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1
shootin' the shit / Re: Sit/stand desk
« Last post by chris05 on Today at 12:26:59 pm »
If anyone is interested we have one of these that we don't need anymore. It's pretty basic but works well. Located near Halifax.
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Quote
the ground up bolting ethic evolved out of aid climbing ethics in a place where aid climbing is still revered.

Not really no, in California it evolved out of ground-up on often massive cliffs by any sporting means. Aid was part of that scene and always will be. And on European sandstone which you conveniently ignore it had very little to do with aid climbing. Again, a ground-up ethic evolved as a logical response to the rock formations.

The point is not that ground-up bolting is anything to aspire to (agree it is anachronistic in the UK), it's that trad/ adventure climbing is defined by the style of the approach, not by the means, and even bolts can be part of a sufficiently adventurous approach. More typically bolts are emblematic of quite the opposite, but I don't see it very helpful to ignore the exceptions. They are important. Trad climbing is all about style which means shades of grey not black and white.

I don't have any problem with people thinking pegs have no place in British climbing, but I don't think it's much use - it's a position made irrelevant by reality. Pegs were and are a part of British climbing. They are still being placed by first ascensionists without uproar, and can't be easily removed in many cases. Conflating them with bolts is a gross over-simplification. Some years ago we did this debate to death about peak limestone, which might explain mine (and possibly Neil's) more equivocal positions. Here it was more obvious that what was being sought was trad-lite retrobolting anywhere pegs remained.

Much as I think Chris has gone too far in many cases, there also seems to be proof that he has just replaced pegs in others. Until there is a cross-checked list I don't see any sense on assuming they are all drilled and glued. Ultimately the difference in opinion here may boil down to our levels of insight into Chris' honesty and modus operandi, but I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

It's simple to be a pro-bolt activist - you just get a drill and crack on - but much harder to be actively anti-bolt. Chopping bolts is not the result you want, bolts not being placed is, which requires building consensus and trying to encourage adherence. Again, reality intrudes with the venn diagram of maverick bolters vs sensible majority having little overlap.



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shootin' the shit / Re: Qatar World Cup
« Last post by edshakey on Today at 12:19:32 pm »
Quote
the best experience of a WC many fans have had, especially women who appear to like the fact that its not full of pissed up blokes

Can't believe you've not been pulled up on this, I was told it was:

Quote
...a very clumsy take on football in the UK (to be polite)... a small number of football fans, far far away from a "majority"

On the plus side apart from the school debacle it's been easy enough to forget it's happening.

Fair enough, happy to take responsibility for that second quote - although I hadn't yet read that post re. pissed up blokes.

I've not been following overly closely what fans have been saying about this world cup experience vs previous ones. However, from what I have seen, the reason for enjoyment of this world cup seems to be a range of factors, including easy public transit, low petty crime rates, etc. But there has been less (violent) trouble than at other world cups, so I'm guess it is making a difference to some people.

On the other hand, the number of violent fans in football, and specifically at world cups, is still a minority. Yes it occurs, and involves a few hundred fans, but hundreds of thousands of fans attend these tournaments. I would argue that if you asked fans at previous tournaments how safe they felt, a lot more would have quoted pickpockets and muggings (ie. not football related issues) as things that made them feel unsafe, compared to those who would cite fan trouble.
I imagine people would still be saying it was their best experience at a world cup, for other reasons, even if there was the usual level of fan trouble.

So yes, less fan trouble is good for everyone. I have no issue with addressing it when it occurs, as it is unacceptable. But don't paint everyone with the same brush - to directly address the original quote: football is never "full of pissed up blokes". They just steal the headlines ;)
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shootin' the shit / Re: Sit/stand desk
« Last post by ben on Today at 12:01:10 pm »
I have a vonhaus electric one for my home office. Use it with my old IKEA desk top. Super value for money, would highly recommend.

https://www.vonhaus.com/vh_en/catalog/product/view/id/4614/s/grey-electronic-sit-stand-desk-frame

yeah I have one very similar, mine is a Dellonda (look for Dellonda workstation on ebay), but seems to be the same kinda thing. Similarly I have paired it with an old desk top.
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conditions reports (isitgreasy on twitter) / Re: Pad stashing
« Last post by Droyd on Today at 11:57:53 am »
Is there a distinction to be made, then, between stashing pads when climbing purely for yourself (going out and repeating established problems, as most of us do) and when developing a boulder or area? Itís not something I thought about when writing my posts and Iím pretty ignorant in terms of how much hard graft goes into the parts of the process that donít involve climbing shoes and chalk. If so I guess that comes down to how you see developing: are people who develop problems and areas doing so out of a pure love for the community and desire to give others fantastic experiences, due to egotism and a love of seeing their names written down, or because of a simple lack of interest in climbing established problems and preference for the unknown? Regardless of intent the rest of us get to enjoy more climbs (assuming the developer documents what theyíve done), but for reasons I struggle to articulate it feels like more slack should be cut for altruistic developers than the monomaniacal Gary Gibsons of the bouldering world in terms of stashing.

However, that only deals with the laziness/personal achievement aspect, rather than the ecological and Ďmoralí (in the heaviest of inverted commas) ones, in that itís only a defence of the practice if your primary issue is with stashed pads being found. A pad at a crag that other climbers donít know about and that is miles off the beaten track and hard to access is unlikely to be found by other climbers and walkers, but itíll still be found by the local fauna, and still be pollution if events conspire to stop the owner returning. The Ďif a tree falls in the forestí meme kind of misses the point, in that the issue isnít the Ďeventí, i.e. the tree falling down (the pad being stashed), but the consequences of the event. The idea that the perfect instance of stashing a pad (whereby you stash it, use it, retrieve it, no one found it, and itís as if it never happened) isnít the problem Ė itís when things donít go to plan.

I guess the heavy-handed analogy here is regular instances of littering (with the massive caveat that anyone who chooses to drop a Snickers wrapper while walking in the Lakes is a massive wanker, but thatís not what Iím saying about anyone stashing a pad. Iím just trying to pick a hole in the logic of it). I think that most people who litter genuinely do not think about the consequences of their actions: their thought process either stops at ĎI donít want to hang onto this piece of garbageí and doesnít continue to a consideration of the place, or they do get that far but make their decision to litter on the assumption that someone else will eventually pick it up. In both instances theyíre not thinking Ďfuck it, I do not respect this placeí, because theyíre not acting with the intention to leave a non-biodegradable piece of garbage in a beautiful environment permanently; thatís just an unintended outcome of the chain of events of them leaving it and other people not clearing it up. I think that thatís analogous to the ĎIíll definitely come backí approach in that itís all well and good if you clear up after yourself, but if that doesnít transpire then your previous act of stashing has become an act of littering (as happens if life gets in the way). So the argument that stashing pads is not littering is wholly contingent on intention with regard to your future self, but until your future self gets his or her arse in gear and actually goes go back it functionally is litter, because itís a non-biodegradable object thatís been consciously left in a natural environment. I guess the dog-shit analogy up-thread is similar but even more heavy-handed, emotive, and judgemental. In essence, weíre talking about SchrŲdinger's boulder pad Ė in quantum superposition, a state of garbage and not-garbage, until connies are sufficiently good that a wave-function collapse occurs in the form of the owner returning, sending the gnar, and taking their shit home with them.

I do stress that Iím absolutely not having a go at anyone, either specifically or in general Ė Iím a total punter thinking about things in simple, black and white terms, in relation to my own experience of just bumbling about and enjoying all of the problems that other people have put time and effort into developing. I guess itís similar to how we should all be thinking about lifestyle changes for reasons of climate change, in terms of recognising that what would be ideal is not necessarily achievable and not condemning others for failing to share your values.
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shootin' the shit / Re: Sit/stand desk
« Last post by remus on Today at 11:43:14 am »
I've got a manual ikea one. Winding it up and down doesn't feel like much of an effort. I dont use it standing that often but it's really nice having the option when you're at the desk for a long stretch.
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conditions reports (isitgreasy on twitter) / Re: Pad stashing
« Last post by Fultonius on Today at 11:21:12 am »


having come across sh#t like this too often, and even the rather pungent maggot infested remnants of one pad (the smell was rank), i fall very firmly in the anti-stashing camp... (and will actively remove from spots in HK unless someone has left a name and number on the pad as a mark of ownership - so i know who to chase down and then name and shame at the end of the season)

The example shown is clearly Not stashed but dumped, so in this case i would tend to agree with your actions.

That is very far away from what i do, i would challenge you to find the area, then find the hidden pads{in caves}.

Scraggers, I kind of think it's a wee bit of a stretch to apply this argument / issue in the vast unpopulated highlands. I mean, it took boulderers 25 years to even find the spots in the first place. It ain't Burbage! 
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news / Re: Bosiwad
« Last post by edshakey on Today at 11:20:50 am »
The Dagger flash is pretty incredible, especially given comments like these

Dave Graham: "CrazYYY"
Daniel Woods: "3 days of war"
Carlo Traversi: "3rd day... Crazy and hard"

Always amazes me when people flash things that take other top climbers a significant amount of effort. Obviously there are huge factors like late repeats having more beta than FA/early repeats, and people having specialised styles, etc, but it's still a pretty incredible piece of climbing.

An alterative angle... multiple people saying soft 8B+, or even 8B. That's numberwang!
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news / Re: Bosiwad
« Last post by Danny on Today at 11:16:17 am »
Absolutely ridonkulous from Bosi!  :strongbench:
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conditions reports (isitgreasy on twitter) / Re: Pad stashing
« Last post by SA Chris on Today at 11:06:10 am »
you left out being brutally savaged by a pack of feral haggis. More dangerous than dropbears when they detect the scent of thievery afoot.
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