waddage I'm surprised that the minority is still thought of as so small that its insignificant (Sloper et al.). Surely if the numbers are that small then the numbers of people wanting to do power endurance circuits is similar in scale and the training board might as well be sacked off completely in favour of
mantling corner?
volume humping arena?
big orange ball dynoing?
I look forward to sampling the new delights of the training corner. Now for my next campaign: Bring back the old style ginger flapjack!
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Next campaign: Get the back2back Clang Brothers to stay a bit more focused...
sorry :-[
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been on the training board tonight and all the problem set so far seem very good, lots of feet coming off in a schoolroom style just not as steep, so in my mind this is a major improvement over the previous stuff, the best of which are still there. can't wait till its finished. welcome to dog-with-6-cocks-ville.
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And BTW we don't always react to people's suggestions, quite often we pre-empt them eg the new lights that went in today have been planned for a fair while.
I have this image of a group of pre-cog mutants being kept in a vat at The Works with the aim of pre-empting people's needs.
If there is a minority report from the pre-cogs regarding the proposed grade of a future problem, how do you decide what to do?
Further meditation on the idea suggests that they are kept in a vat of cheese, which is why there is a picture of cheese on the door to the vat room.
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The only VAT in the cheese room is the one that pays your wages. And there are plenty of mutants down The Works that are not yet cognitive.
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volume humping arena?
Hmmmm ..... This isn't convincing me that it hasn't become the world's biggest and only bouldering wall / knocking shop ... :-\
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been on the training board tonight and all the problem set so far seem very good, lots of feet coming off in a schoolroom style just not as steep, so in my mind this is a major improvement over the previous stuff, the best of which are still there. can't wait till its finished. welcome to dog-with-6-cocks-ville.
:thumbsup:
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I do fully appreciate that now you have limited space as everything is set out. Its a shame the limitations of the board weren't seen during the constructing phase.
So you'll apreciate that when we built the Works, the School was open and provided you with all your board requirements. The Works is fantastically well designed to be a good commercial bouldering centre - not an alternative to the School. Now the School isn't there any more we aren't going to tear down existing structures and recreate the boards, because 1) It is not a sensible move from a commercial point of view, and 2) Because it wouldn't be as popular as the mantling corner, Volume humping area, or the big orange ball dynoing areas!
What we are trying to do is adapt the limited training facilities we do have to make sure we can accomodate as many peoples wishes as possible.
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I still think it not beyond the wit of man that the works directors and the schoolies could get a separate venue...
wouldnt be the pitance that the school was mind... depends how much you beasts want it i reckon
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So you'll apreciate that when we built the Works, the School was open and provided you with all your board requirements.
theres plenty of us who weren't school members who also want to train you know!
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I want , I want , I want .... Stop whinging and read what Percy says ..... The Works is a COMMERCIAL VENTURE ie it exists to make a few quid , and as any fule know you can't make a few quid from only accomodating the few .... If you feel that strongly then resurrect The Schoolroom , build your 50 degree campus or whatever you fancy .... Club together , what fucking ever , but please , please , please shut the fuck up .....
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luckily the peeps who run the works don't have quite the idiotic outlook on the situation as yourself.
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2) Because it wouldn't be as popular as the mantling corner, Volume humping area, or the big orange ball dynoing areas!
Percy, are you completely sure about this? As Dave says, there are lots of people who would like good training facilities who have nothing to do with the school. Training facilities don't just appeal to those who are already strong, but those who want to get strong. That's a LOT of people. As an indication, the number of people operating at the ft7a - 7c level is pretty large, even if it is a minority, and most of these people go indoors to try and get stronger.
Just as you've seen the training wall become popular for power endurance (evidence of people wanting to train), I bet if you built a decent 50 deg. wall it would be equally popular. Yes, more than a mantling corner. (Come on, only wierdos like mantles!) Yes, more than a volume section. (You do realise that people react to volumes like marmite, whatever level they climb at...)
I just thought I'd write this because for some reason this thread seems to be promoting the idea that there are only two types of climbers - the hardcore strong boys and everyone else who don't want anything to do with training. This is all wrong. There are lots of people in the middle - it's obvious by the number of people attempting the harder circuits in the works, or anything on the comp wall. A minority, but a sizeable one I'm sure. Most people I know (myself included) are mid-grade climbers, and most are keen to train.
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Why do you feel my view is idiotic ? .... They opened a bouldering wall to make money ..... Simple as that ..... The fact that some very very good boulderers go down there does not alter the fact that they need to pay the bills ...... Ripping out part of it to make a section devoted to the few and thus losing some income don't make sense to me ....
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Fully.
What we are trying to do is adapt the limited training facilities we do have to make sure we can accommodate as many peoples wishes as possible.
Tonight I sampled the reset training board which is still a work in progress I'm sure and is definitely much better than it was a week ago.
;D Less massive things to hit bodily parts off.
;D More small-mid sized holds that don't eat skin.
:thumbsdown: Almost every problem on there had one hold too many, some had up to three, ok so you can miss these out easily enough however it seemed like wherever it felt like you might have to pull there was a way around doing so. This detracted from the basic-ness of the problems.
:thumbsdown: (Circuits and up problems will never co-exist happily, this was evident tonight where you'd wait an age between goes due to someone circling the board and shaking out).
I'm guessing some harder stuff is going to be added later on?
I want , I want , I want .... Stop whinging and read what Percy says ..... The Works is a COMMERCIAL VENTURE ie it exists to make a few quid , and as any fule know you can't make a few quid from only accomodating the few .... If you feel that strongly then resurrect The Schoolroom , build your 50 degree campus or whatever you fancy .... Club together , what fucking ever , but please , please , please shut the fuck up .....
Now for grumpy:
feel free not to read on. It's not quite as simple as you suggest or I would have, I've already invested a fair amount of time looking into this. Once after the demise of the woodie and once again the first time the school was threatened. I don't have a cellar and my balcony board was probably the first E12 in the world, therefore I'm fucked.
The notion that the amount of people that it would cater for is so small that its insignificant is something that I'd argue strongly against, OK so if you set Font 8C problems there would be issues but there's absolutely nothing around the Font 8a mark in the works and plenty of people are pulling down round about that level. True, there aren't enough to make the whole wall an elitist hotspot but enough to justify some change (which is what the commercial venture is now doing) eh grumpy?
(oh and what R-man just said farm more eloquently than I)
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Fair enough ( and I did read on ) , but the general feeling I've got from reading this thread is how an elitist few are trying to influence a fairly egaliterian venue ...... They shouldn't .... Why pressure the owners , they will do what they think is right for their business .... Are people going to boycott The Works because it doesn't fulfill all their training needs under one roof ?....All I'm saying is accept the status quo , it's by far the best bouldering wall roundabouts and Percy , Sam and Graham seem to know what they're doing .....
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Feel free to tarnish me with that brush if you will (although I think it would be unjust) however the other people commenting on this thread are far from elitist. If people didn't make their opinions known then how would people know about areas where improvement is possible? The works is a great commercial success there is no denying that, its also great for the mid easy to tricky grade bands, that's why I suggested my other half take out a membership there and not at the foundry or edge.
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2) Because it wouldn't be as popular as the mantling corner, Volume humping area, or the big orange ball dynoing areas!
Percy, are you completely sure about this?
Yes, as sure as I can be.
Paul - the board is work in progress. We've not finished yet, but seeing as how me and Sam are currently not climbing (Sam has codfinger, and I've not had time due to family comitments) we're doing a bit, getting feedback, and then tweaking until the job is good. We'll have another 'do' tomorrow.
Circuits and hard problems will currently have to co-exist harmoniously and without bitching on this board - it's possible but you will have to exercise a little tolerance and understanding for those seeking a burning pump. We all have our problems.... ;)
Poor Grumpy seems to have gotten short shrift from you bullies......however, nobody needs to shut the fuck up, as long as it keeps the Works thread on top of the list of topics!
;) ;) ;)
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So it works then , it's a great place .... But like anywhere open to everyone it can't possibly fulfill everybody's requirements ..... We each want something different from a place , I go to certain pubs just because they sell Moonshine but I don't hassle a landlord that doesn't .... I agree that there should be somewhere for those that climb hard and want to climb harder , but essentially haranguing the owners of a business is not good ..... And I've just read back through this thread and only one person said please ( well done Jasper ) ......
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Apologies Percy , I was probably speaking out of turn .... But when grumpy's major and minor start shouting 'I want , I want , I want , I tend to have the same reaction ie You can't have it all .....
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Paul - the board is work in progress. We've not finished yet, but seeing as how me and Sam are currently not climbing (Sam has codfinger, and I've not had time due to family comitments) we're doing a bit, getting feedback, and then tweaking until the job is good. We'll have another 'do' tomorrow.
Cool (well not the injury and the lack of time) Some more specific (one-sided) feedback, of course its just from my silly little head and you know where that gets me.
The black problem at the LHS:
Did you mean for it to have an Egyptian to make the move into the undercut easy?
what's the cowpat for your LH for its easy enough to reach straight through?
When you hit the next LH hold its big enough to easily yard to the top, does it need the RH end crimp?
The orange problem next right is nice, but not very consistent, tricky start followed by a trivial finish.
The orange problem next right, does it really need the intermediate? it ruins what could be a big lock. The starting hold also gets used as a footer which makes the move less tricky again.
Pocket problem on the RHS - great
Currently I don't think any of the problems except maybe the furthest orange on the RHS is any harder than anything on your font style circuits but again this is probably because its still a W.I.P.
I'll be interested to see how the harder problems pan out, as I think there is a fine line between hard and impossibly hard especially at such a shallow angle.
I appreciate all of the takes time changes like this take so good on you.
Circuits and hard problems will currently have to co-exist harmoniously and without bitching on this board - it's possible but you will have to exercise a little tolerance and understanding for those seeking a burning pump. We all have our problems.... ;)
Hence the brackets, it's not ideal but more than bearable.
oh grumpy...Sorry, Thanks, Please :-[
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From a purely commercial point of view, I'd guess reducing the area for circuit problems by three or four panels would lose precisely zero business (nobody's going to stop coming because the circuits only have 37 problems rather than 40), while doubling the area of the training wall could generate extra business from the strong-but-want-to-be stronger crew.
I enjoyed the new training board setup tonight (mainly because, unlike Paul, up to 7c keeps me plenty busy ;D) And, as they kindly pointed out, the stamina monkeys did force me to rest properly between goes! :great:
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And I've just read back through this thread and only one person said please ( well done Jasper )
You aren't reading properly. Or counting properly.
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I'm hanging my head in shame , there's four ( up to Paul b's just above which I'm not going to count as I detect a slight hint of sarcasm in his )yourself included I notice ...... Again this may be wrong as my eyes can no longer focus properly , six minutes sleep in eleven days tends to do that ..... The other thing I noticed was there some others voicing similar thoughts to my own , ok they weren't put quite as bluntly , but still they were in the same vein ......
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I'm with Grumpy in terms of the thrust of the argument; on a commercial basis you need to consider the user numbers that can use an area of the wall at any one time, the numbers of users that will use an area of wall and the frequency that the users will use the wall.
I would bet that the number of regular users of the training board is substantially fewer than 100 (10 at a time would be a high average), as such any erosion of capacity for the situation where one regulary finds >100 people on the circuits and >20 on the comp wall would be a very poor business decision.
I think all the strong boys and girls opinion about the grades people climb are distorted by the pure energy radiating from their ripepd bodies; I think that even at the works the average grade climbed is below Font 5 and the % climbing >Font 7 is at the right hand end of the bell curve.
