It appears that there is no conformation from anyone if this was ticked or not. I presume they are keeping it secret for the big unveil later in the year.
I have however heard that due respect was not given to this important climbing artifact and that the crux has been completely ruined by the use of knee pads. More evidence of this activity appeared today on a blog and twitter feeds.
Surely this is just wrong, the crux of Hubble should not be done with a fucking knee bar, pad or no pad. >:( >:( >:(
any link for this?
I have however heard that due respect was not given to this important climbing artifact and that the crux has been completely ruined by the use of knee pads. More evidence of this activity appeared today on a blog and twitter feeds.
Links for the blog and tweets anyone?
But you're missing the point of shoes are going to get better they're not a new addition. Joe bloggs walks around in shoes, kids start climbing in shoes, no one walks around wearing knee pads. Knee pads are new and completely arbitrary, there'll be elbow pads next. Though that's all we'll get to luckily.
Knee pads are fine to use, so don’t let anyone tell you it's stupid or unethical. I am a firm believer they are part of the Future, and do no one harm, just protect the precious skin on top of your knee. (http://www.climbing.com/climber/dave-graham-pro-blog-15/)
I don't recognise any ascents of Brown & Whillans -era routes donein sticky rubberwith chalkwearing tape gloves.
But you're missing the point of shoes are going to get better they're not a new addition. Joe bloggs walks around in shoes...
As for Hubble I think it would be a shame if someone kneebarred it.
As for Hubble I think it would be a shame if someone kneebarred it.
Why? Its their choice, not yours. If you want to have a go sans kneebar thats your choice and no one would begrudge you doing so.
As long as they're not damaging the rock trying to tell others how they should or shouldn't climb seems a bit silly to me. :shrug:
Their choice but I'm allowed to say I think it's a shame. For Reasons Gavs just posted above.
Yes you are, but I don't understand why you and Gav think its a shame, as JB has written the rock is still there unchanged
It has taken the shine off the problem for other contenders like Danny and Pete thoughI genuinely do think it's a pity if me doing it with a newschool and morpho sequence/approach has detracted from someone else's experience with the problem. But I'm not going to change my climbing style to make other people happy. Pissing people off on the internet, on the other hand, is brilliant, and I can only hope to one day desecrate Hubble in the most disgusting way possible.
I dont give a shit about the one on mecca, i would have happily tried to use it myself if i had known about it, or any of the others that have changed problems[..] but this is Hubble FFS. Its not a great route, not a great line, not great rock on not a great crag but is series of moves that inspired a lot of people with one in particular that has now been ruined.
Rules belong indoors.+1. Or at least on something quite openly accepted as being absurd, a bit crap and utterly pointless - if still fun - like pinches wall.
Jeez, we've had this before. Ruined is ridiculous. It's still there, unchanged. What about no toehooking? No thumbs? Compulsory two-pounds of dreads? Rules belong indoors.
What would we say if my 6'8" mate (with a +3 ape index) yarded past the moves, that it was only 7c+ what bollocks, we'd say 'well he lanked that'!
This is why its comparable to the heel-spur example. Why not wear heel-spurs in rock climbing? Heel-hooks exist on loads of routes, just as do knee-bars. Some heel-hooks are rubbish, but they'd be bomber with a little hook attached to your shoe - so why not attach a little hook? They'd make some pumpy routes a piece of piss and probably reduce the grade. How about all those juggy endurance romps - I suggest if you got the design right you could just bat hang from hooks all the way up them.
Abarro81, you're right, what you do has no relevance to other people's enjoyment, what a load of fucking nonsense this 'it's spoiled the route' is,
Its unfortunate but climbing a hard testpiece in a style like this can affect someone else's motivation. Danny on Pilgrimage: "proper took the shine off it for me, used to be a life tick but i'm not arsed anymore".
This is a crackin load of waffle for an unclimb.
