UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: douglas on July 22, 2014, 07:57:57 pm
-
I can hold a front lever for about 15 seconds and obviously if I could hold it for longer that would be better. My question is, how do I train for this because at the moment I am failing because I can't breathe during the hold and therefore I run out of air...
Thank you
-
L hangs, tucked levers, one leg levers - all while breathing, until you can do 60 seconds of each
then try the full levers
invoice in the post
-
do levers of 7secs each on the minute for 8 mins (8 reps in total), do this for 2 months and then test your maximum time.
check out steady state training on the gymnastic bodies forum.
-
Have you ever been on a route or problem that needs you to do a front lever for more than 15 secs? (Or is this a training target etc..)
-
Have you ever been on a route or problem that needs you to do a front lever for more than 15 secs? (Or is this a training target etc..)
Have you ever been a route that requires you to do a front lever at all?
-
Nope.
Muses to self: Am I becoming Dense...?
-
It looks cool down at the playground and yummy mummies dig it
scroll down to the bit about front lever progression
http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/building-an-olympic-body-through-bodyweight-conditioning/ (http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/building-an-olympic-body-through-bodyweight-conditioning/)
-
What've I got to do with the price of fish tomtom?
I think front levers like side levers etc are one of them things you can do or you can't. Ie I could do all the progressions that slackers was referring to, but not once was I near a convincing lever or planche :(
Meanwhile my little fat friend could do perfect levers off an edge for a stupid amount of time and one armers at the drop of a hat, even after 3 mths of doing nothing except drink and smoke!
Which just goes to show there's no justice in anything
-
I think front levers like side levers etc are one of them things you can do or you can't.
the only reason people cant do levers is because, like me, they are not strong enough to do them.
-
Apologies for taking your name in vain Dense... :)
I felt myself about to be drawn into a rant about whats the point of doing FL's etc..
-
What've I got to do with the price of fish tomtom?
Weren't you a Leuitenant in the codfinger wars?
-
What've I got to do with the price of fish tomtom?
Weren't you a Leuitenant in the codfinger wars?
I was a very able seaman...
-
Which just goes to show there's no justice in anything
what has justice got to do with rule of law?
-
About as much as front levers have to do with climbing
-
And about as much as this thread has to do with improving your front lever time.
Sorry to sidetrack it.... :-[
-
As if one should train for real climbing...
Pah.
-
As an aside, the best way I've found to transition to full lever from one leg bent, is to strap extra weight to my ankle. Or do sets of 3 - 5 reps, lower legs, raise back into lever, lower etc The implication being, that it may be more relevant to increase load rather than time. Why not try free diving?
-
Thank you. I like the idea of doing a front lever progression for a longer period of time, then transitioning that back to full front lever. I tried the half max time every minute for a minute but didn't make much off of it in the way of gains. Most of my front lever gains come from lifting in the gym.
One could say the same about any form of climbing training other than working your chosen problem to be a non-relavent exercise. I mean how many routes require one to hold an edge for 7 seconds then not for 3 seconds then again for 7 seconds etc...
-
If that last bit was aimed at me Douglas I was just turning lagers quip on it's side. I'm with nibs, I lv training, climbing is just a holiday for me.
Ps without wanting to appear to go down on him Dave had the best front lever I've ever seen
-
No, it wasn't aimed at you, a dense loner, it was a reply in general.
How tall is he? Front levers at 6 foot 4 aren't easy!
-
I think quite a lot of routes involve holding a hold for about 7 seconds then releasing for a couple of seconds actually.
I can't imagine that whatever front levers train is a limiting factor I'd you can hold one for 15s, so unless you want to train them just for the sake of themselves (fair enough islf so) then I'd suggest putting the time into something else?
-
I'd suggest putting the time into something else?
One arm front levers...
(http://www.supertopo.com/photos/3/22/153707_22740_L.jpg)
-
Hmm Mr Gill. What a guy... Seemed to work for him tho naysayers??
-
Gill was quite weak by today's standards though? V9? I accept shoes and technique may have held him back too
-
Just deleted a massive rant. Suffice to say, that is a ridiculous and silly post.
-
Hmm Mr Gill. What a guy... Seemed to work for him tho naysayers??
I don't really understand what you're getting at here? Do you think he could climb well because he could easily do front levers? He was a gymnast
-
Maybe if he'd spent more time on a 45 and less on a bar he'd have done V11 ;-)
-
Maybe if he'd spent more time on a 45 and less in the bar he'd have done V11 ;-)
...is more applicable to most of us!
