UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => bouldering => Topic started by: Fiend on March 08, 2021, 07:56:35 pm
-
Is there an official UKB grumpy old sod term for this sort of nonsense yet?? Open to ideas if they're as snappy as "Big Number For Bad Beta"....
I'm sure you know what I mean. It's really kicked off in the last year with everyone and their plastic sensibilities unleashed upon the poor unsuspecting crags and all that entails from bluetooth speakers and chalked footholds visible on Google Earth to some of the most shambolically farcical grading since Will Hunt hit the Peak District that one time....
So you get the sort of Depot-dwelling scrote who actually unironically subscribes to Magnus Mitboe, kicked out of his favourite covid-incubating "indoor gym", trawls around some god forsaken choss heap that Puttrell once went for a post-steak-pie shit in on a trans-Pennine wander, gets unduly excited because now he can be his own route setter, manages to unearth a non-move wonder eliminate sit start to a 4+ that would make even r-man blush and question his morality, and then whops on 7A+ because it's a bit harder than the black circuit etc etc. Put it on UKC with at least 3 stars and a verbose name and and bask in glory that makes doing a comp wall problem seem mundane etc etc....
Even more morally reprehensible than driving 5 minutes to that choss heap in the first place.
Stay Home. Protect The Grading System. Save Blocs.
-
More of this. It warms me cockles so it does, Fiend.
-
Fiend, PLEASE write a guidebook, even if it’s just a critique of which commercial walls allow a tops off gabber vibe at their dingiest bit of woody.
-
and they attempt to convert everything into V grades
this leads to grade feedback inflation
"feels like V2"
"that's up to Font 6a+"
"that's V3"
"that goes up to 6b"
"felt hard, so give it a +"
"that makes it V4"
-
Fiend, PLEASE write a guidebook, even if it’s just a critique of which commercial walls allow a tops off gabber vibe at their dingiest bit of woody.
Boulderwall Shitain. I'm sure Grimer would collaborate.
-
and they attempt to convert everything into V grades
this leads to grade feedback inflation
"feels like V2"
"that's up to Font 6a+"
"that's V3"
"that goes up to 6b"
"felt hard, so give it a +"
"that makes it V4"
That’s like a grading equivalent of a conversation between two google translate pages...
-
Please provide examples in the form of UKC logbook links and/or Instagram links.
-
Anything at St Ives Amphitheatre for a start.
:lol: sorrynotsorryneverbeenlesssorrryinmylife
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/cown_edge_rocks-9802/eh_up_el_diabolo-578432 there was this gem which you're aware of. There's probably more scattered around. I'm hoping for some further investigation and naming and shaming by UKB roving witchhunters....
-
There's this one I came across recently. Done many times before by the locals and basically an easier version of a pre-existing eliminate :lol:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/woodhouse_scar-1241/shot_in_self_defence-613925
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJbt_qFDo39/?igshid=11093vdgaycja
It's this kind of shit that gives Woodhouse Scar a bad name!
-
I had the opposite experience of indoor kids being far too good whilst battling with red baron roof at Shipley. A lad who must have been around 18 asked if he could see my beta and jump on it. He'd done the stand for the first time earlier that day and had then spent all day climbing around the glen, the tips of both index fingers already taped up. I had to remind him to clean his shoes before jumping on it as he was wandering off the mats into the mud. He then nearly did it from the start in about 3 goes, cutting loose everywhere but getting away with it anyway, until he was finally off near the top. Sickening. He then left to catch a lift with his mate, seemingly unfazed he'd nearly done RBR in about 5 minutes.
-
I failed in trying to call out a couple of ‘ascents’ of hard(er) Lancs problems not using the (clearly) described holds/starting positions and then gave up :D
When the walls re-open normal service will resume.
-
Did I tell you about my new crappy squeezed in traverse on the sandstone? Near to someone else’s new roof problem, both took about same effort, one a tentative 6A, the other 6C. The other guy is probably too good to discern the difference though? Grades eh, who’d have them? 🤷♂️
-
I failed in trying to call out a couple of ‘ascents’ of hard(er) Lancs problems not using the (clearly) described holds/starting positions and then gave up :D
When the walls re-open normal service will resume.
You'd think they'd be better are proscribed starts given the blindingly obvious starting tags / rules indoors (although I have seen some awful scum pretending to ignore those indoors too).
LiamHutch - that sort of rot must be stopped too. Get them on some friction slabs or flared offwidth pods or something.
-
:off: As much as I hate to inject some seriousness into this jolly piss-take, the guy who logged that thing that Fiend is complaining about has been climbing since 2004, albeit with a possible hiatus or just not using the UKC logbooks, resuming in 2015. So they're hardly a complete noob. It's probably just that grading FAs is more often than not complete guesswork. :off:
Please resume.
-
This is no place for tolerance or reason! I want to see outrage and vitriol that makes the Derbyshire Times comments section look like a relaxed socially distant 2 person picnic!
-
If you regularly look at the Latest Photos pages on UKC :guilty: there’s always a steady trickle of topos and FA shots of seriously crap looking new problems. Many are less than 2 metres tall, many on terrible looking rock, some aren’t even on rock at all* and the vast majority look like they’ll never be climbed again. Obviously it’s become a much larger trickle since lockdown.
I love seeing it to be honest. That’s kind of what climbing’s all about** isn’t it? Lots of us have had at least one point in our lives when we’ve done suspect new eliminates/ become briefly obsessed with a truly shit local craglet/ thought we’ve done something new that either isn’t new or is considered totally gauche to claim and I’m sure we all have fond memories of those times. I kind of feel sorry for anyone who hasn’t.
