UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: r-man on November 19, 2014, 06:35:58 pm
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http://www.mountainproject.com/v/fred-beckey-90-years-old-climbing-in-jtree/107955528 (http://www.mountainproject.com/v/fred-beckey-90-years-old-climbing-in-jtree/107955528)
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Anyone got the info for bouldering?
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Dougie Hall has recently done a new E8 (and several E7's) and is just a few weeks off 60.
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For women Geraldine Taylor must be right up there.
Polish Mike (who I used to solo with) must also be pushing E6/7 new routes and he must be 60 something.
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Christ, are we going to have to do trad too?
Absolutely yes. Ideally trad onsighting as well :)
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Christ, are we going to have to do trad too?
I remember seeing Geraldine at a meet somewhere with the t shirt, 'sport climbing is neither'.
Having said that she didn't approve of Al and I drinking and playing cards, I think she thought I was a bad influence (unlikely) on Al
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Christ, are we going to have to do trad too?
Absolutely yes. Ideally trad onsighting as well :)
Subsections for grit and gneiss?
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Didn't someone 60 climb something 9a sometime??
A bit vague maybe, I have in mind something verty looking on marble-esque rock...
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Sorry was thinking of Manalo on Eternit (9a?) but he was only 51. Still not bad...
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http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=36940# (http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=36940#)
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80: Stimson Bullitt "Illusion Dweller" (http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=841013) 5.10b trad. (about E2) at 83. Poster-boy for patagonia: they know their customers.
I'm guessing that performance drops pretty sharply from the mid-70s.
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What us middle aged climbers are really interested in is people who have maintained or improved their grade at at an advanced age. That, e.g., Moon can manage 8b+ or whatever it is at the ripe old age of 48 or so is of course impressive, but not so astonishing given what he did when he was 40 and what he did in his 30s. Is Haston unusual, even unique, in managing to improve in his 40s and up until the age of 50 (in terms of sports grades at least)? I'm thinking of people who climbed to a decent standard beforehand of course - it would be easy to improve if one bumbled around in one's 20s and 30s.
Then, the crucial question, can I improve without having to shed 10kg? That's basically what Stevie did at crucial moments as far as I can tell from his blog. And that Bleausard climbing Zen at 70 in the guide (I think I've remembered that right) - well, he looks like a bag of skin and bones (plus a bit of muscle).
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Personally I think all this data is informative even if much of it is well-managed-decline rather than late-blooming improvement.
Yes, definitely, there's a lot to be said for well-managed-decline.
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what's the oldest ascent of Austrian Oak so far?
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Just count the rings...
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One thing which can be interesting to know for us older climbers is that there is quite a lot of research from a wide range of sports that supports the idea that strength training is way more important for older athletes than for younger. In particular explosive strength training. In mainstream sports (both in endurance and more powerful sports) many coaches talk about how practising the actual sport is enough strength training for athletes in their prime, but that older athletes need to replace skill practice with heavy strength training in order not to loose vital power and strength.
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older athletes need to replace skill practice with heavy strength training in order not to loose vital power and strength.
Weighted pull-ups in the park are the way forward
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older athletes need to replace skill practice with heavy strength training in order not to loose vital power and strength.
Weighted pull-ups in the park are the way forward
Just kicked the butt of one of my 19 year old instructors at "L" sits, Windscreen wipers and General core stuff.
On the other hand, I benchmarked our latest rising star last night, for her new training programme.
She's 13.
Kicks my arse to Saturn...
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Manolo's whole cv is worth a read, peaking at 9a+ at 48 amongst others.
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out of interest whats the oldest ascent of Mecca?? I heard Keith Sharples was trying it how did he get on?? :strongbench:
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Of these, I believe Haston's 9a at 52, Marin's 8b+ at 60 and Sheftel's 8b+ at 59 were lifetime hardest ascents.
Whereas Sharma did many things harder than La Dura Dura in his 20s?
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For the women there's Muriel Sarkany with PuntX (9a) at age 39 - not sure of any others?
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Continuing with the pedant theme...
60: Lee Sheftel "Whole Shot" 5.14a (8b+) at 59
70: Lee Sheftel "Eulogy" 5.13b (8a) at 68.
59 isn't 60s and 68 isn't 70s.
I feel as a 39-year-old that this is important point. Although once I hit 40 my benchmark drops from 9b+ to only 9aish, phew.
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out of interest whats the oldest ascent of Mecca?? I heard Keith Sharples was trying it how did he get on?? :strongbench:
My money would be on Simon Reed for the oldest ascent of Mecca, possibly late 40s / early 50s?
I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon.
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Is Haston unusual, even unique, in managing to improve in his 40s and up until the age of 50 (in terms of sports grades at least)?
I reckon with Haston if he'd taken all the time he's spent over the past few decades doing billions of pull-ups everyday and spent it doing some more "conventional" training he'd probably have boshed off a 9a ten years sooner.
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out of interest whats the oldest ascent of Mecca?? I heard Keith Sharples was trying it how did he get on?? :strongbench:
My money would be on Simon Reed for the oldest ascent of Mecca, possibly late 40s / early 50s?
I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon.
Good effort :strongbench:
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We need more data but...Graph 1 closely resembles plots of objective measures of athletic performance with age, suggesting assuming a linear progression in grades could be correct. Muscle power deteriorates similarly, strength declines more slowly, supporting what jwi says about the importance of power.
(http://watergirl.co/sites/default/files/images/Affect%20of%20Gender%20and%20Age/S-B-R%20Age%20Group.jpg)
What us middle aged climbers are really interested in is people who have maintained or improved their grade at at an advanced age. That, e.g., Moon can manage 8b+ or whatever it is at the ripe old age of 48 or so is of course impressive, but not so astonishing given what he did when he was 40 and what he did in his 30s. Is Haston unusual, even unique, in managing to improve in his 40s and up until the age of 50 (in terms of sports grades at least)? I'm thinking of people who climbed to a decent standard beforehand of course - it would be easy to improve if one bumbled around in one's 20s and 30s.
Perhaps Stevie didn't focus on Sport Climbing as much as he could have in his 30s and 40s, but I don't think you did either.
Then, the crucial question, can I improve without having to shed 10kg?
It would be very hard.
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I'm afraid Habrich gets 2/10 for his graphs. No axis titles, no y axis units or title. Curved line to link dots - and clearly not a linear relationship as the line isn't straight.. Though it could be if the y axis were log, but you can't tell as no units. Back around...
Duncan however gets 6.5/10. Axis titles needed and a few tweaks with the label formatting at line colours would get you a first. Tick.
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Don't worry Habrich you get better at making charts as you get older...
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Method: Sample all scorecards from 8a.nu, for each age group compute average best grade. This would take less than an hour if 8a.nu made its database available in usable form.
