UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: Bonjoy on October 28, 2008, 10:00:53 am
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http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4755/climbing/gritlist/gritlist.html (http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4755/climbing/gritlist/gritlist.html)
Not much to it, but what a great site! Such a shame it hasn’t had any updates since ’03! What could be better for obsessive route baggers than a list of potential objectives with pithy soundbites, critical beta (not a place to look if you are an onsight purist) and subdivision into categories of fearfulness?
Here’s my idea. Seeing as the list is very incomplete, can anyone who has done any off the list grit routes of E5 or above put a gritlist style summary on this thread, complete with gear beta and a guess at a French grade.
I know onsighting is the gold standard, but for mortals like myself there are a whole load of routes on the edge of my comfort zone which I will just never go on without that little extra comfort of knowing there’s a hidden jug in the break or a bomber ballnut 2 at the end of the runout. These are routes which are too safe/easy to headpoint, but maybe too much of a big unknown to want to push the boat out on totally onsight.
Don’t be shy now. I know some folk on here have got shit loads they could add. Think of it as a charitable act, allowing cowards like myself to push their tiny boats (coracles?) out a little bit further.
I’ll kick things off with what little I can. Most of the stuff I’ve climbed is already on the gritlist, the main exceptions being FAs, so please excuse me seeming to big my own routes up. All of these are either in the safe and technical or safe and sustained ranges:
Apple Tree E5 6c – Rowtor
Bouldery rib coming out of My Apple. Not much higher than MA but with the crux right at the top. Good RP4 just high enough. Tricky but safe to get stood up at the lip, then a bold lurch for the top and a roundy finish. A bit spoiled by the close proximity of the tree. F7a
Beyond the Forbidden Forest E5 6b – eatswood
Excellent climbing up a curved bulge. Safe, but crucial cam is hard to place. Bomber gear in break (place to right to direct fall into clear space), big stretch to a distant eye F0.5 or other small cam, hard to place. Tricky hand swap then crux rib via rugosite and pocket. F6c+
Monster Monster E5 6b – eatswood
Safe and bouldery. Roof direct start to E1. Good ballnut 1 + 2 on the right protect dynamic crux to good hold on the lip. Has been bouldered out. F6c+
Right Between the Eyes E5 6b – Turning StoneSequencey wall climbing after a steep start. Good low gear on either side of the chimney. Big move left then right then left. Hard climbing over fairly quickly, then well protected and easy to the top. F6c+
The Inaccessible E5 6a – Ina’s Rock
Churnet, so technically sandstone not grit. Quality pumpy climbing with good gear. Up thrutchy E2 to ledge. Place big cams in upper half of E2. Step left lassoing low metal spikes then yard through the roof with good rock 6 and small friend in crack. The continuation is pumpy and well protected with small cams. Don’t pull on the wrong pebble! F6c
Thanks.
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I'm sure if you emailed Jon Read he would give you access to it. Would be a great thing to have on a wiki.
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It is still there.
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I meant give you access for updating, etc.
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Ah.
T'would be good to have a grit wiki.
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Sticking with the egomania of self-promotion:
Cold School Closure E5 6c - Rivelin Quarries
Desperate thin slab moves give a boulder problem start. Above is protected and easier, a commiting feeling balancy move top a big hold then relative romp to the top. The start can be by-passed with a running jump, but that's not climbing is it? Probably safe but hard category, flashing the start would be a good effort. But not sustained.
Michael Knight Wears A Chest Wig E7 6c - Wimberry
Solo, fairly low crux which is a big rockover. But the landing isn't great although a tied down spotter/mat combo would probably help. Move out to the arete and finish up the right side of this. Relatively easy climbing but feels fairly commiting and "out there". Can also finish up the wall at a similar standard. Safeish crux (with spotter/mat) but bold above.
That's My Lot
Balancy sequence up right side of arete until crux move to obvious arete hold. Hold the swing and romp up the left side to the top. Awful treestump landing, but not high. Lots of mats and spotters (and a bit of stump removal) could make this into a highball boulder problem.
Sorry no sport grades as I don't know how they work. I'll come back with some more in a bit.
Also agree with SA Chris.
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Good stuff. what's the gear in CSC?
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I'm pretty sure there's a peg which would protect the balancy move, and probably some other stuff near the top. Unfortunately I soloed it so the gear aspect was never fully explored, sorry.
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Is CSC the thing to the right of Flex or am I imagining things?
Edit: Ignore that I've looked it up now, and its clearly not what i thought it was.
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Don't Slip Now E5 6a? - Curbar
The worst landing ever, if you stuff this one up it's going to hurt a lot. Only one move though, and it's a fairly easy move at that. The rest of it is a romp. Easier climbing than the slabs just accross the way at Froggatt but worse landing.
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Don't Slip Now E5 6a? - Curbar
Where's the hard bit supposed to be on this? Going up the slab and traversing left seemed fine but then going up the sloping breaks to the ledge seemed to be the hard bit.
I've got a 'grit list' style beta-list of stacks of routes I've looked which could probably be uploaded onto a wiki. I can't be arsed to copy it out here though (I think it's at least 30 pages).
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El Vino Collapso
Ditch the pads and go for the onsight, you'll be fine.
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I remember the hard bit as being one move up to a good hand hold. Think there was a good foothold quite far out left and then rock onto that to reach up. It's a long time ago now but I remember it felt very much easier than the Froggatt great slab E5's.
Sorry I'm not very good at this am I?
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It would be very easy to start a wiki, if that's what people would find helpful.
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How does one go about it?
