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diet, training and injuries / Re: Elbow osteoarthritis
« Last post by webbo on Today at 04:14:06 pm »
My elbow is currently clicking a lot and occasionally locks but it’s fairly pain free. My wrists are stiff and often quite painful so doing a press up would be quite difficult. I had steroid injections in both about 4 years ago and they were all right for 3 years. I had this done privately through health insurance I could have had up to 3 but just within a six month period. I saw a consultant who said I could have wrist replacements but they wouldn’t cope with climbing.
So I will get them looked at again when I’ve sorted out my shoulder( just had my first physio session on it today)
get involved: access, environment, BMC / Re: Changing the BMC
« Last post by shark on Today at 02:15:06 pm »
A Members Open Forum was announced in the November updateand takes place next weds 13th from 6.30pm. To register go here

“As part of our ongoing commitment in creating new opportunities for members to keep up to date with BMC news and activities our first Members Open Forum webinar will take place on Wednesday 13 December 2023 from 18:30-20:00. This webinar presents an opportunity to engage in a Q&A session with BMC President, Andy Syme, and Chair of the Board, Roger Murray.

To register for the Members Open Forum please click here.

Upon regstering you will be asked to enter:

First name
Email address
Membership Number

If you wish to submit questions in advance, please email deadline for submitting questions is midnight on Monday 11 December. We strongly encourage submitting any questions you may have beforehand. This allows us to provide you with the most up-to-date information and helps us adhere to our schedule. Live Q&A will commence once all pre-submitted questions are addressed”
music, art and culture / Re: RIP
« Last post by andy popp on Today at 12:00:01 pm »
Benjamin Zephaniah, at 65, from a brain tumour discovered just weeks ago. What utterly, utterly crap news.

If you haven't used python before it won't be overly straightforward. .....

OK, I'm out. Idiot's guide would be good.
abroad / Re: Granada trip report
« Last post by blaciqui on Today at 11:27:35 am »
Any opinions on Villanueva del Cauche?  Has the benefit of being in the rockfax guide, looks good?
Considering heading to this area after Christmas for a bit but, having spent a lot of time in/around Chorro in the past, looking at staying Antequera-ish and focussing more on Rosario, Archidonna  and Loja.  Looks like there's still a decent section of Loja open (Perros de Presa in particular sounds great).  Where's best to check for bird ban status for these crags?

Check the regulations here. is only in spanish but pretty straight forward. Please keep in mind that these are the official enforceable regulations from the goverment. The andalusian mountaneering association might have some panel boards with some regulations. Those are not enforceable, but you should follow them to maintain access and to not make things worst.

Those regulations can be found here: only in spanish and a little bit more tricky. But again 90% of the crags will not have any kind of regulations.

Also, in relation to Villanueva de Cauche, I like it, is not world class but for a day it can be good, although I prefer Alfarnatejo, a little bit down the road from Villanueva de Cauche. I suppose it all depends on your grades and the style of climbing. Another really nice place to climb not to far from Antequera and off the radar is Cuevas de San Marcos. (this one it has a bird ban but I think is only during the summer)
diet, training and injuries / Re: Elbow osteoarthritis
« Last post by harrison on Today at 10:24:55 am »
Thanks Fiend - thankfully my knees are ok, so slab padding is in!

I have quite significant osteoarthritis in my right elbow. Diagnosed about 4 months ago. I had post on here somewhere.
I have lost significant range of movement. 90degrees flexion and around 150 extension.
I’ve had a CT & X-ray. I’m having an operation in late January to clear out my elbow and remove some of the bone formations.
I’ve been climbing as per usual. Just can’t do certain positions now. Such as mantles and deep locks.
Ah shit that sucks man! How long ago did you first notice it? Is the limitation of ROM the only symptom or do you get pain from it as well? Did the CT scan show anything about the condition of the cartilage?
I definitely have some cartilage damage either on the capitellum  or the RC joint, but have pretty widespread bone spurs/growth (quite interesting to see how the bone has basically made the joint wider on the capitellum and humeral articulating surfaces).
Im trying to decide if the same sort of operation is worthwhile, my ROM is not particularly restricted, but there are definitely bits and pieces flloating about and I get some catching every now and then - and I imagine that is not good for the remaining cartilage.
If ROM limitation is your main symptom that's good. I was reassured a bit by this guy saying in treating 1500 elbows he had only had to do 3 or 4 replacements and repeating the debridement to remove the bone spurs once a decade or so generally works -

I broke a bone in my elbow joint in 1981 doing the classic putting a hand down to break your fall on landing. Since then I have never been able to straight it fully, I had it cleaned out about 10 years ago as it was clicking and locking at times, the surgeon removed various float bodies.
He causally mentioned post op that I shouldn’t lift anything heavier than a bag of shopping.
So I just carried on as normal
Currently it is clicking very loud at times and it does lock but in general I can still climb. My wife keeps telling me to get it looked at. However it’s probably third on the list behind my shoulder and my arthritic wrists.
Given your age you have my sympathy.
Kind of not bad going if its still working 40 years later!  What are the wrists like to deal with btw? Dr asked if I had any wrist pain when he was looking at my elbow x-rays, and said they might develop it too. Not got any imaging of them, so living in ignorance for now.
How bad has your elbow been pain wise?

