UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => bouldering => Topic started by: DavidT on July 18, 2008, 11:58:28 am
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So... Time to get a decent down jacket for the forthcoming winter chills and hours spent sitting around the crags eating sandwiches and making excuses for not being able to tackle that new route.
Thinking about buying either:
Mountain Equipment Classic Lightline Jacket
or
RAB Summit Jacket.
I hear good things about both but apparently the ME Lightline is lighter and more packable than the RAB, which might be a good thing as i do a fair bit of winter climbing and wild camping up in the North so weight and packable size might be an issue.
My head says go for the Mountain Equipment but my heart says go for the RAB. What a pickle I'm in.
Any suggestions on these two or others?
Ta.
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they used to say ME stuff was "all beaks and claws".
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I've got a RAB, mines a smock type but from looking at pictures I reckon it's just a smock version of the one you're after, I'd say your probably better with the jacket than smock, I tend to get stuck half in / half out of mine when I try and put it on while wearing a helmet. Zip up would be more practical I think.
Aside from that I adore it; it makes me sad when I have to take it off. :'( It's super cosy when you need it to be but also seems not to overheat you too much (this could just be me, I run very, very cold especially when winter climbing). I've worn mine in Scotland and Rjukan and never had any issue with it. It packs up reasonable small if you put in the effort, although you definitely get ones that go much smaller, and I've found it dries fine if it gets wet too which is a bonus.
I live in it when it's remotely cold, and most important and telling of all I love it even though it really doesn't look pretty or do me any favours in the slimming stakes ???
I'm not sure what else there is to say about it? Ask if you have specific questions.
Never tried an ME one so can't really compare / contrast for you.
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"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?
Used ME Down Sleeping Bags for years and had no probs... what are you thoughts on their jackets?
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"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?
Poor quality down
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Got a couple of mates have got the Alpkit ones, and are happy with them. No bells or whistles, and good price too.
I have a mountain hardware one, but hard to justify the cost unless you get one on sale. in the US.
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Magpie, any comments on how water-resistant they are.
I know that they are not designed to keep the rain out in downpours but is there any water-resistant qualities on the RAB's?
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I've used both ME and Rab, and would definitely prefer Rab, for quality, warmth, comfort and life span.
I find smocks cosier and less faffy for bouldering, but if you plan to use it on routes get a jacket, preferably with a zip that you can undo from the bottom, as it makes life easier when on belays, and means you can keep it mostly zipped up without it getting in the way of your belay plate.
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"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?
Used ME Down Sleeping Bags for years and had no probs... what are you thoughts on their jackets?
That anecdote was told to me by someone who worked for rab, so might have been a bit loaded.
I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore. My down jacket is a Rab circa 1997 and its still going strong. My shorties down jacket is a ME discount one from magic mountain in glossop, no real complaints (though she's not a heavery user, doesn't take it scottish winter climbing etc), so head there if you're thinking cheap. i'd certainly rather buy a ME factory second than buy an Aplkit full price.
The question of quality of a down jacket is hard to gauge though, you're talking about how well the down lasts after many years abuse, which is not going to be apparent in the shop.
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Magpie, any comments on how water-resistant they are.
Not very, I've never worn it in proper rain but in heavy sleety snow I got soaked. Well, the outer layer of the jacket got soaked and the down, I think, ended up a bit damp, none of the wet got through to me and it dried really well, you couldn't tell it had been wet. The outside felt a lot damper than I expected but the inside was dryer than I thought it would be, if that makes sense? All in, it held up better than I thought it would.
The actual outer material is really not waterproof at all though, the tougher patches on the shoulders seem to repel it slightly but the shiny stuff just sucks it right in. Saying that, I wouldn't hesitate to wear mine in the snow and it's OK in sleet if you want to keep cosy and can hang it up somewhere warm to dry later.
Oh, and definitely what Andy says about smock versus zip, the smock is probably a lot warmer but less convenient on routes cause it's hard to get at your harness.
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I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore.
I think it is true, at least for some of their stuff - including the down jackets, but I can't remember where I read it or who told me, so hardly a concrete answer ::)
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I had head that some of their new stuff is made in the far east too, difficult to know if thats had any impact on the quality though.
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I only got mine at Christmas so it's obviously one of the newer ones if that makes any difference, doesn't say much about long term quality but I haven't had any issues so far.
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Probably going to go with the RAB, seems more hard-wearing than the ME.
I'm now undecided between the Summit Jacket and the Peak Smock.
I can get the Summit Jacket for £125 which seems like a pretty good deal, can't see the Peak Smock for less than £120 though. Am I right in assuming that the Peak doesn't have a down hood or any hood in that case?
