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the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: bubbles on October 07, 2018, 10:11:18 am

Title: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: bubbles on October 07, 2018, 10:11:18 am
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/ukc/lakeland_summer_round-up-693879?v=1

Anyone know what is being alluded to on the other channel in relation to the first ascent of Dramarama at Tilberthwaite.

Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on October 07, 2018, 05:20:54 pm
Looks like it’s now had posts removed by Alan James

 
Quote
Alan James - UKC and UKH -  on 18:35 Sat
Can we keep this one on positive stuff about some great ascents in the Lakes. Please keep other speculation and stories elsewhere, away from UKC.

Thanks

Alan

Could he mean here?  :lol:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on October 09, 2018, 10:08:11 am
Well there is a chance of having a clear and positive discussion about contentious issues on here....

I think some clarity and explicitness would be good. The initially "popcorny" posts about hold reinforcement on the Signs Of The Devil thread turned into a good acknowledgement of the issue and some useful information sharing. Better these things aren't swept under the carpet.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Teaboy on October 09, 2018, 11:02:43 am
The thing is most of us have no idea what the issue is nor what is being swept under the carpet (or not)!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on October 09, 2018, 12:41:06 pm
Aye, that's the problem. A few people dropped useless hints about seriously dodgy / damaging tactics (rock damage? plant clearance? what?) on UKC but the posts got deleted any no-one is saying any more. It's not exactly going to educate people or highlight stuff to be avoided is it....
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: jwi on October 09, 2018, 12:49:32 pm
Looks like it’s now had posts removed by Alan James

 
Quote
Alan James - UKC and UKH -  on 18:35 Sat
Can we keep this one on positive stuff about some great ascents in the Lakes. Please keep other speculation and stories elsewhere, away from UKC.

Thanks

Alan

Could he mean here?  :lol:

If so, I think he's right. UKC is not the place to have a initiated discussion about contentious subjects in climbing – UKB is much better for that, since many on here actually climb.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: teestub on October 09, 2018, 01:26:56 pm
I heard that the arete in question was hand carved in a collaboration between Andy Goldsworthy and Neil Gresham. Its potential first ascent by a young female headpointer, and The Process behind this, was being filmed for a new climbing movie called Brexit Rock, highlighting the wonderful opportunities available in our country, and the lack of any need to travel abroad, ever.

Young Birkett, ignorant of all the above, was driving down Yewdale one day and thought he spotted a stranded Herdy at the to top of the arete. Rather than looking for a path round the back, he followed the chalky clues, only to realise what he had mistaken for a sheep was in fact a few locks of Dave Pickford's hair.

I've been waiting for Lincoln to comment, he's not usually shy about spreading a bit of gossip!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: webbo on October 09, 2018, 02:27:08 pm
It also went quiet on the Obsession thread when Pete Gunn? said the lady in question had avoided the crux’s on both her   Armathwaite headpoints.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Adam Lincoln on October 09, 2018, 07:45:47 pm
I've been waiting for Lincoln to comment, he's not usually shy about spreading a bit of gossip!

 :ang:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Footwork on October 09, 2018, 08:00:01 pm
It also went quiet on the Obsession thread when Pete Gunn? said the lady in question had avoided the crux’s on both her   Armathwaite headpoints.

How do you avoid the crux on a route? Are these eliminates?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: webbo on October 09, 2018, 08:25:17 pm
I don’t think so. I think it was a case of moving right into a slightly easier route climbing that for a few moves then moving back left, rather than going direct.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on October 09, 2018, 08:33:55 pm
To be fair to the lass, as uninteresting as highballpoints of sub-cutting-edge routes are, there's very little easier on that entire bloody slab, I've been in the area many times and climbed several adjacent routes and it is a lonely and sketchy place to be.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: user deactivated on October 09, 2018, 10:41:21 pm
Its potential first ascent by a young female headpointer, and The Process behind this, was being filmed for a new climbing movie called Brexit Rock

Huh, you should break out the camera and get filming, there’s Potential for a ‘people’s choice’ award at Kendal in that idea surely? Although I’d prefer to see something about a guru like boulderer sat on a cowpat strewn piece of earth under demon wall roof, contemplating his navel for at least 5 years 😉
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: teestub on October 09, 2018, 10:47:28 pm
Although I’d prefer to see something about a guru like boulderer sat on a cowpat strewn piece of earth under demon wall roof, contemplating his navel for at least 5 years 😉

Sounds like something that would have to be shot on grainy 8mm, silent movie style with intertitle cards espousing the meaningless of life  ;D
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: user deactivated on October 09, 2018, 10:50:14 pm
It would be a great piece if it wasn’t all so utterly pointless
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: moose on October 10, 2018, 07:54:51 am
Although I’d prefer to see something about a guru like boulderer sat on a cowpat strewn piece of earth under demon wall roof, contemplating his navel for at least 5 years 😉

Sounds like something that would have to be shot on grainy 8mm, silent movie style with intertitle cards espousing the meaningless of life  ;D

I'd go for a Seventh Seal vibe; accentuate the bleakness of t'cliff (not difficult really), some portentous dialogue, a feeling of utter hopelessness and the inevitability of failure...  "Grit have mercy on us, because we are weak and ignorant and have insufficient core".  If you need someone to portray Death give me a shout - I'm already pretty cadaverous so it'll cut down on make-up costs.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 10, 2018, 08:05:50 am
so #nofilter then? ;)
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Ged on October 10, 2018, 10:27:42 am
So what happened at tilberthwaite then?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tommytwotone on October 10, 2018, 10:30:40 am
Is it something to do with R-Man's tripod?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 10, 2018, 10:48:13 am
So what happened at tilberthwaite then?

