UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => shootin' the shit => Topic started by: Bubba on October 27, 2008, 02:57:35 pm
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Given the mental costs of gas and the prospect of winter, i've gone and bought myself an electric chainsaw for chopping up bits of wood for the fire. I figured it would pay for itself pretty quickly given the cost of a bag of logs.
Anyway, does anyone know if it's illegal to front up at some forestry wood and collect fallen wood? I'm not talking about taking it from their official looking woodpiles but surely nobody will mind if you just collect debris and waste wood?
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It's theft. But there are loads of non-commercial woods needing a bit of a tidy, I'm sure you can find a free/cheap source if you asked around. Un-managed woodland is a real issue in England, so if you can find a legit way of getting it give yourself an eco-pat on the back.
I do know folk who pinch wood and never get caught, but it depends on your luck and how you go about it!
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What you need is to drive a really big truck in remote areas at night.....
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Police officer "So why exactly have you got a big fuck off chainsaw in the back of you cab sir?"
Bubba "Well I've got a real fire at home and I thought it might make economic sense to.....why are you twisting my arm?.....Ow!?"
Police officer "Mind your head sir. You do not have to say anything etc etc..."
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I know the stuff you mean and I'm afraid taking it is classed as theft...
I made some enquiries to the FC when I lived in Aberystwyth, and whats on the ground even if it looks like rubbish is theirs. Which is a shame as theres loads of off cuts, and mishaped logs there that could be used - but are left to rot. But if you want any hypothetical advice/tips on when/how to do it (which is strictly illegal and I wouldnt know what to do etc..) then PM me.
You can (I believe though never followed it up) get permission to clear up the ground in areas like that - but that was a few years ago, and what with health and safety and all that...
Some free firewood tips I found (never paid for any in 3 years before I moved - excecpt when desparate!)
1. Driftwood. Wait until there is a big storm then head to the beach with a chainsaw and fill your boot(s)!
2. From the tip (now called recyvling thing) just ask if you can help yourself to the scrap wood pile. Normally say yes
3. The best one is find a friendly local farmer... with a wee bit of wood land. They're normally really happy for someone to come along and clean it up (clear up all the crap under the trees) which is normally easily a winters worth of wood. A bottle of scotch to say thanks normally eases the wheels too... one was really helpful and loaded up a huge tractor trailers worth of 3 year seasoned oak from a tree I cut up for him that had fallen inone of his fields..
4. As local landcape gardeners.. I bought my present house from one, and he has loads of problems getting rid of wood.
Final point - its the wrong time of year really - get it cut in spring, leave it to season all summer.
Great feeling heating your house with wood that cost nothing, and wood you harvested :beer1:
Tom
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Final point - its the wrong time of year really - get it cut in spring, leave it to season all summer.
Aye. Unseasoned wood burns inefficiently offsetting the effort involved - and it fucks your chimney, especially if it's old and unlined.
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Also, isn't over half of Sheffield designated smoke-free http://uksmokecontrolareas.co.uk/locations.php?la_id=229 (http://uksmokecontrolareas.co.uk/locations.php?la_id=229), so you could also get nicked for burning the wood, even if you obtained it legally?
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Good advice on seasoning - but I guess I can start now for next year - i've got a reasonable amount of storage space. Won't there still be a lot of lying wood that has been drying all year?
I've read elsewhere that many farmers are more than happy for you to clear wood from their land as it saves them the effort.
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Shame you're not in Wales, I know a guy in forestry who gives it away...
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Oh, even if it's free, don't take softwood. Well seasoned (that's minimum one season of seasoning) hardwood is where wood to burn is at.
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Also, isn't over half of Sheffield designated smoke-free http://uksmokecontrolareas.co.uk/locations.php?la_id=229 (http://uksmokecontrolareas.co.uk/locations.php?la_id=229), so you could also get nicked for burning the wood, even if you obtained it legally?