To be blunt, if you can't afford to build your own facility why do you think that Sam, Percy and Graeme should subsidise you? This is nothing personal, just the way business is.
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As a sign of penance I will even help you build such a facility .....
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To be blunt, if you can't afford to build your own facility why do you think that Sam, Percy and Graeme should subsidise you? This is nothing personal, just the way business is.
Yeah you're right Sloper, why bother having a training board at all? Just cover the thing in circuits of jugs and leave it at that. Everyone climbing harder than 6C can fuck off to The Foundry, they're in the minority so their views don't matter. As dave said it's a good job the owners of the place don't have such a blinkered attitude. Everyone knows that The Works is a commercial venture and that it is a very successful one as it is. It has been from day one and from day one it had a training board.
Someone mentioned earlier that the reason circuits have taken over the board in recent months is that Sam has seen who has been using it for what and changed it to suit. This is a fair point but I would say there's a good reason for that. Some people climb outdoors.
Until the clocks changed I'd only been to any climbing wall three or four times over the previous five months as I'd been climbing OUTSIDE. It is mainly over the winter that I need decent hardish problems to train on and I would have thought that that's the case for most people who climb at my (mid grade) level and a little harder. And R-man is right, there are plenty of us! It's completely understandable (in fact it's a no brainer) that over the summer/autumn fewer stronger climbers will have been frequenting The Works, especially (and here's the point) fewer stronger climbers who would want to train for climbing outside which is what the board (used to and maybe now again) offers - because they were OUTSIDE. This has been especially true this summer with the weather being generally shit so while most punters had nowhere dry to climb (and so went to The Works), I was at Rubicon or Crag X dodging the mud.
I've never suggested ripping out bits of the wall or anything. The place makes money and if it aint broke etc. Percy has said that he has plans for a better board in the future, fair enough. The point I've tried to make time and again is that the training board used to work fine (for what it is) then it got ruined. It seems that despite the idiotic protestations of a few the management are doing something to return it to it's previous working state. I'll get to find out for myself at the weekend anyway.
grumpy - you should really read the thread before jumping in with both feet! Percy asked for constructive criticism and that is what he has been getting.
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Jasper , I did read the thread before jumping in with both feet , and I'll admit that a lot of what was written was constructive criticism , which Percy duly took on board ..... I also feel that a line was then crossed and it became more of a this is what you should do wishlist kind of thing .....Hence my posts ....
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Here's my 1p worth - proper training is good fun, and I am slowly getting strong enough to get back on some steep, minging crimps. Hooray!
Back in the days of the edge woodie, despite all its limitations (bit too short in places), it was always a good laugh and there seemed to be enough scope for people to get what they wanted from it. Obviously, people still bitched about this, that and the other...
Anyone else remember that it had to close to make way for the cafe because it simply wasn't commercially viable? It is still something of a niche market; I think that if you want a specific training facility that will meet the very specific needs of the really dedicated and strong crowd, you will probably have to sort yourselves out and set up something yourself, as the school was set up back in the day by people who were psyched and got off their arses to provide exactly what they wanted for themselves.
I was never invited to join the school...
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Back in the days of the edge woodie, despite all its limitations (bit too short in places), it was always a good laugh and there seemed to be enough scope for people to get what they wanted from it. Obviously, people still bitched about this, that and the other...
It did have its limitations however the edge woodie was great. But if you look at it closer it only needed to be as big as from the door to the end of the 45 as nobody really used the rest of it apart from Ste Mc who went round and round and round and round.
Nobody is suggesting the works open a dedicated training venue.
as the school was set up back in the day by people who were psyched and got off their arses to provide exactly what they wanted for themselves.
People keep banging this drum, its currently not possible. If it were the boards wouldn't effectively be in storage, you've got a lot of motivated individuals who've invested a lot of time and effort into trying to keep the place open looking for opportunities to relocate and as yet nothing has worked out.
I was never invited to join the school...
Was anyone? I certainly never was I just pestered Nic to be put on the waiting list and then *BANG* 3 and a half years later I had an email saying there was a space. Nobody leaves so turnover of members is extremely slow and the list just keeps getting bigger.
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From a purely commercial point of view, I'd guess reducing the area for circuit problems by three or four panels would lose precisely zero business (nobody's going to stop coming because the circuits only have 37 problems rather than 40), while doubling the area of the training wall could generate extra business from the strong-but-want-to-be stronger crew.
This seems like a good point. I've never been on a circuit and thought "Man I am so glad I've got to do 40 problems instead of 35 and that I've managed to cover 30,000 square metres of climbing instead of 28,000". I doubt most people haven't either and I doubt that it would make any difference to numbers.
(I have on the other hand thought why on earth am I climbing on two skip roofs when there's already a large block roof and a series of arches to hang upside down on....oh and the uber-steep comp wall too)
My perspective: I am a punter (fat, weak, AND injured) and will never go near the training board. Any expansion to the training board will diminish the amount of climbing available to me without any benefit to myself. BUT I entirely agree with the people asking for it to be extended/improved - because I think they are right. They are customers too and could potentially be more customers, and I believe with some tweaking The Works has the space (and the inclination - shown by the various improvements so far) to be all things to all people.
0:02
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To be blunt, if you can't afford to build your own facility why do you think that Sam, Percy and Graeme should subsidise you? This is nothing personal, just the way business is.
Yeah you're right Sloper, why bother having a training board at all? Just cover the thing in circuits of jugs and leave it at that. Everyone climbing harder than 6C can fuck off to The Foundry, they're in the minority so their views don't matter. As dave said it's a good job the owners of the place don't have such a blinkered attitude. Everyone knows that The Works is a commercial venture and that it is a very successful one as it is. It has been from day one and from day one it had a training board.
Jasper, did you have a rough night or are youjust in a bad mood?
My point is that the training board in financial terms is probably the least economically viable part of the wall (other than the campus board) and that's it. I'm not suggesting that the board shouldn't be there but as with anything else commercial it has to appeal to the majority of potential users of that part of the facility and that will still be people climbing at less than stratospheric levels.
I have no brief for the climbing works etc merely expressing the view that I would doubt that a more dedicated training facility (i.e. doing something other than re-setting to cater for the more popularist training tastes) is economically viable.
You're an accountant right, surely this should be blindingly obvious?
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Jasper, did you have a rough night or are youjust in a bad mood?
Neither. I am having a bad day but wasn't when I posted earlier! :)
You keep mentioning stuff being economically viable. I see a thriving business. Unless The Works is having to turn people away because the training board is taking up valuable punter space then it aint damaging their profits. Come to think of it, even if that was the case then they'd be making so much money that it wouldn't matter! The board didn't used to have easy circuits on it and because of that didn't get as much traffic. The Works still made money. By saying that the board "has to appeal to the majority of potential users" you are backing up the argument that, by definition, it should be covered in easy circuits. As I said, fortunately the owners don't agree.
You're an accountant right, surely this should be blindingly obvious?
I do actually care about this a lot but I'm not stupid enough to be blinkered to the financial implications. I just don't think this is 100% about money either (again, fortunately).
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I was down tonight but not climbing and noticed a few of the problems had been tweaked here and there with one new problem on the right hand end which (i'm just guessing), is going to have a really really hard last move. I'm assuming the comp wall will now be the priority with the comp on friday.
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Went yesterday. The new problems seem mainly excellent. Sam was busy with comp setting but i had a brief chat and he said it was still a work in progress. More problems will go up and the new ones tweaked if necessary (input welcome as ever). Didn't try everything but the central red problem is particularly good and will be even better with a hold taken off (the LH of the two that are next to each other is redundant) and the top hold changed for a worse one.
Nice one lads. :thumbsup:
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Do you have a lanky mans sequence there then? as for me its currently sit start (on redundant leg to be able to reach!), left hand pinching block RH on poor sidepull, rockover to RH crimp, flick LH to u/cut. RH up for next hold, high foot and flag, get LH on hold right next to it. RH pinch LH top.
I had another session on the board thurs ish and the tweaks had made some of the problems harder and some more consistent. I wasn't feeling as strong as tues and things were feeling tough :-[.
I'm not sure the undercutting blue glass problem will catch on...
The new comp wall problems seem like a strange bunch. Most of the holds are massive except for the one green problem.
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The new comp wall problems seem like a strange bunch. Most of the holds are massive except for the one green problem.
So you'll have flashed them all then, Paul? All those big holds - I bet they were all easy, eh? ;)
The comp was for all abilities - from beginner to the be(a)st. The best were shut down by several problems, so big holds or not, I think the difficulty was just right. More problems are to be added on Monday to fill any gaps. You're obsession with only pulling on small holds is a little specific - it's possible to have difficult problems that use big holds too, you know....
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The new comp wall problems seem like a strange bunch. Most of the holds are massive except for the one green problem.
Shirley that's a good thing? So many walls just make problems harder by making the holds smaller, and further apart. The Works is one of the few places which make problems harder, by actually demanding more from the participant.
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The new comp wall problems seem like a strange bunch. Most of the holds are massive except for the one green problem.
So you'll have flashed them all then, Paul? All those big holds - I bet they were all easy, eh? ;)
The comp was for all abilities - from beginner to the be(a)st. The best were shut down by several problems, so big holds or not, I think the difficulty was just right. More problems are to be added on Monday to fill any gaps. You're obsession with only pulling on small holds is a little specific - it's possible to have difficult problems that use big holds too, you know....
As you well know (or could at least guess) the volume centric problems shot me down in flames. The green is the hardest on there (ignoring your special) and I couldn't do it from a sitter as I was finding it tricky to move my heel at the start, technical qualities shining through once again.
For what its worth, I enjoyed the problems that I did./tried There was no criticism in my statement just an observation, the holds are all either BIG BIG or LITTLE LITTLE.
p.s. I'm not the only one to have noticed this.
Shirley that's a good thing? So many walls just make problems harder by making the holds smaller, and further apart. The Works is one of the few places which make problems harder, by actually demanding more from the participant.
WTF? yes its great to be technically challenged but bigger moves and smaller holds DO demand more from the participant. The difference being if you don't have it you can't get round it.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Paul but surely your (self-confessed) poor showing on these "big hold" problems suggests that strength isn't your weakness, but techniques is, and maybe you would be well served by working your technique on these types of problems?
Of course there is a seperate debate about indoor technique translating to outdoors or not, personally I think there is transfer as after all climbing is just moving between a series of points whether you are inside or out. However that discussion is a long one which I lack the inclination for entering into.
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Nik's saying you're shit, Paul_.
Maybe you should discuss this at dawn, like gentlemen? :)
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For the love of god Houdini please get bored of your avatar and change it.....
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For the love of god Houdini please get bored of your avatar and change it.....
2nded
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What's not to like about a multi-coloured glowing, f.l.a.s.h.i.n.g skull?! :whistle:
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EDIT - skulls 8)
Carry on.
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Somehow I knew it would come back and bite me on the bum!
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I like you Houd but those skulls are tearing my eyes apart.
For the love of God change it!
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Look, will you guys just get back on topic. ::)
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you
You are. The 'big hold' and 'volume problems' are separate. I get completely spanked on one volume only problem (the £££ problem, zero ascents so far I believe?) and haven't yet done P14 which is mainly volumes (this WILL go).
There was no poor show on the 'big hold' (remainder of the) problems.
I didn't manage to string the green (hardest of the others) together from a sitter.
Clearer? I hope so as explaining further is ridiculous.
Volumes are a weakness of mine, granted, and if you can find me a triangular rock type then I'll jump to it and worship some kind of tetrahedral god. If not then I'll stick to ironing out more useful technical flaws. ;)
In the end I don't really see what any of this has to do with the price of fish/tea/coffee/bread etc. my first observation was nothing other than correct!
