UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => equipment => Topic started by: Sarnian on October 18, 2016, 01:27:59 pm
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Hi, I'm looking to replace my mini-send downgrade knee pad that I left at Longridge :wall: I have a five-ten one already but my legs are annoyingly short so it doesn't fit properly and I like having a choice of rubber thickness.
Has anyone seen or tried these ones from Bulgaria? http://goclimbing.ida.gd/en/
Is there any other options out there other than the rock and resole ones.
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I just got the new Send pad, the Strap-On Slim which is a HUGE upgrade from the downgrader.
Having used many kneepads over the years, this is the first one that beats my homemade ones for basic kneebaring.
If you are going to be using more than one or two per route, just spend the dollars for a Rock&Resole pad, or make one yourself for just a few dollars less and the smug satisfaction of sending shit with your own kit..
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oh, they've made one with thinner rubber! at last.
how tall are you and what size did you buy?
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5 foot 9
i bought the mini, in my experience most kneebars are quite close to the patella, so there is no need for the bigger size.
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Could do with buying a pad for Mecca and have just been looking at costs for these inc. international shipping.
Send SLIM mini: $107.50
Rock n Resole: $60
Five Ten: £40
Is the Send pad really that much better than the R n R or FiveTen?
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No
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I have made quite a few pads for friends over the years. I'm not sure what knee supports are available and prices in the UK, but i have had the best luck the the McDavid 401r (http://www.mcdavidusa.com/knee-sleeve)
To get pretty good rubber, go to a local tire shop and ask for a tube that you can cut up, a slightly thicker tube works better . Usually the cost is $0
Get an all purpose adhesive that can bond two different materials. $6ish
Cut out an appropriate piece of rubber (i find that full width and 2/3-3/4 height of neoprene works the best) and clean thoroughly. Usually the inner part of the tube has better texture, so it will be the outer part of the finished pad (touches rock).
Spread glue liberally on both the pad and rubber.
Allow to dry for 24 hours. I place a large stack of books on top of the pad/rubber to help the glue bond better.
Trim any edges that arent glued down.
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Extra step i like to do....
Stitch the outside of the pad/rubber. Initially i used braided fishing line, a beefy needle and needle nose pliers. I now have a speedy stitcher (http://www.speedystitcher.com/#the-basics)and it works wonders.
total cost is usually about $20 and an hour or so of labor. they dont fit or look quite as nice as a R&R pad, but works just as good
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No
That's comprehensive enough for me. Fancy selling me your Send pad for £40 then?
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No
And the new ones?
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Any thoughts on the rock n resole/send pads for people with thick thighs? I've found the 5.10 pad pretty log because it slides of my triangular thighs in the midst of any serious knee barring efforts. Send pads look a bit more adjustable though?
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The send pad is far superior in every way to the 510 pad.
The fit is more adjustable, the neoprene is more comfortable on the skin and stickier so it doesn't slide around as much and i think that the rubber is stickier.
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I used to have the thicker send mini-pad, and I found there was some knee bars that I could only do with that one and some only with the five ten one. I have small legs and I wrote off being able to do Mecca when I first tried it with the send pad, but it turned out to be doable with the five ten one. The difference was probably mostly due the thickness of the rubber, so I'd bet the new thinner send pad is amazing.
I didn't want to fork out for another send one so I've ordered a Perseus pad from the goclimbing link I posted. I'll let you know how I get on with it when it arrives.
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those bulgarian pads fall apart in like 5mins
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No
That's comprehensive enough for me. Fancy selling me your Send pad for £40 then?
No I need two pads. Haven't tried the new send but find the rubber on the old one a tad thick. Sometimes that's a good thing but I use my 5.10 for the majority of kneebars despite its downsides. Seen plenty of pictures of people on Mecca with the 5.10 (and it's pretty cheap).
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those bulgarian pads fall apart in like 5mins
Ahhhh annoying! where were you at the start of this thread?
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Is the Send pad really that much better than the R n R or FiveTen?
Surely there are enough people are on Mecca and variants thereof that have these pads you can try?
The Five Ten didn't fit me well. The send mini does but the rubber is thick. If you buy a rock and resole pad you'll be gluing/taping it in place.
Sadly I won't be passing back through the RRG climbing shop or I'd have been happy to pick you one up.
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those bulgarian pads fall apart in like 5mins
You bastard, you recommended me one! ;)
I've got the http://goclimbing.ida.gd/knee-bar-pad/knee-bar-pad-go-climbing-danae-model/ (http://goclimbing.ida.gd/knee-bar-pad/knee-bar-pad-go-climbing-danae-model/) Mine's not fallen apart yet, but I've not used it a huge amount. In terms of fit i'd recommend one, but didn't know about durability issues like ThreeNine's just mentioned.
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5.10 pads - they're fine, but they have a habit of sliding a bit unless taped on and can be quite sore on the back of your knee
Send pads (standard, full sized - I've not used the 'slim' or 'mini' ones) - Thick, feel a bit cumbersome but much less likely to slip down your leg than the 5.10 in my experience. Definitely the best pad I've ever used for certain knees. Generally do well on large, frictiony stuff like Mecca/Parisella's but also work well on painful knees and often on larger spikes. Tricky to wear that low down so not ideal on scums near the kneecap.
