UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Fadanoid on June 10, 2014, 12:48:25 pm
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I'm interested in if any users have regularly worn a heart rate monitor whist Bouldering, and have established a rule of thumb average range as to how many calories you burn per hour of bouldering.
I realise that this is very subjective and that everyone's average will be different due to age, shape, size and dare I say it, the amount they actually do in that hour due to rest times/chatting to mates etc? I'm still keen to hear your results though.
My climbing these days is mainly 'billy no mates - old man on his garden moon board' which probably packs more climbing per hour than it use to in the indoor wall as I'm not chatting for ages.
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GME needs to post on this thread.
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How comes? Is an slagging off imminent despite my stating of it being subjective to different people?
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Can't see why heart rate is a good proxy for calories burnt myself and think it would be a pretty poor proxy really.
I think a better method would be to weigh yourself and gauge some estimate of the height you gain in a given session and work out how much energy is needed to raise the weight that distance. Making some way of "weighting" this proportionally by the inclination of the surface being climbed on might be useful too.
Quick searching revealed this on measuring calories burnt whilst cycling (http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/4668/how-to-measure-calories-burned).
A more academicly focused search using Google Scholar (http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q=calories+burnt+climbing&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5) found...
"Rock climbing gyms are easy to find. Just 30 minutes of rock climbing will burn 374 calories (http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=r_U7AwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP3&dq=calories+burnt+climbing&ots=Jex3fA6hwi&sig=edyzBRaw1Avj1OudcjhkpD_tIvg#v=onepage&q&f=false)"
...and an alternative search (http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=%22rock+climbing%22+calories&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C5) threw up...
Energy expenditure and physiological responses during indoor rock climbing. Br J Sports Med 1997;31:224-228 doi:10.1136/bjsm.31.3.224 (http://bjsportmed.com/content/31/3/224.short) (Full PDF (http://bjsportmed.com/content/31/3/224.full.pdf))
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Can't see why heart rate is a good proxy for calories burnt myself and think it would be a pretty poor proxy really.
I think a better method would be to weigh yourself and gauge some estimate of the height you gain in a given session and work out how much energy is needed to raise the weight that distance. Making some way of "weighting" this proportionally by the inclination of the surface being climbed on might be useful too.
Quick searching revealed this on measuring calories burnt whilst cycling (http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/4668/how-to-measure-calories-burned).
A more academicly focused search using Google Scholar (http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q=calories+burnt+climbing&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5) found...
"Rock climbing gyms are easy to find. Just 30 minutes of rock climbing will burn 374 calories (http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=r_U7AwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP3&dq=calories+burnt+climbing&ots=Jex3fA6hwi&sig=edyzBRaw1Avj1OudcjhkpD_tIvg#v=onepage&q&f=false)"
...and an alternative search (http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=%22rock+climbing%22+calories&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C5) threw up...
Energy expenditure and physiological responses during indoor rock climbing. Br J Sports Med 1997;31:224-228 doi:10.1136/bjsm.31.3.224 (http://bjsportmed.com/content/31/3/224.short) (Full PDF (http://bjsportmed.com/content/31/3/224.full.pdf))
I'll be honest. I only mentioned the heart rate monitor as I'd seen it mentioned in another topic.
I'm sure there are better ways to measure it. I should have done some google searching but my first port of call was here as there are more old fat gits like myself on here who may have already looked into this.
Don't pretend you're not, you are.
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See the methods section of the last paper I linked for a method of how to estimate Energy Expenditure ("EE was calculated using the non-protein RER kJ equivalents") which isn't that helpful to the lay person but this book might shed light on that (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GkpPLE5uQuwC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=RER+kj+equivalent&source=bl&ots=rXr8B6K3D-&sig=2QD_hM2qSjQvfeBgtFfEw7XrN0M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sfuWU5PDL4GeO-vlgPgJ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ).
A poor proxy results in GIGO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_in,_garbage_out).
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Trying to read those papers just used about 40calories of brain power. :-[
It seemed to conclude that its the equivalent of fast paced walking
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I think heart rate monitors have been used to check recovery, rather than as a way of counting calories.
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Trying to read those papers just used about 40calories of brain power. :-[
The brain is greedy (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calories/)
It seemed to conclude that its the equivalent of fast paced walking
They say they found that energy expenditures was increased to the equivalent of running at between 8-11 minutes/mile from the tests they did (three climbs of increasing difficulty (5.6 at 90o; 5.9 at 106o; 5.11+ at 151o on a 6.35m wall for five minutes, no resting), steeper climb equated to higher energy expenditure (unsurprisingly). Slightly more than a fast paced walk (for me at least).