Yeah - someone spill the beans. Even by UKB standards this thread is obscure and cliquey!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Oldmanmatt on October 10, 2018, 11:43:59 am
So what happened at tilberthwaite then?

Yeah - someone spill the beans. Even by UKB standards this thread is obscure and cliquey!

This is a thread?
Not some sort of mass Tourettes?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 10, 2018, 12:10:17 pm
So what happened at tilberthwaite then?

Yeah - someone spill the beans. Even by UKB standards this thread is obscure and cliquey!

This is a thread?
Not some sort of mass Tourettes?

I believe the correct collective noun for Tourette’s is a parliament :)
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Doylo on October 10, 2018, 12:33:12 pm
Was Greshy involved mate?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Steve R on October 10, 2018, 01:47:10 pm
To be fair, you don't need Times Crossword level deciphering skill to make sense of most of Teestub's post. The unknown still for me (having no knowledge of this thing other than this thread and the UKC thread) is to what extent WB et al were aware of the 'preparation', people involved and intended 'use' for the route before he went and climbed it....
Teestub's post suggests they knew nothing but think I saw something to the contrary (before it got censored) on UKC.
what relation is Will to Dave out of interest?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: teestub on October 10, 2018, 02:11:58 pm
My post is entirely a work of fiction, I have no knowledge of the comings or goings involved at all.

It does look good though, good effort from Cal going ground up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAl1GbaA3Hc
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Steve R on October 10, 2018, 03:07:27 pm
 :lol: oh right, over to Lincoln then :jab:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Ged on October 10, 2018, 04:12:34 pm
I'm still utterly clueless as to what happened. Like even vaguely what happened. Is it even to do with climbing?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Oldmanmatt on October 10, 2018, 04:38:54 pm
At time of posting:

27 posts.
2213 views.
0 information.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Will Hunt on October 10, 2018, 04:46:22 pm
At time of posting:

27 posts.
2213 views.
0 information.

I think it's because nobody really cares. It sounds to me like someone nicked someone else's project which they'd cleaned. If that's the case then, depending on the amount of cleaning effort put in, who cares?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 10, 2018, 04:46:46 pm
At time of posting:

27 posts.
2213 views.
0 information.

29 posts...
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Oldmanmatt on October 10, 2018, 04:57:01 pm
At time of posting:

27 posts.
2213 views.
0 information.

29 posts...

30...

FFS! I don’t believe I actually checked back into the thread, when I saw new posts.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Doylo on October 10, 2018, 05:09:44 pm
I heard someone took a  :shit: under someone’s project.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on October 10, 2018, 05:55:40 pm
It’s like Waiting for Godot (aka Adam Lincoln)
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: user deactivated on October 10, 2018, 06:12:49 pm
Maybe someone bulldozed the bottom of the crag, chopped a tree or two down, built a patio then used the left over materials pallets to back up the gym mats.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 10, 2018, 06:25:33 pm
I heard someone took a  :shit: under someone’s project.

Mistook the crag for the Tor?

Tilberwaite sounds like the name of a Butler/Valet in a 1920's period drama...
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Cornish on October 10, 2018, 07:37:28 pm
It sounds like bigger news than it is, but ill give you the story in short.

Anna found a route, she cleaned it and started trying it. Will finds out about this route somehow, pretty hazy on that detail, I think he repeated a route near by or saw Annas rope from the road. Anyhow Will gave it a go and thought he could probably do it. He decides to not do it because its her project or whatever.. should be the end of things, but no.

Gresh finds out that someones been on it but doesn't know who and starts throwing toys out the pram (Gresh, if you're reading this, I think you can agree deep down that's what went on). I'm weirdly high on the suspect list for who's trying to nick the route so get lots of phone calls, turns out Annas being filmed on the thing for this film in brit rock and is quite upset and whatnot.

Will saw Greshs actions as rude and bullying.. were they? whos to say. alot of posts on facebook and insta got deleted which would have made good reading. Anyhow Will thinks he might aswell do it after all and does, followed by Cal and Tom

Nothing that mental there but some extra stuff went on thats got people in a twist; firstly Annas car/van got done in by a silver car, I think it reversed into her or something.. (Gresh saw this from the crag). He thinks it was Will, Will thinks it was an angry farmer because the "parking" is a passing place and the farmer had a right go at Cal for parking there saying people had been parking there for weeks. Farmers do have a bit of a rep in the lakes for this kind of thing so it wouldnt get a raised eye-brow from me if that was the case. 

