UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => power club => Topic started by: shark on March 26, 2017, 06:23:42 pm
-
11.3-5
M. Eve. Depot New circuit set. Worked up grades Mainly had goes on new Black 7b+ (let's not pretend they are circuits - it's traversing)
T. Noon BMC Yoga Eve. Depot. More traversing. Finished with 10x4 on the minute pull ups
W. Tweaked back, probably from pullups
T. Back still sore.
F. AM. Tor. Nice day. Back improved but could feel glands in my neck swelling i.e. a cold on its way. Last to arrive due to work and property shizzle Met Nick, nai and Tom there. Dogged up Obscene Toilet - first redpoint nearly did it - tickled large undercut - Sun in eyes a bit. Shortish rest as sun coming round. Wore sunglasses. Felt tired at shake and fell off crux. Sacked it off and went home. Short session.
F. Lovely day. Sniffles, sore throat, tired. Drove to Bristol and back
S. Lovely day. Sniffles, sore throat, tired.
Avoided a cold all winter so overdue one. No interest in climbing or training while I feel like this. Easy week I expect til Im over it :(
-
STG: Send existing projs at Crag X (NI), Mega Crag X (NI), G.Orme and Gideon.
MTG: first 8b+ (Mecca), spring. Continue bolting/sending new routes at Mega Crag X (spring-summer). Explore more of Ireland. Send 2 projs on L.Orme (late summer)
LTG: 8c, by June 2018
Week 7 / 10 before starting trying Mecca.
M.
T. Fingerboard max hangs. 5 reps of 10secs with 26kg on 20mm edge (BM slots with battery in).
W. Boardroom. Ancap on campus board. 4 reps of 1357,down ladder,1357. Rest between reps= 4x work time. 2 sets with 10mins rest between sets. Tired, only completed 6 reps and failed on last 2.
T.
F. Hornby Crags. Easy Aerocap on routes. First routes outside this year. Retro-flashed the 7a and 6b+, 6b+ 6b+. Lovely evening.
S. Quick play on pillbox wall to get reacquainted with the moves on Millennium Drive.
S. Mill in the a.m. Ancap on campus board. 4 reps of 1357,down ladder,1357. Rest between reps= 4xwork time. 3 sets with 10mins rest between sets. Completed 10 of the twelve reps, and almost completed the last two reps. Time to drop the rung size. Bodafon Buttress in the p.m. for easy aerocap: 8mins on traverse, 2 mins off, 8mins on. Beautiful evening.
Transition to power and aeropow after next week.
-
STG: Train for Swizzy
MTG: 7C
LTG: 8A
M: Did some weights and press-ups at home
T: Indoors, not bad
W:
T: Short, sharp session on the board indoors. Good session, felt strong
F: Drove North
S: Rivelin first, did Mini Beak. So hot and sweaty to retreated to the tor. Did Boot Boys Start and then tried little extra direct. Crushed finger in the pocket and lost feeling in the tip, weird. Still not back to full feeling now... Not psyched or feeling particularly strong.
S: Early hit at Curbar, did Early Doors:
https://vimeo.com/210151652
Then went to Baslow, ground under Eagle stone sodden. Tried Heroes, almost did the LH but my core ran out of juice. Retreated to Tom's Cave to look at Hannibal, hard.
-
STG - Continue training and have a quick ascent of Tremolo. Don't get injured.
MTG - In the autumn be getting 7c in a session and open account on an 8a. Don't get injured.
LTG - The Groove, Supercool and Statement of Youth. Don't get injured.
Missed the previous two weeks but have come back with my best week of climbing in a long time.
Two weeks ago, did very little (before a holiday).
Last week, went to Granada for a relaxing holiday. Nibs - lots of good recommendations from a while back, thanks! Ate, drank and slept lots. Had two half days climbing and did a 7a second go after going the wrong way on the onsight... Made a new training plan on the flight back having finished my first 8 week "rehab" training which went well.
M - City Bloc. Campus session. Did 1-2-5, 1-4-5 and 1-3-5 three times (both sides) on the standard rungs. Couldn't quite get 1-4-6 on this rung. Then did AnCap campus ladders, 1-2-3-...-10, match and back down. 20 moves. Managed 4 sets and was ruined. Did the remaining 4 sets with feet on. Think I need to drop the number of moves to 15 this coming week. Aero Cap to finish.
T - Ran to work (2km) and did 40 mins of knee physio.
W -
T - Depot. 30 degree Board Session. Got some projects and I USED CRIMPS AGAIN!!!! YYFY!!! It felt so good being on small holds again. Fuck yeah! Did repeaters after this. 4 x 7 on 3 off. 8 sets with 40s rest inbetween. AeroCap to finish the session before being kicked out for closing.
F - Ran to work (2km) and did 40 mins of knee physio.
S - Anston Stones. GREAT SESSION!
Managed Beretta (7A+) quickly which was an old Nemesis.
Got Fine Art (7A+) first go after some good beta was given, tried this about 3 years ago once or twice and didn't get close.
Then Did Apprentice Prow (7A+) in a few goes.
Apprentice Wall (6C+) in a few goes (got over the the lip on the flash but wasn't sure if it went higher so did it again to be certain.
The most successful bouldering I've had in a long time! Had a quick plan on Bullet and Black Crow which I'm keen to get back on.
S - Managed to get a last minute partner for Malham. Another ace session! Wasn't sure how this would go initially but managed 4 new routes.
Did Free and Even Easier (7a+) as a warm up on top rope and then on Lead (tried it once or twice 2 years ago)
Then did Sycophants (7a) first go (tried this once about 4 years ago)
The Brooklyn girls (7a) first go
Then slipped off the first moves of Just another Dead End Job (7a) on the onsight (I forgot about Malham footholds) but did it easily second go.
Super psyched after the best week I've had in bloody ages. No pain in my finger. Lots of training success and loads of new ticks. Makes me think this season on the limestone may go a bit better than I first hoped...
Booked a Lattice Assessment for 6 April too so interested to see how that comes out...
-
STG: stop the rot
MTG: something hardish longish free
LTG: something more hardish longish free
M: Nowt
T: Climbing outside after work, traverse wall. 1x7b, 1x8a, 1x8a+, 1x8b (with 2 falls), 1x8a+, 1x8a.
W: Nowt
T: Epic day at work
F: Nowt
S: Lovely day, first dry and non-freezing morning out on the bike, the Isle is calling to you nibs...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3945/33485982572_e68bc8d9cf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T23pZ7)20170325_093730 (https://flic.kr/p/T23pZ7) by Nik Jennings (https://www.flickr.com/photos/140746835@N06/), on Flickr
Afternoon at the traverse wall 1x7b, 1x8a, 8x8a+, 1x8a, 1x7b+
Evening at a gig, The Balitc States, good.
S: Combo of childrens parties and mothers day stuff.
Reasonable mileage but still only two sessions in a week.
-
Strong weekend there James! Bodes well for the season?
STG - Boulder > 7a
MTG - not sure
LTG - not sure
Monday
Tired session at Arch building one. Not too productive, onsighted everything new up to hendrix and yurple circuits
Tuesday
Rest
Wednesday
Arch Building one, better session. Did a couple of V6's and had some good attempts on some Greens (v6-8)
Thursday
Rest
Friday
Boulders
Onsighted everything new up to Hendrix and Yurple (v3-5)
Fingerboard - Max Hangs
Meant to be doing 7 second hangs @ -5kg. But whilst warming up, realised that I always hang at a 90º lock when doing one arm hangs. I tried hanging off a straight arm, and lo and behold managed to one arm hang for 4 seconds at +5kg (106% of bodyweight) on the bm2k bottom middle hold. I guess I'm no longer weak fingered... YYFY
With this in mind I did 8 sets of 10 second hangs at -5kg for right hand and -7kg for left hand. Managed all but last hang fairly easily.