They also note that "Psychological stress may also be a consideration in the understanding of H[eart] R[ate] responses during rock climbing"
The sample size was quite small in this work though.
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I always wear my HRM and GPS watch when running and its a pretty good way I think of tracking effort (PTE) and calories burned. I've used Suunto's Movescount for a while now and I think its about as good as you can hope for in terms of tracking exercise; heck if someone like Killian Jornet uses it its good enough for me. Latest race here out of interest;
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33182151 (http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33182151)
For some reason I've never worn it down the wall though, but I should be down the Climbing Works this Friday so will wear it then and upload results. You should be able to see clearly between the "bits I am trying hard" and the "sat down drinking tea reading old OTE's".
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Trying to read those papers just used about 40calories of brain power. :-[
The brain is greedy (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calories/)
It seemed to conclude that its the equivalent of fast paced walking
They also note that "Psychological stress may also be a consideration in the understanding of H[eart] R[ate] responses during rock climbing"
This is highly intriguing. I might get a HR monitor to test the psychological effects when my Japanese neighbour watches me Moon board from his conservatory wearing his shell suit.
It is a wee bit offputting, but if he is increasing my heartrate and I'm burning more calories I should embrace the stress?
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He's going to watch you if you've stolen his shell suit and are training from his conservatory.
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The law states quite clearly that if you can reach your neighbours washing line over the fence then you can borrow anything as long as its from a person or persons of the same gender as you.
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I use a heart rate monitor when cycling which gives a (very rough guess ) calories burnt. This is based on age, sex, weight and max heart rate. I have never worn it bouldering as I have always belived anyone wearing a watch whilst climbing was a bit of a dick.
I did wear it while doing weights and even doing max efforts on leg press and benching, my heart rate never went that high. So calories burnt was quite low.Yet despite years of aerobic training my heart rate soon shoots up even running for a bus or riding up a speed bump.
So I guess if you want to burn calories bouldering you might have to go as fast as fuck.
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I've not worn my HRM for bouldering, but do for cycling, I guess your results show the difference between aerobic and anaerobic effort?
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I always wear my HRM and GPS watch when running and its a pretty good way I think of tracking effort (PTE) and calories burned. I've used Suunto's Movescount for a while now and I think its about as good as you can hope for in terms of tracking exercise; heck if someone like Killian Jornet uses it its good enough for me. Latest race here out of interest;
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33182151 (http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33182151)
For some reason I've never worn it down the wall though, but I should be down the Climbing Works this Friday so will wear it then and upload results. You should be able to see clearly between the "bits I am trying hard" and the "sat down drinking tea reading old OTE's".
Yeah, let me know how you get on. That's the sort of thing I'm after knowing.
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I always wear my HRM and GPS watch when running and its a pretty good way I think of tracking effort (PTE) and calories burned. I've used Suunto's Movescount for a while now and I think its about as good as you can hope for in terms of tracking exercise; heck if someone like Killian Jornet uses it its good enough for me. Latest race here out of interest;
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33182151 (http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33182151)
For some reason I've never worn it down the wall though, but I should be down the Climbing Works this Friday so will wear it then and upload results. You should be able to see clearly between the "bits I am trying hard" and the "sat down drinking tea reading old OTE's".
Yeah, let me know how you get on. That's the sort of thing I'm after knowing.
will do, will post up a link to the session on here
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Trying to read those papers just used about 40calories of brain power. :-[
The brain is greedy (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/thinking-hard-calories/)
It seemed to conclude that its the equivalent of fast paced walking
They say they found that energy expenditures was increased to the equivalent of running at between 8-11 minutes/mile from the tests they did (three climbs of increasing difficulty (5.6 at 90o; 5.9 at 106o; 5.11+ at 151o on a 6.35m wall for five minutes, no resting), steeper climb equated to higher energy expenditure (unsurprisingly). Slightly more than a fast paced walk (for me at least).
They also note that "Psychological stress may also be a consideration in the understanding of H[eart] R[ate] responses during rock climbing"
The sample size was quite small in this work though.
So basically if you do non-stop power endurance you burn calories equivalent to running. No shit. I suspect my average session at the wall is more like a gentle stroll.
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I think a better method would be to weigh yourself and gauge some estimate of the height you gain in a given session and work out how much energy is needed to raise the weight that distance. Making some way of "weighting" this proportionally by the inclination of the surface being climbed on might be useful too.
So 50m of VSmoves would burn more calories than failing ten times 2m upon some font desparate?
It's an internal system innit? Intensity also equals raised MBR over longer time.
January versus June is quite a big factor too.
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Did an hour and a half down the Climbing Works this evening wearing the HRM. I decided to put the watch in my pocket so i didn't offend anyone (webbo ;D). Some interesting results, uploaded here;
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33675827 (http://www.movescount.com/moves/move33675827)
the first "lap" was warming up on greens and reds, and HR never got above 122, which for me is pretty low. you can then see on the second and third lap (yellow lap two, then wasp circuit), each problem with the peaks in HR, peaking at 176. By my reckoning i did 22 problems, or attempts on problems in these two laps (I think i did most of them first or second go). All the peaks are very distinctive too even though i didn't feel i was pushing too hard.
I then had a quick can of pop almost exactly at one hour. Last lap was some steadier yellows and wasps again which I've pretty much got wired too.
Given the relatively low heart rate for me it still worked out at 649 kcals which is pretty reasonable going, I honestly thought before this little experiment that climbing was a bit of a day off for me in between running and swimming, but actually a session like that down the wall is broadly similar in output to a 45 minute, 8km run.
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Thats intresting that you are burning that many cals. I find that although climbing can make me feel battered, aerobic stuff completly destroys me at times. But looking at some Sportives I did last year 100 miles done in 6 hours give or take a few mins. I'm burning 5,000 plus cals with average H/R rate around 150 with a max of 185.So 900 cals an hour which sort makes bouldering a rest.
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I completely agree, I am surprised at the amount of calories burnt, but two things; firstly, I have, i think a pretty quick heart rate both at rest but particularly when exercising. It's not uncommon during fell races for me to average over 175 and to peak at around 190. I know the 220 minus age is junk but still, for a reasonably fit 40 year old, thats still pretty high.
If you also look at the log, I am resting no more than about 2 minutes between each attempt, which again I think is reasonably short. In part this is because I tend to climb there on my own so not working problems with a group.
You are right though, compared to proper aerobic exercise, climbing can be (for me at least) pretty sedentary.
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If your 190 is high for a fit 40 year old where does that leave me hiting 180 plus several times a session at 59. I haven't gone for max in a while.
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If your 190 is high for a fit 40 year old where does that leave me hiting 180 plus several times a session at 59. I haven't gone for max in a while.
Bloody hell, respect. When I hit max (currently 191) I feel like I am about to pass out.
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Thats intresting that you are burning that many cals. I find that although climbing can make me feel battered, aerobic stuff completly destroys me at times. But looking at some Sportives I did last year 100 miles done in 6 hours give or take a few mins. I'm burning 5,000 plus cals with average H/R rate around 150 with a max of 185.So 900 cals an hour which sort makes bouldering a rest.
At my elephantine weight, gps devices seem to calculate an hours run at about 1200 calories. I presume it's not really so high, but I do sometimes use it as an excuse for a pizza. (Thus maintaining the weight etc)
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One of the primary reasons I exercise as much as I do is so I can eat pretty much what I like. The days of ridiculous dieting to keep my weight down for climbing are long gone, thankfully.
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I completely agree, I am surprised at the amount of calories burnt, but two things; firstly, I have, i think a pretty quick heart rate both at rest but particularly when exercising. It's not uncommon during fell races for me to average over 175 and to peak at around 190. I know the 220 minus age is junk but still, for a reasonably fit 40 year old, thats still pretty high.
If you also look at the log, I am resting no more than about 2 minutes between each attempt, which again I think is reasonably short. In part this is because I tend to climb there on my own so not working problems with a group.
You are right though, compared to proper aerobic exercise, climbing can be (for me at least) pretty sedentary.
Thanks for putting sharing this info. I won't claim that i burn the same calories per hour as you, but by the description of that workout, your age etc I could use these results as a very rough guide to an amount I could be burning per hour.
I might have to invest in or find a pal that has one of these devices.
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No problem, if you do end up buying make sure you get one which gives you details HRM data back, i.e. a full log and not just an average. my first one i bought whilst giving you real time (on your wrist) HR data, didn't log it as such, it just gave the average and peak at the end of the session, so not that helpful. Though, if all you want is that and it to give a calorie burn estimate, then they certainly work out a lot cheaper. I had the Suunto M5 I think for that, found it on offer at Go Outdoors at the time.
Finally, if you want to make comparative estimates, weight also plays a big factor, I am currently around 11st 6, so that may help hone your guesswork.
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We could be 'very nearly the same weight' twins.
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We could be 'very nearly the same weight' twins.
that's only my weight when I cut back on the pizza and wine (which is at the moment thankfully) :)