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Do you have a lanky mans sequence there then? as for me its currently sit start (on redundant leg to be able to reach!), left hand pinching block RH on poor sidepull, rockover to RH crimp, flick LH to u/cut. RH up for next hold, high foot and flag, get LH on hold right next to it. RH pinch LH top.
Not a lanky sequence but I was too bunched to do the move off the undercut going with RH so the sequence I worked out was. Start as you say but once I've flicked LH into u/cut I rock LF onto starting sidepull and make a hard pull to get the right of the two holds as a pinch with LH, step through RF to block, RH pinch, top. Only done it in two bits so far as the rockover move is quite hard for me but it's a really good problem like this. If the top pinch was a bit shitter then it would be even better and quite hard overall.
Went again yesterday and made a couple of observations. Middle orange problem is better without the intermediate as Paul says but as you can just miss it out it doesn't really need altering - good problem. RH pocket problem is really good. RH orange problem - this seems hard. Not sure if you're meant to go LH to two(ish) finger crimp RH to good hold at the start but this seems very tough (this is a good thing!) and the big move to the sidepull above is no pushover either. Nice. Apart from this I'm not sure if there is anything hard on there as I've done or got close to everything I've tried in a couple of sessions. Assume some harder stuff will be part of the "work in progress". Oh and in two sessions I haven't smashed my elbow or shin on anything. It's all good.
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a few more problems appeared on the training board yesterday. a red, red+white and a black. only tried one but the others look OK, the red+white looks ubercrimpy but about reasonably comfy. (apparently the sidewall is out on the black).
theres a new easy circuit too.
and the intermediate on the orange problem that paul was banging on about is now gone. i'm not convinced this is an improvement myself, anyone who wanted to miss it out could have done anyway.
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This may have been mentioned already. Was there an original idea that there would be guest setters on this board? Signature problems or something? Maybe some of the guys on here could set one or two problems themselves (with approval of course) and work each others problems.
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i think paulB set at the red problem thats still on there from the last lot (left had side of the board,i like this one), there may have been more.
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a few more problems appeared on the training board yesterday. a red, red+white and a black. only tried one but the others look OK, the red+white looks ubercrimpy but about reasonably comfy. (apparently the sidewall is out on the black).
Cool. 8)
theres a new easy circuit too.
:'(
I'm assuming that the LH orange problem is one that has been "tweaked" since it was originally set? Paul described the finish as "trivial" whereas I would describe it as "crux" or "fucking desperate" in comparison to the start. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I can't touch the last move and it seems way harder than the rest of the problem.
Agree about the intermediate on the central orange. Did it with and without it and it's a good problem either way.
Getting the hang of the RH orange with the little hold. This is an excellent problem but my only concern is that the little crimp is going to be unusable once it's been stood on/not cleaned a bit (which will probably be before I do it >:().
That red problem is Paul's and it is very good. Didn't travs have something to do with some of the new setting too? :-\
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I'm assuming that the LH orange problem is one that has been "tweaked" since it was originally set? Paul described the finish as "trivial" whereas I would describe it as "crux" or "fucking desperate" in comparison to the start. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I can't touch the last move and it seems way harder than the rest of the problem.
yeah that had a couple of holds swapped over, now nails at the top. luckily i got the flash before it changed - can i still keep the tick?
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Out of interest what sort of grade range are we talking for these new up problems?
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There's no topo yet and I'm shit at grading but I'd say they seem to be from about 6C to 7C+.
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Could be there's at least one I can do then. :thumbsup:
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The green and pink spotty one is the easiest I've done and is good.
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a few more problems appeared on the training board yesterday. a red, red+white and a black. only tried one but the others look OK, the red+white looks ubercrimpy but about reasonably comfy. (apparently the sidewall is out on the black).
Went on Friday. Very good conditions made for a great session. The two new black problems seem to have at least one very hard move on each of them. Likewise the new red problem which I couldn't really work out (it's either stupidly reachy or really bunched up?). The red and white crimpy thing felt hard until I got warmed up. It's a nice problem. There's also a new green thing left hand end which I had a quick go at but didn't do. All in all, loads to do.
theres a new easy circuit too.
The old easy circuit's been taken down though so this is no big deal. :)
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any news on further development on the training board? I know the idea was to see how it went an further tweak. I'd say that the existing stuff is fine and that what we need now is just more problems on there, theres space for a few, and if you're on there trying to make up your own shit I tend to find big blank spaces where theres nothing to go for, or nowt bar jugs. a good overall spread would be nice.
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Time to resurrect this thread. After much debate and ting we have finally found some space to crowbar a 45 degree board into The Works. Work starts Monday - the easy side of the campus board will be out of action for a day or two, but the harder side is about to get a face lift (plastic pipes off, the nice rungs from the other side move into this space, and those massive sharp rungs that face the comp wall go onto Sams wood burner). In place of the easy side of the campus board will be a 45 degree board courtesy of Moon Climbing. Ben has had considerable input into this board, and will continue to do so in the form of providing a good deal of the holds for it and setting on it. Wooden holds have been offered from those kind gentlemen at Beastmaker (who are taking their board down and are looking to re-house some of their nasty little holds).
There won't be any jugs on this board - it is specifically aimed at top-end climbers only. Elitist? Too right.
We loose one side of the campus board, but finally get our 45 board, and the other side of the campus board will get a good facelift and refurb. The fingerboards will be rehoused on a new purpose-built beam near the seating area. This seems to be the best solution to the shortcomings in our hardcore training facilities I have found short of renting another building, and I think it should be a winner. It should be open soon - check the webshite for more details.
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Dynamite. Was wondering what all them metal poles were going to be used for when I was there tonight.
What's the plan for the current training board, keep it as a mix of circuits and problems or purely circuits?
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Ooooh how I resisted using the quote function I just don't know. :-[
Nice Percy, Sam and Graeme. Its good to see the works evolving, I look forward to seeing the finish boards.
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Good stuff.
What's the plan for the current training board, keep it as a mix of circuits and problems or purely circuits?
Circuit me up to the MAX!
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In all fairness Paul, they've probably only dont it to save themselves some earache from you ;)
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good effort. just wish you'd build it inside the m60
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Keep away with your dirty circuits Alex..... grrrrr
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Nice one, Percy and Co.!
You guys deserve a lot of credit for continual improvements (not just this) ever since the Works opened. Keep up the good work!
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Nice one, Percy and Co.!
You guys deserve a lot of credit for continual improvements (not just this) ever since the Works opened. Keep up the good work!
:agree: :bow:
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Sorry, sorry, sorry, and again sorry in advance for even thinking of writing this...BUT :spank:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gWt9r7r9qnM/SYBmK96GS3I/AAAAAAAAAH4/jrcHovDrJYE/s1600-h/moonboard.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gWt9r7r9qnM/SYBmK96GS3I/AAAAAAAAAH4/jrcHovDrJYE/s1600-h/moonboard.JPG)
is the proximity of the window/wall and the fact that its one campus rung less wide than the campus board structure on the right not going to cut the useability of this board significantly?
The school moon board suffered from being right next to the wall and the right hand side of the 50' wasn't used all that much again due to the wall...?
are the holds going to be fixed or changed (like the old moon set up)?
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space next to a wall is pretty much deadspace, but just cos the plywood is there doesn't mean you have to have holds on it or use it. as long as problems aren't being set right in the corner it shouldn't be an issue.
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will the remaining campus board stuff be moved back too - the new 'wall' below (i.e. back of 45deg board) looks pretty close in? ripe for blood and toenail mash.
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will the remaining campus board stuff be moved back too - the new 'wall' below (i.e. back of 45deg board) looks pretty close in? ripe for blood and toenail mash.
I think that's just the photo, that horizontal under there was pretty wide, I bet there will be plenty of space (more than the Foundry one, say).
I think Paul is right, it does limit the options of the board, but it's better than nothing. And it could easily be extended out and the pullup bar re-homed.
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will the remaining campus board stuff be moved back too - the new 'wall' below (i.e. back of 45deg board) looks pretty close in? ripe for blood and toenail mash.
I think that's just the photo, that horizontal under there was pretty wide, I bet there will be plenty of space (more than the Foundry one, say).
nah, clocked it last night. looked to be less than the matrix's 'campus board'...
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I think Paul is right, it does limit the options of the board, but it's better than nothing. And it could easily be extended out and the pullup bar re-homed.
Yeah, I just thought I'd say what I was thinking in case it all got built and THEN I said something/made reference to/ etc.
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will the remaining campus board stuff be moved back too - the new 'wall' below (i.e. back of 45deg board) looks pretty close in? ripe for blood and toenail mash.
I think that's just the photo, that horizontal under there was pretty wide, I bet there will be plenty of space (more than the Foundry one, say).
Tried it briefly tonight and your legs hit the back of the 45 degree board! I guess it may need looking at although if you start higher up the board it may not be so much of an issue.
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could be solved by just removing the first 3 rungs - i mean how many people go higher than 9 on there anyway? I bet the wood at the top sees less use than an armish iPod.
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could be solved by just removing the first 3 rungs - i mean how many people go higher than 9 on there anyway? I bet the wood at the top sees less use than an armish iPod.
Possibly although one unique thing about the works campus board is the ability to do 1,4,7,10 rather than just 1,4,7
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since it goes up to 14 losing the bottom 3 would not be a problem. i'd get a nosebleed if i went up to 10 as it is.
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might be a tad reachy to start :shrug:
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Fitting the 45 board in anywhere in the Works was always going to be awkward. I think the solution we have found works OK, but its not perfect. To avoid bumping your tootsies on the backboard when using the campus board, you will need to start on rung 2 instead of rung 1. I'm not going to take any rungs off, as some people will need the first rung to get established - I'm thinking of the shorties here. I'm sure starting a rung or two higher up sholdn't cause too many problems!
We are going to put a nice protective grid over the window left of the 45 to prevent any mishaps as well as extending the mats. Fingers boards and pull-up bars are to be repositioned elsewhere. None of it is completed yet and won't be for another 2 weeks whilst we're finishing off. When its done it should all be good.
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could be solved by just removing the first 3 rungs - i mean how many people go higher than 9 on there anyway? I bet the wood at the top sees less use than an armish iPod.
Possibly although one unique thing about the works campus board is the ability to do 1,4,7,10 rather than just 1,4,7
Really it needs to go to 11
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I'm thinking of the shorties here.
you're only human.
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Joe - why, so you can struggle on 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11
Whoops, sorry I thought this was the British Slagging Thread ;D
Ps reason we added the 45 degree board is because the old campus board wasn't rated for Joe and Seb being on the board simultaneously. And we know that neither Joe nor Seb can hang around on a 45 board long enough for us to be worried. :alky:
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Fitting the 45 board in anywhere in the Works was always going to be awkward. I think the solution we have found works OK, but its not perfect.....
Fairy nuff!
With regards to the holds Percy; are they going to be fixed? or set problems? or a mix of the two? or....?
(Genuinely psyched to try this thing out when its done :thumbsup: )
Graeme - my experience of Joe is that he ADDS weight on steep boards, especially basic knitwear. I swear everytime I saw him at the board he was hanging that move with a massive belt.
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Paul - my experience of Joe is enough to get me killed :alky:
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wrong Jo... le saucisson was on my mind - That doesn't read well...
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Joe Le saucisson, nae, more like Joe La salsiccia.
Sorry but don't do Albanian
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Fixed.
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You've always got sausage on your mind Paul you filthy imp.