Saturday
Drove around the Sandstone trying to find a new crag to visit that was dry. Both Eridge and Harrisons a bit damp so ended up at Bowles again.
Tried Banana Hammock 6C which felt tough in the sun/hot temps, great problem though. Best i've tried on southern sandstone.
Did Tobacco Road Extension 6B+
Tried Sonic Blue 7B, some progress, worked out how to get the fingerlock solidly.
Tried Phasis, 7C. Could hit, but not quite hold the first move.
Fun session, quite hot and sunny but keen to keep trying harder boulders and hopefully learn how to climb a bit harder!
Sunday
nowt
-
(Thanks Shark)
this winters colds have been nasty - take care of yourself and don't try to do too much too soon
-
Mon -
AM - garage bouldering - Took an age to get going, nearly sacked it but it turned into a decent session. Two med-long term projects ticked and a new hard problem set which I eventually did all the moves on but couldn't link two of them together
PM AeroCap at mini works
Tue - garage 4x4. Tough to get warm again. Around 2:30 work, 3 mins rest, 2 sets. Was struggling in the second set.
Wed rest
Thu Garage AnCap (after another slow start) - started failing slightly earlier in the last 3 reps of the final set. Just about right.
Fri - Garage warm up, ready to go surprisingly quickly today so managed a couple of attempts on the new problem - managed to link two moves - progress) before heading to the Tor for spankings on Chimes (wet), Hot Flushes (sun) & Ben's (weak). Managed Saline Drip and was making headway on the sit when skin and sun stopped play. Never leave the garage.
Sat - AeroCap in garage.
Sun nowt
-
(Thanks Shark)
this winters colds have been nasty - take care of yourself and don't try to do too much too soon
I've also not had one yet, feels like a ticking bomb
-
2 weeks worth
2017 Goal - 12 of 40 Ticked
M-Rest/work
T-MB Session - 25 problems up to given grade of 8A (prob actually 7C)
W-Travel
T-Drive 11 hours
F-Beach - Surf
S-Mtn Bike
S-Surf
M - Travel / short 30min bike
T-Climb Joshua tree. 10 problems including a 7C+ for tick #10 of 40.
W-Travel - drive 10 hrs
T-Fly back to AK
F-FB MAW 3x10secx18mmx255total weight, MB(16 problems up to 7C) , and short outside session working new 8A/+just put up the previous Sunday by a mate.
S-Rest/Work/Family
S-fly overnight, Short AM session pre rain. Check #'s 11 and 12 of 40!!
Stoked. Good couple of weeks.
-
Saturday
Drove around the Sandstone trying to find a new crag to visit that was dry. Both Eridge and Harrisons a bit damp so ended up at Bowles again.
Tried Banana Hammock 6C which felt tough in the sun/hot temps, great problem though. Best i've tried on southern sandstone.
Did Tobacco Road Extension 6B+
Tried Sonic Blue 7B, some progress, worked out how to get the fingerlock solidly.
Tried Phasis, 7C. Could hit, but not quite hold the first move.
Fun session, quite hot and sunny but keen to keep trying harder boulders and hopefully learn how to climb a bit harder!
Stone Farm was nice and dry, but if you're driving any distance I think you prob made the right choice in terms of more problems of better quality.
-
STG: regular climbing
LTG: Font 7anything
M: Mum visiting so off work till Thurs. Came into Leeds, pottered about. Discovered that Clem (6 weeks) had caught chickenpox off his sister.
T: Went 10-pin bowling, beat 2 65+ year olds and a 3-year old girl. Still got it. Went to The Lab afterwards but Una wasn't keen to climb (they've taken off a load of the lower / bigger holds in the kid's section, rendering it largely impossible for her to get on the wall sadly). On theplus side, my Mum kept her busy while I did an intense hour of running around doing as much as I could and powering out quickly.
W: Nowt much.
T: Nowt.
F: Gym on lunch. More of the programme I've been following, plus a couple of 100kg deadlift singles and a complete failure at getting 120kg off the deck.
S: Stuck indoors tending to chickenpox-y baby. Did YouTube "yoga for climbers" while he had a kip. Found it quite tough. Even found time to play a bit of XBox Fifa but I still can't bloody score!
S: Nowt. Mother's Day stuff.
Another bad week for family health - as one gets over chickenpox the other gets it.
-
M - Lunch: Autobelays, recovery (about 10 in total up to 6c)
T - The Tor. 4 degrees. I was useless (particularly achey left lat). Couldn't do start of S/band nor P/humps. Dave did Influx.
W - Lunch: AeroCap. LI Approx 5 x yellow 6cs, 4 x black 6b+s, 3 x 6bs.
T - Flew to Spain for family do
F - Checked out the boulders at Olta (like Font, but the antithesis in every which way)
S -
S - PM. Tried to do a F/board sess but lat so stiff couldn't do a pull up. 5k run instead (first for 2 wks). Promising.
Totally rubbish sess on Tues (no strength, no power), maybe still tired from the previous Sunday? Compounded by BSMA-induced left-lat stiffness.
Managed not to indulge too much on family w/w in Spain.
Need to do less enduro now and focus more on power and AeroPow.
Tentatively psyched that I could run 'properly' on Sunday pm with minimal tendon pain.
On the subject of colds, I have just got my third (?) of the winter. Never used to get em at all.
-
M: Lunch -
1 x 10 Bicep Curls (20kg bar)
2 x 5 reps of IYT's (4kg)
2 x 10 Press-ups
2 x (5 x 5s) L-Hangs
4 x 20s Superman
3 x 10 Inverted rows
T:Lunch -
3 x 5 reps of IYT's (4kg)
3 x 10 Press-ups
3 x 10 Shoulder rotations (4kg)
2 x (5 x 5s) L-Hangs
Eve: Pantymwyn - Almost went indoors due to apocalyptic forecast, risked it anyway, went out and didn't actually rain at all... Warmed up with a few reps on Under the Gate (6B+), First go on Panty's and I got to the last hold, then faffed for ages trying to sort my feet out and couldn't match... fell off, couldn't believe it! Had 5 mins rest then I did it and it felt easy which was nice! Worked the sit start moves and managed to do them, keen to get back for the full thing.
https://vimeo.com/209493379
W:Lunch -
2 x 5 reps of IYT's (6kg)
2 x 10 Tricep Curls (10kg)
2 x 10 Press-ups
2 x (5 x 5s) L-Hangs
3 x 10 Inverted Rows
3 x 10 Eccentric wrist curls (palms up, both arms)
T: Lunch -
3 x 5 reps of IYT's face down (4kg)
3 x 10 Press-ups
3 x (5 x 5s) L-Hangs
3 x 10 Inverted Rows
3 x 10 Shoulder rotations (4kg)
Eve: Pantymwyn - Seepage had took over. Worked the moves on Panty's Sit Start (7B). Did all the moves and managed to get 3 moves into the original. Despite the wetness this was pretty close to doing the full thing. Psyched to finish it off.
F: Lunch -
3 x 5 reps of IYT's face down (4kg)
3 x 10 Press-ups
3 x (5 x 5s) L-Hangs
3 x 10 Inverted Rows
3 x 10 Shoulder rotations (4kg)
S: Rest
S: Porth Ysgo - First time back in a long time, awesome weather but way to hot to do anything hard. Popcorn Party and ISM Sit were in the sun which were the main 2 I wanted to do.
