UKBouldering.com
the site => suggestions, requests, support => Topic started by: Fiend on May 23, 2016, 07:46:19 pm
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Split from the macros/etc thread - Lund raised this as an issue. Irrespective of certain ongoing debates, I think it is worth heeding this issue, if it is genuine.
Obviously there are a few aspects of, errr, culture on here that could have been perceived to cause problems:
> DFB - fixed by removing thread after a poll found a majority in favour of not removing it.
> "offensive" terminology in avatars - soon to be fixed after mark s obeys the strict command from the UKB MODERATING ENFORCEMENT POLICE.
> Hostility towards UKC - generally outwitted by being a better culture than UKC overall??
What else is there?? Are there serious issues to be fixed?? What reasons have these many people actually cited about the culture (I'm hoping for a clear answer from Lund at least since he raised it)??
Personally I've had a couple of people thinking it's "too cliquey" and I've assured them that it IS cliquey but it's generally a smart, well-informed, and welcoming clique, as long as you're psyched and contribute sensibly (with SOME EXCEPTIONS obviously) and/or entertainingly.
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You are John Redhead, and I claim my five pounds.
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You are John Redhead, and I claim my five pounds.
JR would do a far better job on the avatar..
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Epic bantz etc etc. When everyone is finished, it's a genuine question. These issues have come to the fore before with DFB etc, the current debacle shows people are concerned about some....frivolities. And I think many people also care about UKB being a cool and stably popular forum??
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Really we need to hear from those who have left/no longer post....
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I miss "Pretty much exclusively for magpie" and Grange Hill
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I see from the forum stats that 2015 saw a record number of new members...
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If the argument for removing dead fit birds - that it put off female climbers from using UKB - was correct, then following it's removal there should have been a noticeable upturn in females using UKB..... :tumble: As things stand there still seems to be a distinct lack of tits on here...
apart from 3-9 :tease:
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We got Mumra didn't we?
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I just got bored with Fiend starting shit threads.
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Why fix something that isn't broke? Is there a need for mass appeal?
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many people use UKB because of its culture
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I just got bored with Fiend starting shit threads.
how did your project go?
the one where you were selling weapons grade vodka to ISIS
I've been looking forward to their Jackass style recruitment vids
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I just got bored with Fiend starting shit threads.
how did your project go?
the one where you were selling weapons grade vodka to ISIS
I've been looking forward to their Jackass style recruitment vids
Looks like he got sidelined winding Palace fans up on Twitter!
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Why fix something that isn't broke? Is there a need for mass appeal?
Good question.
If there are people who would get good value out of the forum, and make interesting/entertaining contributions, then surely they'd be worth having on board??
Especially if there is just some small issue that could be improved without changing the general entertainment value of the forum...
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I like it here because you get a smarter contribution. I'm slightly wary because I quietly suspect 'everyone knows everyone' ...now I know this probably isn't true but, you know...
I've picked up some great off topic stuff - books, films, stuff that might not have crossed my radar - from well informed people.
I think there's a difference between a contrarian and a 'forum contrarian' and this place is good at separating the two.
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Fiend.
Will you change your avatar.
Having just invited someone over to look at something on my screen (at work) they seemed to focus in just on your depiction of a cock. It wasnt very easy to explain - nor something I wanted to.
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Whilst the rest of our sport continues to become ever more commercialised, please can this be the last grubby little edifice that remains?
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Fiend.
Will you change your avatar.
Having just invited someone over to look at something on my screen (at work) they seemed to focus in just on your depiction of a cock. It wasnt very easy to explain - nor something I wanted to.
As a stop-gap measure, you can turn off all user's avatars on the settings. This is what I've done.
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Good plan.
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I just got bored with Fiend starting shit threads.
Slight Return
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the last grubby little edifice that remains
That's the next t-shirt right there.
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Why fix something that isn't broke? Is there a need for mass appeal?
Good question.
If there are people who would get good value out of the forum, and make interesting/entertaining contributions, then surely they'd be worth having on board??
Especially if there is just some small issue that could be improved without changing the general entertainment value of the forum...
Bring back Sloper :devil-smiley:
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Why fix something that isn't broke? Is there a need for mass appeal?
Good question.
If there are people who would get good value out of the forum, and make interesting/entertaining contributions, then surely they'd be worth having on board??
Especially if there is just some small issue that could be improved without changing the general entertainment value of the forum...
Bring back Sloper :devil-smiley:
Yes, probably a good idea.
If there is one observation or criticism I'd like to make, it would be that I think there can be a tendency for the forum - the group, and it isn't a big one - to en masse, round on anyone who is suddenly not flavour of the month.
I think other people can probably pick up on this - the need to tread carefully, to avoid being excluded.
Where there is "bad behaviour", I think it can be handled in a better way, and "the group" tends not to look at their own behaviour, once someone has been ousted. With Slopes, I think things had become too personal, and I think this is the one area where some more thought is needed.
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There is to a certain extent a mass consciousness and common agreement, but i think Sloper initially (and second time around) liked to try and wind people up and play the Devil's Advocate, but then seemed to not be able to cope with the outfall of his actions.
He'll be back gain.
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Why fix something that isn't broke? Is there a need for mass appeal?
Good question.
If there are people who would get good value out of the forum, and make interesting/entertaining contributions, then surely they'd be worth having on board??
Especially if there is just some small issue that could be improved without changing the general entertainment value of the forum...
Bring back Sloper :devil-smiley:
Yes, probably a good idea.
If there is one observation or criticism I'd like to make, it would be that I think there can be a tendency for the forum - the group, and it isn't a big one - to en masse, round on anyone who is suddenly not flavour of the month.
I think other people can probably pick up on this - the need to tread carefully, to avoid being excluded.
Where there is "bad behaviour", I think it can be handled in a better way, and "the group" tends not to look at their own behaviour, once someone has been ousted. With Slopes, I think things had become too personal, and I think this is the one area where some more thought is needed.
This.
And I think it's a recent thing, apparent in the thread that spawned this one.
I'm reluctant to voice an opinion on here anymore but in for a penny and all that.
There was some merit in the criticism of Marks' avatar, I felt much of the indignation had to be contrived, Dense was probably right in branding it a storm in a teacup and how the f@#& did anyone notice?
How many concurrent threads about the forum?
What does that say?
PS.
Fiend can you pm me the offinsive avatar? I missed it and I'm fascinated to see what was so bad.
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I just got bored with Fiend starting shit threads.
how did your project go?
the one where you were selling weapons grade vodka to ISIS
I've been looking forward to their Jackass style recruitment vids
Looks like he got sidelined winding Palace fans up on Twitter!
That is fun but also far too easy. When the average Palace tit on Twitter has the IQ of a potato, it's not really fair.
Lagers, you weren't supposed to talk about that. You were supposed to be keeping operations running smoothly here while I was out in the field. You've just jeopardised your 10% cut sunshine.
I don't really understand this thread so I'm only going to add nonsense to it.
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Whilst the rest of our sport continues to become ever more commercialised, please can this be the last grubby little edifice that remains?
Actually, I sort of get it now. Completely agree with this Mono.
Part of the reason I got bored with posting on here was that it seemed to be getting a bit tame and just regurgitating the same stuff over and over. So the idea that things should be in any way further sanitised to attract a different class of member is anathema to me.
Grubby is good. This is not UKC.
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There is to a certain extent a mass consciousness and common agreement, but i think Sloper initially (and second time around) liked to try and wind people up and play the Devil's Advocate, but then seemed to not be able to cope with the outfall of his actions.
He'll be back gain.
