Well that’s the rumour.
If true can anyone confirm and give the background.
Is that why he only did day 1 at CWIF?
Flashing 30/30 qualifiers and then dropping out is a brilliant way to assert dominance. Semis not even worth his time? ;)
(or are we making it far more political than it is). :shrug:
There should have been a place for Will in the team even if he decided not to compete for a while - if he is climbing hard outdoors, it will benefit him and GB Climbing in the long term. He is one of only a small handful of world-class climbers in the GB setup.
There should have been a place for Will in the team even if he decided not to compete for a while - if he is climbing hard outdoors, it will benefit him and GB Climbing in the long term. He is one of only a small handful of world-class climbers in the GB setup.
Out of interest, what do you think would be the benefits of him being on the squad if he's not planning on competing? Presumably there's costs associated with having someone on the team so why not put that money towards someone who is actually planning on doing comps?
Well I think that might be a first for UK climbing, someone’s PR person responding on their behalf!
Although Jerry probably got there first in the ‘90’s 😄
I like to imagine Bird briefing Will, as he pulls on for his 20th set of 4x4s in his secure underground training facility, on the social media reaction to their latest stunt. Will, cackling as he wipes the sweat from his brow, before bellowing TOWEL! Ya useless feck!
I suspect he has chosen not to be in the team as it simply offers no benefits, which is a pretty damning indictment.
I suspect he has chosen not to be in the team as it simply offers no benefits, which is a pretty damning indictment.
I'm not sure why this is a damning indictment if he wants to go climb outside? I'm not aware of Bouin being on the French team for the sake of it, or Woods in the US, or those youngish strong Spanish 9b crushers who don't climb inside much and whose names I always get mixed up (Jorge and the other guy)? Or are they "in the team system" as it were in order to get something from it and I've missed that? Should GBClimbing be putting Josh Ibbo into the team system somehow even if he's not doing comps because he's likely to be world class on rock in the next few years? What would they give him? Money to go climb outside? I'm a bit confused about what you're advocating...
P.s. I think Remus was asking what the benefit to the team would be of funding someone who wasn't doing comps, not what the benefits to Will could be, especially given that he still trains with team members down the School etc.
Yep, nailed it. That is the exact dynamic between us. :whip:
- GB Climbing. Will won the boulder selection event for Moscow World Champs last year but wasn't selected for the squad so go figure but guess we need to respect the process that GB are trying to put in place.
I’m psyched that Will is taking a year out to focus on outdoor climbing as I’m far more excited by what he does on rock. On the other hand I also have a long-standing interest in the BMC and how it meets its obligations and expectations. Presumably the primary goal of GB Climbing is to have the national team perform well on the world stage and if their procedures, management or whatever have caused or contributed to the loss of the star player then it is not meeting its obligations/expectations. Trouble is there is a conspiracy of silence as it is not in athletes best interest to be publicly critical.
I’m psyched that Will is taking a year out to focus on outdoor climbing as I’m far more excited by what he does on rock. On the other hand I also have a long-standing interest in the BMC and how it meets its obligations and expectations. Presumably the primary goal of GB Climbing is to have the national team perform well on the world stage and if their procedures, management or whatever have caused or contributed to the loss of the star player then it is not meeting its obligations/expectations. Trouble is there is a conspiracy of silence as it is not in athletes best interest to be publicly critical.
Just to say. My posts above are based on experience/observations of the GB setup in general and not specifically Will.
In summary the BMC are trying to do too much, for too many, with not enough resources.
Indeed the rates of pay i saw were less than that of a route setter. Like you say a lot of it will come down to the love if it.
What surprised me is that everything at rowing at a club level seems to be done on a volunteer basis including all the coaching and competitions. It has saved us an absolute fortune!
I climb with several former british junior champions. They all dropped out of competing as soon as they turned twenty, got cars, moved somewhere good for getting outdoors, and escaped the sphere of influence of parents/ team managers etc. Comp climbing will always have a retention problem because it is a sub-sport of something much bigger, older and more interesting. Nobody in the wider sport sees it as the real deal, and as climbers mature they will always feel the need to prove themselves outside. The more competitive inside becomes, the less easy it is to fit in cutting edge performance outside. So the only way you'll keep people competing is to throw money at them (which tbf seems to be what they've been doing), but people will always be looking to get out. But realistically the team approach also needs to allow or preferably incorporate serious outside time and achievement as a part of the yearly training cycle.
