UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: weakdave on January 08, 2015, 02:59:00 pm
-
My is shocking but i find stretching really boring. Does anyone have any alternative stretching routines that will keep me interested and flex me up?
-
My is shocking but i find stretching really boring. Does anyone have any alternative stretching routines that will keep me interested and flex me up?
I find watching videos of attractive people doing yoga interesting. :)
But like you I find stretching rather dull.. I do a few mins then just make sure I do lots and lots of easy problems (stretch whilst climbing as it were..).
-
Stick a tv show/ted talk/film on and multitask works for me (a bit)
-
What exercises should we be doing? Particularly core and shoulder as these aren't the ones you learn in PE where everything seems to be about arms and legs.
-
Stick a tv show/ted talk/film on and multitask works for me (a bit)
totally agree with this, I aim for about a 30 min episode of something to give a decent amount of stretching.
Regarding what I usually aim for legs as these make the most difference in climbing
theres some on the beastmaker site here http://www.beastmaker.co.uk/pages/neds-flexy-madness (http://www.beastmaker.co.uk/pages/neds-flexy-madness)
other things I'd aim for are hip flexors and glutes
-
subscribe to (NSFW) perfectflex.com (NSFW)
that should motivate you
-
subscribe to (NSFW) perfectflex.com (NSFW)
that should motivate you
wasn't sure what NSFW stands for, clicked on the link at work... now know what it stands for.
-
Surely yoga is the answer?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CKkE9hfoNXs (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CKkE9hfoNXs)
-
Perfectflex.com should be NSFWWINTYOS (not suitable for when wife is next to you on sofa)😊
-
Are there any decent free yoga downloads? I cant access youtube when i am away with work.
-
Are there any decent free yoga downloads? I cant access youtube when i am away with work.
I am using yoga studio app - think that it is pretty good
http://yogastudioapp.com (http://yogastudioapp.com)
15 minutes stretching routines, plus longer ones
Beginner and more advanced routines
Balance, strength and more general routines.
Download content to iPad.
Was a few £'s on iTunes.
Hit play and follow routines - nice and easy! :2thumbsup:
-
Is a similar android version available?
-
Is a similar android version available?
Hi Dave, sorry don't know that.
Think it might be apple only.
Will have a look and get back to you.
Maybe somebody on ukb has an android version?
-
Yoga done correctly will make you flexible, 6000 years of refinement should ensure that.
I don't think great flexibility tallies with great climbing most of the time. I think it does with good health as you age though.
-
Brad Appleton is a software engineer who for some reason has put together a comprehensive stretching resource and manual. I've seen lots of coaches (S&C coaches, not climbing) reference this a great resource.
http://www.bradapp.com/docs/rec/stretching/ (http://www.bradapp.com/docs/rec/stretching/)
There's loads in there if you really want to get stuck in. Check the section on 'Stretching to Increase Flexibility':
http://www.bradapp.com/docs/rec/stretching/stretching_5.html#SEC60 (http://www.bradapp.com/docs/rec/stretching/stretching_5.html#SEC60)
He basically suggests that you do a little bit of stretching every day, with more intensive work every other day. After 2 months he thinks you will be maxed out. The document contains lots of very specific detail on how to stretch in different ways and for different purposes.
Personally I've found that 10 minutes every climbing session and a bit more once per week makes a huge difference, and seems to make my hams, hips and knees much less prone to tweaks. Not sure it improves performance as such, apart from maybe on high-stepping frog moves where there's a definite correlation. Quite a bit of my stretching is based on movement/ mobility drills with a focus on hips - I haven't properly tested, but always feel that this is the stuff that makes the biggest day-to-day impact.
-
"Ya, we're not big into stretching. I'm super in-flexible. There are situations where flexiblility matters, but the vast majority of the time I think it pales in comparison to finger strength and footwork. It's probably a good idea to stretch a bit in the interest of maintaining your existing flexibility, since your flexibility decreases as you age. Actually I think climbing is pretty good "active stretching" in its own right, so you might be ok without dedicating time to stretching."
I'm thinking is that Mr Andersson never been to Buoux... or any other classic pied-main-crag.
Btw, have you noticed how much more often the new generation (especially the elite in the world cup) use really high foot holds, even on steep rock, than climbers in our generation do?
-
not as comprehensive as the above link, but it has pictures and is pretty funny to read.
http://www.trickstutorials.com/index.php?page=content%2Fflx3 (http://www.trickstutorials.com/index.php?page=content%2Fflx3)
-
Was looking at the koala pictures and wondering why OP was answering himself... and then realized there are two ukbers who indpendently decided to use koalas as icons.