I've always wondered about this but assumed that everyone flouts the law on a grand scale. Most garages around here sell coal and logs, there's fuel merchants and chimney sweeps galore. I know a lot of people who have open fires who've never had any comeback.
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I can see the need to stop people burning dirty house coal - when a few people on one street do it the place does smell a bit, but I do think we should be allowed to burn reclaimed wood for a few nights a week.
Those Homefire Ovals (with the two lines scored in them) are an ace smokeless coal - loads better than the cheaper stuff.
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Also, isn't over half of Sheffield designated smoke-free http://uksmokecontrolareas.co.uk/locations.php?la_id=229 (http://uksmokecontrolareas.co.uk/locations.php?la_id=229), so you could also get nicked for burning the wood, even if you obtained it legally?
I've always wondered about this but assumed that everyone flouts the law on a grand scale. Most garages around here sell coal and logs, there's fuel merchants and chimney sweeps galore. I know a lot of people who have open fires who've never had any comeback.
Really well seasoned hardwood (1 year plus) will make virtually no smoke when burnt in a wood burning stove. Good wood burners are designed to operate at a really high temperature, so all the various gasses and bits get burnt completely. That increases the efficiency of the stove and = no smoke.
Poorly seasoned wood, and coal - paper etc.. makes loads of smoke. It used to amaze me running the stove full tilt (the chimney pipe glowing a satisfying dull red colour!) that there would be next to no smoke coming out of the chimney. In the states and parts of Canada, wood burners are only allowed if they meet certain emission specs - and NO coal to be burnt...
Tom (possible wood burning geek) :guilty:
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To start with throw your electric powered chainsaw on the fire and burn that first. Then get a decent small petrol powered chainsaw (my little stihl is great) and plenty of files to keep the chain sharp.
I live in a smokeless area but burn normal, decent coal (not the smokeless crap) and logs and get the chimney swept once a year.
Worth ringing round tree surgeons and landscape gardeners, often they have to pay to dump wood at the tip and will gladly drop it off at your house (if your local).
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Things are changing, the Magna Carta is being done away with by the Forestry Commission (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3264458/Forestry-Commission-scraps-Magna-Carta-right-to-collect-woods-from-forests.html).
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Things are changing, the Magna Carta is being done away with by the Forestry Commission (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3264458/Forestry-Commission-scraps-Magna-Carta-right-to-collect-woods-from-forests.html).
Bastards. Fecking health and safety bollocks.
Fuck, was I sounding like a daily mail reader then... :spank: :spank: :spank:
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I was hearing about all this on radio 2 today. apparantly the FC dont like people taking wood because they dont liek the idea of the public fooling about with chainsaws, or that seems to be the most PR friendly excuse they could think of for radio purposes. There does seem to be a system of licensing for collecting fallen wood on "common land" which i suppose relates to the magna carta passage that someone mentioned but how and why licenses are granted or revoked is beyond me. All i know is i get rid of alot of waste timber from site by giving it to a mates dad who burns the stuff all winter. He isnt so fussy about it being hardwood though, and my gaffer is quite happy to save filling a skip with doors etc.
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To start with throw your electric powered chainsaw on the fire and burn that first. Then get a decent small petrol powered chainsaw (my little stihl is great) and plenty of files to keep the chain sharp
Aye, i'll see how it goes first - just wanted something cheap to start with and got an ebay bargain. Will go petrol if it's successful
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Things are changing, the Magna Carta is being done away with by the Forestry Commission (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3264458/Forestry-Commission-scraps-Magna-Carta-right-to-collect-woods-from-forests.html).
Fuck me, I'm sure the UK is now run by the HSE :thumbsdown:
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What you need is to drive a really big truck in remote areas at night.....
Police officer "So why exactly have you got a big fuck off chainsaw in the back of you cab sir?"
Bubba "Well I've got a real fire at home and I thought it might make economic sense to.....why are you twisting my arm?.....Ow!?"
Police officer "Mind your head sir. You do not have to say anything etc etc..."