Most of the time 'll be wearing it for spotting and winter walking i guess.
Decisions decisions.
Ta.
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Mine's a Peak Smock, I recognise the name now you've said it, it was £80 or maybe £90 in the Tiso sale so you might be lucky price wise if you hunt about.
It doesn't have a hood no, but I don't miss it, if it's cold I've always got a hat on or the hood of my soft shell up anyway. Suppose it depends what you want to use it for, whether a hood is a big benefit or not.
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I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore. My down jacket is a Rab circa 1997 and its still going strong. My shorties down jacket is a ME discount one from magic mountain in glossop, no real complaints (though she's not a heavery user, doesn't take it scottish winter climbing etc), so head there if you're thinking cheap. i'd certainly rather buy a ME factory second than buy an Aplkit full price.
The question of quality of a down jacket is hard to gauge though, you're talking about how well the down lasts after many years abuse, which is not going to be apparent in the shop.
Dave speaks the truth here, Magic Mountain is worth checking, tho you may need a few trips to find what you want. My Mountain Equipment jacket is awesome, I live in it in the winter.
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OK peeps lets try and keep the gear discussions to a minimum please we don't want to turn into UKC :please:
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Get the Rab!
Or is that too UKC too?
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OK peeps lets try and keep the gear discussions to a minimum please we don't want to turn into UKC :please:
Now not the time to ask about what Hexes people recommend then?
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....or the number of times you should fall onto your rope before retiring it, is it two or three?
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Black Diamond ones on wire - easier to place in overhead placements, but the wire's still flexy enough to do without a quickdraw most of the time. I rate the small ones for mountain rock pockets too.
;D
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I got my 'new' duvet last year in Cambridge Oxfam for £12.50 including a John Betjeman first edition. Bet you can't top that for a bargain!
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"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?
Used ME Down Sleeping Bags for years and had no probs... what are you thoughts on their jackets?
That anecdote was told to me by someone who worked for rab, so might have been a bit loaded.
I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore. My down jacket is a Rab circa 1997 and its still going strong. My shorties down jacket is a ME discount one from magic mountain in glossop, no real complaints (though she's not a heavery user, doesn't take it scottish winter climbing etc), so head there if you're thinking cheap. i'd certainly rather buy a ME factory second than buy an Aplkit full price.
The question of quality of a down jacket is hard to gauge though, you're talking about how well the down lasts after many years abuse, which is not going to be apparent in the shop.
Rab was bought out by Equipe, in Alfreton - and i believe they now get the pertex shells made in China and bring them back to the UK to do the filling with down in Alfreton - if you look at Equipe's website many of the old staff from Rab are there now. Same company have also acquired podsacs now.
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I have an enormous Rab over-the-head job which is brilliant. Previously had a couple of ME jobbies but they fell to pieces pretty rapidly. The Rab is holding up very well (touch wood). I got it cheap in an Outside sale (about £60 I think) and it is completely the wrong size (XXXL or summat daft, I'm 5ft6) but it is ideal for bouldering/standing around on building sites. I wouldn't get an ME down again but will get the next cheap Rab I see.
Oh mines black but if you aren't bothered about colour I remember Sloper telling me he got his hideous vivid orange down for about twenty quid just because nobody else would dare to wear such a headache inducing colour...
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Rab was bought out by Equipe, in Alfreton - and i believe they now get the pertex shells made in China and bring them back to the UK to do the filling with down in Alfreton - if you look at Equipe's website many of the old staff from Rab are there now. Same company have also acquired podsacs now.
Equipe have a factory shop too, so you may be able to pick up a bargain. It's open Wednesday and Thursday afternoons, but you're probably best giving them a ring before you make the journey - I'm not sure what the stock is like.
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I've got a Mountain Hardare vest stylee and a North Face Nuptse with sleeves. Had them both year and they have been great. Vest type things are definitely better for bouldering.
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Sorry to resurrect a dead thread.
When a gentleman looks to buy a new down jacket, what sort of fill power should he consider a minimum for cold-as-the-grave winter days on the boulders?
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what sort of fill power should he consider a minimum?
That's not easy:
(https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=phil+the+power+taylor+wikipedia&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB590GB590&hl=en-GB&biw=1024&bih=653&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiS54qI7qnJAhVBNRQKHRTAA58Q_AUIBSgB#hl=en-GB&tbm=isch&q=phil+the+power+taylor+&imgrc=xarKHOTcF4795M%3A)
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Construction is as important as fill power. I've got a ME Lightline and it's not very warm - the stitch through baffles are just cheap and crap and the popper-off hood just falls off willy nilly.
