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Grades aren't as useless or mystical as you and Adam seem to be implying though. There are certain grades everyone could reasonably say they could climb every route /problem of that grade, regardless of style etc. The way you two are using them is not the way most others do, as Barrows had alluded to. They use it as an indication of overall difficulty and WSS, whilst an edge case, is clearly not an E4 in the common sense metric. It fails the smell test.
Grades aren’t mystical or useless at all, at no point have we said that. And yes wss isn’t E4 it’s 7C in my opinion, it used to be E4 for the reasons discussed already, it’s a fact… it was given that! We have tried to explain why….
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« Last post by Davo on Yesterday at 06:57:39 pm »
I’ve not actually bothered to read the BMC accounts before but that is a vanishingly small amount of actual information and gives no indication of what money was actually spent on.
I assume that the 2023 accounts are going to have much more detail?
Dave
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I'm no expert either (blind leading the blind) but as far as I know all of your photos on your apple devices will be saved to your a cloud via your account and therefore accessible from any device once you log into your Apple account. Saves manual transfer. You may have to buy extra storage to do this, I think I pay £0.99/month for about 200GB, but it does mean your photos are not just stored locally on the device. I've used 112GB of my allowance and have 13,000+ pictures and videos, if that helps to imagine how far 200GB goes.
Regarding All photos, I would think that will always contain all photos, but you can just navigate your folders from Albums on the bottom nav bar and then scroll sideways to see your albums
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I’d pay good money to see the reactions of the locals in Czech when some British guy rocks up and tells them that route x couldn’t possibly be E1/5.10/6a as he always can climb that grade anywhere…..
Also as I keep saying it’s the same with any system…. Tell Americans their grades are fucked cos offwidths fuck it up. The majority of sport climbers can’t climb 5.11 ow does that mean that crack wads who only climb in the desert should expect to climb 5.13 in the RRG because all the 5.13 crimpers cant move on cracks….
The point Adam/jb and I are trying to make is E grades work as well if not better than any other grade system.
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« Last post by Offwidth on Yesterday at 06:19:18 pm »
I think that's a pisstake of a response. I could have swallowed not accepting the subsidiary motion. Not agreeing to the financial resolution is a joke and pretty hard to defend.
I naively expected support being possible for the financial motion but I wasn't aware then that the 2022 data just wasn't in a good enough state to provide anything like the same information we intend to publish for 2023 (where all the really problematic loses were). The headline 2022 accounts are available on the links below. https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=2244https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=2243
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One of the problems from an outsider is the focus put on the E part. Rhapsody E11! But I wouldn't have a clue what the tech grade actually is on it, event though I've read quite some things about it, you never see it mentioned in any headlines.
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« Last post by Will Hunt on Yesterday at 05:58:50 pm »
I think WSS at E4 is fine. When the difficulty is in a short boulder problem close to the ground the E grade is always brutal. It's always had to be that way to stop boulderers going round thinking they've done some big E number.
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Really….. so what grade can you climb any route at..? Regardless of style, I think our only point is it’s way under your max grade… and that doesn’t mean grades are broken, it’s more people’s ego’s are inflated. Go to Czech or Yosemite, and tell me you can confidently climb anything, literally anything at 5.10 (a grade well below your max) and we will point you at some stuff and pull up a chair….
Climbing is diverse… grades are diverse. I genuinely find it fairly ludicrous that anybody could expect to climb E4 anywhere… even ondra respects what E4 could mean in Czech, more people should be like him and get over themselves…
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Grades aren't as useless or mystical as you and Adam seem to be implying though. There are certain grades everyone could reasonably say they could climb every route /problem of that grade, regardless of style etc. The way you two are using them is not the way most others do, as Barrows had alluded to. They use it as an indication of overall difficulty and WSS, whilst an edge case, is clearly not an E4 in the common sense metric. It fails the smell test.
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@Northern Yob - Generational thing? You being funny? I'm in my 5th decade and have been trad climbing for 20 years. I've climbed trad in Cornwall, Wales, northern Ireland and all across Scotland. E3 and E4 would be the zone where I probably have the best "feel" for grades, and, looking at my logbook I've done 83 E3s and 63 E4s. When I rock up to a new crag in a new area, I usually drop to the more comfortable grades and then build up. I'll look at the trad grade, description, maybe notes on UKC..., eyeball the route then think "aye, that looks a goer". So far I've found grades to be pretty consistent within +/- half an E grade and I've had similar success onsighting wherever I go.
Some places I've had more success, North Wales and Fairhead, for example - maybe I just had a good week, climbing well and good conditions, or maybe they were a bit easier? Who knows.
But fucking hell, if I rocked up to a crag and there was an E4 7a all I'd think is:
Are they on crack? 
Please put aside your straw man arguments about trying to relate back to sport grades... no one mentioned that, no one (in this thread) is arguing that. I'm not "back calculating", I'm using the UK trad grade exactly how most of the people I climb with use it - a scale that gives you an idea of the relative difficulty of onsighting a route.
Maybe in the obscure microcosm of parochial grit weirdness E4 7a makes sense? But in any place where you have to put more than 3 bits of pro in before topping out, it's bonkers and breaks the system.
Evidently not…. We are basically the same generation.
Isn’t this the same with all grades, there are always things which fuck it up…. A lot of 5.13 onsighters probably can’t get their heads around a 5.11 offwidth, how can it be the same grade as their regular warm up….
Have you been to font?? I like to think I can climb v6/7 pretty much anywhere (I can most places) there are things which equate to v4 in font, I can’t even get off the ground on. Does that mean they aren’t that grade? Adam ondra doesn’t fall off many v10’s I wouldn’t imagine? Yet he dropped Marie Rose. What E4 7a does is tell you it’s one of those rare problems before you even pull off the ground therefore doing it’s job perfectly… conveying information.
I'm not sure I really understand your point about Font. Those technical v4s in font will feel every bit of v4 when you execute them with perfect technique. On the other hand, a font 7B+ boulder problem is going to feel substantially harder than any 6C boulder no matter how perfectly you execute the former.
It was in reference to Fultonius expecting to be able to climb any E4…. And that wss couldn’t be E4 because there’s no chance he could climb it… I’ve climbed much harder than v4, but that doesn’t mean something I can’t do can’t be V4. Make sense now…..??
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