Abarro81, you're right, what you do has no relevance to other people's enjoyment, what a load of fucking nonsense this 'it's spoiled the route' is,
Its unfortunate but climbing a hard testpiece in a style like this can affect someone else's motivation. Danny on Pilgrimage: "proper took the shine off it for me, used to be a life tick but i'm not arsed anymore". Barrows used some extra rubber and a different approach, which was impressive in a different way but unfortunately it has affected the aura and challenge of the climb for those who have been trying it for years. Like i say unfortunate, i don't begrudge Barrows climbing it. Still a meaty effort.
. And surely the bigger issue with Barrow's ascent is that he used an entirely different sequence, which is morpho, to leave the junction with Lou Ferrino? Doing the undercut match is the only way for stumps and makes a much bigger difference than some knee scums here and there.
We're in danger of missing the real issue here; that Sloper mistook Sean Myles for Jason Myres.
It's a fucking disgrace.
Gav - out of interest does everyone agree this is the crux of Hubble?
Where is this rule about 'friction' over 'mechanical', and what does it say about about hooking edges on knee-pads?In the same place as the rule that says you dont get the tick for walking round the back or up a ladder. I think it's called The Collins Guide to the Bleedin Obvious.
The stuff in the cave doesn't really bother me either, its pretty much a climbing wall anyway, but i just think it would be a great shame if what was perhaps the quintessential move on the quintessential route of the 90s was eliminated by a kneebar, especially as it would appear to be only possible by using a piece of equipment not available at the time. I am not saying you can do it but to me it just wouldn't be the same.
I may be looking at it through rose tinted specs but that move and that route was the driving force behind a lot of peoples lives and has a special place in the minds of anyone climbing at the time. It would not be nice to see it reduced to something that a lot of people could do if they had strongish calves and a piece of rubber.
That move should only be available for the people who have the strongest fingers. Simple as that.
And Alex i gave up the crack some years ago and there is know way you will ever convince me that the crux of Hubble is a better, cooler move when it involves the use of knees. I was taught that you should never use them the very first day i climbed at scouts.
Dont confuse easier and more efficient with better.
It's a damn shame the worlds first 9a may now not be so
QuoteIt's a damn shame the worlds first 9a may now not be so
It was 8c+ until last year, get a grip!!!
Anyways - who's next in line to try it in a haze of publicity? Dave Graham?
QuoteIt's a damn shame the worlds first 9a may now not be soIt was 8c+ until last year, get a grip!!!
Anyways - who's next in line to try it in a haze of publicity? Dave Graham?
The stuff in the cave doesn't really bother me either, its pretty much a climbing wall anyway, but i just think it would be a great shame if what was perhaps the quintessential move on the quintessential route of the 90s was eliminated by a kneebar, especially as it would appear to be only possible by using a piece of equipment not available at the time. I am not saying you can do it but to me it just wouldn't be the same.
I may be looking at it through rose tinted specs but that move and that route was the driving force behind a lot of peoples lives and has a special place in the minds of anyone climbing at the time. It would not be nice to see it reduced to something that a lot of people could do if they had strongish calves and a piece of rubber.
That move should only be available for the people who have the strongest fingers. Simple as that.
And Alex i gave up the crack some years ago and there is know way you will ever convince me that the crux of Hubble is a better, cooler move when it involves the use of knees. I was taught that you should never use them the very first day i climbed at scouts.
Dont confuse easier and more efficient with better.
Dismiss Parisella's as just a climbing wall if you like (as if Raven Tor was some grand crag and not just a similarly dusty, polished chunk of lime) but Pilgrimage is an historically important line too, perhaps not quite up there with Hubble, but certainly a very significant landmark in the history of Welsh climbing.
Apart from this unfortunate sneer I agree with you. Pilgrimage hasn't changed, but the way people feel about it has. The same would happen to Hubble if its difficulty could be reduced by the use of a rubber pad.
But you're missing the point of shoes are going to get better they're not a new addition. Joe bloggs walks around in shoes, kids start climbing in shoes, no one walks around wearing knee pads. Knee pads are new and completely arbitrary, there'll be elbow pads next. Though that's all we'll get to luckily.
As for you Barrows, no caller of the lime can desecrate my beloved Pinches wall, verbally or with points of aid! As a previous caller I envoke a little known rule and retract your ascent of The Bearclaw from the record until you reascend without the pad :)
.