I've been doing yoga consistently for about 2 months now , one to three times a week. I was doing it for my shoulders and posture, but a major side effect is that my flexibility is miles better than when I started. i dont know if flexibility is essential for climbing but it doesnt hurt.
The cool thing about yoga is that it seems to give more active flexibility which is the more useful kind. Since it also helps with posture etc. I'd say it's a much better use of your time than dedicated stretching. plus it feels good to do, so a lot easier to stick with long term.
worst case scenario you're in class with a bunch of hot chicks in spandex. best case scenario you have better flexibility, posture, and a hot yoga girlfriend.
-
Stretching to improve flexibility?
Stretching as a warm up / warm down?
Stretches to adress muscular imbalances / improve posture?
I think they all need something different.
-
I posted this on andy_e's question about foam roller.
Thought it might be of use here too
A good place to start is look at anything by Kelly Starrett.
http://www.mobilitywod.com/episodes/page/7/ (http://www.mobilitywod.com/episodes/page/7/)
There is a load of stuff on youtube as well as a few books.
He is massive in us, regarding stretching/ mobility, cross-fit etc.
He has performed in the US Olympic team in the canoe.
So knows a thing or two about stretching/training.
The foam roller is used mainly to aid recovery/stretch.
Although like you when you roll you i do seem to engage the core.
Don't have anything specific for climbing though.
Hope this helps
jfdm
-
This Meta study may be the final nail in the coffin of stretching for any reason beyond maintaining flexibility.
http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2014/07/20/exercises-to-prevent-sports-injuries-lots-of-talk-but-do-they-work/
Not read the paper yet but this synopsis is fairly clear.
-
This Meta study may be the final nail in the coffin of stretching for any reason beyond maintaining flexibility.
http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2014/07/20/exercises-to-prevent-sports-injuries-lots-of-talk-but-do-they-work/ (http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2014/07/20/exercises-to-prevent-sports-injuries-lots-of-talk-but-do-they-work/)
Not read the paper yet but this synopsis is fairly clear.
Thats a letter in response to an original article which is a meta-analysis and can be found at....
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/48/11/871.full?sid=19efc261-b870-4eaa-88c0-31fda65de99f (http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/48/11/871.full?sid=19efc261-b870-4eaa-88c0-31fda65de99f)
The synopsis of this letter, which is calling into question the conclusion the authors of the meta-analysis state, is that there isn't sufficient evidence to say either way whether stretching has benefits. From the letter (emphasis is mine)...
Was it a nail in the coffin for stretching exercises? Stretching did not prevent injuries, whether done before or after training. However, this analysis included only two studies on army recruits and one internet-based study on the general population, so more data are badly wanted.2-4 Stretching may serve other purposes, and it may still be relevant for the upper extremity, but NOT for injury prevention of lower extremity exercises. It may be helpful in specific cases if there has been a previous injury. But today, there is no evidence supporting stretching for injury prevention.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence! For strength training they included 23 studies which gives a far larger body of evidence to assess the effects. To say that the two assessments (strength and stretching) are equal would be wrong.
Complete aside, but the forest plots and meta-analysis conducted in the original paper used program for Stata (statistical software) that my current line manager wrote.
(I've added the reference to the Wiki and the sticky thread on articles training & resources in this sub-forum).
-
I've found, for me, the most overlooked aspect of climbing whether outdoors or indoors, even on a 50 degree board, is the pretty in your face fact that all the good/best climbers have very flexible hips! It's only taken me 20 yrs to work this out!!! >:(
Maybe since most of them say they're not very flexible etc. They are and it makes a world of difference
-
I've found, for me, the most overlooked aspect of climbing whether outdoors or indoors, even on a 50 degree board, is the pretty in your face fact that all the good/best climbers have very flexible hips! It's only taken me 20 yrs to work this out!!! >:(
Maybe since most of them say they're not very flexible etc. They are and it makes a world of difference
Ed Gow-Smith, our local and tres youthful cranking machine, has the flexibility of a Rugby post.
Bugger just Campuses through anything that might require a high step...
Edit.
On a serious note.
I find that I seem to remain rather flexible, despite not regularly stretching.
I wonder if it is more a Genetic thing, at it's core, than a matter of training?
Being flexible has not prevented me from injuring myself, that much I am sure of.
Of course, perhaps there would have been many more injuries, had I been less supple.