Use something like wetpaint.com? Could even complete numpty do it?
I could be tempted to do it, as I may as well do something useful whilst on t'internet...
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If people want I can set one up, then people can add stuff. Done it before so it shouldn't take too long.
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Good thread.
I remember the old grit list but could never understand why these were missed?
Earthboots E7 7a *** Rivelin Quarries - Very safe but very hard. French 7c/+? Boulder across to the slot and two good friend 0.5s, then crux moves gain the pocket in the middle of the wall - bomber rock 3. Try not to blow it moving up left to the finish. 1 repeat ground up with 3 pads?
Placid house E6 6c ** Wyming Brook - Powerful undercutting crux from the break (hex 1 and two rock 3's) lead to an easier though deckable top wall.
That's cool by me E6 6b ** Shining cliff - Friends 1 and 1.5 in the low break and two rp1s and a slider 1 in the peghole protect this frightener. Easy climbing really but a high slap from a pebble concentrate the mind.
Lost World E6 6c *** Carl Wark - Stunning and well protected climbing. Rock 7 and friend 0.5 with opposition rock 1 and 2 in the break. Commit to one of the best sequences on grit.
Wooley jumper E6 6b ** Rivelin - Pm me if you want to borrow the key filed down small hex for the pocket, or man up like Grimer for some serious exposure for such a short climb. Would make a great boulder problem!
Obviously I climbed all of these before the benefit of pads, and in the days of primitive gear. I don't know about apportioning french grades either - Grit routes can't really be shoehorned into sports grades imho.
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http://gritlist.wetpaint.com/ (http://gritlist.wetpaint.com/)
There we go. I'll try to get the basic structure done tonight.
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Some yorkshire knowledge would be useful - anyone tackled the classic 6/7/8's at Hawkcliffe?
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I thought Readza's site was brilliant. It was very simple, and worked really easily. What i really liked about it was that it was all his opinion, and you could learn to trust it, and it was very free from ego. I imagine Readza's entry for Thumbalina: Thumbalina Safe but Scary E6 - Opinions vary on the grade, thought by some to be a 7a boulder problem. No 3 rock'n'roller, .75 ballnut and 1.27 crack 'n' up in thin break at 6m give some protection.
I've always found Wikis, great ideas as they are, harder to get on with, and, heresay to the 'community generation', but the breadth of opinions makes it harder to put faith in it.
All hail the grit list, a simple idea brilliantly done :beer2:
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That's cool by me E6 6b ** Shining cliff - Friends 1 and 1.5 in the low break and two rp1s and a slider 1 in the peghole protect this frightener. Easy climbing really but a high slap from a pebble concentrate the mind.
I would definitely dispute that having checked out the same so-called "runner placements" for the E2 that goes leftwards, lol!! Bonjoy didn't you say this was hard possibly 6c??
Anyway.
Errr. Good thread. I have nothing to contribute except that The Knock isn't E5, even without pads.
Don't all routes contain a bomber Ballnut 2 at the end of a long run out??
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Good effort Gareth. I take Grimer's points onboard but it seems unlikely that Jon will keep updating the gritlist - this could be a useful substitute. Can we import the gritlist into this wiki and is it strictly grit or is some sandstone (e.g. Cheshire, where I would obviously like to encourage more action) allowable?
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I've stuck the grit E5s onto the wiki.
yes, it's a C&P effort, but it's to get an idea of how this should work. unless Readza agrees, I don't want to steal all of his hard work.
Do people want pages for different levels of seriousness? Areas?
Andy, I can't see why it can't be a list of all hard routes in the UK at the end of the day.
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I've made a v. limited start - Gareth feel free to edit me to get a common format. I'll ask Jon, we're now colleagues. I kind of like the idea of it being a bit focussed; grit and sandstone go together well.
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might be easiest to arrange each grade by area rather than the 'safe and sustained' etc headings - too hard to agree on which category for routes! Or do it by
> region > crags
then divide the crags into grades... my vote would go for this second option. Most of the stuff I've done is on the gritlist, i'll have a little look through my logbook and add for things I haven't.
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I'd agree with the areas ting.
If Readza is OK with it, I can steal update his site in the wiki.
No rush. Ideas people!
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Is it possible to make people 'tag' their comments or something so you can see who gave what info about a route?
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It's logged in the page edit.
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I've stuck the E6s up as per region. See what the opinion is.
I'll see what Mr Read says about all this before doing anything else.
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Good work GCW.
I'd agree with keeping it focussed for the time being. Overambition has been the death of many a good internet idea. Keeping it grit and sandstone and >E5, at least for the moment seems the best way to go. Also agree with that it's quite important people should put their name to additions.
Like Grimer says, the good thing about the original was the lack of ego in the descriptions. Keep it helpful and objective, with as much useful info as you have. So far I'd say UTG's are a good example of how to do it and Paz's (sorry Paz) of how not to do it.
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That's cool by me E6 6b ** Shining cliff - Friends 1 and 1.5 in the low break and two rp1s and a slider 1 in the peghole protect this frightener. Easy climbing really but a high slap from a pebble concentrate the mind.
I would definitely dispute that having checked out the same so-called "runner placements" for the E2 that goes leftwards, lol!! Bonjoy didn't you say this was hard possibly 6c??
The context of this was me justifying downgrading the E3 on the left to E2. You asked, how can the LH route only be E2 if the only slightly higher route to the right is E6. I still stand by the two grades. I do remember the higher (the good lower gear is too low to be of much help) gear being log. The comment on the tech grade was possibly bad memory or exageration for the sake of the point. Take Andy's word over mine, he's got a better memory (and logbook) than me.