I much preferred the older one with grown-on hood (which sadly I lost at some point :'( )
Mibbie this one? http://rab.equipment/uk/shop/men/down-insulation/positron-jacket-30 (at least has box wall on the body)
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Does Rab stuff still fall apart at the slightest touch as it did a few years ago?
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my 5-6 YO Alpkit one has proved tough... for the last three years its lived in a fetid state in the back of my car - only coming out on cold boulderizing days and its still warm and lofty. Though if I were after another one I'd get a cheapy decathlog one.. bouldering is not necessarily hard on a down jackets construction, but it gets them grubby and messed up super fast (splotches of blood, mud, chalk and other fluids....) ~ and they're not best suited to bunging in the washer every week...
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My alpkit one has lasted well but they don't seem to make them anymore :(
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Mine came from the USSR, but I don't know if they still sell them since the shop changed owners
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Controversial, but the only time I wear a down jacket now is for belaying when mountaineering. Synthetic all the way for bouldering, you get wind and water-proofing then which are generally of more use for our climate.
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My thoughts also..What would you recommend?
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http://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-warm-mens-jacket-id_8271763.html
Or you could spend £200 on the equivalent Arcteryx.
With regards to down, our ME hire stock has fared better than the Rab in recent years. I have a PHD down sweater that was made with 900 fill power down. Until today when I got soaked through in it, the loft was pretty impressive. Other than that I don't own any down for the same reason JB says.
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Does Rab stuff still fall apart at the slightest touch as it did a few years ago?
I have a Neutrino Plus which would be a decent jacket if it wasn't for the zips which appear to be made out of Brie. It's currently back with them for the third time in just under three years (although it obviously only get used for six months or less) having a fourth fitted. So far it's cost about 50% of the original cost in repair costs and PnP. They claim I'm being heavy handed with them but all I'm trying to do is open them from the bottom occasionally and that makes them stick, so you have to force it and that wears the teeth and it's a downward spiral from there. I'm getting a chunky one fitted this time rather than the daft waterproof one, which makes it the only water repellant part of the coat.
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I've use the ME Fitzroy synthetic for the last few years. Warm enough for pretty much any UK weather, bombproof construction and great waterproofing. Picked it up for 80 notes in a Snow and Rock sale. Works very well with a cheapo down underneath for really stupidly cold conditions. Highly recommended :great:
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My thoughts also..What would you recommend?
For days when I'm doing a fairly short session and expect to keep moving, an Arcteryx Atom LT Hoody over a t-shirt and Rab thermal. That did fine on Saturday when the air temp was minus 2 with significant wind chill. Beanie essential obvs. Option to add a thin fleece and lightweight waterproof if you like the layering.
If it's a longer session and I expect to be standing around, or going from thin layer for go then max warmth for rest, similar under layers then an Arcteryx Fission. The list price is insane (I won it in a photo comp) but you can get deals for £300-350. On a sub-zero calm day a £200 quid Rab is warmer, but only then. Mine isn't properly waterproof (they are now) but does fine in a shower unlike a Rab. However they are bombproof, no idea what the fabric is across the sleeves and shoulder but it is incredibly hard wearing. After five years it has no rips and it still looks vaguely smart after a wash.
Or you could spend £200 on the equivalent Arcteryx.
List for the Fission is £600 :o
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http://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-warm-mens-jacket-id_8271763.html
Or you could spend £200 on the equivalent Arcteryx.
I have one of those Decathlon jackets and it's certainly good value for what you pay for it. The cut and materials aren't remotely in the same league as Arcteryx though.
A the lighter and of the scale, I had one of Montane's lightweight insulated jackets - Prism I think - and replaced with with an Arcteryx Atom LT that I picked up half price in a sale. Montane is certainly a decent firm, nothing against them, but the Arcteryx a hell of a lot better.
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I've got a Mountain Hardware vest stylee and a North Face Nuptse with sleeves. Had them both years and they have been great. Vest type things are definitely better for bouldering.
I stand by this, but having seen some of the modern synthetic lightweight equivalents, there's no contest. Mine have been great, but the newer stuff is a step up.
EDIT: Was that REALLY seven years ago?????
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Happy with my Rab Neutrino Plus - box wall, 275g of 800 fill down - anything heavier duty and you're market for greater ranges expedition wear. What I really like is that it has a very long body - no more pesky drafts below the belt line. Got it cheap as it was the old non-hydrophobic down model. The lack of waterproofing doesn't bother me - I don't boulder in the rain and it's always stood up to the odd rainy walk-in to the shelter of the Malham catwalk.