Yes, Sloper likes to play the troll but can't take it when people do the same to him. Hence two massive flounces when things weren't going his way. It's a shame because without anyone being a cunt, internet forums aren't nearly as much fun.
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Whilst the rest of our sport continues to become ever more commercialised, please can this be the last grubby little edifice that remains?
Mate, that may well be the single best (of many great) thing you have written on here.
I fully echo your sentiments. UKB is the Mr Hyde to UKCs Dr Jekyll. We all know which character had more fun and which one we'd rather be.
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Lagers, you weren't supposed to talk about that. You were supposed to be keeping operations running smoothly here while I was out in the field. You've just jeopardised your 10% cut sunshine.
you drank the order, didn't you?
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I read UKB a lot but post only occasionally. The chat in here (as opposed to UKC) tends to be much more knowledge as well as much more entertaining and I don't post as I don't have the level of knowledge or quick wit to be able to contribute to a lot of stuff, I generally don't post on UKC as I can't be arsed!
The only thing that does slightly irritate are the lewd/leering comments, they don't happen too often but it would be nice to have a conversation about female climbers without someone basically saying phwoar. It just highlights the fact that this is a very male dominated environment.
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Why fix something that isn't broke? Is there a need for mass appeal?
Good question.
If there are people who would get good value out of the forum, and make interesting/entertaining contributions, then surely they'd be worth having on board??
Especially if there is just some small issue that could be improved without changing the general entertainment value of the forum...
Bring back Sloper :devil-smiley:
Yes, probably a good idea.
If there is one observation or criticism I'd like to make, it would be that I think there can be a tendency for the forum - the group, and it isn't a big one - to en masse, round on anyone who is suddenly not flavour of the month.
I think other people can probably pick up on this - the need to tread carefully, to avoid being excluded.
Where there is "bad behaviour", I think it can be handled in a better way, and "the group" tends not to look at their own behaviour, once someone has been ousted. With Slopes, I think things had become too personal, and I think this is the one area where some more thought is needed.
Hmmm, that's a bit of revisionism Dave. The only personal bit I recall is the insults Tom was throwing around.
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Why fix something that isn't broke? Is there a need for mass appeal?
Good question.
If there are people who would get good value out of the forum, and make interesting/entertaining contributions, then surely they'd be worth having on board??
Especially if there is just some small issue that could be improved without changing the general entertainment value of the forum...
Bring back Sloper :devil-smiley:
Yes, probably a good idea.
If there is one observation or criticism I'd like to make, it would be that I think there can be a tendency for the forum - the group, and it isn't a big one - to en masse, round on anyone who is suddenly not flavour of the month.
I think other people can probably pick up on this - the need to tread carefully, to avoid being excluded.
Where there is "bad behaviour", I think it can be handled in a better way, and "the group" tends not to look at their own behaviour, once someone has been ousted. With Slopes, I think things had become too personal, and I think this is the one area where some more thought is needed.
Hmmm, that's a bit of revisionism Dave. The only personal bit I recall is the insults Tom was throwing around.
He was also helpful and often almost nice in pm's.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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If there is one observation or criticism I'd like to make, it would be that I think there can be a tendency for the forum - the group, and it isn't a big one - to en masse, round on anyone who is suddenly not flavour of the month.
The only thing that does slightly irritate are the lewd/leering comments, they don't happen too often but it would be nice to have a conversation about female climbers without someone basically saying phwoar. It just highlights the fact that this is a very male dominated environment.
Well that's two useful points.
Although I don't think the first necessarily applies to Sloper as he was deliberately provocative and everyone knows it. But I can see how ganging up on someone is off-putting because it's basically ignorant herd mentality. Especially when it's done towards essentially innocent people who might just happen to have slightly geeky side-hobbies and very very occasionally eat fast food and really don't deserve any aggro.
The more "subtle" sexism thing. Hmmmm. A good point. I must confess I do post appreciations of the female form especially in the IFSC thread but I post an equal amount of appreciation of their bouldering prowess. Is the former THAT off-putting?? It would be good to hear from more people about it.
It would also be good to get more confirmations of whether this stuff is offputting in general - I noticed Lund has seen this thread but not actually said what the many people he knows have been putt off by, surely that would be helpful??
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Whilst the rest of our sport continues to become ever more commercialised, please can this be the last grubby little edifice that remains?
Mate, that may well be the single best (of many great) thing you have written on here.
I fully echo your sentiments. UKB is the Mr Hyde to UKCs Dr Jekyll. We all know which character had more fun and which one we'd rather be.
I fully echo your sentiments. UKB is the Mr Hyde to UKCs Dr Jekyll. We all know which character had more fun and which one we'd rather be.
Well. Some people (again, the now-elusive Lund) imply there is an issue with putting people off. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, maybe this should be a haven for easily-mistaken-as-homophobic-if-you're-a-bloody-idiot avatars, tit-4-tat karma wars, dense's essential irreverency etc etc??
So I guess the questions are: Is there a problem? And if so, what is it?
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Those missing DFGWGC should try bikeradar forum road cycling -the bottom bracket -the big girls thread.
Then you can marvel at how PC we all are on here.
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I'm struggling to understand why you don't understand Fiend.... You grasp why people might not appreciate the spunk comment - but not why faggot or gay are also offensive words to use?
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Those missing DFGWGC should try bikeradar forum road cycling -the bottom bracket -the big girls thread.
Then you can marvel at how PC we all are on here.
For me it's not that I really miss or give much of a shit about taking part in a 'dead fit birds who go climbing' thread. It's more there's something vital about not taking away opportunities for people to make idiots of themselves - whether by showing their true colours as misogynists, racists, homophobes or run-of-the-mill bigots. Banning opportunities for free speech in topics some find offensive is not healthy, anymore than banning alcohol, cannabis and various other drugs. Better for vices to be out in the light so people can call bullshit on dubious views and point out inequalities. Hard to challenge or change much when it's undercover.
As for 'you faggot'.. If people routinely used 'you toy soldier painter' (Fiend); or 'you christian' (3.9.) as a pejorative term to mean 'you inferior being', then might you start to feel a bit marginalised after a few years of common usage?
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good post pete
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The spunk comment, or the examples pete gave, or the example coops gave in his COD poster are all using those terms TO/ABOUT the people who might feel marginalised by them,
Mark s's avatar was *NOT* directed at people who might feel marginalised by that term (unless there is a group of homosexual crossfit fanatics on here whom he was deliberately insultng - in which case then I'd apologise for even supporting his freedom of avatars). That's the difference.
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Got to say - I didn't think I was trying to score cheap I'm-so-pc points. From my point of view, it felt more like I was arguing with people trying to score cheap I'm-so-un-pc-and-therefore-cooler-than-thou points.
More on topic for this thread: I totally agree with the point about avoiding over-sanitation/moderation - which means that anyone can say 'I don't like that and think you sound like a cock' when they think someone sounds like a cock. ;)
r.e. the above post Fiend: 'That's so gay', 'you faggot' etc. was considered really normal at my school - as was 'OMG that's so Jewish' or 'don't be such a Jew'. Most of the time it wasn't directed at anyone Jewish. Was that ok according to you? If so I think you sound like a right cock.
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Hang on, how the fuck can avatars be "directed at" anyone? They're out there for anyone to see. If you wouldn't be happy walking down the highstreet, or rocking up at the pub for a work social, or picking our kids up from school with your avatar printed 10x10" on the front of a tshirt for fear of being slapped then that's an indicator that it's probably an inappropriate avatar.
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Hang on, how the fuck can avatars be "directed at" anyone? They're out there for anyone to see. If you wouldn't be happy walking down the highstreet, or rocking up at the pub for a work social, or picking our kids up from school with your avatar printed 10x10" on the front of a tshirt for fear of being slapped then that's an indicator that it's probably an inappropriate avatar.