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How do you add another row to the middle or the end of a table in the list?
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Just remembered something about the original list. The routes are ordered from easiest to hardest within a category. So anyone adding stuff should try to slot it in where they think most appropriate.
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I've sent Jon an email, I'll post when I get a response.
I had similar questions about formatting, it'll probably be a bit willy-nilly at first but hopefully some order will emerge.
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That's cool by me E6 6b ** Shining cliff - Friends 1 and 1.5 in the low break and two rp1s and a slider 1 in the peghole protect this frightener. Easy climbing really but a high slap from a pebble concentrate the mind.
I would definitely dispute that having checked out the same so-called "runner placements" for the E2 that goes leftwards, lol!! Bonjoy didn't you say this was hard possibly 6c??
The context of this was me justifying downgrading the E3 on the left to E2. You asked, how can the LH route only be E2 if the only slightly higher route to the right is E6. I still stand by the two grades. I do remember the higher (the good lower gear is too low to be of much help) gear being log. The comment on the tech grade was possibly bad memory or exageration for the sake of the point. Take Andy's word over mine, he's got a better memory (and logbook) than me.
The E2 has great holds and relatively obvious climbing, wheres the E6 has poor holds and a slap for the crag top. The runners mentioned are very poor - you really wouldn't want to fall off it - I could rip them with a sharp tug. I remember Richie saying it was E5 climbing with E6 gear and positions.
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Just had the following from Jon. I think he makes some really good points/suggestions.
"Having the grit list as a wiki is a brilliant idea. How can I refuse in the face of such flattery!
There's a couple of suggestions I'd like to add, perhaps I should start a thread on the wiki?
(1) It would be good to acknowledge everyone who helped originally somewhere on the site.
(2) I'm a strong believer in complete transparency, and would put forward the suggestion that users should be identified somewhere with their full name. They are responsible for their entries -- I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from contributing, but I do think people should be (wo)man enough to stand by what they write in public. This might prevent anonymous entries which just slag off routes (after all they're all worthy, who are we to judge?) or grades or styles, whatever. This may not even be a problem; who knows?
(3) separating by region is a good idea; it ended up being a bit unwieldy everything lumped together
(4) definitely include sandstone -- honorary grit, isn't it? Similar route, makes sense.
(5) would it be possible to have a few extra fields for routes?
- I think it would be good to start towards some consensus on how safe things are, perhaps on a new scale: Death, Crunch, Sprain, and Scratch ? Ability to vote would help, perhaps.
- Also whether multiple pads turn it into a highball (e.g. the new international boulder problem Thumbalina).
- Finally, some ability to comment on the best style ascended (rather than just "been on-sighted", would be useful to record the manner in which this was achieved, plundering Grimer's list would help?)
(6) It would be useful to decide some basic policies before everyone puts a load of effort in. Is move beta allowed? How much gear beta? Just the sizes of unusual pieces? (obviously, I have the market cornered for Rock'n'Roller sizes ...)
Cheers,
Jon."
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Nice to see the Gritlist getting a new lease of life, I always used to find it very inspiring when I was climbing a lot on gritstone.
Jon's points are all good, but especially about move beta. Describing whereabouts the crux move is isn't a big deal, but giving more detail than that could be.
I haven't really got a lot to add for the routes, except that I can confirm that this:
Don't Slip Now E5 6a? - Curbar
The worst landing ever, if you stuff this one up it's going to hurt a lot.
is painfully true, and that I am very lucky (I only broke 5 bones).
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Surely the point of it is the beta. It's serving a purpose that the guidebook doesn't.
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Surely the point of it is the beta. It's serving a purpose that the guidebook doesn't.
Gear beta - yes.
French grade - yes.
Being told the sequence - not too much.
I've always viewed the gritlist as a collection of information designed to tempt people into getting on E5+ routes, rather than a howto.
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Maybe some kind of reveal button? I think the idea of all the "hard grit" routes (including sandstone) in one easy access list is brilliant. I remember back in the day me and Dan spent hours (days?) trying to collate the information to build an uber-tick-list. If such a resource could be online and regularly updated it would be amazing. It would be very useful to on-sighters as much as beta-flashers and headpointers. Obviously if climb-by-numbers instructions are included then the very purest onsight is blown, however if there was an option to get say opinions and description instead of beta and gear placements this wouldn't be a problem.
Would it then just be an online selective guidebook? Maybe, but also so much more. And it wouldn't stop me buying guidebooks, after all I can't take the laptop to the bog with me for a good read can I? Well actually I can but the wife just thinks I'm going for a wank then.....
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Just a thought, but if your including Sandstone, does this mean Nesscliffe will be included. I have no real interest in the place it was just something that occurred to me.
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If Nescliffe is in, then how 'bout North Yorkshire Moors? If yes, then how about Northumberland? etc.
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Like any wiki it'll be as inclusive/exclusive as peoples additions make it.
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I really liked the way the Gritlist was (are we already talking about it in the past tense??) split by category rather than area, it was something different to the guides and also provided 3 graded lists per grade which is much better than one!
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Starting to get the hang of the editing now. Useful unobvious tip: right click on the end of previous entry to get ‘Add row’ option and use control+V to paste from word docs.
