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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: JR on March 06, 2007, 05:59:39 pm
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Just spoken to Jordan Buys who tells me that he onsighted Carmen Picasso at Gorple on friday (2/3/07) after Nao abbed down and placed the wire and brushed the route.
He says E8 6c.
A very bon effort.
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Fine effort. Was lucky enough to see BB guns' ascent, he didn't make it look easy which speaks for itself.
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Effort J! :thumbsup:
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Wad wad wad. Grit routes in good style, is this the future?
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Planet Worried are suggesting he abbed the line and pre placed some of the gear, not quite on sight then but a fine effort neverless
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Amazing effort.
I read the planetfear article and was left wondering if the defintion I held in my head was incorrect?
I appreciate that news articles get written in a bit of a rush but the above and the below seem a bit shoddy to me.
although some have been onsighted, or in modern parlance 'ground-upped' (not to be confused with big upped).
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If he abbed it it's a flash, surely? (arguably it's a flash anyway as had the gear preplaced). With less knowledge than BB, but still a flash rather than an onsight?
Obviously this is a matter of semantics and has no bearing on the ascent - great effort whatever the definition.
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Just spoken to Jordan Buys who tells me that he onsighted Carmen Picasso at Gorple on friday (2/3/07) after Nao abbed down and placed the wire and brushed the route.
JR says naomi abbed it and cleaned it, not jordan. Am i the only one who can read this? (emporer's new clothes scenario?). Good efford to the J-wad i rate.
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Just spoken to Jordan Buys who tells me that he onsighted Carmen Picasso at Gorple on friday (2/3/07) after Nao abbed down and placed the wire and brushed the route.
JR says naomi abbed it and cleaned it, not jordan. Am i the only one who can read this? (emporer's new clothes scenario?). Good efford to the J-wad i rate.
I think people are commenting on Planet Fear's report that Jordan also abbed the line after Nao, and tested some of the gear.
It's a shame that an awesome effort; E8 flashes are few and far between, looks like it will be overshadowed by the manner in which it was reported.
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if the PF report (which i've only just read) is right then its clearly a flash not onsight. either way its still a good effort. didn't allen and bancroft used to do this type of thing a lot - one would ab and clean so the other could go for the onsight/flash?
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Very excellent ascent, but I'm not entirely sure PF are correct to report it as being the best syle yet on the route.
Flash with preplaced gear after watching someone, Versus - Flash on pre-placed gear and abseil inspection/gear test, having not watched someone. :-\ Both pretty fine style, wouldn't like to say which was better.
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I actually believe that in necky routes that there is such a thing as the on-sight non-flash. That is going totally on-sight, but having one or more falls or lower-offs. Dawes's ascent of Hardback Thesaurus was one of these, and it could well have been much easier to ab and check it out and then do it first go, than to 'on-sight' it over several days.
Maybe that's where Mick equates ground-up with on-sight?
Anyway, all this is all just argument over words, and matter nothing compared to climbing Carmen Picasso.
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Maybe that's where Mick equates ground-up with on-sight?
maybe...
PF has now changed the title to: Jordan Buys Kind Of Onsights Grit E8 . Genius.
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Maybe that's where Mick equates ground-up with on-sight?
maybe...
PF has now changed the title to: Jordan Buys Kind Of Onsights Grit E8 . Genius.
Do you think if we all re-post saying we actually do think it's a valid onsight they'll change it back?
What else can we make them do? :-\
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Good effort! :great: whats next??
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didn't allen and bancroft used to do this type of thing a lot - one would ab and clean so the other could go for the onsight/flash?
i don't know about john allen but billy bancroft used to practice moves on the ab rope as well as cleaning them and not just for first ascents.
thinking about it doesn't allen admit to pre practice in that bit in the burbage guide.
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I've just thought of a more accurate term:
'Does'
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likin your style grimer
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People people.
It's a headline to a news report. Headlines are about grabbing the attention of the viewer. I see from the thread above that it has done just that.
To clarify, I spoke to Jordan this morning re the ascent. My take on what he said was that he had onsighted it. He was definite about this. He also said that he had abbed the line and checked the top wire. That's how I reported it.
Retrospectively it became obvious that things didn't stack up. Jordan was out at Earl Crag so I changed the text.
I just spoke to him again and he pointed out that he'd just got out of bed when I spoke to him and perhaps hadn't made it clear that he'd abbed the route AFTER climbing it. I've just update the news item to reflect this.
Apologies for the confusion and a fine effort.
MattH
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I got it straight from the horses mouth and checked again with him before i posted. No mention of an abseil before climbing it.
Hopefully it won't be remembered for the way it was reported but for the way it was ascended.
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MattH for a Pulitzer? ;)
Awesome effort Jordan :bow:
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i'm going to remember it for the way i reported remembering it.
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remember what?
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John Bancroft's Headpoint ascent of Jordan Buys of course.
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some good pics here:
https://www.posingproductions.com/gallery.php?form_action=detail&id=85 (https://www.posingproductions.com/gallery.php?form_action=detail&id=85)
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nice to see some photos of that route. Any idea any one of his helmet stickers is a car sticker?
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Very excellent ascent, but I'm not entirely sure PF are correct to report it as being the best syle yet on the route.
Flash with preplaced gear after watching someone, Versus - Flash on pre-placed gear and abseil inspection/gear test, having not watched someone. :-\ Both pretty fine style, wouldn't like to say which was better.
Indeed. Both are fine ascents but if you wanted to get pedantic BB may just pip JB as it was graded E9 when he did it, so bit more psychy.
Either way Space Waddity all round.
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nice to see some photos of that route. Any idea any one of his helmet stickers is a car sticker?
Either that, or it's stuck on the inside of a small transparent section of his helmet.
Good pics.
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Very excellent ascent, but I'm not entirely sure PF are correct to report it as being the best syle yet on the route.
Flash with preplaced gear after watching someone, Versus - Flash on pre-placed gear and abseil inspection/gear test, having not watched someone. Undecided Both pretty fine style, wouldn't like to say which was better.
Indeed. Both are fine ascents but if you wanted to get pedantic BB may just pip JB as it was graded E9 when he did it, so bit more psychy.
Aye, and the knowledge that it has already been onsighted makes a big difference. I'd give BB the onsight here too as he paid scant attention to Dave's sequence and then came up with a different one. Perhaps more impressive was his ascent of Eternal ten minutes earlier, after waltzing up it on the flash he then reversed it just as casually.
Not to diss Jordan's ascent though, fine effort. Ben reckoned hard E7 but then he is firmly in the yorkshire 'less is more' school of grading.
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Yes, I agree the important thing's that these are basically equivalent ascents but for a smidgeon of differing beta. I was kind of going with the converse option of calling this a flash, but you'd prefer to retro-uprate the older ascent to the same `onsight' with a pre placed wire?
Anyway, I don't know what the blinking fuss is about how it was reported here. If JR calls an ascent onsight, then all you can say is it was a Roberts Onsight, and given the man hadn't top roped it before it was a good one at that ;-).
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you'd prefer to retro-uprate the older ascent
No, that was my opinion on the day. As Joe Brown said 'the fact that we never made these claims ourselves didn't matter; others made them for us'
In general I think onsights shouldn't be so rigidly enforced. I don't think seeing a video negates the onsight, or even someone working the route. If you have a discussion about the moves and holds, then yes you only get the beta-flash. But its still a better ascent than the guys who go on routes in pairs, one of them chalking and working with the main intention of giving the other guy beta for the flash. But lets not get into a debate.
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But lets not get into a debate.
Stable. Horse. Door. Bolted.