Print Page - There’s a bloke fighting this weekend

the shizzle => news => Topic started by: moose on September 23, 2021, 10:20:47 pm

Title: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on September 23, 2021, 10:20:47 pm

Quote from: Nibile on September 23, 2021, 05:16:23 pm

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on September 23, 2021, 10:15:21 am
Nibile: Usyk KO 11 for my money
Do you mean Usyk wins by ko or loses by ko?

I reckon Joshua will win by TKO. Usyk is the better boxer, pound for pound (that Papa Lomachenko training) but he is a natural Cruiserweight and Joshua is a biiiiggggg Heavyweight. Evander Holyfield might have bridged that gap in the past but he was probably 'roided (see the "Evan Fields" Balco controversy). And, he faced smaller Heavyweights - Tyson for all his ability and viciousness was 5'10", Joshua is 6' 5-6".

Despite the difference in their physiques, Usyk has similarities to Ruiz, Joshua's last opponent - not tall, fast hands, and good technique. In the rematch against Ruiz, Joshua showed he could box patiently against such a speedster - keeping him at range and using the jab, Klitschko style. Usyk has won his two Heavyweight fights - Chaz Weatherspoon and Chisora - but while he never looked liked losing, he was not convincing. I wouldn't bet any money on it (and I find Usyk quite engaging "I am very....feel"), but I think a non-washed, genuine "Super Heavyweight" will be an unpleasant surprise for him - weight divisions exist for a a reason.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Yossarian on September 24, 2021, 09:47:39 am

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on September 23, 2021, 10:15:21 am

Usyk KO 11 for my money.

For a moment I thought this was a proposed name and new grading system for Gresh's route...

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on September 24, 2021, 10:08:23 am

Moose and Liam, cheers.
Mixed feeling for me, I like both fighters.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on September 24, 2021, 12:52:03 pm

Quote from: moose on September 23, 2021, 10:20:47 pm

Quote from: Nibile on September 23, 2021, 05:16:23 pm
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on September 23, 2021, 10:15:21 am
Nibile: Usyk KO 11 for my money
Do you mean Usyk wins by ko or loses by ko?

I reckon Joshua will win by TKO. Usyk is the better boxer, pound for pound (that Papa Lomachenko training) but he is a natural Cruiserweight and Joshua is a biiiiggggg Heavyweight. Evander Holyfield might have bridged that gap in the past but he was probably 'roided (see the "Evan Fields" Balco controversy). And, he faced smaller Heavyweights - Tyson for all his ability and viciousness was 5'10", Joshua is 6' 5-6".

Despite the difference in their physiques, Usyk has similarities to Ruiz, Joshua's last opponent - not tall, fast hands, and good technique. In the rematch against Ruiz, Joshua showed he could box patiently against such a speedster - keeping him at range and using the jab, Klitschko style. Usyk has won his two Heavyweight fights - Chaz Weatherspoon and Chisora - but while he never looked liked losing, he was not convincing. I wouldn't bet any money on it (and I find Usyk quite engaging "I am very....feel"), but I think a non-washed, genuine "Super Heavyweight" will be an unpleasant surprise for him - weight divisions exist for a a reason.

Can we have a boxing thread? I agree with Moose; Usyk is a great fighter and was a quality cruiserweight but Joshua is not the blundering bodybuilder people caricature him as. He can box, and he is massive compared to Usyk. I wouldn't rule Usyk out, but he's going to have to box brilliantly to beat Joshua I think, eventually the heavy artillery will make itself felt. Also can't see AJ tiring as Liam predicts, he should be able to control the centre of the ring and do a fraction of the dancing Usyk will have to. Usyk looked good against his previous opponents but they were hardly in Joshua's class and he looked uncertain at times against Chisora and even Bellew down at cruiser. Great fight though.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on September 24, 2021, 03:20:23 pm

Quote from: spidermonkey09 on September 24, 2021, 12:52:03 pm

Quote from: moose on September 23, 2021, 10:20:47 pm
Quote from: Nibile on September 23, 2021, 05:16:23 pm
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on September 23, 2021, 10:15:21 am
Nibile: Usyk KO 11 for my money
Do you mean Usyk wins by ko or loses by ko?

I reckon Joshua will win by TKO. Usyk is the better boxer, pound for pound (that Papa Lomachenko training) but he is a natural Cruiserweight and Joshua is a biiiiggggg Heavyweight. Evander Holyfield might have bridged that gap in the past but he was probably 'roided (see the "Evan Fields" Balco controversy). And, he faced smaller Heavyweights - Tyson for all his ability and viciousness was 5'10", Joshua is 6' 5-6".

Despite the difference in their physiques, Usyk has similarities to Ruiz, Joshua's last opponent - not tall, fast hands, and good technique. In the rematch against Ruiz, Joshua showed he could box patiently against such a speedster - keeping him at range and using the jab, Klitschko style. Usyk has won his two Heavyweight fights - Chaz Weatherspoon and Chisora - but while he never looked liked losing, he was not convincing. I wouldn't bet any money on it (and I find Usyk quite engaging "I am very....feel"), but I think a non-washed, genuine "Super Heavyweight" will be an unpleasant surprise for him - weight divisions exist for a a reason.

Can we have a boxing thread? I agree with Moose; Usyk is a great fighter and was a quality cruiserweight but Joshua is not the blundering bodybuilder people caricature him as. He can box, and he is massive compared to Usyk. I wouldn't rule Usyk out, but he's going to have to box brilliantly to beat Joshua I think, eventually the heavy artillery will make itself felt. Also can't see AJ tiring as Liam predicts, he should be able to control the centre of the ring and do a fraction of the dancing Usyk will have to. Usyk looked good against his previous opponents but they were hardly in Joshua's class and he looked uncertain at times against Chisora and even Bellew down at cruiser. Great fight though.

I see claims that Joshua's advantages are too much to overcome, but I see Usyk as having most of the advantages. Joshua has the size and strength (and house fighter 'advantages'), but Usyk has:

Ring IQ
Workrate and stamina
Southpaw
Footspeed
Angles
Offensive footwork (I think this is his key assett in this fight, applying mental pressure with his feet)
Accuracy
Ability to go through the gears and switch between plan A, B and C on the fly.
Confidence of not yet knowing defeat.

Hand speed is more or less even I think, Joshua's handspeed is underrated. Conversely, I think Joshua's power is a bit overrated. Go through his highlights and there's a distinct lack of proper knockouts, just lots of referee stoppages. It's certainly not wilder power! I'm not entirely convinced Joshua punches any harder than Chisora (look at their common opponent in Takam, whom chisora flat lined). Joshua is more skilled than people think and that's why he's a very good fighter, rather than his power, which is good but not extraordinary.

Don't get me wrong, this is a close fight where I only slightly favour usyk. If Joshua wins I dont think it will be down to his 3 inch height advantage or 20lb weight advantage, but it will be due to a continually improving Joshua who has added more tools to his game. It also helps that Joshua is already 4 rounds up on Howard Fosters card (lovely new porsche on his drive).