Have added some to E5 and E6. The ones I put on this thread plus Liquid Abs - E6 Black Rocks and Bad News For Slab Climbers - E5 Bauston Tor
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jon me and andi were talking about this the other week.but decided against it as we dont/cant be arsed to go all over the place.we then mentioned doing a staffs hard grit list as between us we could russlte something up about most of the e5 plus routes.i set up a site but thats it.i'm not too good on comps so got bored with it.
anway back to bonjoy's topic
soul survivor,stoneydale quarry E5 6b
climb the square cut arete on the right but watch the rusty pegs(have been tested)good friends protect.f6c
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If people preferred this could be done just as text rather than a table? And splitting into seriousness groups etc is a possibility.
Thoughts on format greatly welcomed... Please!!!!!
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I'd certainly go along with the thinking of keeping the format based around safety category/route character rather than by area. Having studied the grit list for hours over the past few years it's certainly been inspiring and probably got me to places and on routes I otherwise wouldn't have. I reckon this is largely due to the format - it's different from a guide book. It's cool to see routes from different areas getting compared in the same list, take pink pages for example...
As a lover of lists, french grades for trad routes (even short grit ones) and Readza's written steaze I hope this works out!
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Palomides
My legs have often gone numb reading UKB on my Ipod touch whilst sat on the throne. I can imagine a not too distant future of Iphones and other devices actively used at the crag.
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I know there has been a lot of debate on this, for and against, and how it may or may not be applicable, but adding a suggested rough font grade or even french grade may add something......
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If people preferred this could be done just as text rather than a table? And splitting into seriousness groups etc is a possibility.
Thoughts on format greatly welcomed... Please!!!!!
I'd prefer it just text, I've just put a few bits in and found it quite difficult (I am a computer moron though).
I think it's great though.
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Right, Readza has done a table template for pages. It includes a danger rating and a best style column. I've added pages in this style for most grades.
Over time, I'll convert tables and the info on the Grit List . In the meantime, please add info to the appropriate region and grade in teh new table format. if you need to add a row, click "easy edit" then right click on the table and select "add row". Even AndiT can do it :lol:
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what happens if you disagree with something? Eg i see Entropy's Jaw is 3/4 suggesting it's very safe. I thought this was scary, much more so than Art Nouveau, and the fall off this would be bad. Can people really get rps in on the on-sight?
and do we get to see who has made the comments?
Good effort doing all this, by the way
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I guess this is the main issue with it being a wiki rather than one person's site - if someone disagrees with a french grade/danger rating maybe they should put they're opinion and put their name by it?
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I'd suggest you add a comment with your name if you don't agree with something.
Peak E5s now converted to the new table.
I've made a start on Lancs E5 listings.
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If I know a route's been GUed or flashed but presume it may also have been onsighted shall I just add it as what I know and then those who know for sure of a better style can come along and write over my post?
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Also, is there any order for adding new routes at the moment, or shall I just put them at the bottom of the table and await the outcome of the 'how to arrange the tables' debate?
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Yeah, add any knowledge you may have. It's fine to have a GU and onsight info for the same route.
To be honest, this is all en experiment and we'll find out how it works later.
My head hurts :lol:
Also, is there any order for adding new routes at the moment, or shall I just put them at the bottom of the table and await the outcome of the 'how to arrange the tables' debate?
At present, if we use the seriousness column we may not need a specific order. But that can be changed later.
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I won't change anything as I know nowt about all this, but I just saw the entry for Sole Power.
Desperate slapping up a hanging arete, with your feet on nothing! Essentially an extended boulder problem, though many folk try top-roping it! Does not see many (any?) ascents. F7b+ (Now usually done as a highball boulder problem at font 7c)
Surely it can't be only F7b+ if it's font7C?
Good work GCW, by the way!
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I've made a start on Lancs E5 listings.
Let me know if you want a hand with that.
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Good work GCW.
Could we have/would people want a stickified link to the wiki?
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In the meantime, please add info to the appropriate region and grade in teh new table format. if you need to add a row, click "easy edit" then right click on the table and select "add row". Even AndiT can do it :lol:
You're right, I think I've put some stuff in! Hurray.
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For clarity could it be worth having a page for ex-E5s which have been, or are still given E5 in guides, but are generally reckoned not to be, either because they are too easy or only make sense as highballs? For example - too easy Morning Wood, National Power, Lazy Day; highballs - The Sphynx, Grizly Arete, Dry wit In a Wet country, Tierdrop.
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Alright Chaps, Mr How not to do it, and Mr What Not to wear here.
I'm a fine one to talk I know, but can I just point out that less is more?
Evn if it is way out of date I'd far rather read Jon's labour of love, The Grit List which was written with great wit, authority, but was still inspiring, and actually still left a lot to the imagination. Have a separate Nesscliffe and N York Moors section FFS.
On the UKC logbooks I see a number of `route descriptions' that basically read like a trip report `I climbed the crack to the break, and then turned around and looked at the marvellous view, and saw an interesting bird, and then I moved left and clipped some tat and carried on a bit and I topped out in a different place to the guidebook as a hold was dirty'. Only without my impeccable spelling and grammar.
I hope I'm speaking for the silent majority of the wide reading public and not from an ivory tower if I say: In an ideal world where everyone can write readably and only contributes worthwhile stuff, but knows when to STFU, then wiki's are great.
Even Nic's unter list, good as it was, was never The List. It was more of a good Grit list tribute band.
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I'm a fine one to talk I know, but can I just point out that less is more?
:lol:
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I've made a start on Lancs E5 listings.
Let me know if you want a hand with that.
Cheers Andy, any help is gratefully received. I'll bang names etc into the table to start with and people like yourself can fill in the details.
This could be a cool resource. Quite exciting really :dance1:
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Where does one find said table into which one bangs stuff?
