UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: Aussiegav on October 12, 2021, 11:46:30 am
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Just interested in seeing what people think is the maximum acceptable time to be on a route working it. ie; how long are you prepared to belay someone for before thinking they’ve had enough time.
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Specifically working a route, rather than a big traddy adventurous on-sight?
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If you're swapping leads with someone else then they are going to get cold and loose the benefit of their warm-up after about 45 mins (more or less depending on temps, wind, age etc).
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Depends if it's twatting freezing or not :???:
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It depends if they’re being nice about it or not and whether they’re patient in return. I’ll belay people for ages if they’re happy to return the favour.
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After about half an hour I'm usually suggesting they would gain more from coming down and getting a rest before going up for another go...
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Working a sport route up to an hour if it's not baltic. (exceptional routes aside)
I'm v.slow to warm up but also slow to cool down, be different for folk who cool down faster.
I did climb with someone once who expected 2 hour belays, generally ignored requests to shorten it, and then had a proper strop the day I timed it and made sure we were even over the day.
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As long as necessary with prior agreement. I'd be pissed off if someone suggested they were going for a quick RP and then engaged in a protracted dogging session.
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As said above there are a lot of factors at play. If it was obvious that a partner was going for a big trad lead then over an hour is acceptable but if I’m getting cold belaying at the bottom of a short sport route then I might ask they come down after 20 mins.
Factors like the weather, time constraints, tide coming in etc play a part. If it’s getting dark then you might remind someone to hurry up so you can get your go in.
If one of the team is on redpoint on a short route and the other dogging a long route for the first time it might make sense to agree to get two redpoint goes in before they go on their dogging mission. One of the great things at Malham is the level of communication, swapping partners and sharing ropes so everyone gets a decent day.
In general as long there is good communication about intentions and an element of reciprocity (not even necessarily on the same day) then I don’t get miffed. I tend not to keep a track of time when belaying - think hours spent hitch hiking taught me that. However, if I find that someone takes overly long and is selfish in other ways I’ll avoid climbing with them.
If they don’t do it naturally I ask that people clip in when dogging rather than resting on the rope as I can get a sore back otherwise. Things like that make a big difference on a long belay.
Having written all that I hope I do the same :lol:
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TBH Shark when I last climbed with you, once you'd fixed your rope you tied it off to a nearby tree and kept yourself entertained for the remainder of the day with a jumar.
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One time in Spain one particular climber claimed they were just going to warm up on the first few bolts of a route. However, he or she managed to get through the crux and on to jugs halway up the route. The jugs were too big to fall off but they were too pumped to continue. Some leeway was given as it would have been a significant onsight for this particular climber. However, after an hour of shuffling up and down, a substitute belayer had to be brought in to take over for the next hour. They eventually fell off higher up the route and were pumped for 2 days! You know who you are ;)
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I remember some advice somewhere being that on a really col day, rather than swapping goes and having to warm up each time, split the session in two, so you each get to have a short dogging go, then a short rest, then back on X 3 or 4, without cooling down too much. Obviously takes longer though.
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As above, depends hugely on temps, route style/length, whether I need a 20min rest or a 4 hr rest before going again, how much light is left etc etc. Main thing is communication/alignment with partners
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I can’t help thinking there is an interesting story behind the OP’s question….
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I can’t help thinking there is an interesting story behind the OP’s question….
And maybe a story from the (currently) 1 person who voted that they wouldn't belay anyone for more than 15 mins :lol:
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And maybe a story from the (currently) 1 person who voted that they wouldn't belay anyone for more than 15 mins :lol:
An out and out boulderer who might not even own a harness maybe
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15 - 20 yrs if it's a route worth doing...
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I spent the whole day belaying Craig Smith on the first ascent of L'Obsession, but got my revenge the next day when I spent well over three hours onsighting Contraflow at Kilnsey.
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I spent the whole day belaying Craig Smith on the first ascent of L'Obsession
Bloody hell, he must climb even slower than Shark :o
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I spent the whole day belaying Craig Smith on the first ascent of L'Obsession, but got my revenge the next day when I spent well over three hours onsighting Contraflow at Kilnsey.
Did you stop for a picnic and drink on route. :alky:
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I can’t help thinking there is an interesting story behind the OP’s question….
I often feel guilty that I’m spending too much time on the route and denying my belayer their climbing time. Also it prevents me trying harder routes because I think anything longer than 20mins is not fair.
So I’m asking for a consensus for the wider collective. Thanks for the responses. Definitely some good advice about clearer communication
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20 min? That's nothing! On a long (e.g. 30-50m) route for a working go I would expect 45min for a relatively fast go and up to 1.30 for a big go. Obviously if you're going to be up there for that kind of time the belayer needs to know in advance and needs to be on board!