I never think about whether the grades of this new stuff are accurate or not. I guess I just assume that they’re very unlikely to be and that it doesn’t matter because it will be ironed out if it becomes popular and if it doesn’t then no one apart from the FAs mates will ever climb it. Unless people are chipping the problem only really comes when mad stuff is claimed at popular venues but due to absentee UKC logbook moderators (another :worms: in itself- one bloke moderates about 900 crags, how can that possibly work?!) just sits there without being removed or regraded.
*the UKC logbook pages for non- rock venues are fascinating reading and at one point I was thinking of making a film about the people develop them. I guess the ship has kind of sailed on that since all this bridge crack business
**maybe this is just my opinion
-
Wow, I thought you were joking and then went and looked. What a goldmine! This was my favourite. Hybrid buildering and bouldering.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=362037
-
Classic gem
https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=362132
-
Wow, I thought you were joking and then went and looked. What a goldmine! This was my favourite. Hybrid buildering and bouldering.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=362037
The lower line
haha
-
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/york_urban-10375/thomas_the_lank_engine-618109#overview
Someone brought this to my attention the other day. Having lived 2 minutes walk from the Little Knavesmire “crag”, I’m obviously gutted that I missed out on the opportunity to develop it. If I hadn’t moved I could have had all that potential on my doorstep instead of having to drive 10 minutes to Burbage.
-
:off: Sorry, seriousness again. Developing new boulders is a funny old thing. If you're a wad you might be able to climb a well-known project and it'll probably be quite good. Or you might be able to climb lots of new stuff which is quite rubbish but, because of the virtue of its difficulty, you won't be mocked for it. For mortals, you tend to have to pan through a lot of dross to find the gold. The more gold you find, the more perspective you get about the quality of the dross. So a less-experienced developer might be really excited about the one-move lowball eliminate Font 2 that they've done - it's their baby - but we have to tolerate a certain amount of over-exuberance or you'll put them off and they'll never get to find their gold. Like in the Detectorists: you've got to dig up a lot of bottle caps to find your Saxon horde. That's not to say that over-graded or over-starred stuff shouldn't be corrected, but it can be done gently. :offtopic:
As you were.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=362219
-
As you were.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=362219
I'm pretty confident I've lugged my pads down that trying to find the cave at Ippikins...
-
Bless them for claiming it tough, that's pretty special.
-
I am bitterly disappointed that this thread is not what I thought it would be and nobody is addressing the Elephant at the crag.
There is not a single example of photographic evidence of the fucking Rock Fairies filing down crimps, cranking up gravity and polishing slopers.
I’m bloody certain it’s been happening whilst I’ve been stuck in lockdown. Even my favourite warm ups have leapt up two letter grades...
Regards,
Mr T. Antrum,
Torquay.
-
Is this the place for complaining about people claiming pointless eliminate FA's then?
I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871
Regardless of how worthwhile adding that problem is, I'm genuinely surprised they're claiming it as an FA. I'm sure I'm not that only person who pisses around on the easier boulders at Caley, climbing them in as many ways as possible.
-
I'm sure I'm not that only person who pisses around on the easier boulders at Caley, climbing them in as many ways as possible.
Fixed. Agree, it's toss, and belongs here. Part of Will's earlier comment.
Just because you've done an eliminate and it felt satisfying to do, doesn't mean it is worth writing up or even that good. Maybe just about justifiable in a rock starved corner of the country, but not in an established historical area with tons to go at.
-
Yeah, madness. Is any eliminate a first ascent anyway? :worms: ;)
-
I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871
Unchecked by the UKC crag moderator in the two years since it was done. Whoever this “Footwork” guy is needs to pull his finger out. :lol:
-
I love eliminates, growing up with westvale and woodhouse, and now with the calf nearby, the Cameron Duff guides hand drawn eliminaye face topos have provided un-ending psyche. Where to draw the line?
-
They're using Psychi pads. That tells you everything.
-
I love eliminates, growing up with westvale and woodhouse, and now with the calf nearby, the Cameron Duff guides hand drawn eliminaye face topos have provided un-ending psyche. Where to draw the line?
I draw the line at Crucifix Traverse Loop and Tour de Crucifix.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/almscliff-373/crucifix_traverse_loop-470987
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/almscliff-373/tour_de_crucifix-554402
-
I love eliminates, growing up with westvale and woodhouse, and now with the calf nearby, the Cameron Duff guides hand drawn eliminaye face topos have provided un-ending psyche. Where to draw the line?
In a guidebook? problem follows the line, any additional description shouldn't be needed beyond where it starts and ends. I love them too, make up as many eliminates as you like, they are great fun, just don't bother grading each one individually, and don't be naïve enough to assume you are the first to do it and claim it.
-
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/almscliff-373/tour_de_crucifix-554402
Go till you drop
So at what point do you get the tick?
-
Fucking training links are the next level bullshit. Good call. Anyone who records them should be trawled face first through all the Almscliff cowpats.
-
Ahem.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/yeadon_crag-16854/bounce_by_the_ounce-441296
God only know what he has in mind for the back of the Calf :o
-
That was a 3* line!
Also pots, kettles etc.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/yeadon_crag-16854/power_royale-440607 (https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/yeadon_crag-16854/power_royale-440607)
Perhaps my deviant up bringing by the ACD guide has mpre serious consequences than first thought...
-
I once recorded a low level low quality low grade traverse at Conies Dale as a pisstake on PeakBouldering. Only to find that someone else had previously recorded the same low level low quality low grade traverse as a pisstake on PeakBouldering :D
-
That was a 3* line!
Also pots, kettles etc.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/yeadon_crag-16854/power_royale-440607 (https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/yeadon_crag-16854/power_royale-440607)
Ah but that is the most obvious line on the roof allowing a proper sit at the back, gaining the lip via the obvious rail, which leads into the most obvious finish. Three stars, ultra classic gem. etc etc
-
I've also noticed that these two sequences now exist on UKC as Crimpy Roof Right Hand and Crimpy Roof, respectively
https://vimeo.com/59863344
I originally did Crimpy Roof bumping up high LH intermediates so I was thinking of claiming that as Crimp Roof Left Hand, thoughts and opinions?