Did a few easy problems to warm up and a 6B. Had a few goes on Brian Spray hit the edge a few times but left hand was too greasy. Moved on to find some shade, Did Panton's "Watch me Jumpstart" (7A) after a few goes, really techy with a cool insecure slap move. Moved on to try relatively new problem "Knee Deep" (7A+). After many attempts I got really close to doing it but my skin had give up.
-
(particularly achey left lat)
I get what feels like a Lat pain but from all the massage I've been having I think it's actually one of the smaller muscles in there that's prone to knotting up, possibly Serratus Anterior or Terres Major. They can both be very tender, worth getting a foam roller or tennis ball into the sore spot up against a wall to try and free it up a bit. Plus stretch it out loads, I'm finding doing lat/side stretches really beneficial after workouts.
-
Thanks Shark - although 8pm on a sunday night is a bit early to call the end of the week for me!
M - Foot-on campusing - first attempt at doing something other than fiingerboarding without affecting knee recovery. Good, but the wall only has resin holds that wore holes in my fingers. Need to work out timings.. Using "The Pretender" on an mp3 player for about 4 minutes of climbing time is fun but will be difficult to adapt.
T - Knee Physio: indoor bike, press and compex
W - nuttin.
T - Early morning fingerboard, one set of BM 5c routine
Afternoon knee physio - as Tuesday but with weights intro at the end
F - nothing
S - nothing
S - Very gentle real bike ride in the sun then evening fingerboard session, 2 sets of BM 5c. All OK apart from crimping. I find it really hard to half- or full-crimp on the Beastmaker's rounded edges. Playing with a resin board at the wall which has Progression style small holds I find it a lot easier. Next week I'll try a full session on one of these boards and see if I'm actually weak on crimps (hard to believe, but possible due to the amount of open-handed indoor climbing I've been doing for the last few years), or if I'm just incapable of using holds in ways that feel unnatural for me.
Question for habitual fingerboard users... How do you decide when to change routines to make things harder? Do you repeat routines until you can comfortabley do all the reps, or aim to be failing on the last 1 or 2 reps??
-
(particularly achey left lat)
I get what feels like a Lat pain but from all the massage I've been having I think it's actually one of the smaller muscles in there that's prone to knotting up, possibly Serratus Anterior or Terres Major. They can both be very tender, worth getting a foam roller or tennis ball into the sore spot up against a wall to try and free it up a bit. Plus stretch it out loads, I'm finding doing lat/side stretches really beneficial after workouts.
Good knowledge. I will raid the missus' spiky ball collection. I did it on back street mime artist I think and given the nature of the moves on that, it could well be that I've pulled something 'weird' as the moves on that are non-conventional...
-
Question for habitual fingerboard users... How do you decide when to change routines to make things harder? Do you repeat routines until you can comfortabley do all the reps, or aim to be failing on the last 1 or 2 reps??
If you can comfortably do all the reps than you can't be having to try that hard - hence make it harder.
-
I have a variety pack of spikey balls but have come to the conclusion that a 50p decathlon tennis ball works better.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
-
S: Early hit at Curbar, did Early Doors:
https://vimeo.com/210151652
I did this last Sunday thinking it was Gorilla Warfare. After checking the guide, I can happily admit that I was mistaken and will take the 7A+ tick (because what I did didn't feel 7A either!)
-
Monday turbo 20 minute: power; run 27 minutes
Tuesday turbo 20 minute; foundry aerocap, arms not recovered from Sunday
Wednesday turbo 20 minute; foundry aero power (?)
Thursday turbo 20 minute; foundry aero something
Friday turbo 20 minute: cadence; run 29 minutes
Saturday turbo 20 minute cadence; foundry, repeaters 5x 5on, 5off; aero something 20-25 minute run in the evening
Sunday yoga and core; foundry aero something; lovely afternoon walk around Burbage.
Can anybody tell me roughly what energy system 70-80 move blocks, rest time = roughly 1.5 x work time would equate to? It's not exactly like it matters, as im not on a strict plan, just interested. O, the intensity is 1-2 grades below current limit.
-
Hello everyone, going to get back into this I reckon.
Currently got tendinitis in elbow and shoulder and being ruined by childcare and sleep deprivation. But somehow against all odds I've recently got the mojo back.
Plan (made Tuesday afternoon): 4x rehab per week, 3x fingerboard max hangs. Stop eating chocolate and bread. Skip breakfast thru week. I'm calling this the Minimal Training Plan and will diarise here just how effective it is.
Goal: 7B lime, 40kg max hangs on 14mm, get back to fighting weight.
M-rehab
T-brief session on Zippy's Traverse @Plantation. It should go.
BM1k - 10s +33kg on bottom 20mm rung. Completed 4/7 sets.
W-rehab
T-BM1k - 10s +33kg on bottom 20mm rung. Completed 7/7 sets.
F-rehab
S-rehab
S-quick family session at pock block / cobra. Couldn't remember how to do the SDS 7A+ thing.
BM1k - 10s +33kg on bottom 20mm rung. Completed 7/7 sets.
Bread watch: one absent minded children's crust.
Chocolate watch: none. Even took the flake out of an ice cream.
Weight: fighting + 8kgs
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
I have been campusing and deadhanging in arelitivly organised manner for two and a half weeks and can hang bottom bm1k edges with 30kg fed for 10secs. Need to take off 12 kg to hang the bottom edge on the 2k with one hand and can't lock off one armed on a bar. Yet can pretty consistently do 7A+ 7B in a session on moonboard and outside.
Lots on here seem to be doing much harder things on beastmakers but targeting 7A/B problems. Surely if you can one arm hang the bottom rung of bm2k without assistance you can boulder 8A ish.
I am questioning this as I am still not a total believer in hangs and struggle to stay focused on them long enough to see if they work. Have managed to do 6 sessions now and seeing hang improvements. Just hoping it transfers to the rock.
-
I have been campusing and deadhanging in arelitivly organised manner for two and a half weeks and can hang bottom bm1k edges with 30kg fed for 10secs. Need to take off 12 kg to hang the bottom edge on the 2k with one hand
Had a double take there. Presumably you did mean have 12kg of pulley weight assistance rather than take 12kg off the 30kg (ie 18kg) to hang one-handed.
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
Amen to that. I'm out of shape at the minute but can pull some ok max hang numbers on the fingerboard, (+45kg at 62kg bw on 14mm) relative to my grade (three 7Bs in a lifetime) but:
1. I am truly a shit climber with close to no technique or skill or flexibility.
2. My deadhang form *was* pretty shit - shoulders unengaged and stuff so maybe my numbers don't count. Certainly, one arm strength was lacking because of this.
Personal experience, the FB-grit carry over is very poor compared to FB-lime.
Surely if you can one arm hang the bottom rung of bm2k without assistance you can boulder 8A ish.
Yes that is the standard according to Tom Randall. He says the correlation is 100-110% of BW for 8A.
-
I wouldn't be that surprised these days if there's a greater proportion of climbers who's on paper strength outstrips their achievements on rock. Recent fashion for very structured training probably impact on this as much as anything - people are getting stronger, but are we getting better? Increasing popularity of training plans where the metric for success (i.e. justification of having paid for the plan) is presumably something like X moves on a lattice board or Y seconds on a branded deadhang rung probably aren't helping application any.
Also is the fact that in some circles doing a proper warmup circuit is seemingly going out of fashion impacting upon application? There seems to be an increasing number of people who rock up to the crag to try their project and would warmup by deadhanging a fingerboard clipped to the first bolt or in a tree rather than do any easier problems, and hence are missing out on a whole range of real-rock application that is honed by doing a progressive warmup on problems - basically just general rock time (AND probably aren't getting a proper full body warmup). I know I personally have taken this too far in the past by doing everything I've ever done at the crag before trying anything new, but still. That fingerboard type of approach would have been unheard of even ten years ago.
