UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: Doylo on July 19, 2004, 10:38:37 am
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Checkout 8a.nu. The big JG has repeated Gossip font 8c in the jura and another 8b+. Be interesting to hear how hard he thinks they are compared to his own creations!
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GODSKINS
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:angel: :angel: :owned:
I don't have the words...legend.
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Would you believe that Markus Bock is having a dig at John and questioning his honesty on the 8a.nu site. Never have I heard such bollocks.
John is a genuine honest bloke and thankfully the site have given him right to reply.
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Yeah, but he obviously made the mistake of not having a film crew and witnesses in tow :wink:
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they'reprobably just sore that thier swiss-graded euro problems getting dicked all over by an on-form gaskizzle. :lol:
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:( That tale is saddening because they were actually in contact with each other and instead of ringing or texting John to query him, he's just gone and stuck it on the web site.
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:( That tale is saddening because they were actually in contact with each other and instead of ringing or texting John to query him, he's just gone and stuck it on the web site.
word. the muthabocka has done the exact opposite of what has been discussed on't 'witch hunt' thread. shame.
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That piece on 8a.nu reads like a dose of sour grapes.
Bocks hardest problem which he oddly retrograded 8C (was orginally 8B+ til the 8C grade came around) gets blasted in double quick time and he just can't take it. :lol: :lol:
Go Gaskins, go Gaskins, go Gaskins..... :lol:
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how fast the man nailed the problems makes you wonder if all his probs in the uk are FAR harder than he has said.
what an effort.
it is sad to read the response to his sends. he is right where he says that he has never tried to build a reputation for himself. if anything it appears that he tries his hardest to keep himself to himself.
wait till he nails action direct, then he will be laughing.
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I do most of my climbing and bouldering midweek when the crowds have gone home and have done for years. Does this mean I will now have to get my dog an opposable thumb so he can work a video camera or have one surgically implanted in my arse? Can anyone recommend a suitable model without too many sharp edges and protruding buttons? :evil:
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Kate Moss?? On second thoughts she's got a few sharp edges.
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I think Naiomi Campbell would be better, more use as a spotter, he rage will help you stick those finishing holds and she may have a little white powder to help you get up those highballs :lol:
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Further response from Gaskins to Bock's accusations on 8a.nu :
"I've just looked at what you've written/published, more specifically Markus' comments.
Re. Zerberus: The line I climbed (as Markus knows) was neither the 7C nor Zerberus, rather it was a line in between the 2 and using holds of both. To me this was the central line (which was the line I had been told Zerberus was, whereas Zerberus is really left of centre). Markus appears to be being deliberately misleading people regarding this problem to support his story.
The reach thing on Gossip is rubbish, it really is not that far between the holds, although very good body tension is a prerequiste. The distance is certainly less, and on better holds, than between the holds on my own problem, At the Heart of it All (Woodwell) which also crosses a roof.
I would not say meeting at 2:30 in the afternoon is climbing all day with someone. Whilst my only attempt on the 8A was an attempted flash.
I could continue but I have no interest in a "one side says this, another that argument", merely I wish to add perspective to Markus' comments which have, at best, minimal foundation in what actually happened, whilst most are totally inaccurate.
P.S. Markus has put the wrong year on his dates (2005 rather than 2004). Also the date of my ascent of Riot Act is wrong, as also is his assertion that I climbed Riot Act the day I arrived in the Frankenjura."
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I look forward to the grovelling apology from Bock.
More shameful, jealous nonsense - what is happening to climbing culture?
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how fast the man nailed the problems makes you wonder if all his probs in the uk are FAR harder than he has said.
The reach thing on Gossip is rubbish, it really is not that far between the holds, although very good body tension is a prerequiste. The distance is certainly less, and on better holds, than between the holds on my own problem, At the Heart of it All (Woodwell) which also crosses a roof.
:lol: I'm glad he's put that straight it now sounds a lot better for him, considering what he's done and how little media attention he gets it's obvious that he's not in it for the sponsorship/money as is being insinuated else where.