If 8a.nu had an API to its database I would be willing to forgive some of Jens's jackassery
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Don't worry Habrich you get better at making charts as you get older...
Christ - what was he like at school then ;)
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I'll hold fire on Habrichs charts and instead offer some positive re-inforcenment "well done that's better" *patrinising pat on head* ;)
But what they do raise (possibly inadvertently) is a debate about grading. Habrichs charts could either show that there is not a linear relationship between age and ability - or that the grading scheme is not linear.. Or both!
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Manolo's whole cv is worth a read, peaking at 9a+ at 48 amongst others.
Is there a version on the web anywhere?
He was 50 in 2008:
9a+/5.15a:
Bimbaluna - Saint-Loup (SUI) - 20 gennaio 2008 - Ripetizione della via di François Nicole del 2004[5]
9a/5.14d:
Eternit - Vette Feltrine/Baule (ITA) - 24 agosto 2009 - Prima salita, prosecuzione di O ce l'hai...o ne hai bisogno[8]
Bain de Sang - Saint-Loup (SUI) - 2006 - Ripetizione della via di Fred Nicole del 1993[4]
8c+/5.14c:
Roby Present - Val Noana (ITA) - 24 marzo 2012 - Prima salita, via dedicata a Roberto Bassi[9]
8c/5.14b:
Eroi Fragili - Val Noana (ITA) - 5 marzo 2011 - Prima salita[10]
Stramonio - Val Noana (ITA) - 10 ottobre 2010 - Prima salita[11]
Thin ice - Terlago (ITA) - 25 aprile 2009 - Via di Nico Favresse del 2007[12]
El sior Favonio - Fonzaso (ITA) - 2006 - Prima salita[13]
Diabloluna - Fonzaso (ITA) - 7 gennaio 2006[14]
L'Arte di Salire in Alto - Celva (ITA) - 2001 - Via di Rolando Larcher del 1992[2]
The Dream - Val Noana (ITA) - ottobre 1991 - Prima salita
8b+/5.14a:
Appigli Ridicoli - Vette Feltrine/Baule (ITA) - 1990 - Ora 9a per la chiusura di due appigli[3]
Il Maratoneta - Paklenica (CRO) - 1988
Malvasia - Dvigrad (CRO) - 1988
8b/5.13d:
O ce l'hai… o ne hai bisogno - Vette Feltrine/Baule (ITA) - 1990
Ultimo Movimento - Totoga (ITA) - 1986 - Prima salita e primo 8b italiano
A vista
8b+/5.14a:
Rock and Blues - Kalymnos (GRE) - 19 giugno 2009
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Assuming linearity between age and grade...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2498365/ukb/age_grade_linear.png)
Clearly not linear so lets fit a Loess regression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_regression) line...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2498365/ukb/age_grade_loess.png)
Data (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2498365/ukb/climber_age.csv) (i've added Adam Ondra, Alexander Megos, and Beat Kameerlander who climbed 8b+ (trad) at 50 with "Prinzip Hoffnung")
name,age,grade,gender
"Chris Sharma",31,9b+,"male"
"Stevie Haston",52,9a,"male"
"Manolo",51,9a,fe"male"
"Francesco Marin",60,8b+,"male"
"Lee Sheftel",59,8b+,"male"
"Herman Gollner",70,7c+,"male"
"Lee Sheftel",68,8a,"male"
"Stimson Bullitt",83,6a,"male"
"Fred Beckey",93,4,"male"
"Adam Ondra",19,9b+,"male"
"Alex Megos",20,9a,"male"
"Beat Kammerlander",50,"8b+","male"
R Script (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2498365/ukb/climber_age.R)
## Filename climber_age.R
## Created 2014-11-21
## Author slackline
## Description Takes data on climbers age and the grade they
## have climbed, plots it, calculates correlation
## and makes a poor attempt at regressing age on
## ability (poor due to the paucity of data)
## Load libraries
## library(dplyr)
library(ggplot2)
library(mlogit)
## Read in the CSV
climbers <- read.csv("climber_age.csv",
header = TRUE)
## Define grade as a true factor variable
climbers$grade <- factor(climbers$grade,
levels = c("4", "5",
"6a", "6a+", "6b", "6b+", "6c", "6c+",
"7a", "7a+", "7b", "7b+", "7c", "7c+",
"8a", "8a+", "8b", "8b+", "8c", "8c+",
"9a", "9a+", "9b", "9b+", "9c", "9c+"))
climbers$gender <- factor(climbers$gender,
levels = c("female", "male"))
## Regress age and gender onto grade
##
## This means that if/when female data is added the difference
## between the sexes will be accounted for in the variation
## observed in grade
##
## NB - At present gender _isn't_ included because all of the
## data is on males only. If/when data on females is
## available/included then you should change each and
## every 'grade ~ age' to 'grade ~ age + gender' and
## this will then account for differences in gender
## that affect the grade climbed
##
## First we fit a linear relationship between age and grade
## accounting for the differences between gender. This is
## quite crude, but serves as a starting point
regress.linear <- lm(grade ~ age,
data = climbers)
## Look at the results, the number underneath the age variable
## tells you how much of a decrease in grade occurs with an
## increase in age by 1 year.
regress.linear
## But the relationship might not be linear so now we fit
## a regression model using the Loess method which performs
## local regression (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_regression)
regress.loess <- loess(as.numeric(grade) ~ age,
data = climbers)
## But thats still not the best approach since grades whilst
## offering some indication of relative difficulty might not
## show a linear relationship, so now try fitting a multinomial
## logistic regression model
##
## NB - Doesn't actually run yet
## regress.mlogit <- mlogit(grade ~ age,
## data = climbers,
## shape = "wide")
## Plot the Relationship
##
## This is done twice, the first one fits a line that represents
## a linear relationship as fitted by the linear grade regress
png(filename = "age_grade_linear.png", width=1024, height=768)
plot.linear <- ggplot(climbers,
aes(age, as.numeric(grade),
shape = gender,
fill = gender)) +
geom_point() + geom_smooth(method = lm,
fullrange = FALSE) +
xlab("Age (Years)") + ylab("Grade (French Sport)") +
scale_shape_manual(values = c(1, 2)) +
scale_y_continuous(breaks = seq(1:length(levels(climbers$grade))), labels = levels(climbers$grade)) +
ggtitle("Climbers Age and Maximum Grade Climbed (Linear)")
plot.linear
dev.off()
## The second fits a curve by a method called Loess which performs
## local regression
png(filename = "age_grade_loess.png", width=1024, height=768)
plot.loess <- ggplot(climbers,
aes(age, as.numeric(grade),
shape = gender
fill = gender)) +
geom_point() + geom_smooth(method = "loess",
fullrange = TRUE) +
xlab("Age (Years)") + ylab("Grade (French Sport)") +
scale_shape_manual(values = c(1, 2)) +
scale_y_continuous(breaks = seq(1:length(levels(climbers$grade))), labels = levels(climbers$grade)) +
ggtitle("Climbers Age and Maximum Grade Climbed (LOESS)")
plot.loess
dev.off()
If you can be bothered to collect more data download the CSV and R script and add the data to the "climber_age.csv" in the correct format (if including females then enter their gender as "female" and NOT "Female"). Then download RStudio (http://www.rstudio.com/) and you can re-run the script (you might have to install.packages("ggplot2") in order to plot the data). There are instructions within the script on how to account for gender in the regression models (the results of which I've not included in this post as I've not got time to explain them and besides there is too little data to say anything meaningful). Shouldn't need to do anything to code for the plots to get them to display each gender (although the Loess plots confindence intervals might not differentiate correctly).