Yeah. And we all know how that ends up...
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/5/53/Bruce_Willis_Die_Hard_3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130707234113)
In fact, I'm pretty sure the cross fit one would have the same effect if you walked past a cross fit gym. Chris Webb Parsnips might have something to say
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The spunk comment, or the examples pete gave, or the example coops gave in his COD poster are all using those terms TO/ABOUT the people who might feel marginalised by them,
Uh, the examples pete gave were exactly the same. i.e. imagine if people routinely said 'oh you toy soldier painter' to mean 'you cunt' to people who had nothing to do with toy soldiers, and you might start getting fed up with it eventually. That COD poster wasn't aimed specifically at women either, was it? It was posted on internet message boards presumably to make the (presumably, predominantly male) audience laugh. Or possibly to score look-at-me-I'm-so-un-pc points. I'm not sure.
I love that you seem to be assuming that everyone on ukb is straight, while arguing that the kind of attitude that actually does put non-straight people off the forum is totally fine.
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Mark s's avatar was *NOT* directed at people who might feel marginalised by that term (unless there is a group of homosexual crossfit fanatics on here whom he was deliberately insultng - in which case then I'd apologise for even supporting his freedom of avatars). That's the difference.
FFS Fiend, are you being deliberately obtuse? I don't understand why you're so bent on defending this? When homophobic bullying is no longer widespread and common in our schools, for example, then maybe we can start treating the routine, unthinking use of terms of homophobic abuse - in whatever context - as "frivolous."
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This place is so male and clubby its scheduled for a Grayson Perry show next series. Its full of laughter, learning and love but something is broken when half the population is largely missing.
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If there is one observation or criticism I'd like to make, it would be that I think there can be a tendency for the forum - the group, and it isn't a big one - to en masse, round on anyone who is suddenly not flavour of the month.
The only thing that does slightly irritate are the lewd/leering comments, they don't happen too often but it would be nice to have a conversation about female climbers without someone basically saying phwoar. It just highlights the fact that this is a very male dominated environment.
Well that's two useful points.
Although I don't think the first necessarily applies to Sloper as he was deliberately provocative and everyone knows it. But I can see how ganging up on someone is off-putting because it's basically ignorant herd mentality. Especially when it's done towards essentially innocent people who might just happen to have slightly geeky side-hobbies and very very occasionally eat fast food and really don't deserve any aggro.
I'm not going to get into the #2 point at the moment, but regarding point #1 I think there are two typical situations.
The first situation is that you say something stupid and/or not well thought out, and people make fun of you for it. There is almost always also someone who will point out both what you were wrong about and why you were wrong about it, although it may take a few posts before this pops up. Therefore if you actually get through the responses with a relatively open mind, there is much to learn here. This is a public forum and not a paid answering service. For the quality of info you get with relative ease, I think this is a CHEAP price to pay. I also think it makes those lessons sink in better. People learn to think a bit more critically, search the forum for previous threads, and put in at least a small amount of effort before asking a question and expecting to be spoonfed the answer.
The second situation is a bit trickier and tends to show up when there's an set difference in opinion and it starts to get personal and folks line up on one side or the other. This is unfortunate, but the reality of life.
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Hang on, how the fuck can avatars be "directed at" anyone? They're out there for anyone to see. If you wouldn't be happy walking down the highstreet, or rocking up at the pub for a work social, or picking our kids up from school with your avatar printed 10x10" on the front of a tshirt for fear of being slapped then that's an indicator that it's probably an inappropriate avatar.
I still don;t know who or what your is supposed to be btw. Too small to read or recognise.
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I still don;t know who or what your is supposed to be btw. Too small to read or recognise.
What boulder problem did Dave climb that a well known wad from Germany couldn't on the same day?
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Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?
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1. Coops - bang on the money.
2. Fiend - I'm glad you are still listening/engaging with the thread... please take some of it in...
3. Avatars are public (anyone can see them - including the colleague who wondered why there was a red dick on a black background on my PC screen. Thanks fiend. At least it wasnt the crossfit one..)
4. There are some conflicting views here about UKB appealing to a wider (non male) audience but remaining small. Largely this means making the forum more diverse. In my view this is good, but in order to do this, you have to make it appeal to a broader group of people - in which case it becomes hard to keep it small and cliquey as some people like.
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2. Fiend - I'm glad you are still listening/engaging with the thread... please take some of it in...
LOL, you utter smug patronising cunt, I didn't start it for my fucking benefit. Despite sometimes arguing against hysterical knee-jerking, I know full well when something can be considered offensive, and pay due attention to convincing and sensible arguments against any position I might put forward.
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2. Fiend - I'm glad you are still listening/engaging with the thread... please take some of it in...
LOL, you utter smug patronising cunt, I didn't start it for my fucking benefit. Despite sometimes arguing against hysterical knee-jerking, I know full well when something can be considered offensive, and pay due attention to convincing and sensible arguments against any position I might put forward.
Apologies - but from what you posted it didn't sound like that!
Anyway, If I'd meant to be patronising there would be the odd McPaintedRedAudi gag thrown in there ;)
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Fair enough. Ignore same post copied as PM, I was trying to keep some bitching off here.
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Fair enough. Ignore same post copied as PM, I was trying to keep some bitching off here.
No worries - ignored - no problem.
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To go back to the original topic... (which was actually poorly worded and doesn't make sense although I know what you were getting at Fiend!)
Is it the culture that stops people using it or the people using it?
Why do we want these people who don't use it to use it?
Are we missing out on something?
Do we want to be more PC?
Is it really important to have mass appeal/be more UKC?
What Mumra said...
I value the information that is available here and enjoy the banter etc that goes with it. It brightens my day generally. there are very very view occasions when I have felt that a thread went too far (even the religion one!). Obviously, I am a white 40 year old male i.e. not in the minority and have been posting on here for years. I am guilty of being misogynistic in the past re DFB and for what it's worth, think that the forum is probably better for not having it.
To echo what Battery said, I often feel overshadowed by the wit of others (Lagers ((Not a bad thing though))) and often don't contribute to stuff because I feel I don't have anything to add. But that doesn't stop me enjoying or laughing at it!
Most of the guys I climb with don't post on UKB but some do have an account and use it as a resource. They don't post simply because they're not interested in fora, not because of it's clique-iness...
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Fair enough. Ignore same post copied as PM, I was trying to keep some bitching off here.
No worries - ignored - no problem.
What?! I thought the problem was now UKB is too cuddly and you're being all nice? Aren't you meant to tell him to stick his lovingly ink-washed orc up his arse and choke on a mcnugget?
Is that better Fiend?
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Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?
No its an occluded hint as to what* daves avatar is.
The person is looking at cards painted on what appears to be the side of a plane.
The top card is a Joker.
Dave climbed The Joker at Stanage Plantation a while back.
Alexander Megos was at the crag trying the problem that day and couldn't do it.
* More my guess really though.
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As someone who's only notched up 80 or so posts but has checked this site at some point probably everyday for the last 10 years or so I think it's just like any other community online or not, different people use it in different ways. I've got loads of handy info over the years but I'll only post if I have a specific question or a bit info that I think is useful. I don't tend to get involved in the banter because there's a pretty obvious core of people who post most days and seem to know each other. Sometimes getting involved in the banter feels like the equivalent of walking up to a group of strangers at the wall and just joining in their conversation without even introducing yourself.
