UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: Paul B on October 04, 2006, 11:02:52 pm
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What makes an ascent newsworthy these days? One of the world's best climbers repeats one of the world's hardest and most famous climbs and it sounds pretty newsworthy. Austrian born Kilian Fischhuber has just climbed Wolfgang Gullich's Action Directe, the benchmark f9a route anywhere on the planet. My problem is, it's the 9th ascent including the legendary Wolfgang's. It is the second most repeated f9a after Kinematix at Gorge Du Loup in France (10 ascents). f9a is without doubt nails, but it is no longer the absolute cutting edge - let's face it Wolfgang established Action Directe way back in 1991 (and graded it f8c+ / 9a). Would we be reporting the 9th ascent of an E8 that was put up by Johnny Dawes in the late 80's? Probably not. Action Directe is actually around 12 moves long, significantly shorter than many boulder problems. Dave MacLeod has established V13's at Dumbarton with twice as many moves.
So what makes Action Directe newsworthy? I call it Internet Keepy Uppies (and planetFear are as guilty of it as anybody else). Somebody climbs something hard. It gets reported on a website somewhere. Come the next morning a dozen or so climbing news-hounds sit at their computers sipping coffee and surfing the regular news sites to see if anything has happened over night. Bingo. Action Directe - that's a famous route isn't it. Somebody obviously thinks its worth while reporting so we better had too. Must keep up with the Joneses. Mustn't be the one responsible for dropping the ball. And so it escalates. By lunch time a dozen sites are bigging it up to receive more attention than the first ascent! Such is the power of the Internet.
I was a bit bemused after reading this, I thought the reason this climb has had as much attention as this was due to its pedigree, and certainly doesnt overshadow the FA, in fact the opposite, ask almost anyone who climbs: "who climbed Action Directe" and you'll get the correct response however if you mention Akira, or hugh?... Im guessing the number of correct responses will be a lot less.... Comparing this to an E8 seems simply to be madness, ok so I kind of understand the comparison of cutting edge trad at the time to cutting edge sport but is that really a fair comparison to make? After all the trad standards have been pushed and confirmed, where as in sport there has been no confirmed 'significant' change ? (correct me if i'm wrong?)
Maybe this is a daft post, who knows, just in my book F9a is still newsworthy until there is a confirmed leap forward. What do you lot think?
Sorry if this is a bit of a daft rant - im sure you'll let me know if it is ;)
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I agree Paul. Somebody climbing F9A is still good news. Action Directe does have a certain something about it though, maybe to do with everything attached to it and its first ascentionist? I dont know.
But these days, the super strong climb F9A for breakfast so people get very used about it. Thats the nature of people. A comparison is some suicide bomber killing a load of folk in the middle East. It is still a massive thing as people are dying, but we hear it every day so we get accustomed to it. Same thing happens in climbing I'm sure. Woohoo, somebody climbed Action Directe is obviously this persons opinion.
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If someone repeated Northern Lights or Rainshadow it would be very newsworthy, but AD is becoming (I hate to say it) a trade route. Not to say AD is a trade route you understand, it's just it's had at least 4 ascents this year. Hubble however has had that many repeats in 15 years. Which is harder? Or Indian Face, 2 repeats in 20 years. Does that make it 'harder' the AD or Hubble? No.
9a+/9b is cutting edge, everything else is just a local story IMHO, no matter how impressive it may be.
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ill give you 9a+ as being the cutting edge, however has 9b been actively confirmed?
AD surely gets the attention that it does because it was the first of its kind, dare I say that if Hubble was given 9a it may be recieving similar attention to as what we have seen on AD? (Picture the tor overrun by Eurowads? ok then maybe not).
Rainshadow or Northern Lights will make a fine news piece when it happens...until then I believe these ascents to be worthy of note.
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Action Directe is actually around 12 moves long, significantly shorter than many boulder problems. Dave MacLeod has established V13's at Dumbarton with twice as many moves.
???
Surely this is the point. Action Directe is short and intense. It's a proper hard route, with proper hard moves - it doesn't get a big grade because it's so long, it gets a big grade because move for move it's harder than most. Though 9 climbers have succeeded, the list of climbers that have tried and failed is pretty astounding, when you consider what they have achieved elsewhere:
here is a list off the top of my head of world class climbers that have been and tryed action and not succeded.
John Gaskins
Dani Andrada
Fred Nicole
Klem Loskot
Ben Moon
Josune Beratizu
Paxti Usobiaga
Huber Brothers
Jerry Moffatt
many top french climbers,
Markus bendler
Sharma? i think
fred Roughling
Jb tribout
Surely no other top route sees the same amount of attention. So to achieve where so many others have failed is really something. Action Directe is the gold standard. Of course it's newsworthy!
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Action Direct a trade route? Andy, you're out of your mind!
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completely agree with R-man (oh.my.god), news of success on action is noteworthy becuase of its length. No other 9a exists that is so short and power dependant - all the other ones have easier moves but more of them.
Comparing Action to Indian face is a non starter too - if you fall of the crux of one, you slump back onto the rope, possibly banging your hip if you have an inattentive belayer, but you dust yourself off and get involved again. With the other, a slip from the crux means almost certain death. One climb is about head strength, and one about physiological mettle.
Effort to Fischlover, still an awesome achievement.
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Fishburger is a wad. There can be no doubt. I've seen him climbing and he is a talented and hard working climber!
And about what planet-fear wrote. I can only put this down to people who know nothing about the international world of sport climbing writing the news. Really, it's a bit lame. If planet fear fell off the web (or the face of the earth for that matter) I wouldn't miss it.
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So what makes Action Directe newsworthy? I call it Internet Keepy Uppies (and planetFear are as guilty of it as anybody else). Somebody climbs something hard. It gets reported on a website somewhere. Come the next morning a dozen or so climbing news-hounds sit at their computers sipping coffee and surfing the regular news sites to see if anything has happened over night. Bingo. Action Directe - that's a famous route isn't it. Somebody obviously thinks its worth while reporting so we better had too. Must keep up with the Joneses. Mustn't be the one responsible for dropping the ball. And so it escalates. By lunch time a dozen sites are bigging it up to receive more attention than the first ascent! Such is the power of the Internet.
Yes, I still think an ascent of this route is still significant, more so for the climber than the route. You have to enjoy the honesty of the above quote though, rather than the usual NEWSFLASH NEWSFLASH!
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Fishburger is a wad. There can be no doubt. I've seen him climbing and he is a talented and hard working climber!
Not many climbers out there who have climbed Font 8b+ and F9a.
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Seems an accurate assessment to me. The newer, harder routes are not as famous, hence ascents are ignored. This is an old route, standards have moved on as have fashions. There are now climbers who are far better all round than Wolfgang was.
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Seems an accurate assessment to me. The newer, harder routes are not as famous, hence ascents are ignored. This is an old route, standards have moved on as have fashions. There are now climbers who are far better all round than Wolfgang was.
I couldn't agree more. So it's good to see that an all rounder like Killian has done Action. It's so far away from Wolfgangs first ascent, where he trained so long and so specifically for it. I think that Killian's been trying it for a while, but as Adam posted above, he's done 8B+ and 9a. A great ascent which confirms his mega skills.
Also, newer, harder routes are not ignored, it's just that maybe they don't get reported on english speaking sites. There are plenty of french and spanish sites that regularly report hard sport ascents.
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Have any brits climbed 9a and 8b+?
Only candidates i can think of about doing it someday are Stew Watson, Pasquile, Keen Youth and Ty....
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Have any brits climbed 9a and 8b+?
Only candidates i can think of about doing it someday are Stew Watson, Pasquile, Keen Youth and Ty....
Dave MacLeod will surely do it in the next few years
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Dave MacLeod will surely do it in the next few years
Ahh yes, completly forgot him!
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Ste Mclure already has achieved 9A/ Font 8B+, each on more than one occassion, none of which where 'Holiday grades' which are all to common nowadays.
Well done to Kilian, one of the best ticks in the world? Although not on par with one of Dawes E8's obviously.
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Ste Mclure already has achieved 9A/ Font 8B+, each on more than one occassion, none of which where 'Holiday grades' which are all to common nowadays.
Ahh cool, which 8b+ has he done? Though he had just done 8b, that thing at Stanage.
