UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: James Malloch on November 06, 2015, 05:26:04 pm
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Now that the long nights are upon us and I can't get to the wall as much I think it's about time I try and force myself to use the fingerboard in our house.
The main problem with this is that I'm shit on it so lack motivation to use it.
I can boulder around 7A and can climb around 7b sport but if I have recently tried to get through the easiest beastmaker 1000 workout (repeaters) on their app I have to give up really quickly. I start sliding off the holds and feel terribly weak. I'm keen to improve to try and get a bit of strength that seems to be lacking...
So, does anyone have any advice on trying to address this? Try to take weight off somehow and gradually reduce it? Try something other than repeaters? Anything else?
I've never really used them before and I know it will be different for everyone but some basic advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
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I would recommend max hangs if you are looking to gain pure finger strength. I also think they are a lot less awful while you are doing them because you get to rest much more, and you have plenty of time to chalk up between hangs meaning that there is less chance of your fingers slipping off which could give you an injury (liquid chalk is one way of addressing this but I find it makes the friction even worse for me). A weight belt is a good investment if you choose to do dead hangs, but start steadily and build up over a few weeks before launching right in.
You can do max hangs straight after the warm up before a climbing session, at home before you go out climbing or even on rest days (depending on how fucked you're feeling).
It's important to avoid swinging as much as possible and to align yourself to where you are gripping so that all you need to do is lift your legs to begin the hang, and drop your legs to end the hang.
Good Luck.
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Hi James - I Boulder in the mid 7s and can get nowhere near the BM warm up in their app :D
I use their structure 6 reps of 7 on 3 secs off..
2 min break
6 reps of 7 on 3 off
2 min break
6 reps of 7 on 3 off
10 min break - repeat the above (normally 3 sets in total).
I start on the big jugs and slots to get warmed up - then progress to the smaller crimp and so on. So I start easy then onto something I can do - but is a bit hard. As you do it more often you just move to harder things etc (smaller edges, front two/back two)... I do nothing one handed or weighted... I get powered out by the crimps and that's enough for me for now. I also try and half crimp everything.
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Ah - also always with bent arms (hat takes a bit of training too) and shoulders engaged (pull shoulders together and head forwards..)
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You can do max hangs straight after the warm up ...even on rest days (depending on how fucked you're feeling).
Can you fuck.
OP: Making things easier can be done by decreasing weight, using more fingers, using bigger holds, reducing hang times or increasing rest times. Being shit should give you motivation - it's an obvious weakness and thus should reap gains.
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Setting up a pulley would be the obvious way of reducing weight, easily done with a cheap pullup bar and some old bits of hardware if the board is mounted over a doorway. Some folk stand on bathroom scales but never tried that myself.
Which protocol you choose depends what you're training for - if it's routes then Repeaters might be best, if it's bouldering then you could try max hangs or repeaters with less reps, I've had good gains from mixing up 4 & 3 reps with max hangs.
I start sliding off the holds
Worth noting that temperature and humidity can have a massive bearing on what you can hold rep after rep. A fan is a good investment (£15 or so for a stand fan off ebay) and if you can open windows and get the area as cool as possible.
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abarrows: I sometimes wonder why I ever post on climbing forums when this is the type of reply you get. I recall reading in 9 out of 10 climbers that fingerboarding can be done on climbing days straight after the warm up or on rest days. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no need to be a dick.
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To be fair to abarrow, doing max hangs on a rest day is whack. If you want my reasoning then:
1. Max hangs are not restful! They take a lot out of me - I don't feel tired I guess, but if I try to boulder after I notice it (unless I only do a couple, in which case I just feel recruited).
2. It wouldn't be max on a rest day because I'm normally pretty tired on rest days. Hence the need to rest.
To the OP: I'd recommend trying to reduce the hang times e.g. 5 on 5 off for 5 hangs, rather than faff around with removing weight which is often a ball ache on a home setup.
Sent from the place where beasts are made, using will power
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Indeed, if you need to rest then take a rest day. If you're tired then max hangs won't be productive and won't leave you recovered for the next day. If you don't need to rest then it's not a rest day, so train as desired. If max hangs were a rest day then we'd all train 7 days per week.