Proper excited! Usyk puts in a career best performance, goes up the gears in the 2nd half of the fight, bamboozles a tiring Joshua with angles and footwork, keeps upping the work rate and lands on those glass temples in the 11th :punk:

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on September 24, 2021, 07:04:39 pm

Interesting post- although I think a lot of it is at least arguable. The concept of a one punch knockout is attractive but not really that common when I think about it. Wilder has that power for sure, and the Whyte knockout of Chisora comes to mind, but I don't think its that common. When you combine that rarity with the growing and correct trend of referees stopping fights before someone gets knocked unconscious, I don't think there is much unusual in AJ having no spectacular knockouts on his record. I take your point re Takam, with the proviso that Takam was a year further down the track by the time he fought Chisora (and probably should have won that fight well before Chisora sparked him). Also, Joshua's performance against Povetkin looked excellent in hindsight after Povetkin dealt with Whyte easily in their first fight. Obviously its all opinion, but hes clearly got power even if it isn't Wilder power.

Interesting that Joshua has weighed in reasonably light. By contrast Povetkin looks a bit flabby. To me thats the difference between a proper heavyweight who can tailor his weight accordingly because he is comfortable there, compared to a natural cruiser who has to bulk up to get there.

Also, I think your analysis rests on the assumption that Usyk won't be adversely affected by moving beyond his comfortable weight. Will his speed, workrate, stamina etc hold when fighting a good fighter as opposed to aging wash ups, someone who can hurt him and also move fast? We will see; I'd definitely have my last tenner on Joshua though! :boxing:

Incidentally you can get 75/1 for Usyk in R11 - good price!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on September 24, 2021, 07:38:17 pm

Couple of round table articles - predictions by journalists and boxers etc - for your consideration. Overwhelming consensus is Joshua - size and "home cooking" of scorecards.

https://www.badlefthook.com/2021/9/24/22691178/joshua-vs-usyk-who-wins-fight-predictions-preview-how-watch-dazn-boxing-news-2021 (https://www.badlefthook.com/2021/9/24/22691178/joshua-vs-usyk-who-wins-fight-predictions-preview-how-watch-dazn-boxing-news-2021)

https://www.ringtv.com/627231-fight-picks-anthony-joshua-vs-oleksandr-usyk/ (https://www.ringtv.com/627231-fight-picks-anthony-joshua-vs-oleksandr-usyk/)

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on September 25, 2021, 10:37:51 am

Good thread Moose!
I am extremely undecided, not being so competent, but my heart is 51% with Usyk. What a refreshing charachter he is for boxing!
His "I am very feel" reply is pure genius. Apart from that, he is a very educated guy, and he and AJ are giving a true class lesson at every press conference. Same for the face off and weigh in.
Canelo Alvarez, on the other hand, fell into a big trap during his first face off with Plant. He came out triumphantly but lost in image and professionality in my opinion. Ring wise, Plant is in for a big, big, help me say big, spanking.
He just scraped Canelo with three fingertips, then was immediately rewarded with a lightning fast left-right-left that left him completely puzzled. He tried to act, but it wasn't before he had two guys around him that he pretended to go towards Canelo. Sad show.
Going back to our big guys, I'm not sure there will be a stoppage.
If AJ is smart and keeps his cool, there will be a reply of Ruiz II, probably, although Ruiz went is massively out of shape and mind.
If they brawl, well anything can happen but I think AJ could go down, Usyk is mentally stronger and probably more accurate punch wise.
Let's not forget that the same power applied to different body parts does different damages. The way Usyk pinpointed Bellew chin for the ko is quite impressive.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on September 25, 2021, 10:41:28 am

A final note, just personal taste: I'd like a lot more to watch an unbeaten, dominant Usyk in a lighter class than a good Usyk in heavyweights with a few losses.
I understand that the big checks are in heavyweights (Canelo apart, since Pacquiao retired), and that you gotta pay them bills.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on September 25, 2021, 08:32:17 pm

I suspect the chances of Usyk getting a decision have decreased.

Campbell Hatton (Ricky's son) just got a points win, despite probably losing 5-1 on rounds - boos from a (British) crowd during then post-fight interview. Even the Sky pundits, who are usually very biased to the "home" fighter, were saying it was the wrong result. I just hope Castillo got well paid for his complicity.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on September 25, 2021, 11:03:50 pm

Great call Liam!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on September 25, 2021, 11:22:05 pm

Man, that hurt.
That really hurt.

.. You were saying Lore ;)

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on September 25, 2021, 11:30:52 pm

Well, that was a surprise...

Though my biggest shock was the post fight appearance of Lomachenno - bucket hat and facial hair, I thought it was a Gallagher brother at a 00s Glasto!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on September 25, 2021, 11:31:29 pm

Hope you had some money on that Liam, went almost exactly as you thought! AJ just never seemed to let the right hand go, comprehensively out boxed from start to finish by the better man.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on September 26, 2021, 12:25:04 am

I've got to be honest, nerves had me wavering on my prediction leading up to the fight, but as soon as Usyk stepped into the ring, I knew it was on! He had the same psychopathic look in his eyes that he had the last time he fought a true killer in Murat Gassiev.

If you watch back his cruiserweight run and the blistering pace he set, and consider that he did the same tonight, at 34 in a weight class he shouldn't be fighting in, it's clear as day that he wasn't trying in his previous professional Heavyweight fights, or his fight with Bellew. They were never a threat.

Olympic gold at Heavyweight
World Series Boxing gold medalist at Heavyweight
Undisputed cruiserweight champion winning all his belts on the road in a stacked division.
Unified champion at Heavyweight again winning on the road against the face of the sport.

He's cemented his legacy tonight as an all time great.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on September 26, 2021, 11:04:19 am

Mamma mia Usyk!!!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on September 26, 2021, 02:23:23 pm

Going through lots of Usyk videos on YouTube, I sincerely can't have enough of him at the moment.
Bigger than life.
Edit:
this picture.
https://images.app.goo.gl/xT1BxV6Jwhn1o2kG7 (https://images.app.goo.gl/xT1BxV6Jwhn1o2kG7)

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on October 01, 2021, 03:58:35 pm

Fury vs Wilder III this weekend...
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on October 01, 2021, 04:58:40 pm

The trilogy fight is next weekend on the 9th October. I predict a similar outcome to the 2nd bout but I think it lasts a few more rounds this time.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on October 02, 2021, 09:23:50 am

:slap: :slap:
It looks like I'm ahead of my times.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on October 04, 2021, 06:13:36 pm

For anyone that's interested in how matched betting works, Sky have odds boosted to 2.0 (decimal) on Fury to win, which you can correspondingly sell on a betting exchange at 1.44, for a guaranteed lock in profit of £3.89 on a £10 pound bet.

Just enough for a cheap bottle of plonk to enjoy in the run up ;D

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on October 07, 2021, 03:59:27 pm

I have no idea what you're talking about.
But tension is rising... They even failed to have a proper face-off...
Well, Fury was denied his face-off by the organizers.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on October 08, 2021, 05:58:25 am

Lore, I do a bit of "matched betting" - see "Owt fer Nowt".
You sort of "buy" and "sell" corresponding bets for a guaranteed profit. Adds an extra level of entertainment and intrigue.

Events like this are of course very big money gigs.

I enjoyed this interview, Fury and Neville.

https://youtu.be/EMUH9N3S9PY

Mods, let me know if there's a problem linking to this sort of thing.

:boxing:

This fight is the spectacle, but regardless of result the Joshua/Usyk rumble was so good for boxing in the class exhibited by both :bow:

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on October 10, 2021, 07:01:17 pm

It. Was. Epic.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on October 10, 2021, 07:35:55 pm

Sensational performance. Fury is an all time great Heavyweight in my opinion, and it's reasonable to suggest he would have been a problem in any past era.