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go gaskins go gaskins go
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I really hope that Gaskins gets on Action Directe and gets it double quick. The one route Bock hasn't done. That'd really twist the knife.
:lol: :lol:
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preferably with a downgrade. :8)
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Don't think anyone can downgrade A.D. - it's considered the benchmark 9a innit?
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no, but you could retro upgrade your problems ;)
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it's considered the benchmark 9a innit?
apparently not by ben moon - there was some OTE article about it years ago.
think wolfgang gid it X or whatever the UIAA grade is whcih sites at the top end of 8c+. then everyone else said it was 9a. but then agagin who's going to downgrade what was the hardest thing in the world?and its only had like 4 or 5 ascents innit? a bit like dreamtime was thought of is benchmark 8c, no-one downgraded that till malc and that was after a fair few sends.
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Yeah, but Ben hasn't done it :P
It's only had five ascents I think - see Steve Mac's PF article (http://curbar.planetfear.com/climbing/features/howto/magic-grades/9a.html) for all your 9a needs....
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The baldee headed crimp god has replied to the slurs against his character again on 8a, including the line "Body tension is a prerequisite". Gaskins - body tension? nah..!
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of course you can retro-grade your own prob if no one else has done it n you feel you were being too generous or too sandbagging after a bit of reflection.
why are we goin on about the grade of dreamtime, so malc has said it's 8b+. i'm pretty sure everyone else has took the 8c tick. if grades are formed by consensus, which they are, dreamtime has had prob 8 ascents n only one person has spoke out. same with A.D.
now i know people don't like to argue with big grades cos it spoils there scorecards, but that's another story.
is gaskins still in the jura? if i where him i would get my wife to video me pathing the prob, downgrade it n then piss on the startin holds. :worthy:
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dunning thought 8b+ as well and a few wouldn' comment on the grade. i think it was core and sharma who never confirmed nor downgraded. in fact has anyone actually came and said 'yes that problem is 8c' i don't think they have.
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I reckon part of the problem is that 8c is still so cutting edge, and people have done so few of them, it must be hard for anyone to step forward and give a definitive grade.
And, the harder things get, surely the more morpho they become, so one man/womans 8c is another's 8b+ and another's 8c+ ?
morpho is probably the wrong term to use here, but you know what i mean.
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yeah totally, but not commenting is definitly the easy way. not offending the first ascensionist by downgrading but not confirming so not offending the doubters either. but yeah i agree a lot of hard problems simply don't get enough repeats but dreamtime is the exception to that one. its had 9 now i think.
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i notice that 8a.nu have now removed all the blurb by Marcus Block and Gaskins reply
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I met the dude from 8a.nu whilst in swiss and read the unadulterated mails from both. Gaskins' response was a very un-egocentric mail explaining how disappointed he was that after putting the hours in over the years people doubt his achievements. And Marcus's sounded like someone with his nose out of joint.
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did said dude tell you why he didn't put the uncensored letters in? it's not as if it's a mag n it's got to keep space to a minimum. if it were a perfect world i think that site would be proper bo, one for dave there.
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Dunno mate, he wanted to know if I had ever met his holiness (which I haven't) and whether I'd seen him climb (again, I haven't) and all I could offer was that I have looked at his problems, some of which lest we forget have been on videos (do i mean stick it?) and they have very small or no holds and the living end.
The body tension comment made me chuckle though. I bet you could use him as a work bench.
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just googled for Markus Bock and it came up with this photo:
(http://www.bmlv.gv.at/archiv/a1999/images/991115-tuerkei-foto-4.jpg)
:lol:
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Don't really get it ... The dude, that'd be me, actually DID publish John's email, unaltered and all...
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Don't really get it ... The dude, that'd be me, actually DID publish John's email, unaltered and all...
yeah but someone on cocktalk posted up the full version of markus bock's email from some german site which had a extra stuff not on 8a.nu.
basically sayin "i spoke to ben and jerry and they say not everyone believes his ascent of hubble" or summat like that.
:roll: :?