-
I've found, for me, the most overlooked aspect of climbing whether outdoors or indoors, even on a 50 degree board, is the pretty in your face fact that all the good/best climbers have very flexible hips! It's only taken me 20 yrs to work this out!!! >:(
Maybe since most of them say they're not very flexible etc. They are and it makes a world of difference
I'd agree with this. its a very specific flexibility in the hips and often shoulders as well.
-
I've found, for me, the most overlooked aspect of climbing whether outdoors or indoors, even on a 50 degree board, is the pretty in your face fact that all the good/best climbers have very flexible hips! It's only taken me 20 yrs to work this out!!! >:(
Maybe since most of them say they're not very flexible etc. They are and it makes a world of difference
i agree, many good climbers might not be able to touch their toes, because they never need to do that (except maybe in boulder comps) , but the ability to move your legs and feet while your centre of gravity stays close to the wall requires hip flexibility.
-
Here I feel I must invoke that font of all climbing knowledge: "The Thing" (I'm paraphrasing) Stretching - "Robin Barker can't touch his toes. Robin Barker climbs 8b. Fuck stretching"
-
Different strokes for different folks... we're all different and use different attributes to get to the top of a problem. If you can campus it, huzzah but somebody else wont be able to and will need / want capability to bend and contort the body into 'interesting' shapes to achieve the same. The more tools in your toolbox the better (didn't some coach somewhere make that shit up?)... anyway I agree with some of the others flexibility in the hips is usually something blokes need to improve. A google search will show you a few moves to help in those areas you want to work, they might be yoga or they might just be stretches either way google and youtube.
During a core workout, in-between sets I do stretches.
Wrists.
Crouching frog position thing.
Then a yoga rising sun sequence - look it up.
Repeat twice and then do more core sets.
At the end I also put the soles of my feet together while sitting with my back against a wall and move the feet towards my hips.
I found that my body will move to a certain point and then at its limit it seems to think it cant go further, almost like it says, don't go further it will hurt/injure. By stretching I've move the limit further and its helped especially on slab balance/tight problems.
enjoy.
-
It's not different strokes for different folks, that's the whole point. If you're more flexible in the hips climbings easier, stronger fingers climbings easier, stronger core climbings easier etc etc. now if you were good in all these areas climbing would be even easier.
I'm not talking about someone sat there having a little stretch whilst watching tv, I'm saying all the good/best climbers I've seen have flexible hips. I don't think it's coincidence
-
Here I feel I must invoke that font of all climbing knowledge: "The Thing" (I'm paraphrasing) Stretching - "Robin Barker can't touch his toes. Robin Barker climbs 8b. Fuck stretching"
I can't touch my toes, but I've got quite flexible hips. What you see and reality are often two different things.
It's my hamstrings and calves that are tight. If I did more slab climbing, i'm sure I'd get the calves sorted quickly enough.
-
Its a funny one - I can see how if you are at the top of the game - doing bouldering comps etc... then this is an important aspect to work on..
For me, a mid 7's punter (on a good day), I've hardly ever felt that my inflexibility has held me back - much more often I have felt that I have lacked strength (fingers, core, arms). If I find I'm being held back by flexibility - I tend to just go and do a different problem!!
-
It is a funny one, as a lack of flexibility can/will often present itself indirectly.
I sometimes work the the youth team here locally, and one of the exercises we have them do is trying to do no hands rests on a vertical wall. Typically this will involve a decent foot to rock onto. If you've got good hip flexibility, you can get your body tight to the wall, and it's quite amazing what you can balance on this way. if you don't have the flexibility, you can't.
So on this trip to bishop, you know the one where I did Mandala, Megos was there working Lucid and about 4-5 of us were having a play on Evilution. He was giving all of us shit because we were all having to jump our foot up to the start hold, and it's a very glassy precise foot. And here's this guy who's a good 3 inches shorter than all of us, and he just reaches his foot up and places it precisely on the hold, then pulls off the ground.
Made me think a bit more. I've got decent hip flexibility, but have always had tight hamstrings/calves. Figured it's an easy thing to work on :)
PS - Nibs-was that how I should be tossing that in there. Or was that too obvious :)
-
For me, a mid 7's punter (on a good day), I've hardly ever felt that my inflexibility has held me back - much more often I have felt that I have lacked strength (fingers, core, arms). If I find I'm being held back by flexibility - I tend to just go and do a different problem!!
I'm a low 6's punter - but I'm pretty sure it was lack of flexibility in the hips that stopped me on the crux of The Tempest at Rivelin, in December. At the time, my initial reaction was "how can I ever pull on those smeary crimps?" With a bit more thought, it was actually the fact I couldn't open my hips enough to get my foot on the small break and push with my legs. My center of gravity moved out because my hips had to... ping, I was off.