On the whole on short routes it makes sense to have lots of shorter goes (I'd be pissed to belay for an hr on a 15m route!!), but on long things 20min might be barely enough to get to the bit you want to work on if you're working on the top part! So I find fewer goes but long goes makes much more sense on long routes. Best if your partner is working a long route too (as they'll need long rests after their big goes). Also best to start with a shorter go each as waiting ages for first go of the day is a pain, but waiting when you need a rest anyway is fine. This also works better logistically (in terms of energy). If your partner is on a short route you may need to have a couple of short goes then wait until they're done and have a huge working go at the end of the day when they're not going to climb again anyway... This last part obviously works best if they don't have kids or similar to rush home for! Also helps to have a forgiving/understanding partner...
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The amount of acceptable time on a route is zero, you should be bouldering like a respectable person
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I can’t help thinking there is an interesting story behind the OP’s question….
I often feel guilty that I’m spending too much time on the route and denying my belayer their climbing time. Also it prevents me trying harder routes because I think anything longer than 20mins is not fair.
So I’m asking for a consensus for the wider collective. Thanks for the responses. Definitely some good advice about clearer communication
If you came down off a working go on a route after 20 minutes I'd send you back up as there's no way I'd be ready for my next go!
But yeah as others have said, it's highly situational and requires good communication.
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kept yourself entertained for the remainder of the day with a jumar.
What, sitting under the tree playing with it?
I belayed a mate on Rock Idol and he was in the rest under the overlap long enough for the tide to come up to my thighs, he clipped to the gear (but didn't weight it) while I scrambled up onto the higher boulder. Got him back on belay and he committed to the overlap and promptly fell off. By the time he got to the top the sea was back to knee height again.
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And maybe a story from the (currently) 1 person who voted that they wouldn't belay anyone for more than 15 mins :lol:
that was me, I've never been into working routes and haven't ever done the type of long endurance routes that take that long to climb. + what Wellsy said, if I want to climb on something I can't do I'd much rather go bouldering.
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My favourite belayer comment directed at a mate who took a particularly long shakeout (at least 20 min): 'This is like going fishing'. :lol:
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And maybe a story from the (currently) 1 person who voted that they wouldn't belay anyone for more than 15 mins :lol:
that was me, I've never been into working routes and haven't ever done the type of long endurance routes that take that long to climb. + what Wellsy said, if I want to climb on something I can't do I'd much rather go bouldering.
Is that 15 minutes at a time, or cumulatively? As in a lifetime cap on belaying, you would never belay someone for longer than 15 minutes ever.
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With some partners 15 minutes has felt like a lifetime
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You been climbing with Will Hunt?
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He said 15 minutes, not 15 seconds.
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My favourite belayer comment directed at a mate who took a particularly long shakeout (at least 20 min): 'This is like going fishing'. :lol:
I was dogging a route in Tonsai, which pretty much starts from a cafe veranda, when eventually my belayer calmly said to me “Come on down now, you are embarrassing both me and you”
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My favourite belayer comment directed at a mate who took a particularly long shakeout (at least 20 min): 'This is like going fishing'. :lol:
I was dogging a route in Tonsai, which pretty much starts from a cafe veranda, when eventually my belayer calmly said to me “Come on down now, you are embarrassing both me and you”
It's a beach in Thailand full of hairdressers and hippies throwing firey sticks about!
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I was once climbing at the same crag as an American couple, the fella was on an onsight for >1 hour, his belayer suddenly asked very urgently for me to take over belaying while he was in a knee bar, which I did, whereupon she sprinted full tilt off behind the nearest bush to ahem, deal with the consequences of having eaten at a cheap taverna the night before. Fortunately he did onsight it ok, although he was a bit surprised that his belayer had changed nationality and gender.
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Personally I’m getting pretty bored after any more than 45 mins belaying a dogging go on a sports route.
I can’t see how anyone can impose a limit on trad leads though. On big adventure pitches I have frequently been more than 2 hours on the lead - including it getting dark and/or the tide coming in on my belayer.
I think it’s my regular climbing partner’s willingness to put up with this without complaint that is a major factor in us climbing together for several years.
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My favourite belayer comment directed at a mate who took a particularly long shakeout (at least 20 min): 'This is like going fishing'. :lol:
That is a great one!
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A bump. Just to get some more views from folks.
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Depends on the temperature to some degree. 40 mins belaying before your Redpoint is just about manageable- unless it’s freezing cold, in which case your burn will be ruined. No hard and fast tule really, but you need to be fair to your partner.