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Ah, OK, that actually was in the email I got from Markus, but as I haven't had time to talk to Ben or Jerry (being on vacation mind you), I thought it wouldn't be right to mention their names...
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Why not just mention this little lot instead?
Kaizen, Woodwell (V14)
Anaesthesia, Woodwell (V13)
Isla de Encanta, Woodwell O'ert Road (V13)
Il Pirata, Trowbarrow (V15)
At the Heart of it All, Woodwell, (V14)
Walk Away, Fairy Steps (V13)
Walk Away Sit Start, Fairy Steps (V15)
Violent New Breed, G-Spot (F9a+/V15)
2nd (?) ascent Little Women RH, Little Font (V13/14)
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chuffin hell! don't you love the internet.
Hi Bjorn! wish I was there!
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Hi Bjorn, has it occurred to you that what you've actually done is make a very big mistake.
What on earth posessed you to give public platform to the paranoid, jealous rantings of Bock, without making an attempt to sort the disagreement out in private?
Such a cheap shot.
As it stands, Bock now has a nasty reputation, and your website has lost all credibility.
A total disgrace - you should be ashamed of yourself.
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I think any blame needs to be equally apportioned between 8a.nu and Martin Joisten's site, climbing.de, who were also very quick to jump on the defamatory bandwagon.
Fucking disgraceful behaviour. Time to go and stare at the Atlantic again and wonder whatthefuck has happened to the sport I used to love, methinks :(
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I disagree simon,
The matter could certainly have been handled in a bettter way, but at least this time unlike other similar matters, Markus was willing to put his name and reputation up on the line for something he obviously believed in. I also remember him saying to his opinion John hasnt climbed these problems, which is a rarety these days.
Also it gave John a chance to reply and give his side of the story, and hence the matter seemed to have been sorted out.
I also disagree that it has damaged Markus Bocks reputation and also made him look jealous, Maybe to British people it will have, but to most it seemed that Markus was truly worried that someone had claimed a substantial repeat to a problem of his home area which sounded doubtful. Hence he questioned Johns ascent.
I would have thought most Frankenjura climbers will respect Markus for what he did. Lets not forget that their is a huge climbing scene away from Britain that people also feel stongly about.
Lets also not forget that from a unbiased point of view Markus did have some valid points about his doubts of Johns ascents. But perhaps didnt express them in the best way.
I just hope this matter is sorted out and John will keep his reputation as been a world class climber, not only in Britain but throughout the rest of the world.
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me
did said dude tell you why he didn't put the uncensored letters in?
bjorn
Don't really get it ... The dude, that'd be me, actually DID publish John's email, unaltered and all...
and your next post was
Ah, OK, that actually was in the email I got from Markus, but as I haven't had time to talk to Ben or Jerry (being on vacation mind you), I thought it wouldn't be right to mention their names...
why did you write the first line when it's not true, good intentions or not? you have just come on here telling it how it is n then changed your mind when someone has said they've seen something else. it is things like that that begin to form doubts. :? would you have come out with the second part if someone hadn't have pulled you up? i think not. it is beginning to seem like our european friends do not actually lie they just leave out important information!
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Oh well, my mistake... not that I think it's such a significant one.
I must say I think some people are overreacting quite a bit. Maybe they should try to think a little bit further and stop being so bloody home blind (that goes for some Germans too). What I've tried to do is to give both parties an oportunity to tell their respective stories.
Are you aware of the fact that neither Markus nor John is complaining?
How'd you've handled this Mr. "Pantontino"? Please enlighten me!
PS. Here's the piece I chose not to publish, exclusively for ukbouldering:
"JERRY MOFFATT has seen him trying HUBBLE one week before JOHN said he climbed HUBBLE. JERRY doesn't believe him that he has done it, cause he has done the moves with ropepull" DS.
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was j g not repeating hubble regularly when he was trying the brandenburg project?