-
I have been campusing and deadhanging in arelitivly organised manner for two and a half weeks and can hang bottom bm1k edges with 30kg fed for 10secs. Need to take off 12 kg to hang the bottom edge on the 2k with one hand
Had a double take there. Presumably you did mean have 12kg of pulley weight assistance rather than take 12kg off the 30kg (ie 18kg) to hang one-handed.
Yes.
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
So am i!
But i've just checked my log book and in the last 3 years i've had 4 half days out bouldering. I've tried something harder than 7A six times in my entire climbing career.
I live in London and don't get out regularly, so i like to try stuff that i can do in a quick session as its unlikely i'll get back to the same crag any time soon. Up till now its mainly been sport climbing, but i've sworn off routes for the rest of the year to put my energy into bouldering harder, so only time will tell if i can turn it into something usable on the rock. Doubt that'll be 8A like you suggest, but I'll see how it pans out.
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
Amen to that. I'm out of shape at the minute but can pull some ok max hang numbers on the fingerboard, (+45kg at 62kg bw on 14mm) relative to my grade (three 7Bs in a lifetime) but:
1. I am truly a shit climber with close to no technique or skill or flexibility.
2. My deadhang form *was* pretty shit - shoulders unengaged and stuff so maybe my numbers don't count. Certainly, one arm strength was lacking because of this.
Personal experience, the FB-grit carry over is very poor compared to FB-lime.
You must be doing something really wrong. Lime 7Bs are generally about finger strength. Technique is pretty secondary.
-
You must be doing something really wrong.
You wouldn't be the first person to reckon that.
I only really climbed on lime for the first time last year and managed three 7Bs, only one of which took more than a session. Grit 7A could still feel quite heinous tho even then.
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
Deadhang strength also doesn't measure other aspects of applied real climbing finger strength related to rate of force development, contact strength and varied hold types. These things are typically gained by actually climbing. Its not solely a case of shit technique and low aspirations.
-
Power Club
Mon - quick BM test, frontal one arm L-sit on incut rung + 10 kg, brilliant. Found out that using a dumbbell is easier than using a weightvest. A matter of balance and mobility surely. 30/30 and 1/1 x 5, completed both. Chuffed. Bag 1/1 x 6, brutal. Elbow sore but not tragic.
Tue - rest.
Wed - quick boxing bag session. Very tired.
Thu - climbing class. Elbow sore.
Fri - deadlift 68 kg x 10, 12, 15, 20. Explosive pull ups 4 x 2. Boxing bag, combinations and Tabata. Brilliant and brutal session.
Sat - clean and press 5 x 5 41 kg. Snatch 5 x 4 41 kg (from hang, full snatch). Boxing bag. Brilliant.
Sun - rest.
-
S: Lovely day, first dry and non-freezing morning out on the bike, the Isle is calling to you nibs...
Lovely. Absolutely lovely. Can't wait.
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
Deadhang strength also doesn't measure other aspects of applied real climbing finger strength related to rate of force development, contact strength and varied hold types. These things are typically gained by actually climbing. Its not solely a case of shit technique and low aspirations.
You have already got to technical for me. Does deadhanging improve all of the other things or just not measure them. If it does not improve them all and only makes you better at hanging off wood what advantage is there to bouldering.
I am just trying to get rid of doubts i have about whether i should carry on doing it as its so boring. I am obviously totally shit at it compared to most on here so my rational is that if i get much better at it my climbing will improve.
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
I have been campusing and deadhanging in arelitivly organised manner for two and a half weeks and can hang bottom bm1k edges with 30kg fed for 10secs. Need to take off 12 kg to hang the bottom edge on the 2k with one hand and can't lock off one armed on a bar. Yet can pretty consistently do 7A+ 7B in a session on moonboard and outside.
Lots on here seem to be doing much harder things on beastmakers but targeting 7A/B problems. Surely if you can one arm hang the bottom rung of bm2k without assistance you can boulder 8A ish.
I am questioning this as I am still not a total believer in hangs and struggle to stay focused on them long enough to see if they work. Have managed to do 6 sessions now and seeing hang improvements. Just hoping it transfers to the rock.
Fortunately for you, the better you are at climbing, the more impact your deadhanging is likely to have on your climbing - if you keep it up.
As an aside, if I could do 7B in a session i'd personally be aiming a hell of a lot harder than 7B in a session outdoors!
-
I am constantly amazed by the disparity between what people can deadhang and the grades they are doing/targeting.
Deadhang strength also doesn't measure other aspects of applied real climbing finger strength related to rate of force development, contact strength and varied hold types. These things are typically gained by actually climbing. Its not solely a case of shit technique and low aspirations.
You have already got to technical for me. Does deadhanging improve all of the other things or just not measure them. If it does not improve them all and only makes you better at hanging off wood what advantage is there to bouldering.
I am just trying to get rid of doubts i have about whether i should carry on doing it as its so boring. I am obviously totally shit at it compared to most on here so my rational is that if i get much better at it my climbing will improve.
It is still an important aspect of finger strength and the most effective way to develop finger strength. I think of it as both useful in its own right as a form of usable finger strength and the foundation work to develop other forms usable finger strength. But that is guesswork.
-
Fortunately for you, the better you are at climbing, the more impact your deadhanging is likely to have on your climbing - if you keep it up.
As an aside, if I could do 7B in a session i'd personally be aiming a hell of a lot harder than 7B in a session outdoors!
[/quote]
I am.
Only issue is getting regular time to focus on something as family stuff gets in the way so its easier to just get fast ticks done. Slowly running out locally though and once the kids footy and rugby seasons finish i will have more time, hence the training now.
-
It is still an important aspect of finger strength and the most effective way to develop finger strength. I think of it as both useful in its own right as a form of usable finger strength and the foundation work to develop other forms usable finger strength. But that is guesswork.
[/quote]
That sounds like gobblygook and you finish off by saying its guesswork.
Do you really think deadhanging has improved your ability to pull on smaller holds? You have done a lot in the past so must have some hard and fast results.
-
Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).
-
Yes that is the standard according to Tom Randall. He says the correlation is 100-110% of BW for 8A.
Unless you're shit ;) ;D :P etc
This was something I was musing about a while back. Folk, me included, tend to assume they need more strength, flexibility, endurance, whatever, all the time but how many actually come to the conclusion that they have all the attributes but what if they're just not very good at rock climbing.
-
I am just trying to get rid of doubts i have about whether i should carry on doing it as its so boring.
I am often surprised by how people find fingerboarding boring. It is genuinely one of my most favourite things and in my house it basically just means watching telly while hanging off a bit of wood for a few seconds every three minutes.
In terms of investment of time, family disruption and effort it is ridonculously simple and efficient.
Other aspects of training, including what stretches to do and the family man's endless crux of being able to actually go climbing, are much more complicated and difficult IME.
-
Folk, me included, tend to assume they need more strength, flexibility, endurance, whatever, all the time but how many actually come to the conclusion that they have all the attributes but what if they're just not very good at rock climbing.
That is almost the very definition of being shit. You could be literally the strongest fittest and most flexible person in the world but there are some problems if you can't work out how it goes you have no chance.
Thank god for Vimeo beta videos!
-
M: BBC Hard Bouldering, no problems with shoulders.
Pull ups - 10 body weight; 5 +25Kg; 4 +27.5k; 4 +30k; 3 +30k
T: hit circuit at home (25 situp/20 knee-nose/20 pressup/ 1:15s Kettlebell swing) 3.5 sets
W: BBC bouldering- orange circuit v3-5.