:lol:
A chainsaw would be nice in the cab - it'd match my special Peter Sutcliffe Special Edition set of titanium hammers :)
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Righto, after an epic 3 days of diy, lugging a fucking wood burner into my house on my own(80kg! most weight training i have done for years) the things was sparked up for the first time last night. Been looking into the log thing around sheffield and it seems to me that as long as you dont take the piss(ie turm up with a low loader and strip an area clean) its tolerated. As for the clean air act, sheffield council are promoting wood burners as a greener alternative to standard heating methods and are using a wood chip burner in one of there housing developments.
You can get seasoned wood commercially as well, but greener wood is cheaper, but still comes in round £50 a bag.
If all the peeps in sheff who want wood(fnarr!) chip in we could buy a decent chain saw and pool labour to stock up for at least next winter!
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where can you buy seasoned wood?
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We were looking into wood burners this weekend and found out that burning green wood vastly increases the chances of chimney fires due to resin/ tar/ creosote build up in the chimney. You probably already know that, but it was news to us. We are going to use our outside toilet as a wood store.
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We are going to use our outside toilet as a wood store.
And with the toilet full of wood are you going to shit out the window? :)
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where can you buy seasoned wood?
nice bit of salt and pepper, few herbs........
Yeah knew about the green wood thing although my in-laws did it for 20+ years with no problems at all, my friend down the road burns anything he can get his hands on. Have to say the ease of starting a fire with proper dry wood is brilliant, takes 2 mins with hardly any kindling.
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We are going to use our outside toilet as a wood store.
So it'll still be full of logs
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Chimney fires are only a problem if you don't clean your chimney, either get someone round once a year (£25 ish) or buy some brushes and do it yourself.
Burning a tree is the most enviromental way of disposing of it and it heats your house. Win win
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Burning a tree is not the most environmental way of disposing of it Jim. It would be far better to let it rot where it falls. I know a man with seven axes needs to justify using them, but the only way burning wood is better than fossil fuels is that no 'extra' carbon is put into the system.
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We are going to use our outside toilet as a wood store.
And with the toilet full of wood are you going to shit out the window? :)
We're going to use the toilet as the woodstore, the kitchen as the toilet, the bedroom as the kitchen, the living room as the bedroom and the toilet as the living room.....oh shit!
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... the only way burning wood is better than fossil fuels is that no 'extra' carbon is put into the system.
Wood is sustainable. Fossil fuels are not (within our human timeframe).
Wood can be farmed w/ out the impact of opencast or deep mining (I mean this in a physical way and its damage to the environment, not in a carbon-quotient way).
But you know this ???
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bubs & the Ti hammners...
Wrong.
Very wrong.
:lol:
I agree with the wood burning concept, got a mate who is a CDT teacher, I get the off cuts, turn the heating off and use the fire.... kids sleep in socks with blankets on the duvets..
Means I get cash for Ti brakes, never mind hammers :P
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kids sleep in socks with blankets on the duvets..
You either have very big feet or very small children :-\
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cold children...
who appreciate a warm front room ;)
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Burning a tree is not the most environmental way of disposing of it Jim. It would be far better to let it rot where it falls.
Why?
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Because then (most of) the carbon is returned to the ground directly instead of passing into the atmosphere. Whilst it decomposes it forms food and home for a myriad of creatures. Even if we weren't burning fossil fuels, cutting trees down and burning the wood would still be upsetting the carbon dioxide content of the air. As Houdini points out, this can be done sustainably but keen environmentalists like yourself calling something less bad 'environmentally friendly' is only true relative to the usual alternative and often not actually good at all. Just less bad.
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Is this your own theory?
after doing very limited and quick research it seems that both methods release the same amount of carbon into the atmosphere, one as methane, the other as CO2
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No Jim its FACT. Burning turns pretty much all the carbon into CO2, rotting returns much of it direct to the soil.
i'm not suggesting you don't do it, it is better than coalk, just don't be smug thinking you're doing the trees a favour.
