UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: AMorris on July 14, 2014, 09:38:49 am
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I was thinking last night about how I would feel if a travelling mega-wad (i.e. Nalle or Ondra) made his way over to the darkest corners of the lakelands and managed to repeat some of Gaskins untouchables.
I'm thinking of Shadowplay mostly, I think the majority of us are of the opinion that it is in fact somewhere north of 8C. So how would you feel if (for example) he came over and got first repeat of it and declared it to in fact be 8C, quashing any romantic notions about it being essentially impossible and maybe one or two grades harder than anything else in the world? I think we all enjoy the fact that it has not seen any repeats, giving weight to the theory that it is a secret 8C+ and that G actually IS that strong in comparison to everyone else.
I think we have the hardest climbing in the world here and the fact that none of his harder stuff has seen concerted attempts just adds to the mystery. I suppose I would be disappointed if it turned out that his harder stuff (particularly Shadowplay and VNB) weren't any harder than the grades suggest.
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Yes.
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Maybe.
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Pink anasazi
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I wouldn't believe it.
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Did he ever agree to go back and see if the holds were all still there on Shadowplay (that's the one DV thought holds must have broken on right?)?
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I think only Jasper Sharpe can answer this topic.
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Did he ever agree to go back and see if the holds were all still there on Shadowplay (that's the one DV thought holds must have broken on right?)?
Yeah thats the one, alot of people have said that it might have lost holds since the FA. He said he would go back there with DV and have a look at it again to see if its still in original condition but its just getting the time to do it. I think Shark was trying to sort something out with that but I don't know how far he got.
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Did he ever agree to go back and see if the holds were all still there on Shadowplay (that's the one DV thought holds must have broken on right?)?
Yeah thats the one, alot of people have said that it might have lost holds since the FA. He said he would go back there with DV and have a look at it again to see if its still in original condition but its just getting the time to do it. I think Shark was trying to sort something out with that but I don't know how far he got.
I tried to set things up with Dan Varian to go up there to meet John. Adam Hocking was doing a film project that it could have been part of but apparently he's had a kid and I haven't heard anything since.
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Did he ever agree to go back and see if the holds were all still there on Shadowplay (that's the one DV thought holds must have broken on right?)?
Yeah thats the one, alot of people have said that it might have lost holds since the FA. He said he would go back there with DV and have a look at it again to see if its still in original condition but its just getting the time to do it. I think Shark was trying to sort something out with that but I don't know how far he got.
I tried to set things up with Dan Varian to go up there to meet John. Adam Hocking was doing a film project that it could have been part of but apparently he's had a kid and I haven't heard anything since.
Poor excuse!
But seriously, congrats to him in that case. Would have been nice to resolve a bit more of the Shadowplay mystery though.
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But it wouldnt be any fun if it was all resolved... :)
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More than happy to nip over whenever to jog john's memory on that vague series of layaways whenever. tin openers at the ready! I have a decent memory of the boulder in question having climbed there since before it was ascended. A Morris, AFAIK no one has ever pulled on the first four moves, including John on the day when he went with Ray to get pics, hence 0 pictures and just John's word. Would be good to clear that up.
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Would be awesome to clear up!!!! Is the consensus that this is the most impossible/hardest looking of all the unrepeated gaskins problems?
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No the consensus is that it's not been climbed
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More than happy to nip over whenever to jog john's memory on that vague series of layaways whenever. tin openers at the ready! I have a decent memory of the boulder in question having climbed there since before it was ascended. A Morris, AFAIK no one has ever pulled on the first four moves, including John on the day when he went with Ray to get pics, hence 0 pictures and just John's word. Would be good to clear that up.
Do you have John's number/email to sort it out direct ? Maybe better to do it as a low key meet up off camera.
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I've got his email i think but not number (PM if you like with email to check if its current as not emailed him since little women days). agreed i've no time for youtube schadenfreude, it just needs sorting out as it is a very important problem if it has been climbed, and a quick ironing out of the record books if it hasn't. I'd prefer to know it has, rather than have to guess either way. Much of John's development has been brilliant for the south lakes as he has put quite a few crags on the map, although it's probably worth pointing out that Si o' put "little font" on the map, there is currently more evidence in the public domain supporting that he climbed little women first (posed photo in a 6cish pull on position) than John having climbed shadowplay. Then again i've also defended john to quite a few climbers in the past, even the odd huge german one whilst stood under gossip but ultimately they didn't know the key facts either way as all they had was a very unlikely sequence and no witnesses. So anyway i've been on both sides of the opinion fence over the years.