Th: none
F: Beautiful Day - Roaches still can't link Pink wall eliminate together, next time.
Sa: Another beautiful day . Dinbren- warm up then tried 'do walls have ears' thinking it would be a quick tick,, it wasn't . No surprise PE is lacking somewhat went home feeling very tired.
-
Its utterly boring. 10 secs effort every 3-5 mins??
I do a 10 sec hang on the 3 mins which is about as low a rest period as i have seen recommended for max hangs. With warm up and a set of 10 hangs it takes 45 mins. I could do a lot of boulder problems on the board in 45 mins.
I am not very good at sitting about so find the 3 mins rest pretty hard to stick to.
-
Goals:
Good winter bouldering season,
8A (Hunters Roof? Full Power?)and 8b by June
In shape for SA in summer.
Body Audit: Middle RH finger bit tender but nothing major
Sleep: OK.
69kg.
M: TCA, OK session, long problems with 90s rests as that's what Ro was doing. Also, since she was doing assisted hangs, had a go: Lattice smaller edge: 10kg assistance L arm, 13.75kg assistance R arm (~7hrs, 2dk)
T: TCA, A-non Comp, managed to flash all but one, slab took 4 goes. Pleased to fight through the 45 for the flash, prob would have dropped off normally. Then Moonboard, felt strong and really chuffed to finish the 7C (Sensei) I'd done the moves on last week. 1-4-7 leading left, nowhere near leading right. (~7hrs, 1dk)
W: Nothing (~6hrs, 3dk)
T: Bloc, fairly unproductive session but tried a few hard purples and whites, managed some moves. (~7hrs, 1dk)
F: Nothing (~7.5hrs, 3dk)
S: Roaches, underestimated warmth but fun day, Started at the Clouds, repeated Trust and Thrust, grovelled up Ugly Brother, had great time on Persistence and Icarus upstart, less so on Pinnacle of Human Achievement... Then over to Lower Tier, finally put Inertia Reel to bed then ripped chunk out of my finger going wrong handed on Mushin. (~6.5hrs, 2dk)
S: Gardoms, pleased to do Wishbone in a couple of tries, arse dragging lowball but fun moves. Failed due to scrittle (again) on Bens Bulge, repeated Marks Roof while mates were trying it, Failed dismally again on Full power, but repeated SotG a couple of times while working it (~7hrs, 2dk)
Proper lush weekend, despite the lack of significant ticks. Great to get some vit D.
-
Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers,
The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun
I benchmarked myself on a few deadhangs at the start of Feb and, in terms of power & strength training, have been just bouldering twice a week since. Used the Moonboard, my own board and been outside a bit recently. Either this week or early next week I'll retest and see whether I've made any gains, be very disappointed if I haven't.
-
I am not very good at sitting about so find the 3 mins rest pretty hard to stick to.
But surely if you were limit bouldering you'd be sat around for a similar amount of time between attempts?
-
Probably but the climbing bit lasts longer and is a lot more fun.
-
Its utterly boring. 10 secs effort every 3-5 minutes??
Aye, that is the training protocol. The rest time (and the training time) involves watching whatever netflix series/film is on rotation that week. It's really not very boring to me.
-
It's basically as boring/interesting as whatever's on the TV is in that case, which is guaranteed to be way more boring than going climbing... I'm not saying it's not fun, just way less fun than climbing.
I always think that strength training, whether bouldering or fingerboarding or campusing, is way less fun that power endurance or stamina training too, simply because you don't get to do as much climbing and you don't get to beat yourself up as much. Guess that's partly why most of my goals are long things - I want an excuse to do loads of fitness training!
-
It is still an important aspect of finger strength and the most effective way to develop finger strength. I think of it as both useful in its own right as a form of usable finger strength and the foundation work to develop other forms usable finger strength. But that is guesswork.
That sounds like gobblygook and you finish off by saying its guesswork.
Do you really think deadhanging has improved your ability to pull on smaller holds? You have done a lot in the past so must have some hard and fast results.
Its guesswork because I have also upped the amount of bouldering that I have done as well. My gut feeling is that deadhanging has enabled me to be at least pull on smaller holds to try harder problems whilst actually being at least able to try those harder problems has helped the other gobblydook forms of finger strength such as applying max force pulling off holds, applying contact force when hitting holds and using varied grip positions you encounter outside which aren't specifically developed when deadhanging
-
Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).
This is what concerns me. You read everywhere that dead hanging is the best form of training for finger strength. Loads of people have done it and improved there deadhang ability but say little about if it transferred well to climbing. You nearly did but then added the word probably.
I have never been a true believer but thought maybe its just because i dabbled so i set myself the target of doing 4 weeks of it as my primary exercise to see what happens. 2 weeks in and my motivation is waning (probably due to it being really nice outside) and then i see that people on here who seem to do a fair bit of it in a very structured manner are way better at it than me but boulder much worse. And the person who seems the strongest boulders on a moonboard all the time.
Hence i was looking for some encouraging improvement stats from someone.
-
I wouldn't take too much away from comparing bouldering grades of people on here who fingerboard. Bouldering may not be a priority - it isn't for me.
I can one-arm hang the BM bottom middle slot with 100% body weight and do OK on max hangs - up to 5 x 28kg for 10secs on a 20mm edge, increasing every week for last 5 or so weeks. In theory I've got the finger strength to boulder font 8A but I've never pulled onto a font 8A in my life despite begin pretty confident that if I focused some time on doing one I would. I'm just not that interested in spending my limited time bouldering.
I don't think there's any doubt that hanging from a small wooden edge gets your fingers stronger - for that particular hold size, angle and grip type. As you say, it's less obvious how well that strength translates to actual results on rock. I think a useful analogy is when they talk about footballers having done loads of work on the training ground but not having that 'match sharpness' / match fitness'. Clearly it's anecdotal, but it's been talked about since the year dot by everyone in football, so there's some effect worth considering. Climbing's the same - you can get strong as fuck on edges, or fit as fuck on lattice boards, but without getting 'match sharpness' on rock it's not going to translate perfectly.
The point for most who train intelligently is they have limited time. If they didn't have limited time then real climbing is the best way to get good at real climbing. But it's inefficient time-wise.
-
I can one-arm hang the BM bottom middle slot with 100% body weight and do OK on max hangs - up to 5 x 28kg for 10secs on a 20mm edge,
Is this unusual do you reckon? If you can one arm 100% why can't you two arm c200%?
Scores of +30kg/-12kg seem much more equal depending on bodyweight. At 60kg they would mean 48kg one arm and 90kg two arm - so about equal per arm. At higher bw they are obvs less equal.
-
The point for most who train intelligently is they have limited time. If they didn't have limited time then real climbing is the best way to get good at real climbing. But it's inefficient time-wise.
Is this not contrary to what you read now. I wanted to deadhang as people keep saying its the best way to get stronger fingers not because i dont have time to go on a board. I personally think you can get a really good session in an hour on a board, similar to hangs.
Your one hang strength is amazing compared to your two. How heavy are you? My weight maybe an issue as i am 82kg so pretty much one arm hanging 70kg on BM2K rung. But everything you read is about percentages of weight not kg which makes sense.
-
I'm like you gav, I can't 1 arm hang the BM slot and endlessly wonder how people can hang it with stacks of weight added yet not be climbing about 9b. I've often pondered whether gains are better from bouldering or hanging and never reached much conclusion
-
I've had similar thoughts in the past gme as I am very anti-fingerboard due to the dullness and most of the people I know who love deadhanging but aren't bouldering hard aren't great boulderers (this doesn't apply to you conor). No explanation for it except they probably don't boulder enough, they don't move like boulderers, I can tell straight away they are route climbers primarily. They're usually quite static and slow, they're movement is just not quite as fluid.