-
I've been thinking about the original post. Why can't you breathe while doing a front lever? You must be pretty close to being able to, surely?
How about doing sets of three for 10 seconds each, or something like that, until you're strong enough to hold one more easily - and hence be able to breathe? Maybe you need to do some core work?
You could just practise breathing ;-) and that's probably relevant to your climbing :-)
Lastly, have you tried doing pull-ups in the lever position - a fantastic exercise!
I can't imagine that being able to lever for longer will be detrimental to your climbing, unless you chop your legs off.
Dave.
-
Hmm Mr Gill. What a guy... Seemed to work for him tho naysayers??
sorry I was drunk.
i like John Gill though and stand by that.
-
Topic resurrection.
My girlfriend bought an Ab-wheel, that obviously was immediately taken by myself and kept in my house. Well, that little thing works! It's a nasty little bastard that wheel.
I am not exactly weak for core and front levers, but I got a serious beating!
The leverage is a lot worse, while in front levers you tend to get under the bar in equilibrium, wih the wheel you have always your arms stretched in front of you and that's a lot harder.
Doing it from the knees is not especially hard, but when I tried it standing on my toes with stiff body it' really really hard!
It was a while since the last time I had suck DOMS at my abs!
Get in and buy an Ab-wheel.
-
Been looking at these exercises for my bad back - and seen quite a few warnings about using ab wheels.. As in easy to injure yourself if not strong/careful enough.... Not saying they're bad - just be aware..
-
Been looking at these exercises for my bad back - and seen quite a few warnings about using ab wheels.. As in easy to injure yourself if not strong/careful enough.... Not saying they're bad - just be aware..
Much prefer to use the rings for this (I have improvised a set in a door frame in the past). I always felt it easier to control and it is possible to build up into the full plank by starting with the rings at ~waist height and progressively lowering to ~ankle height as you strengthen.
Also, I've now progressed to extending to the Plank and bringing the arms back to a crucifix. Not entirely flat in this position yet, but getting there.
-
if you have the space and already have a weights set at home/in the garage, just roll out using the bar with discs. ok it is slightly more stable, but saves having another toy cluttering up the place
-
Been looking at these exercises for my bad back - and seen quite a few warnings about using ab wheels.. As in easy to injure yourself if not strong/careful enough.... Not saying they're bad - just be aware..
Tomtom. One of the things that stopped me making my back pain go away was constantly over estimating what would constitute strengthening exercises compared to things that are too hard and make it worse.
In the end I realised my correct level was building up to doing 5 wall squats at a time. though at first just doing air squats was too hard. So take it easy!
-
Hi Sam - confused - do you mean 'do not try too hard exercises - build up slowly' (which I think you mean :) )
-
and build up even more slowly than you think you should
-
Ok. Have been...
-
Slower than that still...
-
1/2 a rep?
-
Yes, in a year!
-
I've slowly increased over the last 3 weeks and some of the exercises are at the point where I stop reps because I'm bored rather than tired..
-
That sounds about right. Consider continueing this for another few months before you start with abwheels and the like..
-
if you have the space and already have a weights set at home/in the garage, just roll out using the bar with discs. ok it is slightly more stable, but saves having another toy cluttering up the place
I've tried it, but te discs are very clunky, they don't roll well on the bar or barbell and they slide on the floor, putting you at risk of a faceplant.
The Ab-wheel works a lot better and can be mounted and dismounted in 30 seconds. Takes very little room. Also, it's actually made with two wheels that offer a wider base so that the equilibrium is way better.
-
Standing roll outs are the living end. I've never found a core exercise that's anywhere as difficult as them. Have you seen the videos of Ross Enamit doing them one armed with a weight vest on for reps?
-
if you have the space and already have a weights set at home/in the garage, just roll out using the bar with discs. ok it is slightly more stable, but saves having another toy cluttering up the place
I've tried it, but te discs are very clunky, they don't roll well on the bar or barbell and they slide on the floor, putting you at risk of a faceplant.
The Ab-wheel works a lot better and can be mounted and dismounted in 30 seconds. Takes very little room. Also, it's actually made with two wheels that offer a wider base so that the equilibrium is way better.
ahh, my bar has integral bearings so rolls beautifully, the discs on the other hand ::)
doing it with a bar and discs has the added advantage of it being an additional fight to pull the bar back in.