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AFAIK no one has ever pulled on the first four moves, including John on the day when he went with Ray to get pics, hence 0 pictures and just John's word. Would be good to clear that up.
Story I heard was it rained and they didn't go. Is this wrong?
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No the consensus is that it's not been climbed
Is this really the consensus? This may be :worms: but I have for a while been of the opinion that he has never given anyone any reason to doubt his ability to climb really unspeakably hard and that Shadowplay is another one of those G style problems that he seems to excel at. He obviously convinced Gresh enough for him to nudge John to go for 8C rather than 8B+ (I suppose that gives more weight to the snapped holds theory) given the apparent difficulty of the line.
My general explanation for it seeming so unclimbable is that when I was climbing in the low 6's I used to look at problems in the high 7's and 8's which seemed to me to be impossible (monk life appalled me) and I couldn't imagine how anyone could hang the holds let alone do the moves, it helps if you seem someone do said problem and brings it into the realms of reality quickly. I even remember seeing pebble wall at almscliff for the first time and wondering how it was possible to pull on those pebbles, but in reality its not hard if you know how. Obviously this is slightly different since even top climbers have looked at it and not seen a line, but I think my general point still stands.
That's just my musing though, I truly understand why people doubt the ascent but I like to keep the faith!
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No the consensus is that it's not been climbed
No it's not. You're opinion is that it's not been climbed; which is not a consensus.
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No the consensus is that it's not been climbed
No it's not. You're opinion is that it's not been climbed; which is not a consensus.
:agree: lets hope john agrees to go and explain to dan v about holds sequence etc, dan was also saying he can remember how the holds were before it was ascended does it look like they have broke?
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I can feel a poll coming on maybe ?
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I think we need to form a committee to determine the wording for a poll on whether or not we have reached a consensus on the consensus. I nominate Sloper to chair the committee :)
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I can feel a poll coming on maybe ?
As long as we can title the poll "Is John Gaskins a liar who falsely claimed problems he didn't climb"...
...and then only have the pain au anasazi options available.
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I can feel a poll coming on maybe ?
I think that given John gave up his time for us to be interviewed and also said he was happy to meet Dan it would be churlish to post a poll like that
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A return of the G is what we need.
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I can feel a poll coming on maybe ?
I think that given John gave up his time for us to be interviewed and also said he was happy to meet Dan it would be churlish to post a poll like that
Amen. (please do not misinterpret my attempts to form a poll committee as anything other than purile humour).
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I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.
Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently
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I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.
Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently
From what I gather secondhand is that a number have gone up - taken one look and said this impossible / unclimbable so the value of the meeting is whether John can show Dan a credible sequence that looks feasible or can point to where the holds where that he used that have now come off. John was vague in the interview about the sequence but hopefully being in front of the problem will bring it back (like when Malc realised what Malc One Armers problem was when we went to the Tor as before he said he had no recollection of it). Yes the outcome of a JG/DV meetup wont amount to absolute proof either way but it won't be of absolutely no value either.
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I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.
Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently
I understood about the first paragraph, but I was genuinelly interested in the problem and only hearing rumoours of how hard/impossible it looks and not seeing it but had seen il pirata etc was literally asking does most people think it looks the hardest. Not once did I say he had or hadnt climbed it but I completely agree with dan v about the truth needing to out point. No need to get fucking irate about anything.
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No need to get fucking irate about anything.
Read through the old threads without getting dizzy to understand why there is a degree of futility in discussing these issues.
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No need to get fucking irate about anything.
Read through the old threads without getting dizzy to understand why there is a degree of futility in discussing these issues.
I have read alot of them and researched the net, I literally only asked if shadowplay was considered the hardest/impossible looking out of all jg problems, and when I said it be good for jg and dv to go to shadowplay sharks post sums exactly what I meant.
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Pretty sure Johnny G said VNB contained the hardest moves on any of his problems.
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I've read all the comments since my last post and i'm going to put it out there,
Pink Anasazi (old version)
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Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike
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I look forward to Shauna climbing it
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I know my opinion is not a consensus which is why i said its a consensus not my opinion. Have you realised yet this thread is not getting a lot of replies? Its because its going to go round in circles again and people can't be bothered.
Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently
Well it's not a consensus either so what on earth was it. The thread has drifted off topic from my original intention of finding out how people would feel if it got a repeat and confirmed at 8C, in fact it wasn't even specific to Shadowplay just anything considered 'another level', I just used Shadowplay as the example. Don't complain about the futility of discussing a topic which you clearly considered relevant enough to weigh in on, sending us on a whole new tangent. I would just like to see what JG says about its current state and I'd assume it would jog some kind of memory of the ascent.
Who pissed on your chips?
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he pissed on his own chips just to prove how tough he is
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Didn't the best climber in the world look at VNB for a few seconds, politely smiled and left?
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Riddle me this you raving idiots. John takes Dan to shadow play and says 2 holds have come off, i can't remember what i did here, or i saw a goat getting eaten by a boar while i was here. What does any of this mean? It means the same thing, it doesn't prove anything one way or another. So stop talking like a set of fuckwits, go knock on some doors or something to reach out to people. Jesus christ, evidently
This post has brightened up my evening.
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What if they both go to Shadowplay and get eaten by the now-carnivorous boars??
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I couldn't care less these days. We've spent the best part of a decade going round in circles on UKB and I think the engine has run out of steam at last.
Pulling on is basically a sport in itself and for that, the toe hook section of VNB is an uber feat. Lee, didn't you once grade campus routines? Or wait, was that you rubbishing woz trying to grade them. I'm getting confused in older age. Either way you're still the highlight of my daily forum allowance.
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Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike
It is.
There are a few rules about memory:
- Memory is generally shit and everyone is better/worse at remembering different things. (We often reconstruct rather than remember without being aware we're doing that.)
- We think our memory is much better than it is, particularly about details.
You might think you remember details from an ascent 15 years ago, doesn't mean someone else would, regardless of how long they'd spent projecting it or how important it was to them. You say that him going up and remembering enough to say the holds have altered wouldn't change anything, and then use his lack of memory of the sequence as a stick to beat the boar with.
Or something like that.
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Didn't the best climber in the world look at VNB for a few seconds, politely smiled and left?
They must have been having a lot of fun. :clown:
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Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike
It is.
There are a few rules about memory:
- Memory is generally shit and everyone is better/worse at remembering different things. (We often reconstruct rather than remember without being aware we're doing that.)
- We think our memory is much better than it is, particularly about details.
You might think you remember details from an ascent 15 years ago, doesn't mean someone else would, regardless of how long they'd spent projecting it or how important it was to them. You say that him going up and remembering enough to say the holds have altered wouldn't change anything, and then use his lack of memory of the sequence as a stick to beat the boar with.
Or something like that.
but surely you would have constructed a memory of your hardest projects/boulders?
i know i have, and most people i know who have spent more than two sessions on a problem.
and when you recreate those problems on a board and practice them day in, day out?
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but surely you would have constructed a memory of your hardest projects/boulders?
i know i have, and most people i know who have spent more than two sessions on a problem.
and when you recreate those problems on a board and practice them day in, day out?
...you'll still be susceptible to all manner of cognitivie biases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases).
I think the point Dense is making is that the only proof this problem has been climbed will be evidence that someone has climbed it (credible (multiple) witnesses and/or video footage). Knowing that some holds have broken and/or credible sequences on holds that no longer exist won't provide any support to their claimed ascents.
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Didn't the best climber in the world look at VNB for a few seconds, politely smiled and left?
No, I've not been*
*assuming the best by definition as the one having the most fun.
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but surely you would have constructed a memory of your hardest projects/boulders?
i know i have, and most people i know who have spent more than two sessions on a problem.
and when you recreate those problems on a board and practice them day in, day out?
...you'll still be susceptible to all manner of cognitivie biases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases).
I think the point Dense is making is that the only proof this problem has been climbed will be evidence that someone has climbed it (credible (multiple) witnesses and/or video footage). Knowing that some holds have broken and/or credible sequences on holds that no longer exist won't provide any support to their claimed ascents.
I agree!
I was trying to say I find it strange that apparently JG does not have a clear "construction" of his ascent (however flawed)
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I was trying to say I find it strange that apparently JG does not have a clear "construction" of his ascent (however flawed)
What I was trying to say was that because you or Dense and people you know might have a clear construction (however flawed) of problems you've climbed it doesn't mean that someone else will.
I think the point Dense is making is that the only proof this problem has been climbed will be evidence that someone has climbed it (credible (multiple) witnesses and/or video footage). Knowing that some holds have broken and/or credible sequences on holds that no longer exist won't provide any support to their claimed ascents.
I agree but he also said
Shark pls, malc couldn't remember his one armer because he held a hold and did a one armer on it. John couldn't remember his sequence on one of the so called hardest boulder problems in the world. It's not the same nor is it alike
implying that the lack of memory casts further doubt on his claims and that's what I was taking issue with.
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Of course it casts doubts on his claim. You don't just walk up to a problem like Shadowplay, give it a quick brush, climb it in a session and then fuck off to the pub and forget about it. It takes time, several visits probably, over weeks, months or even years. You spend so long on problems that are at your absolute limit that the moves (or at least the hardest moves) become part of your DNA.
Having said all that, I really can't be arsed with this any more, either. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I just choose to believe what I believe. Which is a shame.
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Is this thread
... a fucking joke?
Or a trolling fest?
We've had this out already
repeatedly
close your eyes
imagine yourself as a happy child. The sun is shining, it's warm, there is a pleasant breeze, and the wind whistles gently through the branches. You are standing ankle deep in a babbling brook, the warm water bubbling and swirling and flowing along.
if the water flows west, then you are from lancashire. Wake up, someone from liverpool is stealing your car! But you are a believer, and as you sprint towards your retreating vehicle you can be comforted by the thought that G is not a fantasist and yes he really did do all those problems.
If the water flows east, you are a cynical yorkshire bastard, G is a lying bastard, and your brother has the socks and shoes today which is why you're standing in the stream with cut feet, wondering why he's killed your kestrel.
If this all sounds mad, then you're from somewhere else, don't have an affinity with roses, and frankly don't deserve an opinion.
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Good post Lund. I'm from Sussex though which is why my thoughts on the matter are objective, evidence based and100% correct. And why I've not even bothered posting them on this thread.
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:furious:but you just have!!! We thought the therapy was going so well!
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I'm also from Sussex where the rivers flow south, but in the west we give people the benefit of the doubt. Although we were once duped into believing that Jasper Sharpe was a future Hubble ascentionist ;D
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I'm also from Sussex where the rivers flow south, but in the west we give people the benefit of the doubt. Although we were once duped into believing that Jasper Sharpe was a future Hubble ascentionist ;D
Sounds like the basis for a series of Mammut films...
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Best get the bleeper ready for the audio then ;)
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This thread is not what I intended it to be... I have learnt a valuable lesson about ukb today.
I declare this thread officially deceased.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Well that's that then, good.
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This thread is not what I intended it to be... I have learnt a valuable lesson about ukb today.
I declare this thread officially deceased.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What was the lesson learnt?
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Don't piss on your own chips.
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what about pissing on my own chips via my iPhone using Tapatalk ?
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I think the take home message here is that it's not safe to eat anyone else's chips in case they've previously been pissed on :)
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I guess if you had a quick sniff it would be possible to tell the difference between piss and vinegar?
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what if it's cute female geology students with hard hats that are too big for them and tight fitting high viz vests doing the chipping?
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I guess if you had a quick sniff it would be possible to tell the difference between piss and vinegar?
Does Denses' piss smell of vinegar? He should see a doctor about that.
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what if it's cute female geology students with hard hats that are too big for them and tight fitting high viz vests doing the chipping?
Ah.. Pissing on limestone chips. Now it would be easy to tell if it was vinegar or piss in that case... #SCIENCE.
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The 'hard hats that are too big for them' is an interesting comment Lagers - and a revealing insight into an unusual fetish...
Tried ukoversizedhardhats.com? There's probably a thread about it on the other channel...
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more of an observation about the hard hats, than about a preference
also, I have no interest in pissing games
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Isn't that a song by Snow Patrol?
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what if it's cute female geology students with hard hats that are too big for them and tight fitting high viz vests doing the chipping?
Wot, like this?
(http://www.struts.co.uk/party-fancy-dress-shop/images/hi%20vis%20vestbrs.jpg)
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Plastic hammers tend not to be too much of an issue.
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Bounce by the Ounce Crazy Guy 10 Minute Loop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZXSM_6m7hU#ws)
Playas should stop hatin. The G was spotted in a Preston nightclub recently. He clearly doesn't care what any of you think.
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Apparently he was up all night dancing like that before he did Shadowplay. That's why he can't remember the moves he was off his tits.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
A subtle genius in the way he moves, like he knows the secrets of the universe and is trying to express them to Preston through the medium of techno.
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confucius say... hidden within those hand movements is the key to the start of shadow play !! :dance1:
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I thought he was pointing out which holds had fallen off.