UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => MoonBoard => Topic started by: shark on April 04, 2016, 01:49:32 pm
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What a frickin brilliant innovation - especially for those like me befuddled when confronted with a woodie with an immediate desire to run for the hills
Anyone used this down the schoolroom yet ? How well does it work in pracrice
Reviewed by Robin of Greenwood on UKC: www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=8014
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Anyone used this down the schoolroom yet ?
It's been up all winter and I've never seen anyone on it. Mind you that was the case before the lights were fitted too.
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What a frickin brilliant innovation - especially for those like me befuddled when confronted with a woodie with an immediate desire to run for the hills
I'm curious if it was Saquatch's mate Chad who first did this out in Alaska that has stimulated its subsequent development and incorporation into the official Moon Board.
Saquatch's post about it here in the forum bringing attention to it (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20459.msg472621.html#msg472621) is dated the same as a post on the Moon Blog about it (http://www.moonclimbing.com/blog/2015/01/lightening-up-a-moon-board/). Both are 16th January 2015.
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Anyone used this down the schoolroom yet ?
It's been up all winter and I've never seen anyone on it. Mind you that was the case before the lights were fitted too.
Ben is on it every time I go in for lunch. The app is pretty cool - you just swipe across problems and the lights change on the board.
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What a frickin brilliant innovation - especially for those like me befuddled when confronted with a woodie with an immediate desire to run for the hills
I'm curious if it was Saquatch's mate Chad who first did this out in Alaska that has stimulated its subsequent development and incorporation into the official Moon Board.
Saquatch's post about it here in the forum bringing attention to it (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20459.msg472621.html#msg472621) is dated the same as a post on the Moon Blog about it (http://www.moonclimbing.com/blog/2015/01/lightening-up-a-moon-board/). Both are 16th January 2015.
Chad developed the system Ben is using. it says so in the video in the UKC article.
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They should have LEDs built into the holds, you could then have the electrical connections made via the t-nuts/bolts. Suppose it'd be a pain if the LEDs blew though...
Good idea, it could be the thing that makes the moon board more accessible, I mean, who actually wants to remember sequences?!
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Having LEDs in the t-nuts (or next to the t-nuts and having transparent holds) would also free up a hell of a lot more space for more holds. If I was building one of these as my own sole home board I'd be wanting about double or triple the hold density of the moonboard for a board that size.
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Put these on a moon board and it would look very smart...
http://www.luxov-connect.com/?lang=EN
:geek:
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Chad developed the system Ben is using. it says so in the video in the UKC article.
Thanks, I hadn't watched the video because...
(https://i.imgur.com/lcKYruS.png)
...and on Vimeo...
(http://i.imgur.com/G9HxCSA.png)
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It seems like quite a nice idea but seems to require someone having made the board to the exact moon board spec with all three sets of moon board holds?
Plus it isn't exactly a cheap bit of kit for a home board.
Presumably the moon board thing also means you can exclusively use moon holds?
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It seems like quite a nice idea but seems to require someone having made the board to the exact moon board spec with all three sets of moon board holds?
Plus it isn't exactly a cheap bit of kit for a home board.
Presumably the moon board thing also means you can exclusively use moon holds?
you need to build a 40 degree board. You need at least one set of the moon holds.
I wouldn't go for this because it's a bit overkill. But I understand there is a growing community of people/climbing walls who have built moon boards and contribute to the online database of problems. Ben's a business man, he obviously thinks he'll be able to sell a few, perhaps climbing walls is his target market.
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you need to build a 40 degree board. You need at least one set of the moon holds.
I wouldn't go for this because it's a bit overkill. But I understand there is a growing community of people/climbing walls who have built moon boards and contribute to the online database of problems. Ben's a business man, he obviously thinks he'll be able to sell a few, perhaps climbing walls is his target market.
Yeah I was a bit confused about the 1000 problems thing as there is only 150 problems on the moon board website (which you need all three sets of holds to do). Are these just pre-programmed problems?
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There are various standard placements for each set of holds and then people have made various problems based on those. Each hold has a "North arrow" on it so if you've built a to-spec Moon Board you can orientate the holds according to the standard placement quite accurately. Some of the problems in the database will use holds from one, two, or all three of the individual sets of holds.
I have a 40 degree board (shorter than a real Moon Board) so bought the moon holds as they were designed for that angle. My problem with the concept is that it uses a feet-follow-hands format. Obviously no right thinking person would actually do this so I use screw ons for feet. Even if I had the space to build a Moon board (I can see a huge benefit of sharing psyche and problems with lots and lots of people) I would be reluctant to use it in the way intended purely because of the feet-follow-hands issue.
I think boards work best when there is a regular scene of people using them. You need other people to set different problems to generate the element of competition and psyche. It keeps things interesting. This is where the Moon Board comes in
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My problem with the concept is that it uses a feet-follow-hands format. Obviously no right thinking person would actually do this so I use screw ons for feet.
Why not. Using hands for feet is good for training. Using screw ons only is also good for training.
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So you don't get nasty horrible boot rubber on the precious expensive holds.
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My problem with the concept is that it uses a feet-follow-hands format. Obviously no right thinking person would actually do this so I use screw ons for feet.
Why not. Using hands for feet is good for training. Using screw ons only is also good for training.
+1
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There are various standard placements for each set of holds and then people have made various problems based on those. Each hold has a "North arrow" on it so if you've built a to-spec Moon Board you can orientate the holds according to the standard placement quite accurately. Some of the problems in the database will use holds from one, two, or all three of the individual sets of holds.
So you do need all three sets of holds and maybe to change round the holds to play?
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So you do need all three sets of holds and maybe to change round the holds to play?
This (http://www.moonclimbing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/MoonBoard.pdf), this (http://www.moonboard.com/setups/) and this (http://www.moonboard.com/problems/) probably answers the majority of your questions about construction/setup.
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No it doesn't that is why I was asking.
The video makes reference to >1000 problems, but there are only 160 on the website (which you need all 3 sets of holds for), so are they something you get with the LEDs?
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As far as I can tell no one you are asking actually has a Moonboard with LEDs themselves to be able to answer your question.
You could try installing the application (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.moonclimbing.moonboard&hl=en_GB) (for free) to see if the database holds the stated number of problems you are querying.
Failing that try the horses mouth at @moonclimbing (https://twitter.com/moonclimbing). If he doesn't know no one else will.
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There are various standard placements for each set of holds and then people have made various problems based on those. Each hold has a "North arrow" on it so if you've built a to-spec Moon Board you can orientate the holds according to the standard placement quite accurately. Some of the problems in the database will use holds from one, two, or all three of the individual sets of holds.
So you do need all three sets of holds and maybe to change round the holds to play?
My understanding is that if you wanted to climb every single problem then you would need to have all three sets of holds and would need to arrange them in various different ways.
However, if you only had one set of holds then there should be plenty of options still open to you - those problems which climb using only the particular set of holds that you bought. I'm afraid that's where my knowledge runs out. I couldn't advise you on the % split between problems that use the various combinations of hold sets A/B/C/AB/AC/BC/ABC.
Hopefully you could tell the app which sets of holds you had, and what standard arrangement you had them set up in, and it would filter the problems accordingly and show you only the ones you could climb. Then you could sort them by grade/votes on quality etc
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As far as I can tell no one you are asking actually has a Moonboard with LEDs themselves to be able to answer your question.
You could try installing the application (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.moonclimbing.moonboard&hl=en_GB) (for free) to see if the database holds the stated number of problems you are querying.
Failing that try the horses mouth at @moonclimbing (https://twitter.com/moonclimbing). If he doesn't know no one else will.
I am seriously procrastinating here, it would appear that if you turn on all the hold sets on the app, presumably unlocking all possible problems, there is about 160 problems.
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Ben's a business man, he obviously thinks he'll be able to sell a few, perhaps climbing walls is his target market.
You're too smart for your own good James. TCA have just announced they're getting one fitted on the 20th over fb. I'll report back after I've had a play.
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As far as I can tell no one you are asking actually has a Moonboard with LEDs themselves to be able to answer your question.
You could try installing the application (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.moonclimbing.moonboard&hl=en_GB) (for free) to see if the database holds the stated number of problems you are querying.