Next up, as Doylo said, someones done a shit under the route. Frankly I think everyones confused about the poo, everyone but Gresh, he's angry about the poo.

Other normal ethical debates including use of pads(/gym mats and pallets by the looks of things) and grades (lets not go there) where had too.

I think that's all the major points..
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: dunnyg on October 10, 2018, 07:49:44 pm
Quality small climbing scene drama that. Ta for the insight!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: teestub on October 10, 2018, 07:50:41 pm
 :bow:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: webbo on October 10, 2018, 07:55:48 pm
We need more stuff like this. It’s far more interesting than someone spending 5 years on a 9b.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Will Hunt on October 10, 2018, 08:21:26 pm
I take it all back, that's great gossip.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on October 10, 2018, 08:41:35 pm
Useful information, from which one can glean, be respectful of projects, don't overreact especially without knowing what's going on, and have some clear communication.

Going for a spite shit under someone's route is pretty cool though.  :shit:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Oldmanmatt on October 10, 2018, 08:54:18 pm
Didn’t realise “Emerdale” was set in the Lakes...
 :slap:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Ged on October 10, 2018, 10:37:36 pm
Useful information, from which one can glean, be respectful of projects, don't overreact especially without knowing what's going on, and have some clear communication.

Going for a spite shit under someone's route is pretty cool though.  :shit:

And don't park in passing places.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 10, 2018, 11:22:52 pm
We need more stuff like this. It’s far more interesting than someone spending 5 years on a 9b.

Or 15 years on an 8b+ 😃
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Doylo on October 11, 2018, 08:36:32 am
We need more stuff like this. It’s far more interesting than someone spending 5 years on a 9b.

Or 15 years on an 8b+ 😃

The Oaks 8b isn’t it?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: SA Chris on October 11, 2018, 09:14:48 am
Frankly I think everyones confused about the poo, everyone but Gresh, he's angry about the poo.

You can't do a DNA test on poo (just like vomit).
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: T_B on October 11, 2018, 09:19:24 am
Didn’t realise “Emerdale” was set in the Lakes...
 :slap:

Offcomers innit. What do they expect ;)
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 11, 2018, 09:27:40 am
We need more stuff like this. It’s far more interesting than someone spending 5 years on a 9b.

Or 15 years on an 8b+ 😃

The Oaks 8b isn’t it?

:D what at tool I am :D

The Oak was my intention...
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shurt on October 11, 2018, 10:08:38 am
Maybe it's 'you can't really dust for poo'?

That's if you're tipping a hat to the great Spinal Tap!!!!

Either way this is one of the best threads in a long time. I just wish Gresh would post...

Frankly I think everyones confused about the poo, everyone but Gresh, he's angry about the poo.

You can't do a DNA test on poo (just like vomit).
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: SA Chris on October 11, 2018, 10:10:47 am
It was indeed a reference to the mighty Tap. I paraphrase (can't remember).
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on October 11, 2018, 10:27:58 am
Wait a minute. Hold up hold up. Enough of this triviality....

The Oak is ONLY 8b?? Really?? I thought Shark was spending 16+ years on something actually hard.  Like 8b+. Jeeesus.

 :shrug:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: davej on October 11, 2018, 10:41:27 am
How many redpoint attempts have you had on the Oak Shark? 
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Muenchener on October 11, 2018, 10:54:39 am
Wait a minute. Hold up hold up. Enough of this triviality....

The Oak is ONLY 8b?? Really?? I thought Shark was spending 16+ years on something actually hard.  Like 8b+. Jeeesus.

 :shrug:

Quite. Clearly 5.14a is (would be) a much, much bigger achievement. Can't imagine why Shark is frittering his life away on a mere 13d.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on October 11, 2018, 11:03:20 am
What's that in UIAA though?? Maybe it all makes more sense.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on October 11, 2018, 11:37:18 am
How many redpoint attempts have you had on the Oak Shark?

I have lost track of days let alone redpoint attempts though probably an average of 20 days per year since 2007 !
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: T_B on October 11, 2018, 11:43:49 am
 :o

Shame you packed in the BMC. You coulda been the face of a new Mend our Malham campaign.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on October 11, 2018, 11:50:20 am
The level of polish hasn’t changed in that time
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: SA Chris on October 11, 2018, 01:33:48 pm
How many redpoint attempts have you had on the Oak Shark?

There is currently a think tank composed of the best scientists in the country being pulled together to embark on this calculation. Along with money spent, and energy expended.

Hope the weather down there is better than here. Start seeping soon.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 11, 2018, 01:49:56 pm
How many redpoint attempts have you had on the Oak Shark?

There is currently a think tank composed of the best scientists in the country being pulled together to embark on this calculation. Along with money spent, and energy expended..