I've tried synthetic insulation alternatives (DAS Parkas, RAB primaloft filled jackets etc) but to me they never seem as warm and cosy as down for cold days spent mainly inactive. The insulation also seems to lose potency after a few years. Although, I like the lighter-weight synthetics for active-wear on cold days (I love my Patagonia Nanopuff as a fleece alternative). That said, YMMV - my metabolism does run very cold, so if you have a less feeble constitution a synthetic might be warm enough and more suited to this damp isle.
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Happy with my Rab Neutrino Plus - box wall, 275g of 800 fill down - anything heavier duty and you're market for greater ranges expedition wear. What I really like is that it has a very long body - no more pesky drafts below the belt line. Got it cheap as it was the old non-hydrophobic down model. The lack of waterproofing doesn't bother me - I don't boulder in the rain and it's always stood up to the odd rainy walk-in to the shelter of the Malham catwalk.
I've tried synthetic insulation alternatives (DAS Parkas, RAB primaloft filled jackets etc) but to me they never seem as warm and cosy as down for cold days spent mainly inactive. The insulation also seems to lose potency after a few years. Although, I like the lighter-weight synthetics for active-wear on cold days (I love my Patagonia Nanopuff as a fleece alternative). That said, YMMV - my metabolism does run very cold, so if you have a less feeble constitution a synthetic might be warm enough and more suited to this damp isle.
Isn't your belayers who spend most of the day inactive? :P :lol:
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Isn't your belayers who spend most of the day inactive? :P :lol:
Sad but true (although, I recall spending very long days watching a certain someone climbing up and down and up and down sections of Air Rage / Quiet Flight at Kilnsey, agonising over clipping slings). Anyhow, proves my point -one if the reasons I am an acute judge of warm clothing is that I always need to have a good down coat to donate to my chilled partner (when your only attribute is tenacity, it would be a shame to be stymied by the premature hypothermia of a belayer).
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The waterproof zip (why?) on my Rab Neutrino endurance broke last year, so I only used my Rab Generator Alpine (synthetic) and I was alarmed to find that I never really missed my down jacket, apart from the lightness.
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I've had a PHD one for years. Made in the UK by grannies so high scores on build quality as well as the moral-high-ground-o-meter. It's a lightweight stitch-through, press stud hood thing of the type that Fultonius disses above but it's never suffered from the problems he mentions. It has a unreassuringly small amount of down in it but it's very high quality stuff so is amazingly warm despite being thin and light. Only down side is that it looks like something you'd get off Mansfield market.
Got a Rab Positron (at cost price due to a mate who worked for Equip :P ) for this winter though- I think that's the new version of Moose's "next model up comes with an oxygen tank" thing- it's thick, heavy, posh-feeling and long and therefore even warmer. Haven't worn it much yet though so maybe it will fall apart and I'll be back in my filthy PHD.
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Re the above, I also found the waterproof zip of my Rab to stick and eventually jam irrevocably. After one free replacement by Rab, I paid a local seamstresses £20 to replace the original zip with the heaviest duty chunky zip they could find. I admit I am a heavy handed clot like me but it still seems a bit poor for a £300 jacket - that said its thermal performance meant I was prepared to go to the faff (I think they should make versions of these jackets for those with no pretensions to expeditions or "fast and light" or "extreme Alpinism" - but better suited to people who just want to keep incredibly warm whilst hanging around UK crags and who will bugger off to the climbing wall if it rains, i.e. high thermal performance but with weight very much a secondary consideration).
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Agree with Moose on down vs synthetic. Synthetic for mountaineering when you might be out in actual bad weather, but down for standing around belaying etc. in the dry.
(My down jacket is from Alpkit. It's sewn through and has well dodgy stitching quality but thick, puffy and bright yellow. Suffices for my purposes)
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On the designing jackets not for mountaineering, are there any ticket down jackets that have a hood that is head sized, rather than head plus helmet sized.
I've gone through a few rabs and the warmest is the pullover style (no hood) from years ago. I stopped wearing it bouldering cos it's a right pain of you've got achy shoulders (plus it can really flatten a hairdo)
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My alpkit one has lasted well but they don't seem to make them anymore :(
They're in they're 'coming soon' section... they tend to get a batch in pre Xmas that sell out fairly fast....
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It might be worth noting that not all down is the same and it’s not all sourced in the same manner, some methods of down production leave a lot to be desired.
Some companies make efforts to ensure both the quality and that the down is ethically sourced and is something worth considering when looking at cheap options.