Comp climbing will always have a retention problem because it is a sub-sport of something much bigger, older and more interesting. Nobody in the wider sport sees it as the real deal, and as climbers mature they will always feel the need to prove themselves outside.
the acceptance of competition climbing as a ‘real deal’ has increased massively in the past decade
Do you think this holds true in other countries? A lot of international competitors seem to be happy to not do much outdoors.
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way.
I climb with several former british junior champions. They all dropped out of competing as soon as they turned twenty, got cars, moved somewhere good for getting outdoors, and escaped the sphere of influence of parents/ team managers etc…. people will always be looking to get out.
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way.
This just speaks to your personal interests though right? You only have to look at other competitive sports, where there are stattos that can give you Merckx’s whole palmares, and those who only know the significant wins.
Same can be applied to FAs, just because you have your name against a bit of rock somewhere, it’s not much of a legacy unless it’s a significant route.
This just speaks to your personal interests though right?
Same goes for all sports people compete in as kids. Once you get to your late teens/ early 20s the last thing you want to be doing is the parent-led grind you’ve done for the previous ten years or so, particularly if the only pleasure you got from it was winning.
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way.
I think that climbing in the Olympics changes this a lot. You might not remember who wins some competitions here and there but the Olympics medalists for sure.
If Janja keeps doing what she's doing, and stays away from rock as much as she has done in the past, you don't think she'd be remembered as one of the best? Nobody has won comps like she has - if she kept doing that and didn't put up any new hard rock routes, I don't think we'd forget about her. While we might not remember every result, it's still a hell of a legacy.
I'm under no illusions how popular walls are, but I don't see any danger of interest in indoor results surpassing outdoors.
Yeah she'd be up there with Francois Legrand. But I'll be very surprised if in ten years she hasn't built an even more impressive CV on rock.
I think that climbing in the Olympics changes this a lot. You might not remember who wins some competitions here and there but the Olympics medalists for sure.
Remind me - who won the Men’s Olympic gold?
I think that climbing in the Olympics changes this a lot. You might not remember who wins some competitions here and there but the Olympics medalists for sure.
Remind me - who won the Men’s Olympic gold?
…it's an objective view of the sport as a whole, present, past and future.
I dont think it makes a lot of sense to pretend outdoors is intrinsically better than indoors
…it's an objective view of the sport as a whole, present, past and future.
I’d be fascinated to know how you’ve made this view objective and sidestepped any personal or generational biases that may lead it it becoming subjective!
And I can’t even spell it.
Plus I only know about Lynn Hill cos she won Snowbird. Has she done anything outside?
It's more objective than you lot are being. Hands up who was more excited for that guy who's name no one remembers bizarrely winning gold, or for Bosi doing Brandenberg gate? I mean I can copy and paste your derisory/ psyched comments on each thread if you insist. And that's a grotty old project at the tor vs the actual fucking olympics. NO ONE CARES.
OTOH, if you widen your umwelt to include the 8 year old down the Foundry who was desperately begging her mum to get her some 5:10s because "that's what Shauna wears" but who doesn't have a clue who Jerry is, your point gets somewhat weaker. And who still goes to the foundry?
More seriously Adam, if by "NO ONE" you mean no-one amongst me and my mates, I'm sure you're right.
What people value is not necessarily demonstrated by what they do, but what they aspire to do and are inspired by. Most of us live unremarkable lives dogged by circumstance and thwarted by contingencies. But we've all seen Free Solo.
Importance is purely subjective, participation is hard data and is a useful measure, but sure, aspiration is an important aspect and is one reason why part of the GB Climbing & BMC work isn't just about getting medals, but reduced barriers for those who want to try other aspects of the sport, whether that's climbing outside, becoming a coach, or anything else. Which you'd know if you'd read the various strategic plans which are publicly available.
Free Solo I.e the 4th best climbing film of all time
(3rd best is Rampage, 2nd best is Fear and Loathing, best is the footage of Nalle doing BoD)
I think that climbing in the Olympics changes this a lot. You might not remember who wins some competitions here and there but the Olympics medalists for sure.
Remind me - who won the Men’s Olympic gold?
Free Solo I.e the 4th best climbing film of all time
(3rd best is Rampage, 2nd best is Fear and Loathing, best is the footage of Nalle doing BoD)
Err, The Real Thing....