Failing that try the horses mouth at @moonclimbing (https://twitter.com/moonclimbing). If he doesn't know no one else will.
I am seriously procrastinating here, it would appear that if you turn on all the hold sets on the app, presumably unlocking all possible problems, there is about 160 problems.
On the archive (http://www.moonboard.com/moonboard-archives/) section of the moonboard website there are alternative setups for the different hold sets which looks like it'll give you more problems
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As far as I can tell no one you are asking actually has a Moonboard with LEDs themselves to be able to answer your question.
You could try installing the application (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.moonclimbing.moonboard&hl=en_GB) (for free) to see if the database holds the stated number of problems you are querying.
Failing that try the horses mouth at @moonclimbing (https://twitter.com/moonclimbing). If he doesn't know no one else will.
I am seriously procrastinating here, it would appear that if you turn on all the hold sets on the app, presumably unlocking all possible problems, there is about 160 problems.
On the archive (http://www.moonboard.com/moonboard-archives/) section of the moonboard website there are alternative setups for the different hold sets which looks like it'll give you more problems
Ah well spotted, but they don't appear to be on the app….. presumably will be added at a later date, seems a little disingenuous to me but hey ho, mystery solved.
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Dave, T_B, what's the reason nobody uses the moonboard (except Ben)? I've heard the holds aren't great on the joints/skin, the rest of it seems like a really good system.
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I still think a progammable laser projector might be a more flexible option - and allow for many more holds to be put on the wall
create a JPEG for each problem (use a photo of the wall as a background template with corner markers to get alignment perfect)
https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/Electronic_Gadgets/Laser_Gadgets/Programmable_Laser_Light_Show_System_My_Effect_II_-_Red_Green_and_Purple_Laser_Custom_Annimations/
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Dave, T_B, what's the reason nobody uses the moonboard (except Ben)? I've heard the holds aren't great on the joints/skin, the rest of it seems like a really good system.
Other people's opinions might vary, but the black and white sets of holds I really don't like. The texture is much coarser than most other modern holds, and the pockets in there are about the sharpest indoor pockets I've ever seen. The older yellow set are much better but there's still some sharp shockers in there. The whole concept would work better IMO with guest holds which are nicer.
Plus, it's hard to compete with a 23year old board covered with polished '90s bendcrete holds, sawn-up banister rails, and disintegrating bits of wood pulled out of skips.
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Thanks Dave, that sort of echos what I've heard. Now getting twitchy about this replacing the woody at TCA, which is an excellent punter level board...
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I have the yellow set and generally like them. Two complaints: its ALL crimps; there are a small few of them that are ridiculously, outrageously tweaky (that three finger horn thing, you know the one, who the fuck's idea was that?)
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The white and black holds are perfect for the warmer weather, seem a bit coarser.
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I have a moonboard in my garden built to the specs.
I only have the Black and white holds, The texture is a bit coarse but to be honest I think the angle demands a bit of texture so I can hold on to the bloody things. Yes some of the pockets are a bit sharp, but you get used to them.
I won't be able to put the leds on, whilst its weatherproof I worry that over time the damp weather/fog/mist. It would make like easier but I'm managing fine just looking at my phone and seeing the sequence on that.
The only negative about the moonboard is the frigging sandbagging of grades by certain climbers. I honestly feel that if you can't grade something properly don't post it. These arent 8b/8c problems that are going to start a big debate in magazines and on website forums if they are a bit out. It just gives the impression that you want people to think that you are a beast that climbs at such a level they have forgotten what 6a-6c feels like, when in actual fact you are posting 7a-7b problems max and calling all of them 6a.
Ahhh, i feel better for that.
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Thanks Dave, that sort of echos what I've heard. Now getting twitchy about this replacing the woody at TCA, which is an excellent punter level board...
It is, and it wont trash your skin/tendons like a moon board. Please please don't just keep it to yourself, email/pester TCA and get your chums to do it too. I have done so, but they'll only take notice if lots of people bother to get in contact.
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Sorry 39, if past decisions are anything to go by, then it's a done deal (even more likely seeing as the thing is set to be installed in less than 2 weeks). All we can hope is that the board is moved elsewhere. If not, then hey ho, at least there is a training board, even if the holds aren't ideal. It's not like in Sheffield where you actually need your skin for the grit!
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copied over from powerclub...
I know, not happy about seeing it go :( (although having said that I'm hopeful it may stay in one form or another).
Please email Paul and let him know!!
FWIW (and Paul is on here very occasionally so may reply himself) I saw him this morning when stripping the steep circuit board and they're currently mulling making a less steep woody on the board immediately to the left (ie the old mirrorboard)
Given the relatively low hold density on the MB do you think it'd be possible to add further holds between the MB positions?
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copied over from powerclub...
I know, not happy about seeing it go :( (although having said that I'm hopeful it may stay in one form or another).
Please email Paul and let him know!!
FWIW (and Paul is on here very occasionally so may reply himself) I saw him this morning when stripping the steep circuit board and they're currently mulling making a less steep woody on the board immediately to the left (ie the old mirrorboard)
Given the relatively low hold density on the MB do you think it'd be possible to add further holds between the MB positions?
Hmm, that's a start, although the old mirror board is really not steep enough to make it useful (personally speaking).
I had the same thought about adding holds; can't really comment as it's been a long while since I've seen one in the flesh, but it certainly looks like stuff could be squeezed in.
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I think there are additional holes drilled to hold the LEDs, so probably a no regarding additional holds. I suppose it's just a case of waiting to see what happens, it's certainly a negative that the existing woody has no system being used to log people's climbs and without having other people's problems to try it can get a bit dull. I think the feedback has been mixed enough that I'm willing to be open minded regarding the new board (seeing as it's happening regardless of what everyone thinks).
In reality, the woody users are hardly the people putting the most money into TCAs pockets and it is a business after all.
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what happened to the woody book?
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What a frickin brilliant innovation - especially for those like me befuddled when confronted with a woodie with an immediate desire to run for the hills
I'm curious if it was Saquatch's mate Chad who first did this out in Alaska that has stimulated its subsequent development and incorporation into the official Moon Board.
Saquatch's post about it here in the forum bringing attention to it (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20459.msg472621.html#msg472621) is dated the same as a post on the Moon Blog about it (http://www.moonclimbing.com/blog/2015/01/lightening-up-a-moon-board/). Both are 16th January 2015.
Indeed it was my mate Chad who developed the LED system. The app was done by the Moon guys.
We have a great group using it now and we have sessions every Thursday evening. The board/holds/problems are all a bit funky to get used to, but I know we have all learned alot from using it and gotten far stronger. So far we have learned to like most of the holds on the board. They're all very different so they force you to climb differently.
I have a moonboard in my garden built to the specs.
I only have the Black and white holds, The texture is a bit coarse but to be honest I think the angle demands a bit of texture so I can hold on to the bloody things. Yes some of the pockets are a bit sharp, but you get used to them.
I won't be able to put the leds on, whilst its weatherproof I worry that over time the damp weather/fog/mist. It would make like easier but I'm managing fine just looking at my phone and seeing the sequence on that.
The only negative about the moonboard is the frigging sandbagging of grades by certain climbers. I honestly feel that if you can't grade something properly don't post it. These arent 8b/8c problems that are going to start a big debate in magazines and on website forums if they are a bit out. It just gives the impression that you want people to think that you are a beast that climbs at such a level they have forgotten what 6a-6c feels like, when in actual fact you are posting 7a-7b problems max and calling all of them 6a.
Ahhh, i feel better for that.
Indeed they are sandbagged as S%^&. We have just decided that the grades are fictional and in no way relate to outdoor climbing. One issue that we are having though is that two of the guys we climb with set at the local wall and the grades at the local wall have started to get a bit sandbagged as well. We have been adding new problems and just tried to be consistent with the sandbagged versions.
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Just had a first play on tcas. Pretty good actually, and they've put a woody on the less steep board next to it which looks better than I thought one on this board would. Lights work well too, well done sasquatch and friends.