Whats really needed is more data though, multiple peoples maximum grades at different ages, since currently this is cherry picking the most exceptional ascents at each age, which is not really a "benchmark" which is commonly held to be a common standard. There are perhaps two relatively simple approaches to addressing this, firstly scrape the data from 8a.poo or I guess I could setup a survey for denizens here to complete (and include historical aspects of people's maximum grades in the past and the age they achieved them), but I don't really have the time.
Since this is vaguely related to previous threads on benchmarking (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20900.0.html) and a few people asked recently for a copy of those results the PDF is available here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2498365/ukb/ukbenchmarking.pdf) (as the Wiki where I originally posted it no longer hosts PDFs). I might if I can find the time and motivation re-run the UKBenchmarking as there has been more data collected in the form I left open, but thats unlikely to happen anytime soon.
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Just count the rings...
I would be hoping they each had just one. In the usual place?
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Fuck the charts, get back to the real issues of how did these guys manage it, what was their previous experience, how did they avoid injury, how many of them DIDN'T have a background in other regular intensive exercise activities, etc etc. Need something to read in between doing weighted pull-ups in the park...
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Just count the rings...
I would be hoping they each had just one. In the usual place?
Twas a dendrochonological reference... I wood have hoped you'd twigged.
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I know exactly what it was. I was just trying to piggyback a shit joke on the rear end of yours.
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I know exactly what it was. I was just trying to piggyback a shit joke up the rear end of yours.
Does this mean we pun about sphincters or trees now - I'm confused ;)
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Neither. For fear of the wrath of Dense.
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For the women there's Muriel Sarkany with PuntX (9a) at age 39 - not sure of any others?
Audrey Sniezek did Lost Horizons last summer - 8c at 42 according to 8a.nu
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Clearly not linear so lets fit a Loess regression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_regression) line...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2498365/ukb/age_grade_loess.png)
Data (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2498365/ukb/climber_age.csv)
This graph should be perma-pasted to 'Significant repeats' and 'News' as a handy visual aide to calibrate spray against:
''Climbed 8c!''. Are you 50? Back around.
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:lol:
Also needs merging with a graph of youngest ascents so we have a definitive age range that each grade is impressive within.
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Very nice plots slackline. Just wondered about a couple of things.
Clearly grades are subjective at the best of times and really constitute categorical data rather than continuous data. But with those caveats can you correct the data some how for the fact that clearly going from 6a to 7a is easier than 8a to 9a. I.e. grades are really not a linear representation of difficultly. I sometimes log correct data to solve that kind of problem, but not sure if that would make it worse in this case. What do you think?
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Haha, sorry Habrich!
I looked at the graphs and then thought . . . . well exactly what everyone else is thinking, but didn't read the comments! :oops:
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:slap:
I feel like such a spanner now I've read through most of the thread . . . . back around Jamie, back around!
Anyway, very interesting topic. I have no excuses being only 30. I'll have to wait until i'm in my 80s before being cutting edge (if i'm alive!) :-)
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I think you'll find that I made a similar interpretation of your data... ;)
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Has everyone missed the post where someone posted a graph from other sports showing the decline in absolute performance with age?
It seems to me that the correspondence in shape between this graph and habrich's first graph is reasonable evidence that the steps between grades are linear. Which is what that post said.
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I must have missed it
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This is all well and good, and interesting, could we have a seperate thread for the same type of info for bouldering?
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might this info be better presented as oldest ascent for each grade? ie...
9b+: 31
9b: ?
9a+: ?
9a: 52
8c+: ?
8c: ?
8b+: 60
8b: ?
8a+: ?
8a: 68
etc...
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that looks a lot better duma!
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Yup. Much better. There is hope...
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In other words, is shaving 1 minute off a 3 hour time more or less impressive than shaving 1 minute off a 3:30 time for the same distance?
More impressive, clearly. No doubt that's why they've expressed their data as percentages.
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Yup. Much better. There is hope...
:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
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Nice link habrich - interesting that a few of them didn't start climbing till well into their fifties.
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(http://jap.physiology.org/content/jap/95/5/2152/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600)
Athletic performance declines steeply from mid 70s, even in endurance sports. Similar shaped graph - with units for tomtom - to sport climbing if we consider grades as linear.
From J Applied Physiology (http://jap.physiology.org/content/94/2/764)
More on this sort of thing here (http://quizlet.com/22767790/phy-lecture-1-t3-flash-cards/).
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John Gill's interviews with climbers still active in their 70s (http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/SeniorAthletes.html), from 2007
Flicked briefly onto one interview, seems very inspiring :)
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(http://jap.physiology.org/content/jap/95/5/2152/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600)
Athletic performance declines steeply from mid 70s, even in endurance sports. Similar shaped graph - with units for tomtom - to sport climbing if we consider grades as linear.
From J Applied Physiology (http://jap.physiology.org/content/94/2/764)
More on this sort of thing here (http://quizlet.com/22767790/phy-lecture-1-t3-flash-cards/).
Ahh.. That's peer review for you ;) #standards
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:off: but just heard this guy interviewed on Radio 5.
Sounded so sprightly and enthusiastic, quite amazing and inspiring.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-30170585 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-30170585)
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Totally useful. If I can consolidate at 7a and creep up a couple of 7bs I can make the Top Fifty over 40s in Germany.
MTG. :2thumbsup:
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I have no global aspirations. But as part of a total... Getting fitter / dropping BMI / wanting to cycle better lifestyle change.. Incl running ( no, don't start) free weights, core, yoga and climbing board work I'm hoping for some low 7s at font and home this Spring... I annually fluke the odd font 7a. Really hope to actually tick a few off in 2015.. I'm well established in my mid 4s these days..
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My cardiologist says "elderly" starts at 75. Way to go.
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Nice to see there's still room for improvement after 50.
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Nice to see there's still room for improvement after 50.
I'm banking on it :)
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I'd imagined my 50s would be spent popping out from behind rocks in Isatis, giving unwanted beta and pointing out all the hidden holds while covering everything in pof. Obviously wearing a very large pair of climbing shoes with socks.
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Nice to see there's still room for improvement after 50.
I'm banking on it :)
Me to :strongbench:
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I'd imagined my 50s would be spent popping out from behind rocks in Isatis, giving unwanted beta and pointing out all the hidden holds while covering everything in pof. Obviously wearing a very large pair of climbing shoes with socks.
This sounds excellent
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I'd imagined my 50s would be spent popping out from behind rocks in Isatis, giving unwanted beta and pointing out all the hidden holds while covering everything in pof. Obviously wearing a very large pair of climbing shoes with socks.
This sounds excellent
Indeed. You need a gnarly old beta stick to tap out the holds.. Be able to communicate in no language (yet sound strangely French) And wear a probably inappropriately tight pair of shorts to make the complete package :)
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Does Bill Ramsey deserve a mention - 5.14b(8c?) at 54? Didn't Stevie Haston climb another 9a after descent La Lotta too?
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I'd imagined my 50s would be spent popping out from behind rocks in Isatis, giving unwanted beta and pointing out all the hidden holds while covering everything in pof. Obviously wearing a very large pair of climbing shoes with socks.
This sounds excellent
Indeed. You need a gnarly old beta stick to tap out the holds.. Be able to communicate in no language (yet sound strangely French) And wear a probably inappropriately tight pair of shorts to make the complete package :)
The current crop manage to get their message across as long as you understand droite, gauche, main, pied, la, ici and a bit of mime in conjunction with comme ci & comme ca. Looking and behaving like Basil Fawlty is optional but preferable.
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I'd imagined my 50s would be spent popping out from behind rocks in Isatis, giving unwanted beta and pointing out all the hidden holds while covering everything in pof. Obviously wearing a very large pair of climbing shoes with socks.
This sounds excellent
There was somebody like this knocking around Burbage and Stanage when I started climbing in the Mid 80's. I remember him referring to Big Ron as "The Master".
Indeed. You need a gnarly old beta stick to tap out the holds.. Be able to communicate in no language (yet sound strangely French) And wear a probably inappropriately tight pair of shorts to make the complete package :)
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I thought Paul Reeve climbed 8c at 50! very impressive :strongbench:
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Why add the last one? Are you trying to work out and average.
8c at 50+ is impressive but not benchmark 8c at 40 is nothing. 9a at 30 isnt a big deal either. What about 9a+ at 13.
In my reckoning benchmark for 13- 9a+, 20-9b+,30-9b+, 40- 9a/9a+, 50-9a+, 60-8b+
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Why add the last one? Are you trying to work out and average.
8c at 50+ is impressive but not benchmark 8c at 40 is nothing. 9a at 30 isnt a big deal either. What about 9a+ at 13.
In essence yes, if you want to look at "highest grade climbed for a given age" thats a different question to "benchmark grade climbed for a given age" since a benchmark is noun a standard or point of reference against which things may be compared or assessed. (https://www.google.com/search?q=define+benchmark) and exceptional performances (i.e. the highest grade for a given age) are not therefore "benchmarks". Really to make sense of what the "benchmark" is for a given age you need lots of data points at all ages. This dataset is very limited mainly to whats been posted in this thread (although I've added a few high-level performances mainly of younger people I shouldn't really cherry pick, if you've data on what is an "impressive", or better still commonly climbed grade for the age of 40 then post it up). I don't have the time to go and research/collect the necessary data, but the data I've collated so far and the code I've written to generate the graphs is available for anyone else who wants to do this.
I'm guessing your "9a+ at 13" is Ashima? I would add that in but that would make her the only female on the list and no line could therefore be drawn. Would be good if people who know equivalent data for women could post it up.
If you or anyone else wants to post up their or anyone else performance in the format shown I'll add it in and re-draw the graphs. Quote this and add your details in...
name,age,grade,gender
"Chris Sharma",31,9b+,"male"
"Stevie Haston",52,9a,"male"
"Manolo",51,9a,fe"male"
"Francesco Marin",60,8b+,"male"
"Lee Sheftel",59,8b+,"male"
"Herman Gollner",70,7c+,"male"
"Lee Sheftel",68,8a,"male"
"Stimson Bullitt",83,6a,"male"
"Fred Beckey",93,4,"male"
"Adam Ondra",19,9b+,"male"
"Alex Megos",20,9a,"male"
"Beat Kammerlander",50,"8b+","male"
"Eneko Pou",40,"8c","male"
"Ben Moon",48,"9a","male"
"Bill Ramsey",54,"8c","male"
"Ethan Pringle",27,"9b","male"
"Seb Bouin",22,"9b","male"
"Paul Reeve",50,"8c","male"
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I know what the dictionary definition is but reading the rest of this topic it would appear that most people were looking at hardest.
Without the addition of what are we benchmarking such as "high level performance bench marking" or "beginner, intermediate and expert benchmarks" surely we can only assume that we are looking at the highest grade.
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I didn't misname the thread. ;)
I think a much larger data set regardless of beginner/intermediate/expert/high level performance would be more interesting than cherry picking, but as I wrote don't have the inclination to gather that.
If you want to remove some you don't think should be in there and add in others you think should be and redraw the graphs you're free to do so (the main reason I've posted up the data, and code and some simple instructions for others to play with).
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I wasnt questioning your graph really, i was questioning the suggestions put forward that were included, especially the 8c at 40 ones which appear to be well below the benchmarks already suggested.
If benchmarks are to be the highest level climbed in certain age groups 8a? <10 ;9b <20; 9b+20s and 30s ;9a/9a+ 40s and 50s. Pretty simple really.
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I've understood your question. I included Eneko Pou ages ago before this thread was resurrected, probably because there had been a news item at the time and I'd not head of many other 40 year olds climbing 8c. Beat Kammerlander's 8b+ at 50 falls outside the confidence interval for the fitted LOESS curve too, but....pull data points out and you change the fitted curve!!
I don't like grouping data into age bands myself, removes the fine resolution of the variation within.
I think the thread needs renaming as its very misleading.
If its to become highest level climbed at a given age then you'll only get one or two entries at each age. I also still think it would be useful to have more data on more peoples hardest ascents at each age as it would then go some way to demonstrating how exceptional the hardest ascents at each age are because outliers of extreme performance are only interesting when placed in context of the variation that exists.
:offtopic:
The code is quite flexible though so anyone could make their own personalised data set and plot their hardest climbs over against their age, for example if someone downloaded the script and made their own climbers_age.csv similar to this it would then plot it...
name,age,grade,gender
"me",21,6a,"male"
"me",22,6b,"male"
"me",23,6b,"male"
"me",24,6b,"male"
"me",25,6b,"male"
"me",26,6b,"male"
"me",27,6b,"male"
"me",28,6b+,"male"
"me",29,6b+,"male"
"me",30,6b+,"male"
"me",31,6b+,"male"
"me",32,6b+,"male"
"me",33,6b+,"male"
"me",34,6c,"male"
"me",35,6c,"male"
"me",36,6c+,"male"
"me",37,6c+,"male"
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i think the name is fitting and your analysis of the data too. benchmarking is gooood :thumbsup:
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Older Athletes Have a Strikingly Young Fitness Age (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/older-athletes-have-a-strikingly-young-fitness-age/)
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"The senior Olympics" yup, that's a national USA thing...
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I notice that the 'older persons' category at many climbing wall comps in the UK is 40 and above...
Obviously wanting to feel better about my own age - doesn't this seem a little low??
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Older Athletes Have a Strikingly Young Fitness Age (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/01/older-athletes-have-a-strikingly-young-fitness-age/)
Took that test (could only estimate max heart rate, it might be higher) and in cardiovascular terms I'm the age of an average 24 year-old woohoo! Though it did make me question whether the 'average 24 year-old' isn't as good a level of cardiovascular fitness as it might have been 24 years ago...
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I notice that the 'older persons' category at many climbing wall comps in the UK is 40 and above...
Obviously wanting to feel better about my own age - doesn't this seem a little low??
We tend to use 45 at the Beacon. Even then the 59's and 60's tend to win, too many legends residing in North Wales.
One of our Regulars; Ginger Cain, is leading 6a indoors, and has a back like Lou Ferrino, due to getting an annual pass to while away his retirement, Seem to remember he's 83+. Joe Brown says Ginger is the fittest/strongest he's ever been since he's known him.
Sheila Maskrey was still getting up F6a+s recently and shes late 70's.
The Rock and Ice crowd tend to congregate at the wall on Fridays, and the average age rises to about 65 or so...
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I notice that the 'older persons' category at many climbing wall comps in the UK is 40 and above...
Obviously wanting to feel better about my own age - doesn't this seem a little low??
Ours used to be 45, until the year I turned 45 they moved it to 40. Now I have to compete with these young early 40s whippersnappers. Not as bad as when I used to compete with 20 year olds when I was in my early 40s I guess.
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The Climbing Hangar have a policy of increasing the age annually to stop Andy Farnell entering... Entertaining!
*This may not be strictly true but I'm sure there was some controversy involving said Farnell and a kick off about the age range...
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Apparently the 45 at ours was introduced a while back to wind up one particular strong individual (not me I hasten to add).
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I notice that the 'older persons' category at many climbing wall comps in the UK is 40 and above...
Obviously wanting to feel better about my own age - doesn't this seem a little low??
Ours used to be 45, until the year I turned 45 they moved it to 40. Now I have to compete with these young early 40s whippersnappers. Not as bad as when I used to compete with 20 year olds when I was in my early 40s I guess.
That's my problem :) and I'm shit at indoor climbing. *other climbing types may be similar.
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The only comp I've ever done was a couple of years ago at Rockover and came second in the vets catergory to someone who'd only turned 40 that week.
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Look at you.
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Down ever since eh? ;)
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Where's my fucking medal ?
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Oh yes and I beat Hank Pasquil which basically means I'm better than Ryan..
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Where's my fucking medal ?
Xx
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/02/04f21376c9e08ac41ed4cadeabf601f7.jpg)
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some inspiration for the young folk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/get-inspired/34665818
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Forgot about this thread. A couple weeks ago Doug (60) did a new spicy trad route. About french 8a/+ he hasn't given me a trad grade yet but I'd imagine top end E8/E9 7a. He's getting close to his harder project also...
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Still going bloody strong. Guess he might slow down a bit now strictly is back on
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awesome :strongbench: Dougie Hall?
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Still going bloody strong. Guess he might slow down a bit now strictly is back on
;D
Yes Dougie Hall
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Get him to tell you about Pete Gomersall and the Blue Scar routes.
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I'll ask when I next see him.
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I surrender:
https://instagram.com/p/BW011MVDvw0/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I like the list in principle but I can't get behind the rounding up the ages. It's been bugging me for days but thought would make me seem weird to say.
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Purely talking about the ages and ignoring the decade categories for a sec, this is how I see the data:
(http://imgur.com/1LAZlJ9)
http://imgur.com/1LAZlJ9
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Training link-ups don't count. Clearly.
Descente Lolita has pretty much the same grade as “Descente aux enfers” 8c/+ since it has a perfect rest after “Descente...” followed by an 8a-bit to the top [according to Pierre Trolliet which I think is the only one to have repeated the route]. (Also: “Descente en terre inconnue” which links all of “Descente aux enfers” into the hard part of “Tierra incognita”, 8c, is an easy 9a according to both the FA Lucien Martinez and 1st repeater Josef Savarino)
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Beat Kammerlander "Kampfzone" (8c, 8a obl.) at 58 (http://www.planetmountain.com/en/news/climbing/beat-kammerlander-frees-kampfzone-a-rare-climbing-gem-in-the-ratikon.html).
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Purely talking about the ages and ignoring the decade categories for a sec, this is how I see the data:
(http://imgur.com/1LAZlJ9)
http://imgur.com/1LAZlJ9
I find that really depressing - I've got to keep up my current standard for another 20 years before I can let myself go and blame my age for the decline! 20 more years before I feel I can justify spending the occasional weekend eating cake and drinking gin, and not feel duty bound to keep up a regime of midweek training and weekend missions to cold, damp crags (I would always keep up the home board climbing though.... woodie sessions are both fun and brutally satisfying).
By the way, love the old lady dead-lifting video - what makes it priceless is that after her lifts, she immediately reverts to resembling a slightly doddery granny (although that could be lactic acid and psyche induced staggering) - even down to looking momentarily confused when offered a high 5 by the trainer.
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90: Marcel Remy "Miroir de l'Argentine" 5b (https://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.8a.nu%2Fforum%2FViewForumThread.aspx%3FObjectId%3D45145%26ObjectClass%3DCLS_UserNewsComment%26CountryCode%3DGLOBAL) at 94
Father of Swiss new route machines Claude et Yves, I assume.
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tim lowe had a good crack at shockhorror on sunday, didn't end too well for his heel bone though.
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And Marcel Remy again, a few years previously:
80: Stars on Stage 6a, Kalymnos. (Source; photo on p.143 of the 2016 guidebook)
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Kind of on topic: blog from Jonathan Siegrist about his dad achieving a new personal best (5.13b) at 67 - http://blog.arcteryx.com/optimist-jonathan-siegrists-dad/
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Kind of on topic: blog from Jonathan Siegrist about his dad achieving a new personal best (5.13b) at 67 - http://blog.arcteryx.com/optimist-jonathan-siegrists-dad/
Very on topic, it gets him on the list.
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be interested to see more data points in the seventies - shape of the curve from 8a to 6a
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I personally think the individual curve is interesting... rather than the individual performance (good as it is) of an 80 YO doing a 6a... (not dissing the thread - just pointing out my own interest in this)
So Haston and Moon have managed to sustain - if not increase their 'performance' (in terms of grade) through into their 50's...
I am of course interested as at the tender age of (ahem) 47 and 11/12ths, the line on my curve is still going up (slowly!) and I'm wondering how long I can sustain this general upward trajectory...
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90: Marcel Remy "Miroir de l'Argentine" 5b (https://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.8a.nu%2Fforum%2FViewForumThread.aspx%3FObjectId%3D45145%26ObjectClass%3DCLS_UserNewsComment%26CountryCode%3DGLOBAL) at 94
Father of Swiss new route machines Claude et Yves, I assume.
"NW of" doesn't say actual route, there are about a dozen on it? I think "directe" goes at about that grade, brilliant climbing on a great crag.
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Updated graphs...
(https://i.imgur.com/S2MMhYO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/liyreq5.png)
A more usefully formatted dataset of what others have posted. I've added Josune Bereziartu's (http://www.planetmountain.com/en/news/climbing/video-josune-bereziartu-and-the-first-female-9a-climb.html) and Ashima Shishari's ascents (still need more data, particularly in women, across all ages and I maintain that a 'benchmark' is not the term for the best performance for a given age).
name,age,grade,gender
"Chris Sharma",31,9b+,"male"
"Stevie Haston",52,9a,"male"
"Manolo",51,9a,"male"
"Francesco Marin",60,8b+,"male"
"Lee Sheftel",59,8b+,"male"
"Herman Gollner",70,7c+,"male"
"Lee Sheftel",68,8a,"male"
"Stimson Bullitt",83,6a,"male"
"Fred Beckey",93,4,"male"
"Adam Ondra",19,9b+,"male"
"Adam Ondra",24,9c,"male"
"Alex Megos",20,9a,"male"
"Beat Kammerlander",50,"8b+","male"
"Eneko Pou",40,"8c","male"
"Ben Moon",48,"9a","male"
"Bill Ramsey",54,"8c","male"
"Ethan Pringle",27,"9b","male"
"Seb Bouin",22,"9b","male"
"Paul Reeve",50,"8c","male"
"Dave Stainthorpe",65,"7c+","male"
"Steve McClure",46,"9b","male"
"Muriel Sarkany",43,"9a","female"
"Marcel Remy",80,"6a","male"
"Bob Siegrist",67,"8a","male"
"Josune Bereziartu",30,"9a","female"
"Josune Bereziartu",32,"9a+","female"
"Ashima Shiraishi",13,"9a/+","female"
...and the code in R (https://www.r-project.org/) for generating the above and fitting regression curves...
library(ggplot2)
## Read in the CSV
climbers <- read.csv("climber_age.csv",
header = TRUE)
## Define grade as a true factor variable
climbers$grade <- factor(climbers$grade,
levels = c("4", "5",
"6a", "6a+", "6b", "6b+", "6c", "6c+",
"7a", "7a+", "7b", "7b+", "7c", "7c+",
"8a", "8a+", "8b", "8b+", "8c", "8c+",
"9a", "9a/+", "9a+", "9b", "9b/+", "9b+", "9c", "9c+"))
climbers$gender <- factor(climbers$gender,
levels = c("female", "male"))
## Regress age and gender onto grade
##
##
## First we fit a linear relationship between age, gender and grade
## accounting for the differences between gender. This is
## quite crude, but serves as a starting point
regress.linear <- lm(grade ~ age + gender,
data = climbers)
## Look at the results, the number underneath the age variable
## tells you how much of a decrease in grade occurs with an
## increase in age by 1 year.
regress.linear
## But the relationship might not be linear so now we fit
## a regression model using the Loess method which performs
## local regression (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_regression)
regress.loess <- loess(as.numeric(grade) ~ age + as.numeric(gender),
data = climbers)
## Plot the Relationship
##
## This is done twice, the first one fits a line that represents
## a linear relationship as fitted by the linear grade regress
png(filename = "age_grade_linear.png", width=1024, height=768)
plot.linear <- ggplot(climbers,
aes(age, as.numeric(grade),
shape = gender,
fill = gender)) +
geom_point() + geom_smooth(method = lm,
fullrange = FALSE) +
xlab("Age (Years)") + ylab("Grade (French Sport)") +
scale_shape_manual(values = c(1, 2)) +
scale_y_continuous(breaks = seq(1:length(levels(climbers$grade))), labels = levels(climbers$grade)) +
ggtitle("Climbers Age and Maximum Grade Climbed (Linear)") +
theme_bw()
plot.linear
dev.off()
## The second fits a curve by a method called Loess which performs
## local regression (currently not yet fitting curves for both genders
png(filename = "age_grade_loess.png", width=1024, height=768)
plot.loess <- ggplot(climbers,
aes(age, as.numeric(grade),
label = name,
shape = gender,
fill = gender)) +
geom_point() + geom_smooth(method = "loess",
fullrange = TRUE) +
xlab("Age (Years)") + ylab("Grade (French Sport)") +
scale_shape_manual(values = c(1, 2)) +
scale_y_continuous(breaks = seq(1:length(levels(climbers$grade))), labels = levels(climbers$grade)) +
ggtitle("Climbers Age and Maximum Grade Climbed (LOESS)") +
theme_bw()
## geom_text(size = 2, angle = 0, hjust=-0.5, vjust=0)
plot.loess
dev.off()
I am of course interested as at the tender age of (ahem) 47 and 11/12ths, the line on my curve is still going up (slowly!) and I'm wondering how long I can sustain this general upward trajectory...
You can use the above R code to plot your own data if you format it correctly, call the filename the same thing (or adjust the code to reflect the location and name of your file) and then extrapolate as you choose (although its always somewhat folly to try and make predictions beyond the range of data).
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Sorry to muck up the dataset, I should have specified that the Marcel Remy 6a in the "80" bucket was actually at 88. Which puts him bang on the curve, well done Marcel.
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Only ascents that have been verified should be on the list. I know there's some doubt around some of the claims listed above. Just sayin'
(I must be feeling especially sceptical having seen 'Shadowplay' 8C with my own eyes this past weekend).
#climbers #fantasists #egos
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:agree:
Goes for at least two points of data.
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Only ascents that have been verified should be on the list. I know there's some doubt around some of the claims listed above. Just sayin'
(I must be feeling especially sceptical having seen 'Shadowplay' 8C with my own eyes this past weekend).
#climbers #fantasists #egos
:agree:
Goes for at least two points of data.
I don't know which are doubted (be it grade or ascent) so can not do so.
Feel free to take the data and code and re-run it, even if you don't have any inclination to use R you can plot it in whatever you are familiar with, its why I took the time to include it along with the code.