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Did he not grade Rhythm 8B+
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Did he not grade Rhythm 8B+
Speaking of which, add dunning to my list of all rounders and godskins!
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Did he not grade Rhythm 8B+
Wrong Steve.
I think the AD ascent is newsworthy. The thing about hard ascents in this country is that you shouldn't get caught up too much with the British downer on grades. Just becuase there are very few things graded 8B+ in this country doesn't mean that there's nothing hard. Generally British climbers that project 8Bs in this country go and shred them abroad. Then they come home, spend months on a project that's even harder and there's debate about whether it's 8A+ or not.
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Did he not grade Rhythm 8B+
Wrong Steve.
Damn it!!
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Steve Mac has done a 8b+ bloc at Wainstones (think its called). Horrendous sit start involving a mono. As for Action there are not many 9a's or above around that are so perfect or have such a history, Realisation is the obvious other one.
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I think the AD ascent is newsworthy. The thing about hard ascents in this country is that you shouldn't get caught up too much with the British downer on grades. Just becuase there are very few things graded 8B+ in this country doesn't mean that there's nothing hard. Generally British climbers that project 8Bs in this country go and shred them abroad. Then they come home, spend months on a project that's even harder and there's debate about whether it's 8A+ or not.
I know that and you know that, which rather begs the question, why did you push grades even lower/further from euro partity in your own publication? :-\ ;) ;)
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Steve Mac has done a 8b+ bloc at Wainstones (think its called). Horrendous sit start involving a mono. As for Action there are not many 9a's or above around that are so perfect or have such a history, Realisation is the obvious other one.
Speaking of Realisation, Chris says hello
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shit i must learn to log out when i'm finished
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Steve Mac has done a 8b+ bloc at Wainstones (think its called). Horrendous sit start involving a mono. As for Action there are not many 9a's or above around that are so perfect or have such a history, Realisation is the obvious other one.
Speaking of Realisation, Chris says hello
And i say hello back, one day we'll meet again and i'll take my rightful place at his side!
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Steve Mac has done a 8b+ bloc at Wainstones (think its called). Horrendous sit start involving a mono. As for Action there are not many 9a's or above around that are so perfect or have such a history, Realisation is the obvious other one.
Speaking of Realisation, Chris says hello
And i say hello back, one day we'll meet again and i'll take my rightful place at his side!
He will be in Hueco at Xmas so if you can wait that long ;) .........
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can't wait :shag:
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to put a twist on the thread, didn't a certain world class climber from these parts get slated for saying action direct was more like hard 8c+, back in the mid 90's...
now from what some people have said about the numerous ascents action direct has had, and especially in someones comparison to hubble. maybe that climber was right right all along.....
i'm not saying it is hard 8C+, nor am i belittling the very impresive achievements of the people who have done it.
just devil's advocate.
but maybe ben was right, food for thoughts.
what do you all think?
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don't know about the grade, but i reckon the fact that Action is a million times more inspiring than Hubble might have something to do with the number of ascents both have had.
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don't know about the grade, but i reckon the fact that Action is a million times more inspiring than Hubble might have something to do with the number of ascents both have had.
(http://humanities.byu.edu/elc/student/idioms/idioms/images/hit_nail_on_head.jpg)
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Steve Mac has done a 8b+ bloc at Wainstones (think its called). Horrendous sit start involving a mono.
Really?? Tell more!
I was up there the other week (doing nice mid-grade routes not F8b+ boulder problems you understand), but I did see something that vaguely matched this description - an undercut wall facing the crag with a sloper shelf on the lip and a pinkie mono just up and right - is that the one??
If it is and it's V14 dear god it must be horrendous to get that grade. And if it isn't well there's another project to go there then ;)
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This could be it - found on climbonline
102a. The Finger V11 7a
Start at The Hollow. A few feet left of route 94 at the obvious old bolt hole in the wall.
"Place your little finger in the hole, pull, and dyno for the top."
Steve McClure didn't give a date. c2003 "The Finger .......as its up yours you hideous problem."