-
So a thread about claiming and over-grading shit eliminates has turned into a great Yorkshire scrittle love-in huh.....
....can't say I'm at all surprised TBH.
-
My logbook wish list is about as long as the bible, without a single eliminate to my knowledge. I've no idea how people find the time or energy to do them!
-
My logbook wish list is about as long as the bible, without a single eliminate to my knowledge. I've no idea how people find the time or energy to do them!
Well if following the guidelines to only travel "within the same part of your town or city", for some folk that means limited choice of venue - hence the eliminate explosion....
-
My logbook wish list is about as long as the bible, without a single eliminate to my knowledge. I've no idea how people find the time or energy to do them!
Well if following the guidelines to only travel "within the same part of your town or city", for some folk that means limited choice of venue - hence the eliminate explosion....
Oops, I just outed myself
-
Yeah, almscliff and westvale eliminates were because at various time in my life these were the only rock that was available, typically due to lack transport or crappy weather.
-
Nothing wrong with em - good fun really. Been done for years... Just maybe a bit OTT recording them as NEW PROBLEMS!!!
(unless they really are mega...)
-
One of my favourite ever sessions was a big (and at the time fairly strong) team of us trying to do eliminates on the eliminates on the Egg, using the garbage edges next to the real edges or pockets instead on the holds themselves. Very entertaining exercise in tunnel vision.
-
Almscliff eliminates on an early summer evening after work, followed by a pint and bar snacks in the Hunters 😍
-
If only it were as simple as eliminates are bad and not worth recording and non eliminates are the true lines and should be the default. What even classes as an eliminate? I challenge anyone to come up with a simple definition which doesn’t end up capturing loads of established classics. Is WSS just a bad sequence on Ronside Force-it? T-crack is shit without the rules. Trackside is just a bad sequence on Sidetrack. Gorilla Warfare eliminates a huge footblock at the end. The list is long.
Many many problems have rules, some are just so obvious that you forget they exist (e.g. the footblock on Gorilla Warfare). The problem is, when you do a new problem you have the choice of either stating the obvious rules vis-à-vis start positions and excluded footblocks etc, or have 2nd ascent hungry punters milking the absence of rules and climbing some shitty bastardised version of the problem which often climbs badly, has no bounding logic, and is wrong at the given grade. I swear if GW was put up as a new problem today some idiot would post up a vid of themselves doing it with a 10 minute rest on the block midway. Much better to be less damning of eliminates and accept that many bits of rock require rules of one sort or another in order for them to have fun, meaningful (everything’s relative obvs) climbs up them.
Clearly there is a line beyond which rules become counter productive and clearly this is crossed a lot, but I think bouldering is also blighted by people trying to pretend things are purer than they are and then getting upset when someone breaks one the problems multiple unstated rules. Rules are a boulderer’s friend, they increase the number of viable/fun climbs available and they mean everyone is roughly talking about the same challenge when they refer to a problem. Too many, not enough, unstated, or ill conceived rules are the true enemy.
PS – Liamhutch89 – I had a look at your UKC wishlist. It includes plenty of probs with rules about start positions and some with excluded hold rules.
-
I think this is the appropriate time to say that if you're reading this and you've uploaded a video, or otherwise "ticked" the problem, of yourself doing Losing My Edge using the method where you go straight out to match the arete and then womble up it at about 6A, then I think you are absolute sub-human scum.
The same goes for anybody who has started, or intends to start, Titfield Thunderbolt using anything but the lowest two crimps on the curving rail thing. I've seen people trying this problem off three stacked pads so they can pull on from finger-jugs. It's embarrassing to see.
-
The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" :???: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :'(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvoPz1Zu9jQ
If you're going to do that, just start matched on the arete and call it Losing My Edge Left-Hand and stop kidding yourself and the credulous punters who might watch your videos.
(It's all Dan's fault really for not taking the most obvious line and recording the harder version as an alternative with specific rules :))
-
The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" :???: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :'(
That's classic. Are we also in a post-truth world with grades? If you just write 7C in the video enough times then it has to be 7C.
-
Is she stood on the ground in the second one after the first move.
-
The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" :???: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :'(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvoPz1Zu9jQ
If you're going to do that, just start matched on the arete and call it Losing My Edge Left-Hand and stop kidding yourself and the credulous punters who might watch your videos.
(It's all Dan's fault really for not taking the most obvious line and recording the harder version as an alternative with specific rules :))
Priceless. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't state the rules, someone comes and climbs a blendy illogical bastard version (and takes the grade). There is no bounded and logical line up the RHS of that arete without a rule. It looks like the original is a good eliminate, the no rules version looks highly unsatisfactory.
-
Only just spotted the second climb on the vid :jaw: . This is a spoof video though right!?
-
Is she stood on the ground in the second one after the first move.
Pretty much. I'm pretty certain the RH jug she has at that point was completely hidden by moss when the problem was first conceived. So you'd end up leaning off the plinth(/floor) rather than rocking onto it. Since the discovery of the jug it's become a very popular problem for aspiring 7A+ climbers.
-
PS – Liamhutch89 – I had a look at your UKC wishlist. It includes plenty of probs with rules about start positions and some with excluded hold rules.
Ok, so 'without a single eliminate' was just conjecture and has been proven false. :sorry:
My point was that there's a whole world out there to explore and, personally, as (a) I only get outside once a fortnight or so, (b) I have the luxury of a car, (c) I almost always climb alone so can go where I want, and (d) it's at least 30 minutes drive to climb anywhere anyway, it's clear why gritty shaker makes more sense than demon wall roof only using back 3 with 1 shoe on.