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The new woody is a very poor substitute for the excellent training facility TCA just removed, but it could end up being useful. If its going to work at all, all the positive grey footholds need to come off and replaced with a ton of utterly terrible smears (like the four metolius splatches they stuck on). Otherwise it'll be pretty redundant.
A bit of a crowd round the new moon board today, but I imagine it'll wear off in a week or two once the LED gimmick gets old. I overheard once young strong thing ask Ben 'are there any funky problems?'. Sums it up I guess. I'm sure i'll use it occasionally after the holds have been used a bit so they're less like holds on dartmoor, but i'm pretty disappointed really.
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(Copy and paste from my reply on fb)
I had a (very) brief play, before being distracted by the bright lights to the right, and thought it was ok. It was never going to substitute for the previous woody, it's 25 ish degrees instead of 40. That said I agree it needs worse footholds, a lot of the greys are way to good.
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Also from a bit of a session on the Moonboard :
The app and lights are good, as are most of the hold shapes (couple of pockets I'll be avoiding) the yellow set are a great texture, black and white are pretty brutal atm (though my skin was shit today) hopefully will improve after a few weeks use.
Grades are pretty harsh, though not as samdbagged as I'd been expecting. Did some really fun problems, and added a few to my lists on the app for future attempts.
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Hopefully you could tell the app which sets of holds you had, and what standard arrangement you had them set up in, and it would filter the problems accordingly and show you only the ones you could climb. Then you could sort them by grade/votes on quality etc
You can do all of this, though currently only for one standard orientation. You can filter by grade range, and setter, and then sort by difficulty, date, or quality. Seems a good app, worthwhile even if you didn't have the LEDs.
Heard Ben chatting about developing a set of wood holds for the moonboard while he was there so if that comes to fruition it'll be great.
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There's a set of wooden holds which have appeared in the schoolroom, as I understand they are ultimately destined for the moonboard as a symetrical set. They are a thousand time better than the existing black/white moon holds, from what I can see. The only downside is that are made of plywood so you gotta wonder how well they will last long term.
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Hmm hope the ply set are just to check the shapes. UK hardwood all the way.
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Well he's just brought out a range of plywood campus rungs, make of that what you will.
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Why wont plywood work. I presume its just a general feeling. Engineered timbers have been pretty much proven to offer the same, if not better, structural capabilities than solid timbers. The only thing they dont perform as well in are when wet or with large temperature changes. We are seeing more and more use of engineered timber in the construction industry replacing steel.
Ben looked for a good while at hard and soft woods but it is very hard to get consistency of timber to make matching sets of holds that are always the same. The plywood gives you that consistency and is just as strong. Its not the same plywood you use to build boards its designed for the purpose.
I think the holds are great and will be as good or better as any other wooden holds. In fact i would go as far to say that the layers in the ply actually add a nice texture to the holds that is missing from hardwood that can often be glassy.
As for the light system and app its genius. There are loads of great boards in the country with Dans at the Eden centre being the best but unless you climb on them regularly or there is a local there to point things out you waste half your session trying to work out where things go. The light system makes it so easy, plus you have an instant database of 400+ problems.
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The light system makes it so easy, plus you have an instant database of 400+ problems.
pedants corner: there are only 250 problems currently on the app, assuming you have all three sets on holds.
There are >1000 problems on the website but that is with lots of different arrangements of holds.
The LEDs seem like a silly gimmick which people lose interest in pretty quickly, plus the moon holds are so coarse you couldn't do a long session on them
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3 problems have been added in the less than 24hrs I've had the app, at that rate it'll have a 1000 by Christmas.
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250 problems since launch 25 days ago. Pretty good I would have thought. Equivalent of the big commercial walls replacing 2 30 problem circuits each week.
And whilst the texture of the white and blacks isn't the best the shapes are good and climb well ( other than the pockets but how many pockets are not painful) I train on them 1-2 times a week in the sweatiest hottest wall in the world. You get used to them and they get more comfy with use.
The yellow set are great, hard and fingery but great.
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Sorry is everyone on smack. This board is shit, the holds are shit the angle is shit the lights are a daft gimmick.
I do really like the concept of a board which can be configured to a universal specification though.
That's just my opinion however don't get your fucking knickers in a twist.
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An enlightening critique. You should get a job with the daily mail.
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Why wont plywood work. I presume its just a general feeling. Engineered timbers have been pretty much proven to offer the same, if not better, structural capabilities than solid timbers. The only thing they dont perform as well in are when wet or with large temperature changes. We are seeing more and more use of engineered timber in the construction industry replacing steel.
I don't doubt that ply has come on a long way. But, if you've got different pieces/types of wood sandwiched together in different orientations of grain then inevitably there's a chance that the different layers will wear at different rates over time.
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We're not talking about macro-engineering properties though are we? I doubt anyone is designing ply to be kind on fingertips. Having said that, many of the holds on my old board were made from marine ply, an old mirror dinghy centreboard in fact. And they were fine.
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250 problems since launch 25 days ago. Pretty good I would have thought. Equivalent of the big commercial walls replacing 2 30 problem circuits each week.
And whilst the texture of the white and blacks isn't the best the shapes are good and climb well ( other than the pockets but how many pockets are not painful) I train on them 1-2 times a week in the sweatiest hottest wall in the world. You get used to them and they get more comfy with use.
The yellow set are great, hard and fingery but great.
I don't think that holds are great, it might just be my fat fingers but i find that the positive holds are far too low volume (ala Holdz) and crush my finger tips. I suppose I just see it as a rather cynical effort to sell some rather sub-par holds which don't fit the bill (because of the shape and because they are resin).
The vast majority of those 250 problems are not new, about 170 were available for this hold set up before the lights and whistles were added.
I agree there is a burst of enthusiasm for the board at the moment but time will tell if it is sustained or just gets forgotten.
I suppose I just see it as a method to sell some rather sub-par holds which don't fit the bill (because of the shape and because they are resin) and hook people into using that brand.
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We're not talking about macro-engineering properties though are we? I doubt anyone is designing ply to be kind on fingertips.
Exactly.
Having said that, many of the holds on my old board were made from marine ply, an old mirror dinghy centreboard in fact. And they were fine.
So good they fostered a lifelong love of board climbing.
I'm hearing great arguments for ply having advantages for the manufacturer - greater consistency, cheaper, ease of manufacture etc. Not seeing that many advantages for the user unless you happen to like the texture and happy to gamble that the layers won't wear unevenly. E.g. I've not felt a plywood campus rung that I would take over the equivalent solid wooded one, unless they were like 1/5th of the cost, which they aren't.
Having said all this, the new Moon ply holds are the best ply hold I've felt (wouldn't be difficult), assuming longterm they don't wear badly. We're into uncharted territory here.
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Fuck me Tim are you upset with Ben because he did High Fidelity quicker than you?
I could have posted that twice for effect ;)
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Fuck me Tim are you upset with Ben because he did High Fidelity quicker than you?
It took Ben 68 seconds to climb High Fidelity. I'm pretty sure Tim's ascent was sub 1 minute. So I don't know what you're on about Dense? Furthermore, who actually cares about speed climbing anyway??
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Fuck me Tim are you upset with Ben because he did High Fidelity quicker than you?
I could have posted that twice for effect ;)
Ha ha I spotted my repetition but couldn't be bothered tweaking it.
I just think the LED thing is a stupid gimmick and the moon holds are not good for training on. Plus I think it was advertised in a rather misleading way.
plus I am not sure he did…… :)
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So do I but people love gimmicks. I had visions of you repeatedly stabbing cadavers after your little outburst! :-*
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It is a gimmick but unlike a lot of gimmicks it's actually a good one and makes finding problems on the board so much easier. I wish the works motherboard had one installed. You should have a go as I have not heard anyone who hasn't used it say it's shit.
The holds are not the best but not as bad as people on here make out. I think the shapes are reasonable but the texture is to rough.
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It is a gimmick but unlike a lot of gimmicks it's actually a good one and makes finding problems on the board so much easier. I wish the works motherboard had one installed. You should have a go as I have not heard anyone who hasn't used it say it's shit.
The holds are not the best but not as bad as people on here make out. I think the shapes are reasonable but the texture is to rough.