"Very hard to grade because it is a dyno and also cos there is only one hold, if your finger doesn't fit then its gonna be well hard! Could be average of about V11. A sit start is needed and will go, possibly up to V13 or more, but since I twanged my finger in it I doubt it will be me doing it!" Steve McClure
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Add gaskins to the 8B+/9A list, and Malcy Smith, possibly me and Dunning depending on whether or not certain link ups are classed as routes or boulder problems and that we have certainly climbed 8b+/9a in steves case, if we based our grades on a par with overseas.
Action Directe is a full grade harder than Hubble, I cannot deny that. iI's also so so much better. 9 ascents isn't alot considering the amount of world class climbers who have attempted it and failed for various reasons. it really is a tricky route on all aspects.
In my opionion (are you allowed one on here without people becoming suicidal) , even though there are many 9th grade routes around, Action is still amongst the top ten hardest routes in the world. This opinion is shared by the likes of Bock, Pou, Koyamada etc etc. Ive yet to hear Kilians opinion, but will probably find out shortly.
Regardless of it's list of ascentonists, it should be on any aspiring climbers ticklist. It truly is a magnificent climb, im sure even Johnny brown, deep down in his rotten heart would agree with me on this one. Then again it's not at Stanage, so probably not.
Bimey did i just say that? best go into hiding before the head hunters are out in force again.
Kill Kill Kill Kill.
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Sorry Rich, missed you off the list! What 8b+ bloc have you done?
Hows that jab and hook coming along? ;)
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I suspect the public fascination with Action Directe is just plain old fashioned mystique. As a punter it is very hard to get excited about most "latter-day" 9a and above routes. Many of them appear to be extensions of existing easier routes (or similar in character variations) ... my brain can be persuaded to admire the difficuly and the rarity of a climber whose power / stamina renders them capable of doing that bit more of the same, but my heart remains fundamentally unwon.
But Action Direct just... looks insane: show non-climbers footage of it and they are agog. The route has a charisma which extends to those who manage it. Ascent, in my ignorance, marks you out as a different, more noble breed to the usual tanned, endlessly anaerobic enduro-monsters. That is why it is still news: the imagery of creatures of pure-power yarding on monos. It's almost like the difference between someone who sets a 100m sprint record by running 0.01s faster.. and someone who sets the same time by clearing his throat and then teleporting!
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Sorry Rich, missed you off the list! What 8b+ bloc have you done?
I haven't climbed font 8b+ on paper, and neither has Dunning climbed 9a. But in therory, certain stuff we have both climbed would undoubtedly be given font 8b+, or dare i say it 8c, if compared with the grades overseas. Which it isn't, so that makes any futher comments i make irrelevant, but sticking with the internet style, il say them anyway.
For example,
Superman, between the hold breaking a little, and then off completely was tryed by markus Bock who said, without doubt, that he thought this problem was 8b+ anywhere else. It was climbed by both myself and Ben.
Malcs start, i think would be a solid 8b+ overseas, as would Pool of Bethesda for that matter.
Then you have things like Stamina/PUTP, which in my eyes is a route, but Gaskins i think gave a boulder grade of 8b/8b+.
Still, numbers are meaningless, it's the history thats important. Plus none of these problems are on grit, so would be considered irrelevant in most Brits eyes, Which is great- duly preventing their weak sweaty hands polishing the holds anymore.
:P
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This could be it - found on climbonline
102a. The Finger V11 7a
Start at The Hollow. A few feet left of route 94 at the obvious old bolt hole in the wall.
"Place your little finger in the hole, pull, and dyno for the top."
That's the one. Obviously I have an exceptional eye for a line, albeit a hideous line ;)
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I think the numbers are a little irrelevant when you start to assess others ability, they only work on a personal level, for instance, "oh, its like 8c+, but for him it must be harder..." Think any route is news worthy, but i think true excitement will be when this grade is flashed, People like David Graeme will possess the ability to achieve this rarefied level, then add the head game and we are back to ground breaking news... The on sight ascent of the following routes and the people to achieve this.
Indian Face, Leo Houlding, Ian Vickers...
London Wall, Dave Thomas.
La Ramblas, OS. ?
Hubble OS. ?
Any Other Forcasts
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Hubble OS - Pat King. There is no other.
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Action is still amongst the top ten hardest routes in the world. This opinion is shared by the likes of Bock, Pou, Koyamada etc etc.
You've got to ask why such an old route is still so hard. I don't think its because climbing hasn't advanced; it because fashions have changed. POWER climbing has found its natural home in the boulders, where you can work a move for ages until you have the specific strength to do it with out boring some poor belayer to tears. Here the likes of Godskins have taken such things to their logical conclusion.
The advances in sport climbing have as a result been fairly disappointing over the years since Action Directe; its no longer the home of our '100m sprint'. The great advances, and what I meant when I mentioned all-rounders, have been on the big cliffs:
Climbing El Cap totally free, on-sight in a day was beyond anyone's wildest dreams back in 1990. Not only have we seen this the skills have then been transferred to mountains like Fitz Roy with outrageous results.
This has been climbing's cutting edge over the last decade and is why I don't find twenty-feet of fifteen-year-old one-finger one-armers in some german forest remotely inspiring.
Nothing to do with grit, Rich. Go out to the valley or chalten and prove you're a real all-rounder.
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Mr Brown. For once I agree almost entirely. Have you finally finished your menopause? Am I just getting soft in my old age? Or, maybe im still laughing so profusely from Dobbins previous post, that I am unable to function properly. Nevertheless, Unclesomebody will be turning in his cellar regarding our newly formed ability to agree.
Just for the record, and if you unfortunately missed it the first time- See below for Dobbins most recent 'bombshell'.
Hubble OS - Pat King. There is no other.
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Good old Pat King hey, good old Pat King
The only part of your post I would like to add to and clarify is the following:
You've got to ask why such an old route is still so hard. I don't think it's because climbing hasn't advanced; it because fashions have changed.
I believe the reason Action is still considered so hard is mostly due to the fact that, in this specific type of climbing, accompanied with years of hard work and preparation Wolfgang was substantially ahead of his time when climbing Action in 1990. So much so that climbers have only just begun to catch up and supersede Wolfgang's colossal effort.
Yes, in many styles, and general climbing ability Wolfgang was seen as a lesser to the likes of Moon, Moffatt and JB Tribout. But in this incredibly specific style, pulling hard on one fingered pockets with bad feet and simple sequences, Wolfgang quite simply shone beyond belief, and whilst shining, he found a climb that was made for him and suited his somewhat freakish ability perfectly. Albeit with a colossal amount of training and effort, he succeeded in a climb that was arguably 10 years ahead of time.
This theory, I believe was only recently proven when Action began to receive a significant amount of ascents from a variety of 'the pack' and in doing so was considered to be beneath the current cutting edge in difficulty. Action was climbed in 1990? And it wasn't until 2005 that it began to be a mere test piece rather than something right at the cutting edge.
Action, rightly so has been superseded in the last few years, by things like: Realization, La Rambla, El Muerte (which is of similar ‘Action' style) and only a handful of other routes.
Obviously one can argue that longer, multi pitch routes and Bouldering have superseded the likes of Action, but lets not forget that firstly Action regularly continues to lure the majority of world class climbers, secondly, it's like comparing chalk and cheese.
As for heading out to the Valley- I'd love to, give me the funding and I'm there trying my hardest to cut it with the best on the large walls Yosemite has to offer. Unfortunately, the funding is distributed to people with a slightly different mindset and usually ends up in the Sheaf's till or putting fuel into a drug dealers BMW M3. But that's another matter altogether.
As for Charleton- sorry, but I've never heard of it- care to educate/inspire me.
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question for you johnnybrown,
has the increased level of difficulty in multi-pitch 'adventure' routes come as a side product of people bouldering and 'climbing those uninspiring sport routes' you refer too?
perhaps people realise their physical capablities through bouldering, and sports routes and then take that confidence to the BIG game arena of the 'valley'...
to single out and sledge someone like rich is abit poor as he is at least getting out and proving himself in the style of climbing he enjoys.
correct me if i'm wrong but i think no one has gone out and proven themselves and repeated the super hard routes around europe since moffat and moon.
give respect where its due.
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But let's not forget, any fool can pull hard on small holds when there's a bolt by their waist. It takes a lifetime to learn to place a few cams and climb a bit above them and even longer to learn the subtleties of climbing on grit.
:boohoo:
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"A BOLT BY YOUR WAIST"????