:?
jg writes on 8a.nu
"indeed I will very soon move on to concentrate on my work career."
now that would be a shame :( . surely not quit climbing.
anyway i have witnessed the guy climbing and there is 100% no doubt in my mind
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Yes Gaskins has repeated Hubble with ease during visits to try his Tor project. Quite a few people have seen him do this!
Bjorn, I think you made an error of judgement by publishing Markus' allegations. I understand that he's a bit put out that Gaskins did his problem in 3 days in a way that he regards as "impossible", but the thing to do would have been to consult Gaskins man to man. This would have been easy since he had John's phone number and obviously lives near the Frankenjura. In that way his more ridiculous "evidence" could have been cleared up and he might well be giving John the respect he fully deserves. By publishing his allegations you condone his cowardice and set a damaging precedent. Hopefully John's reputation won't be unfairly blotted.
Did you tell John that you were going to publish the allegations, and his reply?
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Lads, don't come down so hard on Björn - 8a.nu is one of the best sources for worldwide climbing information, and all he's done is publish contents of mails that have been sent in to his site - which isn't a huge crime...
Most of us on here believe the Gaskin's side of things because of his awesome and flawless record of dispatching the hardest shit in the UK, but I can kinda sympathise with the Bockster, though in this case I reckon his doubts are misplaced.
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Nigel,
yes, I told both John and Markus my decision to publish the story:
"The reason is that I believe it's better to make it public where you both can have a chance to respond and where everyone gets to see both sides. Otherwise the story would have leaked out anyway on various forums, message boards etc. and I think that would be worse as this would, no doubt, be heavily biased."
According to Markus, he tried to contact John to sort the thing out, but didn't get an answer.
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I'd agree with that - I don't see he's done much wrong. Don't shoot the messenger :wink:
The way I see it, Gaskins has come out of this unscathed, whilst Bock looks bad. Now thats just a UK point of view, but what if Bjorn hadn't posted up the emails....
...all we'd know is that Gaskins had claimed some ascents, but that 'none of the locals believed him'...
Now personally I'd rather read both sides and make my own mind up. If allegations are to be made, its much better they are made in public where peeps have a chance to make a public reply. In some respects Bock deserves some respect for being prepared to do this... much better than the rumour mill I reckon. It looks like he was wrong and has paid the price... if he'd kept quiet it's unlikely any of us would have been well informed enough to form an objective opinion. The little side rumours that back things up are often easily sorted even if the main issue isn't - ie jerry the reliable witness or bird's nests in holds... giving us all a clearer view.
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“Maybe it's wrong to make this public†– you're damn right!
http://www.8a.nu/site2/news.php?country=GLOBAL
Bjorn, you ask what I would have done – I've already stated the glaringly obvious option of dealing with this in private, before going public with a damaging (both to John, Bock and 8a.nu in the long run) splurge of tabloid nonsense. Pretty simple really. Why didn't you forward Markus' email directly to John, so that it could be sorted out? If Markus still wanted to go public after hearing John's defence, then I would have respected your decision to ‘hang the dirty washing up' a lot more.
These sort of accusations fly around the climbing scene all the time. I've lost count of the number of similar attacks that I've heard, yet I've never thought to myself, ‘I know, I'll stick this lot up on a website, create a load of bad feeling and burn as many bridges as I can, then worry about the consequences later.' I'm sick to death of this sort of bitchy back stabbing, jealous bullshit, and I certainly don't want to read any more of it on the internet. Maybe that's where we differ most.
Back to the case in hand:
I found your assertion that John was ‘happy' with the way things had been handled by 8a.nu. as a little suspicious, so I called him last night and he told me a rather different story.
It turns out that John is far from happy at the way he has been treated.
8a.nu implied that the first statement from John was a direct reply, at least that is how I read it – anyway, it wasn't. Bjorn merely informed John that Bock had doubted his ascents. John replied, stating roughly what had happened, but crucially unaware of the specific points that Bock had made. He had not seen the original email from Bock at this point.
It was only later when he saw it all published online that he was able to address the specific points and argument that Bock put forward. Thus his second reply is far more specific in it's critique of Bock's jumbled, inaccurate statement.