He's a great boxer and he's also a great fighter. After getting clipped fury only knows how to bite down on his gumshield and fight back harder. Until recently I've thought his only weakness to be his offense, but over recent fights he's removed any doubt there too. Great all round and a massive beast of a man!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: tim palmer on October 10, 2021, 11:05:59 pm

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on October 10, 2021, 07:35:55 pm

Fury is an all time great Heavyweight in my opinion, and it's reasonable to suggest he would have been a problem in any past era.

Really? Wilder is not a great boxer but has one great punch and seemed to make in roads with his jab, Lennox Lewis would have destroyed him surely

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on October 11, 2021, 10:26:51 am

Quote from: tim palmer on October 10, 2021, 11:05:59 pm

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on October 10, 2021, 07:35:55 pm
Fury is an all time great Heavyweight in my opinion, and it's reasonable to suggest he would have been a problem in any past era.

Really? Wilder is not a great boxer but has one great punch and seemed to make in roads with his jab, Lennox Lewis would have destroyed him surely

Fury has convincingly beat all styles. Interesting you use Lewis as the comparison; head-to-head I rate Lewis as the best of all time. But lets go through with it anyway and put Fury in that era, which is either the strongest or second strongest heavyweight era of all time. Of course anyone can win on any given night but here's how I think he'd fare:

Holyfield - Fury uses his fast feet and 7 inch reach advantage and keeps it long, which he has shown he can do against better outside fighters (e.g. Klitschko). Evander doesn't cut the ring off well enough to get inside often enough, and when he does he has a 6'8 270+lb man leaning on him who knows dirty boxing just as well. Fury UD.

Bowe - Bowe when on form was a well rounded fighter with few weaknesses and had good size for his day. It would be a hard fight to predict. Fury has shown to be more exceptional in more areas, has faster feet, feints too well, and is much bigger. I'd give Fury the nod.

Old Foreman - very strong and hard hitting but also very basic and extremely slow. Fury dances rings around him.

Tyson - Fast and incredible at cutting off the ring, but my controversial opinion is that he's vastly overrated. Who's his best win, Berbick? Spinks? He lost to all the best fighters he faced. Fury actually has better wins and is nearly a foot taller (and knows how to use his size, unlike AJ for example). I think it would look like Lewis vs Tyson, especially against 90's Tyson. Fury KO.

Lewis - Lewis could do it all, his only weakness was not having an iron chin, but he knows how to protect it when motivated and Fury isn't a massive puncher anyway. Cagey start turns to trench warfare, which both know how to do well. Lewis' power makes the difference. Lewis KO.

There were other top fighters of the 90's like Moorer, Mercer and Morrison but i'd pick Fury over all those too.

In other eras I think there's only Ali that i'd be reasonably confident in picking to beat Fury. Prime Wlad (he wasn't that far removed at all) and Vitali would be close fights. Usyk will be a tough fight too if it happens.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: tim palmer on October 11, 2021, 12:26:31 pm

I don't think he has faced sufficient quality to say he is amongst the greatest of all time (an old vlad is by far his best opposition). He has been lucky to make it this far unbeaten, that cut against Otto wallin :o, obviously he gets the benefit of the doubt within a fight but it does show he is vulnerable against modest opposition.

I think M Tyson's inside fighting might be very problematic.

As for holyfield/Bo I dunno, I think if you are going life and death with someone as limited as wilder with legs like bambie, against a well rounded individual who won't get so upset by the feints he would have even more problems.

Anyway it was great knock about fun on Saturday.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: tim palmer on October 11, 2021, 01:05:55 pm

Edit: Bo-> Bowe

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on October 11, 2021, 02:53:25 pm

Quote from: tim palmer on October 11, 2021, 12:26:31 pm

I don't think he has faced sufficient quality to say he is amongst the greatest of all time (an old vlad is by far his best opposition). He has been lucky to make it this far unbeaten, that cut against Otto wallin :o, obviously he gets the benefit of the doubt within a fight but it does show he is vulnerable against modest opposition.

I think M Tyson's inside fighting might be very problematic.

As for holyfield/Bo I dunno, I think if you are going life and death with someone as limited as wilder with legs like bambie, against a well rounded individual who won't get so upset by the feints he would have even more problems.

Anyway it was great knock about fun on Saturday.

I have to admit that his resume doesn't put him anywhere near the top 10 all time heavyweight list, but like Lewis, I rate him highly in hypothetical head-to-head match ups, which i'm aware is completely subjective, but still fun to discuss! It doesn't help that Fury is generally an unlikeable character, who contradicts himself from one sentence to the next and has offered some pretty awful views on women, homosexuals, etc when he was a younger man. But I can't deny his talent in a boxing ring.

Fury is his own worst enemy when it comes to boxing: he hasn't lived the life, and again, like Lewis, he often takes his eye off the ball, leading to life and death fights with the likes of Wallin, which was actually not a terrible performance in retrospect. If I remember correctly he didn't lose many rounds, and anyone can get cut or injured in a fight, but not all fighters have a seemingly unbreakable will to win at all costs like Fury has, including some of the greats. Fury switched stance and his game plan to protect the cut while still managing to be effective. Yes, luck was on his side that night but he did the right things to make that luck happen, where most fighters would have wilted.

For all his faults, Wilder hits damn hard and has been one of the most successful heavyweights in history at landing his nuclear bomb (41 KO's in 44 fights), which is a very good skill in itself. Ali, Holyfield, et al. certainly lost to worse fighters than Deontay Wilder. You really do have to nail Fury to the canvas to beat him, and this quality, combined with his gigantic size and reach, mobility, excellent stamina, slickness, and high ring IQ is what I think makes him a stylistic nightmare for almost anyone! I'm not saying he runs the gauntlet and beats everyone in his path, in fact I think he's likely to get knocked out before he retires, but no one would have an easy nights work.

Speaking of Wallin, I'm going to back the underdog again and pick him in the upcoming bout with Whyte. In addition to his recent respectable win over Brezeale, that would put him firmly in the top 10 list, if not quite top 5, making Fury's win look not so shabby after all. Lets see

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: tim palmer on October 11, 2021, 03:56:39 pm

Indeed, time will tell

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on October 11, 2021, 04:37:27 pm

I was reflecting on mind games the other day, and on how small things that we say or do inadvertedly reveal, at a second thought, a hidden truth.
Fury-Wilder III came to my mind: "Once and for all."
Well, I think that in accepting that caption Wilder was already defeated, because in case of his victory, they would have been 1-1-1 and they would have needed a fourth match. This third one was going to count once and for all only in case of Fury's victory, for the 2-1-0.
Just saying.
What about the above if Wilder had won?
Well he didn't.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: rich d on October 12, 2021, 04:08:28 pm

It was a really entertaining fight, but I thought it was at a pretty poor standard. Wilder looked gassed from round 3 onwards before he was knocked down. Fury looked rusty and ill prepared. Where it was great was the massive heart that both showed - although I do think that Wilder should have been pulled out of there much earlier (hopefully he's not been permanently damaged) but that was never going to happen after Breland getting sacked for making the right decision. The danger that Wilder showed even when in a zombie like state was nerve wracking. Fury should have listened to his corner and just "jabbed the mfkr"
Fury prepared and as switched on as in the second fight would have finished him much quicker.
There seems to be a lot of comment on how good Wilder was in the first round, I'm not sure, huge full power lunging jabs to the body that sapped his power and he then subsequently didn't throw another body shot all match seems a pretty poor strategy.
Good fight to watch, but I'm not sure all the fight for the ages stuff that has come out since will hold up, when Wilder could hardly stand up for 9 rounds through being gassed and Fury couldn't finish him off as he was really sloppy.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on February 19, 2022, 10:43:50 pm

Brook on points

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on February 19, 2022, 11:32:05 pm

Good fight.