I can't be bothered to check 9/10 but I very much doubt Dave Mac advocated training on rest days
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P.ss sorry for the terse replies. Too much work and injury makes Alex an irritable mo fo. For someone new to fingerboards there's no way that hangs sessions are a rest day.
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No worries! Yeah it does seem logical that rest days wouldn't be the ideal time for max hangs, probably read it wrong. I'll re-consult 9/10.
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As Nai mentioned, it may depend a little bit on what you're traing towards, and what's your weakness.
I think starting off with something like the RCTM intermediate program(see the ancap on a FB Thread) for 2 workouts a week for 4-6 weeks is a good bet. Get a timer like the seconds app that can be programmed for the full workout, and the just turn the brain off and follow directions. After you do a cycle of repeaters, you should be good to progress to max hangs. I think starting off with repeaters helps you learn and dial in better form as you're doing so many more hangs per workout. Really focus on the form though.
A note of the "rest" issue w/ fingerboarding. The rest required is different for everyone depending on your ability to actually push to your max. Depending on whether you at at you nuerological or physical max makes a differene and someone new to FBing will generally hit their nuerological max first. This is something you MAY be able to do on consecutive days, but will heavily depend on other factors. Your training capacity also makes a huge difference. Are you doing a program that does multiple days on, followed by a longer resting period? There is no one answer, so everything has to be put into context.
Which is why this was responded to in that way.
You can do max hangs straight after the warm up before a climbing session, at home before you go out climbing or even on rest days (depending on how fucked you're feeling).
If you're doing it on a rest day, its no longer a rest day, and if you're feeling anything at all, it's not really max hangs any longer.
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Personally, to break in a hold I have trouble doing deadhangs on I do uneven hangs using a slightly better hold with the other hand.
Use the beastmaker template (7 seconds on 3 seconds off, 6 reps) but tailor the holds to ones you have an easier time of holding, maybe copy the routine until you find it getting too hard and then move back to bigger holds, say the jugs, so you can finish the set, and eventually you will be able to complete the sets without using easier holds. If you are completely new to fingerboarding, you should find gains happen pretty quickly initially as well
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Hi James,
I've been looking into what to do with my BM1000 the next few months with limited time to climb and came across this neat quote from Steve Bechtel: "fatigue has no place in strength training". I wish I had come across that before!
My experience of using the BM and the app earlier this year was that as someone who boulders 6C/7A it was great fun if you wanted to get pumped out of your box on the first set of the 5A circuit, shut down in the second set and never even attempt the third. But not to be deterred I recorded my routines religiously and tried really hard.
The first time I managed to get 42/42 on the first set of the 5A circuit I switched to the 5B circuit but changed the timings to 6" on, 4" off. By the time I managed 42/42 on that exercise I was a lot stronger and attempting 7B in the real world.
But I wouldn't recommend that approach....intention this time is more like Sasquatch recommends....to do a couple of weeks of 5B/5C repeaters as then to get used to it again then try some actual strength training on it by doing 4-10 second max hangs (whether that's two hands with weight, 1 hand, whatever), 2 minute rest, repeat 20 times. And record it.
That, and get my BMI down to 20 (from 22.5) and I reckon I should be looking at 7C. Thoughts welcome from the forum if anyone has any advice to offer on this plan?
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Ha, the beastmaker grades really are nuts!
Murph: I would suggest sacking off the third set of repeaters. Also, you could try and experiment with the grip types in the 5B/5C repeaters - you wanna aim to fail in the last hang of each minute (at least in the second set anyway).
20 max hangs sounds like a lot. And, everyone is different, but I found when doing max hangs, that (a bit counter-intuitively) really short hangs (4 seconds) weren't that beneficial.
+1 to what Sasquatch said.
Oh and I think it's normal to get really pumped when you first start doing repeaters.
Sent from the place where beasts are made, using will power
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Thanks, I hear you on the 4 seconds and 20 hangs thing. Will read up. I was thinking though that it'd be something I could hang for at least 4 and if I get to 10 then it's too easy - needs a harder hold. I'm new to strength-specific training tho and there are many slightly different programmes out there...which to choose :-\
And yes, I never do the third set of repeaters. Can't even hold jugs by that point if following the programme timings!
Nice one.
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Durrr....just seen the anaerobic capacity thread. There was me thinking that had something to do with stamina, but it's code for strength. Apologies for my slowness....