I've indulged in extensions that suit me in the past, i'll even admit that they were fun! (e.g. everything on the Drey block). I also enjoyed feeling like i'd achieved lots of big ticks (for me) in quick succession. But generally, my rate of progress/success is glacial, so by the time i'd finished with the keel, for example, I never wanted to look at the boulder again no matter how good the climbing on keelhaul looks!
However, if I lived in Otley and had no kids i'd probably join the party under DWR!
I just had a quick review of the first page of my UKC wish list, which admittedly I hadn't used in a while until this week to save the recommended problems from this weeks power club. Only 2 out of the 25 problems are at crags which i've already visited. I guess that's the point I wanted to make. YMMV depending on location, circumstances, etc.
-
The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" :???: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :'(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvoPz1Zu9jQ
If you're going to do that, just start matched on the arete and call it Losing My Edge Left-Hand and stop kidding yourself and the credulous punters who might watch your videos.
(It's all Dan's fault really for not taking the most obvious line and recording the harder version as an alternative with specific rules :))
Unreal.
Complete with thoughtful consideration of the problem and beta, including him saying the original method "just feels way too physical for me"...yeah, because that way isn't 7C!!
But yes it is all Dan's fault, I lost a huge amount of skin doing it his big grades for bad beta way :lol:
-
demon wall roof only using back 3 with 1 shoe on.
Ooh challenge accepted ;D
-
... than demon wall roof only using back 3 with 1 shoe on.
Good vision, I'm going to give this one a bash next time I'm there ;D
-
:clap2:
-
The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" :???: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :'(
That's classic. Are we also in a post-truth world with grades? If you just write 7C in the video enough times then it has to be 7C.
EEEEEERRRRRRRRMMAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEEERRRDDDD! Have you fucking people only just realised this is happening? You're so deeply rammed into Fiend's arse that you believe the whole shtick about "Will Hunt proposes downgrades for everything". Wrong. Will Hunt proposes downgrades where they're needed because the sequence has changed since the FA, or it's patently piss.
Have a look for people still claiming 7C+ for Heaven In Your Hands (probably 7C with the face-crimp and now even easier with the undercut bump beta - it's not harder than Layby Arete).
Have a look at how everyone is doing Whaleback now (another problem ruined, but tbf a hold did break which rendered it very much more difficult).
Plenty of people still putting 7A on videos of Karjala and Longbow. It makes me sick.
The Tripel Effect is the biggest load of shit and should be struck from the record.
-
I've met the lad doing losing my edge at the depot a few times and he's a nice guy so i'll stick up for him - at about 6'6 i'm not surprised he finds certain sequences hard, despite being pretty strong!
-
I've met the lad doing losing my edge at the depot a few times and he's a nice guy so i'll stick up for him - at about 6'6 i'm not surprised he finds certain sequences hard, despite being pretty strong!
He is a nice lad but tiny violin alert for a tall man on gritstone! No sympathy here :boohoo:
-
... than demon wall roof only using back 3 with 1 shoe on.
Good vision, I'm going to give this one a bash next time I'm there ;D
Race you to the FA!!!
-
demon wall roof only using back 3 with 1 shoe on.
Ooh challenge accepted ;D
... than demon wall roof only using back 3 with 1 shoe on.
Good vision, I'm going to give this one a bash next time I'm there ;D
Let’s get an evening sesh booked in when we are allowed and the pub is open.
Liam, most of my cliff eliminate climbing these days is for warming up or circuiting, but I’ve previously been inspired by the historical eliminates there, when I did live in Otley and had no children!
-
I've met the lad doing losing my edge at the depot a few times and he's a nice guy so i'll stick up for him - at about 6'6 i'm not surprised he finds certain sequences hard, despite being pretty strong!
He is a nice lad but tiny violin alert for a tall man on gritstone! No sympathy here :boohoo:
Haha yes indeed, especially considering the original sequence suits the taller climber!
He is a nice chap though. So that's something? ;)
-
I've met the lad doing losing my edge at the depot a few times and he's a nice guy so i'll stick up for him - at about 6'6 i'm not surprised he finds certain sequences hard, despite being pretty strong!
He is a nice lad but tiny violin alert for a tall man on gritstone! No sympathy here :boohoo:
It must be nice being at an advantage for every move that doesn't exceed your reach :tease:
-
PS – Liamhutch89 – I had a look at your UKC wishlist. It includes plenty of probs with rules about start positions and some with excluded hold rules.
Ok, so 'without a single eliminate' was just conjecture and has been proven false. :sorry:
My point was that there's a whole world out there to explore and, personally, as (a) I only get outside once a fortnight or so, (b) I have the luxury of a car, (c) I almost always climb alone so can go where I want, and (d) it's at least 30 minutes drive to climb anywhere anyway, it's clear why gritty shaker makes more sense than demon wall roof only using back 3 with 1 shoe on.
I've indulged in extensions that suit me in the past, i'll even admit that they were fun! (e.g. everything on the Drey block). I also enjoyed feeling like i'd achieved lots of big ticks (for me) in quick succession. But generally, my rate of progress/success is glacial, so by the time i'd finished with the keel, for example, I never wanted to look at the boulder again no matter how good the climbing on keelhaul looks!
However, if I lived in Otley and had no kids i'd probably join the party under DWR!
I just had a quick review of the first page of my UKC wish list, which admittedly I hadn't used in a while until this week to save the recommended problems from this weeks power club. Only 2 out of the 25 problems are at crags which i've already visited. I guess that's the point I wanted to make. YMMV depending on location, circumstances, etc.
Sorry, wasn't having a pop at you. That all makes sense. I was just using you statement to illustrate that eliminate is a vague term that can cover lots of stuff generally considered uneliminate and classic.