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Whoever has updated the Peak E5s recently, you've wiped off all my additions! I'd re-add them myself, but i'm off in van for a few days now. The additions can be found here http://gritlist.wetpaint.com/account/Bonjoy/history (http://gritlist.wetpaint.com/account/Bonjoy/history) Does someone mind merging them into the new format? Thanks
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I'll try to sort it if I get a chance Jon.
Andy, go to the tabs on the left, click on a grade, then on the area when it comes up.
Any thoughts about including FA info and styles?
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Whoever has updated the Peak E5s recently, you've wiped off all my additions! I'd re-add them myself, but i'm off in van for a few days now. The additions can be found here http://gritlist.wetpaint.com/account/Bonjoy/history (http://gritlist.wetpaint.com/account/Bonjoy/history) Does someone mind merging them into the new format? Thanks
Yeah, I noticed some of yours had vanished. Wasn't me! I hope!
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Bonjoy, I think I've got all your stuff back in. Have a quick check.
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Cheers cap'n
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Black Magic details updated and new Cheshire E5 page added. Not sure if the knife qualifies for E5 with the tricam (which I reckon is solid). Please check the details, my opinions are likely to be hopelessly incorrect.
Also, in my idiocy I created a Cheshire E5 page that was wrong. Think I need mod powers to get rid. GCW could you delete the Cheshire E5 page and rename "E5 Cheshire new" to "E5 Cheshire", please?
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That page is quaddra-spazzed Will. I've copied the info to the Cheshire E5 page, so all we need to do is delete the Cheshire E5 New page. I can't at present, but I'll try again later.
EDIT: Sorted it now.
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On a lifeglug?
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I think I've listed all the Lancashire E5s and aboves, but I may have missed newer stuff. Can someone (Adam, Nik, Andy) check these please and add knowledge. Cheers.
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Re Mother's Pride ..."Links the 1st pitch of London Pride with its 'claimed' direct finish Which way now".
Can you take the 'claimed' bit out. I belayed Paul Evan's when he climbed "Which way up now Mr Rothko" so he did climb it as well as 'claim' it. Clearly he undergraded it at E46b which presumably aroused suspiscion. I asked him why he didnt do it from the ground (he abbed in) as it seemed pointless but he didnt think it necessary as London Pride was described in 2 pitches then.
Good work with the list.
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Sorted.
Simon, feel free to join and add your input. The more the merrier!
EDIT BMC Best Style of Ascents List (http://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcnews/media/u_content/file/guidebooks/information/gritstone%20onsights%201.pdf)
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The Peak E5s list only seems to include the first quarter of the original list plus new additions. Does anyone know how to bulk import the rest of the info off the original list?
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The way I was going it was to import it into word, separate out areas then gradually C+P it back into the wiki tables. there's probably an easier way, though.
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Ive just noticed this entry:
"Piece Of Mind E6 6b Lower Tier, Roaches Solo. Incredible pre-Fires route from the Woodward brothers in 1977! A tricky arete is followed to a committing step right and slopey finish. Johnny Dawes attempted to on-sight this route, jumped off and only sprained his ankle! Bad landing - nasty - but only one or two nasty moves. Rumoured to have a good Peanut 3 in the low crack, though I couldn't get it to stick, and it wouldn't protect the crux anyway. Has this been onsighted yet? F6c."
I thought the peanut was pretty good, and so it turned out to be when my foot slipped as i was reaching for the top. I touched the ground on rope stretch, so it does protect the crux.
Cheers, Si.
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I'd have thought that it's solo only for the full tick. Same for Obs Fat as well surely?
That placement looks a little bit manufactured, no?
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Just finished transferring all the E5s from the original Grit List and finished alphabetising them.
I'll carry on up the grades when I get a chance.
It's looking quite cool now :thumbsup:
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All of teh original Gritlist E6s have been transferred. They could do with alphabetising and the Yorkshire table needs re-formatting in line with the other pages. I'll get on it, but it could be while before I get time.
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Good work. I'll try and add some more but am also struggling with busyness.
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I've added some comments on the Lancs stuff, I'll do more when I remember which one's I've done/know about.
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Thanks everyone for their input.
Peak E5s- All imported, fully alphabetised
Yorks E5s- All Imported, fully alphabetised
Yorks E6s- All imported, fully alphabetised
Peak E6s- All imported, alphabetisationisation begun but not complete.
Getting there, slowly. :-[
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Thanks everyone for their input.
Getting there, slowly. :-[
Keep up the good work G.
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Is there some way to comment on each route below it? If I see some info I might disagree with of want to add to, is the only way to start a thread.
EG: from a quick glance, Entropy's Jaw - I said this before, but I thought this was really scary. Do people still fall off the top moves happily enough, or is this still an anecdotal fact from the 1980s? I thought it was a lot scarier than Art Nouveau.
Boys will be Boys, climbed ground up by Tom Briggs. Wasn't this above a huge snow drift, and either he or Steve Adams fell off and were fine? A big difference between this and doing it above that hard ground, and worth mentioning if this is a historical record.
As it stands, it is the opinions of a variety of commentators of differing abilities and attitudes. Would it be possible to sign the comments? As I said before, one of the beauties of the original was that they were all Jon's opinions, and from that basis you could learn to trust the opinions.
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As it stands, it is the opinions of a variety of commentators of differing abilities and attitudes. Would it be possible to sign the comments?
A good point and as good idea, a rare combination indeed.
It is possible to see what changes people have made, if you go to the recent updates bit and search around you will find who made the changes and what changes they made, so as long as people have a recognisable name you can see who is saying what. Obviously this take a bit of digging round the site to see, dunno if there is a way of bringing this information to the fore a bit more. Over to the G unit for the official answer....