Of the companies I know who do something:
Mountain Equipment: Down Codex, http://www.thedownproject.me.uk/
Patagonia: Traceable Down, http://www.patagonia.com/us/traceable-down
Fjallraven: http://www.fjallraven.com/explore-fjallraven/responsibility/nature-environment/animal-welfare
Also:
Alpkit made an effort but never published anything: https://www.alpkit.com/develop/down-sourcing-part-3
An article on the other channel: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/press.php?id=5183
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Problem with synthetic is it doesn't last as well, and although its better in some situations (it's worth having one) don't expect it to last as well as down. My Rab pull-on I bought in about 1998/9 and its still going strong, still warm, still tons of loft, no mechanical failures (way better build than current Rab stuff). Essentially a down jacket should last more or less indefinitely if looked after - i.e. stored loose, ideally not hung up, always dried out properly. Hard to achieve that if getting soaked in the mountains, but for domestic bouldering use it's totally feasible.
I think for most folk a down is a better bet for today's boulderer for standing around in winter etc, especially with the waterproof outers they have now. Down also tends to be be less sweaty if you're active in one. its a bit like with down sleeping bags, they tend to be better for a wider range of temps than the equivalent synthetic due to being less sweaty on warm days.
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Hmm... I have a north face synthetic jacket that's 6-7 years old and still going strong.. I guess it depends on the quality of the fill...
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6-7 years? That's practically brand new. Come back when you've used it a bit.
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It might be worth noting that not all down is the same and it’s not all sourced in the same manner, some methods of down production leave a lot to be desired.
Some companies make efforts to ensure both the quality and that the down is ethically sourced and is something worth considering when looking at cheap options.
Of the companies I know who do something:
Mountain Equipment: Down Codex, http://www.thedownproject.me.uk/
Patagonia: Traceable Down, http://www.patagonia.com/us/traceable-down
Fjallraven: http://www.fjallraven.com/explore-fjallraven/responsibility/nature-environment/animal-welfare
Also:
Alpkit made an effort but never published anything: https://www.alpkit.com/develop/down-sourcing-part-3
An article on the other channel: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/press.php?id=5183
Yep, I've always been amazed ME in particular don't make more of this in their marketing, as it's clearly an important point of difference between them and the other big UK down brand.
PHD on their company ethics http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/phd-company-ethics
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6-7 years? That's practically brand new. Come back when you've used it a bit.
well I haven't taken it off in that time...
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It's a lightweight stitch-through, press stud hood thing of the type that Fultonius disses above but it's never suffered from the problems he mentions.
Maybe it has stronger studs, but I've found my hood hanging off mid belay - which is the last thing you want when you're wearing big fat mitts and it -10c (admittedly, not the use this thread is talking about). I just don't see a removable hood as a benefit - I have never worn the jacket without the hood.
What I was really meaning in my reply is that fill power is more of a marketing ploy than something to actually base your purchase on. I like down for cold dry places (alps, bouldering) and synthetic for cold damp places - I just had to get a new jacket for Scottish Winter, so picked up a ME Fitzroy which, while it's not super warm is tough, waterproof and packs fairly small.
I was assuming he meant cold & dry as people don't boulder in the rain much. Hand't considered the "walk to the catwalk in the rain" angle.
I still think bang-for buck warmth you're best with down.
On the designing jackets not for mountaineering, are there any ticket down jackets that have a hood that is head sized, rather than head plus helmet sized.
My GFs Rab has a head-sized hood - but the jacket is pretty thin and not very warm. Microlight Alpine Jacket iirc.
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Problem with synthetic is it doesn't last as well, and although its better in some situations (it's worth having one) don't expect it to last as well as down. My Rab pull-on I bought in about 1998/9 and its still going strong, still warm, still tons of loft, no mechanical failures (way better build than current Rab stuff). Essentially a down jacket should last more or less indefinitely if looked after - i.e. stored loose, ideally not hung up, always dried out properly. Hard to achieve that if getting soaked in the mountains, but for domestic bouldering use it's totally feasible.
I think for most folk a down is a better bet for today's boulderer for standing around in winter etc, especially with the waterproof outers they have now. Down also tends to be be less sweaty if you're active in one. its a bit like with down sleeping bags, they tend to be better for a wider range of temps than the equivalent synthetic due to being less sweaty on warm days.
Doesn't sound like you've ever had a decent synthetic. They are much less sweaty, and much harder wearing. Down jackets are fragile, (no tape holding yours together?) and I've never overheated in my synthetic like in my down.
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You say that like you've not seen me in an arcteryx synthetic, like fucking umpteen times. Its great for what it is.
Harder wearing in what way? They generally have the same outers. 18 years of wear and my Rab has one small patch on one arm where I caught it on some barbed wire which would have holed anything short of a donkeyjacket.
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Ah that lightweight one, not what I'm talking about. Down jackets are always covered in ripstop nylon, which of course doesn't live up to the name. Because the warmer synthetics can't match on weight to start with they tend to put much tougher fabric on. Snagged mine on barbed wire a bunch of times and it's unmarked.
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Medals in the post. Let's see it in 15 years time.
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Have a beard growing competition over the same period.
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I have a synthetic North Face jacket, 2 down ones, 2 down Rab ones plus the missus Rab one which she lets me wear :dance1: and a Montane down vest. They all work well in most conditions but then again I only tend to use them to walk from the kitchen to go on the board in the garage.
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I have a synthetic North Face jacket, 2 down ones, 2 down Rab ones plus the missus Rab one which she lets me wear :dance1: and a Montane down vest. They all work well in most conditions but then again I only tend to use them to walk from the kitchen to go on the board in the garage.
It must be bloody cold where you live to need that many coats to walk from the kitchen to the garage.
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Thanks for the tips everyone.
For me it has to be down. My old synthetic lost all its loft in short order and is now useless. This one won't be getting wet and since a lot of my standing-around-at-the-boulders happens 30+ mins from the road, weight is a consideration.
I searched around on Black Friday for some bargainous deals but didn't find anything that cut the mustard. The Alpkit ones are in my price range and are coming back in now. There is a duck down one for £130 and a goose down one for 145 sheets. I hear that goose is better, and the goose jacket appears to have narrower baffles and a lighter construction so will probably hang on for that one.
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Sad times, but after about 14yrs of trusty service (plus another few by the previous owner) I’ve been convinced (told) to get a new downie, as apparently it’s filthy and falling apart so I’m an embarrassment to be seen at the crag with.
Anyway…I’ve got another lightweight downie for taking up hills and stuff so I’m just after an indestructible workhorse of a jacket that is very warm for belaying or bouldering. Doesn’t have to be lightweight so could be synthetic if that’s a better option?
Any advice / opinions / recommendations on the current market for such things? I’m a bit out of touch with what would be a good option. Haven’t really got a budget in mind as a few extra hundred quid is a bargain over the lifetime of a jacket if it’s a goodun so could be persuaded to push the boat out.
Are Alpkit still good?
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Sad times, but after about 14yrs of trusty service (plus another few by the previous owner) I’ve been convinced (told) to get a new downie, as apparently it’s filthy and falling apart so I’m an embarrassment to be seen at the crag with.
Anyway…I’ve got another lightweight downie for taking up hills and stuff so I’m just after an indestructible workhorse of a jacket that is very warm for belaying or bouldering. Doesn’t have to be lightweight so could be synthetic if that’s a better option?
Any advice / opinions / recommendations on the current market for such things? I’m a bit out of touch with what would be a good option. Haven’t really got a budget in mind as a few extra hundred quid is a bargain over the lifetime of a jacket if it’s a goodun so could be persuaded to push the boat out.
Are Alpkit still good?
Worth keeping an eye on outdoor gear exchange on Facebook as amongst the tide of overpriced vans and people selling 1980s 'genuine british army style' clothing there is the occasional bargain. I got my current jacket for about £100 on there a few years ago and it was basically unused. Thats a Marmot, might be worth a look.
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Alpkit have got their Fantom reduced to £120 - seems to get decent reviews but heard their quality has dropped a bit?
https://alpkit.com/products/fantom-mens-down-jacket
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Alpkit have got their Fantom reduced to £120 - seems to get decent reviews but heard their quality has dropped a bit?
https://alpkit.com/products/fantom-mens-down-jacket
I got myself one of these just after Christmas and it seems good so far - it's been worn a fair bit and shoved down into bags probably more than is sensible and doesn't seem to have any rips or be leaking down. For the money I think it's really good quality (feels noticeably warmer than my synthetic ME Fitzroy), but having never spent more than that on a down jacket have no idea if it'd feel a bit cheap and shit compared to something from Arcteryx or Patagonia.
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Sad times, but after about 14yrs of trusty service (plus another few by the previous owner) I’ve been convinced (told) to get a new downie, as apparently it’s filthy and falling apart so I’m an embarrassment to be seen at the crag with.
Bought the Mountain Warehouse Polar Expedition (http://'https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/polar-expedition-mens-down-padded-jacket-p20588.aspx/red/') recently as I was in the exact same position. Wanted something monster thick and no need to be light or small. Haven't had a chance to fully road test it yet, but its almost half price for a 700 fill down jacket and should replace my previous 600 given to me in 2008 so was an easy expenditure. Detachable insulated hood and insulated pockets with the down layer on the outside (warmer hands :)). The sleeve inner has a hole for the thumb, like a tattered old hoodie, but its comfortable to wear without.
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No idea where you’re based but I always recommend the Rab factory shop (https://www.equipuk.com/uk.html) in these threads.
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Thanks Jim I’ll have a look on there.
No idea where you’re based but I always recommend the Rab factory shop in these threads.
Do Rab still make quality stuff? I know a few people who’ve had no end of trouble with zips and stuff on Rab gear.
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The few Rab bits I've got seem good so far, I've got one of their lightweight down jackets which hasn't seen much use yet (wouldn't want to get it dirty!) My partner's got one of those climbing works style Rab down jackets which seems pretty indestructible after 3 years of heavy use.
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My big downj is a Rab one I got from the factory shop and it’s both really good and in great shape after more than five years in contrast to a Montane synthetic one that I virtually killed in one winter. I also know people who’ve had zip problems with Rab but I think their dodgy days are behind them and they seem very into repairing them, selling spare parts etc. nowadays.
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Controversial, but the only time I wear a down jacket now is for belaying when mountaineering. Synthetic all the way for bouldering, you get wind and water-proofing then which are generally of more use for our climate.
Reading back on this thread a bit I’m wondering if a waterproof synthetic insulated thing might be the way to go, as my other lightweight downie (a 1000 fill PHD thing) never gets any use. Then I could use the synthetic one mostly and stick the downie on underneath if it gets really cold.
Went to the Rab outlet yday but there was nothing suitable. Anyone got a good synthetic indestructible waterproof/resistant jacket they’d recommend? The arcteryx fission that JB has https://arcteryx.com/gb/en/shop/mens/fission-sv-jacket looks like just the ticket but RRP at £570 :o
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I bought my girlfriend a lovely Montane jacket last month, it's primaloft and down, mixed in all the compartments - she's chuffed to bits with it. £99!
No idea what model it is, can't even find it on their site. Found it hanging on an Ultimate Outdoors sale rail and I've a feeling it might be a sample.
They have some odd garments in there from time to time, stuff they e decided not to stock and then you really get a genuine bargain.
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Anyone got a good synthetic indestructible waterproof/resistant jacket they’d recommend?
No personal experience with it, but going on specs & reviews ME Citadel (https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/products/citadel-jacket)? Not cheap by any reasonable standard, but cheap compared to paying full price for Arcteryx
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Anyone had one of these?
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mountaineering-down-jacket-makalu-red/_/R-p-180612?mc=8495234&c=RED_ORANGE
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No, but I got my dad one of these...
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mountain-trekking-down-jacket-trek-900-18-c/_/R-p-144206?mc=8587349&c=BLUE
which seems pretty good for the price and he's been pretty happy with it.
I think its probably not that robust in terms of tearing compared to other top end brands.
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Anyone got a good synthetic indestructible waterproof/resistant jacket they’d recommend?
No personal experience with it, but going on specs & reviews ME Citadel? Not cheap by any reasonable standard, but cheap compared to paying full price for Arcteryx
Yeh that looks like the sort of thing I’m after. The only issue is the Rab ones I looked at yday were all the lightweight outer shell that just didn’t seem durable for scraping against rock or bashing through vegetation and this ME looks similar from the pics and spec. Do they even exist with a really tough waterproof outer and a decent amount of insulation?
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Anyone had one of these?
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mountaineering-down-jacket-makalu-red/_/R-p-180612?mc=8495234&c=RED_ORANGE
I've been tempted by one of these - I am generally very cold through winter and would love something warm to sit at the crag - ideally in a t-shirt underneath. I hate having to take off and put on endless layers when out.
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Have you bought anything yet Ali?
About a week ago I misaligned the zip on mine but managed to fix it. Today I just ripped the whole thing off! It's got an entire packet of patch repairs so my interest in this thread has been accelerated somewhat.
I think it was a Berghaus Ulvetanna and I've been really impressed with it given the size/weight.
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Have you bought anything yet Ali?
No, I haven’t got round to it and it seems to have gone off the radar of the instigator so I’m thinking I might get another winter out of this one. Still keeping an eye out though. TB kindly got in touch with some decent looking downies at a good price - might be worth a PM?
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The arcteryx fission that JB has https://arcteryx.com/gb/en/shop/mens/fission-sv-jacket looks like just the ticket but RRP at £570
Sorry it's actually the KAPPA which seems to be discontinued. I've actually got two. The first I spent a competition token on - I figured I should spend it on something I'd never buy at the tag price which was £380. The second I got from one of the regular sales at SportPursuit for £180. But they've been absolutely bombproof and ideal for British weather, brambles etc and an absolute bargain at that sort of price. You might be able to find one in old stock, be aware sizing is big. They are showerproof not waterproof so if you want to trudge about all day in the rain you'll still need a gore-tex.
Doesn't seem to be an obvious replacement, Koda and Radster look similar but not the same. Maybe email and ask?
I've also got a Nuclei AR which I got to replace my down for scottish winter belays. It is very warm and packs down but nothing like as robust, basically a synthetic down jacket.
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Paul - if you want an ME K7 get in touch. I’ve got 4 different colours in size small. 755gms inc 300gms down.
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Paul - if you want an ME K7 get in touch. I’ve got 4 different colours in size small. 755gms inc 300gms down.
Cheers, I'm inclined to stay with something similar though as it's been really good (especially when layered with Arc' Teryx mid/base layers).
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Just had an email from SportPursuit saying their Black Friday Down Jacket sale is imminent, at least 50% off. https://www.sportpursuit.com/join/A4E6F0F3E88A94
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EDIT: lLink in post above is to sign up. Link to sale is here:https://www.sportpursuit.com/clothing/jackets-tops-jerseys?clothing_material=Down&sport=Hiking_%26_Outdoors&d=50,99&p=2
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EDIT: lLink in post above is to sign up. Link to sale is here:https://www.sportpursuit.com/clothing/jackets-tops-jerseys?clothing_material=Down&sport=Hiking_%26_Outdoors&d=50,99&p=2
Are things like the Fjern jackets any good? It's hard to tell on Sportpursuit when it's not Arc'Teryx or A N other reputable brand.
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Fjern trademark held by same holding company as sportpursuit so I believe one of the several psuedo brands they sell on the site (similar to tkmax). This is not to say it will be bad but I have always tried to stick to the recognised offerings. Not down jacket but I got what I now realise was another pseudo brand (supernatural merino stuff) the quality was much poorer (then eg smartwool).
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I really rate my Patagonia belay jackets. The das parka is a bit too warm sometimes. Fitzroy is also excellent. Pretty hard wearing.
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Loads of cheap high quality jackets on here. Lots samples at great prices.
https://www.magic-mountain.co.uk/collections/samples
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[quote ;) :) :)author=sidewinder link=topic=9560.msg647586#msg647586 date=1635945662]
Fjern trademark held by same holding company as sportpursuit so I believe one of the several psuedo brands they sell on the site (similar to tkmax). This is not to say it will be bad but I have always tried to stick to the recognised offerings. Not down jacket but I got what I now realise was another pseudo brand (supernatural merino stuff) the quality was much poorer (then eg smartwool).
[/quote]
I looked at getting one of these but read some reviews which said they were fine as long as you didn’t mind how sportpursuit operates and how it treats its staff. Also where it gets it’s down from, the review implied that it was from Osprey and Golden Eagle chicks ;) I bought a Patagonia jacket instead.
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Loads of cheap high quality jackets on here. Lots samples at great prices.
https://www.magic-mountain.co.uk/collections/samples
Until you refine by size .
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Loads of cheap high quality jackets on here. Lots samples at great prices.
https://www.magic-mountain.co.uk/collections/samples
Until you refine by size .
Large is available in most things. Maybe rules you out but most others should be ok. Hey, you and Nat could just wear one between you. Problem solved? Maybe even get Nina in there too!
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Loads of cheap high quality jackets on here. Lots samples at great prices.
https://www.magic-mountain.co.uk/collections/samples
Until you refine by size .
Incidentally, could see you in a pair of these :whistle:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2991/9414/products/ME-005052_Frostline_Short_ME-01513_Lapis-Blue_800x800_crop_center.jpg?v=1622798391)
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Needle Sports are selling some Mango coloured down jackets for very cheap.
I nearly bought one but then remembered I'm not Adam Lincoln.
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Needle Sports are selling some Mango coloured down jackets for very cheap.
I nearly bought one but then remembered I'm not Adam Lincoln.
Blues my colour…..
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Loads of cheap high quality jackets on here. Lots samples at great prices.
https://www.magic-mountain.co.uk/collections/samples
Cheers - that's the better half's Xmas pressie sorted
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I highly rate simond stuff from decathlon, and this thing is extremely warm... Especially for 140 quid.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mountaineering-down-jacket-makalu-red/_/R-p-180612?mc=8495234