My real problem with the lights is that before I could have the board to myself (when it was just made of boring wood), but now every cunt down the wall has to come and have a go like fuckin moths, in the same way that every cunt has to have a go on the circuit board at least once per session for novelty value (no training value, but enough to fuck up my intervals).
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You need a problem on the new LED Moonboard that lights up the words Fuck Off Cunts I'm Training. Actually it'd probably be more of a circuit
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It is a gimmick but unlike a lot of gimmicks it's actually a good one and makes finding problems on the board so much easier. I wish the works motherboard had one installed. You should have a go as I have not heard anyone who hasn't used it say it's shit.
The holds are not the best but not as bad as people on here make out. I think the shapes are reasonable but the texture is to rough.
My real problem with the lights is that before I could have the board to myself (when it was just made of boring wood), but now every cunt down the wall has to come and have a go like fuckin moths, in the same way that every cunt has to have a go on the circuit board at least once per session for novelty value (no training value, but enough to fuck up my intervals).
:lol: I fucking hate other people
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You need a problem on the new LED Moonboard that lights up the words Fuck Off Cunts I'm Training. Actually it'd probably be more of a circuit
Just cover up all the LEDs with tape? Or resin? Or glue? Or human faeces?
Until I checked out the blog I wondered if this was some kind of ongoing April fool. Next thing you know I'll be able to wear a headset to see an avatar guiding me through my yoga positions.
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When I was doing the n.Wales limestone App version I toyed around with the idea of having the option to click a 'beta' tab which would open up footage of a local wad doing the route and perhaps talking through the beta. :lol: It would have to be optional, to preserve the onsight.
Still think there's legs in the idea for app guides, surprised cockfax haven't done it yet. Especially bouldering app guides - it would save trawling around the web for beta if it was in one place as part of a downloadable app guide. You could have different wads demoing different routes/blocs. Pay them minimum wag to film it ;D Actually some would do it for free just to raise their profile :)
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It is a gimmick but unlike a lot of gimmicks it's actually a good one and makes finding problems on the board so much easier. I wish the works motherboard had one installed. You should have a go as I have not heard anyone who hasn't used it say it's shit.
The holds are not the best but not as bad as people on here make out. I think the shapes are reasonable but the texture is to rough.
I have used a moon board without lights and it is shit and as the old saying goes "you can't polish a turd", but Mr moon has put LED lights on it.
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Had a quick play on the TCA moon board today. I quite liked it but as mentioned, there are issues with the texture, hopefully this will improve with time. I was certainly more psyched to have a go then on the woody and I personally quite liked the handholds for feet setup.
Some negatives, the app doesn't work with my version of Android, argh. Am due a new phone though. Not sure what the situation is if multiple people are trying different problems on it, the group who were there first today were changing the light configuration every try so hard to work anything, maybe there's some way that each individual could change it before that pull on but as I couldn't get the app I'm not sure? Thought they might have a LED panel as in the schoolroom for changing the lights when you don't have your phone with you? Will ask TCA the deal.
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I have used a moon board without lights and it is shit and as the old saying goes "you can't polish a turd", but Mr moon has put LED lights on it.
shit is relative. If you live in a place with a minimal number of alternatives, then the moonboard could very likely be the "least shit" option. While I agree that there is some potential for improvement to the moonboard, for those without something better, it can be a really amazing training option.
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If you live in a place with a minimal number of alternatives, then the moonboard could very likely be the "least shit" option.
I would love to see this quote used as marketing/promo copy on official literature.
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I have used a moon board without lights and it is shit and as the old saying goes "you can't polish a turd", but Mr moon has put LED lights on it.
shit is relative. If you live in a place with a minimal number of alternatives, then the moonboard could very likely be the "least shit" option. While I agree that there is some potential for improvement to the moonboard, for those without something better, it can be a really amazing training option.
at TCA we already had something better, then they ripped it out and installed some fairy lights
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at TCA we already had something better, then they ripped it out and installed some fairy lights
I have to agree that the woody was a better board than the new moonboard is and I do feel sorry for the old woody users as the new configuration is nothing like the original - I think I saw someone doing circuits on it, it's that easy in comparison. Shame.
That said, excluding the crappy holds, I do quite like the moonboard.
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So, had another play on TCAs last night, the stupidly rough black and white sets seem to be bedding in ok, might end up being ok on a commercial wall that will see a lot of traffic. Most of the pockets are still horrible though.
The woody has acquired a bunch of poor pink footholds, sash has circled most of the poor grey/brown ones too, I'll try and get them to let me switch some of these to pink too, then we should hopefully end up with something that'll be worthwhile for the keen (pink feet only), but management also get to tell themselves that it's "accessible" (any screw on feet)
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many of the holds on my old board
Jesuschrist!
JB was a cellar dweller! I'm trying to picture him downstairs, under a 55 degree board full of crimps and pinches, with a replica of Hubble and The Fly, psyching himself up with pouding techno and yelling "FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOGAAAAAAAAAAA!!!" in a simil-roid-rage just before yet another go on a three move stamina fest, but my mind... just... can't... Nooooooooooo aaaaaaaaargghhhhhh imgettingmaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddd!
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A) it was a garage, and B) my Dad didn't want it to take up too much room so it was basically vertical, mainly circuits. Once I got everything wired I'd do them in my trainers to get more pump. There were quickdraws in the roof joists to practice clipping, and a tiny campus board above the door.
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Has anyone tried using an LED moonboard with an android phone that uses Marshmallow? My S7 won't connect, though it can see the board as a bluetooth device. Very frustrating.
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Messaged moon via Facebook and they said they're aware of the problem and are working on an update.
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Thought I'd give this thread a prod.
Used a moonboard for the first time at The Boardroom last night and thought it was an ace training tool.
The app now has 2957 problems! There are currently 336 just at 7A-7A+. The lights are a great aid for a dim-wit like me who can't remember more than two moves in advance. The lights also allow you to turn up at a new board after work, tired, and just climb without having to spend time working out probs or having a local show you what probs they've made up.
The grey and black holds are a little coarse sure, but not excessively and they should be fine after traffic. My skin was thin from the weekend but still got on with them. Yellows are great.
Thought the app worked really well - easy to filter to a set of probs by grade, setter, rating, recently set etc. Pretty cool to share Megos, Moon's et al problems. The beauty of the system is in having people from all over the world sharing their probs on a standardised board, genius really.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Next - shared lattice board scores on ukb...
Oh.. and setting an oak throw sequence and traverse replica to get Shark up his proj
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Application is updated today (https://twitter.com/moonclimbing/status/809015703256834048)
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around 10000 users world wide now and close to 1000 boards. New comment feature is really good.
I climb on one all the time and think its great, holds not the best but other than a few are fine. The board i use up here has not got lights but the app works fine without. Great to be able to turn up and have nearly 3000 problems to do. I have done over 250 and was trying to keep up with the new ones at first but no chance now. The only thing i think is bad is that due to the volume of problems it does not make you stick at one project, if you dont do something in a few tries you tend to just swipe right and try the next. But for doing volume on a pretty small board there is nothing better.
Quite a few of the top wads on there as well. megos, woods,ghisolfi and i know of a few more who have bought the holds and lights but not made new problems yet.
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I climb on one all the time
Shit that must be tiring.
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Used the one at the foundry today for the first time and really enjoyed it! Thought the led system was good though as I'm exceedingly stupid I occasionally got a little confused as to whether it was the hold above or below the light I was going to. I personally would have had the light above as then you can see it for feet and hands. But it's no biggie.
I also think an improvement would be screw-one for feet as sometimes it felt a bit stretched or bunched feet following and I found I could sit on big feet occasionally. Plus it might make big moves less jumpy and more techy? Obviously the feet would be small screw-ons though better than the blobs on the motherboard a la works.
A little rough on the tits but nae so bad.
Remember seeing these when I first started climbing (when. Used to spend a lot of time on the moon website watching vids etc) cool to finally have a go.
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A little rough on the tits but nae so bad.
I'm sure Ben will appreciate the feedback. I had heard that nipple protectors were being developed in conjunction with Sublime brushes.
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Haha! Whoops!
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Will the sublime nipple protectors come with a little hidden compartment where I can keep my stash?