I thought this was a bouldering forum????
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Action Direct a trade route? Andy, you're out of your mind!
You misunderstood me. AD will never be a trade route, but for a 9a to have 9 ascents is, well, quite a few. There's a long list of failed suitors showing how hard it is. All we need is one of them to pop down to LPT and repeat The Big Bang....
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Superbly backpedalled Andy_F, ah-so AD is BECOMING a trade troute.
AD does atleast have something that Northern Lights/Big Bang/Hugh et al don't have: massive historical aura. It's one helluva swansong. I'd wager that has something to do with it's popularity. A portion of wolf-pie.
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to single out and sledge someone like rich is abit poor as he is at least getting out and proving himself in the style of climbing he enjoys.
correct me if i'm wrong but i think no one has gone out and proven themselves and repeated the super hard routes around europe since moffat and moon.
give respect where its due.
Bit harsh, this, I was only replying to the title of the thread whilst Rich was directly accusing me of having a 'rotten heart' for (in his presumption) not being inspired by Action Directe. I have plenty of respect for Buoux 9a; my beef was with others calling some one an all-rounder because they have done both hard boulder problems and sport routes: ludicrous. Folk should check out Lamiche or Lukic's pedigree before they wave that term around.
Yes I agree sport climbing and bouldering have had a huge role to play in giving all-rounders like those mentioned the ability to climb harder trad. Though its worth noting when Patch and Leo onsighted El Nino they had done very little of either; they put their success down to the joint schools of Gogarth and the Slate.
Buoux, lack of sponsors is a lame excuse. Only Leo gets paid to go to these places, everyone else stumps up themselves. Chalten is the base for Cerro Torre/ Fitz Roy. If your really psyched for this stuff I recommend an Alpinist subscription...
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That'll be a different Patch to the one I know who used to hang out in Parisella's, and who grew up in Llandudno, where there are one or two sport climbs, some of them quite tricky too.
That stuff about Gogarth and the slate was just a magazine sound byte. I seriously doubt anybody could onsight world class routes like El Nino if all they'd ever done was shuffle ledges at Gogarth and bone razor crimps in the slate quarries (admirable as these two exploits clearly are).
Also, it is worth noting Leo's success as a young competition climber, before he spread his wings and conquered the world.
It all helps, which to be fair is the point that you were making.
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Bit harsh, this, I was only replying to the title of the thread whilst Rich was directly accusing me of having a 'rotten heart' for (in his presumption) not being inspired by Action Directe
Diddums, someone pass that guy a hanky.
Buoux, lack of sponsors is a lame excuse. Only Leo gets paid to go to these places, everyone else stumps up themselves
Whilst no other climbers get paid directly to go to Yosemite etc, there are many, myself excluded that earn a sum of money, which, if desired could be used to fund a long trip to any big wall venue amongst other trips. So, arguably it's not their own money they're stumping up when funding theses trips.
Obviously one could argue that i could work to save up the money for a trip like this, but it's worth noting that i have been working full time for the last 8 months paying back the money i lent to fund my 2 trips to the Frankenjura to climb Action directe last year.
Diddums, someone pass me a hanky
I can also remember picking up OTE back issues and reguarly seing young Leo excelling in the comp scene, which, arguably gave him a solid foundation of fitness, power and mental strength, which he went on to use when excelling on the big walls.
Chalten is the base for Cerro Torre/ Fitz Roy. If your really psyched for this stuff I recommend an Alpinist subscription...
Il bear that in mind. Thanks
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I have a question, pick me sir, me sir!.
Mr 9a, is there any reason why you have to do your job here? Why can't you go and work in the Valley. This has been a stumbling block for me on my shorter trips - what do you do on your rest days, (I can't justify taking any days with no climbing at all, I'll stop when it rains, damnit).
But on a longer trip, call it life, you can combine rest days with earning money.
Even if you have to work in S Frisco that's where they filmed The Contender isn't it? And if you can't get a VISA from the yanks (VISAs are just some official way of protecting locals' projects) you could try and exploit the student work-permit thing or go to Spain.
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If I win the lottery I'm going to hire boux8c as my climbing coach, so he can reach his full potential as well as
waste a few hours training me.