Sorry to muck up the dataset, I should have specified that the Marcel Remy 6a in the "80" bucket was actually at 88. Which puts him bang on the curve, well done Marcel.
That is one of the disadvantages of binning continuous data. You can change the data and re-run too if you wish.
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Some 48 year old Italian fella has just done his first 9a.
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:agree:
Goes for at least two points of data.
Not sure which ones you're doubting apart from the grade of Descente Lolita. But Stevie also climbed Hugh, 9a, at 52.
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Ah, that's true.
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Patxi, moving towards veteran territory at 37, is about on the best fit line with Pachamama 9a+/b
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Feel like we should have this here (apologies if its been posted before): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUJnZeCc7Hw
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
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That's one hell of a plateau ::)
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Good effort is that - the same one every year might not have the same resonance. (wadded BTW Munch)
I was thinking perhaps a 'Benchmarks for the broken' thread might a good idea, something along the lines of Deliverance with a broken left wrist or 3 Pebble Slab with only two toes.
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Devil's Slide with no hands..
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
I'm not trying to belittle practice, but is that E8 onsight every year?
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Steve Crowe has set a new uk benchmark having just redpointed an 8b+ at 60 years young.
Logged on 8a.nu : Mundo Feliz at Villanueva del Rosario
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:clap2: PB grade-wise as well, I take it?
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
I'm not trying to belittle practice, but is that E8 onsight every year?
I'd be surprised if it was onsight, Nick's always been a headpoint wad in my mind.
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:clap2: PB grade-wise as well, I take it?
Yes. A PB too. Which gives hope to us all
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
I'm not trying to belittle practice, but is that E8 onsight every year?
I'd be surprised if it was onsight, Nick's always been a headpoint wad in my mind.
I thought Lagers' comment was a little off to be honest. Even now, onsights of E8 and E9 are quite rare and tend to be concentrated in relatively hard and relatively safe routes (e.g. in Pembroke) that aren't necessarily Nick's forte. Even if none of Nick's ascents were onsight/ground up (though I'd be surprised if there weren't some in there somewhere) I doubt anyone can match such a level of performance over such a long, unbroken period of time.
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
I'm not trying to belittle practice, but is that E8 onsight every year?
I'd be surprised if it was onsight, Nick's always been a headpoint wad in my mind.
I thought Lagers' comment was a little off to be honest. Even now, onsights of E8 and E9 are quite rare and tend to be concentrated in relatively hard and relatively safe routes (e.g. in Pembroke) that aren't necessarily Nick's forte. Even if none of Nick's ascents were onsight/ground up (though I'd be surprised if there weren't some in there somewhere) I doubt anyone can match such a level of performance over such a long, unbroken period of time.
Agreed. It's phenomenal to maintain that level of psyche for so many years. I think I led E5 every year for 22 years until five years ago. Most people at least seem to have a break at some point (job/kids etc).
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To your last point Tom, Nick has probably worked continuously throughout that period and has had four children (and one grandchild now).
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Impressive that Nick has maintained that standard for so long but it really doesn't surprise me as he is one of the most psyched people I've ever met!
I used to spend quite a bit of time at Nesscliffe and he'd nearly always appear at some point, running up to the crag in a pair of leggings, do a lap or two on the 7B Berlin Wall traverse, run up to the Terrace and do laps on the 7C trav up there. All while having a chat and just being super positive. I'm pretty sure this was part of his school run!
He's a keen runner and cyclist as well, all this with plenty of kids like Andy said. He really is an inspiration.
Those who have him on Facebook have probably seen he's still up at Nesscliffe all the time, does laps on the 8A version of the terrace trav now and has been trying a hard route project there which Caff has been trying to, something up around vert 8c I think, crazy!
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
I'm not trying to belittle practice, but is that E8 onsight every year?
I'd be surprised if it was onsight, Nick's always been a headpoint wad in my mind.
I thought Lagers' comment was a little off to be honest. Even now, onsights of E8 and E9 are quite rare and tend to be concentrated in relatively hard and relatively safe routes (e.g. in Pembroke) that aren't necessarily Nick's forte. Even if none of Nick's ascents were onsight/ground up (though I'd be surprised if there weren't some in there somewhere) I doubt anyone can match such a level of performance over such a long, unbroken period of time.
yes, I didn't write that very well
:oops:
I have no idea about ground up standards
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Steve Crowe has set a new uk benchmark having just redpointed an 8b+ at 60 years young.
Logged on 8a.nu : Mundo Feliz at Villanueva del Rosario
.
More on Steve's achievement: https://climber.co.uk/news/latest-news/karin-magog-and-steve-crowe-redpoint-mundo-felix-f8b.html
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When Angus Kille did Indian Face the other day, Johnny Dawes and Nick Dixon also happened to be at the crag. Johnny established a new E7 (Island, right of the Drainpipe Crack) and Nick did the second ascent. Over the last couple of weeks Nick has also done Authentic Desire and Fecundity Ridge, both E7. Nothing spectacular but its nice to see these two still climbing together some 35 years after it all began.
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I am constantly impressed with what the 50 year olds are doing, can’t wait to get there.
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Since Johnny did the E7 right of the Drainpipe, Nick has done what he's describing as the true direct on Curving Arete, another E7, Johnny has done the wall left of November, E6, and just today Nick a line breaking left out of Troach; haven't seen a grade for this one yet but Nick describes it as gnarly and dangerous so I would guess its at least another E7.
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2 old men transforming the profile of the crag over the space of a couple of days. Awesome.
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2 old men transforming the profile of the crag over the space of a couple of days. Awesome.
Fixed that for you Chris.
:)
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Any photos of these latest Cloggy routes about?
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There are plenty on Nick's FB page, haven't seen any elsewhere.
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Mick Lovatt has made the 3rd ascent of the steep and loose Requiem for a Vampire (E8 6b) :punk:
https://www.facebook.com/dmmclimbing/photos/a.191468200900971.48257.120904307957361/1788430127871429/?type=3&theater
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Phil Davidson has been ticking E7 and E8 this year, after what I think has been a pretty long lay off.
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This is a great story! When I first started I got hold of a magazine, probably Mountain, with an article by or about Jones and Hudon that I read and reread obsessively, as you do as fourteen year old.
https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/mark-hudon-63-climbs-freerider-99-7-free-as-can-be/?fbclid=IwAR0Y3BkUGKPSr4OCaFlbPVeneQAFgDnx2LpbM9wGjd_ax5TzomTHE4y6aMM
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
Pretty certain Nick has extended this run another two years. I wouldn't bet against him stretching it to forty years.
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48 year old grandfather Akira Waku has climbed Hydrangea (8C or C+, he thinks solid 8C+). Didn’t start climbing til 35, I wonder if he had a background in a different sport before then?
https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/48-year-old-akira-waku-of-japan-sends-v15-16-with-video/?cn-reloaded=1
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Gonna hazard a guess it wasn't a background in sodding toy soldier painting :-\
Edit: Tattoos = ex-yakuza = hard as nails. Plus BMI in fractions not even whole numbers. Good fight / ascent!
