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the shizzle => shootin' the shit => music, art and culture => Topic started by: largeruk on September 15, 2021, 07:33:06 pm

Title: Kindle conundrum
Post by: largeruk on September 15, 2021, 07:33:06 pm
Prompted by @TobyD's thread (https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,31497 (https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,31497)), I thought I'd ask forum members for their advice about whether Kindles actually cut it.

As a long time 'real book' reader I'm seriously contemplating grubbying my soul and buying a Kindle - largely for sheer convenience when travelling/away from home. However, funds are not exactly flush so will probably have to be a secondhand one.

I'd be really grateful for any feedback from Kindle users on their experiences - if only I'd known then what I know now, pros/cons, idiosyncracies, touch, feel, lighting, best models etc.

Are they almost as good as having a real book in your hands or is the experience still somewhat 'digital'? I've tried reading on a phone and a tablet but just can't get on with it. Is a Kindle closer to a book or to a handheld device like a phone/tablet?

TLDR: how close is it to the actual book holding/turning the page/feeling the paper experience?
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Rocksteady on September 15, 2021, 07:57:51 pm
Just to establish bibliophilic pedigree - I'm a lifelong incorrigible reader, I have degree in English literature and I'm a novelist. I love books and reading.

I'm a massive fan of Kindle and do 90% of my reading on one. I'm on my third version: first one was one of the early ones which had gold-plated tech and could download files anywhere (but clearly had been built only to last a couple of years), second one lasted 5 or 6 years until I dropped it down the stairs onto its top corner. My latest one is a Kindle Paperwhite with backlight and waterproofing.

Main thing I love about it is the sheer volume of books you can carry around on it. I read between 30-50 books most years which would quickly fill my small home or cause me constant annoying trips to second hand bookstores/Oxfam to donate my read copies. Kindle solves that problem. Great for commutes, even better for holidays. I also like that I can make the font larger to put less strain on my eyes.

For me Kindle is much closer to a book than a tablet or phone. I cannot read on blue screen devices with scrolling etc, it gives me bad eye strain and I just don't enjoy it. On a Kindle it's a tap(or you can set it to be a drag like turning a page). It's designed to replicate the book experience in terms of reflection and light absorption etc which I personally think it does very well.

Only downside for me is navigating around a book if you've somehow lost your page. Usually it saves to your last read point which is a plus. But if you lose this by accidentally clicking around it's a lot more difficult to find your page than flicking through the pages on a book for a familiar bit. You have to work out what chapter you last remember being in and click forward from there.

The other thing I don't rate it for is reference books - anything with lots of pictures, anything about training for something that you want to skip to relevant sections of it's very clunky.

For novels or word-dominant non-fiction I'm a 'Kindle-first' person. I'll only buy hard copy if I particularly love the author or I want to have it as a collectible.

There you go - one very pro-Kindle reader here.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Falling Down on September 15, 2021, 08:04:41 pm
I’ve had a Kindle for years, an early one and then a paperwhite.  In my experience, it’s totally different to reading on a tablet or a phone and much closer to the book experience, even down to the screen texture which is paper’ish.  I certainly have more opportunity to read, and read more than if I was just reading physical books, especially big ones.

Upsides:
- Portability.
- Ease of reading. Being able to adjust the font size is brilliant as I find some paperbacks too small and tiring to read these days.
- The paperwhite tech is super easy on the eyes and for reading in the dark.
- No rustling and lights on that might wake up a sleeping partner.
- Highlighting passages.
- Tapping on a word for the dictionary (I do this with real books by accident now)
- Charge lasts for weeks.

Downsides:
- You don’t own the books.
- Amazon.
- Anything with pictures in is rubbish.
- The bookmarking facility is OK, but it’s not the same as being able to flick through and find what you were looking for.

Edit: What Rocksteady said...

 
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: dunnyg on September 15, 2021, 08:08:23 pm
I have a fancy waterproof one (paperwhite?), and rate it.

I only tend to use it when going away, and it is great. No more carting round chunky books, if you stick it in the car/van/tent, it doesn't matter if it gets a bit damp. Very convenient. I am still a proper book toucher at heart, I think books are boss, but as a result we have too many in our house.

I agree that stuff with pictures is a bit shit, I tried to read a bouldering training PDF on there and it was painful, whereas the book itself is amazing.

Other than that, it is great for reading, actually nicer than a book sometimes in some situations, e.g. I can read in the dark without having a light on and annoying my partner, I can sit and read for as long as I would a normal book and my eyes are fine. Battery life is usually not usually ever an issue.

I don't like supporting the amazon machine, which is my only drawback. If you can aquire PDFs from elsewhere it is very straightforward to put them on though, which is nice. I think you can share libraries with people, but haven't explored this feature.

Verdict: Ace for away from home, not as nice as a book but much more practical in general, feeding the amazon machine is sad.

If you are interested in the actual model number I can dig it out, but I got it a while ago.

Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: dunnyg on September 15, 2021, 08:09:31 pm
Well that is the same opinions 3 times. Hopefully helpful (or are we all amazonbots?)
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Paul B on September 15, 2021, 08:09:56 pm
In terms of the hardware Lagers, we have one of the original ones and despite it having a wobble a few times and needing a hard reset to get back on track it's still going strong. These must be very very cheap secondhand?
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Falling Down on September 15, 2021, 08:11:56 pm
Oh and I’m on my second paperwhite, the first one developed some problems after a while (like 2 or 3 years) and they just sent me another without blinking.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Fiend on September 15, 2021, 08:17:42 pm
Are they almost as good as having a real book in your hands or is the experience still somewhat 'digital'? I've tried reading on a phone and a tablet but just can't get on with it. Is a Kindle closer to a book or to a handheld device like a phone/tablet?

TLDR: how close is it to the actual book holding/turning the page/feeling the paper experience?

Nope, nope, and nope.

Are they bloody great?? Yes.

I don't have a Kindle, I have a Kobo - I got the latter because it had the option for less whitespace around the text than the comparable Kindle at the time. This was a mistake as it is pretty buggy and prone to crashing. Thus, get a Kindle.

Reading on them is nothing like turning the pages of a brutally-slaughtered carbon-deficit tree, but it - the "e-ink" screen - is a lot better and gentler than a phone / tablet.

The three main things I like:

1. Instant purchase and no need to have physical items cluttering up the place has encouraged me to buy more books, read more books, and try different authors.

2. No need to make any decisions about what books to take when going on a trip anywhere (although I take one of my very few remaining paperbacks as a back up for when the Kobo decides to be a dick - or my wee Chromebook with the Kindle app on it).

3. Lit up screen is nice for reading in bed and soporifically just putting the book down to go to sleep.

P.S.Going back and forth to pages throughout a book is obviously tedious bollox, I wouldn't use it for anything other than novels.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Steve R on September 15, 2021, 09:26:02 pm
As per other thread, for me reading preference goes approx: 
Real Book>Kindle>>laptop>phone

If funds are tight, refurbed or good con used 3rd or 4th gen kindles are available on eBay for sub £20.  Worth noting there're a lot(!) of legally free books available once you've got an e-reader eg. project gutenberg and a lot of illegally free books if you're of low moral fibre* and familiar with torrenting.

*can always pay author direct if you liked it on patreon or whatever or if they're dead they probably don't care

On the 'digital' feel thing.  Must admit I often find it frustrating, for non-fiction at least, that once I have a book in a couple of Mb worth of digital format the highest bandwidth way to get it from there into my head is to spend hours actually reading it.  Feels like a biological bottleneck.   Apart from occasionally having that initial experience, feels the same as a normal book really.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: moose on September 15, 2021, 09:58:00 pm
I'm a Luddite when it comes to books (see the TobyD thread on serialised novels) but I'm tempted to buy a Kindle for travel purposes.  I've used a friend's Kindle and it felt a lot less harsh than using a phone or PC monitor.  I'd prefer to read a paperback if possible, but I have a lot of bulky and unread hardbacks that are just too big and heavy to take on holiday or pack with my climbing gear (I like to read at crags, to meter out my rests).
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: cheque on September 15, 2021, 10:15:08 pm
If you get a non-Kindle you can get books from your public library on it. If you get a Kindle you can’t.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Yossarian on September 15, 2021, 10:16:35 pm
I argued with various family members and friends re Kindles for a couple of years - ooh I love real books and turning pages, etc. Bought a Paperwhite about 3 years ago. Total game changer. Read more consistently, found more times / opportunities to read because carrying a small plastic thing is far easier than remembering to stick a book in your bag. Better to read in bed than a proper book as you don't need a light. Great if you have multipole books on the go. The Kindle OS is a bit weird / shit but that doesn't really detract from the reading experience. Ditto trying to flick back a chunk in a book. But the positives outweigh the advantages by so much that it really doesn't matter.

Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: seankenny on September 15, 2021, 10:53:18 pm
I’m a big fan of mine for all the same reasons as everyone else. Still buy and read paper books and though I bought the kindle for long trips I often use it at home too.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Duma on September 15, 2021, 10:56:13 pm
So what are the Kindle alternatives? There must be some by now?
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Oldmanmatt on September 15, 2021, 11:20:17 pm
I read almost constantly.
I have mountains of text books and reference books, papers and studies as well as a large collection of fiction and I carry it everywhere.
Masses of PDFs as well as books.

I use iBooks, on my iPad.

Very easy to bookmark, remembers where you were in any of your “current” reading and jumping between books/papers is very simple. Allows easy flicking backwards and forwards between footnotes and text body. You can import almost any PDF into iBooks and it’s indexed etc automatically. And I share my library with the whole family.
I also have the Kindle app, for the odd book etc thats not available on iBooks, though I’ve hardly ever used it.
Also, I like being able to switch the “paper” and “print” depending on the ambient light. At night I can read with sepia print on a black screen, so I don’t disturb Mrs OMM by turning a light on and there are various other settings for different conditions.

I like that my iPhone is updated with my progress/reading list and I can just carry on reading on my phone (when I arrive 10 min early to collect the kids from club xyz etc, or waiting at the dentist, or in a bivi bag listening to the rain).

I know Apple gets some shit, but it is a pleasure to use. I mean I can down load a couple of movies and at least a season of a tv show, for a trip too.
iPad pro, 256GB
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: remus on September 16, 2021, 04:41:32 am
Just to echo what everyone has already said, I'm a big fan of my kindle voyage and would highly recommend it.

Feeding the Amazon machine can feel a bit soulless though, and being able to buy a book whenever you want Is pretty addictive.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Fiend on September 16, 2021, 09:13:44 am
So what are the Kindle alternatives? There must be some by now?
See my post! Kobo (https://uk.kobobooks.com/collections/ereaders?utm_source=Kobo&utm_medium=eReadersApps&utm_campaign=eReadersApps) (which was originally the flagship of either Waterstones or WHSmiths??). If they've fixed the bugginess they might be worth a look (mine is 8 years old).
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: SA Chris on September 16, 2021, 09:40:24 am
If you get a non-Kindle you can get books from your public library on it. If you get a Kindle you can’t.

This is the bit that winds me up about the newer ones; being tied into Amazon. I've still got an ancient one and can (or could - only use it when travelling!) add books from numerous sources.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Johnny Brown on September 16, 2021, 11:43:43 am
We've had one kicking around the house for years. The screen is better than the ipad and it works ok but I don't think either of us have managed to read a book on it. I have a few books on the ipad, none of which I've managed to read properly and I did try to read a novel on my phone but I just forget it's on there. OTOH we have a serious book storage problem so should probably revisit but I don't read novels and often return to stuff where flicking through for reference is hard to replace. Will probably buy a bigger house instead.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: SA Chris on September 16, 2021, 11:55:50 am
IKEA can help with storage. Maybe time for a UKB book exchange / give away? We have boxes full in the loft.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: largeruk on September 16, 2021, 12:24:02 pm
Thanks everyone who's responded so far with your thoughts, gripes and experiences. Much food for thought. Think I'm def. going to give an e-book reader a try if I can find something suitable and cheap enough.

Here's where I'm up to so far:-
 - From ltd. research so far it seems a Paperwhite might be the 'best' version of Kindle to go for in terms of look, feel, user experience. Do Kindle owners agree or is there not really m uch difference between model versions?
 - If I was to sully my soul with an (albeit secondhand) Kindle purchase, I'd rather not be locked into the Bezos multiverse so would prefer a model that allowed me to load books from non-Amazon sources. Any ideas on which models allowed this before the whole thing got locked?
 - What are the realistic e-book reader alternatives to a Kindle? I'm not part of the Apple ecosystem so an iPad is not an option, especially financially.