As I've only dipped in and out with posting I've never bothered to introduce myself. Quite often when people put a hint to their name in their username or post photos/vids of themselves I've realised that I know them from down the Works or out and about in the Peak. There's a fair few people on here I'd chat to in the real world but they probably wouldn't have a clue who I am as there's no clue on my profile. Maybe there's many more lurkers like me! When I joined the site I just used the first part of my email address instead of my name and I wonder if that anonymity, as with most internet forums adds to the perceived cliqueyness of the site. Not sure if it's even what people want but would more people putting their usernames as their actual names or having a photo/vid option in your profile reduce the unknown, make the community a bit broader and make people consider what they write a bit more?
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Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?
No its an occluded hint as to what* daves avatar is.
The person is looking at cards painted on what appears to be the side of a plane.
The top card is a Joker.
Dave climbed The Joker at Stanage Plantation a while back.
Alexander Megos was at the crag trying the problem that day and couldn't do it.
* More my guess really though.
Ah OK. Why does the Joker card have a dog on it then?
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Dunno is this some UKB Quiz?
No its an occluded hint as to what* daves avatar is.
The person is looking at cards painted on what appears to be the side of a plane.
The top card is a Joker.
Dave climbed The Joker at Stanage Plantation a while back.
Alexander Megos was at the crag trying the problem that day and couldn't do it.
* More my guess really though.
Ah OK. Why does the Joker card have a dog on it then?
Its a tribute to Daves childhood hero, Spit the dog.
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Having said all that I tried to change my username to my name but couldn't, is there a way?
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Mark s's avatar was *NOT* directed at people who might feel marginalised by that term (unless there is a group of homosexual crossfit fanatics on here whom he was deliberately insultng - in which case then I'd apologise for even supporting his freedom of avatars). That's the difference.
It's not the case that Mark's avatar wasn't "directed at people who might feel marginalised by that term", it's the fact that it's implies it's ok to use faggot as pejorative term UKB. I don't think it is. I did as a child at school (like i_a_coops said) and probably made people feel a shit because of it, I don't want to do that anymore.
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Having said all that I tried to change my username to my name but couldn't, is there a way?
PM Shark and he'll change it
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Will do, cheers
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I don't understand why you're so bent
Homophobe! :chair:
I am far from being a PC whatever or Guardianista but even I can see that using the word faggot in the way it was is not acceptable.
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I can see that using the word faggot in the way it was is not acceptable.
Yes, if I was an offal based meat product or a bundle of firewood I would have been deeply offended by implication that I employed a varied approach to my exercise routine.
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the now-elusive Lund
Oh, I'm here. Just listening. Pete, i_a_coops, Teaboy, galpinos, etc. are all making my point better than I probably can, so I've kept quiet. I guess I may as well comment at this point, why not.
Fundamentally, it's very difficult to change, but change we must, in my opinion. PC is not the same as evolving yourself and your language as cultures and people change. For example: when I was at school, the phrase "pakishop" was acceptable. It still is to some people, especially of the older generation in the harsher regions of the shire.
Anyone remember:
"Pack it in!"
"Paki's don't come in tins. They come in banana boats."
I'm sure some of you do. My own children will never, ever, ever, utter this phrase twice in my hearing.
On a different level, using the word "gay" to mean "crap" is wrong. I've been (rightly) pulled up for this on this very forum - puntered by duncan, and jaspersharpe, you said:
Lund I'm in no way politically correct but is the use of "gay" as a derogatory term really necessary?
It's 2012 and it seems a bit seventies offensive these days even to me, now then now then.
So, as a result, I've made an effort to change my language. It's difficult - ask Chris Moyles - but I think this has made me a better person, and helped me evolve from my pit-village-80s-upbringing into something at least a touch closer to the 21st century.
The UKB culture? I think it's too heavily skewed towards that former. A land where "cunt", "faggot", and commentary about which is the fittest competitor in the world cup IFSC 16 thread is entirely acceptable.
PC? Rowing back on that is not PC. Not calling disabled people retarded is not PC. Some things are PC - I would suggest banning "elderly" for "senior citizens" is probably a step too far and IS PC for example. But perhaps in 30 years this too will not be fair use.
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How are we defining "Male dominated environment" ?
Is it that we are actively excluding females, or is it that the general traits, this forum exudes, are perceived as being more masculine and this is off-putting for females ?
I'm interested to know because as far as I can see, nobody has anything against there being a stronger female presence on this forum whatsoever.
Maybe defining the root of the problem is the first step towards answering it ?
Or maybe we all just like using this forum, whoever turns up, and we shouldn't worry too much about what their gender is.
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Yeah completely agree Lund.
I didn't know what this whole furore was about when I originally posted but it's certainly not over sanitisation or being "too PC" to stop people using really offensive homophobic or racist terms on here.
I'll stand by my use of the word cunt though as I know plenty of women who use it and anyway, I'd have no way of correctly describing Fiend if I stopped.
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Dick.
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Dick.
[emoji8]
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Lund, thanks for that reply. That actually wasn't what I was asking, I was asking for general reasons why the people you know don't visit UKB, but still it made the language issue point far better than knee-jerk puntering - and had far better examples than previous mis-comparisons. The "paki" one is interesting as that was used at school too but I too wouldn't want to use it these days.
Funnily enough I'm not actually defending the use of the word "faggot" in general, but I am - okay, was, I gave up ages ago - defending mark s's avatar as the least offensive use I've seen on it. I suggest in future any issues be settled with a wrestling contest / pit fight with mark himself.
Simon W - I think anyone can join in the banter here if they just try it, I personally welcome it from anyone. I've only been on here for 12 years but a lot of valuable contributors still seem pretty "new" too me.....they all started somewhere. Still a good point, it's hard to know how welcoming the clique is sometimes...
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I'm not too interested in Fiend's question, but if he was asking about compression problems in Lancashire...
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
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I'm not too interested in Fiend's question, but if he was asking about compression problems in Lancashire...
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
What's that got to do with the good things in life though? Like leering at birds and calling someone a cunt when they're a cunt.
I think you're missing the point. You cunt.
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I liked you better when you were selling vodka, rockets and guns to both the good Muslims and the bad Muslims
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I'm not too interested in Fiend's question, but if he was asking about compression problems in Lancashire...
Ugh now this is really getting sordid. No wonder no-one visits UKB with topics like that looming.
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sorry
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A couple of thoughts.
As someone who frequently lurks but rarely posts, the forum can seem cliquey. However, that is also part of its charm. I enjoy reading the banter between the regular users even if I don't often contribute. The level of debate is also well informed, and you don't tend to get the sort of trolling or over the top internet arguments that you do elsewhere.
I think much of this would be lost if you had every man and his dog on here, and I wouldn't want the character of the site to change to obtain wider appeal.
At the same time, no-one should feel unwelcome due to race, gender, sexuality etc. However, I think on the whole the site is pretty well self-regulating in this regard. The present case is a good example. The word faggot is pejorative, even if only unthinkingly so, and in bad taste. I've noticed the avatar in the past but not said anything (maybe due to cowardice?). I'm glad it's been called out.
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I'm wondering if the problem is that we're not offensive enough? You cunt-munching faggots.
Edit: I couldn't be arsed to read the middle of the thread, so if someone said this already I apologise.
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I don't post often, but read fairly regularly. I appreciate the overall tone as well as the cliquey nature (even if I am an outsider). I also appreciate the topics discussed.
I really can't be bothered with sifting through forums where things like the following are the norm: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/do-essential-oils-damage-climbing-ropes/111876424
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Good Points:
Is fairly moderately moderated, so freedom of speak prevails.
Sponsors can take a pounding in the forums and threads NOT be pulled.
I can swear in a thread if I feel it warrants it ..
DTI Forum is a great training resource
Somewhere where if you ask a question you aren’t going to get some bumbly that that been training (and climbing) for 6 months talking like he is the dude.
