UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Sidehaas on August 31, 2016, 10:05:24 pm
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When doing a move on steep-ish ground (let's say 20-40 degrees overhanging) I often find my trailing leg swings out far too much, especially if I am taking it out of a secure heel or toe hook. In some cases in similar positions but with less secure (eg) heel hooks, I've wanted to keep the leg completely still while moving my hand, but been unable to stop it swinging out.
For people who know these moves, recent definite examples include the right heel on suavito ( I can't keep it on for the last move), the left heel on La Baleine in Font (ditto for the move to the rail), my right leg swinging out when popping my left foot up the arete on Flatworld, or taking the right heel out of the flake when starting to move left at the top break on Free Monster.
Often it doesn't make me immediately fall off, but takes more energy holding the swing. I've especially realised this when watching videos of myself. Sometimes it seems so pronounced that it's as if I'm purposefully kicking my leg backwards! I'm definitely 'worse' than others on the same moves. :unsure:
Hope this all makes sense. My question is, does anyone know what cort of core strength or muscles I need to develop to control this? I think my core is mostly pretty good, and in these situations I don't generally feel a lack of strength; it's more that I just don't feel like I have a way of controlling the movement. I'm wondering if there is some aspect of my core that just isn't activating at all for some reason, that I could work on.
For reference I already do loads of leg raises, planks and some front lever progressions.
Thanks!
Si
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Possibly work on your obliques? Side planks and trx stuff is really good for it, have a search.
If you're falling when cutting loose get your upper back and shoulders stronger if your abs are already strong
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Ok thanks.
Its preventing the cut loose with the trailing foot, rather than holding it, that's the problem.
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sounds like you might benefit from climbing with deliberately excessive style
climb steep problems that you can get up OK normally, but concentrate on keeping both feet on and move them much slower than normal - maybe do the same problem several times in this style
the footwork version of blowing chalk off your fingers mid move
keeping feet on is a complicated process which requires coordinating muscles through the whole body
climbing is a sport in which you have to use your fingertips and feet... the whole chain of muscles, from toes to fingertips
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I find it hard to believe that your heel is popping on Suavito because you aren't strong enough. More likely technique or not fully committing to the move (it is scary!).
Rather than trying to find another thing to train, have you considered that your technique is poor on these sort of moves ?
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Dude, it's not cool to criticize another person's technique - that's like casual sexism
it's not his fault he's a spaz
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I find it hard to believe that your heel is popping on Suavito because you aren't strong enough. More likely technique or not fully committing to the move (it is scary!).
Or maybe his balls are too big and weighing his hips down or getting in the way of leg movement.
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i was going to ask "how is your hip flexibility?" as it is quite important for heel hooks at your limit, when you need to stay close to the rock (while moving your other leg/ not moving your hips)
but now i'm afraid it's stretch-ist
so maybe just continue with the front levers progression like a ... person with lots of testosterone, until you can do a one arm lever, then controlling the swing should't be a problem
;)
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It sounds to me more like a technique thing. On, say, traverses, I found that I was too often leaving a good heel in and climbing too far away from it which led to an inevitable crux heel release at some point. Far better to keep the heel closer to you via smaller intermediate heel movements, even if it means being on more marginal holds.
As for Suavito, I couldn't really figure out where I was supposed to be putting my heel around the arête so just opted for a toe scum. It didn't really work and meant I kept swinging off and spotter dabbing. I'm the green t-shirted person in this video:
http://vimeo.com/149577080
I think it was James Jacobs who told me to next time place the heel high and it "just sort of sticks". You can see in his video that he's got it quite high (big bend in the knee), and also note that he's doing the patented 36Chambers "ballerina heel" with pointed toe:
http://vimeo.com/20280149
Basically, heels are not something that we use all the time, so you're likely not as good at the finer points of heel technique (I know I'm not!). It's probably a technique thing more than a muscle strength thing.
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Thanks all, I'm pretty sure it is a technique thing to some extent, but not so much how to place a heel (bear in mind not all the examples are about keeping one on) but more about keeping tension through it when it is placed and as it is taken out, so that my leg doesn't swing out wildly. I don't feel as if I know or can feel what muscle I have to engage to do this, and need to learn.
I suspect the best suggestion may be Lagers', but unfortunately I don't get to the wall that often hence hoping someone might have an idea of specific muscles, then I could practice using them at home in some way.
(A bit like trying to reactivate umused muscles around the shoulder if you've got an imbalance.)
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my apologises, but I'm struggling to picture what you're describing.
Am I correct in thinking that if you're on an overhanging arete and you have a right heel and a left foot smear (or whatever) that when you release the heel your right leg swings out whilst you try and keep you left in place?
Or alternatively, there is no left foot and it's just you right heel keeping you in until you release it?
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Both those things basically, yes (and it can equally be a left leg.)
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Climb faster. ;)
Sharks been ignoring my advice for years and he's still not done the Oak - ergo I am right.
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Sounds like posterior chain rather than core tbh
it's not his fault he's a spaz
Really? :no:
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Dunno about the causal defect, but might the solution be climbing more on steep boards? Not climbed indoors for months, but last winter I found that the training boards at the Depot (Leeds) really punished any delay in quickly and precisely placing my feet. There's a 50 deg Beastermaker one and a less steep board with terrible sloping smears for feet. After a concerted spell of climbing on either, my stomach muscles would ache like hell from the effort of damping extraneous leg swinging and keeping my feet on.
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Sharks been ignoring my advice for years and he's still not done the Oak - ergo I am right.
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc, Tomtomius
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+1 what moose said.
Weather it's a lack of body tension or technique on steep ground, climbing on a steep board with small and bad feet will improve both IMHO.
You quickly learn to push hard on your feet to avoid cutting loose.
Also, if possible, placing the foot high helps taking them in place: if you are too stretched when you reach the hold your foot loses some pressure and cutting lose becomes inevitable unless you have a steel core.
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Sharks been ignoring my advice for years and he's still not done the Oak - ergo I am right.
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc, Tomtomius
Pistris, volentes te sucess in quercu.
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romanes eunt domus
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On the loosely related theme of core development...
I Had a go at doing some sets on an ab roller (kneeling) at the gym and developed a lower right abdominal pain after 3 sets of 6 between my pube line and belly button. It's still a constant pain 24 hours later and any movement causes an increase in discomfort. There is no sign of swelling or reddening at the area, so is it likely a muscle tear that needs rest?
I did about 5 sets last week which caused fatigue/soreness of the middle-upper abs for a couple of days but nothing like this!
Apologies for the hijack. I was aiming at alternative methods of overall core improvement to twin with the weight lifting.
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I hope so.
Damn right, you should rest it. If it is a hernia, it may appear to improve (but never quite go), so rest it well. See a quack/physio if it's still really sore tomorrow; better to be called a hypochondriac than tear a nice big hole in your abdominal wall that might take a couple of years to correct (if ever).
All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. Looking at you, here, Dense.
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Also, I recommend to my clients using TRX or rings (push aways) rather than ab rollers. It allows progression, by starting with the rings higher off the ground, whilst permitting the full range of motion. You can also progress to push-away-flies (extending to a full plank on toes and outstretched arms and then bringing the arms 90deg to the crucifix position).
All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. Looking at you, here, Dense.