-
The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" :???: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :'(
That's classic. Are we also in a post-truth world with grades? If you just write 7C in the video enough times then it has to be 7C.
EEEEEERRRRRRRRMMAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEEERRRDDDD! Have you fucking people only just realised this is happening? You're so deeply rammed into Fiend's arse that you believe the whole shtick about "Will Hunt proposes downgrades for everything". Wrong. Will Hunt proposes downgrades where they're needed because the sequence has changed since the FA, or it's patently piss.
Have a look for people still claiming 7C+ for Heaven In Your Hands (probably 7C with the face-crimp and now even easier with the undercut bump beta - it's not harder than Layby Arete).
Have a look at how everyone is doing Whaleback now (another problem ruined, but tbf a hold did break which rendered it very much more difficult).
Plenty of people still putting 7A on videos of Karjala and Longbow. It makes me sick.
The Tripel Effect is the biggest load of shit and should be struck from the record.
The most concerning thing about this thread is that I feel I'm finally coming round to your way of thinking. Especially given that I'm now 14 sessions deep into Ben's Groove Sit, yet did HIYH in a session 4 years ago, which I suppose means they're not the same grade :(
The problem with that is it would mean Red Baron Roof has to come down to 7C....what to do :-\ ;D
-
The Tripel Effect is the biggest load of shit and should be struck from the record.
Ooooh I see. I though this was an outrageous bending of the rules (on the world's easiest 7c) Ripple Effect!
-
I'm sure all the usual suspects (we know who they are) are lovely people. It doesn't mean that they're not letting their egos fuck up certain problems. Not wanting to single out the Losing My Edge bloke (who I'm sure is very nice), but just to use this as an example (and it applies to many climbers nowadays unfortunately), anybody who climbs it like that and claims it's 7C is either:
a) completely deluded about what 7C feels like;
b) completely deluded as to their own ability (surely a delusion that would be easily shattered by trying literally any benchmark 7C);
c) conscious of the fact that the problem is not 7C but choosing to "take the grade" anyway - in the self-policed sport of climbing this is, to my mind, cheating.
Btw Bradders, someone I know saw your Instagram story of Ben's Sit and said you had shit beta.
-
The most concerning thing about this thread is that I feel I'm finally coming round to your way of thinking. Especially given that I'm now 14 sessions deep into Ben's Groove Sit, yet did HIYH in a session 4 years ago, which I suppose means they're not the same grade :(
The problem with that is it would mean Red Baron Roof has to come down to 7C....what to do :-\ ;D
I thoroughly enjoy coming across the downgrades on here and UKC logbooks from Will and others, mainly at the thought of how many people are raging. I even got trolled myself when I went to do the Grouch armed with the knowledge that it was actually 6C. I was definitely going to flash it, 6C and in my style, but there I was about 8 tries later using knees, elbows and everything to turn the lip... It's 7A, the same grade as ringpiece.
-
Btw Bradders, someone I know saw your Instagram story of Ben's Sit and said you had shit beta.
Tell me more....
-
Not wanting to single out the Losing My Edge bloke (who I'm sure is very nice), but just to use this as an example (and it applies to many climbers nowadays unfortunately), anybody who climbs it like that and claims it's 7C is either:
a) completely deluded about what 7C feels like;
b) completely deluded as to their own ability (surely a delusion that would be easily shattered by trying literally any benchmark 7C);
c) conscious of the fact that the problem is not 7C but choosing to "take the grade" anyway - in the self-policed sport of climbing this is, to my mind, cheating.
Lets not forget that grading is very far from an exact science so I dont think it's surprising that people can end up just taking the grade. To use a recent example, Breakfast at burbage took me 3 sessions and Ben's Roof at Raven tor took me 3 sessions. Both well established problems, 4 grades apart, felt similarly difficult to me. Maybe I should just stop cheating myself and downgrade Ben's to 7A.
-
To use a recent example, Breakfast at burbage took me 3 sessions and Ben's Roof at Raven tor took me 3 sessions.
:blink: <---- is the perfect smiley for this.
-
[ Since the discovery of the jug it's become a very popular problem for aspiring 7A+ climbers.
I'm not surprised..
-
That video is fucking great. A two pitch 7A+! :lol:
-
I think you are a bit harsh. He and his gf are full of earnest enthusiasm and have just climbed 2 problems graded 7C and 7A+, just probably not at those grades. So what? Not a donkey mark or dab in sight :)
-
Btw Bradders, someone I know saw your Instagram story of Ben's Sit and said you had shit beta.
Tell me more....
Double knee pads is what I heard Nick....
-
The fucking state of this. "Losing My Edge 7C" :???: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wall: :'(
That's classic. Are we also in a post-truth world with grades? If you just write 7C in the video enough times then it has to be 7C.
EEEEEERRRRRRRRMMAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEEERRRDDDD! Have you fucking people only just realised this is happening? You're so deeply rammed into Fiend's arse that you believe the whole shtick about "Will Hunt proposes downgrades for everything". Wrong. Will Hunt proposes downgrades where they're needed because the sequence has changed since the FA, or it's patently piss.
Have a look for people still claiming 7C+ for Heaven In Your Hands (probably 7C with the face-crimp and now even easier with the undercut bump beta - it's not harder than Layby Arete).
Have a look at how everyone is doing Whaleback now (another problem ruined, but tbf a hold did break which rendered it very much more difficult).
Plenty of people still putting 7A on videos of Karjala and Longbow. It makes me sick.
The Tripel Effect is the biggest load of shit and should be struck from the record.
Surely it worth mentioning that grades can be equally wrong the other way too which can mess up your grade calibration. There would definitely be a few candidates for upgrades, one off the top of my head would be Gritty Shaker that' now been upped to 7c which certainly felt like the correct grade, if you based everything else around that being 7b plenty of stuff would need changing.