Clearly the way in which John's first reply was presented potentially undermined John's credibility (as it appears that he had not entirely addressed the detail of Bock's accusations) - whether this was done in an unwitting or calculated fashion is a moot point. Whatever the truth, you owe John an apology, both for publicly embarrassing him, and for compromising his position by not sending him Bock's e-mail.
All this bullshit clouds what has actually happened. John said he had a great time in FJ, met some great people and enjoyed the climbing. Interestingly he thought that Gossip would rate soft touch V14 – easier than ATHOIA, but in a completely different (i.e. much easier) league to Il Pirata.
PS: Richard, JB, I wonder how you would feel if you were on the receiving end of this sort of public attack? It's easy to say it's okay when you're not involved.
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Hear hear Simon. Agreed on every word.
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Yeah thanks for getting in touch with John and setting the record straight Si.
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hmmm... details do make it look a little different. The whole thing might have been avoided had there been a little less rush to go public. Whther rumours might have persisted is another matter...
As for being on the receiving end of such an attack, I'd like to think I'd find it highly amusing. I'll admit that's easy for me to say as its not gonna happen - I don't climb hard enough for anyone to care, and very rarely alone.
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So I see Dave Graham has just done New Base Line @ Magic Wood in 2 days and no one got all Bocky about it :twisted: I fucking hate all this big ego shite
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on the plus side it is really nice to see j g getting the support he undoubtedly deserves from all in the uk.
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and no one got all Bocky about it
like that one tc, that'll be comin out a bit this winter in banter :D
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I look forward to the grovelling apology from Bock.
More shameful, jealous nonsense - what is happening to climbing culture?
I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one? Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure, also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day without working on it: Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone? Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D
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how fast the man nailed the problems makes you wonder if all his probs in the uk are FAR harder than he has said.
what an effort.
it is sad to read the response to his sends. he is right where he says that he has never tried to build a reputation for himself. if anything it appears that he tries his hardest to keep himself to himself.
wait till he nails action direct, then he will be laughing.
he will never nail action or if he does then alone without belayer as his recent 9a+ :lol:
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Are you taking the piss?
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I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one? Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure, also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day without working on it: Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone? Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D
I'm listening to you, but all i can hear is "mwar mwar mwar mwar sour grapes sour grapes sour grapes boo hoo hoo". :cry: :crying:
:nopity:
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I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one? Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure, also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day without working on it: Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone? Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D
I'm listening to you, but all i can hear is "mwar mwar mwar mwar sour grapes sour grapes sour grapes boo hoo hoo". :cry: :crying:
:nopity:
Poor You, c'mon admit that recent Gaskins climbs are strange, no belayers etc, british ethic??? :lol:
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Poor You, c'mon admit that recent Gaskins climbs are strange, no belayers etc, british ethic??? :lol:
as far as i know, he's only done that once. if you can let us know of any other "recent Gaskins climbs" that are strange. sounds to me like a throwaway comment that you can't back up.
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I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one?
He didn't climb the 7c problem though.
Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure,
Or you didn't think it was worth working, you wanted to do other things, etc...
also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day
Even after you've been climbing for 8 hours or so?
Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone?
Do you know what the problem's like and how he actually belayed himself? It's not that strange.
Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D
He didn't send the details in.
Seems to me you've been reading too many Forums and not enough facts/information. :roll:
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Poor You, c'mon admit that recent Gaskins climbs are strange, no belayers etc, british ethic??? :lol:
as far as i know, he's only done that once. if you can let us know of any other "recent Gaskins climbs" that are strange. sounds to me like a throwaway comment that you can't back up.
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What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless You have noone to climb with (poor You) or want to finish career with a spectacular effort.( h admited that he wants to focus on something else now, carreer, its on 8a site)
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Do you know what the problem's like and how he actually belayed himself? It's not that strange.
How did he belay himself?
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He tied the rope off to a bolt fed out nuff slack to get to the top then he clipped the next runner as he went past. As he didn't fall off the system was never tested.