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Played around on the board at the Foundry a while back and loved it. I agree with gme that skipping problems after a couple of goes is easy to do.
A couple of a things to add:
I agree with DC. It can be confusing whether the light is above or below the hold in question. I thought perhaps lighting up the bulb above and below the hold would help know it's in whether you're below or above the hold en route.
The free standing board at the foundry doesn't half shake when 14 stone is trying to lay one on the last hold. I swear I bloody missed the last hold once when I rocked and I should've rolled. :lol:
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I think the thing about the lights being above/below the hold seems to be something you'd get used to after the first session on there.
Given the only thing anyone really complains about on the Moonboard is the holds I don't know why Ben doesn't hook up with someone who makes good holds (Axis, Core, whoever) to do a set of really nice comfortable holds for the moonboard, with good texture, that are not all jugs to stand on, and bingo you've turned a good product into an amazing one.
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Chuffed for Moony that this has taken off. The yanks seem well into it.
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They don't understand Font grades and are therefore not distressed by the fact that a Moonboard "6B+" is somehwere around two to four grades harder than the average indoor "V4"
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You can change the grades to V grades if you the kind of sivko that would want to do such a thing.
Re the grades there are some massive discrepancies in there as some people really can't grade for toffee however there is a facility to change the grade to what you thing it is when you log your ascent. I think if 5 or more people change the grade another shows up in brackets as a user grade. Most people seem to never upgrade but quite happy to downgrade so a bit like uk bouldering in general.
Long term it might actually help to standardise grades world wide, on the board at least.
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Given the only thing anyone really complains about on the Moonboard is the holds I don't know why Ben doesn't hook up with someone who makes good holds (Axis, Core, whoever) to do a set of really nice comfortable holds for the moonboard, with good texture, that are not all jugs to stand on, and bingo you've turned a good product into an amazing one.
Its a good idea in theory but in practice you make a lot of problems for yourself (It splits your database of problems in half, makes it more complicated for people looking to buy the board (which holds should I get?), makes the app more complicated and it confuses users.)
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Long term it might actually help to standardise grades world wide, on the board at least.
Could save everyone a lot of time and effort if they just put everything in at 6B+ (or where ever the inflation-downgrading equilibrium point is).
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Chuffed for Moony that this has taken off. The yanks seem well into it.
big in japan too
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Chuffed for Moony that this has taken off. The yanks seem well into it.
big in japan too
#moonboard
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Its a good idea in theory but in practice you make a lot of problems for yourself (It splits your database of problems in half,
It would add to the total database of possibilities.
makes it more complicated for people looking to buy the board (which holds should I get?),
You'd buy the good set of holds, obvs.
makes the app more complicated and it confuses users.)
Isn't it already catering for two arrangements of holds, made from the white moon set, the black set, and the yellow set? Can't see how adding a better set of, say, blue holds would do anything but add to the overall product.
Thinking about it, there is a set of plywood moon prototype hold at the school which I understood were supposed to eventually form a set of holds for the moonboard. The shapes were basically the same as the old original screw-on Moon "power grips" holds (i.e. very good) but scaled up a bit and used with bolts. Although there's still questions about plywood for holds (i.e. longevity) this set, if it they get made as a full production set, would totally eclipse the existing black and white Moon holds set. Those and a set of the older yellow Moon holds would be a really good setup.
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Given the only thing anyone really complains about on the Moonboard is the holds I don't know why Ben doesn't hook up with someone who makes good holds (Axis, Core, whoever) to do a set of really nice comfortable holds for the moonboard, with good texture, that are not all jugs to stand on, and bingo you've turned a good product into an amazing one.
Its a good idea in theory but in practice you make a lot of problems for yourself (It splits your database of problems in half, makes it more complicated for people looking to buy the board (which holds should I get?), makes the app more complicated and it confuses users.)
At first I agreed with you Remus but then I thought people(boardheads, moonheads, #moonfans?) would love the reset and Ben gets to cash in a second time. MRK II init
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Could save everyone a lot of time and effort if they just put everything in at 6B+ (or where ever the inflation-downgrading equilibrium point is).
[/quote]
Pretty sure that's what a lot do as some of the 6b+s are in the 7s. If everyone gave there honest opinion of grade and the app averaged it out it would work.
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More hold sets are already in the pipeline including wood.
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Chuffed for Moony that this has taken off. The yanks seem well into it.
big in japan too
Great tune
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl6u2NASUzU
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Or going back further
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_in_Japan_(band)
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Good thing I'm forever young.
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New set of round pink holds appeared on the Moonboard in the school. Some are a bit weird (i.e. circular balls with mono cutouts) but generally a big improvement over the black and white sets.
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Are they in the currently empty bolt holes, or instead of one of the other sets?
Thought there was some wood holds in developement?
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Well on the school board it looks like a mixture of white, black and yellows have been removed, and new pink ones put on in their place, leaving maybe 75% of the old while, black and yellows on. Kinda looks like some kind of work in progress at the minute as there is not an even spread of pinks.
I believe there are some wooden ones in the pipeline. At the school there are some moon wooden (ply) holds on the main wall which are very nice, very comfy, reservations about plywood notwithstanding. Again, these could be prototypes for all I know.
I reckon a moonbloard with a set of wooden hold, these new pinks, plus the old yellows would be a huge improvement on the current set.
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yeah, shame the app's exploded with the black and whites - hard to change now without pissing a lot of folk off. Any way they could remove some of the worst/least used of those sets to give enough space for the new ones? Still would be very difficult with the number of problems now.
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The other way of looking at it is there are enough boards around the world with the white/black/yellow setup for it to be above the critical mass where it has self sustaining momentum, so introduction of more hold sets are not going to kill those setups off. Everyone doesn't have to be on the same setup.
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https://www.facebook.com/frictionlabs/videos/vb.184722175056365/587437884784790/?type=2&theater
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There will be a whole new set up out this year. Going to be all tested to ensure there good then released as a set.
It won't piss anyone off as the app allows multiple setups so the new holds will just add to.
It will still be possible to add to the set used now.
Imagine the new set will eventually take over from the old but it will take time. Or maybe the walls will just have two boards.
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After initially being skeptical about the moonboard I've had a couple of sessions at the foundry board now and like it. I think it climbs well. I think i enjoy the ease of finding new problems to climb and the fact I get to log stuff. Grown to like (or at least not hate) the black and white holds.
New holds can't be a bad thing, especially if they are an improvement on the current sets. There might be a short period where there's not many problems in the app but that won't last long with the amount of moonheads out there now.
Got some ply holds on my board and they are nice. But with feet following hands on the moonboard not sure how long they'd last being stood on all the time.
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yeah, shame the app's exploded with the black and whites - hard to change now without pissing a lot of folk off. Any way they could remove some of the worst/least used of those sets to give enough space for the new ones? Still would be very difficult with the number of problems now.
Moonboard at TCA is the wrong angle anyway, so its not like you can really try the same problems anyway :geek: :P
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Is it? Or is that a lattice angle dig?
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41 degrees instead of 40 I was told. Just have to get stronger...
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41 degrees instead of 40 I was told. Just have to get stronger...
A couple of people have commented that its less steep than the one in the school, which I assume is the correct angle? I don't think TCA bothered to change the angle of the panel when they put it in.
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I know they didn't, Paul reckoned it'd be close enough. If the school's steeper then I think he's right!
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For the sake of argument, according to the instructions on the website I have calculated the angle is 40°45'5", so you could round the minute off and it is indeed 41°
We are however only talking a linear distance difference of 63mm at the top of the boards though between 40-41°. If you can detect that when climbing you should approach ITV to revamp 'you bet' and use this skill for charity...
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Could you not compensate for this by climbing with shoes with 1cm thick soles? ;)
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I think the angle of the school one was changed (Gav?) not that long ago to be slightly less steep. Not sure if this is now the offical angle or not now, if so maybe it was setup too steep originally.
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We are however only talking a linear distance difference of 63mm at the top of the boards though between 40-41°. If you can detect that when climbing you should approach ITV to revamp 'you bet' and use this skill for charity...
or emabark on a Milo of Croton style training regime?