The Sheaf (the newer Heeley one) boulder is the best of a bad lot and the one which sees the most use. Because the council gave the builders a bit more scope to cater for actual climbers. The others are aimed largely at non climbers, who it turns out don't actually climb, who knew.
But even the Sheaf boulder put too little emphasis on hold type number and orientation, instead putting effort into macro design and leaving the detail to the construction team.
Quotethe acceptance of competition climbing as a ‘real deal’ has increased massively in the past decade
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way. Of course if people become uncompetitive at comp climbing by, say, 25, that could leave time for both. But people will still be mindful of not leaving their exit too late.
Free Solo I.e the 4th best climbing film of all time
(3rd best is Rampage, 2nd best is Fear and Loathing, best is the footage of Nalle doing BoD)
Err, The Real Thing....
I'm rewatching it now while pretending to do some work and yeah it is sick
Great soundtrack
Yeah, more scheduled this year, they'll be on the events calendar once confirmed. One of the really good things here is we are starting to get experienced young trad climbers who came on these meets a few years ago return to help lead on them.
Importance is purely subjective, participation is hard data and is a useful measure, but sure, aspiration is an important aspect and is one reason why part of the GB Climbing & BMC work isn't just about getting medals, but reduced barriers for those who want to try other aspects of the sport, whether that's climbing outside, becoming a coach, or anything else. Which you'd know if you'd read the various strategic plans which are publicly available.
Fully agree with this and helping with that transition is something that BMC have done well.
My daughter did a few of the BMC/DMM youth meets that Caff organised. They were brilliant; £40 to drop your teenager off at a club hut for a weekend of climbing with pros and surviving for themselves.
Unfortunately I can't see them on the BMC website for this year. Hopefully it is just a temporary COVID absence.
Edit: just seen on his Instagram that he ran one last weekend
Yeah, more scheduled this year, they'll be on the events calendar once confirmed. One of the really good things here is we are starting to get experienced young trad climbers who came on these meets a few years ago return to help lead on them.
Importance is purely subjective, participation is hard data and is a useful measure, but sure, aspiration is an important aspect and is one reason why part of the GB Climbing & BMC work isn't just about getting medals, but reduced barriers for those who want to try other aspects of the sport, whether that's climbing outside, becoming a coach, or anything else. Which you'd know if you'd read the various strategic plans which are publicly available.
Fully agree with this and helping with that transition is something that BMC have done well.
My daughter did a few of the BMC/DMM youth meets that Caff organised. They were brilliant; £40 to drop your teenager off at a club hut for a weekend of climbing with pros and surviving for themselves.
Unfortunately I can't see them on the BMC website for this year. Hopefully it is just a temporary COVID absence.
Edit: just seen on his Instagram that he ran one last weekend
I'm a long way over 25 and I have no idea who Alan Watts is.Quotethe acceptance of competition climbing as a ‘real deal’ has increased massively in the past decade
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way. Of course if people become uncompetitive at comp climbing by, say, 25, that could leave time for both. But people will still be mindful of not leaving their exit too late.
I think you're out of touch with the younger generation of climbers. I would be willing to bet money more climbers under 25 know who Akiyo Noguchi, Tomoa Narasaki, and Janja Ganrbret are than who know about the likes of Ron Fawcett, Johnny Brown, and Alan Watts.
I'm a long way over 25 and I have no idea who Alan Watts is.Quotethe acceptance of competition climbing as a ‘real deal’ has increased massively in the past decade
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way. Of course if people become uncompetitive at comp climbing by, say, 25, that could leave time for both. But people will still be mindful of not leaving their exit too late.
I think you're out of touch with the younger generation of climbers. I would be willing to bet money more climbers under 25 know who Akiyo Noguchi, Tomoa Narasaki, and Janja Ganrbret are than who know about the likes of Ron Fawcett, Johnny Brown, and Alan Watts.
I'm a long way over 25 and I have no idea who Alan Watts is.
I'm a long way over 25 and I have no idea who Alan Watts is.Quotethe acceptance of competition climbing as a ‘real deal’ has increased massively in the past decade
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way. Of course if people become uncompetitive at comp climbing by, say, 25, that could leave time for both. But people will still be mindful of not leaving their exit too late.
I think you're out of touch with the younger generation of climbers. I would be willing to bet money more climbers under 25 know who Akiyo Noguchi, Tomoa Narasaki, and Janja Ganrbret are than who know about the likes of Ron Fawcett, Johnny Brown, and Alan Watts.