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I think that Markus is an homest guy as all frankenjura climbers are, strange that a top climber cannot distinguish a 7c problem from an 8b one?
He didn't climb the 7c problem though.
Yeah now it turns out that it was something in the middle, well thats a new 8b then or not becouse if not then he still cannot see the diffrence between 8b font and something easier
Also if You dont stick it flash You could have another go unless You are scared of failure,
Or you didn't think it was worth working, you wanted to do other things, etc... there is always such possibility but it was 8a font after all if he was so good on it it wouldnt take much
also I do not believe that You cant do the moves on a route one day and climb it the other day
Even after you've been climbing for 8 hours or so? it wasnt that he was tired, he just couldnt reach it,
Also strange to make a first ascent of a new 9a+ in uK without a belayer after having so much disscusion. Is it so hard to find someone?
Do you know what the problem's like and how he actually belayed himself? It's not that strange. I repeat is it hard to find someone to belay after so much fuss in Franken, after all he is claiming the real top difficulty.
Or if You are not bothered about publicity why claim it at all. Frankenjura is hard, mayby it was too hard? :D
He didn't send the details in. You are right but then how did everyone know? it doesnt matter if You send the details or not You claim it and thats it.
Seems to me you've been reading too many Forums and not enough facts/information. :roll:
Seems to me that You want Your hero and it doesnt matter at what cost, british vs rest of the world hurray
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What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah
now i understand what those words mean, but that sentence makes no sense.
as far as i can tell, he tied the rope off to the first bolt as presumable he had no-one to belay him that day and was obviously keen to get it done. its hardly surprising belayers aren't forthcoming, since he must have used up a fair few on the raven tor project. Kroolis is just trying to make an issue out of nothing, presumable as a half-assed dig back at him for some reason. unfortunatley it doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny or indeed make any sense.
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What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah
now i understand what those words mean, but that sentence makes no sense.
as far as i can tell, he tied the rope off to the first bolt as presumable he had no-one to belay hime that day and was obviosuly keen to get it done. its hardly surprising belayers aren't forthcoming, since he must have used a fair few on the raven tor project. Kroolis is jus trying to make an issues out of nothing, presumable as a half-assed dig back at him for some reason. unfortunatley it doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny or indeed make any sense.
Sorry You feel that way, try reading again mayby I just belive Markus doubts not Gaskins explanations, why not.
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i still wanna know what this means:
What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah
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Seems to me that You want Your hero and it doesnt matter at what cost, british vs rest of the world hurray
I'm very sorry for poking big holes in all your points. I'm not bothered about a hero, or British verus World, etc.. I was just trying to point out the truths, but if you want to ignore these and just pretend it's personal then fair enough, but it doesn't exactly make for a good debate. Are you going to say anything new, if not you might as well just post a link to a forum that's already got this shit on it.
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i still wanna know what this means:
What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique that seems unnecessary unless ......blah blah blah
That means if You claim the hardest route in UK You have to be absolutely honest and I do not see why not have a belayer, thats the first time I hear about this way, and if You don care dont claim it at all or climb it again with someone, thats what rouhling did with hugh, akira he just convinced someone although he doesnt seem to be bothered by publicity either.
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Seems to me that You want Your hero and it doesnt matter at what cost, british vs rest of the world hurray
I'm very sorry for poking big holes in all your points. I'm not bothered about a hero, or British verus World, etc.. I was just trying to point out the truths, but if you want to ignore these and just pretend it's personal then fair enough, but it doesn't exactly make for a good debate. Are you going to say anything new, if not you might as well just post a link to a forum that's already got this shit on it.
Just the last one was slightly personal after dave got personal with me, and the rest is genuine i think.
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That means if You claim the hardest route in UK You have to be absolutely honest and I do not see why not have a belayer, thats the first time I hear about this way,
as i've said already, if you wanna do something and you've not got a belay then you've no choice. maybe he wanted to get it done before he went on holiday or before it got warm? ever considered that? as for being honest, he didn't have to tell us he did it alone did he, he could have not mentioned it. thats honesty.