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I always put "added by Bonjoy" after additions but I don't think other people do this.
If you look at the original site Grimer it does have a long list of contributors, so although it may have all been transcribed by Jon Read it was not all necessarily his opinions on routes.
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Work controls not that tight then Jon?
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Lunchtime window of opportunity yoot
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EG: from a quick glance, Entropy's Jaw - I said this before, but I thought this was really scary. Do people still fall off the top moves happily enough, or is this still an anecdotal fact from the 1980s? I thought it was a lot scarier than Art Nouveau.
I fell off the crux and slid down the slab onto an old S7 pad. I remember being surprised at my luck rather than scared and did it next go. It was the 1990s :-[
Boys will be Boys, climbed ground up by Tom Briggs. Wasn't this above a huge snow drift, and either he or Steve Adams fell off and were fine? A big difference between this and doing it above that hard ground, and worth mentioning if this is a historical record.
That's right. The reason we went to have a look at it that day was because it mentions a snow drift in the old guidebook. I went first and took one fall into the snow, Steve flashed it, then I did it next go. BWBB is surely very top end E6? Was the FA in fact done above snow and so perhaps that's why it's a bit of a sandbag sans snow?
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I fell off the top of EJ and sustained nothing more than extensive bilberry stains. That was the 1980s so obviously no pad (or spotter).
Tom, did the snow enable you to do BWBB ground up? I agree about it being top-end.
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Tom, did the snow enable you to do BWBB ground up? I agree about it being top-end.
For sure. It made it completely safe as I proved by pitching off the crux.
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No, I think from memory John Allen was stopped by a cornice at the top of BWBB.
Just think it would be nice to be able to put comments underneath. T_B and Andy are obviously a lot happier to fall off EJ than I was. I was sure I would damage myself. Just if this could be listed to show differences of opinions would deem useful.
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Well there is nothing to stop you (or anyone else) from adding a comment to any of the route descriptions and putting your name to the comment.
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I fell off the top of EJ and sustained nothing more than extensive bilberry stains. That was the 1980s so obviously no pad (or spotter).
Isn't there a wire on EJ? I'm sure I took a rope and an RP.
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I fell off the top of EJ and sustained nothing more than extensive bilberry stains. That was the 1980s so obviously no pad (or spotter).
Isn't there a wire on EJ? I'm sure I took a rope and an RP.
Indeed, but I don't think the placement had been found/unearthed yet. Andy Woodward had soloed it so that's what we did. The funniest incident on EJ was when Al Williams didn't fall off. Al is at the last move and is sketching. Me and Nick Dixon are kneeling on the top watching from a distance of about one foot - close enough to touch him. Al keeps repositioning his feet on the smears and squeezing the rugosities but its warm and he's getting nowhere. Al calls for help and Nick sticks out his hand, Al lunges and just manages to latch ... Nick's thumb. Miraculously, everything holds and Al pulls over. He did it the next go.
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Nice tale Andy.
I've done entropy's jaw loads of times, its steady for E5 i think, was one of my first at any rate, done after clubbing til 6, then catching the SCUM bus at 9. Defo easier than Art Nouveau and with a far more predictable landing. Have seen friends fall off without too much incident other than spotters getting knocked down the bank.
Yeah there are RPs, I think they have to be placed mid crux though.
Has BWBB had an ascent that didn't involve snow? Anyone know if Ross has done it?
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It's a funny one because it was always graded for the solo despite the fact that you can put gear in Wild Thing and that there is a runner near the top, albeit a poor one which is near impossible to place on lead and kind of after the difficulties or atleast mid move. I believe it can be placed from above prior to an ascent :whistle:
I 100% would not want to fall off the crux of it, I'm sure the ground must have been a touch higher, but it can't have made that much difference!
Great story Andy, I love that stuff.
Apparently Andy Woodward soloed Mirror Mirror as well, that must surely have been one of the hardest ascents on grit at the time?
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I 100% would not want to fall off the crux of it, I'm sure the ground must have been a touch higher, but it can't have made that much difference!
Apparently Andy Woodward soloed Mirror Mirror as well, that must surely have been one of the hardest ascents on grit at the time?
I just kind of ski-jumped off the lip (this isn't meant to imply any sort of control) and then bowled off down the hill. And was that not the less direct version of Mirror Mirror - skirting off right. This is how its described in the old Staffs guide (though the diagram confusingly also shows the direct through the arch)
JB, I've done BWBB without snow - tho' headpoint so that might not have been what you meant (v. light practice from an ab rope and again no pads or spotters). Jon Read has done it too.
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Apparently Andy Woodward soloed Mirror Mirror as well, that must surely have been one of the hardest ascents on grit at the time?
I just kind of ski-jumped off the lip (this isn't meant to imply any sort of control) and then bowled off down the hill. And was that not the less direct version of Mirror Mirror - skirting off right. This is how its described in the old Staffs guide (though the diagram confusingly also shows the direct through the arch)
[/quote]
Ah, Ski Jump, yes that'll work :lol:
What are your thoughts then on Mirror Mirror, do you reckon he actually climbed the line or was it just a badly drawn line which then became the route? It says that it was 'clearly chalked for some time after the ascent'....
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I've done BWBB too, just sussing the crux one evening and doing it next day after 1 TR. That's 'v. light practice' for me :)
Hey Andy, was that not Mark 'Face' Magowan who had a thumb?
Annnnnnnd......
Danny Brooks (anyone for him?) once told me he remembers seeing an old photo of Nick Dixon rollerskating down one of the classic Skyline slab routes. False, or only kinda false?