Or Hell's Boss at 7a+, I'm 4 sessions deep on that now....
-
The problem with Gritty Shaker is that Nez has now found some new beta. I've given it a go but need connies and skin to play ball - maybe next season now. It may yet be 7B! Despite it being a bit too warm and being riddled with tape I managed to progress to touching the left hand guppy hold.
-
I think you are a bit harsh. He and his gf are full of earnest enthusiasm and have just climbed 2 problems graded 7C and 7A+, just probably not at those grades. So what? Not a donkey mark or dab in sight :)
That's true, there are certain prolific boulderers here in CO that like to tick every single hold, often with those god-awful double ticks :spank:
-
Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?
-
Massive pedantic grade debate...moral outrage... have I stumbled onto ukc?
-
Massive pedantic grade debate...moral outrage... have I stumbled onto ukc?
Quite.
💩
-
Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?
I was wondering this too.
https://www.instagram.com/p/_hX2KakQSN/?hl=en
-
Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?
I was wondering this too.
https://www.instagram.com/p/_hX2KakQSN/?hl=en
I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?
-
I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?
Start LH on arete, RH in undercut according to the description.
My guess is it originally slapped up the arete with left then there's probably a hard (er for short) cut loose and match
But I guess Will knows as his rant kicked this off
-
I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871
Unchecked by the UKC crag moderator in the two years since it was done. Whoever this “Footwork” guy is needs to pull his finger out. :lol:
Thank you for your feedback (which is invaluable to us). Please note that during these difficult times we are taking a little longer to get back to everyone. You can expect a reply in the next 2 - 3 years.
We appreciate your understanding and thank you for your patience.
Caley Crag moderating team
-
I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871
Unchecked by the UKC crag moderator in the two years since it was done. Whoever this “Footwork” guy is needs to pull his finger out. :lol:
Thank you for your feedback (which is invaluable to us). Please note that during these difficult times we are taking a little longer to get back to everyone. You can expect a reply in the next 2 - 3 years.
We appreciate your understanding and thank you for your patience.
Caley Crag moderating team
You forgot to add the “This is an automated reply” tag...
-
Have to say I think you've dropped the ball here Will. I completely agree that it's stupid taking the grade if you climbed a far easier method but have a little whine about it on UKB doesn't serve anyone.
A polite comment on the video explaining how the problems are supposed to be done and a kind pointer about how they might be kidding themselves a little on the grade would be easily done and would also save multiple pages of frothing UKB vitriol.
I know how I'd feel if someone was talking about me like that on an online forum (it's happened) and it's not a nice feeling at all. Some well placed advice will set them up for future success and strengthen confidence in both their sense of grading and their feeling of community within climbing.
-
Pardon my ignorance, how's Losing my Edge meant to be climbed?
I was wondering this too.
https://www.instagram.com/p/_hX2KakQSN/?hl=en
I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?
I think that was the original idea, but hasn't been done yet to my knowledge and tbh might not really be workable.
Forgive banging my own drum but original beta at about 4:27 in this video:
https://vimeo.com/214218590
Hard slappy moves up with the left hand and then matching in with the pinch in your left isn't trivial. I thought this was about right for 7C, but then I also took 7C+ for To Me To You so.. :-\
-
I spotted this one yesterday, which is just a font 3 done with one less move.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/the_stotty-524871
Unchecked by the UKC crag moderator in the two years since it was done. Whoever this “Footwork” guy is needs to pull his finger out. :lol:
Thank you for your feedback (which is invaluable to us). Please note that during these difficult times we are taking a little longer to get back to everyone. You can expect a reply in the next 2 - 3 years.
We appreciate your understanding and thank you for your patience.
Caley Crag moderating team
Hi Caley Crag Moderating Team, please see my feedback below for your consideration:
Downgrade list
The Groove
New Jerusalem
Hanging Wall
Otzi
Pedestal Arete stand start
Cuddles
Boulder 22 problem 5 (Cruel Arete?)
Upgrade list
Forked Lightning Crack
Mr Smooth
The Drey
dare I say it - Crystal Method?
-
I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?
I think that was the original idea, but hasn't been done yet to my knowledge and tbh might not really be workable.
I've done the moves starting matched in the roof and with a double toe hook on the arete lie down start. It's dabby, not very hard, and pretty shit, especially if you do the easy sequence of matching the arete ASAP.
-
would also save multiple pages of frothing UKB vitriol.
I think you may have completely misunderstood the purpose of this thread, Mischa.
Yes, I know that the proper thing to do would be to write lots of nice polite comments on these videos, or to drop in a little comment about stacking pads/starting wrong/finishing wrong while at the crag. I have done this in the past and do do it still, but there's only so much you can do before you get a reputation for being a dickhead. There's only so big a reputation that I'm prepared to nurture. I once told somebody who'd "finished" Crucifix Low Traverse about two or three moves early (it was laughable) to get back around in quite a nice, jokey, craicful manner. They were pretty pissed off.
Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.
-
would also save multiple pages of frothing UKB vitriol.
I think you may have completely misunderstood the purpose of this thread, Mischa.
Yes, I know that the proper thing to do would be to write lots of nice polite comments on these videos, or to drop in a little comment about stacking pads/starting wrong/finishing wrong while at the crag. I have done this in the past and do do it still, but there's only so much you can do before you get a reputation for being a dickhead. There's only so big a reputation that I'm prepared to nurture. I once told somebody who'd "finished" Crucifix Low Traverse about two or three moves early (it was laughable) to get back around in quite a nice, jokey, craicful manner. They were pretty pissed off.
Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.
No worries Will, can appreciate people aren't always welcoming of constructive criticism. I'm probably a little oversensitive about these things really.
edit: I know that I when younger wasn't exposed to a lot of banter and the wink/nudge style of letting someone know that they'd got something wrong. I sometimes wonder if it's worth being a little less joking and a little more straight bat in these situations. 'Nice work. The problem doesn't finish there though, it has 3 more moves' is a lot easier to swallow (at least for me) than the 'too early youth, back around now' style of quip.