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I was just picking holes because the MB is the only bit i use at TCA and I dont want it clogged up with psyched Dumas.
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:offtopic:
I think the angle of the school one was changed (Gav?) not that long ago to be slightly less steep. Not sure if this is now the offical angle or not now, if so maybe it was setup too steep originally.
The one at the school is adjustable and fastened back with chains. at some point it go moved and I re set it a few months back. It's 40 degrees now.
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Having climbed on one that was 43, then moving to a 40, there are some problems that are hugely different(i.e. 1-2 grades), and some that aren't.
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its amazing how the moonboard has been around for ages - but only seems to have taken off with the lights and app combo..
Mr Moon owes those guys who first wired one up with LED's a few drinks....
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Those are my friends here in AK :)
One of them is the business side of the LED kits, which he sells to Mr. Moon. He's doing just fine with it.
I actually hope they load some of the old setups and problems into the App. There were some good stout ones on the old setup.
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Those are my friends here in AK :)
One of them is the business side of the LED kits, which he sells to Mr. Moon. He's doing just fine with it.
I actually hope they load some of the old setups and problems into the App. There were some good stout ones on the old setup.
I thought it was :)
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Now you can buy your own for the price of a decent second-hand car.
http://www.moonclimbing.com/gear/moonboard/freestanding-moonboard.html
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Bargain, you'd only have to use it 974 times for it to work out cheaper than going to the Foundry.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
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That's a lot of fuckalls for a board that's only just over a foot high as well.
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:lol:
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Bargain, you'd only have to use it 974 times for it to work out cheaper than going to the Foundry.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
Every other day for 5 years... if there were a group it would be worth it...
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who the hell is the target market?
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does that include postage?
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does that include postage?
For that price I want Ben and Jerry to come round and assemble it, assisted by the ghost of Wolfgang Gullich.
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TBH I think that's a pretty decent price. I'd never consider spending ££ on something like that - but given what's involved in making and designing it then I think it's fair. I would imagine that at that price it would have some appeal to wall owners...
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Quite right - the R+D that goes into building something which demolishes your ego with brick hard 6Cs doesn't come cheap.
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Compare it to a home made board with some second hand mattresses its expensive.
Build your own fixed version to the same standard and buy the lights, holds proper matting etc would cost 3k minimum .
Make your own freestanding version of this including all the stuff, design, calculations etc from scratch would cost you more than 7.5k.
There is a massive difference in what you would have at home and what professional gyms and walls use. A treadmill like you see in Gyms around the world cost between 6k-20k. Fancy multi gym 5k-12k, exercise bike 5k-8k. etc etc.
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what Gav said
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Aye, despite my earlier facetious comment, at heart, I agree. I am always happy to pay a sizable premium for people to do work that I lack the skills for (which is pretty much everything, truth be told). I generally figure I would waste so much materials and time that its more economic (financially and in terms of opportunity cost) to spend my days earning and climbing as normal, pay the price, and end up something a bit more professional (the part exception I make is those trades I feel are full of conmen, in which case I am prepared to spend a bit of time youtubing plumbing videos!).
So, adding in the development and LED system to the construction and materials costs, a Moonboard doesn't seem massively unreasonable. Especially for a commercial wall where the presence of a Moonboard could increase custom - must be quite good for a climber to go to a wall and know, should they not like the "native problems", they'll be able to work projects on the Moonboard they've already worked at other Moonboard equipped venues.
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Had a play on a mates Moon with LEDs on Saturday for the first time, had a good session, got my ass kicked though.
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The range of difficulty at any grade is so outrageous it can be a trick to figure out for the first few times. Then you start to get it down better and it starts to make more sense...
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Any tips?
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I think it's just getting the style of climbing the board requires wired. Lots of intensive core to get feet on high holds and balance on them, and setting up for big moves between reasonable holds.
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There's definitely a knack. I had about my fifth session on one last night, and went from barely being able to string a couple of moves together, to being within one move of completing my first problem.
In my case a lot of it is contact strength - I can hang the holds ok statically, but latching them and staying in control is much harder. But I doubt if my contact strength increased three-fold between Sunday & Tuesday. (Better try to remember what I had for dinner on Monday though, just in case it did)
The other thing that changed, and probably actually made the rapid difference, was practicing the transition from extended core tension with the feet low on the kickboard, and staying in control while bringing a foot high onto the starting handhold. And deciding when to do it. The moon holds are big as footholds, but the strict feet-follow-hands rule does make for awkward foot positions.
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Sorry, can you repeat that.
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Had my first session on a moonboard the other day but has some issues with the app. My phone could find the board on Bluetooth but couldn't find the board via the app so I had to do it the old fassioned way! Any advice from the tech wizards?
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If another phone has been connected previously you need to restart the board.
My phone doesn't see it in BT but will connect. If it's the Foundry board mine only connects if I have the phone bottom left corner of the board and usually takes a couple of attempts.
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Any tips?
Start off sorting and filtering so that the highest number of repeats in a grade show up first. They're by and large either easy ticks or on the money and a good way to work through problems. Start recording those and they'll slowly disappear until you get into a good range. User grades can be helpful in identifying the big softies, but I've never seen a sandbagged problem get the user upgrade. So if you filter by most repeats, then sift through the user grades, you can find some good ones.
I didn't find the Benchmarks particularly useful as the difficulties seem all over the place to me. Nothing resembling "benchmark" about most of them.
In terms of learning the "style", I think it's just getting the style of climbing the board requires wired. Lots of intensive core to get feet on high holds and balance on them, and setting up for big moves between reasonable holds.
is generally spot on. High feet, tension while extended, and dynamic movement are all key.
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My tip would be make a mental note of the setters name. You can start to avoid their multiple sandbags and weird problems.
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Word up folks, been having a few moonboard sessions of late, anyone got any recommendations for good problems generally in the 7b+ to 8a range? Ideally not just ones which are huge jumps between massive holds.
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Problem 23. Soul moves south. blow. all 7C benchmarks and all good. I have not done any of them but am trying. Blow is superb.
Most of the benchmarks are good so its a good start to work your way through them. All pretty stern grades.
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Cheers Gav will check them out. Had totally missed the whole benchmark thing.
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Most of the benchmarks are good so its a good start to work your way through them. All pretty stern grades.
My understanding was that these are problems Ben has done and liked. Do you know if this is correct Gav?
I'd say very stern grades.
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The benchmarks are allocated by 4 or 5 people from all over the world who are either involved with the board/moonclimbing or early adopters of the board who ben asked to comment. Not sure exactly what the criteria is.
They are all generally proper grades in line with the older stuff. i.e. hard. Its also worth looking at the user grade and comments to see what people think. Quite interesting to see one mans 7C is another 7A and noticeable its rarely the other way round. Over 20000 people have downloaded the app now which is amazing. If everyone who did a problem put the grade they actually think it is down when they have completed it the user grade in brackets should be pretty accurate.
If you want an ego trip put your settings on the grade you want to do, list by most ascents and ignore the user grade. Low and behold you will be flashing 7Bs before you know it.
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If you want an ego trip put your settings on the grade you want to do, list by most ascents and ignore the user grade. Low and behold you will be flashing 7Bs before you know it.
I did this first few sessions cos I thought it'd end up showing the best quality problems. Did 4 7cs either flashed or a couple of goes, and flashed a 7c+. Even still on plenty of these the "user grade" was still same as the given grade. Take the ego boost and run I say.
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Yopu know your only kidding yourself.
And since when has quantity ever confirmed quality. Thats why Rubicon roof is the most popular route on peak limestone.
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The benchmarks are a joke. Some of them are quite good, some are not very good. Some are massive sandbags, some are seemingly soft. I think it would be better if there was an algorithm to calculate based on star rating and grade accuracy rather than 1(or 5) persons opinion, even if it is Ben.
This is not only my opinion, but consensus amongst everyone here locally.
FYI - i've done almost all of the benchmarks, but anyway who thinks problem 23 is even close to 7C has steel tendons and can't grade for shit...
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Word up folks, been having a few moonboard sessions of late, anyone got any recommendations for good problems generally in the 7b+ to 8a range? Ideally not just ones which are huge jumps between massive holds.