For both of you, did you have to avoid any exercises, styles etc? I haven't done a pushup or pullup for like 18 months or maybe 2 years. Both of them cause pretty unpleasant crepitus, and discomfort/pain. The sound is enough to make you think, I need to stop that.
Thanks both of you for posting as well - definitely nice to hear people are still climbing with janky elbows.

Strangely, as they were getting worse I found I could still do hard mantles, whereas basic pulling was more problematic.

I was getting like twangy shooty pains down my arm while resting (down radial nerve, and something would twang at the bicep insertion), and a deep soreness in both brachioradialis muscles, and the outside of the left bicep. It started like once a fortnight or once a week, and it got more frequent until it was like most days. Just slightly sore forearms while climbing.
Most of those have subsided, particularly the radial nerve thing. I assume there is like some tendinitis / tenosynovitis in my forearms because they are still pretty sore, probably like a constant 3-4/10. My actual elbows only hurt if I keep them still for a long time - like for the the MRI it knacked to keep them extended for 20-30mins.

I work as a physio and have OA in my hip.  From what we know of OA and exercise, it can be protective and reduce/limit progression on the condition.  In terms of climbing I would be guided by your symptoms. Don't just stop climbing!  Start off steadily and see how your symptoms respond.  There is no one size fits all.  Initially I would refrain from steep stuff, hanging from locked out elbows and hard mantles etc. 
Although the below link is for OA knee it offers some excellent advice that could be transferred to your elbows and climbing.

Thanks for commenting, sorry about your hip! Thanks for the link it is helpful. Before stopping climbing the following were less aggravating:
  • slabs without really using arms
  • climbing on gentle overhangs on decent holds with relaxed arms
  • kilterboard v1+2s with relaxed arms, using excessive leg beta to never pull
  • bomber hand and fist jams less bad than pulling on / holding onto holds.

So that's good stuff to know although I'm slightly wary of being guided by symptoms.
With it being the elbows, it feels like you have one chance to not wreck them.
I also did a lot of climbing while being pretty oblivious to how bad they were which doesn't bode well for that approach.

As far as I understand, you can't feel cartilage being damaged, so you are feeling the resulting inflammation. So you'll get the message afterwards, not before or during. If you're trying to preserve cartilage, that's too late really.

Low impact exercise with low-moderate cyclical loading through a large ROM for 10-15 minutes in theory stimulates cartilage to repair (with caveats). Moderate is based on healthy cartilage, so low load might be wiser for unhealthy cartilage.
That sounds like climbing could fit the bill, but with RC joint damage, the combination of pronation and pulling seems like its going to put a multiplied load on the cartilage there, which is where mine seems worst.

Oh yeah, its probably worth saying, back in July my left elbow was bad, but my right elbow was alright (or so I thought at the time). I made up some problems on my board that were easy/comfortable for the left hand, but challenging for the right side. Did a good problem flicking off a 2f pocket for the right hand, and pretty much as soon as I was standing on the floor again my right elbow cained and over the next day or two inflated with swelling.
After that the right elbow was the "bad" elbow, and that incident seems to have caused acute damage - so that's a factor for not climbing (or reducing/constraining the intensity dramatically).

Guess the whole point of asking around is to see what the experience of other people has been, and if they tolerated climbing well or it destroyed their elbows. Not found anyone in the latter group so far, but I've asked climbers, who likely still climb, so there is probably a selection bias there!
It is a python package for starters, you will need a python env set up somewhere. You can clone (copy) the python code and then run it in your python environment.

There is a walkthrough of how to get craters from moon data:

If you haven't used python before it won't be overly straightforward. No idea what it is like if you have as I haven't tried it.

If anyone does get it working for bouldering, it would be cool to add an idiots how to (for me).
power club / Re: Power Club 729. 27 Nov - 3 Dec
« Last post by Rocksteady on Today at 09:47:59 am »
6b+ at the wall usually translates to 6c+ on rock or a low 7 redpoint. Will be interesting to see if the better numbers hanging off a strip of wood translate into climbing any better.

Interesting, that is almost exactly the relationship I have with Westway grades and outdoor grades.
Cool, Will test it later on some erratics i have discovered in the past deep in the Cairngorms.

OK, I had a look and...... I haven't got a clue what it is and how you use it. Anyone care to enlighten me?
abroad / Re: Granada trip report
« Last post by slab_happy on Today at 07:47:46 am »

It's not, you know? It's really not. The mosque in the cathedral is OK but only that; the Jew-stuff (the most important, natch) is really disappointing. Heaven knows how many times I read the 'thirteen articles of faith' and Maimonides' commentaries. So was excited to visit only to be met with that crap statue of Rambam. An hour would be stretching it.

Stick to Seville.

My apologies, I wasn't clear, I meant the history of the Caliphate of Cordoba and the way different religions got on well and how arts and science flourished under their Islamic rule....probably the greatest intellectual flourish of any medieval empire. There are also good talks on the subject from Jim Al Khalili  on YouTube (the Iplayer copies are sadly no longer available)

You may have read it already, but I remember really enjoying Maria Rosa Menocal's book on Al-Andalus, The Ornament of the World.
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