If you can show me where i've "got personal" then please do. You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that gaskins is regularly witnessed climbing very hard things, like pissing up hubble when working the 9a+/9b brandenburg gate project, and the 9a+ was a project of his for years. Theres absolutley no reason to treat the lack of a belayer as anything other than an amusing curiosity, unless you've got some kind of irrational dislike of him. theres no track record of gaskins being anything less than honest.
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Kroolis, as you appear to have either not read, or understood any of the many points made in this debate, perhaps we should go back to basics:
Do you understand what the words 'respect' and 'trust' mean?
Respect is earned by demonstrating your character and your ability. John has done this time and time again, either on film or in front of other 'respected' witnesses. Thus John has respect.
Once you have respect, you are trusted.
I respect John and I can see that his explanation of how the events unfolded is entirely plausible.
Pretty simple really.
As for Bock's motives for trying to discredit and smear John's name, the only conclusion I can come to, is that he is jealous - an ugly human emotion, but a very common one.
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not one person on this forum can say that kroolis isn't making sense from his (frankenjura) point of view. if bockstar came to the lakes n couldn't pull on to, for instance, ATHOIA while godskins was stood there givin him beta n then a couple of days later said he'd done it, n that he'd also done walk away when he first came over, n couldn't distinguish between kaizen n the 8a to the left. what would we be sayin, we'd be sayin we don't believe bockstar.
we know that godskins is mutant, it's no surprise that he couldn't pull any moves on gossip after 9 hours. i can't, myself, see what's so bad about not doing an 8a first go either. do the frankenjura boys know that godskins is not noted for his onsight ability? the route thing is strange, how many of us would have believed this of anyone else?
you can argue over this any way you like, depending on what mood you were in. without credible witnesses or unedited video it just goes on belief like it always has and then you get crag rumour.
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The fact is that Bock should have contacted John directly, and he should have done more indepth research on John's reputation in the UK climbing scene, before he decided to blow this rancid mess up in public.
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not one person on this forum can say that kroolis isn't making sense from his (frankenjura) point of view...., n couldn't distinguish between kaizen n the 8a to the left. what would we be sayin, we'd be sayin we don't believe bockstar.
All kroolis' points were very similar to Bock's and john answered them on 8a.nu, he didn't think the climb either the 7c or the 8-whatever he climbed a line inbetween them both using holds from both.
the route thing is strange, how many of us would have believed this of anyone else?.
If someone else climbing this hard, who has a track record for being honest would have done it I would have belived them eg, Tim C, Malc S, as there's no reason not to.
you can argue over this any way you like, depending on what mood you were in. without credible witnesses or unedited video it just goes on belief like it always has and then you get crag rumour.
Or you get no work done! :wink: This is old ground and kroolis is not saying anything that hasn't already been said on other forums/this thread or bringing any new information, just an opposing point of view.
:yawn:
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What I mean is recent Frankenjura issiue, which should have made him a it considerate when claiming 9a+ done alone with strange belay technique...
To put you right, John made the first ascent of Violent New Breed 9a+ on June 21st, *before* coming to the Frankenjura. So your point becomes worthless.
I don't know why you are bringing up the issue of VNB, but I'll give you a few facts:
John's belaying arrangement was not "strange", it was perfectly sensible way of doing this route without a belayer. It only has 2 bolts, you tie off the rope to the first one (leaving enough slack to reach the top). Tied on, you climb unprotected the very easy lower wall (3/4 metres) to the first bolt, from here you can reach up and clip the slack through the second bolt from a good hold, now execute a 4 move V15 in safety.
The fact that John had no belayer is not too surprising as he generally climbs his harder problems between 5 and 8 in the morning. You try getting a belayer for these times! Also he had tried VNB on approaching 100 days or something daft, so finding a way of climbing it alone makes sense. It also makes it very unlikely that he would lie; if he was going to lie about it I would have thought he'd have done it sooner!
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the route thing is strange, how many of us would have believed this of anyone else?.
that was a take on his eccentricity :wink: