UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: mctrials23 on March 04, 2016, 03:00:13 pm
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Simple question really. How strong are you on three finger open vs 4 finger half crimp or the usual 4 finger semi open hand grip that is quite common. I'm trying to avoid crimping as much as possible at the moment to heal an injury and it's pretty humbling. I would usually sneak the pinkie onto holds which isn't a strong finger but seems to add more than its fair share to my grip strength.
I reckon I'm about 30-40% weaker on open 3 than half crimp on 4.
How's everyone else.
As a quick aside, if I have an a2 injury can I campus open handed if I am very strict without the likelihood of injuring it more?
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How are you measuring this?
Also, do you want to know how strong we are open handed or what the difference is between our open and closed crimping?
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I'm 15kg+ stronger on 4 finger open hand (chisel) compared to full crimp
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I'm 15kg+ stronger on 4 finger open hand (chisel) compared to full crimp
I ain't got no figures but like my main Sharkey O says, I'm stronger open than crimp
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I challenge anyone to hang an edge with 4 fingers in a genuinely open-handed manner. All this talk of 4 finger open, or 'open crimp' is dumb. Open crimp is a freakin' oxymoron.
Open = drag. Essentially not possible with 4 fingers on an edge unless you have weird finger lengths
Natural = normal position, what you lot probably mean by 'open'. It's not really open.
Forced half crimp = what it says on the tin
Crimp = what it says on the tin
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There are no "normal" positions on a fingerboard. Can we just call them open, chisel and crimp? Thumbs can be mentioned if used
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I challenge anyone to hang an edge with 4 fingers in a genuinely open-handed manner. All this talk of 4 finger open, or 'open crimp' is dumb. Open crimp is a freakin' oxymoron.
Open = drag. Essentially not possible with 4 fingers on an edge unless you have weird finger lengths
Natural = normal position, what you lot probably mean by 'open'. It's not really open.
Forced half crimp = what it says on the tin
Crimp = what it says on the tin
can I have an infographic please?
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I reckon the nature of the edge(size, slopey, incut, friction?), and the time held (and of course thus the load) matters a lot in this comparison.
For me two arms on a 1+ pad(ish) edge (e.g. medium campus rung) doing a set of repeaters, "open" hand beats the half crimp position by around 30-40 lbs if I use 3 fingers for both. One arm 5s max hangs on a low friction slightly sloping half-pad edge? Crimp for the win, I can't even imagine open-handing it.
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I'm 15kg+ stronger on 4 finger open hand (chisel) compared to full crimp
I ain't got no figures but like my main Sharkey O says, I'm stronger open than crimp
Say what!?!?! you can hold smaller holds open handed than fully crimped?? impressive shizzle!
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I'm talking 3 fingers open hand. No sneaking the pinkie on and calling it open handed.
3 fingers open vs 4 finger 1/2 crimp / chisel essentially. I'm not really after the specifics of exercises you do with each, just an approximation of the relative strength of the 2 against each other.
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I think I'm even, although:
- I don't train front3 drag anymore;
- I did some tests for half crimp and front3 drag, but on different holds. Incut central rung of BM for half crimp, small three fingers slot of BM for front3 drag.
Front3 is very skin and conditions dependant.
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If I've got 4 fingers on a hold its half crimped :shrug:
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FYI have have the hands of a well endowed lesbian
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like Peter Dinklage?
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If we're just talking about deadhanging then I'm stronger with just 3 fingers on than with all 4. Can hang the middle incut BM rung fairly comfortably with 3 fingers fully open but if I put my pinkie on then I cant hang it at all, no matter what position (chisel/crimp/natural/4 finger open/whatever you want to call it). Same with any edge that is near the limit of what I can hang one armed.
It's different when it comes to climbing (unless it's on pockets). I think because 4 fingers on gives a more stable wrist so moving off holds is easier.
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Had finger injuries in the past and always train open handed. Was in font recently and was noted by others that I didn't crimp at all! Started to feel unnatural. Coming home I tried a move on a problem I've been attempting that I'd never done before. Hard crimp with right hand, hold to bring left hand over to pinch. Was able to do the move once by boneing the hell out of the crimp as a crimp but not open handed. Quite exciting.
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I'm 15kg+ stronger on 4 finger open hand (chisel) compared to full crimp
absolute values are meaningless unless you're working out how many pies you can eat should you want to switch between open handing and crimping full time - normalise the values!
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I'm 15kg+ stronger on 4 finger open hand (chisel) compared to full crimp
absolute values are meaningless unless you're working out how many pies you can eat should you want to switch between open handing and crimping full time - normalise the values!
The tone of the OP was such that it suggested that it was impossible to be stronger on open hand (chisel) whereas I wanted to make the point that that wasn't necessarily the case.
For the record I guesstimate about 87kg vs 102kg = 18% stronger chiselled on an 18mm edge subject to gurns and conditions.
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infinitely stronger open handed. in fact max hangs half crimp feel so unnatural to me i must be weak as piss on them so really should train them more .......
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infinitely stronger open handed. in fact max hangs half crimp feel so unnatural to me i must be weak as piss on them so really should train them more .......
It's prob hard to tell if you really are weaker or if it just feels so unnatural that you can't try as hard and just seems to be weaker. Think that's what happens with me. Can't see why an open had would be stronger!
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Can't see why an open had would be stronger!
Err cos I’ve trained open handed for 20+ years and its predominantly the way I climb. (Principals of specificity - I train & climb open handed therefore I have become stronger open handed.)
Old school training advice used to be to open hand everything to avoid injury but in reality all you are doing in strengthening tendons and neglecting pulleys therefore its not going to end well if you do have to crimp had at your limit.
It always amuses me when I get a "New" bit of beta for something which consists of crimping rather than open handing stuff, which puts me 3 inches closer to the next hold - job done !
Re the OP campusing will a pulley injury :o- you might get away with it on something rounded like the crusher sloper rungs but if its really fecked you are just going to have to suck it up and train something else for a while. (lock offs & weighted pulls on something rounded?) personally I’d be going for option 2!
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Can't see why an open had would be stronger!
Err cos I’ve trained open handed for 20+ years and its predominantly the way I climb. (Principals of specificity - I train & climb open handed therefore I have become stronger open handed.)
I have prioritised the crimp in my fingerboard sessions for over a year just tacking on some open handed (chisels) at the end of the session. Guess what? I got better gains in my open handed strength so the disparity between the two has widened.
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Re the OP campusing will a pulley injury :o- you might get away with it on something rounded like the crusher sloper rungs but if its really fecked you are just going to have to suck it up and train something else for a while. (lock offs & weighted pulls on something rounded?) personally I’d be going for option 2!
I did say open handed campussing. I assumed that if climbing open handed should be ok with an A2 injury there would be no issue with campussing open handed.
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Erm, doesn't it depend on the hold? I defy anyone to have greater strength on a 4mm edge OH than crimp - but I bet on a 20-30mm edge the difference is much much smaller.. Crimping allowing you to direct more force to the back edge of the hold etc..
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I would pay good money to see someone rock up to Rubicon and get on Caviar, Zeke or or Kudos wall and do everything "stronger" openhanded.
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I'd also wager there would be plenty of full thumb over the top crimping going on rather than any of that half crimp nonsense.
Any perceived strength differences are going to be measured on a finger board anyway as the real world mostly forces you into doing something a certain way. Also I think the problem with 3 open to 4 half comparison is how do you define failure ? 3 open is fairly easy - you fall of after emitting 3-8 seconds of kung foo sounds but on a half crimp you start to loose form so probably let go before total failure.
Alls i'm saying is i'm def stronger open handed on a fingerboard.