@SA Chris I like the idea of a UKB bookcycling setup. I tend to give mine to charity shops (and buy from them too) but still have way too many books so would be happy to participate if it makes sense to trial something via UKB. Thread split for ideas/interest? 
 
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: jwi on September 16, 2021, 12:39:12 pm
I haven't read everyone's replies yet so sorry if I am reiterating points made

Anyway, I had three or four kindles before giving up on them due to their extremely low build quality. I also found the screen much too small.

A few years ago I bought a kobo instead, which has much larger screen for the money, and incomparable better build quality.

Since I am a rootless cosmopolitan, I can no longer justify buying books as I know that I will move somewhere else in a few years anyway. (My father is very much the opposite, so I have the few hundred books I have not managed to sell, give away or part from in storage back home on the farm). I will only buy a book in paper format if it is absolutely impossible to get an electronic copy (or even a library scan).
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Duma on September 16, 2021, 12:50:24 pm
Which kobo do you have jwi?
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: SA Chris on September 16, 2021, 01:02:15 pm

@SA Chris I like the idea of a UKB bookcycling setup. I tend to give mine to charity shops (and buy from them too) but still have way too many books so would be happy to participate if it makes sense to trial something via UKB. Thread split for ideas/interest?

Can do?
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Yossarian on September 16, 2021, 01:22:55 pm
- If I was to sully my soul with an (albeit secondhand) Kindle purchase, I'd rather not be locked into the Bezos multiverse so would prefer a model that allowed me to load books from non-Amazon sources. Any ideas on which models allowed this before the whole thing got locked?


I don't think this is the case, is it? The tech specs of the current Paperwhite mentions it works with unprotected MOBI files, as well as PDFs, etc. You can put whatever you want on it with something like Calibre  https://calibre-ebook.com (https://calibre-ebook.com)
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: jwi on September 16, 2021, 03:15:49 pm
Which kobo do you have jwi?

Kobo Aura One with a  7.8” screen. I do not think they sell them anymore unfortunately.

I feel that 8 inches is basically the minimum usable size. I would look for a used Aura One or splurge on a Kobo Elipsa with a 10.3" screen if I lost mine tomorrow. I would never accept smaller screen than what I have. 7 inch is useless and 6 inch is a joke.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Durbs on September 16, 2021, 04:15:51 pm
As nearly everyone says... They're fantastic, with a few caveats; never going to buy an e-cooking book, or travel guide - the lack of ability to skim through pages, or flick back and forth make this unworkable.

I've got a Paperwhite, 3rd, maybe 4th edition - love it. The backlight is comfortable to read in near-darkness without disturbing the otherhalf. I don't see the need for waterproofing, either don't read on a lilo in the sea/pool, or if reading in the bath, don't nod off.

I am an Amazon whore though - the individual convenience : global disaster ratio is too heavily skewed at good customer service (sorry...).
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: Duma on September 16, 2021, 08:29:39 pm
Do others agree with jwi on the size thing? Gets a bit out of budget over 7"
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: remus on September 16, 2021, 08:43:06 pm
Do others agree with jwi on the size thing? Gets a bit out of budget over 7"

Depends what you're doing I guess but I find day to day reading on a 6" screen fine.
Title: Re: Kindle conundrum
Post by: chris j on September 16, 2021, 10:32:01 pm
Do others agree with jwi on the size thing? Gets a bit out of budget over 7"

No, not really. I've been using a Kobo glo for years, with a Nook  and a Sony (both discontinued) before that since ~2010. For me the 6" screen has been fine and I prefer the lighter weight for holding in one hand when reading lying down (less pain when I fall asleep and drop it on my face...).
I went with the Sony originally as a conscientious objector to the Amazon ecosystem, though Rakuten/Kobo has hoovered up most of the non-amazon ebook sellers over the years so there isn't much of a difference anymore. Conversely my wife has always been kindle. We both do 99% of our reading (fiction) on the ebooks now. Cookbooks and reading for the children are all on paper though.


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