Yoga has shown me that I'm pretty flexible and strong at certain thing (like Cobra) but my hamstrings and calves are solid and my hips just don't want to open up. I've worked on my hamstrings for years - got nowhere and I think my are just short or something. I never pulled a hamstring in years of football and rugby, so they must be strong, it's their flexibility that's the issue.
-
So on this trip to bishop, you know the one where I did Mandala,
PS - Nibs-was that how I should be tossing that in there. Or was that too obvious :)
Ahahahahahah!
That's perfect. But I like it more when it's tossed more randomly, as in the "Have you seen a good movie" thread.
"You know, a few weeks ago, the night I did The Mandala, we didn't watch any quality movie, because, you know, we were in Bishop. Where I had climbed The Mandala. You know..."
-
For me, a mid 7's punter (on a good day), I've hardly ever felt that my inflexibility has held me back - much more often I have felt that I have lacked strength (fingers, core, arms). If I find I'm being held back by flexibility - I tend to just go and do a different problem!!
I'm a low 6's punter - but I'm pretty sure it was lack of flexibility in the hips that stopped me on the crux of The Tempest at Rivelin, in December. At the time, my initial reaction was "how can I ever pull on those smeary crimps?" With a bit more thought, it was actually the fact I couldn't open my hips enough to get my foot on the small break and push with my legs. My center of gravity moved out because my hips had to... ping, I was off.
That's exactly what I was trying to get at earlier. Perfect example.
Yoga has shown me that I'm pretty flexible and strong at certain thing (like Cobra) but my hamstrings and calves are solid and my hips just don't want to open up. I've worked on my hamstrings for years - got nowhere and I think my are just short or something. I never pulled a hamstring in years of football and rugby, so they must be strong, it's their flexibility that's the issue.
Yeah, that's sort of what I've found too. They're plenty strong, just really tight. I think I may have some fascia/scarring issues to sort out though.
So on this trip to bishop, you know the one where I did Mandala,
PS - Nibs-was that how I should be tossing that in there. Or was that too obvious :)
Ahahahahahah!
That's perfect. But I like it more when it's tossed more randomly, as in the "Have you seen a good movie" thread.
"You know, a few weeks ago, the night I did The Mandala, we didn't watch any quality movie, because, you know, we were in Bishop. Where I had climbed The Mandala. You know..."
Righto. I'll work on that. Let's see - coffee, whiskey, politics, biking, movies, books, photography, video.... I should definitely be able to work it into just about any thread :)
-
I spent years stretching trying to open up my hips and legs a bit more through normal stretches with little effect. Once I started Olympic lifting and doing wall squats as a warm up and particularly deep overhead squats with a weighted bar I gained more flexibility in my legs and hips (and shoulders/back) in four weeks than I'd done in ten years of stretching on the floor. It was a real eye (and hip) opener... It might have just been me, but the difference was totally gobsmacking.
-
Its a funny one - I can see how if you are at the top of the game - doing bouldering comps etc... then this is an important aspect to work on..
For me, a mid 7's punter (on a good day), I've hardly ever felt that my inflexibility has held me back - much more often I have felt that I have lacked strength (fingers, core, arms). If I find I'm being held back by flexibility - I tend to just go and do a different problem!!
I got a schooling following a forum member up a slate 7something (French), when I did the rockover in question I really was struggling, when he did it, well, he wasn't.
We took a while to try and work out why and concluded that it was hip flexibility. He was so much closer to the rock than me on the move and on the ground we could see why, my hips just wouldn't 'do that'.
I can't touch my toes and Nat can (easily) yet I can get my feet way higher than her.
-
Paul's example is kind of my point - ok so you were shown up on a slate 7... How often do you climb slate 7's?
Sasq, I totally agree that getting hips closer to the rock will help in many more situations than those where more obvious flexibility issues stonewall you from something.. But there are ways you can (and do) to get around this that can work just as well ie Egyptians, drop knees, side instead of face onto problems..
-
Stop talking shit and lowering things to your standard saying there are always ways around things! Start stretching your hips out and you'll be able to climb 7a more readily, same if you climb 6a or 8a or 9a.
Next time I'll point out all the best climbers I've seen are obese
-
I have terrible hip flexibility and it is definitely a limiting factor at my mediocre level. As an example, I nearly flashed Live By The Sword, a Portland 7a+, with a good sequence though to the right gaston. At this point you just have to [beta!] hitch up your left foot onto a smear by your knee and rock up. My foot landed a few cm short and of course off I came.