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I'm new to strength-specific training tho and there are many slightly different programmes out there...which to choose :-\
I don't think it matters very much. There's only two end-member sessions on a spectrum: 1. try really hard for not very long. 2. Try pretty hard repeatedly for a bit longer. There's no convincing evidence to suggest that one end is better than the other for getting stronger fingers (as far as I'm aware).
The progress you make seems to depend on: 1. how hard you try, 2. how well you set the intensity, 3. how much you force the progression/use small, incremental changes, and 4. how used to the session structure you are (see abarrow's thread on consistency vs variety for making decisions on when to change the session structure to get a new stimulus - again, it's not clear cut, do it by feel: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=26346.0)
I don't understand your last most Murph... Apologies for my slowness!
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Thanks again ben. Finding something and doing it is what matters I guess.
Slowness comment was just that I hadn't realised the reference to anaerobic endurance was what I was after. And Sasquatch had already pointed at it. No worries.
Cheers for link to consistency thread.
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One more comment based on the "20" hangs comment. Unlike endurance training, the benefits form strength training are in the actual maximum efforts. I honestly do not know anyone who can recruit at their max 20 times. If you are, then the likely issue is that you reps are not actually max reps. Add more weight, and quit as soon as you fail. I know it sounds ridiculous, but the strongest my fingers have ever been is a result of 8 x 10 second hangs, with the first three being progressive warmup hangs, and only 5 max hangs, with the last hang going to failure. If I got the intensity perfect, then I failed at 10seconds on hang #5. If it was a touch too high, then I failed early, if I got it a touch too low, then I'd hang longer until failure.
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8 x 10 second hangs
How long were you resting between hangs, until you felt fresh?
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3 to 5 minutes.
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Thanks Sasquatch that's great to know.
The 20 thing was just me airing what I was thinking of doing. I have no experience of strength training tho so am grateful for any advice.
Strangely enough it was an idea I got from something Alex Barrows said in another thread, where he was talking about why he didn't like strength training - cos 20 hangs, 2 min rest, it's too short a session. For me, right now, that sounds perfect.
8x10 with bigger rests would take the same amount of time. I'll keep that in mind. I want to do the opposite of my repeater experience which was too many reps not enough rest, having to skip reps to get a better "score" etc. This will be a few hard hangs and done.
Nice.
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Quite possible that I was referring to assisted 1 arm hangs, for those I rest 2 min between hangs but since it's alternating arms it's really 4 min between hard attempts on that arm. For totally maximal 10s hangs on 2 arms I usually rest 3-4 min. If the hangs are shorter (a few sec or 5 sec) I'll rest a bit less as I recover from them quicker (1-2min). Main thing is that you feel ready to try hard again - if not then rest a little more
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I still think strength training is lame and way less fun than enduro :P
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Strangely enough it was an idea I got from something Alex Barrows said in another thread, where he was talking about why he didn't like strength training - cos 20 hangs, 2 min rest, it's too short a session. For me, right now, that sounds perfect.
Moral of the story. Don't listen to anything abarrows says, especially if about strength training :jab:
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Hi Alex, FWIW, here's the thread, not sure if it was about alternate one armers?
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=21419.0
Re-reading it now it appears that Sasquatch made the same points there, that 18-19 reps is unlikely to be max anything. Funny how I didn't remember that but remembered your 20 in 40 mins comment.
Anyway I've heard it this time.
I'm going to put in a couple of sessions a week on repeaters to baseline
Then a week trying to work out a max session and how I'll do it (might swap out the BM1000 for a 2000). There's no sense me saying what this is now.
Then 8 weeks of max hangs.
All recorded religiously, supplemented by stretches, core and easy sessions in the garage/works
Current: 7Aish standard, one recent 7B tick
Goal: more 7Bs
Foolproof.
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Good Luck!
I still think strength training is lame and way less fun than enduro :P
If I got to do enduro training in Spain or the south of France I'd probably agree :)
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Many thanks for the replies everyone. I managed to get my phone wet (and break it) this weekend so haven't had a chance to read through them all properly. I'll have a read soon though when I'm home from work and have my laptop.
Regarding the goals that have been mentioned, I don't really have anything specific in mind. I'll probably boulder a bit more this winter due to the weather but I'm more of a sport climber really. I just think that doing any of the exercises and making progress will help me in either pursuit which makes it harder (or maybe easier) to choose what to do.