I also know very strong boulderers who also swear by fingerboarding and are bouldering hard, because they are good boulderers too. Maybe I'm imagining it all..
I've been fingerboarding for the last few months after always putting it off before and I can say that my fingers are feeling much stronger. I'm not necessarily climbing any harder but I feel much happier on crimps, whereas before my joints would feel achy and strained on the holds, they now feel solid and secure. For that feeling alone I'm going to continue as I've previously suffered badly with finger injuries.
-
I always think that strength training, whether bouldering or fingerboarding or campusing, is way less fun that power endurance or stamina training too, simply because you don't get to do as much climbing and you don't get to beat yourself up as much. Guess that's partly why most of my goals are long things - I want an excuse to do loads of fitness training!
I thought it was because you are weak. ;)
-
All the tw@ts instagraming themselves deadhanging with a bunch of weight in the other hand seem to be 50 kilo midgets/kids/man-boys. Just sayin. I'd like to see someone 80kg holding 40kg in one hand. Maybe Polish Dave?!
-
I'm like you gav, I can't 1 arm hang the BM slot and endlessly wonder how people can hang it with stacks of weight added yet not be climbing about 9b. I've often pondered whether gains are better from bouldering or hanging and never reached much conclusion
I think you need to do both.
-
Your one hang strength is amazing compared to your two. How heavy are you? My weight maybe an issue as i am 82kg so pretty much one arm hanging 70kg on BM2K rung. But everything you read is about percentages of weight not kg which makes sense.
I should have made it clearer - that isn't my max hang (maybe me using the words 'max hang' confused things..). I've being increasing my hangs by 2kg every week for the last 7 weeks or so and I'm currently at 28kg. I don't need to rush it because my fingers are strong enough anyway, so it's more just maintenance for me at the mo, and gradually getting toward a point where I plateau. I'm guessing that will happen at around 35-40kg..
Oh and I'm 68kg currently. Will be 63-65kg when redpointing.
-
Shoulder tweaky
M - Yellow circuit rocher des potets, long time since I did a whole circuit, so much fun.
T/W - Nothing
Th - Indoors, big new set, lots of volume
F- rest
Sa/Su - Family stuff, managed one pull up without shoulder hurting too much...more easy circuiting for me.
-
STG: "Benchmark" moonboard 6B+
MTG (Spring 2017): Redpoint 7b
LTG (<= 5 years): Redpoint 8a before I hit 60.
M: 40 minutes stretching/mobility
T: Boulderwelt with M jnr. Weak session, feeling tired
W: Thought about doing some kettlebell work for the shoulders, but in view of weak & tired in my last few training sessions, and having checked my diary and seen that I've only taken a couple of actual rest days in the last fortnight. Took another one.
T: Max hangs.
F: Moonboard. Nothing topped. Need to work on finishes; I have several projects on which I can consistently do al but the last move.
S:
S: Climbing! Yay. Less yay however: every bloody spring the same. Petrified two feet above the bolt; forgotten how to trust feet on anything that isn't a fluorescent blob. It'll come back though, just like every other year. Idyllic location though: Bischofsbucht. The Danube flows through a bit of a gorge with impressive crags on both sides and the only motorised sound is the tourist boats. Most of the good looking routes are 40 metre endurance fests though, will have to get fit before I go back.
-
Oh, and my week of climbing in the Peak!
Mon: Crap weather in the morning so went to the Works. Walked out into bright sun, so went to the Plantation and struggled my way up the Green Traverse and Zippy's Traverse. Good day.
Tues: Drove to Rivelin. Looked at Master Kush. Drove to Burbage. Should have done The Nose but was a bit nervous of the top out. After that, wandered down to Burbage North and Remergence and the One (hard!) and Two Sloper eliminates on said buttress, then came close on Terrace and Jason's Roof and finished the day by almost flashing Mermaid (so good). Great day.
Wed: Collected the wife from Sheffield station after spending all morning drinking coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage. Rest day after 3 days on.
Thurs: Almscliff. Great session. Flashed Demon Wall Roof and did Crusis (committing heel hook if you're alone!) in a few goes. Tried the Keel a lot but didn't seal the deal. Met some really friendly locals. Had a really good dinner at The York in Sheffield. Fantastic day out.
Fri: Rowtor. Nice little crag. Flashed Blood Falls and the spent some time failing on Domes and then was too tired to finish off Yoghurt Hypnotist after working it alone.
Sat: Dragged to wife around to help me finish up business - Rowtor for Yoghurt Hypnotist (so good) and Burbage West for the The Nose (also so good). Great end to the trip. Then a short session at The Works after dropping off my new mats and seeing how good the murple circuit looked. Psyched.
Sun: Woke up insanely early to walk up Mam Tor so the wife could photograph the sunrise. Froze my ass off. Drove to London. 8.5km run. I hate running.
-
coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage.
Better than Longlands/Outside?
-
Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).
This is what concerns me. You read everywhere that dead hanging is the best form of training for finger strength. Loads of people have done it and improved there deadhang ability but say little about if it transferred well to climbing.
I deadhanged (deadhung?) mainly 2 finger max hangs last winter and it definitely was a huge factor in doing hitchikers RH SS last spring bank, in fact I mainly did it for that problem, plus I knew my 2-finger strength was poor and was hoping for some crossover into general openhanding. So yeah I think for me it transferred to climbing - I got up that problem and I was generally better openhanded. BUT I was doing it to specifically target a known weakness, AND addressing a grip type/angle I otherwise don't hit very hard with schoolroom board climbing. And I was doing it on nights I couldn't get out, never instead of climbing/board session.
I would general refute the notion that fingerboarding is the most effective way to train finger strength though. Give me two twins, one does 9 hours of fingerboarding a week, and the other does 9 hours of steep savage board climbing per week, and I'd wager the one doing the steep savage board climbing would be the one with the stronger fingers at the end, or at least the one who was most likely to be able to apply any finger strength gains into actual ascents.
-
I view deadhanging as supplementary to board climbing. I would never sacrifice the board sessions for it .
-
coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage.
Better than Longlands/Outside?
For coffee? Infinitely. If you want chips and a mug of hot tea, go to outside; for a flat white and biscotti, go to the deli!
-
Gav - I'm in about the exact place you are. I weigh about the same, and similar finger strength now after FB. I did loads of bouldering, loads of climbing, loads of steep board work, and none of them got my fingers stronger like deadhanging. I'm 100% convinced that for me they jumped me from a max of 7C+ to 8A+. Now if I can drop my weight a touch, I may be able to look at 8B max... I've been climbing 22 years, and spent so much time doing new and different stuff, that I have relatively good skills, but my fingers just had never gotten the strength. That's me though, and not everyone. sounds like you're in a similar spot though.
-
coffee at Coleman's Deli in Hathersage.
Better than Longlands/Outside?
For coffee? Infinitely. If you want chips and a mug of hot tea, go to outside; for a flat white and biscotti, go to the deli!
What he said!
-
I view deadhanging as supplementary to board climbing. I would never sacrifice the board sessions for it .
Deadhanging has the significant advantage that it's essentially quite dull, so if you feel a niggle in fingers etc it's very likely that you'll bag it off immediately, unlike board climbing, where it's all too easy to get excited about ticking a problem and knacker something. I agree that board climbing will be far more effective for most people, but not if they snap something in the process.