Nope. They’re all playing fruit ninja instead.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: danm on October 11, 2018, 01:53:07 pm
I've calculated the carbon offset needed for all those high-speed drives between Sheffield and Malham for you Simon. You need to reforest Northern Europe, like all of it.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: cheque on October 11, 2018, 02:14:57 pm
When I took these pictures a couple of years ago I asked Shark how many times he’d done Consenting. 800 was the estimate.... must be a good few more by now.

https://instagram.com/p/7EAkp9tx4q/

I like the contrast between Eddie’s look of excited determination and Shark’s- closer to that of a man watching his kid’s favourite Peppa Pig episode yet again.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: andy_e on October 11, 2018, 02:39:26 pm
I wonder what percentage of threads on UKB ascend/descend into oak-based shark slagging?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 11, 2018, 02:49:00 pm
I wonder what percentage of threads on UKB ascend/descend into oak-based shark slagging?


I blame Will.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: SA Chris on October 11, 2018, 03:33:11 pm
Bit like Godwin's Law.

If a thread runs for long enough, the Oak will eventually get mentioned.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: davej on October 11, 2018, 07:06:33 pm
Kudos Shark hope you do the Oak soon you truly deserve success👍👍👍
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on October 11, 2018, 09:07:32 pm
Thanks Dave
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: fatboySlimfast on October 11, 2018, 10:50:11 pm
Quote
Next up, as Doylo said, someones done a shit under the route. Frankly I think everyones confused about the poo, everyone but Gresh, he's angry about the poo.

I havent posted in a long time, dont really visit anymore, but this a damn fine thread . Genius
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Probes on October 11, 2018, 10:57:19 pm
I havent posted in a long time, dont really visit anymore, but this a damn fine thread . Genius
[/quote]

Absolutely!

Waiting for the appearance of a shit under the oak and a ukb meltdown.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: lagerstarfish on October 11, 2018, 11:43:46 pm
any video evidence of this poo?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Oldmanmatt on October 12, 2018, 06:54:02 am
any video evidence of this poo?

Unedited.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on October 12, 2018, 07:42:05 am
any video evidence of this poo?

Unedited.

Yes something stinks - proof is needed that it wasn’t just a smear campaign..
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: SamT on October 12, 2018, 08:51:38 am
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 12, 2018, 08:52:48 am
any video evidence of this poo?

Unedited.

I’d hope it was slapstick.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: mark20 on October 12, 2018, 09:18:03 am
logpile?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Serpico on October 12, 2018, 09:30:18 am
logpile?

No, just a single turd I believe.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: webbo on October 12, 2018, 11:28:43 am
logpile?

No, just a single turd I believe.
Meat eater then.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: cowboyhat on October 12, 2018, 08:12:24 pm
#35 - cool story, made me laugh.

Whats Neil's connection to it all though, why is he the one getting swoll for no reason? Whats his connection to this lass?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: PipeSmoke on October 14, 2018, 12:09:57 am
Gresh has been kind of mentoring/shepherding anna around for a few years now so i guess he's kind of invested in her succeeding. Fuck know's why he didnt say anything when she ventured off route numerous times though
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 14, 2018, 08:06:41 am
Is this actually a rock based brexit metaphor? Anna is Theresa May (who seems to have ventured off course) and David Davis has just curled a big one down under the arête.

;)
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Offwidth on October 14, 2018, 11:46:58 am
Thanks Dave

I really hope you finally get it as well. However, if so, its a quandary what should happen next, especially in terms of publicity. The Oak effort is one of life's reassuring certainties in a mad changing world.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: danm on October 14, 2018, 02:35:27 pm
Thanks Dave

I really hope you finally get it as well. However, if so, its a quandary what should happen next, especially in terms of publicity. The Oak effort is one of life's reassuring certainties in a mad changing world.
Indeed. The one thing that keeps me from despair, as sea levels rise, extreme weather becomes the new normal, and the idiots take over the reins of power, is thank God Simon is still trying the Oak.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on October 14, 2018, 02:58:18 pm
Thanks Dave

I really hope you finally get it as well. However, if so, its a quandary what should happen next, especially in terms of publicity. The Oak effort is one of life's reassuring certainties in a mad changing world.
Indeed. The one thing that keeps me from despair, as sea levels rise, extreme weather becomes the new normal, and the idiots take over the reins of power, is thank God Simon is still trying the Oak.

Indeed. Among all the bad stuff in the world, one mans act of ultimate futility shines out to make everyone else feel better :)

(Love you Shark - keep it up :) )
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Oldmanmatt on October 14, 2018, 04:02:24 pm
Sisyphus was a rank amateur by comparison.

Again, though, I’d love to know you had finished the damn thing Simon.
And (all piss taking aside) your dedication is worthy of much respect.

(Possibly, it’s more on the scale of Jan Tregeagle emptying Dozmary pool with a Limpet shell, with a hole in it, but mythic nevertheless).
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: ashtond6 on November 04, 2018, 09:52:29 pm
Fantastic advancements over on ukc  :pissed:

Firstly Anna, then Wills mate, followed by Will.

Turd remains unknown.

Slightly weird that they keep offering each other belays after all this  :shrug:  are partners that sparse in the Lakes????
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shurt on November 04, 2018, 11:04:38 pm
Good to get some stuff from the horses mouth. Although I wish Gresh would post something. Sounds like he may of had a moment and sent some regrettable texts... oh dear.