Anyway, I'll have a proper look later and start trying some sessions this week!
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As Nai mentioned, it may depend a little bit on what you're traing towards, and what's your weakness.
I think starting off with something like the RCTM intermediate program(see the ancap on a FB Thread) for 2 workouts a week for 4-6 weeks is a good bet. Get a timer like the seconds app that can be programmed for the full workout, and the just turn the brain off and follow directions. After you do a cycle of repeaters, you should be good to progress to max hangs. I think starting off with repeaters helps you learn and dial in better form as you're doing so many more hangs per workout. Really focus on the form though.
I've been looking at the various suggestions and I'm going to start by giving this workout a go this week. I'm assuming you mean this one: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,26487.msg504485.html#msg504485
Before starting, could you/anyone define a few things for me please (hopefully they're not too stupid questions...)
What do the acronyms "MR" and "IMR" mean in the exercises? e.g. "IMR 2-pad 3F pocket"
Also, what would count as a pinch on a fingerboard?
Thanks!
Edit - thinking about it, is a pinch just sticking your thumb in one of the lower pockets/holds? If so - is there a certain type of hold you should use for this exercise? Gentle sloper/crimp etc?
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Index, Middle, Ring, at a guess...
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Makes sense - thanks!
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Edit - thinking about it, is a pinch just sticking your thumb in one of the lower pockets/holds? If so - is there a certain type of hold you should use for this exercise? Gentle sloper/crimp etc?
The fingerboard I think there are referring to has specifically designed pinch holds. You can see pictures for all the different grips half way down this page:
https://www.trainingbeta.com/mark-and-mike-anderson-guide-to-hangboard-training/
If you are using a beastmaker, I'm not sure what the best way of pinching it is. For a BM2000 you can hold the slopers and pinch the bottom of the incut, but I think that just makes holding the slopers easier, rather than give you an alternative grip to work. I personally have my BM nailed to a large board with additional blocks at either side for pinching.
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Edit - thinking about it, is a pinch just sticking your thumb in one of the lower pockets/holds? If so - is there a certain type of hold you should use for this exercise? Gentle sloper/crimp etc?
The Anderson Bros fingerboard has dedicated pinches. As an alternative, Steve Maisch recommends hanging weights from a piece of wood then picking it up. I've been trying this for a while; picking up a 20kg kettlebell by pinching a 40mm piece of smooth finished pine is pretty hard.
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Thanks again for the replies. I'll see what I can knock up and give it a go!
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I have been doing some pinches in the same manner by using a piece of wood with a weight hanging off it and about 20kg is pretty hard.
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I have been doing some pinches in the same manner by using a piece of wood with a weight hanging off it and about 20kg is pretty hard.
Yeah, I've backed off to 16kg; with that I can do sensible ca 8 to 10 second "max" hangs. With 20kg it was touch & go whether I cpould lift it under control at all.
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Nothing to add to the responses to the ?'s
Good Luck, and 1 last piece of advice - check the ego. This is serious training and there's no place for ego here. All it will do is get you hurt. Take your time, and if anything err on the easy side for a few sessions until you get into the rhythm of it.
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ok if I post a follow up to this thread?
Have been trying what I think is strength training on a fingerboard...after a bit of trial and error I worked out I could hang the small crimps on a BM1000 with +24kgs for 6 seconds, so I thought that was a good thing to start training max hangs. After just a few hangs I wasn't able to hang even for 4 seconds so I thought this was the right level. Thought I should be aiming for 6 reps of 10 seconds as my target before moving things up a gear.
However, a few sessions in and I've just managed 1 second short of 6x10. So I'm nearly at my goal, which clearly wasn't hard enough.
Am putting up the BM2000 next to the 1000 but the small crimp really doesn't seem to be much smaller. I am imagining that it won't take long before I can max out on them as well. I had thought the 2000 would have much smaller holds but that isn't really the case.
So, with the goal being max strength for short Boulder problems (thinking one or two moves like Soft on the G) what is my best training option now - smaller hold is a given, but should I be going for more reps or adding more weight or cocking about with two/three fingers etc?
Much obliged.
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Hi Murph - I think the small hold on the 1000 is actually
Ly smaller than on the 2000!