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Trees left to rot in their natural environments provide valuable habitats for hedgehogs, insects and fungi and so on. And as animals are a well known producer of CO2, perhaps it's in the climate's best interests, long term, if their habitats are used to warm Jim's house instead.
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I've just got this image of Jim sat smug and warm in front of the log burner, whilst the dedicated media pc plays HD climbing vids, all seven axes stood in size order along the hearth, with a smug grin and wondering when the thankyou letter from Sting will arrive.
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Trees left to rot in their natural environments provide valuable habitats for hedgehogs, insects and fungi and so on. And as animals are a well known producer of CO2, perhaps it's in the climate's best interests, long term, if their habitats are used to warm Jim's house instead.
Maybe you should just catch hedgehogs and use them as fuel? You can still chop them up with the axe collection.
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This might be of help
http://www.lowcarbonbuildings.org.uk/how/householders/ (http://www.lowcarbonbuildings.org.uk/how/householders/)
We are just having our fireplace done to try and save some cash. I'd be psyched for a UKB Sheffield tree felling association
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No Jim its FACT. Burning turns pretty much all the carbon into CO2, rotting returns much of it direct to the soil.
i'm not suggesting you don't do it, it is better than coalk, just don't be smug thinking you're doing the trees a favour.
Dont forget that when you chop down a tree, a large amount of the carbon that the tree has taken up from the atmosphere (through growing) remains underground in the roots and stump... AFAIK growing trees for firewood is carbon negative, as some remains underground...
Much much better than burning up fossil fuels...
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Of course. But to say
Burning a tree is the most enviromental way of disposing of it
is plain wrong.
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I think your missing the point. I'm not out to become smug or to ease my conscience, I burn mainly coal anyway. I genuinly want to know the facts that are backed up with science.
Like I say, In my very quick and limited research, I can only find information that confirms my theory, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places or googling the wrong words.
Were did you learn these FACT's or is it your own theory?
Also I think that letting a tree rot where it falls can't be classed as dispossing of it
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http://www.seacoastnrg.org/2007/01/30/is-burning-wood-really-carbon-neutral/ (http://www.seacoastnrg.org/2007/01/30/is-burning-wood-really-carbon-neutral/)
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Aw fuck it.
W/ out heat I'll snuff it this winter... And driving to the crag is hardly C neutral ...
Letting a tree rot where it falls can be classed as letting nature take it's course.
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Got the chainsaw I bought from ebay running properly now and have found a large dead tree in some woods that I can slowly bring home :)
The log pile is about 7ft x 3ft x 3ft now so it's getting there.
I made a saw-horse out of old 2x4 and bought a splitting maul too.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3316073357_c187a1ce67_o.jpg)
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nice, really need to build myself a saw horse
this one looks rather good
http://www.ovwg.org/New-OVWG-Site/Techniques/Saw%20horse.pdf (http://www.ovwg.org/New-OVWG-Site/Techniques/Saw%20horse.pdf)
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never mind that, this looks the bolloxs
check the video
drool
http://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalog/Saw_Horses.html#aMPMD4460 (http://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalog/Saw_Horses.html#aMPMD4460)
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That looks excellent - not cheap but would probably be worth it in the end. My self-built one is too bulky really but it'll do for now.
Not sure how good that one in the pdf would be. It would work well with large logs but would be crap for smaller stuff.
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Got the chainsaw I bought from ebay running properly now and have found a large dead tree in some woods that I can slowly bring home :)
The log pile is about 7ft x 3ft x 3ft now so it's getting there.
I made a saw-horse out of old 2x4 and bought a splitting maul too.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3316073357_c187a1ce67_o.jpg)
Good job Bubba... 8)
You have a log pile to envy!
I dont know where you get to stack them, but I noticed they're tucked away in a corner.. If you can stack them freestanding (in a row) they get air on both sides - and if are in the sun even better - will season superquick. I found I didnt need to cover mine (stacked them up against a wire fence) as the wind dried them as quick as they got wet...