I love Joe Picalli to bits, but in my entire life I have never seen him ascend the school board with a weight belt attached. Le Sausage's image, on the other hand, is burnt into my retina - stripped to his Y-fronts, blind fold and with 6kilos doing problems on the 50.
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I can remove your retinas with a rusty spoon if you like. :shrug:
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Le Sausage's image, on the other hand, is burnt into my retina - stripped to his Y-fronts, blind fold and with 6kilos doing problems on the 50.
which hard banisters was this?
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Le Sausage's image, on the other hand, is burnt into my retina - stripped to his Y-fronts, blind fold and with 6kilos doing problems on the 50.
yeah baby!!!
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You sick fuck Jerry.
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word, checked out the campus board situation last night. it is going to be a problem I recon. its very matrix-esqu at the moment. starting on rung 3 i was still clattering into the bottom wall, i found it really gets in the way. it would be even worse for doing stuff like 1-4-3 touches, even if you did 3-6-5 touches probably. luckily my membership period runs out next week so i'll probably not use the campus board seriously again. its a shame, since this does spoil it a bit. if the bottom wall was say 12" further away that would have made all the difference, but i don't know what other things you had to work around. i trust the new board is worth this sacrifice though.
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Well I don't quite agree with this Dave. I think it depends on how much you bend your thighs and kick your feet whilst campussing. I have tried the board a couple of times and it was fine most of the time. I think it's more psychological and as you get used to the position of the board you will adjust your body position to ensure that you miss it. In reality the exercise will be more benefical with less leg bend as it will be more about pure arm and back strength and less about assisted momentum from lower limb movement, this can only be a good thing.
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someone of my height needs to have legs bent to keep them off the floor neil. i can hold the bottom run whilst still being knelt on the floor.
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Well that's ridiculous and you should be banned from campussing, infact at that height you should be banned from climbing full stop.
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Or maybe the guys could get hold of a very tall, thin building and build a 'Supersize Works' for the tall people? Leave us shorties to get on with it ;)
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start further up, what are you doing swinging your legs underneath a campus board for gods sake.
all people seem to do is pick fault with the place then declare it rather loudly on the net, hiding under the guise of constructive critism. go to the edge or stay on your own boards if you feel so strongly. i don't think the place is perfect but i'm not going to share my thoughts with 16,000 others
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Well that's ridiculous and you should be banned from campussing, infact at that height you should be banned from climbing full stop.
travs only comes on here to rage at the tall.........
(http://i44.tinypic.com/f3ga6c.jpg)
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start further up, what are you doing swinging your legs underneath a campus board for gods sake.
sorry if everyone suddenly got down with this whole wheelchair campussing vibe without me noticing, but everyone I see on it certainly doesn't hold their lower body rigid and vertical like a fucking gymnast.
all people seem to do is pick fault with the place then declare it rather loudly on the net, hiding under the guise of constructive critism. go to the edge or stay on your own boards if you feel so strongly. i don't think the place is perfect but i'm not going to share my thoughts with 16,000 others
you just have shared your thoughts with 16,000 others.
i don't see how people not giving feedback is of any help to anyone. if people didn't give their opinion "under the guise of constructive critism" then the works probably wouldn't be about to have a potentially superb steep board, instead we could just sycophantically pretend the place was perfect from the outset and moan about it in private. the reason you hear about the faults and not the plusses is the faults are relativley minor and few, and not obvious to the casual observer, but the plusses are many and obvious. would anyone read a thread that just contained people dishing out plaudits?
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would anyone read a thread that just contained people dishing out plaudits?
:whistle: (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,10790.0.html)
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why not, they read you ripping the shit out of it with every post
i didn't share my thoughts with 16000 others at all, all they know is that i don't think the place is perfect, nor do i think anything else is perfect. i've not picked faults over various things to a cast of 1000's
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bully for you!
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Will anyone be going there now we've all got Beastmakers?
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I'm sure a few deluded idiots will still be psyched for actually going climbing.
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what, you mean outdoors?
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The new board (which was widely voted for on this forum, by the way) has had to fit into a very limited space. If I move it any closer to the comp wall to create more space under the campus board (so Dave can windmill his massive legs wildly while performing 1-2-3) then it becomes a hazard - climbers falling on to one another whilst climbing on both walls at the same time, etc. If I move it further the other way (away from the comp wall), then the campus board will become completely useless. Therefore it has to go where it is. It needs the bottom section of the board because this is an integral part of the structure (the board has to sit on the floor, otherwise it will fall over). I know its changed things, but the problems are not insurmountable, and starting a rung or two higher and maintaining a bit of body tension is all thats needed to campus happily. Even I tested it (I NEVER normally campus - elbows are too old, biceps too weak, etc..) and found it to be ok - different to before, granted, but still ok. Christ, we could even put a couple of footholds on the new bit under the campus board so that people can use the campus board with a bit of help from their feet....
When I return from a much needed break in a weeks time the board will get finished, and the master plan to fit new finger boards and pull-up bars in a new space will happen. This will enable you to do front levers and all the sorts of exercises that the position of the new board has currently curtailed. It will all be OK - don't panic!
And, Dobbin, are you going to have 3 beastmakers mounted on a board at 1-4-7 spacings?
I think not.
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it really is amazing how much people bitch and moan, guess some you guys in Sheffield don't realise what amazing facilities you have on your doorstep, I'm from the grim south in case you were wondering
(sitting back waiting to be puntered, Dr)
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what, you mean outdoors?
And in.
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it really is amazing how much people bitch and moan, guess some you guys in Sheffield don't realise what amazing facilities you have on your doorstep, I'm from the grim south in case you were wondering
(sitting back waiting to be puntered, Dr)
It was hinted to me my Mr.Dense that ALL of my posts on this thread are fairly -ve. This wasn't intended, I thought it was worth noting any concerns before the whole thing was finished an un-tweakable. If the tweaks aren't possible then so be it. If I'd been down recently and chatting to Sam I'd have said the same thing, probably more tactfully.
Dr T. read this again:
The new board (which was widely voted for on this forum, by the way)
If nobody had commented on the lack of this board, chances are it might still be missing.
And, Dobbin, are you going to have 3 beastmakers mounted on a board at 1-4-7 spacings?
I think not.
Now that will be elitist ;).
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And, Dobbin, are you going to have 3 beastmakers mounted on a board at 1-4-7 spacings?
Is it legal to own 3 Beastmakers?
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Dr T. read this again:
The new board (which was widely voted for on this forum, by the way)
If nobody had commented on the lack of this board, chances are it might still be missing.
I wasn't saying that all of this was bitching and moaning, a lot is constructive I just wanted to put in a in a note to try and put some perspective on it all ;D
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looks like the worx peeps have done the right thing (I thought it was alright as it was perc? ;) ) and changed the campusboard section, moving it 18" out from the bottom wall - good stuff fellas, looks rad. nice to see the drainpipes have gone, should help keep that area free of the circus-skills droogs. wicked. (if you guys could find a way to "lose" the dip horse, that'd be great too.....)
http://www.climbingworks.com/blog/2009/02/11/#147 (http://www.climbingworks.com/blog/2009/02/11/#147)
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It was alright for me, but I crumbled to the body-tensionless masses and gave everyone the benefit of my aditional 18 inches. Nedwin van der Free-Willy has been in working his magic on the 45 degree board, so by now it should be covered in unfeasibly small wooden matchsticks for you all to get injured on.
Enjoy!
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have been on the 45 tonight, and even with what is presumably only about half the total holds, its a winner. if the rumour that theres gonnd be loads more wooden holds is true then all the better.
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Yowzer!
Gonna have a look in a bit. Unfortunately it may well just be a look as I'm full of cold. :(
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I rarely go in the works, apologies if this has been mentioned before.
New 45 looks great, what an improvement, feedback works etc. And wow, a Beastmaker. What? This is well easy, I can hold all of them, seemingly forever. Because MY KNEES ARE ON THE FLOOR.
Pretty sure I'm only about the same height as Percy. A simple mistake to fix.
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I rarely go in the works, apologies if this has been mentioned before.
New 45 looks great, what an improvement, feedback works etc. And wow, a Beastmaker. What? This is well easy, I can hold all of them, seemingly forever. Because MY KNEES ARE ON THE FLOOR.
Pretty sure I'm only about the same height as Percy. A simple mistake to fix.
Cut your legs off at the knee?
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The 45 looks quite good. I did a little bit on it but illness and dodgy feeling finger meant not much. One thing, do there really need to be some big almost volume-esque holds on there that you could get both hands on? More smaller wooden holds instead perhaps? As an elite (and elitist!) training facility I would have hoped to struggle to get up it using pretty much everything on there but instead this would have been very easy and even just using the wooden holds up the middle made for a very good if only 7B ish (?) problem. Slightly discouraging as it meant that there was a gang of 14 year olds attempting to slap their way up it using everything (this sounds elitist)...........
There won't be any jugs on this board - it is specifically aimed at top-end climbers only. Elitist? Too right.
I realise that it is still in the development phase and am not complaining as I reckon it's going to be excellent. :)
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I rarely go in the works, apologies if this has been mentioned before.
New 45 looks great, what an improvement, feedback works etc. And wow, a Beastmaker. What? This is well easy, I can hold all of them, seemingly forever. Because MY KNEES ARE ON THE FLOOR.
Pretty sure I'm only about the same height as Percy. A simple mistake to fix.
Cut your legs off at the knee?
I take it the finger board is the right height for you then short---arse?
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I rarely go in the works, apologies if this has been mentioned before.
New 45 looks great, what an improvement, feedback works etc. And wow, a Beastmaker. What? This is well easy, I can hold all of them, seemingly forever. Because MY KNEES ARE ON THE FLOOR.
Pretty sure I'm only about the same height as Percy. A simple mistake to fix.
Cut your legs off at the knee?
I take it the finger board is the right height for you then short---arse?
:lol: no idea haven't been on it yet
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Slightly discouraging as it meant that there was a gang of 14 year olds attempting to slap their way up it using everything (this sounds elitist)...........
I don't think your ever going to get away from this. From my hazy memory I think even the the school board could be slapped up by youthful exuberant 14 year olds if they'd been allowed to go there.
I spent a couple of hours on the board the other evening and in that short space of time we had a selection of 7a to 7c-ish problems worked out using mostly the wooden holds. I think the Works have done a brilliant job in creating this board and it adds another good training opportunity to the already excellent wall.
I would however (as per Jasper's post) like to see more wooden holds on the board as it would allow training with thin/painful skin.
Percy, Sam and Graeme keep up the good work!
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More wood? Done.
Smaller holds? Done.
More rungs on the campus board? Done and still being done (medium rungs are on order)
If you can't get stronger/more injured-er in there then you're not trying hard enough.
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More wood? Done.
Smaller holds? Done.
Fantastic that was quick work! :great:
Have you had any thoughts on starting a problem book so we can amass a library of decent problems we've made up? (i've noticed you've given numbers and letters to the corresponding rows and columns of holds so recording problems will be very easy :thumbsup: )
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Good stuff.
By the sound of things the problem book etc is all under control.......
http://beastmakerblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/amalcgamation.html (http://beastmakerblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/amalcgamation.html)
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Slightly discouraging as it meant that there was a gang of 14 year olds attempting to slap their way up it using everything (this sounds elitist)...........
I don't think your ever going to get away from this. From my hazy memory I think even the the school board could be slapped up by youthful exuberant 14 year olds if they'd been allowed to go there.