I didn't realise that the route had been sieged for over 2 months. Puts a different spin on it all for me.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: highrepute on November 04, 2018, 11:19:14 pm
Fantastic advancements over on ukc  :pissed:

Firstly Anna, then Wills mate, followed by Will.

Turd remains unknown.

Slightly weird that they keep offering each other belays after all this  :shrug:  are partners that sparse in the Lakes????

Can you provide a link. I've looked but couldn't find before the titles of the threads I did find got me too wound up.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Luke Owens on November 04, 2018, 11:25:20 pm
Fantastic advancements over on ukc  :pissed:

Firstly Anna, then Wills mate, followed by Will.

Turd remains unknown.

Slightly weird that they keep offering each other belays after all this  :shrug:  are partners that sparse in the Lakes????

Can you provide a link. I've looked but couldn't find before the titles of the threads I did find got me too wound up.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/can_you_steal_a_trad_project-694851
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 05, 2018, 07:04:46 am
Has someone made a film about a UKC thread? 😃
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on November 05, 2018, 09:22:07 am
Comedy gold. In case Alan gets his commercial knickers in a twist, here's the gist:

Quote
Anna Taylor -  on 22:45 Sat
In reply to DannyC:
Obviously everyone here has different views on the FA's of routes. But in the case of the Brit Rock film I was part of, a large part of the story was not included in the film for reasons I will try to explain here. I don't want to cause any huge fights on UKC, and for this reason until now i've held back writing down exactly what happened in the hopes it would all be forgotten about and everyone involved could move on. However there's been a lot of speculation, and in the hopes of clearing the air i've written down everything that went on regarding this route.

I found the route, cleaned it up and began working it. During this process I did leave a rope hanging down the route. This was because accessing the top of the butress was incredibly difficult and took me an hour of crawling through thorn bushes to get the rope there in the first place, so I didn't particularly want to do that twice every time I went to the crag. This may still have been a mistake, and perhaps I should have just removed the rope every time, but given how tiny and unpopular this crag is I really didn't think it would be an issue. A couple of weeks after I started working the route I realised someone had been on it as it was suddenly covered in tick marks that weren't my own, and seemed to be starting the route a different way from the other side of the arete. I asked Will Birkett (who claimed the FA) if it was him as I knew he lived close by and he told me it wasn't. My climbing partner Neil asked a couple of people he knew and everyone denied it so we had no idea. All I wanted was to be able to have a sensible conversation with whoever it was as they'd been using (and trashing) my ropes but no one seemed to know. At that point I would have been totally up for working the route with whoever this mysterious person was and if they were much closer to the lead than me, would have happily stepped back and let them have it. The route is about 15 mins drive from my house so i'd often nip down in the evening to work the crux moves on a shunt. I never actually saw anyone there but every time i'd go something would have been left. One evening I jugged up the rope to find my main anchor trashed, another time someone had s**t right at the bottom of the route, and another time a bit of my static rope at been torn off the anchor, and left attached to the rocks at the bottom of the route with a little bmc "check your knot!" sign stuck to it. I had no idea why this person/people were doing this, but they clearly knew I was also working the line and didn't want to be friendly. One evening Neil and I both saw a silver van similar to the one Will drives slow down and deliberately scrape along the side of mine that was parked in a layby under the crag. Will has since said that it wasn't him and it was probably a farmer angry with me for parking there, however the local farmer had driven past me in his vehicle plenty of times and had had no issue with me parking there, and the farmers of the area tend to drive landrovers and jeeps, not silver panal vans. However since we couldn't see who was driving from the road we never took further action despite what we both suspect.

One day we found a huge platform had been dug out of the ground on the slope beneath the route. This platform changed the route completely, into something that could be highballed rather than placing gear. Again I don't have an issue with people wanting to climb the route this way, I was certainly going to put pads under the route myself, but this platform was an absolute mess and such deliberate trashing of the ground under the route really isn't on, particularly in somewhere like the Lakes. There was also spilt chalk and cigarette ends left up there more than once. A few days later it airs on social media that Will Birkett had made the first ascent. Will had then emailed UKC asking for it to be published in an article but they turned him down, his girlfriend (using a fake surname) had then emailed them again asking more forcfully for it to be published but was again turned down.

I did slightly worry when Brit Rock came out that people would think Neil and I were over-reacting about this, it would be totally understandable to see it like that. All that was shown in the film was that I was working a route and someone jumped in at the last moment and did it first. Had that been the case, I would still probably have been a bit annoyed but that would have been the end of it, it could have been argued that the better climber won. The reason I was really annoyed was the behaviour shown by Will and his mates during this period as there really wasn't any need for it. We didn't include any of the more unpleasant details in the film, nor did we ever name Will Birkett for both his sake and the sake of the audience. It would just have been uncomfortable for people to watch if so. The only reason i'm now naming Will is because his ascent has been aired on both UKC (in the Lakeland Round up) and his own social media, so he clearly doesn't mind. And the reason i've written this down is because I do feel like people deserve to know the full story seeing as we didn't tell it in the film and there's been a fair bit of speculation flying around.

I hope this clears some of it up.



Quote

J_Spooner -  on 11:16 Sun
In reply to Anna Taylor:
Thought I'd address some of the points you've made as someone who knows Will and the situation surrounding the route.

Theres doubt in my mind that you were the first person to find this route. It had a peg in which was removed (Rightly so in my opinion. Pegs are good for the first ascentionist but quickly become unreliable) and Stuart Wood had been up to this buttress in 2006 and done a new E6 to the left called Fractious Applause.

The walk to the top of the crag is unpleasant but takes no more than 10 minutes. Your rope was not trashed, you had left it over a sharp edge and worn it to the core. My friend then replaced that piece of rope for you and as a joke put the check your knot sign below.

No idea why you think any of us would shit below the route. That's disgusting and just plain weird.

I've known Will for quite a few years and he's a genuinely kind hearted person who naturally avoids confrontation. He wouldn't ever think of damaging another persons property. The only scratches on his van are on the passenger wing from when he scraped into our neighbours wall parking his van!

Rivalries on routes is historically very common. Indian Face, Masters edge, Strawberries and many many more. Quite funny that Neil (In your film) seems to only be able to recall 10 examples where this has happened in the past??

On Friday I saw your film and have no doubt you are a talented climber and nice person. I thought the film did you a disservice by focussing on the route drama and not more on your climbing ability. It would've been great to see you climbing more classic routes in the Lakes.

If you ever need a belay or spot then the offer is genuinely always there.




Quote
Willly B -  on 12:09 Sun
In reply to Anna Taylor:
Hi Anna, watched your film recently , thought it was good.  No problem with been named in this. although I think some off the points your making may be incorrect.

I have also been to the top of the route ,it defiantly is a pain in the arse to get to, but the reason myself and others found out about this is because you could see the rope hanging down from the road.

as far cleaning goes, its never going to be pristine there due to its location. but I wouldn't have said it was clean when I looked at it, having spent a lot of time brushing it myself.       

after you sent me that message I kept off the route for a good 4 or 5  weeks. the reason I did clam the first accent was this.

Neil gresham (your climbing partner) started sending some (in my opinion) out of order messages to Lakeland climbers , people he dident even know and had never met, basicly threatening to stay off the route. there are some he sent to a Carlisle based friend that when I read , changed my mind about climbing it.

I think we can all agree lack of communication has been a large factor in this. Im sorry to hear that your rope has been trashed, I have a friend who said he replaced the rope there , and that it has been stolen. not sure who by ?

I dont know what to say to about the poo, just abit grim innit, not sure where it came from but I never had any experiences like that there.   

as for this platform that sprung up out of the ground as if by magic. when I was originaly going to climb it ( before you messaged me ) I built a small level, to place a few pads , this could have been removed, when I went back some bastards had destroyed the bottom. to be honest I assumed it was you guys, all the bracken had been cleared, I assumed for filming. and like you say a massive platform had been built and dug into the banking with shovels unfortunately. according to locals around the same time someone was up there attempting the route and been filmed ?

Im confused as to what the story is with the van, because Iv been told by people who received messages about it, the story started out as been a sliver car , that drove past then reversed back into a van ?  Now it seems to be a sliver pannle van exactly like mine scraping down the side of your's ? anyhow my van dose not have any marks that would resemble either version. Id never do this , defiantly not because of a climb. your more than welcome to have a look. Id advise going to the police about this matter as it sounds like a sirius offence .         

I never asked ukc to advertise it in any way. I put a post up for friends on social media . my girlfriend did, under her own name. which for personal reasons is not the same second name as on FB.

Id also contest the jumping on at the last second comment, the rope was hanging down that route for over 2 months ..... and there seems to been a lot of keen climbers looking at it in that time. Im surprised you dident see them there. hope this clears some stuff up . if you ever want a climbing partner give us a buzz, I'm normally keen. cheers will.   




Quote
Gresh - various times
In reply to unknown protagonists:

 :furious: :furious: :'( :boohoo: :shit: :shit: :furious:

Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 05, 2018, 09:39:47 am
Good work fiend. All you need to make this into a proper newspaper article is a quote at the end from the BMC declining to comment on on-going cases.... :D

Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: webbo on November 05, 2018, 09:45:27 am
Thread now on hold while Alan looks in to things. Probably that Anna accused Will of vandalising her car in the thread.
I guess that could be libellous, could get expensive for someone.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: cheque on November 05, 2018, 10:59:52 am
 :popcorn: This is an amazing story that could only be improved by the route turning out to be utter rubbish.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: SA Chris on November 05, 2018, 11:15:38 am
Can we rename this Tilbergate?

Fascinating.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: gme on November 05, 2018, 11:26:03 am
No comment on the situation from me but the grammar pedants on here will need to lie down this morning after reading it.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: finbarrr on November 05, 2018, 11:37:12 am
No comment on the situation from me but the grammar pedants on here will need to lie down this morning after reading it.

That one quote read like there is an app that translates typos into dyslexic misrepresentations. I want that app
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: thekettle on November 05, 2018, 12:29:48 pm
Tilbergate  :clap2:
This whole debacle is pure gold, particularly the way it changes channel every few weeks to minimise legal fees. If Gresh comments and clears things up I'll be gutted.
I believe Si O'Conor was driving the silver van, and it was the maligned phantom of Cesare Maestri that left the  :shit:  - he had some experience with long-running first ascent disputes..
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: grimer on November 05, 2018, 12:31:05 pm
Yes, thanks to all, this is great. I hadn't read it before as I thought it was some tedium about a zipwire or something!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 05, 2018, 01:27:44 pm
Yes, thanks to all, this is great. I hadn't read it before as I thought it was some tedium about a zipwire or something!

A Zipwire you say! That’s fucking scandalous. I’m going to write to the National Park Authority and John Prescott about it.

Can you do a Jam Crack special - complete with audio reconstruction of the events. I think the sound effects surrounding the poo discovery could provide significant creative scope :)
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Oldmanmatt on November 05, 2018, 03:00:55 pm
Yes, thanks to all, this is great. I hadn't read it before as I thought it was some tedium about a zipwire or something!

A Zipwire you say! That’s fucking scandalous. I’m going to write to the National Park Authority and John Prescott about it.

Can you do a Jam Crack special - complete with audio reconstruction of the events. I think the sound effects surrounding the poo discovery could provide significant creative scope :)

It should be a movie.

But only if Grimer plays Anna.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Fiend on November 05, 2018, 03:33:42 pm
Jam Crack mini-special with all the main protagonists together in one broadcast would be ace.

Now, call me cynical, but am I the only one with the following phrases swirling around in my head, with "possible" association to the amount of DRAMA involved:

"Must get enough footage for film segment"

"What would the sponsors think"

"Important social media exposure"

"Young protege"

"Example of Masterclass success"

"See this ascent, buy this product"


 :-\
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: SA Chris on November 05, 2018, 03:39:35 pm

But only if Grimer plays Anna.

And sings "do you want to build a pooman!"
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 05, 2018, 04:09:07 pm
Jam Crack mini-special with all the main protagonists together in one broadcast would be ace.

Now, call me cynical, but am I the only one with the following phrases swirling around in my head, with "possible" association to the amount of DRAMA involved:

"Must get enough footage for film segment"

"What would the sponsors think"

"Important social media exposure"

"Young protege"

"Example of Masterclass success"

"See this ascent, buy this product"


 :-\

I recon TeamLattice (fuck yeah) (TM) will soon bring out an app called TurdD where you shove your iPhone camera deep into a pile of your own fecal matter and it will analyse it and tell you what grade you boulder at as well as your star sign. At the moment its having calibration problems with sweetcorn.

;)
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: duncan on November 05, 2018, 04:20:47 pm
Has someone made a film about a UKC thread? 😃

The precedent is Assault on El Capitan (https://cartoonhd.care/film/assault-on-el-capitan) about an obscure aid route called Wings of Steel. It's a movie of this supertopo thread (http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/72849/Wings-of-Steel). Tilbergate has some catching up with Wingsgate (more than 3000 posts over 12 years) but has made a very promising start.

In a pleasing similarity, Wings of Steel also had a shitting at the base of the route incident. The perp. eventually confessed more than 30 years later.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 05, 2018, 04:25:03 pm
Has someone made a film about a UKC thread? 😃

The precedent is Assault on El Capitan (https://cartoonhd.care/film/assault-on-el-capitan) about an obscure aid route called Wings of Steel. It's a movie of this supertopo thread (http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/72849/Wings-of-Steel). Tilbergate has some catching up with Wingsgate (more than 3000 posts over 12 years) but has made a very promising start.

In a pleasing similarity, Wings of Steel also had a shitting at the base of the route incident. The perp. eventually confessed more than 30 years later.

Great post! Possibly the poo-perp was aware of this precedent!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: i_a_coops on November 05, 2018, 06:25:34 pm
Libellous conspiracy theory time....I reckon the  :shit: was Franco....

No actual evidence yer'onner but I think he has an unusual enough sense of humour.  :worms: :popcorn:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Doylo on November 05, 2018, 06:47:04 pm
Someone left a used jonny in a pocket on one of my projects. Think it might have been John Dunne.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Danny on November 05, 2018, 07:27:13 pm
Someone left a used jonny in a pocket on one of my projects. Think it might have been John Dunne.

How big was the pocket?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 05, 2018, 07:32:35 pm
Someone left a used jonny in a pocket on one of my projects. Think it might have been John Dunne.

Was it at waist height?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Will Hunt on November 05, 2018, 07:53:24 pm
Someone left a used jonny in a pocket on one of my projects. Think it might have been John Dunne.

How big was the pocket?

Bigger than an otter's, about the size of a clown's.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: petejh on November 05, 2018, 08:46:04 pm
Someone left a used jonny in a pocket on one of my projects. Think it might have been John Dunne.

Big t'issue?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 05, 2018, 08:54:42 pm
Someone left a used jonny in a pocket on one of my projects. Think it might have been John Dunne.

Big t'issue?

Was it ribbed?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: kingholmesy on November 05, 2018, 09:02:11 pm
In a pleasing similarity, Wings of Steel also had a shitting at the base of the route incident. The perp. eventually confessed more than 30 years later.

Great post! Possibly the poo-perp was aware of this precedent!

We’ll find out in about 30 years.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: bigironhorse on November 05, 2018, 09:04:46 pm
Someone left a used jonny in a pocket on one of my projects. Think it might have been John Dunne.

Big t'issue?

Was it ribbed?

Parthian shot
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: kingholmesy on November 05, 2018, 09:06:33 pm
I recon TeamLattice (fuck yeah) (TM) will soon bring out an app called TurdD where you shove your iPhone camera deep into a pile of your own fecal matter and it will analyse it and tell you what grade you boulder at as well as your star sign.

 :clap2:
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Teappleby on November 10, 2018, 11:24:35 pm
Mystery solved.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqAkUdlB3dB/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1llty5rbh6d
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Offwidth on November 19, 2018, 09:29:49 am
Saw Alastairs film on this incident at the BMC breakfast. None of the silly libelous stuff but arguably even more po faced on things like new route 'theft'  than on the social media storm and I could barely watch the discussion afterwards with Will, Grimer and Alastair.

At the opposite end of the spectrum there was also a showing of Paul 's film Free Flow, starring Hazel: a fabulously pointed advertising satire on the sugar drink industry and Ricky's film of Steve almost failing to find a new trad route on 14km of quality cliff (a future sports heaven it seems).
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on November 19, 2018, 09:40:50 am
Saw Alastairs film on this incident at the BMC breakfast. None of the silly libelous stuff but arguably even more po faced on things like new route 'theft'  than on the social media storm and I could barely watch the discussion afterwards with Will, Grimer and Alastair.

Heard it was excruciatingly awkward and that despite saying he was independent and the controversy had given the film more publicity Alastair was obviously livid. Probably a good thing Gresh wasn’t there as it could have kicked off big style.

Presumably Will is related to Dave Birkett?


Quote
At the opposite end of the spectrum there was also a showing of Paul 's film Free Flow, starring Hazel: a fabulously pointed advertising satire on the sugar drink industry

That’s hilarious. I won’t embarrass them but a friend obviously missed the satire and said it was a strange film that just seemed to be a advert for Hazel!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 19, 2018, 10:14:43 am
'a friend'....
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on November 19, 2018, 10:24:15 am
'a friend'....

You are a friend aren’t you?
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Will Hunt on November 19, 2018, 10:36:20 am
Saw Alastairs film on this incident at the BMC breakfast. None of the silly libelous stuff but arguably even more po faced on things like new route 'theft'  than on the social media storm and I could barely watch the discussion afterwards with Will, Grimer and Alastair.

Heard it was excruciatingly awkward and that despite saying he was independent and the controversy had given the film more publicity Alastair was obviously livid. Probably a good thing Gresh wasn’t there as it could have kicked off big style.

Presumably Will is related to Dave Birkett?

Do you mean that Alastair was angry at Will for "nicking" the route or he was angry that there'd been a social media storm?

I was speaking with a friend yesterday who said he was having a conversation with Ian Dunn recently. Ian had said something like: "we used to drive around looking for other people's projects to nick. We didn't want to do 'em, we just wanted to nick 'em. It was part of the craic!"

Personally, I think it depends how much effort has gone into the cleaning/platform building.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: shark on November 19, 2018, 10:52:33 am
Heard it was excruciatingly awkward and that despite saying he was independent and the controversy had given the film more publicity Alastair was obviously livid.

Do you mean that Alastair was angry at Will for "nicking" the route or he was angry that there'd been a social media storm?

I wasn’t there but heard that whilst saying (as a film maker) he was independent at the same time he looked very angry.

I imagine he would be most likely angry with Will for ‘nicking’ the route for Anna’s sake but that obviously meant there wasn’t a first ascent to film.

Or maybe he was just angry about the poo..


Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: teestub on November 19, 2018, 11:15:37 am
I hope they have some video of the panel discussion to release, it sounds like gold!
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: Teaboy on November 19, 2018, 11:22:58 am

Or maybe he was just angry about the poo..

I was disappointed that there wasn't a whiff of poo-gate in the film.
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 19, 2018, 11:46:10 am
'a friend'....

You are a friend aren’t you?

I thought I was a 'tier two' friend now..... *wub*
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: galpinos on November 19, 2018, 11:55:09 am
I'm disappointed in Grimer. If ever there was going to be a "host" who would slip a comedy plastic turd onto someone seat for the "panel discussion" it would be him. Poor show.......
Title: Re: What happened at Tilberwaite?
Post by: tomtom on November 19, 2018, 11:59:05 am
I'm disappointed in Grimer. If ever there was going to be a "host" who would slip a comedy plastic turd onto someone seat for the "panel discussion" it would be him. Poor show.......

Now Jam Crack has gone big time he's gone all corporate... Sparkly water AND haribo's in the green room apparetly...
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