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Thanks :)
It's going to get a *lot* bigger before I'm done. This is only 2 van loads worth and I've found a venue with several hundred yards of felled silver birch just waiting to be taken away :)
You're right about the stacking. This is really a winter measure - as we get into summer I'll stack them in rows to season properly. I am a little constrained for space to do this as Ms Bubbs doesn't want the garden full of stacks of logs. I'll probably adopt some sort of rotation system or something.
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sorry, more log pr0n :)
Another couple of hours at my fallen tree - getting a bit more confident with the saw now - there's some 12" stuff to be tackled now i've taken off most of the smaller bits. The van didn't like going up hills very well with this lot on board.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3330672745_44d0ff242c.jpg)
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nice, I really wish I had a van at times
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How about a small trailer?
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Nice Bubbs, very nice. :thumbsup:
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I did have a nice log pile until a very pissed fatdoc decided to turn my chimnea in my yard into woodseats very own blast furnace last weekend. I rekon about a months worth of wood went up in 3 hours, flames were coming about four foot out of the top of it and the offshot was being doused in sparks
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:lol:
We were all nice and warm outside though...
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We installed a log burner just before Christmas. I have to admit its been one of the best additions to the house we've made. Anyway inspired by this thread i set about collecting wood for next year. Below are the fruits of my labour. I reckon i've a lot of splitting to do now, along with building another log store at the top of the garden....
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/5436897848_b23c41b4c7.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21396313@N08/5436897848/)
log pile 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21396313@N08/5436897848/#) by tomjslater (http://www.flickr.com/people/21396313@N08/), on Flickr
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5436896712_a572000525.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21396313@N08/5436896712/)
Log Pile 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21396313@N08/5436896712/#) by tomjslater (http://www.flickr.com/people/21396313@N08/), on Flickr
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(http://www.pfmrs.plus.com/andrew/stove.jpg)
I run the entire house on this stove, both heating and hot water. We only use a bit of oil in winter.
Awesome piece of kit paid for itself in a year.
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Nice, I kind of wish we'd got one with a back boiler...
How much wood do you get through each year Peewee?
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Nice, I kind of wish we'd got one with a back boiler...
How much wood do you get through each year Peewee?
When I had a wood burner (only heat source in house) I recon I would get through c.2 of what you have stacked up there in a winter... +-50% depending on conditions.. etc..
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We go through 6-8 Tonne a year, its not just a back boiler, its a proper boiler it has a 1inch skin of water all around the fire.
http://www.whatstove.co.uk/aarrow-stoves/aarrow-tf-50-stove.html (http://www.whatstove.co.uk/aarrow-stoves/aarrow-tf-50-stove.html)
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When I had a wood burner (only heat source in house) I recon I would get through c.2 of what you have stacked up there in a winter... +-50% depending on conditions.. etc..
c.2 = 0.2?
c.2 = 2.0?
c.2 = ? thanks
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Quality log pile Stom.
Long term plan for a burner like that peewee but expense of install and persuading Ms Bubbs the limiting factors.
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Main reason we went to wood was the price of oil, plus there's always wood to be had.
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6-8 tonnes is an awful lot of cutting & splitting! Unless you buy processed wood in?
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We have a Logsplitter and 2 chainsaws, 1 days a month to keep enough wood in the store, we have about 4 tonnes seasoning aswell.
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When I had a wood burner (only heat source in house) I recon I would get through c.2 of what you have stacked up there in a winter... +-50% depending on conditions.. etc..
c.2 = 0.2?
c.2 = 2.0?
c.2 = ? thanks
2... Lazy typing - on phone ;)
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Quality log pile Stom.
Long term plan for a burner like that peewee but expense of install and persuading Ms Bubbs the limiting factors.
Thanks Bubba,
Hows yours coming on this year?