I refute that Tom you westie. Chalk and Blow - the easiest of problems on the school board, was about font 6c, and would have stopped most of these slappy young guys (young ones ref), unless of course they be called Tyler. Anyway, reminiscence aside, I went on the MotherBoard with Nedwin and Back-Two-Dan last night and I thought it was brilliant. Its like a supersized, slightly easier version of their board - and I love it. The reason I so rate it is because of the poor mahogany foot jibs and the symettry. Its a shame that punters will miss this genius, but theres no way to police it or to enforce the rules, and this isnt the works' fault, its punters being punters.
Anyway, I am excited about this board, and I am almost hoping for rain so I can excuse myself and get on it!
Oh, and thankyou works people. Is good.
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Its a shame that punters will miss this genius, but theres no way to police it or to enforce the rules, and this isnt the works' fault, its punters being punters.
A big fuck off sign (as mentioned on the beastblog) will be a good start though.
I too am looking forward to climbing struggling like fuck on this board. The symmetry thing is a great idea. Out of interest, what sort of Font grade is a Beastmaker 1b?
Now I just need to work out what's going on with this dodgy finger........
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Out of interest, what sort of Font grade is a Beastmaker 1b?
its not about the math, man.
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Just interested in whether the easiest problems will be too hard for me or not. I suppose I will find out soon enough!
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[I too am looking forward to climbing struggling like fuck on this board. The symmetry thing is a great idea. Out of interest, what sort of Font grade is a Beastmaker 1b?
1b is a bit harder than 1a (which is climbing to the top of the board using everything). 1a is not so easy, and seems to be the easiest way of keeping 'punters' off the board, although it won't stop many of the lower holds getting chalked up even if they can't pull on them.
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As an elite punter I'll be making a complete nuisance of myself on this new board thing. Can't wait.
:guilty:
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1b is a bit harder than 1a (which is climbing to the top of the board using everything). 1a is not so easy, and seems to be the easiest way of keeping 'punters' off the board, although it won't stop many of the lower holds getting chalked up even if they can't pull on them.
Makes sense.
Time to..........
(http://i44.tinypic.com/6jhm3k.jpg)
;D
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Out of interest, what sort of Font grade is a Beastmaker 1b?
I believe you're of normal stature Jasper; unless they raise the Beastmaker up a good few inches its useless anyway.
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Out of interest, what sort of Font grade is a Beastmaker 1b?
I believe you're of normal stature Jasper; unless they raise the Beastmaker up a good few inches its useless anyway.
I think the Beastmaker grades are referring to the problems on the woody as described in the blog article linked a few posts back.
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I was just thinking we needed a few new grading scales, I've been encouraging The Castle to experiment with their own grades for ages.
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I believe you're of normal stature Jasper; unless they raise the Beastmaker up a good few inches its useless anyway.
Its been moved, so now you can stop whinging and start training.
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Great, I'll fill up the car with diesel.
Seriously though, its really commendable that you guys are listening and to people's feedback.
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Good job with both the new board and moving the campus section out.
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Percy seems to forgotten to mention that he couldn't work 1a today ie couldn't get up the board at all. Also Prince Harry had to work it from a standing start as did Princess Leah. I obviously haven't pulled on yet but due to my negative weight I am expecting to float up it ;D
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Good job with the board big cheeses, Dan and Ned its really good. I understand they still have some tinkering to do which I'm sure will only improve things (well unless they break my already "classic" problems)...
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It's very very good.
The shitty foothold thing - genius.
The symmetry thing - genius.
The rules re the above - genius.
The wooden holds - top quality.
The scope for loads and loads of really hard problems - massive.
It totally highlights my piss weak arms and hopefully that'll mean quick gains but this board is so good that I don't mind being a 1b punter for a while. In a session I managed to work out an "easy" problem which I did, a harder version of it that I got the moves on but will take a bit to link and a harder version again which will be an excellent long term project. Marvellous.
I was talking to Gav Ellis there yesterday and we were discussing how things had come full circle with boards. We started of using any footholds, putting in big egyptians and trying to pull on the smallest holds. Then moved to doing stuff more toe on but SHAFT so still a lot of decent stuff for feet and now the logical progression has been made. Use shit footholds at all times so even pulling on decent holds requires twice the power and tension. Simple but it's taken 18 years to get there.
There's just one thing that is a concern with this board. As Dobbin mentioned (and I spoke to Graeme briefly about yesterday) people need to stick to the rules. Although the wooden holds seem very well made they will still get ruined pretty quickly if idiots start scrabbling their feet all over them. The posters with the rules are very clear and make their point perfectly when read but they're not that big or obvious. As we joked about Graeme, I would seriously consider having a big fuck off DO NOT CLIMB ON THIS BOARD UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THIS sign pointing to the rules. I know nothing's goiong to be 100% effective but I do think that would help (along with anyone who is seen standing on the handholds being shouted at and generally humiliated).
Anyway, well done to everyone involved. There really is something for everyone at The Works now.
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In a session I managed to work out an "easy" problem which I did
But did you do your easy problem both sides? No tick if you haven't done its mirror image. Damn this symmetry thing - all it does is highlight how much stronger my right arm is than my left (which isn't saying much).
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As Dobbin mentioned (and I spoke to Graeme briefly about yesterday) people need to stick to the rules. Although the wooden holds seem very well made they will still get ruined pretty quickly if idiots start scrabbling their feet all over them. The posters with the rules are very clear and make their point perfectly when read but they're not that big or obvious. As we joked about Graeme, I would seriously consider having a big fuck off DO NOT CLIMB ON THIS BOARD UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THIS sign pointing to the rules. I know nothing's goiong to be 100% effective but I do think that would help (along with anyone who is seen standing on the handholds being shouted at and generally humiliated).
shirley there's still a place for hand-for-feet problems on that board, for example if you're wanting to train very big moves? afterall using hands for feet didn't seem to do anyone at the schoolroom any harm. if you set hand-for-feet problems with just plastic footholds, or wooden ones nicely finshed and not prone to splintering then it should be fine.
don't get me wrong, i like using just tiny footholds only for feet (i did this exclusivley for 3 years in my cellar) but you also want to be doing some big power throwy moves too, and bunched-up rockover-onto-your-handhold type things too. we need to be pissing in every available pot with this board.
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I would seriously consider having a big fuck off DO NOT CLIMB ON THIS BOARD UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THIS sign pointing to the rules. .
Done. In fact double done ;D
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I dont reckon there is imho. Had we at the school had all bad foot jibs then we would have been stronger still and had better tension and footwork. What jasper is saying is that its evolution, we started with some bad foot holds at the board, but because it was already established so it never really took off. I also think its all or nothing, theres no degrees - i mean, you cant start saying its ok to only stand on some of the handholds, i think its all or nothing. And nothing should be the answer. Clifford and Birch used to swear by this bad feet thing and they didnt turn out so bad, ned and dan etc etc.
I also reckon that theres plenty of big moves on the comp wall and elsewhere throughout the wall that if thats what you want to do you can still find it. Finally, you can still do big moves off bad foot holds. Honestly, I accept that I might be in the honeymoon period and rose tinting it, but I really think we should stick to the foot jibs only for feet rules. Its the way!
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But did you do your easy problem both sides? No tick if you haven't done its mirror image. Damn this symmetry thing - all it does is highlight how much stronger my right arm is than my left (which isn't saying much).
Oh I'm not claiming any ticks. The easy problem was just the easiest way me and Gav could work out to get up the board so the "mirror image" would probably be about four grades harder. The minor differences in the resin holds you'd have to use would probably make that much difference. The harder versions have exact mirror images though so I know where this is heading.
dave - I get you but the genius behind people having to stick to the rules is that it makes the thing quite difficult to get up using everything. This will discourage the scrabbling hordes which has to be a good thing. Plus it makes everything so hard for me that it's opened up a whole new world of pain!
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He'll be wanting to know you mantled next! ;)
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I tried topping it out but got a splinter in my arm and banged my head on the scaffolding as I was scrabbling over the top of the board. Bicycled my feet all over the little wooden handholds but it didn't help much.
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Been to check out the new Core holds today. These are by far the best holds I've seen and felt.
Would be nice to see some of these down the works, supporting local business and all that. Question?
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but I really think we should stick to the foot jibs only for feet rules. Its the way!
I completely agree with that. There's no other way of regulating it. Even robust looking wooden holds break when the strongest (fattest) people push off them.
Had we at the school had all bad foot jibs then we would have been stronger
I have to say that I still feel SHAFT (& 56') will give much better power gains than foot jibs only. Think of Stuey and PP for examples and then try and cover that board in 3 moves from sitting.
Having said that I think the board is a whole lot more relevant to actual climbing i.e. it makes it harder in a realistic manner. Its like a giant fingerboard and I like it!!!
Been to check out the new Core holds today. These are by far the best holds I've seen and felt.
Would be nice to see some of these down the works, supporting local business and all that. Question?
Aren't there some up there already? the blue ones on the comp wall?
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Just wanted to say I really really enjoyed the green/pink-ish spotty traverses. I'd love to see more of them. :thumbsup:
I know it's tricky as they cross lots of other problems and when it's busy that's not ideal but during the quiet times they are great fun.
Thanks guys for keeping it fun. :great:
John
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Been to check out the new Core holds today. These are by far the best holds I've seen and felt.
Would be nice to see some of these down the works, supporting local business and all that. Question?
Word. Have got some on my board, and they are spot on with design and texture. CityBloc are already using them - get with the programme
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Done - should have a delivery from the Core boys on Monday.
Anything else anybody wants?
Foot rub?
Free beer?
Beautiful ladies/men?
All these things will be available at the CWIF - 7th March
Flippin'eck, we're good to you lot...... ;)
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get with the programme
We talked with Core last week and were still waiting for a response. Strange, you would have thought they would bite our hands off for a bespoke set of colours for the CWIF.
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Done - should have a delivery from the Core boys on Monday.
We talked with Core last week and were still waiting for a response.
:-\ :-\ :-\
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The thing with bespoke colours in that sort of material means muchos extra labour,cost and mess.For a bespoke order you got to be willing to pay bespoke prices especially in the climbing hold industry where nobody can afford to offer charity.
If you did I reckon they'd be well keen like you say. Not that I want to talk on their behalf or owt.
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Anything else anybody wants?
Went on the board last night with some UKB regulars all of whom, seemed to be very pleased.
Its a great all round board and already has some nice problems. Everyone was reading the notices and a few pretenders quickly realised they weren't going to get off the floor and moved on, so the system works.
(ps - my fingers are creaky tonight!)
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Done - should have a delivery from the Core boys on Monday.
We talked with Core last week and were still waiting for a response.
:-\ :-\ :-\
Percy rang them today to place the order. We had assumed they would get back to us after they said they would.
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in the climbing hold industry where nobody can afford to offer charity.
We weren't asking for charity.
And we are very 'charitable', see what we are doing with the CWIF
If you did
We did
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Done - should have a delivery from the Core boys on Monday.
Anything else anybody wants?
Foot rub?
Free beer?
Beautiful ladies/men?
All these things will be available at the CWIF - 7th March
Flippin'eck, we're good to you lot...... ;)
there are not enough watermellons at the works, get it fucking sorted post-haste.
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there are not enough watermellons at the works, get it fucking sorted post-haste.
I will let Percy reply to this one ;)
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If you can't spell it, we're not getting them in
there are not enough watermellons at the works, get it fucking sorted post-haste.
I'm sure this is a direct quote of rule 47a on the Motherboard prime-directives poster
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Yes, jolly spiffing work with the new board. I think the advantage of having such a massive area in total, is that you can dedicate space to specific things (like the new board, the campus board, and the kids area). I wasn't a huge fan of The Works when it opened, now I'd be buying a membership if I hadn't just bought a new house...