Unfortunately there seems to be very little I can do about it as attempts to stretch just make my joints sore.
-
For me, a mid 7's punter (on a good day), I've hardly ever felt that my inflexibility has held me back
Right Tom, so flexibility has never been as issue.......
If I find I'm being held back by flexibility - I tend to just go and do a different problem!!
Apart from the problems you can't do because you are too inflexible?
This always comes down to the fact climbing requires one to be good at lots of things and the best way to improve is to work weaknesses. If flexibilty is a weakness, work it.
-
Stop talking shit and lowering things to your standard saying there are always ways around things! Start stretching your hips out and you'll be able to climb 7a more readily, same if you climb 6a or 8a or 9a.
Next time I'll point out all the best climbers I've seen are obese
Ok I may be trying to lower things to justify my own inflexibility :) but.. Weight, Strength are factors that you cannot change (rapidly - as in a day..) and are very difficult to adapt around... Whereas flexibility often is something that can be worked around - quickly with different technique.
I think a better comparison would be with height...
Are all the best climbers you've seen tall, medium or short? I bet they're a mix of all those...
-
For me, a mid 7's punter (on a good day), I've hardly ever felt that my inflexibility has held me back
Right Tom, so flexibility has never been as issue.......
If I find I'm being held back by flexibility - I tend to just go and do a different problem!!
Apart from the problems you can't do because you are too inflexible?
This always comes down to the fact climbing requires one to be good at lots of things and the best way to improve is to work weaknesses. If flexibilty is a weakness, work it.
I agree it's a weakness and maybe I should work it - but at the moment (assuming I have a functioning back) my biggest weaknesses are strength related.. (For the problems I am working/aspiring to). So in my limited training time - I'd prefer to work strength than flexibility..
Maybe I'm picking problems that align with strength issues rather than flexibility - but I doubt it.
I seem to be stirring thing s up here (I'm not trolling honest!) but I wonder if this is more of an issue if you climb more inside? Where problems are constructed in a different way? (I've done far less frogs leg start sitters outside than I have tried indoors!).
-
Stop talking shit and lowering things to your standard saying there are always ways around things! Start stretching your hips out and you'll be able to climb 7a more readily, same if you climb 6a or 8a or 9a.
Next time I'll point out all the best climbers I've seen are obese
Ok I may be trying to lower things to justify my own inflexibility :) but.. Weight, Strength are factors that you cannot change (rapidly - as in a day..) and are very difficult to adapt around... Whereas flexibility often is something that can be worked around - quickly with different technique.
This does sound like someone trying to justify not doing flexibility work...
-
Stop talking shit and lowering things to your standard saying there are always ways around things! Start stretching your hips out and you'll be able to climb 7a more readily, same if you climb 6a or 8a or 9a.
Next time I'll point out all the best climbers I've seen are obese
Ok I may be trying to lower things to justify my own inflexibility :) but.. Weight, Strength are factors that you cannot change (rapidly - as in a day..) and are very difficult to adapt around... Whereas flexibility often is something that can be worked around - quickly with different technique.
This does sound like someone trying to justify not doing flexibility work...
:D
-
So on this trip to bishop, you know the one where I did Mandala, Megos was there working Lucid and about 4-5 of us were having a play on Evilution. He was giving all of us shit because we were all having to jump our foot up to the start hold, and it's a very glassy precise foot. And here's this guy who's a good 3 inches shorter than all of us, and he just reaches his foot up and places it precisely on the hold, then pulls off the ground.
Is Megos short? I got the imprerssion he was tall from the vids.
There's also a degree of active flexibilty here. For high feet, i can physically manhandle my foot on to hold but not actively lift my foot to it.
-
I seem to be stirring thing s up here (I'm not trolling honest!)
I wasn't having a go Tom, it just seemd funny to have your two somewhat contradictory statements side by side!
You've no need for flexibilty, I thought you just lanked problems anyway........
-
Is Megos short? I got the imprerssion he was tall from the vids.
height is 173cm, weight is 57kg, ape is 0!
-
height is 173cm, weight is 57kg, ape is 0!
5'8" then, I thought he was taller. 57kg, wow, maybe i need to go on a diet! At least Jimmy Webb weighs as much as an adult.
-
me too, I'm heavier and shorter :(
-
So on this trip to bishop, you know the one where I did Mandala, Megos was there working Lucid and about 4-5 of us were having a play on Evilution. He was giving all of us shit because we were all having to jump our foot up to the start hold, and it's a very glassy precise foot. And here's this guy who's a good 3 inches shorter than all of us, and he just reaches his foot up and places it precisely on the hold, then pulls off the ground.