Standing roll outs are the living end. I've never found a core exercise that's anywhere as difficult as them.
I tend to agree, which is why i don't do them any more (yes i realise that equates to laziness)
-
Well...
We had to test it.
It is slightly easier to do it with the rings as you don't end up quite so low.
Our wheel is good and stable, but fear of face plant definitely held me back...
https://vimeo.com/113713664 (https://vimeo.com/113713664)
https://vimeo.com/113713720 (https://vimeo.com/113713720)
Oh, yeah, this is mega strong, 8A, Can do one armers on the BM 45*, Ed Gow-Smith trying...
https://vimeo.com/113713914 (https://vimeo.com/113713914)
-
Did I mention, Ed is 26 (Twenty Six!) years younger than me...?
26.
That's years.
-
Well...
We had to test it.
It is slightly easier to do it with the rings as you don't end up quite so low.
Our wheel is good and stable, but fear of face plant definitely held me back...
https://vimeo.com/113713664 (https://vimeo.com/113713664)
https://vimeo.com/113713720 (https://vimeo.com/113713720)
Oh, yeah, this is mega strong, 8A, Can do one armers on the BM 45*, Ed Gow-Smith trying...
https://vimeo.com/113713914 (https://vimeo.com/113713914)
Crikey, if anyone follows those links to vimeo, don't click on "tapatalks videos on vimeo" if you are at work !!!!!!!!
-
:w00t:
Had to go and look at that through a browser.
Don't blame me! I did not upload the vid of a BJ on the window ledge of a skyscraper...
:sorry:
-
Stinkin' Ab wheel.
Second session, with a 5" pause at full extention, no Doms no nothing.
Meh.
-
DOMS is not a good measure of efficacy, as you well know...
(But I find roll outs with a balance ball, with my feet on the sofa very hard on the abs and serratus anterior)
-
DOMS is not a good measure of efficacy, as you well know...
Yes I know but they make me feel manly.
-
fair enough
-
Stinkin' Ab wheel.
Second session, with a 5" pause at full extention, no Doms no nothing.
Meh.
Best get on the one arm rollouts + weight then!
-
Ahahahahahahahahah!
That could rip me in two!
But yes that would be very cool.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmPxIUt7AEw#t=225 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmPxIUt7AEw#t=225)
Pure insanity, 3:44 for the one arms with a weight vest
-
Stinkin' Ab wheel.
Second session, with a 5" pause at full extention, no Doms no nothing.
Meh.
whilst paused, practise some Shark style power screams
perhaps wear ear defenders if practicing indoors
-
Still working for the (lost) cause.
http://youtu.be/QWsouzw7Tig (http://youtu.be/QWsouzw7Tig)
The rolls are part of my finisher's routine. After those there are kettlebell swings and a weights compound. All for two sets.
800 grams of tripes is not an uncommon dinner as of late.
I love this fucking shit.
-
I don't have a weightvest, but I find using the ab wheel on one knee and one foot feels like good progression
-
Cool. Will give it a go!
-
Had a test the other day, without weightvest I'm able to do the ab-wheel on my toes, with decent posture.
Ultrahard effort, I thought my eyes would plop out!
I used a slightly divaricated stance in order to reduce the leverage, but was still good. And a few seconds pause at the bottom. Going back is super hard too. 5 reps max, 2 sets.
I will probably keep doing the knee version, weighted, with longer pauses at full extention and add one set. It seems to work.
Doing them on the toes with ONE ARM is ultrahuman.
-
Good doing!
I should structure my training a little :-\
-
Probably slightly off topic but how many days a week do you end up training Nibile? Or I guess how do you end up structuring your sessions to train most days and not overtrain and get weak and injured? I'm gradually moving into better structured training and trying to taking proper rest but am ending up with something like 3 rest days a week and feel like I could probably separate things a bit more and train more and more efficiently.
Also, if you have rings then progression is easy, you can just set them down to the floor and slowly shuffle your feet backwards as you get better at them until its pretty much downhill. Tried with a wheel the other day on my toes but got out and couldn't get back! I like the holds at full extension though, feel brutal.
-
I'm not very good at planning for more than a few weeks, and I always tend to overdoing it, so I've been overtraining for years probably, in the past.
The problem is that I love training, there are so many physical abilities to improve!
Anyway, I think that the key factor is intensity.
If you keep that quite high it's harder to get into overtraining, because you're forced to kill volume.