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If you can't spell it, we're not getting them in
fair dos. I can however spell "thonged-up honeys waving palm leaves shouting 'go dave, go dave, get busy' and brushing holds for me".
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Sorry, poor capitalisation rules out your request.
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If you can't spell it, we're not getting them in
fair dos. I can however spell "thonged-up honeys waving palm leaves shouting 'go dave, go dave, get busy' and brushing holds for me".
Percy has just asked Leah whether she will do the thonged-up thing. He now has a black eye
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If you can't spell it, we're not getting them in
fair dos. I can however spell "thonged-up homos waving palm leaves shouting 'go dave, go dave, get busy' and brushing holds for me".
wearing leather caps and big moustaches - cool
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Went down to the works today for the first time in a year or so, and was v. impressed with the changes. Board/campus board are both a massive improvement. Nice one guys.
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I fucking love the board. In three sessions I've noticed gains already. The easiest problems are still desperate for me but yesterday they felt at least a grade less desperate than last week. The rules appear to be working and keeping the punters at bay. The shitty foothold rule and the fact that there are no easy ways up to work the top moves on things make getting a problem linked so hard. Ned was doing some hard stuff but the same applies whatever the grade on there as we discussed. You have to be so specific with your foot placements or you've fucked it. It's great.
;D
Brush the holds people.
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Any chance of a picture of these fabbled foot holds? I'm intrigued as everyone is banging on about how ace they are.
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I think the recipe is simple:
Small block of wood (preferably slippy)
Round off anything remotely positive
Come back from a trip strong and decide they are too grippy
Get over zealous with the sanding
Realise that you now have a few holds that your foot WILL pop off!!!
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Cheers Paul. Just out of interest how small? I've got a set of Dylans Slap footholds (that are ace), are the wooden things a similar size, but without the positive edges? Or are they a bit bigger, but very poor and slopey?
Think I may head down to the workshop this evening and get busy with saw and sandpaper...
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About 40mm x 25mm x 5mm at a guess?
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I'm getting visions of a selection of greased-up half spheres the size of postage stamps on a 45deg wall....
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Re el foot jibs, when they were on the beastmaker HQ board me and dylan measured them. And I think they were either 8 or 10mm. But heavily rounded. 10mm sounds a lot but isnt, not on that angle and when the edge has been taken off it.
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They are very similar to the old S7 / Pusher 'tech feet', great profile and excellent on a steep board, pitty some of teh old school holds aren't resurrected.... :-\
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Cheers Gent, I'm off to the lab...
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More importantly, the footholds are made of mahogany - very hard, very fine grain, and therefore very slippery. Only the best for the motherboard.
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Sourced from sustainable forests of course. Honest. No really.
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Sourced from sustainable forests of course. Honest. No really.
What? All of those footholds, are from a sustainable Forest? Why bother? Might as well have just stolen a twig from a small tree!
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Very impressed with the new core holds, nice designs and nice feel to them. The Motherboard is seriously hard but strangely addictive. I declare myself well and truly puntered! A thumbs up to the guys & girls up there. Irrespective of the grade the probs are high quality and always well thought out.
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good job you took the time to measure them footjibs dobbin. either 8 or 10mm. what did you measure them with, a bamboo pole and guessed?
by the by i now love that people think this is the next best thing, and way better for your core than feet follow. no way is better than the other, just one suits people a lot more. i like footjibs a lot better since for my style (ahem) it mimics climbing outdoors a lot more and i don't have to struggle to get my giant legs onto a bunched hand hold, which is where my core is really quite pathetic.
the motherboard does look ace.
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Dylan measured them with his cock, and thats 8mm flaccid, 10mm at other times. Hence the confusion, he was in an undetermined state of arousal.
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You can't measure anything properly with a lazy lamb!
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been trying to find a large enough picture of the motherboard to appreciate this discussion, anyone know of any links to one?
Cheers
Tim
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1eJ8IlqgYmE/SZmRrK8LEZI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/E3NDMtXUQ7U/s200/ned_45_setting.JPG)
(http://img.ukclimbing.com/i/109960.jpg)
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climbed on the board last night. i'm thinking of how to fit the words fucking and awesome into a sentence. all that needs to be done with it is for dan and ned to take off every hold that hasn't got a mirror image
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i'm thinking of how to fit the words fucking and awesome into a sentence.
Presumably because you've never done so before. High praise indeed. I'm well keen to have a go, but my weekends are currently taken up climbing things outside at the moment where the grades don't count cos there's no mirror image. I wonder if we could commission a sculptor to make a mirror image of the cave?
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Dylan measured them with his cock, and thats 8mm flaccid, 10mm at other times. Hence the confusion, he was in an undetermined state of arousal.
you're making a lot of racy posts at the minute dob-lah. did any noshing off take place after the johnson measurement had concluded?
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Did 40/41 blacks yesterday. Personally am not so impressed with the Core holds. They're okay but don't do anything that, say, Bleaustone don't already do better. And seem to get very greasy on some of the smaller holds. However the blobby ones with funny lips sticking out are good, as are the corrugated ones, those at least are a bit different.
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Dylan measured them with his cock, and thats 8mm flaccid, 10mm at other times. Hence the confusion, he was in an undetermined state of arousal.
you're making a lot of racy posts at the minute dob-lah. did any noshing off take place after the johnson measurement had concluded?
No noshing I'm afraid. How did this get into the Works thread?
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i liked those black core holds. fiends a freak
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I know how you love a good jug Dense
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Definitely too big holds for dense. Are you allowed off the training board, dense?
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Going to Font in a couple of weeks time so while I realise greasing about in 20+ degrees heat is excellent preparation might I suggest that someone break out the fans at The Works sometime soon? :)
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Climbed on the 45 symmetry board for the first time on sunday - brilliant.
Got some good Power of Climbing ticks too.
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Been meaning to get the fans out for a bit, if I forget someone from here remind one of us next time you are in. Doing some shifting stuff tomorrow morning so I might remember then
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Get the fans out
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What, for the lads
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For Barcelona ;)
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Great goal from Iniesta last night :)
After Chelski had 3 nailed on penalties not given as well
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:off:
I'm glad Barca won on the one hand but also concerned that they will have less chance of preventing the scum from winning the final than Chelski. At least I know who to support and will be able to properly cheer one team on without any reservations unlike last season.
:devangel:
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Still :off:
You have to love Norwegians!!1
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might I suggest that someone break out the fans at The Works sometime soon? :)
As ever we are at your service, 4 fans up and running
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Nice one Graeme. Service indeed. Now I just need to try to recover enough from yesterday's board session to climb on it again tomorrow.......
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The Bar thing sounds interesting?
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The Bar thing sounds interesting?
Indeed - I was trying to work out where it's going to be when I was in there t'other day. Wherever it is, I'll be looking forward to getting all over some muscle-ups!
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The bar is in. It will destroy you. Oh yes. Time for muscle-ups 'til you black out.
Interesting - maybe...
Brutal - yep.
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The bar is in. It will destroy you. Oh yes. Time for muscle-ups 'til you black out.
Interesting - maybe...
Brutal - yep.
destroy ME? sadly thats already done, your easy thing on the union jack holds ended my already delicate finger!
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The bar is in. It will destroy you. Oh yes. Time for muscle-ups 'til you black out.
Interesting - maybe...
Brutal - yep.
That which does not kill me etc etc...
Is it bad that I'm really looking forward to going to the world's best bouldering wall to use a bar??
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Just been down to check out the motherbar, and having had a session on it I have only three things to say - ow, ow and ow. Quality.
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Conveniently located in order to entertain the people on the desk? Gurn central.
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No, so we don't have to shout so loud to tell people to stop pissing around.
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I enjoyed watching 5 people doing syncronised pull-ups all side by side on the same bar this evening. It looked like fun, but I'm sure it wasn't really.
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Did they all look like this?
(http://www.laverdad.com/images/notic/fotos/12068/web/8.jpg)
I can see why it would be fun to watch
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Hello :wave:, my names Tom, second time poster, long time viewer.
I have a suggestion. I am pretty poor at resting between problems/ circuits/ campussing. I think you should put up some big fat tvs showing climbing films in order to keep me psyched but well rested, perhaps near the campus boards and the circuit board near the desk? I know this would be expensive but it would be good for helping resting and such. What do you reckon?
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please don't get tv's. if people are bored while they rest perhaps they can spend 3 minutes looking at the people who think they're going to become stronger by playing with a scaffold bar
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big fat tvs
Worst idea I've ever heard for the works, it almost deserves a puntering :spank:
Take a watch, time yourself, sit back and listen to the music, go talk to people, wander around a bit....
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Already done that one, we had a TV over by the campus board to show vids. Lasted less than a month before the chalk got to it
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Fair enough, it was only a suggestion. I don't understand why it is the worst idea you have heard for the Works though?
I figured chalk dust might be a problem. Never mind.
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If I want to be amused by some cunt climbing while I'm resting I just watch Cupboard.
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If I want to be amused by some cunt climbing while I'm resting I just watch jasper.
fixed :P
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If I want to be impressed by some hero crushing while I'm resting I just watch jasper.
fixed :P
Why thank you. But really, there's no need. :-*
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Is it right that some idiot nicked the motherboard problem book and are there any plans to replace it? There must be loads of good problems on there now and as it seems to be finished (as in holds wont be moved any more) it'd be good to have them all written down somewhere. By the way my fingers are sore today and I hold Dense entirely responsible for suggesting pulling on smaller holds.
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i don't expect you to beat me michael, i just want you to keep up ::)
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Gagging to try this motherboard at some point.
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If you honestly cant find something to look at at the works while resting between problems then you need to get your hormone levels checked.
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you need to get your hormone levels checked.
I thought the request for a big fat TV was a giveaway there...
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I am the only one not seeing what is so great about the 45 degree board with bits of wood screwed on it? :-\
I understand why this is a good idea if you wanted a board on your living room and couldn't afford or didn't have access to proper holds but in argueably the best bouldering wall in the country why have this board which is good for nothing but ruining tendons? Especially as there is already a much bigger board (at a more realistic angle) with a collection of finger wrecking holds on which you can at least move the holds around. I suppose there is the space at The Works so at least a good bit of wall hasn't been used for this thingy.
Have the past 15 years of wall developement been a waste of time? Have all the improvements (better holds, more interesting angles, bigger walls) been simply to draw more people into climbing and keep the casual customer amused for a few hours every week? is the real way to get strong to pull on A2 wrecking bits of wood?
Personally i don't think so, and on the rare trips i make to the works i seldom see anyone on the board. That maybe because most people there on wet sunday afternoons are too weak to use it but i also think that it maybe because "the motherboard" isn't very good.
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the motherboard looks to be a proper training board which you can get strong on.
The rest of the works you can have a laugh with your mates and put your back out whilst holding crazy geometry's smearing on frictionless wooden volumes.
no-one ever got strong by smearing on volumes
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I am the only one not seeing what is so great about the 45 degree board with bits of wood screwed on it? :-\
It isn't just that but, yes, you are. Have you climbed on it?
I understand why this is a good idea if you wanted a board on your living room and couldn't afford or didn't have access to proper holds but in argueably the best bouldering wall in the country why have this board which is good for nothing but ruining tendons?
Because it isn't just good for ruining tendons. It's good for making significant gains in strength and body tension. Oh and because people asked for it.
Especially as there is already a much bigger board (at a more realistic angle) with a collection of finger wrecking holds on which you can at least move the holds around. I suppose there is the space at The Works so at least a good bit of wall hasn't been used for this thingy.