Personally I think it's a real shame but obviously it in no way invalidates an ascent. I wonder if it was a left or right kneebar? My guess would be this would suit only very short powerful legs. Does it make the move 2% easier or does it make it a non move. This would have a dramatic effect on the end grade. Anyway from what I read this 9a route climbing, 8b+ bouldering, world cup podium finalist didn't do it in 3 days even with what might be a rendering of the crux to a 5c move. Must be pretty hard still?
Of course it's all progress and nothing each generation doesn't do to the previous, but from a time when hard climbs were few and far between and people whispered about a handful of hard moves dotted around the world that you could only read in magazines. This created a real mystique about routes and problems like The Dominator, La Surplomb de la Mee, Hubble etc etc. Most of these iconic moves have been desecrated by technique. Do you remember how hard Marc LeMenestrel tries on La Surplomb in The Realthing. This sequence was an immense move, I thought he was going to explode or just die on the spot. Only repeated by a half or dozen or so in 10 years and now it's reduced to a lowly 8a. I remember chatting to Ben about this some years ago and what maybe people put down to bad technique was more likely a case of a non internet world with literally 3 or 4 people operating at this level, respect for the method and less available technique then now.
"The grade doesn't matter, it could be 9a+, it could be 8b+ it's totally irrelevant. It's the name that matters - the Route and the Name is everything."
When someone actually climbs Hubble with a knee pad/bar will there be mass hari-kiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku)?At all, because all the ones who could be bothered by that ascent, won't be bothered by that ascent.
When someone actually climbs Hubble with a knee pad/bar will there be mass hari-kiri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku)?
Does it mean that no ascents of Indian Face are valid because they all wore 5.10 sticky rubber?
Its just a shame that Johnny Brown doesn't feel the same, i had him down as the most sentimental of the lot of you. Must be a rock colour thing.
Its just a shame that Johnny Brown doesn't feel the same, i had him down as the most sentimental of the lot of you. Must be a rock colour thing.
Not rock colour, its the old skill vs strength argument, and I'm on the side of skill every time. Every time a better sequence is found on an old testpiece I rejoice - just goes to show that strength is quickly won and lost but technique is harder won, and a gift that keeps on giving. Rules are for schoolboys not ready for the real world.
Wierdly I have a quote (about Gav?, by Gav?) stuck in my head along the lines of "I've never forgiven him for using toe-hooks in the school, and now this...".
Sadly the context of this quote entirely escapes me and I've no idea who said it about whom, and what they did that could possibly be worse than toe-hooking in the school...
Gav - out of interest does everyone agree this is the crux of Hubble? This move, and the next are pretty much the only two I can do...
No-one's actually done Hubble with a knee bar yet. And the route does't just boil down to one move - I used to be able to quite comfortably static the undercut move, but found climbing into the position really hard.
RicH Heap used to be able to do the match static but struggled on the next crux, I was the opposite. And even if you could do both you mightn't be able to hold the terrible sloper or do the foot moves between them.
Any better?
Yack. Shades, colour matched trousers and t-shirt, no left boot - a proper yankee cheesewhip. Like the kneebar though.Indeed but see the look of amazement on his accomplices face :o
Technically it's good news though FD as nobody has managed Hubble with the knee bar and the Millstone bolt has already been chopped. :beer2:
I always thought that the controversy about using knee pads would disappear as soon as Moon release a kneepad and made them acceptable. It would be funny if a Moon kneepad made Hubble easier.
I would like to know in how many hours McColl didn't do Hubble. :tease:
I suggested this (not Hubble specific) and was told it was probably best left to boot manufacturers.
My Flickr account was deleted a few years back which is why the pictures aren't there anymore... I found a load more the other week so will scan and upload sometime.
Knee pads on Hubble...and bolts on the Keyhole Cave. Pfffft! Glad I live in London and don't have to talk about it at the crag or in the pub.
I want to be there when you pitch the idea of the "Hubble Downgrader" to Ben
My Flickr account was deleted a few years back which is why the pictures aren't there anymore... I found a load more the other week so will scan and upload sometime.I'm here to remind you your duties.