Next you’ll be claiming you never heard of Charlton Chestwig.I'm a long way over 25 and I have no idea who Alan Watts is.Quotethe acceptance of competition climbing as a ‘real deal’ has increased massively in the past decade
Only up to a point. Who remembers old comp results? Only the occasional exceptional one. If you want your talent to leave a legacy it is first ascents on rock all the way. Of course if people become uncompetitive at comp climbing by, say, 25, that could leave time for both. But people will still be mindful of not leaving their exit too late.
I think you're out of touch with the younger generation of climbers. I would be willing to bet money more climbers under 25 know who Akiyo Noguchi, Tomoa Narasaki, and Janja Ganrbret are than who know about the likes of Ron Fawcett, Johnny Brown, and Alan Watts.
I'm a long way over 25 and I have no idea who Alan Watts is.
Developer of Smith Rock, father of US sport climbing.
Who's Will Bosi again? Was he in the olympics doing that speed climbing? Great that.
Sorry Wellsy but you can’t just wade into such an emotive and important topic with absolutes like that. This sort of thing needs a thread entirely of its own at the very least.
Free Solo I.e the 4th best climbing film of all time
(3rd best is Rampage, 2nd best is Fear and Loathing, best is the footage of Nalle doing BoD)
https://youtu.be/BXz6ZcHQqMk
Unbelievably this masterpiece has only had 14 views in 10 years.
Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.
Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.
I know, bonkers eh? I mean, it's basically the equivalent of one of Ondra's local-only nasty test-pieces that naebody is ever going to be bothered to repeat.
Hard, and significant in local (peak-centric) historic terms but not even nationally interesting imo...
Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.
I know, bonkers eh? I mean, it's basically the equivalent of one of Ondra's local-only nasty test-pieces that naebody is ever going to be bothered to repeat.
Hard, and significant in local (peak-centric) historic terms but not even nationally interesting imo...
There's only a handful of routes 9a+ or harder in the UK so it's nationally significant in terms of difficulty if nothing else.
That's not the point.
Which of Will's competition results do you think are more important/memorable?
Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.
Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.
Ye but hardly anyone these days will even know that nevermind think about it whereas The Prow and The Young are still problems that get people talking ;)
Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.
.Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.
Ye but hardly anyone these days will even know that nevermind think about it whereas The Prow and The Young are still problems that get people talking ;)
Very true, but fuck what anyone else thinks, all that matters is what you think…. I don’t think some comp kid from London gives two shits what JB thinks, what’s he ever done at the westway for starters.
.Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.
Ye but hardly anyone these days will even know that nevermind think about it whereas The Prow and The Young are still problems that get people talking ;)
Very true, but fuck what anyone else thinks, all that matters is what you think…. I don’t think some comp kid from London gives two shits what JB thinks, what’s he ever done at the westway for starters.
Dunno but I can confirm ShowPonies are native to both the Plantation and the Westway. I’ve seen them with my own eyes .
Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.
I know, bonkers eh? I mean, it's basically the equivalent of one of Ondra's local-only nasty test-pieces that naebody is ever going to be bothered to repeat.
Hard, and significant in local (peak-centric) historic terms but not even nationally interesting imo...
Whilst in the USA I had the privilege of being a part of a workshop at the IFSC General Assembly. Sharing the stage with fellow Olympians discussing the Games and how National Federations can better support athletes. I feel incredibly privileged to be the President of the IFSC Athletes Commission and to be a part of an organisation that has two athletes with voting rights sat on their Executive Board. Maybe we’ll see this happening in more of our National Federations too.
I wanted to share some of my thoughts with you here after reflecting on my own personal journey as well as voices from other athletes.
Our sport is at a pivotal point. Climbing’s inclusion in the Olympic Games enables us to share Climbing with the world on a platform like no other. The opportunity to represent my country on the biggest sporting stage is a privilege I will never forget. There are so few medals at the Olympic Games. At any event. Athletes fuelled by passion, dedication and dreams work hard for the opportunity to fight for those medals. The reality is so few will hold one in their hands.
With the Olympics comes exposure, money and pressure. Not just for athletes but for coaches, managers and the National Federations.
This exposure will also change our sport. We have already seen this with new sporting formats, new rules but this change impacts all aspects of an athlete's journey in the sport all the way down to junior level. We are no longer a small sport of passionate people who love climbing, instead we have new infrastructures to manage Olympic programmes and people coming into the sport for the salaries and the glory to deliver ‘high performance’.