I take it you mean the 30 degree board which is a totally different type of training facility. The whole point was that people wanted a steeper board with fixed holds so that they can gauge improvement over time and create classic problems which will last. Yes, nothing has been lost by building this board as you say so what's your problem?
Have the past 15 years of wall developement been a waste of time?
Wall development or board development? Two different things entirely but the answer to both questions is no. The Works is a stunningly successful example of how bouldering walls have developed. The fact that they can cater for everyone from small children to 8B beasts is one thing. The fact that they also realise that although punters are their bread and butter, they can also keep the slightly better climbers happy by providing proper training facilities shows forward thinking and flexibility. Two of the reasons that they are doing so well.
Board development is another thing and has been discussed at length on this thread. Suffice to say, I've seen a lot of training boards from the oldest and shittest (not always the same thing although Pollitt's garage ticked both those boxes) to some of the best designed and best constructed. For me, the motherboard is up there with the best I have ever climbed on and everyone I have spoken to feels the same.
Have all the improvements (better holds, more interesting angles, bigger walls) been simply to draw more people into climbing and keep the casual customer amused for a few hours every week?
Yes. This is where the money is.
is the real way to get strong to pull on A2 wrecking bits of wood?
Have you actually pulled on any of the holds on the motherboard? Most aren't tweaky at all. But yes, the way to get strong is partly by pulling on small holds on a steep board. I thought this had been common knowledge since about 1992? As Jim said, nobody ever got strong by smearing on volumes but if that is your cup of tea then there are quite a few problems like that already at The Works. If you think that you are better off trying to get strong on these problems then go for it. Or if perhaps you just enjoy that type of problem more then great, nobody's making you climb on the board!
Personally i don't think so, and on the rare trips i make to the works i seldom see anyone on the board. That maybe because most people there on wet sunday afternoons are too weak to use it but i also think that it maybe because "the motherboard" isn't very good.
It's the former. I basically only climb on the motherboard now and I'm not the only one.
Seriously, what's the problem? The Works had one thing missing, a proper training board. Now, with very little loss of space, they have one and can finally keep all the people happy most of the time. Except you it seems.
:-\
Nice one Sam on the problem book idea by the way. :thumbsup:
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I have to say I think its very good (the motherboard I mean). At the very core, board climbing at its hardest isnt going to be even possible for everyone - if its not possible and you're not getting anywhere then you'll do better by building up to it elsewhere, and so you dont always see people on it.
Without exception, all the good climbers I have ever met have advocated training on steep boards with bad footholds. The motherboard implements the core principles nearly perfectly!
If its ruining your tendons then see the first paragraph above - go and do something else until your base level is within useful reach of the motherboard.
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Nice dummy spit there Tim, hardly objective is it? or a reflection of your session, or have you tweaked a finger on it and fancy venting?
A: if you were given this space what would you do with it rather than put a 12ft by 8ft 45 degree board up?
It is elitist, i.e. caters for 5% of works users, it also takes up around 5% of the space, i'd say that was a fair representation given the size of the facility?
B: where's the beef? you've got enough tape on your hands at the minute to make tutankhamoon look under dressed so it's not suprising that slippy bits of wood don't agree with you. campussing up juggy crimps on it is hardly what it is designed for is it?
C: is this not just a case of you having a paddy and wanting to change the climbing so it agrees with you rather than change your style of climbing so it agrees with the board?
D: compare aspects which the board trains to the following classic problems (pick different ones if you like):
Pools of Bethesda:
Monk life:
special cases:
etc etc. now compare the 7c on volumes out the roof in the comp wall (hardest problem you could currently train on) to them? which relates more?
If your going to be critical at least be objective and state a reason for why it is so shit. The board is only tweaky if your under prepared. At the moment i'm the most injured i've ever been but i am getting alot of use out the board as i can tailor sessions round my injuries. where as if i were to climb on problems where a sequence was dictated i'd be screwed as i might have to crimp.
i've trained alot on (basically) that board for the past 2 years. whilst i realise i'm shit and have done fuck all in this period due to this completely useless board holding me back, i am interested to know more insightful ways of training, and getting more out of sessions.
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Have the past 15 years of wall developement been a waste of time?
I think this was answered earlier on in the thread. It IS a progression. SHAFT had been the way on boards for years, reducing this to a select few really dire footholds is definitely different. Look at the School boards where in a few moves you could cover the entire board (3 to 4 moves), you're unlikely to do this on the motherboard because you have to work so much harder to stay attached. Board in 3 was certainly giving me a hard time last time I tried.
I think the board is pretty damn good given the space allocated to fit in in, I'd be quick to point out if I thought otherwise. I don't think its the final word in training but I'm fairly confident it creates the type of climbing that will translate well to outdoors (over all other boards I've trained on and certainly triangular weirdness).
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I think the new board is great. It means that loads of strong people and far more people who think they are strong make space in the rest of the wall for the rest of us and to help with Jonjon's suggestion of what to do between problems.
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A few quick points,
1. I'm too weak for the board and consequently haven't played on it.
2. I think that in general terms walls profit from punters and go broke on wads.
3. The people that wanted the baord clearly think it's a good thing.
4. It hasn't been installed at the expense of the rest of the facility.
So in conclusion, good work boys.
Moving away from the boards what are people's views on the grades at the works? Personally I'd prefer it if they moved away from font grades and gave things a comparative grade for the whole circuit with a + / - to allow for variations, so the yellows would be a 6 and the greens 1.
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Out of interest, how does this compare to the School room board?
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A few quick points,
1. I'm too weak for the board and consequently haven't played on it.
2. I think that in general terms walls profit from punters and go broke on wads.
3. The people that wanted the baord clearly think it's a good thing.
4. It hasn't been installed at the expense of the rest of the facility.
So in conclusion, good work boys.
Moving away from the boards what are people's views on the grades at the works? Personally I'd prefer it if they moved away from font grades and gave things a comparative grade for the whole circuit with a + / - to allow for variations, so the yellows would be a 6 and the greens 1.
Perhaps they could use E grades for stuff that goes to the top too?
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Its completely different, the school usually had massive pulls with relatively good feet, the works board has smaller moves BECAUSE the footholds are so shit. I think the SB would have the edge in developing raw power and locks but not a lot else (unless of course you actually use the other few boards), whereas the works board works your fingers pretty hard, contact strength, tension etc. Dimensions its A little shorter and not as wide (the board as well).
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on a different angle of what Paul B states;
the works board works your fingers pretty hard, contact strength, tension etc making smaller moves on poorer footers. yes this is true. but does this make the problems a series of desperate dead points and snatches. assuming the footers and holds are so small and poor??? (no i haven't climbed on it, just based upon peoples discriptions)
to say that the 50 degree board would have the edge in developing raw power and locks but not a lot else is not entirely accurate.
In respect (defence) of the school (50 degree board) as you rightly say you can do bigger moves, but with that comes greater inertia/outward momentum, which requires greater amounts of body tension to counteract a more dynamic movement. secondly large dynamic moves on smaller holds (first edge) also require massive amounts of contact strength and finger strength because of these loads. ie catching holds on the fly (upward / downward). perky pinky is an extreme example. that problem along with the vast majority of the others requires a stupid amount of core strength, finger strength and contact strength, and those foot holds are reasonable.
on another point, it is difficult to compare the two boards one on one. both come from to different areas. it is like comparing Maradona & Pele. both come from two totally different areas.
the school is nigh on 20 years of age and only now with the motherboard a 21st century sports science driven version of it. we can really appreciate the brillance of what the school room is and what it has done for world climbing but more so, british climbing.
whether or not the motherboard can produce the historical test pieces and leave a legacy on british climbing, we shall have to wait and see.
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Personally i don't think so, and on the rare trips i make to the works i seldom see anyone on the board. That maybe because most people there on wet sunday afternoons are too weak to use it but i also think that it maybe because "the motherboard" isn't very good.
I don't go to the works much and when I do I like to climb problems set for me as I'm lazy and that's what I pay my money for. I've always said that if I was a member i'd use the board more, but I can't justify the entry price otherwise. Over the last week I've been 4 times and used the board twice as I'm running out of problems to try (look at me!). I'm not sure what you mean by tweaky holds as I didn't find any on the MB. Maybe your fingers are weak and they hurt as you are slapping too much?
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the motherboard is there, that is reason enough to climb there
if you don't like it don't use it
i agree with oldfella, but don't think we'll get a legacy from the MB simply because there are a lot more people training on boards than in 92. ie a lot of people on a lot of boards. again that is like comparing maradona and pele
strangely i agree with sloper as well, tho i'm the first to admit i've had a bad day
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Yeah, regrettably there's a positive correlation between ability and parsimony.
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A short while ago I was puzzling over whether I was strong enough to start using the board yet. Whilst eyeing it up Jasper Sharpe kindly pointed out an easy problem on it for me, which solved my puzzle. I was too weak.
I am training to get strong enough to get on the motherboard, and then I can log those problems on 8a.nu. 8)
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Aha. You are who I thought you might be. Nice to meet you! :)
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likewises x
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on a different angle of what Paul B states;
the works board works your fingers pretty hard, contact strength, tension etc making smaller moves on poorer footers. yes this is true. but does this make the problems a series of desperate dead points and snatches. assuming the footers and holds are so small and poor??? (no i haven't climbed on it, just based upon peoples discriptions)
This all comes down to base level, if you've got a mediocre one all of the small moves are going to feel like desperate deadpoints. If not you might struggle less. This is what people have been saying, if you're struggling to get up it you might be better elsewhere for a while. (This doesn't include Tim)
to say that the 50 degree board would have the edge in developing raw power and locks but not a lot else is not entirely accurate...
They're very different and I over simplified, thinking back to problems like snot, stuey etc its quite evident that you need a core to be able to stop the wild swinging around. However, the MB works it in a different way. Less dynamic but always fighting to keep your feet in contact with the board becuase once they're off, you're off. I think thats why its a little more applicable?
For me the MB struggles for powerful moves and deep locks because theres nothing good enough to get locked down below your chest or to press out really far, your foot WILL pop.
Fingers; at the school you're always hitting something on the move but generally the holds aren't too bad. On the MB I find a lot more load going through my upper body and fingers compared to my legs, again its working you in a different way.
whether or not the motherboard can produce the historical test pieces and leave a legacy on british climbing, we shall have to wait and see.
I doubt it can. Sorry Dan.
I miss the school :'(
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at least I could do chalk and blow at the school, never went back to redpoint basic jez. oh well
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In terms of cultural impact and world renown, I doubt anything will live up to the School's legacy.
As a Brit who spent a little while travelling in the States this spring, I was genuinely astonished by the Americans' interest in the place. And when I said I'd climbed there myself, the sense of awe was palpable as their gleeful unworldly eyes widened. Generally the effect lasted until I pulled on, whereby the eyes once again narrowed and there followed a 'Hey, I thought you had to be strong to climb there?'
As to why this is so, obviously Ben and Jerry's videos can't have harmed the place's reputation. But I firmly believe a new generation of Americans, Californians especially, are being wowed by a combination of Irish Si's phenomenal base level (climbs once a week and regularly squashes V12), and the fact he never shuts up about the good old days in Blighty when he was a member of the School.
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cultural impact
Absolutely. Why it was only yesterday I overheard Ghandi wax lyrical about Stuey 5 Bellies ... ::)
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Cultural impact? Jesus, spare me the mytholigising. Nothing like something a death to spur mourners to bullshit.
Would Dobbin have done the Joker if the school was still open? Or Paul B have been to Damascus? I doubt it.
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Would Dobbin have done the Joker if the school was still open? Or Paul B have been to Damascus? I doubt it.