Brook's a bit bilt!

Interesting stoppage, but no complaints that I've heard yet. No belts on the line.

Good to see some decent respect between the two of them at the end :thumbsup:

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on February 21, 2022, 10:22:29 pm

I didn't have a problem with the stoppage; It was a one sided fight and Khan was not far off getting knocked out.

Unsurprisingly I see Eubank Jr and Benn are chomping at the bit to get the Brook fight, but I'd like to see Brook retire on this win as, like Amir, he looked well past his best. Eubank and Benn couldn't have laced Brook's boots 5 years ago but I fear both would win now and have a name on their resumes that they don't deserve.

Despite having been a world champion I think Brook has underperformed in his career. He was very talented but Porter aside, he doesn't have the marquee wins and I think it's mainly because of poor matchmaking. What on earth was he thinking going up to middleweight to face prime Golovkin? I think the eye injury sustained in that fight was the beginning of the end for his career at the highest level.

This weekend, Josh Taylor is back out against undefeated Jack Catterall. I rate Taylor as Britain's best fighter right now and will be picking him to win. He's been out of the ring for a while though by his standards so we'll see if there's any ring rust!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on February 22, 2022, 02:49:17 am

Yes, I caught the back end of that. He's a great guy, and not a hype machine.

Didn't realise it was back in May though.

Funny about Kell Brook saying he doesn't like Eubank. Another boxer he doesn't like. Given how much he hated Khan, it's strange that he wanted his respect so much. Maybe if he wasn't driven by that as much, he'd have chosen more wisely ;) Khan was chasing names too of course with Alvarez.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on February 27, 2022, 06:52:26 am

Er.. bad split that.. for Jack Catterall.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on February 27, 2022, 08:51:03 am

That decision has corruption written all over it. Another bad look for boxing. Judge Ian John Lewis isn't even trying to hide his corruption anymore scoring that fight 114-111 for Taylor.

I went into the fight picking Taylor to win but had Catterall winning by 2 or 3 rounds. Catterall coasted a bit late on but even the most favourable scorecards for Taylor shouldn't have seen him winning the fight.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on February 27, 2022, 04:57:49 pm

Agreed.

Really gutting.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: DAVETHOMAS90 on March 01, 2022, 07:22:57 am

Of course, there are far more serious forms of combat for him to address, but you know just how much courage and conviction VK will have in his role as Mayor of Kyiv.

https://youtu.be/-RZunRB7zuA

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on March 07, 2022, 11:14:05 pm

A brave prediction, but I think Bivol will upset the odds and beat Canelo in May. I think it will be close (which means Canelo will get the decision), but I think Bivol will be the unofficial winner.

However, if Canelo does win this legitimately then it will be his best win for me. A quality fight.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on May 08, 2022, 07:16:54 am

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 07, 2022, 11:14:05 pm

A brave prediction, but I think Bivol will upset the odds and beat Canelo in May. I think it will be close (which means Canelo will get the decision), but I think Bivol will be the unofficial winner.

However, if Canelo does win this legitimately then it will be his best win for me. A quality fight.

Almost got this one right, except the judges picked the right fighter to win!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: mrjonathanr on May 08, 2022, 12:11:37 pm

Sounds like Álvarez was properly outclassed.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on August 11, 2022, 02:39:37 pm

Usyk v AJ rematch coming up. I'll go with Usyk late stoppage again for my prediction.

I'm hearing that it will be broadcast to Ukrainians for free through Usyk's YouTube channel. My second prediction is that there will be a lot of new Ukrainian IP addresses that night...

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on August 11, 2022, 02:51:24 pm

Usyk for me too

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on August 11, 2022, 03:40:49 pm

Usyk for me too

I am not convinced that Joshua is a natural fit with his new trainer, Robert Garcia, who isn't known for working with heavyweights. If Joshua had gone to Sugarhill Steward - who coached Fury's more aggressive approach for the second and third Wilder fights - I might convince myself he could implement a new, better game plan. E.g. less passive - use his height, weight and power to try to bully Usyk - might not work but at least it would be pro-active. As it is, unless Usyk's fitness really tanked while he was serving in the Ukraine, I just see a repeat of the first fight.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Moo on August 11, 2022, 07:12:04 pm

I think Joshua will come in heavier and bully him a lot more but I won’t be surprised if I’m proven wrong usyk is a class act.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: crzylgs on August 12, 2022, 11:25:34 am

Not this weekend but did any of you lot hear about the Eubank Jnr Vs Benn Jnr fight that is supposed to be happening?

Pretty shocking cash in on the nostalgia / legacy of their dad's fights, especially given they will be circumventing the usual rules as they naturally fight 2 weight classes apart. Really dangerous and a bad precedent imo. They had to bring in rules governing the amount of weight you can gain post re-hydration because there was a run of serious injuries and I think even fatalities in cases when a heavier fighter was able to shed a tonne of weight to make the weigh in, then come fight time had a significant size, weight + power advantage.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Moo on August 12, 2022, 12:10:51 pm

The celebrity ‘fight’ scene is an absolute shambles but who can see where it’ll ever end if people keep buying the pay per views :shrug:

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on August 12, 2022, 01:34:07 pm

Quote from: crzylgs on August 12, 2022, 11:25:34 am

Not this weekend but did any of you lot hear about the Eubank Jnr Vs Benn Jnr fight that is supposed to be happening?

Pretty shocking cash in on the nostalgia / legacy of their dad's fights, especially given they will be circumventing the usual rules as they naturally fight 2 weight classes apart. Really dangerous and a bad precedent imo. They had to bring in rules governing the amount of weight you can gain post re-hydration because there was a run of serious injuries and I think even fatalities in cases when a heavier fighter was able to shed a tonne of weight to make the weigh in, then come fight time had a significant size, weight + power advantage.

I'm not particularly interested in this fight, but despite being a 'proper, hardcore boxing fan' I might get caught up in the hype once it gets closer.

I don't dislike it on the grounds of them being in separate weight classes; there's a long history of fighters going up in weight to beat the bigger man. Former lightweight Sugar Ray Leonard moved up to (debatably) beat the greatest middleweight of all time in Marvin Hagler! Manny Pacquiao won world titles in 8 divisions, and more recently, Usyk moved up to overcome a 20lb disadvantage and win the world heavyweight titles against Joshua! I simply dislike the Eubank vs Benn fight because neither of them have proved themselves in their own divisions yet.

Eubank Jr's entire career has been smoke and mirrors. He's forever bleated on about wanting the Golovkin's of the world only to duck the fight when he had the chance and take an easier and less lucrative path. The one time he did step up to fight for a proper title against a somewhat world level operator in Groves, he lost comprehensively and looked utterly clueless in there. Benn isn't far behind. He's still on the upward trajectory, but for all of his 'anyone who wants it can get it' attitude, he's done a good job of giving it to precisely no one with a pulse! He's wanted no part of David Avanesyan, never mind the top challengers such as Jaron Ennis (possibly the best prospect in boxing right now). I'd give him close to zero chance against the current title holders at welterweight either.

So in a sense, this fight actually makes perfect sense for them both :lol:

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on August 21, 2022, 09:33:45 am

Usyk wins the rematch clearly, but he had to work for it. I scored the fight round by round and had it either 8-4 or 9-3 to Usyk, but there were a few close rounds. Still not enough for anyone to score it for Joshua - that judge was either corrupt or stupid.

Having said that, it was the best version of AJ that I've seen in the ring and I was nervous he might win after taking the first 3 rounds on my card! AJ's post fight meltdown was a shame because I think he gained a lot of respect losing in the manner he did against an all time great. On that performance, he's very clearly the best of the rest after Usyk and Fury.

What more can be said about Usyk? Olympic gold medalist, followed by an unprecedented run at cruiserweight, clearing out the division to become undisputed in 16 fights with all four of those title fights being in his opponents home country, to now becoming unified Heavyweight champion in the age of the 'superheavyweights' and rematch clauses - having to beat the champ twice to get away with the belts. Almost all other fighters at this level have the deck stacked in their favour to some degree but usyk has never been the so called A-side in a fight and done it all the hard way. Unfortunately he's now on the decline at 35 and isn't quite the magician he was 4 years ago against Gassiev, but time waits for no man.

Fury must come back and make the undisputed fight. I favour Fury in that fight but would be rooting for Usyk.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on August 21, 2022, 10:05:56 am

I'd favour Fury to beat Usyk but God I would want Usyk to win. Amazing performance from him, and so much heart.

AJ performed very well and I agree his rant was a shame but the pressure must be truly enormous and I am prepared to forgive a bit of daft behaviour

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: crzylgs on August 21, 2022, 10:13:14 am

Why is there always one judge who's been hitting the crack pipe?

EDIT:

Also, AJ's performance at the end was dreadful. Completely lost his head :/

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Moo on August 21, 2022, 10:50:01 am

The Usyk and fury fight has to happen now and after watching that fight I’d struggle to pick a winner.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on August 21, 2022, 11:30:28 am

Quote from: crzylgs on August 21, 2022, 10:13:14 am

Why is there always one judge who's been hitting the crack pipe?

I was fearing some pre-filled score cards after the previous two fights. Both were fairly close but imho the wrong man won - coincidentally the "house" fighter in both cases. The full extra minute of pretty much the only round that Badou Jack was finishing strong was particularly suspect. Sportswashing money seemingly doesn't stretch to a functional stopwatch!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on August 21, 2022, 11:33:33 am

Quote from: crzylgs on August 21, 2022, 10:13:14 am

Why is there always one judge who's been hitting the crack pipe?

EDIT:

Also, AJ's performance at the end was dreadful. Completely lost his head :/

£50k in the account ::)

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on August 21, 2022, 07:10:37 pm

Quote from: crzylgs on August 21, 2022, 10:13:14 am

Also, AJ's performance at the end was dreadful. Completely lost his head :/

I've watched this now and can't get too upset by it. Its professional sport, it means a lot to them, and he apologised within an hour. No harm done as far as I'm concerned. People criticised Joshua when he was too matey with Ruiz after he lost against him as well, its hard to please people.

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on August 21, 2022, 09:33:45 am

Still not enough for anyone to score it for Joshua - that judge was either corrupt or stupid.

Haven't watched it back yet but this seems unlikely; Steve Bunce scored it 7-5 for Joshua. Agree its a minority position though. Main disagreement seems to be over the first 4 rounds.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: mrjonathanr on September 17, 2022, 11:31:24 pm

No predictions on Canelo - Golovkin? It would be cool to see a last great performance from Golovkin but I suspect a points decision for Canelo is more likely.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on September 17, 2022, 11:58:26 pm

Quote from: mrjonathanr on September 17, 2022, 11:31:24 pm

No predictions on Canelo - Golovkin? It would be cool to see a last great performance from Golovkin but I suspect a points decision for Canelo is more likely.

Until he faced Bivol, Canelo on points was the safest bet in boxing, no matter who the opponent was! Looking at the score cards, they even tried to give him that fight too!

I'd love to see GGG leave it out of the judges hands this time, as per the 4th fight between Marquez and Pacquiao, but would have to agree with a genuine Canelo win being most likely at this stage. Time waits for no man, except Steve McClure.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on September 18, 2022, 12:00:17 am

Quote from: spidermonkey09 on August 21, 2022, 07:10:37 pm

Steve Bunce scored it 7-5 for Joshua

Just seen this. Outrageous!

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on March 04, 2023, 07:46:07 pm

Jon Jones vs Ciryl Gane for the heavyweight title in the UFC tonight.

After a 3 year lay off, now 35 years old and having put on 50lbs to move up in weight to fight at heavyweight for the first time, it should be impossible to win the title. But this is Jon Jones. Tonight he faces a prime heavyweight in Ciryl Gane who is naturally much bigger and stronger, has great speed and better striking credentials. But I still keep leaning towards the former light-heavyweight champ, Jones. He's a horrible person, probably a psychopath (literally) and has previously tested positive for PED's, but my god is he a talented fighter and it will be interesting to see if he can turn back the clocks and become the heavyweight champ.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Rocksteady on March 04, 2023, 08:33:11 pm

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 04, 2023, 07:46:07 pm

Jon Jones vs Ciryl Gane for the heavyweight title in the UFC tonight.

After a 3 year lay off, now 35 years old and having put on 50lbs to move up in weight to fight at heavyweight for the first time, it should be impossible to win the title. But this is Jon Jones. Tonight he faces a prime heavyweight in Ciryl Gane who is naturally much bigger and stronger, has great speed and better striking credentials. But I still keep leaning towards the former light-heavyweight champ, Jones. He's a horrible person, probably a psychopath (literally) and has previously tested positive for PED's, but my god is he a talented fighter and it will be interesting to see if he can turn back the clocks and become the heavyweight champ.

Yeah I back Jones. I think he is one of the most physically talented fighters ever to step into the Octogon. Both his brothers are in the NFL. He was a national wrestling champion at college.
He might get caught by Gane - but he has literally never been put down on the mat with a strike, he has an iron chin. I think Jones will have more options for the win with his wrestling and weird striking.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on March 04, 2023, 10:33:47 pm

Jones has proved repeatedly that one is a fool to bet again him. I think he'll take it.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on March 05, 2023, 09:22:52 am

Light work

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on March 05, 2023, 09:02:38 pm

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 05, 2023, 09:22:52 am

Light work

I'd love to watch the guy fight if only he wasn't a total cunt as well, because he truly is the most incredible MMA fighter of all time I think, up there with Khabib (now there's a fight if they could ever agree on a weight class).

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Rocksteady on March 05, 2023, 09:57:34 pm

Quote from: Wellsy on March 05, 2023, 09:02:38 pm

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 05, 2023, 09:22:52 am
Light work

I'd love to watch the guy fight if only he wasn't a total cunt as well, because he truly is the most incredible MMA fighter of all time I think, up there with Khabib (now there's a fight if they could ever agree on a weight class).

For me GSP is the G.O.A.T in MMA, maybe not as talented as those two, but the best fighting intelligence we've seen in MMA. Always fought the fight the other guy didn't want. Sometimes lost first time, but learned and improved each fight.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on March 06, 2023, 08:49:48 am

Quote from: Rocksteady on March 05, 2023, 09:57:34 pm

Quote from: Wellsy on March 05, 2023, 09:02:38 pm
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 05, 2023, 09:22:52 am
Light work

I'd love to watch the guy fight if only he wasn't a total cunt as well, because he truly is the most incredible MMA fighter of all time I think, up there with Khabib (now there's a fight if they could ever agree on a weight class).

For me GSP is the G.O.A.T in MMA, maybe not as talented as those two, but the best fighting intelligence we've seen in MMA. Always fought the fight the other guy didn't want. Sometimes lost first time, but learned and improved each fight.

The bold bit is something Jon has never really done, in fact he has usually fought the fight that he himself doesn't want! I always got the sense that Jon was just trying out anything that came to him on the spot, practiced or not! In contrast, the Dagestanis are 100% committed to getting the job done and embrace the grind. This is why they've had fewer close fights than Jon. GSP was probably somewhere in the middle mixing a bit of creativity in with his clear strengths.

However, I think Jon displayed shades of Khabib in the weekend's fight and he just got the job done. His physical prime is likely now in his rear view mirror and he's going to be fighting bigger men from here on.

For anyone who doesn't follow the UFC closely, Khamzat Chimaev is an extremely exciting newcomer with an absolutely wild style! The pace he sets here against a real opponent is ridiculous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aka-j1WXaIg&t

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on March 06, 2023, 09:14:45 am

Quote from: Rocksteady on March 05, 2023, 09:57:34 pm

Quote from: Wellsy on March 05, 2023, 09:02:38 pm
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 05, 2023, 09:22:52 am
Light work

I'd love to watch the guy fight if only he wasn't a total cunt as well, because he truly is the most incredible MMA fighter of all time I think, up there with Khabib (now there's a fight if they could ever agree on a weight class).

For me GSP is the G.O.A.T in MMA, maybe not as talented as those two, but the best fighting intelligence we've seen in MMA. Always fought the fight the other guy didn't want. Sometimes lost first time, but learned and improved each fight.

GSP is amazing and a very cool guy and by far my preference to watch, but I guess for me the difference is he could (and did) lose fights whereas Jones just... has anyone ever really made Jones truly work that hard? Machida is the most difficulty I can recall for him and he choked him out in the second round.

Khabib, similarly. Just dominated every fight. But don't get me wrong if you said "name your all time top three men's competitors" itd be Jones, Khabib and GSP. I just think "never lost, never even really got close to losing" is something unique.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on March 06, 2023, 09:20:21 am

Wellsy, I think you may have missed a few fights as he arguably lost against Reyes and Gustafsson 1. Khabib was more dominant but I'd still place Jones above him based on the names he has beaten.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Rocksteady on March 06, 2023, 09:26:31 am

Quote from: Wellsy on March 06, 2023, 09:14:45 am

Quote from: Rocksteady on March 05, 2023, 09:57:34 pm
Quote from: Wellsy on March 05, 2023, 09:02:38 pm
Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 05, 2023, 09:22:52 am
Light work

I'd love to watch the guy fight if only he wasn't a total cunt as well, because he truly is the most incredible MMA fighter of all time I think, up there with Khabib (now there's a fight if they could ever agree on a weight class).

For me GSP is the G.O.A.T in MMA, maybe not as talented as those two, but the best fighting intelligence we've seen in MMA. Always fought the fight the other guy didn't want. Sometimes lost first time, but learned and improved each fight.

GSP is amazing and a very cool guy and by far my preference to watch, but I guess for me the difference is he could (and did) lose fights whereas Jones just... has anyone ever really made Jones truly work that hard? Machida is the most difficulty I can recall for him and he choked him out in the second round.

Khabib, similarly. Just dominated every fight. But don't get me wrong if you said "name your all time top three men's competitors" itd be Jones, Khabib and GSP. I just think "never lost, never even really got close to losing" is something unique.

That's kind of what I mean re: GSP being the GOAT. It's a bit like Ali. He lost but he also had great fights against really top flight competition who were dominant forces in their era - Matt Hughes (side note - look up who is the worst MMA fighter to train with and he comes high up the list!)

Jon Jones I always felt just was in another league to his competition, which I suppose is a bit what makes a GOAT but is also a little bit uninteresting, kind of like Mayweather in boxing. Khabib I haven't watched enough of his fights. Most of his record seems to be made up of people I have never heard of. Last few fights were against top flight names which I watched and he just utterly dominated using his exceptional sambo skills.

I guess I feel if you put GSP in their weight classes he'd would have lost the first fight against them and then worked them out and come back and won all the rematches.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on March 06, 2023, 11:04:34 am

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on March 06, 2023, 09:20:21 am

Wellsy, I think you may have missed a few fights as he arguably lost against Reyes and Gustafsson 1. Khabib was more dominant but I'd still place Jones above him based on the names he has beaten.

Those are good examples that I forgot, although he was given the decision they were definitely v close. But like you said Jones takes it for me.

Could GSP have beaten Jones? Maybe. But my money would have been on Jones. Who knows though. And GSP would never come back, for good reason. What a guy! I love listening to him speak. "Most powerful bleau from a yooman bean!!!"

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on March 06, 2023, 02:44:44 pm

Quote from: Wellsy on March 06, 2023, 11:04:34 am

Could GSP have beaten Jones?

No chance. Too big, too athletic.

I'm not into hypothetical pound for pound discussions either where Fighter A and Fighter B are the same size in a parallel universe. People always take strength and power away from the bigger guy, forgetting to increase their speed, endurance and coordination to go alongside their new svelte stature.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on July 25, 2023, 10:36:57 pm

This afternoon I watched Inuoue vs Fulton. Weird watching boxing on a Tuesday afternoon, but that's Japan...

I picked Inuoue to win, but I was amazed by the outright dominance, especially given that he was moving up again to fight the number 1 guy in his 4th division. He won every second of the fight and then clinically knocked him out. It was the type of performance you would usually only expect to see against a journeyman or a gatekeeper at best, but this was against a prime, very good, proven champion. He will probably never be the same ('Jeff Lacey'd')

I've been impressed by Inuoue since I first watched him knock out former world champ Jamie McDonnell in one round (someone I actually sparred a couple of times back in the day and obviously got worked despite being much bigger than him). Inuoue has since gone on to be the most dominant and probably the best fighter in the sport for my money. 10/10 for power, speed, precision, skill, timing, ring IQ, and toughness - winning a UD after breaking his orbital bone in round 2 vs Donnaire. Compare that to Brook, Saunders and Dubois quitting (and rightly so) with the same injury in recent years!

This is a dangerous claim to make halfway through a boxers career, but I can't see him going down as anything other than an all time great when he hangs 'em up. The only problem he might have is making it look too easy to get fair recognition!
The winner of the much more popular Spence and Crawford fight this weekend is likely to get the Ring magazine's pound for pound honors, but a demolition job from either man still probably wouldn't surpass Inuoue in my ranking (although they'd be a close number 2 and I'm tentatively picking Crawford by decision)

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on July 25, 2023, 11:33:04 pm

Inuoue really is something else, his nickname is well earned. The fight against Donaire was one of my favourite ever tbh.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on July 26, 2023, 07:40:04 am

My fear with Inoue is that to get any more recognition, he has to fight at weights where he gets "out-bigged" by far less talented boxers. Admittedly, that hasn't mattered yet, and he has a solid frame so could possibly pack on weight without a loss of speed, but I remember feeling Roman Gonzalez and Loma were unbeatable...

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on July 26, 2023, 11:27:19 am

Id like to see him clean out 122, move to 126 and become undisputed again, with potentially a tactical move later in his career to pick up a strap at 130. 6 divisions is pretty outrageous! It puts into perspective what Pacquiao did, although Pac began fighting professionally as a malnourished teenager, so we're not comparing apples with apples.

Any predictions for Spence vs Crawford?

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on July 26, 2023, 09:10:56 pm

3-4 years ago I'd have said Spence vs Crawford was the best possible fight to be made in boxing. Now, it feels like an effort to be excited. I haven't really followed their fights since Spence's car crash and all the promotional problems at the time.

Based my on out-of-date knowledge, I reckon Spence is naturally bigger and has a physical advantage, but Crawford is more intelligent and spiteful - he just seems to like causing pain. So, I'm going for Crawford on points - whittling away Spence for a possibly controversial points victory (maybe one of those where it's a matter of do you prefer activity or efficiency).

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on August 27, 2023, 08:36:42 am

Usyk obviously the better boxer etc etc, but... Was that a low shot from Dubois or not...?

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on August 27, 2023, 10:25:03 am

I don't understand all the hysteria. Actually I do - boxing loves controversy.

Under the Queensbury Rules, the shot was a low blow. Whether it hit him in the testicles is beside the point. Shots to the bladder, pelvic region, thigh, etc are all illegal. Not a centimeter of glove was above the waistband on the skin. The highest area of the glove (thumb region) was below the waistband and therefore below the bellybutton. Considering the size of a 10oz glove on a heavyweight, the pinky side of the glove would have been perhaps 8 inches lower?

So after getting the facts out of the way, we can address all the points around it.

Did it hit him in the balls? Only Usyk knows that, but he immediately seemed to react as though it did, possibly before he would have had chance to realise he was hurt from a body shot and then fake a lowblow?

Would he have beaten the count if it wasn't ruled a lowblow? It didn't look like it, but Usyk is a true warrior and would never quit like Dubois did later in the fight so I wouldn't count him out. If he did make it up he has vastly better movement than anyone else in the division and it's possible he could have danced for a round or 2 until recovered.

After the shot, Usyk changed his usual style and seemed to be fighting with spite as though to get revenge. He hasn't really put it on someone like that since he was fighting men his own size back at cruiserweight.

Dubois did better than AJ? He fought more aggressively but I disagree. AJ lost an 8-4 decision. Dubois lost every round in my card (1 could have gone either way) got knocked down in 2 rounds and quit on his knee...

Exciting fight nonetheless.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on August 27, 2023, 11:38:04 am

Surely if it was low he should have been docked a point ? Don't really understand how it can be a bob each way.

Guess the definition of 'below the belt' is interesting, cause it implies that 'the belt' is ok and he got him flush on the waistband. Frampton seems pretty clear that he thought it was legal, is he just touting for clickbait?

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on August 27, 2023, 12:45:44 pm

https://www.foxsports.com.au/pmd/images/2023/08/27/865220_640x360_large_20230827102250.jpg

Tracing the waistband of his shorts, at least half of the glove is below it. All of the lettering on the glove is below the waistband and none of the glove is above the waistband. I wouldn't say Frampton was just looking for click bait, but he was invested in the fight, the British fighter, and his call on the shot, which he made before seeing the replay as far as I could tell. Emotions during a live fight are high and could have had an impact.

Regarding a point deduction, it didn't look intentional to me, so perhaps that figured into the referees judgement? Also, Dubois wasn't winning that fight on points by hook or by crook, so it wouldn't have been important.

Either way, it's unlucky for Dubois. They are petitioning for the decision to be overturned but this is unlikely based on precedence. Based on Usyk winning almost every minute of the fight and getting the stoppage I can't see Dubois getting the win in a rematch. With another ref on another night he might have got lucky but that's sport. The only potential blemish in Usyks career so far.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Aussiegav on August 28, 2023, 09:24:32 pm

Usyk won hands down. Technically it was a low blow. Bearing in mind, the referee had a split second to call it, it was a good call, a very difficult and big call.
Dubois wasted the opportunity by not going after Usyk for the rest of the round and then ultimately quit.

I think Usyk beats all the top heavyweights. Too smart and too technical. It was good to see him show a bit of fire too. Im sure he’ll work out how to get past Fury. Fury has no knockout power.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on August 30, 2023, 08:59:09 am

It's interesting to see how the 'low blow controversy' has developed over the last few days.

Ex pro fighters seem to be split 50/50 on whether they think it was a genuine shot or a low blow; however, any pundit who has taken time to draw lines on the photograph of the shot and quote the actual rules clearly demonstrates it is unambiguously a low blow. The shot was below the naval, case closed.

The other day I said that Frampton probably wasn't looking for clickbait but perhaps just got the initial call wrong then doubled down. I might have changed my mind on that. On the basis that around half the pro fighters who have given an opinion have gotten it wrong, I think most of them really must be doing it for attention, or they have an agenda (somehow relating it to their own fights/careers). The former happens all the time. David Haye and Johnny Nelson often make wild statements to get headlines, and fighters are notorious for having brittle egos, so the latter would not surprise me either.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on November 16, 2023, 10:01:01 am

Any boxing fans will probably have noticed the algorithm pushing this 23rd December Saudi card down their throats as the best card of all time (with an abundance of all hail "his excellency" Turki Alalshikh bootlicking comments from everyone involved).

I'd say it's a good card, but not as great as advertised. There's a lot of big names not fighting each other and it's mostly filled with mismatches. The two co-main events are ok, but it's very disappointing to see AJ and Wilder on the same card not fighting each other. My review

AJ vs Wallin - Wallin isn't a bad fighter, but AJ beat him twice in the amateurs and is simply better. Wallin is a tough, rangy, awkward southpaw, so from the perspective that fans are desperate to see the 'old AJ' this is likely to further advance AJ's reputation as a safety first fighter as he wins a UD.

Wilder vs Parker - This is probably the best fight on the card. I'm going against the grain here and picking Parker. Wilder is 38 year old fighter who relies on his attributes, has no fundamentals, and has fought one round in two years. As mediocre as Parker can be, Wilder has arguably never beaten a better fighter in his protected career.

Bivol vs Arthur - Arthur has a decent win over Yarde (before losing the rematch), but Bivol is the best fighter on the card and will win easily.

Opetaia vs Zorro - A formality for Opetaia

Makhmudov vs Kabayel - A formality for Makhmudov

Hrgovic vs DeMori - Give me a break. This is the same Mark DeMori that a washed up David Haye knocked out 8 years ago.

Sanchez vs Fa - A formality for Sanchez

Dubois vs Miller - the 2nd best fight on the card. Juiced up Miller is durable, has a high work rate, and will stick it on the mentally fragile yet technically much better and more powerful Dubois. This is a good 50-50 fight.

This is the card it should have been:

AJ vs Wilder
Hrgovic vs Makhmudov
Sanchez vs Parker
Dubois vs Miller

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on November 16, 2023, 07:55:10 pm

I'm definitely watching for Wilder vs Parker. I don't think it'd really be an upset if Parker won, but it certainly would get reported as one.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: tim palmer on November 17, 2023, 09:15:12 pm

I think it seems extremely improbable that parker will be able to avoid getting knocked out by wilder seeing as he wasn't able to illude Joe joyce of all people.

I could see Joshua losing, wallin is fundamentally sound and timed fury, don't think the amateur results mean anything this far down the line. But it will probably be a turgid and dodgy points decision for AJ. I would like wallin to win really.

The rest is sports washing one sided rubbish, the Miller fight at least has a freakshow element.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on November 18, 2023, 08:57:49 am

I wouldn't be surprised if the bill is rearranged when Miller inevitably tests positive for PEDs.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on November 20, 2023, 09:15:00 am

Quote from: tim palmer on November 17, 2023, 09:15:12 pm

I think it seems extremely improbable that parker will be able to avoid getting knocked out by wilder seeing as he wasn't able to illude Joe joyce of all people.

I could see Joshua losing, wallin is fundamentally sound and timed fury, don't think the amateur results mean anything this far down the line. But it will probably be a turgid and dodgy points decision for AJ. I would like wallin to win really.

The rest is sports washing one sided rubbish, the Miller fight at least has a freakshow element.

Re Wilder vs Parker: you're right, I've gone back on this. I'd focused too much on Wilder's abysmal resume and not taken into account Parker's, which is almost as bad. Wilder has only ever beaten one ranked opponent (going by The Ring rankings, not the corrupt alphabet title organisations) and that was a past it Ortiz, who might have actually won that fight if the doctor didn't step in to give Wilder a 30 second break while out on his feet. Parker has beaten better opponents, but his best win came 7 years ago against Ruiz, and that could have gone either way. Both are unproven at the top level, but Wilder has looked far more devastating against lower opposition.

I don't really like AJ or Wallin, but I think AJ does everything better than him except for confidence. Everyone underrates Joshua now because he's not the force he once was, but he's still been easily outboxing everyone not named Usyk. I see this being a wide UD or late stoppage.

And now for the fight that matters: Usyk split decision win against Fury

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: tim palmer on November 20, 2023, 10:23:32 am

Quote from: Liamhutch89 on November 20, 2023, 09:15:00 am

Re Wilder vs Parker: you're right, I've gone back on this. I'd focused too much on Wilder's abysmal resume and not taken into account Parker's, which is almost as bad.

Wilder did fight fury 3 times and was at least competitive once so I think he is far more proven than AJ.

Quote

Everyone underrates Joshua now because he's not the force he once was, but he's still been easily outboxing everyone not named Usyk.

And an in shape Andy ruiz who beat him up badly. AJ has been beaten by lesser opposition than Wilder.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: moose on November 20, 2023, 10:45:44 am

I like the exchange the boxing writer, Brin Jonathan Butler, had with his former trainer before the first Fury fight:

Wilder is 40-0 as a pro with 39 knockouts, but he came to the sport late. How do his skills compare with Breland’s when he was a prodigiously gifted amateur boxer?

Breland’s eyes follow Wilder pacing around the gym. He folds his thin arms across his chest and absent mindedly leans back so you can appreciate how freakish a task it must have been to fight a man at 147 pounds who stands at 6 feet, 2½ inches. Gradually, a mischievous grin curls Breland’s lips.

“He’s at about where I was at 11.”

“11?”

“11 or 12,” he concedes, turning it over some more. “But you gotta remember, he’s a heavyweight in today’s era. And you seen how he can punch. If you can bang? Hell, that’s enough now. And you seen what his right hand can do. He can bang.”

https://andscape.com/features/can-deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-restore-the-glory-days-of-heavyweight-boxing-in-the-us/ (https://andscape.com/features/can-deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-restore-the-glory-days-of-heavyweight-boxing-in-the-us/)

Wilder he can bang... that's pretty much all he can do - but it's usually enough.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: tim palmer on November 20, 2023, 10:50:05 am

Yes, BJB is a great writer and pundit.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on November 20, 2023, 11:12:15 am

His right hand is usually enough against stiffs!

I don't know who wins between AJ and Wilder and I don't care that much anymore; it's no longer a meaningful fight, but gun to my head I'd go with the more proven and younger AJ.

AJ's top 5 wins are 40 year old Wlad, unbeaten Whyte, Ruiz, unbeaten Parker, and nearly 40 year old Povetkin. Hardly a murderers row, but it's somehow still a lot better than Wilder's top 5 wins. After Ortiz, there's a very long list of journeymen and I can't pick another 4 good fighters. Both have shaky whiskers and more than enough power to knock each other out. AJ's has good fundamentals and power in both hands, but he struggles to pull the trigger. Wilder is full of confidence, but he can't box and seems to have poor stamina these days. I'd probably pick Hrgovic to beat both of them now and he's no world beater either.

Thank god we have talents like Inoue in the lighter divisions. Usyk is still great too despite getting old.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Wellsy on November 20, 2023, 11:56:35 am

Yeah for me Wilder's resume is weak. Ortiz is fair, but other than that? And he has barely fought of late, prior to Helenius he was just losing to Fury.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: spidermonkey09 on December 24, 2023, 08:54:11 am

That loss for Wilder was years in the making. He was lucky it didn't happen against Ortiz. Does that make Fury's legacy look even less impressive?

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on December 24, 2023, 10:09:39 am

Agreed, Fury's reputation/CV took quite a hit! Fury's reputation since his comeback has largely been based on circular reasoning: he beat Wilder, so Wilder must be good and therefore Fury is great. I think that circular logic just came a bit unstuck.

Firstly, Wilder got shut out by the first proven opponent he's faced in Parker. Ortiz was never really proven and was rated via similar circular reasoning having given Wilder a tough fight, which he might actually have won without the doctor shenanigans. Second, Fury went life and death with Wallin, who just got utterly destroyed by Joshua. On the flip side, Usyk's CV just received a boost via Joshua and Dubois both looking great.

I don't fully buy into the narrative I've just laid out; styles make fights and I think there's an aspect of Joshua and Parker finally just putting in long-overdue good performances. But make no mistake, it's not looking good for Fury, especially after struggling with an MMA fighter. However, Fury's most underrated recent win is Whyte. That was a demolition job against a worthy mandatory.

I thought Usyk would become the man at heavyweight before he'd even unified the cruiserweight division and I'm picking him to beat Fury, but as an Usyk fanboy I'm probably not the best person to listen to. If Fury and Usyk do a rematch, it's likely that the IBF will strip the winner as the mandatory is long overdue. That means it will probably be Hrgovic Vs Joshua for the paper title. Good fight but it would be silly to consider the winner a real champion.

Dubois Vs Parker would be a good fight, but probably makes little sense for either fighter on the risk / reward spectrum unless the Saudi's are going to pay well for it.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on December 27, 2023, 04:28:59 pm

I didn't particularly enjoy Joshua's performance: he did the job but was static and flat footed as usual. Wallin basically didn't throw anything with bad intentios and didn't belong in that ring. Good performance but against a mediocre (for world level arenas) fighter.
Bivol was as usual a machine.
Wilder put up a terrible show during and after the fight, very good match from Parker and another of many confirmations that Wilder has been hyped beyond measure. The "I want a body on my record" is still unforgivable.
I really liked Dubois's performance against an unpleasant trash talker, banned numerous times for PEDs. Glad for Dubois, although he seems to still lack that killing instinct for the category. He ate a few punches with no big fuss so props to him, he seems a really good guy.
And then there was the boxing day treat: Naoya Inoue.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: User deactivated. on December 27, 2023, 05:23:51 pm

Yep. Inoue is the best fighter in the sport for my money.

Title: Re: There’s a bloke fighting this weekend
Post by: Nibile on March 09, 2024, 08:11:26 am

Well well well...

NSFW :

UKBouldering.com

the shizzle => news => Topic started by: moose on September 23, 2021, 10:20:47 pm