That's not a criticism but just a thought about how beating around the bush can sometimes be less effective than just being friendly but honest.
-
I assume you're meant to start both hands under the roof and do some hard moves to get to the arete?
I think that was the original idea, but hasn't been done yet to my knowledge and tbh might not really be workable.
I've done the moves starting matched in the roof and with a double toe hook on the arete lie down start. It's dabby, not very hard, and pretty shit, especially if you do the easy sequence of matching the arete ASAP.
Ah okay, good vision hadn't thought of that. Might be a worthwhile eliminate I suppose. Would you claim it as an FA though?! :shit:
-
We have a discussion forum where like-minded people (in some respects) come together and procrastinate on a daily basis, going into the minutiae of what are very silly and arbitrary rules in an ultimately pointless activity (and it's great!). I don't think anyone here really wants to hurt anyone's feelings, so perhaps we should have a specific downgrade/upgrade/approved sequence thread, where posting in it means you accept all the piss-taking that comes, and then we can straighten things out whilst keep it all in-house?
-
Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.
A friend who is not shit tried this and thought it required an albatross span and thought 7B+ for the non lanksters using Nick's beta.
No worries Will, can appreciate people aren't always welcoming of constructive criticism. I'm probably a little oversensitive about these things really.
edit: I know that I when younger wasn't exposed to a lot of banter and the wink/nudge style of letting someone know that they'd got something wrong. I sometimes wonder if it's worth being a little less joking and a little more straight bat in these situations. 'Nice work. The problem doesn't finish there though, it has 3 more moves' is a lot easier to swallow (at least for me) than the 'too early youth, back around now' style of quip.
That's not a criticism but just a thought about how beating around the bush can sometimes be less effective than just being friendly but honest.
I don't think theres anything on here we wouldn't put in the bring our your dabs thread or similar piss taking. I think if you make a big deal of the grade in your video and it turns out its completely wrong its fair game to have a laugh about that. Its an interesting point though, I think a lot of people opt for the jokey quip out of fear of being seen a grumpy sod. People will 'prefer' being called out different ways, so impossible to get it right every time.
He'll have the last laugh anyway when he monetises his youtube channel.
-
Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.
A friend who is not shit tried this and thought it required an albatross span and thought 7B+ for the non lanksters using Nick's beta.
I presume you're talking about Rob (I've seen his logbook comment). I honestly don't understand how anybody can really claim that this alternative beta requires some sort of freakishly unusual body shape. It's merely a case of taking the hold that everybody else (including Dan Turner - who probably self-identifies as being in the "short" category) takes and then readjusting on it to hold it literally a couple of inches higher. The flake that forms the pinch on the arete narrows towards its top so taking it even a little higher than the very bottom dramatically improves it. We're not talking about wrapping your hand around the flake at its top, it's just holding the pinch a little higher. I'm 5 foot and 10 inches, with an unremarkable positive ape index.
Ben will be along in a minute to complain that you need to be a freak (Ben defines a freak as anybody with a slightly different body to him) to do this. He's wrong. Ben gave it one measly attempt, didn't stick the move first time, and then instantly gave up. This is what he does. Any time that somebody improves beta on a problem that he wants to do at a specific grade (see: Pinch 32) he gives it a really half-hearted go, declares it impossible for him, and then gets back to Big Grades For Bad Beta. Ben is taller than me and has a slightly shorter arm span (though he will be along momentarily to declare that the gulf between our arm spans should be measured in football fields or double-decker buses).
-
Difficult to tell but I don't think Bradders employed the beta that I used on Losing My Edge. I don't recall finding the slaps up the arete being overly difficult, but holding the pinch flake at its bottom and matching over it with the right hand is definitely the crux on the original beta. I was able to bump my left hand again to take the pinch higher which turns it into a bit of a jug, thus getting rid of the crux. I put a comment in my logbook describing this improved beta and that it felt about 7A or 7A+.
I remember it making a difference where you started in the crack with your right hand too. If you stack a pad and take it higher up to start you avoid a droppable move bumping it up from low. Can see Dan doing it more clearly here (11:51):
https://youtu.be/10SVOqOocJ4
-
I honestly don't understand how anybody can really claim that this alternative beta requires some sort of freakishly unusual body shape. It's merely a case of taking the hold that everybody else (including Dan Turner - who probably self-identifies as being in the "short" category) takes and then readjusting on it to hold it literally a couple of inches higher. The flake that forms the pinch on the arete narrows towards its top so taking it even a little higher than the very bottom dramatically improves it. We're not talking about wrapping your hand around the flake at its top, it's just holding the pinch a little higher. I'm 5 foot and 10 inches, with an unremarkable positive ape index.
I suppose its plausible that Dan didn't do it that way because he is so strong it doesn't matter. I don't actually know either way as I haven't done it, but suffice to say I am sceptical that moving your hand 2 inches higher changes the grade by 3 full grades. The more likely explanation, though it pains me to admit it, is that you're probably a better climber than you think you are. What a thing to have to type! I'll report back when I eventually go and do it.
-
I've never seen Losing Me Edge, but having looked at those two videos, the harder original version looks totally contrived. More like a defined method than an eliminate.
-
Christ, just seen this, is there three pages talking about Losing my edge? Good song mind.
Probably safe to say, just bad beta. I was hoping it would start matched on the undercut, but I soon realised that probably wasn't possible.
Glad people enjoy it.