Would dobbin have been able to do the joker so quickly without his time in there? I doubt it too. You'll need a new drum soon.
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Would I have done the Joker if the school was open? of course not! But what else would I have done??? we will never know.
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It's the former. I basically only climb on the motherboard now and I'm not the only one.
Seriously, what's the problem? The Works had one thing missing, a proper training board. Now, with very little loss of space, they have one and can finally keep all the people happy most of the time. Except you it seems.
:-\
I don't have a problem at all, as i said each to there own and there is alot of room in the works for everyone to have what they want, so if people want this board far enough, i really enjoy going to the works and so the addition of something new even if i don't use it doesn't bother me in the slightest. At the worst it has no impact on me at the best it is something to try and campus on at the end of a session for ten minutes.
I didn't mean to cast a slight against dan or ned by saying i don't like the board, because i have alot of respect for how good they are but i don't think the thing that sets them apart is the ability to pull on bits of wood.
I think having a few harder problems set on the comp wall would be just as good as the board but that is probably because i am lazy.
I know that moon, moffat, smith et al all got strong training on wood but they did so because that was the best and cheapest way to build a board did they not or am i completely wrong (which i probably am)?
[ I'm not sure what you mean by tweaky holds as I didn't find any on the MB. Maybe your fingers are weak and they hurt as you are slapping too much?
ha ha true, i am a punter.
All i was trying to establish by posting a comment was does anyone not think boards like this are the way forward?
What are the alternatives?
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I know that moon, moffat, smith et al all got strong training on wood but they did so because that was the best and cheapest way to build a board did they not or am i completely wrong (which i probably am)?
So if its the best, surely its a natural, logical conclusion to have a dedicated training board as such, akin to the motherboard maybe? :-\
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I know that moon, moffat, smith et al all got strong training on wood but they did so because that was the best and cheapest way to build a board did they not or am i completely wrong (which i probably am)?
So if its the best, surely its a natural, logical conclusion to have a dedicated training board as such, akin to the motherboard maybe? :-\
Shirley he means it was best at the time... 15years ago when the school room board opened. Has there been no progression in training board development since then?
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OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!!!
:wall: :rtfm: :wall: :rtfm: :wall:
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Don't call me Shirley (http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/pro-american-moments-in-movie-history/the-naked-gun.jpg)
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Most likely a stupid question, but, is it impossible for a school stlye board and a motherboard style board to coexist upon the same surface, thus getting the best of both worlds?
Or is it the case that the motherboard handholds are all better to compensate for the bad feet which would render all the school stlye problems too easy?
Forgive my ignorance here having never trained on the motherboard or any cellar style board to be honest.
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Do you people not have eyes? Go back to page 13.
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OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!!!
:wall: :rtfm: :wall: :rtfm: :wall:
Careful there Jasper. You don't want to get a head injury before you head off to Font
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ah yes I managed to read, digest and forget in the space of a days... cheers jasper.
so in answer to my question, there is no reason you can't have both, it would just mean more complex rules.
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Yeah and as it's difficult enough to implement the rules as they are it aint worth it. To do bigger moves on the MB you just need to get stronger anyway. I agree with Paul that big rockover type moves aren't going to work well on those foot jibs but apart from that you just need to pull harder.
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Careful there Jasper. You don't want to get a head injury before you head off to Font
I've calmed down now lagers. It's just the level nonsense and lack of reading before posting on this thread was becoming irksome.
Now when are those useless fuckers at The Works going to get round to building a decent training board? Not everyone wants to toe hook on volumes you know. Apart from Gav of course.
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we should start an online petition to get a 45deg training board built at the works. it's the one thing it's really missing and i know people would really appreciate it. whether or not such a feature would rival the cultural impact and world renown of the school's legacy is another issue.
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Speaking of toe hooks. As an observation from a punter who can only just pull on to the motherboard. There does appear to be a lot of rubber on the nice painted white side of this board. Seems to go all the way up too. Hope people aren't taking 1b ticks with a toe hook. :P
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I'm certainly not but I can't vouch for everyone.......
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3316/3295797196_ccb20ae961.jpg?v=0) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/derbyshire_ben/3295797196/in/pool-ukbouldering)
*cough*
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forget toe hooks, i use it for hand hooks.
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Gav only toe-hooks on the white side wall to create a black and white stripe effect in worship of his beloved magpies.
One can only assume he'll be scrubbing them off when the toon get relegated.......
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:lol:
Is Graeme regretting his premature gloating though after last night's result (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8038304.stm).......
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Sunday is going to be very tense. There is more chance of me doing Hubble than SAFc getting anything out of Chelsea. Just got to hope that Hull and the Toon don't win. Be warned though that if we get relegated I will be in a VERY bad mood on Monday and will ban people for the slightest provocation.
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And i will make a special visit down there myself to enjoy being banned.
Gav
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I knew you wouldn't be able to resist this thread much longer.
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Cultural impact? Jesus, spare me the mytholigising. Nothing like something a death to spur mourners to bullshit.
Would Dobbin have done the Joker if the school was still open? Or Paul B have been to Damascus? I doubt it.
Personally I couldn’t have given a flying fuck, or a monkey’s toss for that matter, that the Schoolroom shut down. I wasn’t even a member. I was just saying what I saw. Which was that a surprisingly significant number of American boulderers I met;
a) Had a decent knowledge of The Schoolroom, its protagonists and its problems,
b) Talked about it in extremely revered tones, and;
c) Were genuinely impressed to meet someone who had climbed there.
However, this might say more about Americans than the School’s usefulness. Who knows? And I don’t particularly want to get bogged down in the semantics of what constitutes climbing culture or world renown. I was just expanding on what I understood Paul’s response to oldfella’s quote to mean. Plus it’s always nice to big up Irish Si on the internet.
And if Houdini is correct, it’s the political impact of the School we should be concerning ourselves with. If this was anywhere near on topic, that is.
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I'm sure you will be in a good mood come Monday Graeme.
The toon are going down to keep the smoggies company.
At least it means the Sheffield Geordies can watch their team at Hillsborough next season.
They can always pop along to Bramall lane to watch premiership football, oh yes the Blades are going up.
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How about some big posters that highlight "climbing etiquette"? (Where's that grumpy old man smiley? :spank:)
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(Where's that grumpy old man smiley?)
(http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=36;type=avatar)
:)
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:dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1: :dance1:
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:( :furious:
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well Graeme,
There is more chance of me doing Hubble than SAFc getting anything out of Chelsea.
Shall we be seeing the elder statesman of the works doing Hubble this week?
maybe Ben can set up a copy for you on one of the walls. Hey, if it worked for Malc??
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:)
Do they serve slice of humble pie at the Works?
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well Graeme,
There is more chance of me doing Hubble than SAFc getting anything out of Chelsea.
Shall we be seeing the elder statesman of the works doing Hubble this week?
maybe Ben can set up a copy for you on one of the walls. Hey, if it worked for Malc??
??? They lost, Chelsea did them no favours, it was just that 2 other teams were even worse than Sunderland..... ;)
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surely getting away from relegation is the prize he seeks :shrug:
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:)
Do they serve slice of humble pie at the Works?
We used to but Gav ate it all today.
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Gav's gone and taken the whole week off just to avoid me. Gives me plenty of time to plan his welcome back ;)
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rumour has it, Gav's scoping out grounds for when they playing away next season. The Coca-Cola Football League Championship hosts an array of quirky little village football sides some of which play on the village green. fortunately he has GPS and a motorhome. just hope he isn't mistaken for a gypo!! :pissed: :alky:
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Calling the Arsolo van a motorhome is stretching the definition somewhat.
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just for Gav:
<object width="853" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UYrLSMQy35E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UYrLSMQy35E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="853" height="505"></embed></object>
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Genius, have some waddage for finding that :)
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More Newcastle Schadenfruede here.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBSjhS0_XlA&feature=related). (the chants after the final whistle are funny..)
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For a moment I thought fans at Villa Park had spontaeously re-written Cheer Up Peter Reid by Simply Red and White but it turns out they have re-written Cheer Up Peter Reid by PilotFish 10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sa3IAHwlZY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sa3IAHwlZY) which is pretty funny. Disgraceful of course but funny.
Good Brummies :dance1:
And Gav still had showed up at work ;D
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Well after nearly 2 weeks of 'working from home' Gav has finally shown his face and paid off his gambling debts. I will enjoy spending his money in the pub raising a toast to Alan Shearer. Next season's bet is £20 that they don't come straight back up.
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From the back page of the Sun today....
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00821/EBAY-NEWCASTLE-SPLA_821127a.jpg)
Better stop now - after all I am a Hull fan and people in glass houses etc.... ::)
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If it's true that there was no relegation get out clause in most of the £50k+ a week contracts that the useless shower were given then I'd be very surprised if anyone sane took a punt on this. Coupled with the fact that they still owe money on a lot of the transfers and will have to refinance to make those payments and meet the wage bill (reported to be £75m p.a.) it looks very similar to the situation that (whisper it) Leeds were in when they went down.
Ashley wants £100m but a more realistic price would be about a tenner because of the amount of debt someone's going to have to take on. There are plenty more attractive clubs looking for investment. If you wanted to put £100m in then why would you choose a virtually bankrupt Championship side?
I reckon they're prop'a fooked like, canny lad.
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If it's true that there was no relegation get out clause in most of the £50k+ a week contracts that the useless shower were given then I'd be very surprised if anyone sane took a punt on this. Coupled with the fact that they still owe money on a lot of the transfers and will have to refinance to make those payments and meet the wage bill (reported to be £75m p.a.) it looks very similar to the situation that (whisper it) Leeds were in when they went down.
Ashley wants £100m but a more realistic price would be about a tenner because of the amount of debt someone's going to have to take on. There are plenty more attractive clubs looking for investment. If you wanted to put £100m in then why would you choose a virtually bankrupt Championship side?
I reckon they're prop'a fooked like, canny lad.
Yup - 5th highest wage bill in the BPL... THe danger then is that they get into 'we'll pay 30k of owens wages a week if you take him off our hands' type situations... which (ironically) players like Viduka were on at Leeds...
Its a sorry state of affairs allright. How much did west Ham go for earlier in the week?
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West Ham have basically been taken over by the bank who the previous owner owed fuckloads of money to.
Or in more detail. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/westham/5479118/West-Ham-takeover-extinguishes-fears-over-potential-fire-sale.html)
They're in a much stronger position than Newcastle and, most importantly, are still in the Premier League. :-[
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:off: :off: :off:
FFS this makes Sloper's politicial drivel seem interesting. Football talk?? I'd rather watch already dry paint get a tiny bit drier >:(
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The paint on your little toy soldier men you mean?
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:great: - thats got to be one the harshest put downs I've read for a while.
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Not to me it ain't. I'm happy and proud of painting toy soldiers (been doing a bit recently when the weather was wank) :thumbsup:
:off: :oops: SSHHHHH Can't you lot get back to moaning about campus board rung angles or something??
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How about a new topic (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,11866.0.html) to get this one back on track?
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:kiss1: What a gent you are Jasper *cough*cough*
P.S. It's a little army of Dwarves not Orcs.
Anyway. I have no comment on the Works, due to the weather I haven't been down for ages. I did meet Sam walking out from Malham the other day, looking like the terminator with sunglasses and muscles everywhere. He was as friendly as usual. The last time at the Works, hmmm there was that new circuit and it was a bit tricky for the grade range. I also got burnt off by a gurl I think...
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I also got burnt off by a gurl I think...
:-\
You think she was a gurl... or
You think you got burnt off...
Both of these things can be quite confusing. :P