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Now you mention it, it could have been Mark's thumb, though I'm sure Nick was there. Al was there, I was there, it wasn't my thumb, everything else is up for grabs.
Were you there when I did BWBB and did I practice it more than I just claimed. I'm not sure about anything I think I remember any more.
I've never heard the rollercoasting story and frankly it sounds bullshit. I can confirm Al once took all his gear to the crag in an old suitcase. It made his arms ache.
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I met Nick at Ramshaw once, he had a large white plastic bag as his chalk bag, a ten foot wooden ladder under his arm and his brolly, which he was carrying open despite it not actually raining or even threatening to rain!
We did a route together called Creep or Leap that night, that was really special for me because it was the first time I'd met him and I actually got to climb a new route with someone who I heald in such high esteem. Part of the deal was that I had to use his plastic chalk bag on the ascent. That was one of the best ticks of my climbing career. Happy days.
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That was one of the best ticks of my climbing career.
So it's over then?!
Does somebody fancy doing a bit of a write up on Adrenaline Rush at Caley? Apparently the crux is "luck dependant" and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Also, the gear slot in the crack/groove apparently exploded. Is the crux, and indeed the upper slab, now protectable?
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Danny Brooks (anyone for him?)
I bumped into Danny at the Embankment early last year struggling to tie into his Petzl harness as he'd chopped off most of the waist strap to save a few grammes when he was a skinny wretch. He was sorely in need of those extra inches and I had to lend him mine for a go at Sturgeon.
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Does anyone have contact details for Danny?
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Does anyone have contact details for Danny?
Dense (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,9051.0/all.html)?
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Anyone tried copying and pasting from the tables when editing? I was going to organise the E6s alphabetically, as the others are, but it didn't seem to like copy and past when in the edit function. I'm not averse to a more labour intensive way of doing it, but thought I'd check I wasn't being a numpty first.
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You can copy and paste a row, which is how I was doing it. Pretty dull task I'm afraid.
Go into edit mode then highlight the route name but keep dragging right and it should highlight the row. Then right click for copy/paste.
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When I do that, it doesn't give me the option to copy and paste. It just provides a list of cell options. :shrug:
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Try control+C then control+V. I seem to remember it worked in firefox.
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That didn't work when I first tried, but does sporadically now. I don't think my computer likes the edit thing as it takes an age to do anything in it. I'll try it on the Uni network tomorrow.
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Anyone tried copying and pasting from the tables when editing? I was going to organise the E6s alphabetically, as the others are, but it didn't seem to like copy and past when in the edit function. I'm not averse to a more labour intensive way of doing it, but thought I'd check I wasn't being a numpty first.
If you've got Excel the best way to do it is as follows:
1. On the Toolbar click Data and then Import External Data.
2. Click New Web Query, the New Web Query dialog box now appears.
3. Cut and paste the URL of the site into the Address box at the top, click Go, the relevant web page should now appear in
the New Web Query dialog box.
4. Click on the yellow arrow immediately up and left of the table you wish to Import (on the E5 page this is the first one up and
left of Vanquished) and then click the Import button in the bottom right hand corner.
5. The Import Data dialogue box now appears, click New Worksheet and then OK. The data will now be imported into Excel.
I hope this hepls.
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I can't add a row in table either, is it a mac thing maybe? (I'm using firefox but it doesn't like it in Safari either)
is there another way to do it that doesn't involve right clicking?
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I can't add a row in table either, is it a mac thing maybe? (I'm using firefox but it doesn't like it in Safari either)
is there another way to do it that doesn't involve right clicking?
I'm no Mac expert, but isn't there a keyboard button that you press that then turns the mouse-click into a right-click?
Just :google: and found this (http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/why-apple-makes-a-one-buttoned-mouse-01280820/)
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No, it's not the lack of a mouse button. If I go into easy edit and cntrl-click the table I just get a list of spelling suggestions ('testes' for 'Beau Geste'!!), cut/copy options and a language option but no 'add new row' option.
>:(
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JB, I've done BWBB without snow - tho' headpoint so that might not have been what you meant (v. light practice from an ab rope and again no pads or spotters). Jon Read has done it too.
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Jon *just* did it, losing control of his foot mid-way through the crux. Unfortunately the snow drift was at the top, not the bottom. I was spotting at the bottom with the mobile phone, had dialled 999 and *nearly* pressed the green button. It was the worst day of my climbing career and it certainly felt E7 to me, on the ground.
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New Statesman seems to be in both the E9 and E8 lists. does somebody want to make an executive decision as to where it should live?
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If any of the info hasn't yet been reproduced from the original site, there's limited time remaining to move it over:
Yahoo announces closure of Geocities (http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/geocities/geocities-05.html)
If anyone knows Jon Read, perhaps they could let him know.
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If any of the info hasn't yet been reproduced from the original site, there's limited time remaining to move it over:
Yahoo announces closure of Geocities (http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/geocities/geocities-05.html)
If anyone knows Jon Read, perhaps they could let him know.
Wandering through my shit filled hard drive I came across the copy and pasting I did when I started the Wiki. I've attached it here (http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/mEsXLAaWtMV%24oYmIhsCX9Q%3D%3D790520), but if that doesn't work try the link at the bottom of the Wiki homepage (http://gritlist.wetpaint.com/). And if that doesn't work, drop me a PM.
If I can get the Vimeo Group to upload the fucking file I'll add it there too :rtfm:
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On my mobile so can't be arsed faffing with looking it up, but the site might already be archived at http://www.archive.org (http://www.archive.org)
How annoying that there is no square brackets under Android OS!