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64 year old Chuck Odette climbs 8c (https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/chuck-odette-sends-5-14b-at-age-64/?fbclid=IwAR1vRBeI-s_2d4oOyL9lUxjrsJZQycwRVYm6cBJ6QAgY6UrdZfnC9lAulNw&cn-reloaded=1).
I don’t know anything about the route but have there been any other 60-somethings climbing this grade?
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Maple is well known for having variable difficulty as the the routes are usually getting easier over time as pebbles fall off and expose new pockets. I've been told that the trick is to climb the routes after they have gotten easier but before they are downgraded...
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44 - F9a+ - Iker Pou (FA of Great Guggenheim 9a+ in Mallorca , news on jens.nu)
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44 - F9a+ - Iker Pou (FA of Great Guggenheim 9a+ in Mallorca , news on jens.nu)
Since when is 44 elderly! Back around yoof.
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It's a bit of an outlier for 9a+ I think.....
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Looking for inspiration, I saw the title and thought "I'm sure she isn't quite that old.." ;D
Strong OAP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEk101lXJ8Q
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Yuji Hirayama again.
9a at 53 years old:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CawztQhl7Nr/
If confirmed I think this is a new benchmark.
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Isn't this the second time he named a route hirayama (平山)? Then agin, he is Mr. Hirayama.
Note 平 carries both the connotations of flat/plain or peaceful, depending on context.
Edit: My bad, apparently he named a route フラットマウンテン (Flat mountain) which is a play on the reading of his family name.
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Not climbing, but skiing 96 days in a season at 96 years old is impressive. Great name too.
https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/04/27/96-year-old-skier-snowbird/
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I bought myself my first set of touring skis for my 61st birthday, in anticipation of my body not being able to handle trying hard at sport climbing for much longer
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Every winter there comes the point where I think xc skis would be handy around town, or at least in the suburbs where I live. For about a week.
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I bought myself my first set of touring skis for my 61st birthday, in anticipation of my body not being able to handle trying hard at sport climbing for much longer
You should go trad climbing. Age presents no barrier to feeling scared.
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Dunno, I've got much more feart as I've got older.
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That’s what I said ;)
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Sorry, misunderstood.
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This conversation about age and being cautious made me curious, so after some idle googling I found this newspaper article: Age influence perception of fear https://nocamels.com/2015/06/age-influences-perception-of-fear/
based on this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352289515300217
The upshot is that young rats eliminate fear much quicker than old rats, since the fear extinction process in the prefrontal cortex works differently in young rats.
I was curious to see if there has been any experiments on humans, so I briefly checked papers that quoted the above paper, but I need to mark lots of hand-ins so I don't have time this week. For the future maybe.
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Enjoyed this, Rob Matheson on a Nesscliffe E7 (72):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF3KeGGRBU4
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Brilliant
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Alan Carne has done Crackaholic, an 8a trad route at Bohuslan. Sounds like quite a siege from his fb page (sorry I can’t cut and paste the entry on my phone). Alan is 62 apparently, 8a at that age seems unusual but not groundbreaking, but how many people in their 60s are climbing that level on gear?
https://www.facebook.com/1246137439/posts/10228844252871558
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'Crackaholic' 8a Trad. (E8?) Bohuslan. Released but still in a state of shock processing the weeks of mental (and physical) battering this climb has been dealing out. A total war of attrition shared with so many patient belayers. Success always so close yet so far, then an knee injury a couple weeks ago screamed 'Game Over' and almost exhausted the psych for this year. Glad I kept trying. Much thanks and gratitude to all my partners during the process. Jesper, Leo, Said Belhaj, Johan, Stefan ('The Wolfman'), and especially today Freja Shannon for the no stress encouragement and perfect catches.
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At age 62, author Jo Nesbø has achieved his aim of climbing of his first 8a. A great effort for anyone, but even more so considering he didn't start climbing until his 40s. Great interview/story here in 8a.nu.
https://www.8a.nu/news/jo-nesbos-62-road-to-8a
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That reminds me that I should add it here as well.
Jean-Pierre Bouvier opened Contre-courant a there-and-back traverse at a suggested grade of 9A traverse (approximately as physically hard as a 9a+route) at 65 years of age.
https://fanatic-climbing.com/jean-pierre-bouvier-a-contre-courant-jean-pierre-bouvier-another-vision/
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Delphine Chenevier has done her second 8b+ at 47 years of age. She did her first when she was 46
https://www.instagram.com/p/CqODNTSNml8/
I'm not up to date with the best performances of veteran women, but it is probably up there with the best?
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Assumed update here was about Chris Sharma too!
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He’s not in anyway shape or form elderly. He’s at his peak.
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Maybe so, but he made the list here for 9b+ aged 31
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Akirawaku from Japan at 52 has repeated Birth of the Cool 8B+ and is now projecting an 8C+ !
https://youtu.be/jNGA2KIaVes
Google translation from article in Up Climbing
The Japanese repeats Birth of the Cool in Shiobara
Akira Waku is a name that on UP Climbing we have already got to know and celebrate on a couple of occasions!
In 2018, at the age of 47, this Japanese climber arrived at the 8C boulder with the famous Babel line at Shiobara. In 2019, still here, he won the 8C+ of Hydrangea, another creature by Dai Koyamada, a world record considering his chronological age. To make his story even more incredible is the fact that Akira started climbing at the age of 35 without any previous physical preparation and as a complete self-taught, building his own gym…
Another four years have passed, and Waku has passed the fifty. Despite this, he continued to grind training and bouldering and always on this great roof of Shiobara on May 21st he returned to very high levels. The Japanese has in fact secured the fifth ascent of Birth of the Cool, which with its 8B+ could set another record at 52! Moreover, Akira has announced his next project: the 8C+ of Nexus.
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I hesitate to imply that Nick Dixon is old, but I learnt today he's climbed E8 (or E9) every year since 1986 - that's 31 years.
Pretty certain Nick has extended this run another two years. I wouldn't bet against him stretching it to forty years.
The being bold bit of trad. skills fades with age for nearly everyone who isn't Nick Dixon.
Nick is clearly a secret ukb stalker as, right on cue, he repeated The Hollow Man the day after this post! (source: his FB page (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0iQqJuv1wJoXPuc5bazRDawByHPXhce1yh7PKMGjN3YjAmCc4PWPjUzBMt7C3Lyhzl&id=100016134670204&eav=Afb1OONXYizqxr8SDdMscPK_d46GcSc6HPzmNvGfolf7nS1ANy-RdqUDfgKCKCxBSgQ&m_entstream_source=timeline&paipv=0)).