Sounds like you have plenty of finger strength - which is useful for crimps but probably won't help much for soft on the G... Which from memory is open handed and slopey..
Can you hang the 45's yet?
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Hi tomtom,
I must admit I didn't believe you so I got the ruler out. Blimey you're right! The 2000 crimp is bigger than the 1000. Im a bit shocked. Have to wonder if it's worth putting it up now.
Can I hold the 45? Never tried but I doubt it - held the 35(?) on the 1000 for a measly 9 seconds the other day so maybe I could for a couple of seconds maybe not tho. you're suggesting that would be a useful thing to train?
I'm probably using the wrong term when I say crimps, I just mean the small holds, soft on g is an open handed right hand start....when I use the BM "crimps" I am hanging as open handed as possible - I rarely actually crimp anything. That make sense?
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Confirmed: cannot hang the 45s for even a second. Can hang 35s for 15 seconds though.
Train 35s with added weight until can hang 45s? Train small edge with even more weight?
Or are the 45s just some sort of joke?
Someone on the forum must have hit one of these dead ends and overcome...
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Sure the wads'll be along shortly to enlighten. In the meantime ... why not try some combination of:
- 6x7s on 35 deg slopes, possibly w added weight;
- one arm hangs open handed on the small crimps, possibly minus some weight using pulley;
- add another 2-5kg and continue w the hangs ur doing (open on the small crimps);
- use a crimp grip as well - something I've recently started training, albeit with caution/trepidation.
I usually try and add 2 or 3kg to each hang I do every few sessions, for a gradual progression.
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If you search you may be able to find a video of Dan wotsit of Beastmakers one arming a 45 so not a joke although I've always found trying to hang them is.
If Soft on the G is the aim, then more finger strength probably ain't gonna help you at this point, compression may though so perhaps work your chest - pressups and dumbell flys
In terms of overall finger strength the obvious progression would be assisted one arm hangs or less fingers, personal preference which, both have their merits. If you're hangs are all four fingers on the small hold it's definitely worth hanging with three in more of a drag than the chisel created by getting the pinky involved.
Mix it up maybe, try a bit of both and see how it goes. You'll probably find doing 3 fingers and combinations of 2 fingers more immediate than assisted one armers but that assisted one armers might help more in the long term due to the strengthening effect on the shoulders. Obviously as long as you don't injure yourself.
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Confirmed: cannot hang the 45s for even a second. Can hang 35s for 15 seconds though.
Is this a brand new slippery shiny home board? I'm not surprised you can't hang the 45. Try it on a nice heavily used, sticky grungy one at a wall. When I set my board up at home I could do repeaters on the 35, and hang the 45 for a couple of seconds, on beastmakers in public places. Was shocked to discover i could barely hang the 35 on mine.
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If you're hangs are all four fingers on the small hold it's definitely worth hanging with three in more of a drag than the chisel created by getting the pinky involved.
I ended up getting a Lopez transgression fingerboard because I didn't fancy messing around with multiple combos of 2 and 3 finger hangs. I might if I had a certain particularly weak finger, but otherwise i prefer regimes based around 4 finger hangs with the option of a slightly smaller hold, or a larger hold and more weight.
Worth considering, particularly if you can get a Lopez board brought over from Spain or Germany.
That said, I have a taste for simplicity / monotony / quantisation. A fingerboard of 18, 14, 12,10, 9, 8, 7, 6 mm straight edges might not appeal to lovers of variety!
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If you're hangs are all four fingers on the small hold it's definitely worth hanging with three in more of a drag than the chisel created by getting the pinky involved.
I ended up getting a Lopez transgression fingerboard because I didn't fancy messing around with multiple combos of 2 and 3 finger hangs. I might if I had a certain particularly weak finger, but otherwise i prefer regimes based around 4 finger hangs with the option of a slightly smaller hold, or a larger hold and more weight.
Worth considering, particularly if you can get a Lopez board brought over from Spain or Germany.
That said, I have a taste for simplicity / monotony / quantisation. A fingerboard of 18, 14, 12,10, 9, 8, 7, 6 mm straight edges might not appeal to lovers of variety!
Last few seasons I've been doing the RCTM repeater style stuff and doing a combination of fingers but I'm starting to think it's just a waste of time and adding potential for injury. Going to try decreasing hold size / increasing weight instead of doing multiple 'grips' of 4 fingers, first 2, middle 2 etc.