Nectar of the Todds
Gastonification
Leocremaflanders
Black Cats
Kawaschuwu
Sensei
piccole righe
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The benchmarks are a joke. Some of them are quite good, some are not very good. Some are massive sandbags, some are seemingly soft.
Had a look at some of the alleged benchmarks last night, and the above seems to ring true. Grades and quality all over the place. Also seem to be overrepresented in the "huge jumps between massive holds" style too.
Still, found a few decent ones to try. Soulmoves South 2016 - very odd 6inch first move? Have I missed something. Blow - seemed like pulling off the ground for the first move is twice as hard as any other move on it?
Nectar of the Todds
Gastonification
Leocremaflanders
Black Cats
Kawaschuwu
Sensei
piccole righe
Will check them out, cheers.
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The benchmarks are a joke. Some of them are quite good, some are not very good. Some are massive sandbags, some are seemingly soft. I think it would be better if there was an algorithm to calculate based on star rating and grade accuracy rather than 1(or 5) persons opinion, even if it is Ben.
This is not only my opinion, but consensus amongst everyone here locally.
FYI - i've done almost all of the benchmarks, but anyway who thinks problem 23 is even close to 7C has steel tendons and can't grade for shit...
This is exactly what the user grade does. Its calculated on a formula once more than a certain number of people have logged a user grade. This seems to make things worse as i am yet to see an upgrade but lots and lots of downgrades often taking problems from hugely over graded to hugely under graded. I believe the star system is supposed to work this way as well.
I have suggested that the main grade should change to the average logged user grade with the original grade dropping into brackets then this would allow the filters to work better.
Re problem 23 i think its desperate but the lad i climb with did it in a few tries and thought it was steady for 7C. Here lies the problem with grades.
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The way forward would be to programme the app to know the exact size and shape of each hold, the angle of the board, then given the height and ape index of the climber the app should actually be able to calculate the grade for any given climbable combination of holds via a statistical algorithm. P.S> this is now my idea so if Ben does actually do this I want a cut.
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Thats v3 out next year.
We wont have anything to moan or bitch about then other than politics. Life will grind to a halt.
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Soulmoves South 2016 - very odd 6inch first move?
Maybe in order to make the second hold "available" as a foothold for later on, given the strict Feet Follow Hands rule.
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The benchmarks are a joke. Some of them are quite good, some are not very good. Some are massive sandbags, some are seemingly soft. I think it would be better if there was an algorithm to calculate based on star rating and grade accuracy rather than 1(or 5) persons opinion, even if it is Ben.
This is not only my opinion, but consensus amongst everyone here locally.
FYI - i've done almost all of the benchmarks, but anyway who thinks problem 23 is even close to 7C has steel tendons and can't grade for shit...
This is exactly what the user grade does. Its calculated on a formula once more than a certain number of people have logged a user grade. This seems to make things worse as i am yet to see an upgrade but lots and lots of downgrades often taking problems from hugely over graded to hugely under graded. I believe the star system is supposed to work this way as well.
I have suggested that the main grade should change to the average logged user grade with the original grade dropping into brackets then this would allow the filters to work better.
Re problem 23 i think its desperate but the lad i climb with did it in a few tries and thought it was steady for 7C. Here lies the problem with grades.
You're right that the user grades only work one direction, down. I also haven't seen an upgrade yet, even though I've personally upgraded many problems. I just meant that instead of the user grade which is an "average", use an algorithm that assesses "benchmark" status by highest level of user to actual agreement. That plus some star method should end up working out.
There is a second issue that has come up as well, and that is hold/wall differential. My friend Chad visited the school room and played on the board there. He thought the yellow(original) set there had far more friction than the sets we have which are slick as snot. That could make a big difference. And on the yellow holds, hand size seems to make a big difference as many of them are 3 fingers only for me, but another strong friend can squeeze four on many of them.
regardless, I htink overall it's a pretty cool setup.
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The benchmarks are a joke. Some of them are quite good, some are not very good. Some are massive sandbags, some are seemingly soft.
Had a look at some of the alleged benchmarks last night, and the above seems to ring true. Grades and quality all over the place. Also seem to be overrepresented in the "huge jumps between massive holds" style too.
Still, found a few decent ones to try. Soulmoves South 2016 - very odd 6inch first move? Have I missed something. Blow - seemed like pulling off the ground for the first move is twice as hard as any other move on it?
Nectar of the Todds
Gastonification
Leocremaflanders
Black Cats
Kawaschuwu
Sensei
piccole righe
Will check them out, cheers.
I've done all but the kawaschuwu one, but i've done all the moves on that one. I just can't keep it together for the second to last move.
Soulmoves South was a funny one. Seemed easy to me, but I still can't finish blow. The last move gets me every time.
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Sensei is very good, thought it was fairish at 7C
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So off the back of a Moonboard's appearance in Leeds - now in a position to comment on this.
On the board / problems, agree on the holds - they're pretty rough, can see how they'd rag your skin. In my case this isn't a problem as I'm not fit enough to manage a sustained period of time on the thing.
Agree with comments on the problems, even at the lower end there seems to be a lot of throw-y, high-foot-and-low-percentage-pop type problems on there. Personally I seem to find the move off the kickboard on loads of the problems ridiculously stretched, to the point where I'm having to jump the move and stick my feet back on.
On the topic of setting / grading...not convinced on the crowd sourced nature of the problem base. It's all very well saying there's 10k or whatever problems, but if there is a lot of sandbag dross out there to wheedle out it's a bit of a false economy for the Moonboard user. Would I prefer a smaller number of (probably) better set and consistently graded problems by people who know what they're doing? Yes I would. Potentially a paid-for upgrade I guess (copyright tommytwotone industries).
Also, the app's been updated - a few observations. Can't recall, but aren't there some UKB-ers involved in the development of this?):
Firstly - there's apparently a 25 degree option. That seems unusual for something where the idea is total standardisation across the world. I didn't see it on my last visit - is the commercially available Moonboard adjustable? Or is this a clever ruse to get wall owners etc to erect a second, less steep version?!
Secondly - I (personally - perhaps as it's my field of professional expertise) am still finding the user experience (via Android at least) a bit ropey.
In particular:
a) Filtering / sorting of problems - surely the sort should be on your filtered list, not part of the search?
b) On Android, if you look at a problem off your filtered down list and don't like the look of it, if you hit the back button it takes you back to the homepage, not back to your filtered down list!
c) Some kind of "problems starting with / including this hold" would be good - I was trying a problem put on by someone else yesterday that was apparently 6c, got close but don't know the name of it and not I'm damned if I can find it in amongst the numerous 6cs!
Also, bit of a random one but am I right that only one phone can be hooked up to the board at a time? I got there yesterday when there was another team in situ, they were fine me joining in but I felt a bit weird about using some total stranger's phone to browse problems and control the board lights.
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Problem 4:
My phone is too shit to run the app so I am at the mercy of whoever else is there.
A book of problems would be good too but maybe that defeats the point?
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What it needs is a holographic projection of Ben Moon telling you what's in and dishing out abuse to help you climb better.
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ttt/dunnyg, no use to you but TCA has a tablet dedicated for the moonboard so you don't need a phone, tho you can use your phone if you want.
I believe the new pink and wood holds are about to/have been released - anyone had a go with these?
didn't know about the 25 degree option - surely all the holds are way too good for this angle?
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I believe the new pink and wood holds are about to/have been released - anyone had a go with these?
didn't know about the 25 degree option - surely all the holds are way too good for this angle?
I've had a play on the new holds on the school board. Definitely a fan of the wooden holds, nice open shapes with a little more friction than normal wood holds (because they're in plywood). Ambivalent on the new pink holds.
The board in the schoolroom is adjustable, so Id guess they were thinking about adjustable boards when it was designed? If they were feeling clever I guess you could come up with a formula that says "add 10 degrees, add a grade" or something, though i guess it'd always be a bit of a stab in the dark as hold type is gonna make a big difference.
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/I am a bit late to the party here but had my first Moonboard session today (inadvertant - the Depot was shut due to a power outage). The single-session verdict: ambivalent.