Is Megos short? I got the imprerssion he was tall from the vids.
There's also a degree of active flexibilty here. For high feet, i can physically manhandle my foot on to hold but not actively lift my foot to it.
That sounds like a core strength / control issue too?
-
That sounds like a core strength / control issue too?
Probably. I've started on jwi's path to the core of a legend and have added some exercises to my wall sessions to recreate the movement as well as prenty of flexible hip stuff. I'm still shit though........
-
So, with all the talk of opening/flexible hips, how do you get them.
(I don't have access to weights so FD's suggestion is half negated)
-
So, with all the talk of opening/flexible hips, how do you get them.
(I don't have access to weights so FD's suggestion is half negated)
overhead squats, full depth (so bum all the way down), no need for extra weight, you'll still be walking funny for a few days, unless you are a machine
-
I do quite a lot of stretching but you wouldn't know it to watch me, caveat I've only been concentrating on hips a couple of weeks rather than general stuff.
1) periformis either sit or lie and put opp knee to shoulder.
2)Lunge and pull back leg to butt.
3)Frog stretch, knees on floor as far as poss with shins straight behind them and push back arse as far as poss.
4)Deep squat, then as wide as poss doing same.
5)Butterfly stretch obviously.
6)box splits, but pathetically
Hehe the best ones I've been shown are best done in private
A) half baby, lie on back and bring one leg up bent. Grab hold of that foot and try and rest that thigh on ground next to your chest, keeping your shin vertical
B) full baby, same but both legs at same time. You now look ridiculous
Loads more but that's the bulk of it
-
So, with all the talk of opening/flexible hips, how do you get them.
(I don't have access to weights so FD's suggestion is half negated)
overhead squats, full depth (so bum all the way down), no need for extra weight, you'll still be walking funny for a few days, unless you are a machine
Like this?
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/05/eb4b97c0c20c30e954f81260020a7a82.jpg)
-
Oui oui
-
assuming I have a functioning back
You ever contemplated if the current state of your back might be due to lack of flexibility / stretching.
I've got an old lower back injury, and I definitely feel it playing up if I have been doiing a lot of exercise and haven't done any stretching for a while.
-
assuming I have a functioning back
You ever contemplated if the current state of your back might be due to lack of flexibility / stretching.
Yes - quite possibly.. Though I suspect its more down to bad posture at desks and when driving.. I probably spend > 40 hours a week at the former and 10 the latter..
Pre-injury, my back was (I thought) quite flexible - but my hamstrings/hips were not... I now await someone to tell me its all linked...
-
it's all linked
invoice in the post
-
The Skeleton Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e54m6XOpRgU#)
See 0:40-0:50 especially.
-
it's all linked
It's definitely all linked. I used to get a mega stiff lower back and spent ages trying to stretch before realising it was my tight glutes and hamstrings that were causing it. No more lower back pain these days.
-
it's all linked
invoice in the post
andy_e gets the wad for that. His answer was better than yours :p
-
I still want fucking paying
-
I still want fucking paying
Back off - or I'll set my legal department onto you (he owes me a pint still..)
-
I still want fucking punching
I thought you said this.....
-
probably more likely to happen than what I wanted
-
Rodma and Dense, cheers for the pointers, I shall research and work on opening up these hips......
-
Yes - quite possibly.. Though I suspect its more down to bad posture at desks and when driving.. I probably spend > 40 hours a week at the former and 10 the latter..
Pre-injury, my back was (I thought) quite flexible - but my hamstrings/hips were not... I now await someone to tell me its all linked...
The mobilitywod bloke's Supple Leopard book will tell you how sitting down lots is the root of all evil and give you lots of ways to smash your glutes with a massage ball and stretch them out to sort out all sorts of back issues and range of motion problems...
-
Rodma and Dense, cheers for the pointers, I shall research and work on opening up these hips......
Do you remember we were up at the Roaches doing those problems under Babbacombe Lee? I was able to get my heel up near my shoulder and use it... That was after doing loads of squats. It's definately in the lateral hips rather than being able to touch toes etc.
If you don't have a bar then wall squats are just as good...
-
Horst says... (http://www.nicros.com/training/articles/stretching-to-improve-high-stepping-and-hip-turnout/)
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mjBaLVlQWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mjBaLVlQWw)
-
Another Meta, on static stretching.
Again posted after a skim only, as I'm at work.