-
I deadhanged (deadhung?) mainly 2 finger max hangs last winter and it definitely was a huge factor in doing hitchikers RH SS last spring bank, in fact I mainly did it for that problem, plus I knew my 2-finger strength was poor and was hoping for some crossover into general openhanding. So yeah I think for me it transferred to climbing - I got up that problem and I was generally better openhanded. BUT I was doing it to specifically target a known weakness, AND addressing a grip type/angle I otherwise don't hit very hard with schoolroom board climbing. And I was doing it on nights I couldn't get out, never instead of climbing/board session.
I would general refute the notion that fingerboarding is the most effective way to train finger strength though. Give me two twins, one does 9 hours of fingerboarding a week, and the other does 9 hours of steep savage board climbing per week, and I'd wager the one doing the steep savage board climbing would be the one with the stronger fingers at the end, or at least the one who was most likely to be able to apply any finger strength gains into actual ascents.
I'd broadly agree with this. I have seen finger based feats improvement with fingerboarding but nontargeted translation to climbing appears less directly proportional in my experience. Essentially i have fingerboarded to address a specific target based on a climbing project. Or when i have no practical alternative option, the 'better than nowt' principle.
-
First of two weeks in Fontainebleau. I usually get shut down, so my aims were simply to try lots of classics and hopefully do a first of the grade in the forest (7C). So far I've succeeded in trying lots of classics and have bagged a few 7Cs so yyfy.
Selected highlights include:
L'Aerodynamite 7B+. El Poussah 7A/+, matched sloper, heel accidentally popped off, campused to jug mid swing (best move and problem I've done in ages). Alta 7C. Noir Desir 7C, been high on my list of must do's for a long time. Did crux 3rd go and the whole thing on 7th. Surprise tick and surprised it felt so fine. La Baleine 7A.
Had a play on Tigre Et Dragon 8A, which is one of the most amazing problems I have ever seen. It also felt doable (but not this trip as I'd rather not spend days on one problem).
-
Gav - I'm in about the exact place you are. I weigh about the same, and similar finger strength now after FB. I did loads of bouldering, loads of climbing, loads of steep board work, and none of them got my fingers stronger like deadhanging. I'm 100% convinced that for me they jumped me from a max of 7C+ to 8A+. Now if I can drop my weight a touch, I may be able to look at 8B max... I've been climbing 22 years, and spent so much time doing new and different stuff, that I have relatively good skills, but my fingers just had never gotten the strength. That's me though, and not everyone. sounds like you're in a similar spot though.
Thanks. This does sound pretty similar. My fingers have always been my weak link, especially crimping. My hangs have been very much focused on crimping to try to improve it and i am getting improvements in hangs. Due to time constraints ( and the fact that being nearly 50 means i need more rest) i didnt have the option of boards and hangs i had to pick one of them so having heard and read so much about hangs i thought i would try something different.
Your the 1st person who has come back who seems to really believe they made a big difference.
It was reading how good at hanging really average boulders were that started putting doubts in my head but maybe that is them not focusing on there weaknesses.
-
Gav - I think there are different ways to target fingers, people just find the fingerboard time-efficient and measurable? Also, you can force grip types which is not so easy bouldering on a board if, for example, you naturally favour The Crimp. Personally my deadhanging strength is still relatively woeful compared to the grade I climb. I target exercises where I hope to get most benefit, so favour deadhanging (where I have made gains) over campussing, for example. Have those gains translated into grades and ability to pull on smaller holds on limestone? Probably. Though I'm not sure I'd bother with deadhanging if I had more time. The Motherboard (and my homeboard) are basically dynamic deadhanging and are more fun (though more 'risky' injury wise).
This is what concerns me. You read everywhere that dead hanging is the best form of training for finger strength. Loads of people have done it and improved there deadhang ability but say little about if it transferred well to climbing.
I deadhanged (deadhung?) mainly 2 finger max hangs last winter and it definitely was a huge factor in doing hitchikers RH SS last spring bank, in fact I mainly did it for that problem, plus I knew my 2-finger strength was poor and was hoping for some crossover into general openhanding. So yeah I think for me it transferred to climbing - I got up that problem and I was generally better openhanded. BUT I was doing it to specifically target a known weakness, AND addressing a grip type/angle I otherwise don't hit very hard with schoolroom board climbing. And I was doing it on nights I couldn't get out, never instead of climbing/board session.
My issue is the opposite in that i cant crimp. i never was that good at it. My hangs are all crimped to try to specifically improve that grip and stop open handing everything. I can hang the shallow 2 finger pockets on a BM1k with as much weight as crimping the two edges with 4 fingers.
Glad to hear you felt it improved. You will find out if it has to me by my level of incompetence at the school after easter when i am bouldering again.
-
Or u could just go lo carb, lose 5 kilos and get the same result ;) Go on, tell me I'm wrong :smirk:
-
You're wrong ;) At least the automatic equating of low-carb with low-calorie is wrong.
Gav - if you're after confirmation that it's worthwhile, I think it can be. After 10 years or so of no significant strength gains I think I got a fair chunk stronger by a phase of high-volume fingerboarding (anderson-style hangs), followed by a phase of high-intensity board bouldering.
The next season I tried to replace the fingerboarding with high-volume bouldering but saw no noticeable improvement. So for me it worked.
-
I can hang the shallow 2 finger pockets on a BM1k with as much weight as crimping the two edges with 4 fingers.
:o
The benefits of a kyloe-in apprenticeship?
-
Or u could just go lo carb, lose 5 kilos and get the same result ;) Go on, tell me I'm wrong :smirk:
Thats phase 3 of the plan. Its will be hard though unless the invent good zero carb beer.
-
I can hang the shallow 2 finger pockets on a BM1k with as much weight as crimping the two edges with 4 fingers.
:o
The benefits of a kyloe-in apprenticeship?
And living in Buoux for two years.
-
You're wrong ;) At least the automatic equating of low-carb with low-calorie is wrong.
Gav - if you're after confirmation that it's worthwhile, I think it can be. After 10 years or so of no significant strength gains I think I got a fair chunk stronger by a phase of high-volume fingerboarding (anderson-style hangs), followed by a phase of high-intensity board bouldering.
The next season I tried to replace the fingerboarding with high-volume bouldering but saw no noticeable improvement. So for me it worked.
Cheers. This is the type of evidence i was hoping to find. I am only focusing on hangs for 10-12 sessions following reading anderson brothers stuff as thats when they suggest the gains flatten out. Once thats done its back on the boards.
I am not following anderson high volume methods but more maisch style hangs after a short campus session to warm up. Feel pretty worked the day after so it feels like its doing something. Time will tell i guess but i will stick at it.
-
Weight dropped to 11st 1lb...
M: Doctors in the Am - then wall at Lunchtime - I think it went alright.. can't remember...
Tu: Work
We: Work
Thu: Curbar - as it was drying. Trackside wet - ended up warming up and playing on bad landing for a while. Eventually worked up to repeat Bad Lip - then worked some of the moves on la Muse... did OK - but not really anything like on form.
Fr: Up early - flight to Tenerife with our students.. all day travelling.
Sa: 15km walk - lots of up and down. Yoga for 30 min in the evening.
Su: More walking.....
I suspect my grit season is now over....
-
Gav - I'm in about the exact place you are. I weigh about the same, and similar finger strength now after FB. I did loads of bouldering, loads of climbing, loads of steep board work, and none of them got my fingers stronger like deadhanging. I'm 100% convinced that for me they jumped me from a max of 7C+ to 8A+. Now if I can drop my weight a touch, I may be able to look at 8B max... I've been climbing 22 years, and spent so much time doing new and different stuff, that I have relatively good skills, but my fingers just had never gotten the strength. That's me though, and not everyone. sounds like you're in a similar spot though.