This is where I fear athletes will suffer.
Climbing is a creative sport, a lifestyle sport. It is not like swimming. Every magical moment in competitions has come from a moment of artistry where the athlete responds to the challenge made by the setters. This creativity is the core of our sports values. It is the connective thread from the walls on the Olympic stage right through to climbing on rock.
However I see these values being continually dismissed as a trade off for seeking ‘performance’. Athletes are regularly locked out of conversations which could have pivotal impacts on their competitive careers and their livelihoods under the moniker of ‘reducing the noise of the athlete’. I experienced this myself during my career but luckily I had a team around me who fought to include me in these discussions so I could own my journey.
Creating an environment of trust with open communication is essential. Athletes should never feel they can not be honest. I know from personal experience and from others that there is a constant fear of not being selected, being dismissed, jeopardising your opportunity to compete. That fear becomes silence or conformity.
Please can someone decode this for me? It's like trying to read a post by Dave Mac about a hard trad grade - many words, few of much meaning
Yeah this all seems cryptic and a bit vague to me. What decisions? About what? Made by whom?
"Tom leads on the continual development, review, refinement, and improvement of GB Climbing’s Performance Matrix, and works with the rest of GB Climbing to develop effective sustainable systems for longitudinal tracking and monitoring of the performance status and progress of athletes throughout the GB Climbing Performance and Talent pathway, with a focus on delivery of aspects of Olympic Competition."Good work on picking out some choice bullshit bingo words from your quiver, but to be frank although it's overly wordy, the role description for Tom essentially says what he does without a huge amount of extraneous flannel. I'm sure there are some far worse examples you could find and pillory from behind the comfort of your keyboard if you put the effort in. Back around!
Surely you could have worked 'holistic', 'cross-pollinate', 'operationalise' and 'high-level learnings' into this magnificent description. Or perhaps I am just decomposing this to a lower level of granulation?
The omission of 'synergies' is particularly disappointing imoHeads will roll for this.
Heads will roll
I’ve heard that Aidan hasn’t been selected because he couldn’t attend the selection event because of a broken foot. That seems crazy if true as the selection criteria (https://www.thebmc.co.uk/media/files/Comps/Rules/Selection%20Policy/GB%20Senior%20Team%20International%20Selection%20Policy%202021-2024.pdf?_ga=2.196646508.1975648603.1648837581-1596623835.1648837581) gives the selectors a lot of discretion to take into account things like injury in choosing the team. Pretty fucked up if they’ve lost the two standout male climbers of this generation.
Do you actually care about GB comp climbing performances, or are you just using this as another stick to attempt to beat the BMC?
I’m psyched that Will is taking a year out to focus on outdoor climbing as I’m far more excited by what he does on rock. On the other hand I also have a long-standing interest in the BMC and how it meets its obligations and expectations. Presumably the primary goal of GB Climbing is to have the national team perform well on the world stage and if their procedures, management or whatever have caused or contributed to the loss of the star player then it is not meeting its obligations/expectations.
Star player seems a bit of a push, do you know how many senior podiums Will has been on?
He hasn't podiumed afaikStar player seems a bit of a push, do you know how many senior podiums Will has been on?
Enlighten me
The best rock climbers aren't the always the best comp climbers. And vice versa.
Comp climbing has suddenly got a lot more serious and the days of being the best climber outdoors and being able to rock up at a World Cup and win that too are long gone. Ondra proves this on a regular basis (not that fair - he does win some big comps, but on paper he should win all of them!)
Winning a qualification round where there is no pressure, and having the head to win a big final with the eyes of the TV viewing world on you are different games. It's much easier to climb when there's no pressure, but dealing with pressure is a huge part of comp climbing.
I think GB Climbing are backing dedicated comp athletes who are committed long term to comp climbing. They are looking to develop athletes for Olympic Games in 8 or 12 years time - not who's cranking now.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.
Can we change this thread title,
‘Old dads don’t understand comp climbing and even millennials are disillusioned with it’
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.
The best rock climbers aren't the always the best comp climbers. And vice versa.
Comp climbing has suddenly got a lot more serious and the days of being the best climber outdoors and being able to rock up at a World Cup and win that too are long gone. Ondra proves this on a regular basis (not that fair - he does win some big comps, but on paper he should win all of them!)
Winning a qualification round where there is no pressure, and having the head to win a big final with the eyes of the TV viewing world on you are different games. It's much easier to climb when there's no pressure, but dealing with pressure is a huge part of comp climbing.