Bad Points:
Fiend has a giant red cock as an avatar that makes it look like I’m browsing some cross training forum.
Lack of moderation means that people can overstep the mark and post stuff like ^ (I edited what I was going to post btw but others wouldn’t)
Most climbers are probably on the spectrum somewhere or other and they don’t realise when they are overstepping the mark.
It's cliquey as fuck.
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When people say it's cliquey what do they actually mean? Its not cliquey it's just the same people post since most of them are bored at work. It's not point break with fuckin lagers, tomtom, shark and say me surfing the good stuff and locals rule. Anyone can join in, I wish some people would to be honest since the forums getting pretty tedious. The only bad thing is people can't really say what they want, there is no freedom of speech only the illusion of these things. Everybody's equal just some people are more equal than others.
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post since ... bored at work.
that and the fact that I haven't got any real friends
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Not posting on here because it's is cliquey is like walking into a pub you've not been into before, finding most of the table full of groups of people talking, and instead of asking for the spare stool at the end of someone's table or striking up conversation with the old bloke at the bar you go "oooh this place is so cliquey", necking you half pint and leaving.
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fuckin lagers, tomtom, shark and say me
All noobs apart from you dense, surely??
The giant red cock goes when my watched tag goes and I get to know who was masquerading as the UKB REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY ANTI-AVATAR HIT SQUAD. Unless I have enough votes to keep it??
P.S. Good points skelf, and dave too.
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post since ... bored at work.
that and the fact that I haven't got any real friends
me too. I only post when the cat won't talk to me....
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I agree with Dense. UKB, like most other forums I suspect, is populated mostly by people filling slack time at work (me), students bored at study, or old cunts unable to make it down the post office for a chat (....). And it does seem to be getting a bit tedious to me too although that might just be a natural phase. Too many doctors moaning about how shit their work schedule is and about the end of the world; before that it was too many teachers moaning about how shit their jobs are, and the end of the world.. The training thread is full of people paying Tommy a hundred quid to tell them they aren't fit enough for their 8a proj...
Throw in bollocks threads like this one and it isn't that interesting at the moment.
I realise you don't have to read the threads that don't interest you but slack time needs filling somehow.
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I agree with Dense. UKB, like most other forums I suspect, is populated mostly by people filling slack time at work (me), students bored at study, or old cunts unable to make it down the post office for a chat (....). And it does seem to be getting a bit tedious to me too although that might just be a natural phase. Too many doctors moaning about how shit their work schedule is and about the end of the world; before that it was too many teachers moaning about how shit their jobs are, and the end of the world.. The training thread is full of people paying Tommy a hundred quid to tell them they aren't fit enough for their 8a proj, which is the end of the world...
Throw in bollocks threads like this one and it isn't that interesting at the moment.
I realise you don't have to read the threads that don't interest you but slack time needs filling somehow.
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Throw in bollocks threads like this one
Knob!! And there I was thinking that you had some top posts at the moment :P
Still, you raise a good contribution to this thread. Forum is too tedious? Does that put people off?
I always think fora are what you make them....
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Been watching this thread with interest. My 2p.
I suspect this forum feels not very diverse, because in all honestly bouldering is not that diverse. Its getting more diverse, but still the vast majority of boulders are men in there 20-40s and white. That isn't wrong that is just the reality. Therefore its unsuprising the forum has that feel, but as long as we don't actively discourage newer users then i don't see a problem.
Secondly, the value and content of a forum inherently relies on its users. Unlike other websites where people can drive certain agendas/topics by writing articles, promoting certain products etc. Forums contain only user-generated content. I think UKB is popular since it generates a certain tpye of content for (and because of) its user. Which can't be found elsewhere (i.e. 'grubby little edifice'). Therefore I guess if you encourage new users, it will envitably change, but maybe not for the better.
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Knob!!
I've had to read about what's been going on on here recently to understand your avatar Fiend. At first I just though that you'd had an epiphany and used a small knob as it was appropriate.
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Be Careful what you wish for ....
Twitter abuse - '50% of misogynistic tweets from women'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36380247
People are people and I'm not sure of the genders of some of the regular posters on here. Obviously fairly certain of others. Not a frigging clue about Ethnicity except assumptions for which I have flimsy justifications. There seems to be a broad selection of employment/social backgrounds. There are also way more visitors than I realised. Tapatalk has that "who's online" thing (slightly creepy) and it's surprising how many usernames I don't recognise. Clicked on a few and saw they'd been registered for several years.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Tapatalk has that "who's online" thing (slightly creepy) and it's surprising how many usernames I don't recognise. Clicked on a few and saw they'd been registered for several years.
You can also see what people are doing on it, that's so creepy.... :alien:
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All forums have a large number of lurkers who never post. It's normal.
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This threads got 99 posts and...
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This threads got 99 posts and...
....you're still a tit? :)
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This threads got 99 posts and...
....you're still a tit? :)
Bell end ;)
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to me ukb has always embodied what i think makes the british climbing scene great. its not about clique and who climbs hardest. its about personality and passion. the "scene" has never been entirely about climbing hard, theres always been the guy (or gal) with the witty banter, the guy that gets completely trollyed at every party, the guys that almost pushes the boat out a little too far every time they go tradding.
i know or have met a number of people on here and its not because of some clique. its because they are passionate enough about climbing, their at the wall all the time, the people who have searched around for hours to find the only dry rock in a hundred miles, the people driving to different venues every week or going to esoteric crags for that one belting problem, or like in my case dumb enough to work on the ropes just so they can have more time to go climbing.
theres a fuck ton of interesting, intelligent, amusing and passionate people posting on here, puts the drivel on most forums to shame in my opinion.
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I agree with Ferret.
Every active forum has a core group that sets the tone. Call it a clique if you like. UKB's clique mostly consists of active, well informed and capable climbers, more so than any other climbing forum I've looked at.
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I agree with Ferret.
Every active forum has a core group that sets the tone. Call it a clique if you like. UKB's clique mostly consists of active, well informed and capable climbers, more so than any other climbing forum I've looked at.
Agree with both, although the term clique is probably not appropriate, group consciousness or hive mind might be better. One thing in common is that just about everyone here is passionate about climbing in some form or another. Just reading power club and the amount of effort some people put in to get better is enough to keep me going.
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:hug: = ferret
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:hug: = ferret
That's possible beastiality. I'd check the T&C's if I were you...
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I'm a somewhat recent face to the forum so I have no idea about the past but generally I don't think the forum is anti-women or anything like that. Like a few other people have said in the earlier replies, when I was in school (I'm 'only' 27 now) it was standard practise to call things/people you didn't like gay, as well as the whole laundry list of anti-gay slurs. Quite rightly I think most people agree this really isn't acceptable, so I must admit I'm still bemused why Mark S' avatar was considered 'okay' by an admitted minority.
The fact that one gay person somewhere isn't offended by the term has absolutely no bearing on on it. You could walk up to any gay person in the world and I'm 99% certain they wouldn't enjoy being called that, so why not have some class and use a 'better' insult?
One of the main things I like about UKB is the sarcasm, irony, verbal fencing and general extremely dry sense of humour that most people have on here. I would hate for that to change. I've had some absolutely brilliant laughs lurking on some of the threads. In conclusion: Long live 'old school' humour, down with the using/defending certain language to appear cool or un-PC (that's the only possible motivation I can assign to that stuff, seriously)... :thumbsup:
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Seriously? People think that someone like me, who doesn't think that fag is a bad insult, says that to appear anti-pc and cool? To be fair I could use "well done" to sound like the worst insult you've ever heard. When I hear the word fag I picture a 7 year old boy sat warming a toilet seat for a 15 year old boy at public school. Call me naive which I can assure you I'm not but I actually have no idea how this relates to someone gay and I'm not really sure where the link is?
To be picky your paragraph from "The fact..." Is contradictory so I have no idea what you're trying to say with it?
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Call me naive which I can assure you I'm not but I actually have no idea how this relates to someone gay and I'm not really sure where the link is?
Apparently for use of faggot and queer we can blame early 20th century American gay men insulting other gay men they considered too effeminate. No-one seems to know why. No link to public school fags or bundles of firewood..
Edit to include source:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2112/how-did-faggot-get-to-mean-male-homosexual
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Cheers Chris, that's made my day.
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Seriously? People think that someone like me, who doesn't think that fag is a bad insult, says that to appear anti-pc and cool? To be fair I could use "well done" to sound like the worst insult you've ever heard. When I hear the word fag I picture a 7 year old boy sat warming a toilet seat for a 15 year old boy at public school. Call me naive which I can assure you I'm not but I actually have no idea how this relates to someone gay and I'm not really sure where the link is?
I didn't go to a public school, but even at the state grammar school I went to in the 70s it was common to call the younger kids "fags". I'd more or less forgotten about it. Nothing to do with insulting homosexuals - "bum chum" iirc was the charming term for that.
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What a joke, defending using homophobic language by pretending it means something else or stating that the people it insults use the terms also (this happens with racism to) I'm not bothered what you guys want to write, but Dense's posts are utter shite. We all know what Mark's avatar means and if the forum allows it then that's his prerogative if he wants to come across like that. The defence of it sounds like Nick Griffin or some similar twat trying justify their prejudices.
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You're not going to post again are you boredboy?
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Ok so that might have been harsh. Sorry dude. It just seems weird to me that you guys are defending it like it's ok. Signing off again.......
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Who do you imagine is defending what?
The fact that "fag" used to have an entirely different meaning in English, and that the meaning in Mark's avatar is a newfangled Americanism, has nothing to do with whether one finds the usage of the newfangled American meaning offensive. Which as it happens I do, mildly.
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Wow. Who'd have thought a post about what's wrong with the culture of this community could be so clearly highlighted within the thread itself. It's all so aggressive/defensive. If people are serious about wanting new input and members in UKB then they need to consider how they'd have these conversations in a face to face situation and change the ferocity of their dialogue. No one ever comes around to your way of thinking by being mean and dismissive of others. It just makes people upset (see karma grading thread) and have a lower opinion of (yet?) another member of the community.
Cliques are bullshit BTW. This isn't some U.S. teen drama. They're perceived in this way as far as I can see. There's a bunch of people who aren't confident enough to feel at ease in a community, and another bunch who are at ease and don't notice that those people feel that way.
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Faggot was a bunch of sticks used for burning which split into a bunch of meanings.
Fag, slang for cigarette (also as dense mentioned, a junior who does certain duties for a senior)
Faggot, contemptuous term for an old or worthless woman, as in something that has to be carried. This then became a term for homosexuals in America in the early 1900's, presumably as a reference to their effeminate nature. Another theory being that homosexuals were burnt in some circumstances.
Never a word I've ever used much, though fag was always my go to word for cigarette.
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I remember arriving (on a Frigate) in New York ~'89, going ashore with a few mates, including a young Cockney lad on his first foreign. Hopping in a Cab at the dock gate, the Cabbie was chain smoking and the lad leaned forward, tapped him on the shoulder and said "Can I bum a Fag mate?"
We had to walk.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I really can't be bothered with sifting through forums where things like the following are the norm: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/do-essential-oils-damage-climbing-ropes/111876424
Thanks, I enjoyed reading that thread.
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Faggot was a bunch of sticks used for burning which split into a bunch of meanings.
Fag, slang for cigarette (also as dense mentioned, a junior who does certain duties for a senior)
Faggot, contemptuous term for an old or worthless woman, as in something that has to be carried. This then became a term for homosexuals in America in the early 1900's, presumably as a reference to their effeminate nature. Another theory being that homosexuals were burnt in some circumstances.
Never a word I've ever used much, though fag was always my go to word for cigarette.
Plus
(http://300bps.org/gallery3/downloadfullsize/send/17715)
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Maybe we need a pariah. Someone to take the blame and punterings for everyone elses bad behaviour. We've had a few over the years, but none recently. Hands up anyone?
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Maybe we need a pariah. Someone to take the blame and punterings for everyone elses bad behaviour. We've had a few over the years, but none recently. I'll put my Hand up
Well volunteered.
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Maybe we need a pariah. Someone to take the blame and punterings for everyone elses bad behaviour. We've had a few over the years, but none recently. I'll put my Hand up
Well volunteered.
Tenses stomach. "Hit me!"
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Fiend, sort your fucking signature out. I'm trying to look at UKB on my lunch break and my colleagues aren't going to appreciate me having "cunt" splashed in massive letters all over my screen.
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Fiend, sort your fucking signature out. I'm trying to look at UKB on my lunch break and my colleagues aren't going to appreciate me having "cunt" splashed in massive letters all over my screen.
+1, although I suspect that's the whole point.
Fiend, stop being such a wiener.
:hug:
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I can honestly say that I've made some of my best friends through this site over the past decade or so. I've had trips to Italy, Switzerland, parties across the UK, advice, received free stuff, given free stuff, invitations, the list goes on. I'm certain that without it, life would have been a lot duller.
I tend not to find time to read through too many topics at the moment and have been on a climbing hiatus over the last 14 months. Despite this, I've always come to the site for advice and discussion about other life interests I have and I know that I can dip back in to climbing and 'the scenes' whenever I might like. I'd even get some good advice about coming back to it (as tends to be a popular thread subject) if I wanted it through use of UKB.
The moderation/abuse/inappropriate content theme seems to be almost a separate subject in some ways and on a personal level, I'll continue to uphold a tolerant and welcoming disposition to all those that I meet here or outside of the forum. I'm all for riffing and expect to get what I might like to give - vinegar in flapper wounds excepted. It's a good way to be in life generally I think and it's definitely a good demeanor to have if you embrace the culture of UKB (manifesto anybody?).
As for the clique debate; I thought Dave's pub analogy was the best. You really do get out of life what you put into it and if you neck your half pint and leave in fear, you'll have missed a lot of opportunities. One love.
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Fiend, sort your fucking signature out. I'm trying to look at UKB on my lunch break and my colleagues aren't going to appreciate me having "cunt" splashed in massive letters all over my screen.
I'm against any move to force Fiend to come across as any less of a childish cunt, if that's what he wants to do. ;)
And I'm defo against gentrifying ukb on the grounds that office workers might risk social embarassment in front of their office colleagues (who have nothing to do with ukb/climbing) by seein a rude word on their office computer. Read it on your phone at work if bad language is a potential problem for you.
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Many people who don't use UKB because of its culture - why, and how to fix??
Can be fixed by not doing daft things like that for starters.
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As a relative newcomer I've followed most of this debate from the start without really getting involved. But I don't have anything better to do so...
I quite like the fact this is a forum where people can say want they want. It's a bit like life in that sense, particularly the kind of life where you just chat with your friends. Some of my friends occasionally say incredibly offensive things, usually when they know that no one present will take offence or fail to get the joke.
For the most part this forum is hilarious, the debate is intelligent and the people friendly and helpful. Some of the banter might border on the seemingly aggressive, fiends responses to anyone who he views as patronising for example, which could come across as off putting. I don't personally care, but I can see why some might not appreciate that side of the culture.