Thanks. This does sound pretty similar. My fingers have always been my weak link, especially crimping. My hangs have been very much focused on crimping to try to improve it and i am getting improvements in hangs. Due to time constraints ( and the fact that being nearly 50 means i need more rest) i didnt have the option of boards and hangs i had to pick one of them so having heard and read so much about hangs i thought i would try something different.
Your the 1st person who has come back who seems to really believe they made a big difference.
It was reading how good at hanging really average boulders were that started putting doubts in my head but maybe that is them not focusing on there weaknesses.
I think so much of it is in an honest assessment of your weakest link relative to your goals. According to Tommy's lattice testing, at current weight (80kg), I'm about 15-20% below the average for my "grade". When I'm at "fighting weight" (about 74-75kg) I'm still about 7.5% below average for the grade. I was "below" average across almost every aspect, but finger strength was the worst. And that was after doing FBing and seeing significant gains.
As a 40yo, I hear ya on the needing rest and such, ad I'm sure it gets worse. Personally, The finger strength aspect for me is still so key, I continue to do at east 1 hang session a week as maintenance regardless of the current season/training aspect.
-
The more I read about heavier climbers and their lack of finger strength on a one arm hang test, the more I think it has less relevance to actual climbing than people think. I'm 84kg and would probably have to take 15-20% bw off, yet I've climbed multiple 7C+ and a few 8as. I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?
-
I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?
Said on Reddit that when he was in shape he could 1/2 crimp 10 second 18mm two hand with +140lbs @170lb bw. So not exactly light or weak.
Don't think he said one hand and doesn't look like he has a metric for one hand hang strength benchmark. Which is sort of interesting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/3sp11j/steve_maisch_ama/
-
The more I read about heavier climbers and their lack of finger strength on a one arm hang test, the more I think it has less relevance to actual climbing than people think. I'm 84kg and would probably have to take 15-20% bw off, yet I've climbed multiple 7C+ and a few 8as. I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?
I'm equally weak on a two arm hang test :)
IME, the biggest difference is that if you have good technique you can generally apply more weight to your feet. As a big climber, this can offset a part of the finger strength issues. In many respects heavier climbers have no choice but to learn to put more weight into their feet early on, whereas lighter climbers can cheat through a bit more (especially bouldering in gyms these days) and just pull. However, there is alot of body mechanics to learning to control foot cutting (1 or 2 foot cuts mid move), and sometimes heavier climbers need to learn this as they progress, whereas sometime the lighter stronger guys have it down already.
-
Taller climbers don't need to be as strong for a given grade, so as the heavier guys are probably also taller these things interact.
Also consider how people get/got strong fingers in the first place. At one extreme there's someone who goes climbing a lot and is talented but never does any fingerboards (the climber)....well if they have the exact same finger strength as someone who hangs a lot but climbs very little (the hanger)....it's obvious who would perform better on a rock.
And that's the weak/strong for the grade disparity in a nutshell. Doesn't mean the hanger doesn't climb harder grades than he would do without strong fingers, and also doesn't mean the climber wouldn't benefit from stronger fingers.
-
I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?
Steve is quiet tall but skinny and ripped, I'm 193cm and he was quiet a bit shorter than me when we met in Rocklands last year.
- sorry full time forum lurker until recently..
-
I'm 5'10", so not exactly tall.
-
The more I read about heavier climbers and their lack of finger strength on a one arm hang test, the more I think it has less relevance to actual climbing than people think. I'm 84kg and would probably have to take 15-20% bw off, yet I've climbed multiple 7C+ and a few 8as. I'd be interested to know what Steve Maisch can do as isn't he pretty big?
I always thought like you that its a lightweights trick. The stuff you see megos and others doing usually only totals around our bodyweight as they are all under 60kg to start with. I had something in my head that as the forearms are small muscles the ability to train them is probably more restricted than the large muscles used in say a deadlift so maybe the ability to progress was more limited.
However i just saw on beastmakers instagram that someone called Jan Gru did a 100kg total. 88kg bodyweight plus 12kg so its obviously possible. Just need to try harder i guess.
-
[/quote]
Thanks. This does sound pretty similar. My fingers have always been my weak link, especially crimping. My hangs have been very much focused on crimping to try to improve it and i am getting improvements in hangs. Due to time constraints ( and the fact that being nearly 50 means i need more rest) i didnt have the option of boards and hangs i had to pick one of them so having heard and read so much about hangs i thought i would try something different.
Your the 1st person who has come back who seems to really believe they made a big difference.
It was reading how good at hanging really average boulders were that started putting doubts in my head but maybe that is them not focusing on there weaknesses.
[/quote]
I think so much of it is in an honest assessment of your weakest link relative to your goals. According to Tommy's lattice testing, at current weight (80kg), I'm about 15-20% below the average for my "grade". When I'm at "fighting weight" (about 74-75kg) I'm still about 7.5% below average for the grade. I was "below" average across almost every aspect, but finger strength was the worst. And that was after doing FBing and seeing significant gains.
As a 40yo, I hear ya on the needing rest and such, ad I'm sure it gets worse. Personally, The finger strength aspect for me is still so key, I continue to do at east 1 hang session a week as maintenance regardless of the current season/training aspect.
[/quote]
I have not done a lattice test so i cant reference it. I have done a pretty honest self assessment based on all the Steve Maisch stuff and my finger strength was without doubt the worst thing, hence my focus. Most of the other stuff i did alright in (not 15 reps benching my bodyweight though).
I also hear that the edge lattice do there tests on is much smaller the the beastmaker rung so my scores one armed will be even worse.
-
I also hear that the edge lattice do there tests on is much smaller the the beastmaker rung so my scores one armed will be even worse.
It's significantly poorer, especially as there's no nestling to be had.
As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.
-
As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease.
I'll have to get a copy for my wife, she was at a cardiovascular health conference yesterday!
-
As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.
Are you suggesting i just loose loads of weight.
-
As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease.
I'll have to get a copy for my wife, she was at a cardiovascular health conference yesterday!
It's pretty heavy going, but equally pretty shocking. I'm almost not looking forward to the latter part of it, as I think I can guess what's coming.
-
As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.
Are you suggesting i just loose loads of weight.
Depends what you wanna do. I was 2Kg heavier than I am now two years ago when I seemed to be bouldering outside harder than ever before. But then 2Kg lighter than that when I re-climbed Basic Ben, a truer litmus test.
-
Mon. Board lapping a few problems. Dumbbell workout. Bike 1 hr intervals.
Tue. Nothing.
Wed. Nothing.
Thu. 30 warm up problems the repeaters 5 secs on 5 off x 5 5 sets with 42 lbs added. Bike 1 hr intervals.
Fri. Bike 64.83 miles 3 hrs 53 mins. Grandson came for weekend.
Sat. Nothing.
Sun. Board doing laps on problems 35 in total. Bike 23.11 miles 1 hr 23 mins steady ride. Family walk for a couple of hours.
-
As a bit of an aside, I'm half way through reading The Big Fat Surprise, which basically rips apart all of the scientific research into diet and how it relates to heart disease. Any 'research' relating to training for climbing needs to be approached with a big fat dose of skepticism. Obvs.
Sounds interesting, but google reveals TBFS is perhaps distorting quite a lot of the research to support her theory...
This seems like quite a rigorous critique, though I haven't got the interest to read it all from start to finish...
https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2014/08/10/the-big-fat-surprise-a-critical-review-part-1/
New Scientist review utters a word of caution...
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329801-400-fat-and-sugar-diet-of-confusion/