I usually train four days a week for climbing, but they could be three or five, depending on how I feel and what I want to target. When trying to improve power endurance I often add one extra session.
On rest days I do only a finisher, see the related topic for info.
Other key factor is not getting too anxious about planning. Knowing your aim and following your body is a good way to go.
To train often and on consecutive days you need to have multiple sessions ready to be done, taking into account time, stress, fatigue and so on. For each tool (fingerboard, campusboard, wall) you should have as many different sessions as possible to target different qualities, prevent adaption and fight boredom. After a heavy fingerboarding session, the next one can't target the fingers as well, so no campus board, no fingery stuff on the wall, but maybe campusing problems with big moves on good holds, or working on core tension, or bouldering on slopey holds, etc.
I usually separate fingerboarding, core and bouldering. Fingerboarding comes first in the week, then bouldering. When bouldering I have power sessions earlier in the week, then power endurance ones and I never have endurance sessions. That's probably why after one year and half I still haven't climbed my 30 moves long circuit...
Hope this helps.
I have to say that all my session are generally short, or very short.
-
cool, thanks, I'll try to focus more on keeping the intensity up, I think that can drop sometimes and I can be a bit bad at changing things up, I feel like there's only so many bodyweight exercises I can do with a set of rings and a bar but that just means I get to find new ones :) Yeah, I've been following that thread, looking forward to trying some out
-
If you can only do a front lever without breathing it means you haven't got the core strength to hold one and breathe. Ergo either do lots of short ones with very quick rests inbetween and train up that way, or like others have said practise 1 leg out front levers while breathing etc.
-
Doing sets of the standing rollouts for 6 reps at the minute. I had the notion I'd do toes to bar leg raises the day after as well, so far I've not been able to do the leg raises as I'm still too knackered from the ab wheel. First day I did them in ages I had DOMS for 6 days.
Brutal!
-
Crossing this topic with the Finishers' one, while trying to figure out a new finisher yesterday evening, that did't involve my injured gluteus, and considering that I was a bit tired from the previous day's session, I had this nice ab-roll routine; on the knees:
- 5 normal reps;
- 5 reps with a 5" pause at full extension;
- 3 reps with a 10" pause at full extension.
No pause in between.
I did it twice, alternating with overhead barbell walk.
Brutal.
-
Nearly there...
http://youtu.be/lCo908BmDdY (http://youtu.be/lCo908BmDdY)
-
A thing of beauty nibs ;D
-
Some thoughts on "front lever for longer..".
As Twig said..
effectively, just get stronger. I've found it very useful to work exercises that we normally associate with a static hold, by doing them more dynamically.
Have you tried doing progressive raise and lowers, as slowly as possible through the lever motion? My levers are not particularly strong, so I do this with one leg bent, but add progressively more weight to the other, at the ankle.
I've found this to be easily the best way of improving my lever strength.
May post a video later.
-
I start being moderately satisfied.
http://youtu.be/WI6G891WN7E
-
Good going nibs :strongbench:
However I need some sort of explanation for what's on your feet?!
-
Women's shoes?
-
Nike Air Rift, black and camo. Courtesy of the one and only Unclesomebody from London.
-
Forgot to say: Good form!
-
I hope you didn't get a pair of shoes on the recommendation of unkle? He showed me the shittest pair of trainers I've ever seen and said what do you think? I got them from Japan, a special collectors edition they only cost £200!!! Oh my god I'm having flashbacks
-
To be fair it was just the opposite!
I'd been searching for them for ages, with no success. Then the obvious equation Sneakers=Uncle came to mind. Messaged him on WA, and five minutes later I had my new sneakers.
They're very comfy and mega cool. Maybe a bit soft for moving bigger weights, but fantastic on everything else. Now I want a smaller size for sprinting...
-
mega cool.
I'm assuming cool, as is your feet don't get too hot...
-
;D
-
Nice work. I find breathing correctly for these really difficult. You kind of want to hold it in to maintain tension as you lower down but I find if I hold it in for the whole rep my head feels like it's about to pop!
-
For standing rolls breathing is not an issue because the time of the rep is really short and you can easily manage it. Pressure feels tough though!
On kneeling rolls I do longer reps and sets with a 5" pause at full stretch for 6 reps and a 10" pause for 3 reps with no rest in between, so I need to breathe and of course it makes things harder.
It's not strange that breathing during a rep is highly advised for improving the squat and the deadlift. By breathing you release the abdominal pressure and become more unstable, so you have to compensate.