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Thanks guys much appreciated.
The 45 fail was on the one in the works. I was careful to not go over the top tho cos there's a flat top to that one. No matter. I'll train 35s with added, maybe repeaters.
Three fingers drag - of course I should be training that. The pinky changes everything the way it twists your hand sideways. Thanks.
Nai - thanks a bunch for the Soft on G tips. Finger strength is one thing I guess but actual strength is another. Shouldn't be neglected. It's on my very short "really want to do" list so a bit of specific work is justified. Certainly it wasn't fingers that let me down last time but being able to hug the arête with sufficient beans to get feet round. Cheers.
And oh yeah I would love a Lopez board or a homemade variable wood depth strip that does same. Some day I'll set that up in the garage with pulleys for the ultimate.
Thanks again everyone.
I would love a
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I am going to callously use this thread as an opportunity to gather some advice on BM'ing. I have the 2000 and have been avidly pulling on it for some time now, I have been wanting to increase pure finger strength of late so I am wondering whether my routine needs adjusting in its form or its execution (I will explain).
At the moment I am strapping on 10kg (post-warm up) and, using the BM repeater routine (7 on 3 off x6 then 2:30 rest - Repeat 4 times for a set and finish 2 or 3 sets depending on how my body is reacting) I am hanging small edge -> 35 slopers -> small edge -> small pockets mid 2. Now my question is, should I drop some fingers and stay with this routine (changing execution) or add weight and reduce the overall amount of time spent on the board (changing form)? Any combination of the two is fine.
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Caveat - Everyone is different, and there will be "strength" carry over from a wide variety of exercises.
When I train finger strength, including a second FB specific warmup, I hang for a total of 60-80 seconds over the entire workout. Your workout is 42sec x 4 x 2 = 320 seconds of hang time. Can you tell the difference, and obviously which direction I would recommend? :)
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Caveat - Everyone is different, and there will be "strength" carry over from a wide variety of exercises.
When I train finger strength, including a second FB specific warmup, I hang for a total of 60-80 seconds over the entire workout. Your workout is 42sec x 4 x 2 = 320 seconds of hang time. Can you tell the difference, and obviously which direction I would recommend? :)
Interesting. sasq - in guessing this is short bursts really close to your limit?
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I'd day that's pretty normal for Max hangs, in my last block I was experimenting with a 6-8-10-8-6 pyramid so total hang time was only 42 seconds. Saw good gains over 10 sessions.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
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@AMorris It sounds like max hangs may suit you better - read Dave Mac's blog post regarding repeaters:
http://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/fingerboarding-timings.html (http://www.onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/fingerboarding-timings.html)
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Before anyone notices:
I'd day that's pretty normal for Max hangs, in my last block I was experimenting with a 6-8-10-8-6 pyramid so total hang time was only 42 38 seconds. Saw good gains over 10 sessions.
Basically, if you want to progress on a fingerboard your options are: add more weight, reduce the size of the hold you're using, use less fingers or use less arms. Which you do will depend on a few factors including your end-goals, current level, what injuries you're working around, what facilities you have available, how long you have to fit it in and loads more.
The only way of working out what works best for you at the current time is by experimenting, treat each block as a learning experience, record your gains, if it ain't working change it, try something else, repeat to fade.
So pick a routine and go with it, there's pretty much no right or wrong, it's mostly a matter of getting on with the hard work.
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Before anyone notices:
I'd day that's pretty normal for Max hangs, in my last block I was experimenting with a 6-8-10-8-6 pyramid so total hang time was only 42 38 seconds. Saw good gains over 10 sessions.
So pick a routine and go with it, there's pretty much no right or wrong, it's mostly a matter of getting on with the hard work.
Aaaaaaaameeeeeeeen [emoji106]
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Aye. I suspect that most regimens rigorous enough to make you grimace are good enough for those not operating at the margins of the possible. Okay, some approaches might be marginally more effective than others, but the main challenge is devising one that is appealing enough that you stick to it.
Personally, a "lopez" style routine is the scheme that's had the staying power for me. Feels hard enough to seem worthwhile but in a concentrated way that avoids tedium and makes me more inclined to slot in a session even when I don't really feel like it. A progressive warm-up (sets of repeaters then hangs with gradually increasing added weight), culminating in a series of max hangs - 10s, 3 mins apart, with the amount of added weight that results in failure at 12-13s when at my best. Feels like it's working but without an identical twin to experiment on it's hard to tell.