I think GB Climbing are backing dedicated comp athletes who are committed long term to comp climbing. They are looking to develop athletes for Olympic Games in 8 or 12 years time - not who's cranking now.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.
. Pretty fucked up if they’ve lost the two standout male climbers of this generation.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.
Sounds ominous. What changes do you anticipate?
It's deeply upsetting to see climbing going this way though; just another conveyor belt of performance induced misery, leaching the heart and soul from the participants and regurgitating repetitive "competition" in the name of money and mass entertainment.All you (pointing around in general) Goal Climbers are guilty (or the root cause?!) of this, it's the natural extrapolation of the tail-wagging-dog number-chasing mentality!!
As soon as they're released from the yolk of parental expectation / desperation they see the light
As soon as they're released from the yolk of parental expectation / desperation they see the light
Brilliant eggcorn there!
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.
Sounds ominous. What changes do you anticipate?
Administrators bringing their 'transferable skills' from other sports who are only in it for the money and reflected glory, abusive parents and coaches, PEDs, corrupt administration hand-in-glove with despotic regimes, money channeled to potential medal winning sports and athletes and away from the grass-roots. If other sports are anything to go by.
It's deeply upsetting to see climbing going this way though; just another conveyor belt of performance induced misery, leaching the heart and soul from the participants and regurgitating repetitive "competition" in the name of money and mass entertainment.
Abusive relationships in an immature competitive environment would certainly concern me a lot, yeah. Especially in the realm of eating disorders.
As soon as they're released from the yolk of parental expectation / desperation they see the light
Brilliant eggcorn there!
I think Bradders was talking about how the parents are going to have egg of their face 😄
I think probably most young people in comps are mega psyched to be there and really grateful to have parents who support them with a not inconsiderable amount of time and money. I really wish when I was a kid I'd have had something similar that I loved and/or was supported in and even pushed a little. I regret that I wasn'tYes totally. From what I understand, this is an area the BMC are doing serious work on at the moment.
We do of course in a lot of sports have careful safeguarding procedures in place though because as was recently in the news re. Youth Swimming these abusive relationships can and do form even in sports with lots of time behind them spent thinking about it. Like those measures are there for a good reason! It would be foolish to discount that area as a potential concern in a sport that's growing from very small roots very rapidly. How many sports can really say the top priority is athlete wellbeing. That seems to be an element of Shauna's criticism after all.
It's deeply upsetting to see climbing going this way though; just another conveyor belt of performance induced misery, leaching the heart and soul from the participants and regurgitating repetitive "competition" in the name of money and mass entertainment.All you (pointing around in general) Goal Climbers are guilty (or the root cause?!) of this, it's the natural extrapolation of the tail-wagging-dog number-chasing mentality!!
I think probably most young people in comps are mega psyched to be there and really grateful to have parents who support them with a not inconsiderable amount of time and money. I really wish when I was a kid I'd have had something similar that I loved and/or was supported in and even pushed a little. I regret that I wasn'tYes totally. From what I understand, this is an area the BMC are doing serious work on at the moment.
We do of course in a lot of sports have careful safeguarding procedures in place though because as was recently in the news re. Youth Swimming these abusive relationships can and do form even in sports with lots of time behind them spent thinking about it. Like those measures are there for a good reason! It would be foolish to discount that area as a potential concern in a sport that's growing from very small roots very rapidly. How many sports can really say the top priority is athlete wellbeing. That seems to be an element of Shauna's criticism after all.
money channeled to potential medal winning sports and athletes and away from the grass-roots.
The best rock climbers aren't the always the best comp climbers. And vice versa.
Comp climbing has suddenly got a lot more serious and the days of being the best climber outdoors and being able to rock up at a World Cup and win that too are long gone. Ondra proves this on a regular basis (not that fair - he does win some big comps, but on paper he should win all of them!)
Winning a qualification round where there is no pressure, and having the head to win a big final with the eyes of the TV viewing world on you are different games. It's much easier to climb when there's no pressure, but dealing with pressure is a huge part of comp climbing.
I think GB Climbing are backing dedicated comp athletes who are committed long term to comp climbing. They are looking to develop athletes for Olympic Games in 8 or 12 years time - not who's cranking now.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.
Good and positive to hear!
In all fairness if guys like Tomoa, Kokoro, and Yoshiyuki actually spent more time bouldering outdoors they would easily be among the world's elite. Tomoa quite recently did a consensus v15 in 3 tries which is totally mind boggling. I'm sure if he actually dedicated 10+ sessions to a proj he could send the very hardest boulders in the world..
money channeled to potential medal winning sports and athletes and away from the grass-roots.
I'm afraid that ship has sailed, the BMC already assigns as much of its income to GB Climbing as it does to access. Other than that I love comps and although there'll probably come a time they need to go their separate ways I'm pleased that, in the UK at least, there is still a lot of synergy between outdoor climbing and comps.
On the subject of Will Bosi, I think we all do understand that being good outdoors does not necessarily mean you’ll a good comp climber, but it was strongly implied that the reason for his non-inclusion was not performance related and that he did on in the trails. Also the UK lead comp team doesn't seem to have that much strength on depth, I'd have thought he warranted a place on the squad if he wanted one.
As the parent of a son who does okay in comps...
I was led to believe that this funding primarily came from sport England etc and covered most if not all of these costs and that sport England had defined where this funding went.
Comps work is generally expensive and access is generally cheap.
Good and positive to hear!
Nick Colton is the safeguarding officer at the BMC. Masses of experience, although I don’t know what his role re competitions is tbf
Thought I'd clear this all up. Will has left GB climbing and gone to Czech to downgrade all of Ondra's routes and fabricate a beef between them. He's got the inside scoop that Netflix is starting production of 'climb to survive' and is ensuring he's got a good story arc to be one of the main characters. It will be centered around a new world series in which athletes compete for brands instead of countries. Shauna will be the over-caffeinated sugary drink company crew chief and so is trash talking existing federations to win favour and pillage the best athletes for her team. The IFSC can see the ship sinking so have cashed in the livestream rights for a quick buck whilst they still can.
Thought I'd clear this all up. Will has left GB climbing and gone to Czech to downgrade all of Ondra's routes and fabricate a beef between them. He's got the inside scoop that Netflix is starting production of 'climb to survive' and is ensuring he's got a good story arc to be one of the main characters. It will be centered around a new world series in which athletes compete for brands instead of countries. Shauna will be the over-caffeinated sugary drink company crew chief and so is trash talking existing federations to win favour and pillage the best athletes for her team. The IFSC can see the ship sinking so have cashed in the livestream rights for a quick buck whilst they still can.
Damn, and I thought he left because it was announced that for Paris 2024, Speed Abseiling was replacing Lead as one of the disciplines.
The best rock climbers aren't the always the best comp climbers. And vice versa.
Comp climbing has suddenly got a lot more serious and the days of being the best climber outdoors and being able to rock up at a World Cup and win that too are long gone. Ondra proves this on a regular basis (not that fair - he does win some big comps, but on paper he should win all of them!)
Winning a qualification round where there is no pressure, and having the head to win a big final with the eyes of the TV viewing world on you are different games. It's much easier to climb when there's no pressure, but dealing with pressure is a huge part of comp climbing.
I think GB Climbing are backing dedicated comp athletes who are committed long term to comp climbing. They are looking to develop athletes for Olympic Games in 8 or 12 years time - not who's cranking now.
The progression to Olympic level sport has and will continue to change the sport of competition climbing out of all recognition from what we have known before, and many of these changes will not be pretty. They will almost all come about because of 'experts' who can smell money coming onto the sport.
In all fairness if guys like Tomoa, Kokoro, and Yoshiyuki actually spent more time bouldering outdoors they would easily be among the world's elite. Tomoa quite recently did a consensus v15 in 3 tries which is totally mind boggling. I'm sure if he actually dedicated 10+ sessions to a proj he could send the very hardest boulders in the world..
Maybe a waste of money in terms of sustained comp results, but it sounds like it was formative in your climbing life which is significant on various levels and an inspiration to many. Many would consider it BMC money well spent, whatever the intended purpose. I think regardless of how narrow and targeted comp support becomes, it will keep producing collateral positives for individuals and the broader world of climbing, even if the system is trying its utmost to produce one result and one result alone.
Maybe a waste of money in terms of sustained comp results, but it sounds like it was formative in your climbing life which is significant on various levels and an inspiration to many. Many would consider it BMC money well spent, whatever the intended purpose. I think regardless of how narrow and targeted comp support becomes, it will keep producing collateral positives for individuals and the broader world of climbing, even if the system is trying its utmost to produce one result and one result alone.