As for the rest of this debate I think it's been frankly ridiculous that anyone ever tried to defend using the word 'faggot' in a non homophobic way when it just obviously is. I also think this whole 'rights' bullshit has been laughable. It comes across like a child who has been told by their parents how to behave, and is now at the age when they realise they can actually behave however they want with little consequence. Who gives a shit about your right to offend? By virtue of that right you accept people will or may be offended and then they have a right to respond. Maybe they will do they by telling you to stop being offensive. Maybe you will refuse to do that. But they have as much as a right to take offence as you do to cause it, so don't get all up yourself at the infringement on your fucking civil liberties.
Don't get me wrong, I often laugh at the offensive jokes my friends make in private either directed at me or others (probably I'm a bad person too), but I just don't see rights as an issue. It's not about denying Fiend the right to use the word 'cunt' in massive letters and forcing him to change it, it's just about asking him if it would because it might make people's lives a bit easier. Whats wrong with Will just asking Fiend to change his signature? Doesn't force him to do anything.
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Has he flounced off then?
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Has he flounced off then?
Trying to get that dick shaped tattoo his avatar was based on removed from his forehead... ;)
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Best reply of the thread Monk, couldn't agree more :thumbsup:
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Has he flounced off then?
Hopefully not. Fiend, I was only joking when I called you a wiener. :sorry:
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He's probably fucked off to get consoled by sloper.
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I also think this whole 'rights' bullshit has been laughable. It comes across like a child who has been told by their parents how to behave, and is now at the age when they realise they can actually behave however they want with little consequence. Who gives a shit about your right to offend? By virtue of that right you accept people will or may be offended and then they have a right to respond. Maybe they will do they by telling you to stop being offensive. Maybe you will refuse to do that. But they have as much as a right to take offence as you do to cause it, so don't get all up yourself at the infringement on your fucking civil liberties.
It's not about denying Fiend the right to use the word 'cunt' in massive letters and forcing him to change it, it's just about asking him if it would because it might make people's lives a bit easier. Whats wrong with Will just asking Fiend to change his signature? Doesn't force him to do anything.
I agree with all that except I'd say that asking people to tone down what they write on ukb because it risks offending their office colleagues - who may catch a glimpse on their work PC at lunch - isn't any sort of valid justification for asking someone to tone down what they write on here imo. Pointing out (as you do) that having cunt written in massive bold letters on your signature thing makes Fiend come across as childish and petulant, sure.
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I've been posting to UKB for a few months, but have been browsing for a lot longer. I agree with Monk on pretty much everything, but here's my thoughts...
I use UKB because:
1) It's less full of shit than UKC - people who post here actually know what they're talking about, the wiki is gold-dust, and power club actually has people with power that motivates me to keep training.
2) It's more full of shit than UKC - people who post actually say what they mean, and say it the way you would to your mates. 99% of the time it's more fun.
I think there is a cliquey-ness to it. Couple of years ago I looked at UKB as being full of mega-wads crushing, and felt like I didn't have anything to add. Now I'm slightly stronger, know some stuff, and realised who gives a shit. I'll just post and see what happens (aka joining the pub table and not grabbing my coat and leaving).
Part of this does come from the fact that the UKB population is more elite. Whether it's on purpose or not, a noob punter is going to feel more at home at UKC than UKB. I don't think that's a problem. There isn't active discrimination against anyone joining in.
I personally think that some of the "offensive" things because discussed here shouldn't be in an online forum. I'm not offended by avatars or signatures that have existed here. At the same time I can see why some might find them offensive or distasteful, and I don't see why the negative is in removing them. To continue the pub metaphor, would we be happy shouting those words out in a pub?
Anyways, that's my rambling opinion.
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Note to anyone: if people's avatars or signatures on the desktop version of the site get on your nerves you can turn them off via a setting I think.
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Note to anyone: if people's avatars or signatures on the desktop version of the site get on your nerves you can turn them off via a setting I think.
Correct. No more optimistically sized flaccid members on my screen.
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Avatars yes. Signatures too?
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Avatars yes. Signatures too?
I sense a slight air of disappointment after all the effort you put into yours.
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Pretty sure there is (or was) an option for signatures off, might be wrong.
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Pretty sure there is (or was) an option for signatures off, might be wrong.
There is.
Go to: Profile > Forum Profile
Then there's a dropdown list under 'Modify Profile' (highlighted in orange) and choose 'Look and Layout'
There are tickboxes to select 'Don't show users' avatars' and 'Don't show users' signatures'
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I've had signatures turned off for years so I've no idea what Fiend's even is. Seems like a bit of a strange idea, like someone telling you the same joke at the end of every sentence.
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I can't bring myself to turn them off because I would've missed NCB's "reached into the dark and pulled out a crimp"
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I've had signatures turned off for years so I've no idea what Fiend's even is. Seems like a bit of a strange idea, like someone telling you the same joke at the end of every sentence.
Or like the UKC trend of having your name above but still finding the need to sign off:
Paul B.
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Arse. I was really looking forward to seeing Fiend's reaction when he finally noticed that the mods had been incrementally shrinking his cock day by day (took him five iterations to notice apparently)!
Was away in Scotland and missed the reaction. Goddamn.
Fiend - Assuming you are lurking. Really I thought you were getting annoyed with UKB being too PC and now you get upset because of knob-shrinkage prank?! Personally I thought it was classic UKB.
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I've had signatures turned off for years so I've no idea what Fiend's even is. Seems like a bit of a strange idea, like someone telling you the same joke at the end of every sentence.
At least the signatures on here aren't as bad as some you see on photo forums, where some folk use it to list every single camera and lens they own, in many cases making the signature ten times as long as the actual post.
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I've had signatures turned off for years so I've no idea what Fiend's even is. Seems like a bit of a strange idea, like someone telling you the same joke at the end of every sentence.
At least the signatures on here aren't as bad as some you see on photo forums, where some folk use it to list every single camera and lens they own, in many cases making the signature ten times as long as the actual post.
Yes - a reflection of how UN gear obsessed boulderers are compared to other sports/pastimes.
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Ha!
Petejh.
Purple dragon cam
green dragon cam
red dragon cam
yellow dragon cam
orange metolius no.1 cam
4 120cm slings
2 sets of wires 1-10
5.10 whites
sportiva genius
a harness
etc..
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Unfortunately there's no option I've found to show/hide power club though.
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Be your home screen if it said Technique Club tho
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Was wondering where Fiend had got to..
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/35689bcd5d84c98e6a506a417458b959.jpg)
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Was wondering where Fiend had got to..
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/35689bcd5d84c98e6a506a417458b959.jpg)
bloody hell, not posting in the Balls to Fiend football thread anymore
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Just 36 hours to go till his ban is lifted
(http://www.mattgoodwinlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Time-Bomb.jpg)
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I noticed in that Careless Talk podcast they chatted about UKB and said it suffers from anonymity causing people to write stuff they wouldn't say face-to-face.
My impression is that people on here don't do much to conceal who they really are and other climbers probably could quickly find out. I've wittered on plenty about how I've not agreed with much derogatory "bants" I've seen on here. I'm not convinced though that (the minimal anyway) anonymity has much to do with it.
I was interested though that the podcast host seemed to think there might be something to fix.
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I guess people who self promote on various online channels may have a significantly different view from people who don't on anonymity? It's a personal preference thing I think, and for me it isn't so I can slag off whoever with impunity, but the risk/reward of posting under my real name isn't worth it.
Maybe I'm in a bit of denial as working out who I am would be fairly trivial for anyone who was bothered, but I guess it doesn't immediately pop up in a Google search for example.
Platforms like Instagram can offer equal amounts of anonymity, it is just less apparent a lot of the time.
I think the option of anonymity is a good thing in general though.