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Seems odd to me that +10kg is right for all 5 grips. I vary by nearly 20kg between the easiest and hardest grips.
On the BM cycle I'd feel i hadnt gone hard enough if i could face a 3rd set. I add 4kg on most of the second set - as per rctm -mind.
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Caveat - Everyone is different, and there will be "strength" carry over from a wide variety of exercises.
When I train finger strength, including a second FB specific warmup, I hang for a total of 60-80 seconds over the entire workout. Your workout is 42sec x 4 x 2 = 320 seconds of hang time. Can you tell the difference, and obviously which direction I would recommend? :)
Really!? Is that when you're focusing on fingerboarding (if you do)? Is this a full session, or always followed/proceeded by bouldering or similar?
My current session is a total of 252-378 seconds on each arm, depending on whether I do 2 or 3 sets, if I complete every set (I reckon failure usually adds up to 20-60 seconds on each arm), after a warm up. I've never got on with Eva Lopez/very short sets though.
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Caveat - Everyone is different, and there will be "strength" carry over from a wide variety of exercises.
When I train finger strength, including a second FB specific warmup, I hang for a total of 60-80 seconds over the entire workout. Your workout is 42sec x 4 x 2 = 320 seconds of hang time. Can you tell the difference, and obviously which direction I would recommend? :)
Really!? Is that when you're focusing on fingerboarding (if you do)? Is this a full session, or always followed/proceeded by bouldering or similar?
My current session is a total of 252-378 seconds on each arm, depending on whether I do 2 or 3 sets, if I complete every set (I reckon failure usually adds up to 20-60 seconds on each arm), after a warm up. I've never got on with Eva Lopez/very short sets though.
My full MAW workout(lopez version), which is preceded by a rest day, and is generally done without any other finger work is:
WU 3 x (20 sec bar hang, 15 sec rest, 5pullups, 15 sec rest, 5 ATB's, 15 sec rest)
FB WU - 10 x (10 sec hang, 30sec rest) these are progressive hangs starting unweighted on a jug, and ending with a 10 sec unweighted hang on the workout edge.
Progressive hangs - 3 x 10 sec hang adding weight each time
Max hangs - 3-5 x 10 sec at max weight
For my 5/3/1 version, I warm up bouldering easy for about 15 minutes.
Then 3 x 5 x 3sec, progressing in difficulty each time,
then 3 x 5/3/1 x 3sec (depends on the week), progressing to a single actual max set.
So on a MAW workout, the total hanging time is 295-315 seconds including ALL warmup, 60-80seconds of harder hangs.
On my 5/3/1 workouts, its 72-90seconds totally hanging after warming up bouldering.
I've got nothing against repeaters, but I don't think they are a "max strength" workout. They are more of a "strength endurance" workout. Think of it this way, a repeater takes a minute to finish of all equally hard "moves". That is more akin to a 12-18 move problem of consistent difficulty. Is that "Strength" or "Strength Endurance"?
So when you assess your goals and training to meet those goals, is that what you need to train?
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Cheers for the detailed reply Sas. That does look like max strength! I'm amazed you can warm up so fast. I've tried similar sessions in the past but never felt like they worked very well for me, hence why I do more volume now. Each to their own!
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Cheers for the detailed reply Sas. That does look like max strength! I'm amazed you can warm up so fast. I've tried similar sessions in the past but never felt like they worked very well for me, hence why I do more volume now. Each to their own!
This warm up:
WU 3 x (20 sec bar hang, 15 sec rest, 5pullups, 15 sec rest, 5 ATB's, 15 sec rest)
FB WU - 10 x (10 sec hang, 30sec rest) these are progressive hangs starting unweighted on a jug, and ending with a 10 sec unweighted hang on the workout edge.
Progressive hangs - 3 x 10 sec hang adding weight each time
Takes me about 20 minutes, and progresses from big muscle group to specific fingers and increases incrementally to max hangs.
If I do three max hans, I am done with the fB workout in 30min, 45 if I do 5 Max hangs... seems like too little, but 20 min WU, and only 10min of max work. As I mentioned earlier. It can be hard to recognize how little is needed for strength training.