(Even though this stuff IS my work now, people keep talking to me, sending me emails, phones keep ringing, or people are breaking things, so reading has to wait until Duvet O'clock...)
http://www.faculty.mun.ca/dbehm/EJAP_review_Behm_and_Chaouachi_2011.pdf
-
Another Meta, on static stretching.
Again posted after a skim only, as I'm at work.
(Even though this stuff IS my work now, people keep talking to me, sending me emails, phones keep ringing, or people are breaking things, so reading has to wait until Duvet O'clock...)
http://www.faculty.mun.ca/dbehm/EJAP_review_Behm_and_Chaouachi_2011.pdf (http://www.faculty.mun.ca/dbehm/EJAP_review_Behm_and_Chaouachi_2011.pdf)
I might read it in depth (but might not since I'm busy and have an injury prevention book to keep me busy) but a quick skim read and they show the effect sizes as percentage changes and I have a strong dislike for using percentage changes to quantify differences as its a very poor metric.
There are statistical issues, such as it having low statistical power (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2288/1/6) relative to directly comparing post intervention/activity measurements and adjusting for baseline. But most people won't be interested since they're boring statistical details.
More practically though and perhaps easier to understand is that taking the mean of percentage change from baseilne just doesn't make sense....
Consider a subject whose pre measurement (on whatever you are measuring it doesn't matter) is 100 and their post measurement is 150, thats +50% change. Take someone else whose pre measurement on the same scale is 150 and their post measurement is 75, thats a -50% change. Take the arithmetic mean of the percentage change and what do you have? 0% change since its calculated as (50 + -50) / 2.
The mean pre-treatment was (100 + 150) / 2 = 125
The mean post-treatment was (150 + 75) / 2 = 112.5
Further what a percentage change of a given amount means will be highly dependent on the starting value of any given individual. Someone who starts on 25 and has a +50% change will have an end-point value of 37.5 (an increase of 12.5 units), whilst someone who starts on 100 and has a +50% change will have an end-point change of 150 (an increase of 50 units, four times that of the person who started on 25).
Obviously these are simplified and hypothetical examples and you might expect all changes to be in the same direction, but thats no excuse for using a poor approach. I've been obliged to do analysis in this manner for a clinical trial looking at the effect of bisphosphonates on peripheral bone mineral density in women with osteoarthritis and made it very clear to the chief investigator what the problems are. He chose to ignore me and insisted on having his analysis done this way. I refused to be a co-author on the paper.
A more appropriate approach would be to express the post-treatment value relative to the pre-treatment value as a proportion of the standard deviation, but I shan't bore people with the details, just felt it worth highlighting the shortcomings of focusing too heavily on percentage change as it can be misleading. Theres some more information on Vanderbilt University Biostatistics page (http://biostat.mc.vanderbilt.edu/wiki/Main/MeasureChange) if anyone is interested in further reading.
-
Thanks Slackers😄.
Though that might be longer than the paper...
Three guesses what kind of coursework I'm doing today?
Anyone?
http://www.gytk.sote.hu/gyki/Oktatok/Horpet/Bozot_suggested_article.pdf
-
Horst says... (http://www.nicros.com/training/articles/stretching-to-improve-high-stepping-and-hip-turnout/)
These are what didn't really work that well for years. I'm sure they helped a bit but I gained more flexibility in three months doing wall and O'head squats than in the previous ten years doing these...
-
Those froggies - we do something similar at yoga but for the life of me, I can't feel the pose doing anything of value. Face down with someone standing on your butt maybe.
-
Horst says... (http://www.nicros.com/training/articles/stretching-to-improve-high-stepping-and-hip-turnout/)
These are what didn't really work that well for years. I'm sure they helped a bit but I gained more flexibility in three months doing wall and O'head squats than in the previous ten years doing these...
That's really interesting.. I can don't those frog stretches better than the lady in the pics - but can't use them when climbing - ie I suspect I cannot put any weight down through them.. Will look into squats when more recovered... Do they have to be with weights?
-
Do they have to be with weights?
As another not very flexible person I find trying to do a squat with just holding my arms out in front with good form (feet pointed slightly out, calves as vertical as possible, knees pushed out to the side as you go down, back straight, shoulders neutral, balanced on the centre of the foot etc) just as difficult as with a barbell across my shoulders. If you try to maintain good form, limits of hip or ankle mobility will push you off balance. It won't build as much leg strength but it will work the joint mobility just the same.
-
No need for the added weight. Just try them and then walk funny for a few days thereafter :)
-
I've been having a go at the wall squats for a couple of days, they kill my upper-back/ neck as I try to not move my shoulders forward and they end up around my ears. All good I'm sure.