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I'm surprised at that tbh, I only know a few people on here in person but I don't think there are many people thst *use* anonymity to hide behind.
Were still a good way from UKC!
But aye, people come and people go, but I guess it maybe does feel like some regulars have moved away and not so many have taken their place.
I used to really appreciate the fact that a lot of really top end boulders were on here giving advice etc.
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Interesting one :-\
Not sure that focusing on anonymity is the key to highlighting/fixing {if you feel UKB is broken} things.
I certainly do Not post as much as i used to, finding UKB to a bit.....erm Judgey?
Perhaps we could be more generous with our comments, remembering that {Bots aside} we are all human.
I always found Aiden to be a nice lad, fairly thoughtful in what he does.
Recently watched Adam's repeat of Bon Voyage and was saddened {mentioned in another thread} by James Pearsons very real hang-up on a mistake he made some 15 years previous. Maybe if we all had waited and let the dust settle at the time, Dave could have had a simple conversation face to face with him, allowing the younger man room to rethink/readjust and move on without the pain of mob rule.
Anyway that's all, carry on :)
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Recently watched Adam's repeat of Bon Voyage and was saddened {mentioned in another thread} by James Pearsons very real hang-up on a mistake he made some 15 years previous. Maybe if we all had waited and let the dust settle at the time, Dave could have had a simple conversation face to face with him, allowing the younger man room to rethink/readjust and move on without the pain of mob rule.
Complete agreement on this, but I think it’s a function of the sense of remove from the impact of your speech on the internet, not this forum per se. And offensive comments people would bottle to say to your face? Behind a keyboard, not a moniker, is the reason imo
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I know a fair number of the old guard that quite possibly lurk a little still, and their reasons for not posting etc are not a product of any change on the UKb side, just more that they have for one reason or another, much less time on their hand than they used to. Increased job responsibility, kids, etc etc. Along with a general desire to wean themselves away from what can amount to inorndinate amounts of time online, arguing the toss over something essentially trivial, albeit often funny in UKb's case.
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
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I do not understand why people use google-able nicks on forums.
Any human can figure out who I am, if they want to (or just ask me if not). But reversely I certainly don't want my nicks on socials to be easily googleable.
This is not hard to understand.
(And nicks don't change much what people are willing to commit to text. The worst flame-war I've seen on a forum chiefly involved two friends with opposite view-points who lived on different floors in the same apartement building.)
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I do not understand why people use google-able nicks on forums.
Any human can figure out who I am, if they want to (or just ask me if not). But reversely I certainly don't want my nicks on socials to be easily googleable.
This is not hard to understand.
(And nicks don't change much what people are willing to commit to text. The worst flame-war I've seen on a forum chiefly involved two friends with opposite view-points who lived on different floors in the same apartement building.)
I agree with you to some extent, but I do think being transparent and public causes many people to stop and think -is this really a statement I want to be associated with? -and if not ought I really to be making it?
Probably not relevant here, but I think if there is some issue regarding public policy or whatever, then having real people publicly putting forward a viewpoint, makes that viewpoint a lot more compelling -to me anyway. I realise it's not a universal privilege to be able to safely do that though.
Regarding Google-able social media presence, before I had any social media accounts, I was emailed by someone I knew through work who lives in California. He congratulated me on getting up a climb. I was baffled. He sent me a link to an affectionate piss-take someone had written on UKC. It had my full name (I'm probably the only person with that name).
What struck me is that the author evidently was aware that Google-ability was an issue since the author had himself used a nom-de-plume. I was initially a bit spooked because his nom-de-plume seemed like an actual name but not someone I knew of. I thought there was someone out there who knew all about me who I hadn't a clue about. Over a decade later, that piss-take is still there, so I have no hope of hiding what I'm really like (not that I could realistically anyway :) ). https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/stone_climbs_stone-430503
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...
I agree with you to some extent, but I do think being transparent and public causes many people to stop and think -is this really a statement I want to be associated with? -and if not ought I really to be making it?
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I have no problem with my statements being associated with my name, but it's an unecessary distraction when students who are beginner climbers figure out how much I climb and at what level (thanks google...).
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I noticed in that Careless Talk podcast they chatted about UKB and said it suffers from anonymity causing people to write stuff they wouldn't say face-to-face.
My impression is that people on here don't do much to conceal who they really are and other climbers probably could quickly find out. I've wittered on plenty about how I've not agreed with much derogatory "bants" I've seen on here. I'm not convinced though that (the minimal anyway) anonymity has much to do with it.
I was interested though that the podcast host seemed to think there might be something to fix.
I think it's one of those beliefs that seems like "common sense", that of course people must be more prone to being abusive if they're anonymous online and that forcing people to use their legal names would improve that -- but research keeps on not showing that, especially when it comes to communities with "persistent pseudonyms" (like UKB).
A friend of mine has worked in the field that's now usually called Trust & Safety (formerly known as Abuse) for decades, and this is one of the topics that makes her go feral.
A few samples of the research:
https://coralproject.net/blog/the-real-name-fallacy/
https://globalnews.ca/news/2855416/forget-anonymity-internet-trolls-are-more-abusive-when-using-their-real-names-study-finds/ -- reporting on https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0155923
https://techcrunch.com/2012/07/29/surprisingly-good-evidence-that-real-name-policies-fail-to-improve-comments
I agree with you to some extent, but I do think being transparent and public causes many people to stop and think -is this really a statement I want to be associated with? -and if not ought I really to be making it?
Consider how that applies to anyone who wants to discuss, say, being LGBTQ+, experiences of mental illness or neurodiversity, being a survivor of sexual trauma or domestic violence, experiences of discrimination, etc. etc. etc..
There are a lot of things that people might very understandably want and need to be able to discuss without necessarily wanting it to come up instantly when a potential employer -- or a stalker, or a violent ex -- Googles their name.
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I don’t believe that having to use your real name would have a positive affect on ‘the culture’ on this or any other forum. I am not a big forum user, my experiences are limited mostly to UKB, UKC and singletrackworld (a mountain bike forum), and can only speak based on personal experience, but I find this forum to be better than most, and I think the main reason for this is the relative small number of forum users.
A larger number of people gives any single individual gives a greater degree of anonymity, whether on a forum or in real life. As a analogy, if you lived in a big city you could spend your days acting like a dick, and it may rarely come back to bite you; if you live in a small village it’s only going to be a matter of time before your reputation becomes known to one and all, or find yourself in the only shop / pub / whatever being served by the individual you were being a dick to the day before.
Needing to use your name would also surely either be open to abuse (if you wish to act like a dick them simply register an account as Fred Bloggs and off you go), or require the sort of proof of identity that would mire any forum admin in all manner of GDPR issues, and frankly make most users unlikely to use the forum in the first place (would you bother registering with a forum if it required you to upload your passport or driving licence?)
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I noticed in that Careless Talk podcast they chatted about UKB and said it suffers from anonymity causing people to write stuff they wouldn't say face-to-face.
My impression is that people on here don't do much to conceal who they really are and other climbers probably could quickly find out. I've wittered on plenty about how I've not agreed with much derogatory "bants" I've seen on here. I'm not convinced though that (the minimal anyway) anonymity has much to do with it.
I was interested though that the podcast host seemed to think there might be something to fix.
Also yeah, I think for most of us who use the board a lot, the "anonymity" here is very limited in relation to other forum users. Just off the top of my head, I can think of multiple other UKB users who've climbed with me and who know my real name and where I live.
What it does mean is that, for example, someone who's heard of me by my real name in another context can't Google me and immediately find this forum and me, say, discussing how exactly many meds I need to take to manage my depression. Because that's information which feels somewhat personal.