The positives are that for a solo boulderer, having a massive library of problems to try is great fun. I did a lot of good, steep climbing, without having to waste much mental energy or time. The quality of the problems was pretty mixed, but not having to think for myself made for a very "efficient" session. That said, I had the board to myself.
The negatives: the holds were pretty grim (Original, A, and B: white, black and yellow); all resin, mainly nasty. As the problems are feet-follows-hands, the holds were both unpleasantly rough and slickly rubbery. And, the crux of many problems was getting a foot from the kickboard onto a starting handhold, which felt a bit limited. I far prefer boards with dedicated crap screw-ins for feet: the hand-holds stay clean and there are equivalent terrible options for all heights, and the problems do not feel so morpho.
To my mind, as a piece of "hardware", the Moonboard is pretty poor: any equivalently wide bit of the Leeds Depot 30 is far better: nicer holds and lots of awful, slopey screw-ins for feet. Frankly, in the absence of a problem library, I would prefer my own tiny, 5' wide woodie to a Moonboard, despite being designed by an idiot (me, albeit, very well constructed by Probes), I would gravitate to the near entirely wood holds set (mainly Crusher and LX / Hard-Wood-Holds) with lots of crappy feet.
But, the app compensates for so much of the structural failings of the Moonboard. I will retain the app and I have made a bookmarked list of problems from this forum for future visits. I am keen for similarly deserted spells on the board in the future (I have Reynaulds, so "peak conditions" days, when everyone with normal circulation is out on the grit!). However, if on future visits, the Moonboard was crowded and I could not get on the app, I am not sure I would be prepared to wait. For me, access to the app would likely be necessary to compensate for the basic failings of the board.
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I agree Moose, I used to climb on a board in my old local wall which has recently closed down. It had lots of wooden and smoother holds and screw-ons as extra options, it was great, I really preferred that. I quite like some of the yellow holds on the Moonboard though.
I think Moon has addressed some of the issues with the Masters set-up as the wooden holds look nice, not sure what the red ones are like and I'm pretty sure there are now screw-ons for feet. Have many here used this set-up yet? I don't see my local wall updating to this set up any time soon though.
It is slightly frustrating that some of the cruxes are high feet off the kicker but the more I've used it the more I've got into it, thankfully the board addresses a lot of my weaknesses of big moves on big holds, pinches in general and getting and moving off high feet.
As an aside I've noticed the yellow footholds on the kicker have always been positive edge side up at my local wall and only just last week they've switched them to the slopey side? Which is correct? Can't find any info on the Moon site only that the new Masters set up should be slopey side up.
Cheers
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The rule was definitely always slopy side up - I checked a while ago because one of my two local moonboards had them the wrong way. Didn't notice that it made much difference.
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Cheers, had another session on the Moonboard last night and the kicker footholds being slopey didn't seem to make much difference as you say.
Had my best session yet and managed a 7A (YYFY) but it was probably massively soft, came close (last move) on another 2 as well.
I've never tried any of the set problems using the yellows until yesterday and they seem to suit me way more being fingery but positive. Generally not massive moves on the problems I tried that use them too.
Does anyone here have any recommendations of good problems around the 7A mark that aren't complete sandbags/soft? I found myself flicking through the app for ages yesterday trying to find problems to commit to that looked good.
Cheers
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Have you tried Ben Moon's Hard Times? One of the more popular ones. I haven't done it but had a session where I did the moves and thought it would go quite easily before being completely shut down on the link. Others have since told me that it's supposed to be quite hard.
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Have you tried Ben Moon's Hard Times? One of the more popular ones. I haven't done it but had a session where I did the moves and thought it would go quite easily before being completely shut down on the link. Others have since told me that it's supposed to be quite hard.
I haven't tried it, I'll take a look, but from your description it sounds like it's in the sandbag category?
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Have you looked at the benchmark problems? Still a bit of a spread but generally decent problems. If you look for things with a lot of ascents they tend to be at the easier end of the scale.
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Have you looked at the benchmark problems? Still a bit of a spread but generally decent problems. If you look for things with a lot of ascents they tend to be at the easier end of the scale.
I've checked out the benchmarks in the lower grades 6B+ - 6C+ and still thought the grades/quality were all over the shop.
I was after problems that people had done that they thought were good/about the right grade. A bit like an easier version of what someone had posted earlier in this thread about a list of good 7C's.
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Ah they have reset the TCA Bristol one.
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A few I’ve done recently in the grade ballpark:
Gesier Right-Hand
Magnum
Her Comes the King
Leap Creep
Hard Times is a good rec.
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Are you guys on your way to discover that indoor boulder problems with tracking can be quite morpho? ;)
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Cheers cofe.
Are you guys on your way to discover that indoor boulder problems with tracking can be quite morpho? ;)
I realised this on my first session!
The comments section on the app is a circus. Just seems to be full euros/beasts saying every single problem is soft/a warm up or my personal favourite on something around 7A "Flash, warm up, soft, 6A".
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The comments section on the app is a circus. Just seems to be full euros/beasts saying every single problem is soft/a warm up or my personal favourite on something around 7A "Flash, warm up, soft, 6A".
My favourites are the ones along the lines of "soft, missed out D8", indicating that they did a footless one-armer off a micro-gaston.
As I wrote above - I feel it's a great concept, poorly executed - though the reported introduction of new, nicer holds and dedicated shitty smears might address that (if at the cost of negating the existing database?).
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I think tracking is way better than jibs, not just on moon board but all boards.
I think when you have loads of jibs you end up climbing every problem the same where as with tracking your forced to do things differently.
Moonboard set up before the new one did tend to have big step ups from the footboard but only because most of the problems start on one of the low jugs
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My board has both tracking problems and two different coloured sizes of small screw ons. More choice and variety to have both. Tracking problems let you use smaller hand holds with often bigger/more positive feet and foot jibs train tension. Best of both worlds.
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Have you looked at the benchmark problems? Still a bit of a spread but generally decent problems. If you look for things with a lot of ascents they tend to be at the easier end of the scale.
I've checked out the benchmarks in the lower grades 6B+ - 6C+ and still thought the grades/quality were all over the shop.
I was after problems that people had done that they thought were good/about the right grade. A bit like an easier version of what someone had posted earlier in this thread about a list of good 7C's.
Just looking through my moonboard logbook (I'm that sad). Here's some 7As I've done that I noted as good and not either nails or 6C:
Gunshow
Rotto
ACG24
Attrezzo Di Tortura (I noted this as bottom end 7A or 6C+)
First Set: Pinch 'n' Inch (same comment as above)
CBS Trainer (same comment as above)
Punch Drunk - this is ace but I commented that I thought it felt 7B. Still one worth getting on as it's knacky not too burly.
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Had a couple of sessions on the moonboard now, further to the problems mentioned by Pete I'd recommend:
Pogo 7A
Magnum 7A
Hard Pull on Var 7A+
Borneo 7B
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Anyone got the 10 original kickboard holds they want rid of?
Apparently you have to read the small print very carefully when you order from Moon... :slap:
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One of my best friends is going to mount a Moonboard in his new house. I'd better pull my finger out...
It's been ages since my last session. I used to do quite well on the yellow set, on average. Was poor on the white one, it was full of pinches.
Anyway, good times.
I'll probably start back from the low 6's...
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bump...
It turns out that our club wall has a 25° surface thats just right for a Moonboard (there's a 40° surface next to it, but it's 60cm too short, and we don't really have the population for a 40° moonboard)
Anyone used the 25° setup much? Is it worth it?
Probably start with limited hold sets - maybe C and Original, maybe adding the wood set if it's popular. Might be an expensive experiment if not!
(and no, I'm not back climbing - asking for a friend etc etc ;D )
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I've climbed on the 25 at the schoolroom a fair few times. I think I actually prefer it to the 40 - it's more specific to most UK route crux sequences. And the wood holds must be desperate at 40 degrees (for me at least), but are the best ones at 25 for me. Having said that I really dislike those bright pink holds - lots of big semi-sphere blobs which feel awkward to use and potentially tweaky to my fingers. Are there many problems available which only use a couple of hold sets?
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There are quite a few that use only the older hold sets as that's what many people have.