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Yes, it's in the archive- but how long does it stay there?
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Yes, it's in the archive- but how long does it stay there?
I get the impression that the intention is to archive for ever, but couldn't find an explicit answer in the FAQ (http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php)
Specific help on archiving Geocities sites (http://www.archive.org/web/geocities.php)
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Before that grit list appeared I used to have a list with daft descriptions and French grades for gritstone routes of E7 and above. I could dig it out as a starting point?
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Any info is welcome, you can join the GriList Wiki and edit the stuff yourself. A real ID is preferable so the info can be attributed to sources etc, but feel free to join the community and update stuff.
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Cool, just found it. It is dated 1997 so pre-dates Readz list. (I think he may have used bits of it in his list.) The grades are my opinion and some friends.
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Just came across this Chew Valley gritlist (http://ktml.freeservers.com/Misc/Hard%20Grit/GradedChew.htm), quite interesting stuff.
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Been changing/add a fair but on this recently including trying to mark which routes sometimes get snowballed. One thing I can't figure out is how to put the peak E6's in alphabetical order the others all are but there doesn't seem to be a quick way to arrange the list alphabetically. Anyone able to sort it?
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The gritlist seems to be completely offline now. I think I took a backup last time I managed to get online to it.
If people still think it is a worthwhile idea then I'd be open to helping / chipping in, to get it back online using a more user-friendly interface. I vaguely remember Remus mentioning this ... ?
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Any psyche for a national one?
Would be wizard to have a proper list of all the LGPs in Cornwall/ Scotland etc...
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Any psyche for a national one?
Would be wizard to have a proper list of all the LGPs in Cornwall/ Scotland etc...
Scotland isn't developed enough to have LGPs.
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Any psyche for a national one?
Would be wizard to have a proper list of all the LGPs in Cornwall/ Scotland etc...
I found the old site by chance and thought the lists were great. This kind of thing nationwide would be hard to make in any way thorough, but if it starts with a transfer of grit stuff, at least it'd be off the ground, with the scope for expansion as people begin to add to it.
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I did start adding Cheshire stuff to the old gritlist as it's a similar style. Likewise, the North York Moors list was good and could be included. I guess there are other outcrop type areas like Dartmoor and Northumberland that could link in eventually too if people had the interest
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I pointed Readza at this thread, Mark. I think he's going to get in touch with you (though possibly via UKC?).
Neil
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I'd be happy to help out, sounds like a fun project.
Having said that, is it something that could work as a UKC ticklist? You could just add the projects to the crag like a normal route (I think there might even be an option for a 'project' grade?) and then collect them all together in a ticklist.
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Not really. The appeal was it being split by area and grade and ordered by safety with notes included on best ascent style.
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Not really. The appeal was it being split by area and grade and ordered by safety with notes included on best ascent style.
Pretty sure you could do that with a UKC ticklist. You can add 'dividers' which you could use for area grouping, and you can order stuff on the ticklist however you want. Looks like they can also have shared owners too, so it'd be relatively easy to have a few people who could maintain it.
I guess it just seems like if you were going to build it out you'd be recreating loads of stuff that UKC does already, but without all their existing extra data that'd give it some more depth. You could add some more stuff that UKC doesn't do but it seems like a load of work for not much gain.
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Or slightly more ghetto approach, it could all go in to a google sheet. Give a few people edit access and off you go.
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All on a post-it note? Pop it in the post to whoever needs it next?
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Thanks Neil. Jon Read has been in touch and has a full backup of the old gritlist.
It's way more than a list and requires more than a UKC ticklist. The idea is to give prospective ascentionists an idea on the style, technical difficulty, danger, recent / best ascents, history, interesting anecdotes, how clean it is likely to be etc etc, which can't be read from the grade and guidebook description.
A google sheet would be (a slightly crude) option.
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Old skool HTML + geocities host :smartass:
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Shirley this could sit somewhere on the ukb wiki?
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It's way more than a list
Ha, agreed. Good to hear it's at least backed up safely - original version was pretty formative and inspiring for me. Really liked John Read's historical anecdotes and writing style on it though I still have no idea what a rock n roller is/was. Can't remember exactly why but seem to remember the 'new' version was inferior to the original somehow. Lay-out/formatting maybe? Anyway would be good to see something new emerge and would be happy to help where pos. Also probably still sufficiently unenlightened to feel that little thrill of possibility when you see a big E grade classic assigned a relatively paltry french grade....
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It's more than just a list....it's a way of life.
I'm pretty sure a rock'n'roller is a sliding nut like a ballnut, but with a retractable small rolling cylinder instead of the ballnut's rounded disk.
Good luck with sorting out the mess of grades and ascent styles with the ubiquity of send train bellend party mat stacks beneath everything, M20 :lol: :lol: :lol:
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The geocities original is still available to view here http://www.geocities.ws/readza1/climbing/gritlist/grit_e7.html
Split into various categories "safe but hard" "bold and sustained" etc
The wiki replacement was and alphabetical list but with a 1-5 safety rating for each route
Jon Read has just emailed me a work-in-progress version using google drives, with embedded sheets that have editable rights. Looks like it could be a go-er.
There must be loads of people with useful stuff to contribute if/once we get it going again :thumbsup:
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The geocities original...
Split into various categories "safe but hard" "bold and sustained" etc
The wiki replacement was and alphabetical list but with a 1-5 safety rating for each route
Ah yeah, that's it. Possibly entirely subjective but that change felt like what might've been gained in utility was lost in charm/magic!