-
I'm no scientist or physio but wall squats really pick up on stiffness in the back and shoulders and then ease it out if done gently.
I remember doing some with a couple of good climbers and it was clear they were really restricted in both areas.
For normal squats there's no need for weight... Just good form. A broom handle in the OHS position is just as good.
-
I have a copy of Essential Yoga: Illustrated guide to over 100 yoga poses and meditation in PDF if anyone is interested, just email
-
I think Ben means these:
http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/squat-101 (http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/squat-101)
-
+1 for overhead squats and snatch variations, to improve hip, back and shoulder mobility and stability, particularly as an antidote to climbers' often hunched shoulders. Start with a broomstick or pvc pipe and then build up the weight on a bar, once you can do 5 reps, keeping the bar vertically over your centre of gravity, rather than allowing it to tip forward. Keeping tension along the bar helps to keep elbows locked. Eventually, as per him:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h67/Gubernatrix/strength%20training/olympic-squat.jpg (http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h67/Gubernatrix/strength%20training/olympic-squat.jpg)
-
He does say the initial set up 1 foot away from the wall is for beginners, even I can do that! The second one 1 minute in with feet up against the wall is rather more tricky for me.
-
I'll have try of that later.
Saw a physio whilst I was away, a guy who runs a gym with a friend of mine, as my adductor was still silly tight and the knee like a balloon - usual comments of the tightest hamstrings he's seen, medial is stretched, so gotta look after the adductor as it's working over time. He'd never seen anyone who does any sort of climbing and was genuinely interested in what we can put our bodies through. He too suggested squats as a way of opening up the hips.
-
:offtopic:
I think Ben means these:
http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/squat-101 (http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/squat-101)
I didn't read the article but the video looked about right.. Just skimmed it so I've no idea what he was saying...
-
I'm pretty flexible in most areas but my hips are shockingly bad. I can just about do that wall squat when I am a foot away from the wall but my form is not great.
-
I'm pretty flexible in most areas but my hips are shockingly bad. I can just about do that wall squat when I am a foot away from the wall but my form is not great.
Doesnt this disadvantage the long legged? I mean those with thighs that are only a foot long will piss it! ;)
-
Foot and nose size would matter too I guess.
-
Foot and nose size would matter too I guess.
Damn right. Long nosed big footed hobbits are at such an advantage... Don't give me all this 'you can lank it' blah blah blah.... ITS HARD BEING TALL NORMAL...
;)
(BTW I can't do one :( )
-
I'm pretty flexible in most areas but my hips are shockingly bad. I can just about do that wall squat when I am a foot away from the wall but my form is not great.
Doesnt this disadvantage the long legged? I mean those with thighs that are only a foot long will piss it! ;)
;)
-
Talkin' of Hobbits - I see she lunges well but I'd be interested in her squat action.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/EvangelineLillyAsTauriel.jpg)
-
I do have a pretty big nose so I guess there is little hope
-
Toes against the wall with a broomstick held overhead. The broom stick should be the same distance from the wall as the front of your shin. If you can't do that, then start working towards it.
-
So how far from the wall do you do them, Ben?
Toes against the wall, barefoot, feet a shoulder width apart, arms outstretched above shoulder height. You should feel all the weight driving through the heels. Not done any for ages but should cos I'm off surfing in Morocco in ten days.
-
Yep perpendicular. As deep as you can go. You should normal squats first though..
-
Tried these last night, god I'm shit at them! Really hard to keep heel on floor for me
-
Tried these last night, god I'm shit at them! Really hard to keep heel on floor for me
probably means your knees are travelling forwards
-
A good test of how you will get on with these is putting the toes of one foot a few inches from a wall and trying to push the knee to touch the wall without the heel raising. I have an old injury on one ankle which is causing some problems but my ankle dorsiflexion is pants.
I can move the right foot about 1.5 inches from the wall and still get the knee to touch it and perhaps 1 inch with my left. I find these squats super hard because I cant get my shins over my feet.
-
My heels come off the floor when my arse is between 20 and 40 cm off the deck.. below that I rest on my heels - above no problem... otherwise it feels odd but do-able (not sure I should do more than one with my back in its present state!)
-
Do feet stay perpendicular to the wall throughout? And how far down are we going?
I thought the feet should be in line with the thighs. :-\ so not quite perpendicular...
-
OK more like in a natural standing position, a good way to get the posture is a small jump in the air and land relaxed - a natural unforced standing position with everything in balance and harmony maaaaan
-
Where's the hippie with a bandana smoking weed smiley....
-
.