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Still chewing through the remnants of the stuff I collected last spring/summer and before, but I really need to have a re-organisation as it's all just in a big pile. This is ok but some of the oldest wood is at the back so consequently I often mistakenly grab wood that's too new to burn. Need to build a proper stacking system like yours really. Also, being in a big pile it doesn't get enough airflow around the back.
This year I've been quite lazy on the collection front as our new neighbours chopped down three trees in the garden. Although this was a shame aesthetically they let me have all the wood so I've got about 50% of my needs for next winter already sorted - i've got this stuff in a proper seasoning stack too so should be good :)
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always stack your wood bark side down and it should dry just fine.
I have been looking at getting a log burning back boiler but every bit of advice I see is that it is just too inefficient compared to gas CH.
Just going to stick with an open fire and gas CH in the new house
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always stack your wood bark side down and it should dry just fine.
I have been looking at getting a log burning back boiler but every bit of advice I see is that it is just too inefficient compared to gas CH.
Just going to stick with an open fire and gas CH in the new house
And it's going to dry shitloads quicker once split.
Just interested Jim - what's the definition of 'efficient' in that statement? Are you talking based on the effort to collect, process and season the wood, or are you talking cost wise if you buy wood? Or cost of stove vs. savings on gas/coal/oil?
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I'm talking about the effort to collect, process and season and burn that wood ( not to mention cleaning out the ash etc...). that stove must be going for at least 6 hours a day or you live in a tiny 2 room house.
Cost wise, I suppose it depends on what you charge yourself out at per hour? I recon at £10/ hour then gas CH will be way cheaper
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I actually quite enjoy the whole process of collecting/sawing/splitting so the cost is less of an issue. But that said I'm not getting through anywhere the amount that Peewee is - I'd be buying some in for sure at those amounts. But if you know some friendly tree-surgeons then that's not such an issue anyway.
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If i factored the costof my time into the installation of the stove, gatherring and splitting of fuel etc, i'd be facing a huge huge loss. Like Bubba said, I actually quite enjoy the whole process. Must be the hunter gatherer instinct ;)
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I'm talking about the effort to collect, process and season and burn that wood ( not to mention cleaning out the ash etc...). that stove must be going for at least 6 hours a day or you live in a tiny 2 room house.
Cost wise, I suppose it depends on what you charge yourself out at per hour? I recon at £10/ hour then gas CH will be way cheaper
Yep, I can appreciate what you're on about - I have always fancied a stove but really it's about having a place to burn a fire in the house, and the resultant heat a bonus - unless I converted the whole house to be heated off it it'd just be an expensive, but nice way of getting the lounge far too hot - although I love the idea of getting free heat from free wood, I couldn't do the time needed to get it.
I've never really thought of my time in terms of hourly rate if it's taken up doing something I actually give a shit about though - so gathering and processing firewood I'm happy to for nowt.
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trouble is I work 42 hours a week, have 2 kids, barely have time to climb 1 or 2 days a week, rarely watch tv, do most of car mainatince, house diy, gardening etc and although I love getting my stihl out adn chopping and then splitting wood, let alone go out and collect it, I just don't have the time to do it on a weekly basis.
And then there is the conveineince of instant hot water/ central heating just coming on at the press of a button or the turn of a tap.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live the 'good life' but unfortunately modern life sucks
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trouble is I work 42 hours a week, have 2 kids, barely have time to climb 1 or 2 days a week, rarely watch tv, do most of car mainatince, house diy, gardening etc and although I love getting my stihl out adn chopping and then splitting wood, let alone go out and collect it, I just don't have the time to do it on a weekly basis.
And then there is the conveineince of instant hot water/ central heating just coming on at the press of a button or the turn of a tap.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live the 'good life' but unfortunately modern life sucks
Me too pal. I just don't dare touch the car, I leave that to the pros. Luckily they are VW and I receive a hefty discount.
Climbing 1 or 2 days a week and working 42 hours?! If only!
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12 hour shifts ;)