Rock n Resole - By far the most comfortable option, light and quite unobtrusive. Easy to wear them low for times when the kneebar is only near the kneecap. The downside is that you need to tape them on as they have no straps (ideally use Mueller spray too, either Stickum or Tuffner pre-tape spray I don't actually know the difference between those two).
Tape seems like a faff but actually it's no big deal, although you need to take the pain of ripping it off your leg or shave your thigh. You can tape over trousers too though I don't think it's as good. In Rifle I was spraying/taping 2-3 times per day most days and you just get used to it. If you use the spray there's a remover which is useful as otherwise you end up with a dirty/sticky leg and a shower doesn't get rid of it.
In my experience knees can be a bit like heels on different shoes when they get harder - it's not always trivial to predict which type will work best . Sometimes the thicker, less malleable Send pad is amazing and sometimes the thinner, softer RnR pad works better as it moulds into the hold better. On hard stuff I think you just have to try the different options out so it's useful to have a variety. Personally if I were only to own one then it would be the Send.
The Mecca knee is huge so if you're only worried about that then it doesn't really matter what pad you use, anything should let you get no hands.
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The Mecca knee is huge so if you're only worried about that then it doesn't really matter what pad you use, anything should let you get no hands.
And a 8b tick :lol:
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Don't be a downgrader. Heard it's not cool.
I still use and love my upskills knee pads made by Lee Cujes in Australia, never had a problem with them but I'm wondering if he stopped making them . If this is the case it's a shame.
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Means you're brave and humble J. Overgradings better for sponsorship deals.
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Dare I say a pair of carhartt double fronts, taped tight below the knee.. :tumble: too tight to fork out for rubber just tried to improve my tech, and I'm not much of a scummer anyways.
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That home made one of dave Graham's in dosage 4 always looked good to me.
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The Mecca knee is huge so if you're only worried about that then it doesn't really matter what pad you use, anything should let you get no hands.
And a 8b tick :lol:
You sandbagging twat. Just getting to the groove on Mecca is harder than doing the Oak. So that makes Oak 8a+. (Mussel Beach 7c).
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The Oak was 8a+! Ask Jens about grade inflation. Where's the troll emoji
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Fuck sake! Madness :no:
Ondra said 8b for the Oak when he onsighted it. I'll take his word for it.
Trolling cunt :chair:
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I've not been on the route, but my ouija board tells me that the absorption all Shark's blood, sweat, and tears has given the Oak eerie voodoo powers; for those the rock deems unworthy, the grade is infinite. Shark should abandon all that training and dieting nonsense and hire a warlock; his problems are nothing sacrificing a goat or two won't solve.
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Ondra said 8b for the Oak when he onsighted it. I'll take his word
Because someone operating way below max is best poised to give objective grade related feedback? :devangel:
Since the photo of Mawson holding a protein shake in that groove it's always tickled me that a kneebar (or two) in a power endurance route makes it anything but easier (no matter how minute).
I can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...
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I've not been on the route, but my ouija board tells me that the absorption all Shark's blood, sweat, and tears has given the Oak eerie voodoo powers; for those the rock deems unworthy, the grade is infinite. Shark should abandon all that training and dieting nonsense and hire a warlock; his problems are nothing sacrificing a goat or two won't solve.
Ah... now it all makes sense. Last time I was bouldering with Shark he muttered something about needing a piss - disappeared for 5 min in to the undergrowth - and came back with a still twitching dead squirrel between his teeth. He said it was for later and I thought nothing more of it. As you do.
Part of some Malham based witches ritual no doubt..
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Ondra said 8b for the Oak when he onsighted it. I'll take his word
Because someone operating way below max is best poised to give objective grade related feedback? :devangel:
Since the photo of Mawson holding a protein shake in that groove it's always tickled me that a kneebar (or two) in a power endurance route makes it anything but easier (no matter how minute).
I can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...
Well alright, every person who's ticked the routes on 8anu then.
I know Shark brought up the topic of Mecca's grade straight after it's first female ascent (great timing there Shark!) but nobody, except for a serial downgrader, seriously thinks Mecca is 8b or Oak 8a+. Do they?
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Shark's timing was stunning.
They're just routes that often pop up in discussion (add Bat Route to that list too), it doesn't necessarily mean they're all ripe for a downgrade but personally, they wouldn't be routes I'd chase in order to solely climb a number as it just seems a likely tactic for future disappointment/uncertainty.
Anyway most of this is way off knees and I'm re-typing this over and over trying not to piss on someone's chips as ultimately I don't really care. Is nothing happening in Dovedale?
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I heard there were no more small mammals left in Dovedale as they'd all been used in sacrifices....
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I can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...
It's funny that Subculture has that rep. For one reason or another, I've failed on Subculture about half a dozen times, last time falling off the 'easy' bit at the top three times in a row! It's soft, but it aint 7c+ IMO.
As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar. But then Mawson reckons it's just about 8b+, so I'd take that as he is fairly stern when it comes to grading.
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Thing with Mecca is it was obviously a hell of a lot harder pre rubber pads. The last boulder problem was a heartbreaker when pumped stupid whereas it seems now if you can get to the groove it's just a matter of time. Someone get Sharples a kneepad for Christmas. I have no opinion on the grade as I've only been on it once. Like the look of that kneebar though :-*
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I can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...
As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar.
I know one too. Wonder if it's the same person... Not too many 9a climbers about.
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It's funny that Subculture has that rep. For one reason or another, I've failed on Subculture about half a dozen times, last time falling off the 'easy' bit at the top three times in a row! It's soft, but it aint 7c+ IMO.
As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar. But then Mawson reckons it's just about 8b+, so I'd take that as he is fairly stern when it comes to grading.
But going by Paul's logic a 9a climber isn't able to accurately determine the grade of a route well below his limit. So, can they or can't they?
Shark's timing was stunning.
They're just routes that often pop up in discussion (add Bat Route to that list too), it doesn't necessarily mean they're all ripe for a downgrade but personally, they wouldn't be routes I'd chase in order to solely climb a number as it just seems a likely tactic for future disappointment/uncertainty.
Anyway most of this is way off knees and I'm re-typing this over and over trying not to piss on someone's chips as ultimately I don't really care. Is nothing happening in Dovedale?
It's (mildly) interesting this . I'm definitely trying Mecca so I can say I've climbed 8b+. As well as it being a fuck-off great route. That's what people do and there shouldn't be any questioning of that desire in climbing really. I also climb because I love climbing. Mecca's a good choice because it ticks both boxes - satisfy my desire to climb a grade harder, and being a great route.
As for not choosing Mecca as a first 8b+ because it might be downgraded, I don't see your logic? It won't be - unless something drastically changes - because it's 8b+ in its current state. Unless a couple of good holds appear. And even then whoever climbed it before would have still climbed the level of 8b+.
Of course once you've done one hopefully you can consolidate.
Anyway, heelspurs is where it's at.
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I can remember speaking to someone straight after my first F8a (subculture) who rapidly pointed out it's slightly questioned grade. It hurt a bit...
It's funny that Subculture has that rep. For one reason or another, I've failed on Subculture about half a dozen times, last time falling off the 'easy' bit at the top three times in a row! It's soft, but it aint 7c+ IMO.
As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar. But then Mawson reckons it's just about 8b+, so I'd take that as he is fairly stern when it comes to grading.
I thought subculture was the hardest of the 8as i've done at kilnsey.
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I'll clarify when I'm near a keyboard.
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Mecca is the most popular route of the grade in the country. As a result, there is a lot more beta around and therefore that makes it more doable. Which is not quite the same as making it easier, and therefore ripe for a downgrade. There's no beta more powerful than knowing that your mate who is worse than you has done it.
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Mecca is 8b.
The Oak is 8a+
Rainshadow is 8c+
Buerre Marga is 8a.
there we are. we can talk about knees again now.
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Mecca is the most popular route of the grade in the country. As a result, there is a lot more beta around and therefore that makes it more doable.
There's also a no-hands rest half way up.
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Mecca was middle/low power endurance 8b+ pre kneebar. Having spent three seasons trying it pre kneebar (and not being a 9a climber) and having since tried out the kneebar (its good once you have the knack) - I have zero doubt that it is a MUCH easier prospect these days. The current grade is only held together by collective wishfull thinking and hubris. Seriously Pete I thought you were above that sort of self delusion :fishing:.
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Well hopefully I am. *I* think I am.
First of all, did you do it Bonjoy?
Second, See Stu's comment. If Mecca is 8b then Oak is 8a+, etc. etc. etc. You'd have to downgrade a whole load of routes - I imagine, not being peak-based I don't know the details - to keep it sensible. If it *is* 8b then it's a fucking nails one! And presumably Mecca Extension and Haj are 8b+, and Kabba 8c? Make it Funky 8b+?
As I said it's 8b (and harder than The Oak) just to get to the groove. A long font 7c/+ to there. Then a font 7a+ to finish, following a rest the utility of which seems to differ between people's ability to kneebar/leg length but it isn't like hanging from a jug and standing on a big foothold.
I dunno, 8b+ seems fair but I'm no expert. But then the experts (Ondra being one) are dismissed as supposedly 'too good' to be able to know (regarding Oak being 8b).... unless you're one of the experts we like - in which case they know. Confusing and conflicting logic at work.
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Can't we just ask Jens? He'd know.
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No I didn't. Like you, a fair part of my motivation was the grade...
The Oak was given 8a+ when I did it. At the time I thought it was harder than Magnetic which I did the same season and for me the grades could have been reversed. All of which proves nothing.
I havent been on any of Meccas extensions. I imagine the kneebar makes a big difference to Kabba but not the others due to the rest on the flake. 2 + 2 rarely makes 4 when it comes to link ups anyway.
Its all just opinions but I do think grades, especially Mecca's are hostage to the vested interests of folk defending their most hard won prizes.
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True enough. And it's possible they're hard-enough won to warrant the number given.
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And presumably Mecca Extension 8b+?
As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar.
Maybe it's this 9a climber, he doesn't sound totally convinced by 8c for the Extension.
https://twitter.com/moonclimbing/status/390112529596166145
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I dunno, 8b+ seems fair but I'm no expert. But then the experts (Ondra being one) are dismissed as supposedly 'too good' to be able to know (regarding Oak being 8b).... unless you're one of the experts we like - in which case they know. Confusing and conflicting logic at work.
My logic is that someone onsighting or repointing well below their max (critically in this case OS max) isn't the best person to give objective feedback on the difference between a letter and a plus. Seriously, how far do you trust your own judgement with this? Your ability to have the most efficient sequence?
Only this week both Barrows and I were struggling to differentiate between a 12b and a 12d, both thinking the b was as hard as the d. Maybe it was? Conditions weren't good etc.so who knows? That said neither of us are Ondrawad and have that wealth of experience.
These differences are compounded by lack of familiarity with the area and even the country although you're more likely to get something that is a 'best fit' for the differences between countries etc. from as traveling Wad.
It might be daft but I'd trust a range of UK 8a+/8b redpointers to contextualise a route of that grade in line with the local routes which makes sense.
It's funny that Subculture has that rep. For one reason or another, I've failed on Subculture about half a dozen times, last time falling off the 'easy' bit at the top three times in a row! It's soft, but it aint 7c+ IMO.
As for Mecca, I know a certain 9a climber who said to me he thinks it's 8b now with the knee bar. But then Mawson reckons it's just about 8b+, so I'd take that as he is fairly stern when it comes to grading.
But going by Paul's logic a 9a climber isn't able to accurately determine the grade of a route well below his limit. So, can they or can't they?
Shark's timing was stunning.
They're just routes that often pop up in discussion (add Bat Route to that list too), it doesn't necessarily mean they're all ripe for a downgrade but personally, they wouldn't be routes I'd chase in order to solely climb a number as it just seems a likely tactic for future disappointment/uncertainty.
Anyway most of this is way off knees and I'm re-typing this over and over trying not to piss on someone's chips as ultimately I don't really care. Is nothing happening in Dovedale?
It's (mildly) interesting this . I'm definitely trying Mecca so I can say I've climbed 8b+. As well as it being a fuck-off great route. That's what people do and there shouldn't be any questioning of that desire in climbing really. I also climb because I love climbing. Mecca's a good choice because it ticks both boxes - satisfy my desire to climb a grade harder, and being a great route.
As for not choosing Mecca as a first 8b+ because it might be downgraded, I don't see your logic? It won't be - unless something drastically changes - because it's 8b+ in its current state. Unless a couple of good holds appear. And even then whoever climbed it before would have still climbed the level of 8b+.
Just replace holds in that paragraph with knees and that's the sticking point for me if solely looking to climb a grade. On your other point I'll concede I'm a bit off in that it's entirely wise to pick something 'low hanging', consolidate and continue. I'd always thought of it more as a sole trophy in a cabinet, won on a technicality, which is maybe just my cynicism at work (although see the Dovedale/ State of threads).
I've just returned from the states and my mind is a bit foggy, apologies if the above is nonsensical!
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Well, I'm an 8a - b redpointer, as are most people sessioning Mecca. And to me it feels every bit 8b+.
And, cynical? - Duh yes! Just a bit! I mean take your mindset and apply it 3 grades higher and Ben Moon has one 'sole' 9a in his 'trophy cabinet' (or two depending who you listen to). Likewise Stu - a sole 9a in his 'trophy cabinet'. Same for Jordan, Ryan etc. You could say the same about loads of people at all sorts of ability levels from 9a+ down to 8a.
So why single out 8b+ climbers on Mecca? I'd hazard the suggestion: 'because it's close to *your* ability level'. And that smacks of... something..
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Well, I'm an 8a - b redpointer, as are most people sessioning Mecca. And to me it feels every bit 8b+.
You missed this bit:
It might be daft but I'd trust a range of UK 8a+/8b redpointers to contextualise a route of that grade in line with the local routes
So, in relation to PUTP (F8a+, for your bouldery analogy)? Monsterosity (F8b, power endurance)? You're saying it's harder than Dev Arms (F8a++) to the groove? I'm not expecting answers here I just think if one route isn't contextualized in it's locality then it makes little sense, and wholesale re-grading (or grade-inflation) isn't a workable solution.
So why single out 8b+ climbers on Mecca? I'd hazard the suggestion: 'because it's close to *your* ability level'. And that smacks of... something..
I'm not singling out anybody, it just happens to be a thread about kneepads, specifically for Mecca, so it kinda popped up. If you want to go back in time there was a very similar debate with regards to Ben's Roof; my opinions on holiday grades, new beta on routes/problems etc. haven't changed and can be seen in loads of places (I'm sure plenty of forum members can attest to that, even if they don't agree with my opinions). Also, as you can see by the above, it's not just something I struggle to get my head around.
One thing it definitely smacks of is me not learning when to keep my own opinions to myself and perhaps being more grade bothered (I'll use bothered rather than focused) than I care to admit; social media irks me with this where people (and sometimes brands) willfully manipulate things for advertising.
Its all just opinions
It's always going to boil down to the above, so I'm going to stop bickering. Which pad are you buying?
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It's good to discuss, doesn't come across as bickering.
PUTP - a short font 7c+. 12 moves in total of climbing. A 6 move font 7c+. With the boulder problem coming right after leaving the ground. 60 seconds in total of climbing to the chains with the top moves easy.
Mecca - a long font 7c/+. Around 27 moves in total. A 16 move font 7c/+ to get into the groove. Then a kneebar. Then a 4/5 move font 7a+ at the top after a good deal of pumpy hard climbing. 2 minutes of climbing plus a bit for the kneebar.
It isn't a direct comparison from what I can tell. Having not tried the moves on PUTP someone more well versed than me in both routes can add more.
Also I'd question why you'd place so much emphasis on local routes.
There's no 'good' reason why the peak would be graded differently to Yorkshire to n.Wales to Scotland, South coast etc. It's all just moving over rock, usually limestone. There's nothing special about raven tor that can't be said of somewhere else in the world. Of course, I'm not stupid and I know local grading exists - usually tied up with historical personalities, scene and peer group pressure. But really, would you place emphasis on local routes over and above national benchmarks if you wanted an international grading scale to have meaning beyond Derbyshire?
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I think we lost Stu some time ago :tumble:
Also I'd question why you'd place so much emphasis on local routes.
There's no 'good' reason why the peak would be graded differently to Yorkshire to n.Wales to Scotland, South coast etc. It's all just moving over rock, usually limestone. There's nothing special about raven tor that can't be said of somewhere else in the world. Of course, I'm not stupid and I know local grading exists - usually tied up with historical personalities, scene and peer group pressure. But really, would you place emphasis on local routes over and above national benchmarks if you wanted an international grading scale to have meaning beyond Derbyshire?
Good reason or not grading varies (as you've noted) between, countries, counties and even crags, unfortunately that's what we've got. Without the wholesale re-grading (and subsequent re-writing of history), that's not something that you can easily change and normalising 'benchmark routes' (on a national scale) leaves things meaningless at a crag level (which I don't think is a better scenario). Accepting areas as old-skool or soft is a lesser evil (in my mind at least).
If you took a representative climber from the RRG and put them on Mecca I think you'd get a very different view on it's difficulty (as an extreme example). Trying to normalise between Yorkshire and Derbyshire is hard enough and reason why I don't feel using the Oak is a great defense.
I think it's unfair to tie it to personalities too, for me at least it's significant routes (and these are around the world).
So really, which pad are you buying, the 'downgrader'? :tease:
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I don't think I've been to a major crag in France (and very few in Spain) without a decent spread of routes that are ridiculously hard and astoundingly soft for their grade. Everyone knows which route is which, and laughs behind the back of visitors who romps up the soft touches and loudly declare the crag to be soft.
(The Mini Strap-On from Send climbing.)
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:agree: and then these ascents, registered on 8a.nu become next week's visitor's ticklist. And so it goes.
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How disturbing is it to realise we have a three page, 55 reply, thread; about "Strap-ons"...?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Guys, seriously, forget it. People don't want accurate grades, they want the grades that they know and feel comfortable with. Look at how this thread went:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,26641.0.html
And that was just for the relatively new stuff where the scrittle is now gone and the grade is 2 or more off. It's like Brexiters. There's more people out there than you think who are not only happy to let an incorrect grade stand, but are happy to take it and pop it in their videos and advertise it as such (don't particularly want to name names there but there's plenty of it around).
Caveat: I've got no knowledge of, or interest in, Mecca and it's grade, and the comments above are not personally about those people posting on this thread about Mecca - it's more a general principle of the acceptance of shit grades.
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I'm fighting for the mecca being 8b+ team. I think the kneebar is not the total rest that people make it out to be. I've seen an 8c+ climber on it who's pretty handy at kneebars and he can really only shake out for a few breaths, which is my experience on it too. It's more the foot sliding than the kneebar itself. Obviously it's a lot easier with the kneebar but to me, I think it must have been a nails 8b+/8c without it, not 8b with it.
If it helps I've done 1 8b, 1 8b+ and PUTP. (Disclaimer, I'm a midget so my opinion means nothing)
My pad from Bulgaria arrived, I've only been able to test it on a few indoor holds so not really a fair test. I ordered the Perseus pad which is 19cm^2 with the rubber being 14cm wide by 16cm. So this is actually a lot smaller than the others available although I like the size and find it fits me very well. This is sold as a smaller model, so the others I imagine are more similar to the five ten ones. She also offered to do a custom size in only 7 days, which is pretty cool. So far it looks well made.
Pro's - The first thing I noticed is the madrock rubber feels a lot stickier than the five ten/sender. I asked for a similar size patch of rubber from feet first to make my own and it was going to cost £28. So maybe the other brands use a cheaper rubber, or maybe it doesn't make any difference, but I will take any placebo/ marginal gains going so I'm counting this as a pro. It's the coolest looking pad I've come across. The rubber is very thin, this will be good for some stuff, terrible for others.
Con's - It has a similar enclosure fitting to the five-ten pads, which seems like it will cut into the back of the leg just as bad when wearing it near the knee. (The other models have a different style fitting) The straps are quick release buckles which would be good for taking it off on the other models but not this one, and it's hard to cynch them up tight. The inner fabric is a bit like the inside of the jumper, so it feels luxurious but not very sticky and I find the pad slides down easily.
It cost 43 euros plus 7 euros delivery. Now after discovering the price of rubber I'm counting this as a bargain.
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That's not the price of rubber. Torquil sold me a piece for £5
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Oh that's good to know, I sent him an email today because I was still want to have a go at making one.
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reading quite a bit of 5.10 pad hate on here, so, anyone selling one?
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reading quite a bit of 5.10 pad hate on here, so, anyone selling one?
Think I'm the only one who rates them.
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I got a Send Downgrader from the States and sold it almost immediately, having found it way to clumpy and sitting half way up my thigh. I prefer the 5.10 pad, but when someone actually designs a kneepad (i.e. not a thigh pad) then I'll buy one. Maybe it's my massive tree trunk thighs/gigantic knees, but I tend to use my knee on most kneebars. The kneepads I've tried all sit on the thigh. I have a neoprene knee support which I generally use over the 5.10 pad, despite it having nay rubber on it.
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reading quite a bit of 5.10 pad hate on here, so, anyone selling one?
Ditto - I'm looking for one...
Maybe when Shark gives up climbing limestone he can sell us each one?
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TB - the Rock n Resole pads are the ones which are easiest to wear low. I really don't think that 95% of knees require this though, off the top of my head I can barely think of a single kneebar in the UK where I've really struggled with wearing the pad low enough.. anyone got any examples? Yesterday I did a route with 6 knees, some of which were the crux of the route, and I used a Send pad as the slightly firmer/thicker rubber worked better than the softer RnR ones. Wearing it low enough wasn't an issue.
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I've got the original Send climbing pad, and have just received the new Slim.
So that's
- 4.2mm vs 3.0mm rubber.
- 3.8mm vs 2.8mm neoprene.
I had a large (mistake) in the original, so bough the mini slim version.
They are a world apart.
I'd suggest anyone thinking of buying a new pad to try and find someone with a Send Slim, before making a decision (sorry, i'm not in sheffield).
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This is all getting a bit S & M with folk talking about how low slung they wear their rubber aids.
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Over the weekend I decided to 'rubber up' my Huesca thigh support with sections of old inner tube (courtesy of Peewee). It's worked really well (and was used successfully by my better half yesterday).
However, if anyone else is going down the DIY route can I suggest you glue the rubber onto the pad in a stretched position (i.e. on your leg, probably with a barrier of some sort against the glue!). The combination of the neoprene and rubber means that I'm going to seriously struggle to get it on.
Shoe goo seems to have worked well for bonding the rubber to the neoprene but less well rubber to rubber. I think I'll add a round of stitching to give some extra protection.
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Barge cement worked well on my home-made pad - hard to get hold of cheaply though (I think it's American - possibly not licenced for sale in Europe).
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(http://www.internationaljock.com/v3/prld.xlg?partno=45744&width=386&view=img1)
I'm really liking the look of this new knee bar / arm bar combo pack...
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He looks a bit sweaty though...
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I'm thinking of getting a knee pad.
I used one once on Lizard King and it made a small difference in beta that made all the difference in sending. I'm pretty crap at using them, but every now and then it would be useful to have a pad in the bag.
Was considering the Send mini slim as I like the idea of a low profile design and reckon I won't need a full on thigh of rubber. Any thoughts? Or is it a try before you buy?
Cheers
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Wow just read this thread for the first time and it went majorly off piste.
Toying with getting a Send pad and wasnt sure which version though I did borrow the Large just recently which is a substantial unit on first acquaintance though got used to it quickly so tempted to get that one though now see there is a thinner version of both Large and Mini.
Too much choice.
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I've got the three strap thin rubber one. Personally Id go for the two strap thin rubber one, the three strap seems to cover most of my thigh and I don't think I've ever used the top half of it. The thin rubber one is already pretty thick (compared to a 5.10 pad) so unless you make a habit of knee barring nasty little spikes the thick one seems excessive.
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Thanks Remus
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Best to have an arsenal... slip-ons for wearing really low (when the straps on Sends can be annoying) and onsights, then the bigger Sends for most hard (but not super low) knees IMO. I've never bothered with a thin Send on the basis that I have my slip-ons for thin ones; mini (2 strap) Sends I don't think stay put as well but that may depend on leg size/shape
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Seems like they’re all sold out of larger versions at Foundry
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Best to have an arsenal... slip-ons for wearing really low (when the straps on Sends can be annoying) and onsights, then the bigger Sends for most hard (but not super low) knees IMO. I've never bothered with a thin Send on the basis that I have my slip-ons for thin ones; mini (2 strap) Sends I don't think stay put as well but that may depend on leg size/shape
You’re a kinky fucker.
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You’re a kinky fucker.
Quite. To summarize: big is best when things get hard. Don't forget that shaved always wins, and if in doubt, you can never use too much duct-tape to hold the bugger down...
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So I told my gf, who climbs a bit, that I was getting a knee pad and she just said "isn't that cheating" :lol:
If she knew what Mecca was she would probably have said 8B...
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Thinking of emailing decathlon and suggesting they start making kneepads
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Anyone tried out these Spanish pads? https://blakpad.com/ look pretty decent. Trying to decide whether it's worth faffing around with trying to sort out postage (they only offer postage to Spain on their website).
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Anyone tried out these Spanish pads? https://blakpad.com/ look pretty decent. Trying to decide whether it's worth faffing around with trying to sort out postage (they only offer postage to Spain on their website).
I tried one on in a shop in Chulilla, I found it very uncomfortable due to the single super wide strap - seemed like it would be good if you had very cylindrical thighs maybe, but I found if the velcro was in the right place to fasten and I wanted it tight enough not to slip it would felt like one edge of the strap really flipping dug in. Shame, as I'm a big fan of the shape being recessed at the back of the knee!
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From my initial use: They feel horrible to wear initially but 'bed in'. Feel like they'll fall down too but actually stick better than anything else on many knees - the rubber is great. More painful than a send but works better from where I've compared side by side...
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Given that the UKB Rule Book has defined knee pads as legal specialist equipment, it makes sense to get the best ones on the market...
https://www.highspots.com/c/knee-pads-instock.html
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From my initial use: They feel horrible to wear initially but 'bed in'. Feel like they'll fall down too but actually stick better than anything else on many knees - the rubber is great. More painful than a send but works better from where I've compared side by side...
I have a blakpad and I agree with all points above. Important to note that they have a side as well and if you put them on the wrong side (metal bar on the inside) they are very uncomfortable. For technical knee bars on very slick limestone they are worse than send for me. They come in different sizes and I could only get the smallest to stick. The rubber is clearly better than on send.
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Interesting reviews, thanks everyone. Sounds like the fit is a pain, especially as it seems you have to have a left and a right. Not sure I want to spend 160 euros!
jwi, if it's not too personal a question, roughly what size and shape are your legs?
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I have really skinny legs. I look like a shorebird.
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Anyone used a red chilli kneerock pad? At £35 it's half the price of the cheapest send pad.
I've never used a knee pad to date but have decided it's time to invest as there's a few boulders I'd like to try that need them.
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Anyone used a red chilli kneerock pad? At £35 it's half the price of the cheapest send pad.
I've never used a knee pad to date but have decided it's time to invest as there's a few boulders I'd like to try that need them.
I've had one to test for the last year or so and frankly whilst it works ok the Send pads are much better, especially with the newer internal grip pattern. The red chili one is softer so in theory should be better for techy moderate stuff but practically slips a fair bit more meaning you can't milk the marginal knees like you want. Only my n=1 but I wouldn't personally buy one.
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From my initial use: They feel horrible to wear initially but 'bed in'. Feel like they'll fall down too but actually stick better than anything else on many knees - the rubber is great. More painful than a send but works better from where I've compared side by side...
I have a blakpad and I agree with all points above. Important to note that they have a side as well and if you put them on the wrong side (metal bar on the inside) they are very uncomfortable. For technical knee bars on very slick limestone they are worse than send for me. They come in different sizes and I could only get the smallest to stick. The rubber is clearly better than on send.
I feel that I should update my initial somewhat luke-warm review of the BlakPad. I bought one left-sided to evaluate, because only noobs have too few kneepads, and initially preferred my old send large knee pad. After the BlakPad seated in on the knee I started to use it exclusively and ordered a right-sided as well. All three send knee pads (one small and two large) are now in storage together with the 5.10 kneepad and other assorted abandoned brands.
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Thanks Mischahy. It's good to read some unbiased first hand experience.
JWI - sounds like you have a send for sale ;)
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Thanks for the update jwi, that's definitely peaked my interest. It sounds like the rubber is the biggest improvement over the send? How easy is it to get the blakpad sitting low on your knee, for those kneebars where it feels like you're basically using the kneecap? One thing I like with the big send pads is that you can leave the bottom strap undone and let it hang right over your knee.
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The BlakPad is clearly superior to Send for kneebars set next to the knee cap. Like La Sportiva Laspo they have a tongue that hang outs over the kneecap. See photos here https://blakpad.com/
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Also have become my default pair, though my wife is less keen on them. Perhaps more leg shape dependent than the send?
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JWI - sounds like you have a send for sale ;)
Only a noob has too few knee pads ;)
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Also have become my default pair, though my wife is less keen on them. Perhaps more leg shape dependent than the send?
I can imagine. I know from bitter experience that listening to people with pipe cleaner legs about what works is pointless. I’d love to find a pad that doesn’t slip down for those of us with more of a “chicken drumstick” shape…
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Also have become my default pair, though my wife is less keen on them. Perhaps more leg shape dependent than the send?
I can imagine. I know from bitter experience that listening to people with pipe cleaner legs about what works is pointless. I’d love to find a pad that doesn’t slip down for those of us with more of a “chicken drumstick” shape…
My better half has fully functioning legs with muscles and stuff and she has also switched to BlakPad. She is 25 cm shorter than me and use size medium, I have them in the small size.
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I've a pair of Blakpads too and get on with them. As with all of these tools it worth having a few options. A bit like heels on shoes, sometimes pays to try a few different ones.
I understand this can get costly and especially so if you throw Blakpads into the mix.
I'd just go with a send pad (two strap one) as they seem easy to get hold of.
I think the red chilli ones are not in the uk yet, I might be wrong though
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For most people a send pad is perfectly adequate. They also last forever unless you lose it or are constantly knee barring, which most people don't.
By my fag packet calcs it sounds like jwi has spent upwards of 400 euros on kneepads!! Christ knows what Barrows has...
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I think the red chilli ones are not in the uk yet, I might be wrong though
Saw they've got them in stock at outside at the mo https://www.outside.co.uk/red-chili-kneerock-knee-pad.html
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4 large Send pads £150
3 rock and resole pads £90
1 mini Send pad £60
1 la sportiva pad £60
2 blak pads £150
Kneebaring your mate's project: priceless.
*I can't actually remember how much the different pads cost, but our household does have a lot. I figure so long as I have more pairs of shoes than pairs of pads it's still acceptable
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I think the red chilli ones are not in the uk yet, I might be wrong though
Winner. When I spoke with RC UK rep they were not sure when they would be making it in.
Saw they've got them in stock at outside at the mo https://www.outside.co.uk/red-chili-kneerock-knee-pad.html
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4 large Send pads £150
3 rock and resole pads £90
1 mini Send pad £60
1 la sportiva pad £60
2 blak pads £150
Kneebaring your mate's project: priceless.
*I can't actually remember how much the different pads cost, but our household does have a lot. I figure so long as I have more pairs of shoes than pairs of pads it's still acceptable
Is the sportiva any good?
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It's decent but the lowest buckle/strap can be very sore. I wouldn't want to use it on long routes much personally, but pretty good for bouldering
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4 large Send pads £150
3 rock and resole pads £90
1 mini Send pad £60
1 la sportiva pad £60
2 blak pads £150
Kneebaring your mate's project: priceless.
*I can't actually remember how much the different pads cost, but our household does have a lot. I figure so long as I have more pairs of shoes than pairs of pads it's still acceptable
Is the sportiva any good?
It's not rubbish but I didn't gel with it personally.
The straps seemed thin and hurt when I had it super tight and the beaky bit over the knee kept on catching on the rope when drop kneeing. I never used it bouldering though.
I've only got 10 knee pads so Barrows will know more.
I sold mine on pretty much straight away if that means anything..
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For most people a send pad is perfectly adequate. They also last forever unless you lose it or are constantly knee barring, which most people don't.
For what it's worth my send pad of 4 or 5 years is starting to look pretty tired, I do like a knee bar or 2 though. Not sure if it's still an issue with the newer ones (with the sticky pattern printed on the inside) but the neoprene has started falling apart and the straps are starting to wear out. Overall I dont think durability is an issue but they're not invincible.
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4 large Send pads £150
3 rock and resole pads £90
Having more than two of the same type seems excessive.
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4 large Send pads £150
3 rock and resole pads £90
1 mini Send pad £60
1 la sportiva pad £60
2 blak pads £150
Kneebaring your mate's project: priceless.
*I can't actually remember how much the different pads cost, but our household does have a lot. I figure so long as I have more pairs of shoes than pairs of pads it's still acceptable
Is the sportiva any good?
It's not rubbish but I didn't gel with it personally.
The straps seemed thin and hurt when I had it super tight and the beaky bit over the knee kept on catching on the rope when drop kneeing. I never used it bouldering though.
I've only got 10 knee pads so Barrows will know more.
I sold mine on pretty much straight away if that means anything..
I have
2 large send.
2 Sportiva
2 small send
2 rock and resole sleeves.
Need some blak pads for the full set. ::)
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For most people a send pad is perfectly adequate. They also last forever unless you lose it or are constantly knee barring, which most people don't.
For what it's worth my send pad of 4 or 5 years is starting to look pretty tired, I do like a knee bar or 2 though. Not sure if it's still an issue with the newer ones (with the sticky pattern printed on the inside) but the neoprene has started falling apart and the straps are starting to wear out. Overall I dont think durability is an issue but they're not invincible.
I have repaired one of mine, stitching the rubber back with a leather sewing awl and adding some left over stretch jeans bits to patch the neoprene. Economic theory suggests that I would have been better off taking on extra teaching instead.
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Bit of a long shot but does anyone know where I might be able to get hold of a blakpad in the UK? Their website seems to be down at the moment https://blakpad.com/
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Aren't you in Spain atm? In which case wouldn't your best bet be to visit a local climbing shop?
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Heading back tomorrow so unfortunately won't have time. Poor planning though given we've been out for ages!
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Bit of a long shot but does anyone know where I might be able to get hold of a blakpad in the UK? Their website seems to be down at the moment https://blakpad.com/
On their profile on insta https://www.instagram.com/kneepad_blakpad/ they write “Para envíos internacionales escríbenos por privado”, so send them a dm!
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Bit of a long shot but does anyone know where I might be able to get hold of a blakpad in the UK? Their website seems to be down at the moment https://blakpad.com/
There are delays in stock out here in Spain at the moment.
Its a bit of a logistical nightmare as they do hard and soft rubber, left and right, and also s/m/l and not everyone buys a pair.
A left will be ok as a right, and vice versa as long as you dont mine buckle on inside of your leg.
Best buy a pair.
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Has anyone tried the Bagoa Negra?
I have a Send Classic which I really like and was looking at getting a second, but this is cheaper, a similar design, and also looks like the rubber dips a bit at the front a bit like the blakpad.
https://darkventures.co.uk/bagoa-negra-knee-pad-1743-p.asp
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I have a Blak pad, right, large for sale if anyone is after one.
Grip is amazing but fit is terrible. Medium was too tight and large needs cranking too much.