-
I honestly don't understand how anybody can really claim that this alternative beta requires some sort of freakishly unusual body shape. It's merely a case of taking the hold that everybody else (including Dan Turner - who probably self-identifies as being in the "short" category) takes and then readjusting on it to hold it literally a couple of inches higher. The flake that forms the pinch on the arete narrows towards its top so taking it even a little higher than the very bottom dramatically improves it. We're not talking about wrapping your hand around the flake at its top, it's just holding the pinch a little higher. I'm 5 foot and 10 inches, with an unremarkable positive ape index.
I suppose its plausible that Dan didn't do it that way because he is so strong it doesn't matter. I don't actually know either way as I haven't done it, but suffice to say I am sceptical that moving your hand 2 inches higher changes the grade by 3 full grades. The more likely explanation, though it pains me to admit it, is that you're probably a better climber than you think you are. What a thing to have to type! I'll report back when I eventually go and do it.
IDK, Jim, maybe actually go and feel the holds before drawing your own conclusions.
FWIW, Paul has updated the guide on Unknown Stones and listed all the frigs and variations with reduced grades, so anybody using this guide should no longer have any excuses.
https://unknownstones.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/13-crow-crag-feb-2021.pdf
-
FWIW, Paul has updated the guide on Unknown Stones and listed all the frigs and variations with reduced grades, so anybody using this guide should no longer have any excuses.
https://unknownstones.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/13-crow-crag-feb-2021.pdf
Trying to bring it back to the original thread topic (it just happens that LME is a good proxy), the guide lists the LH variant with an FA unknown; but why would the first ascentionist of an easier version of a problem be worthy of mention?
I get it if someone does a harder version, even if it's desperately eliminate. But easier?
-
So a thread about claiming and over-grading shit eliminates has turned into a great Yorkshire scrittle love-in huh.....
You thought it was bad back on 2..
-
I don't think anyone here really wants to hurt anyone's feelings, so perhaps we should have a specific downgrade/upgrade/approved sequence thread, where posting in it means you accept all the piss-taking that comes, and then we can straighten things out whilst keep it all in-house?
We used to have something like that, it was called UKB :P
-
FWIW, Paul has updated the guide on Unknown Stones and listed all the frigs and variations with reduced grades, so anybody using this guide should no longer have any excuses.
https://unknownstones.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/13-crow-crag-feb-2021.pdf
Trying to bring it back to the original thread topic (it just happens that LME is a good proxy), the guide lists the LH variant with an FA unknown; but why would the first ascentionist of an easier version of a problem be worthy of mention?
I get it if someone does a harder version, even if it's desperately eliminate. But easier?
I wouldn't read too much into it. I doubt Paul gave it very much thought.
Personally I wouldn't even mention a version where you start as for LME and immediately match the arete jug. Just start matched there for goodness' sake.
Now that we've thoroughly covered this one at Crow Crag what's next on the list?
-
I'm 5 foot and 10 inches, with an unremarkable positive ape index.
Arm span 188cm.
180cm tall.
"Man on £80,000 salary refuses to believe he’s in the top 5% of earners"
Was this you?
-
Trying to come up with a joke that involves Will, 3 inches, and unremarkable :-\
-
I'm 5 foot and 10 inches, with an unremarkable positive ape index.
Arm span 188cm.
180cm tall.
"Man on £80,000 salary refuses to believe he’s in the top 5% of earners"
Was this you?
Would you care to declare publically the difference between your height and span, Nate Dogg? :coffee:
Trying to come up with a joke that involves Will, 3 inches, and unremarkable :-\
No need. I am a joke.
-
Now now, we're not 'apist' here on UKB, all body types are warmly accepted!
-
Now now, we're not 'apist' here on UKB, all body types are warmly accepted!
Absolutely - but Will consistently claims he's not tall :D
-
So a thread about claiming and over-grading shit eliminates has turned into a great Yorkshire scrittle love-in huh.....
You thought it was bad back on 2..
I absolutely despair. I've completely underestimated the downfall of British climbing and am going to scour UKC for Hobson Moor and New Mills Torrs July 2020 first ascents of 7B variants to E1 5cs to try to recover some sanity.
-
Now now, we're not 'apist' here on UKB, all body types are warmly accepted!
Absolutely - but Will consistently claims he's not tall :D
Unsurprisingly, if he thinks 180cm converts to 5'10
-
Unsurprisingly, if he thinks 180cm converts to 5'10
Grade creep converting repeatedly between the 2 systems.
-
Back on topic ;)
https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=362478
-
Odog is not some punter who massively overgrades eliminate bollocks. But you know that anyway Will.
-
Yeah, Owen's been seeking out extremely 'local', eliminate nonsense for decades. He loves it and has been getting shit for it for years. No doubt he would be proud to appear in this thread.
Is it wrong that I am actually interested in this problem now its been highlighted? Cheshire sandstone is riddled with obscure, contrived and potentially awful problems like this. Many of them are really fun with cool moves for the local who has done everything else, but I wouldn't put them in a guidebook. Well, maybe some of them...
-
I don't know where that is ... but it looks bloody fantastic!!!
-
I don't know where that is ... but it looks bloody fantastic!!!
Haha, yeah.
-
Back on topic ;)
https://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/dbpage.php?id=362478
Owen is sound, and he has never said they are any good. Nearly everything at the crag has been given 1 star and they are named 'local choss' etc.
-
::)
Yes, I know Owen is sound. Didn't he invent the 7 Foot Dyno? That makes him a God in my view.
It's a photo by a UKB regular of a fairly contrived looking sit start. I'm sure it's a gem. Just a bit of fun, you squares.
-
I was genuinely hoping this thread would involve the sharing of some god awful newly retroclaimed overgraded nonlines. And a subsequent slagfest. Local to me, some people have been logging some truly weird stuff. Like the grotto in Sefton Park.
I was at Otterspool wall, a sandstone block wall by the river, climbed on by locals for decades. Now new arrivals there always seem to spend ten minutes using the ukc cragpage to identify the nonlines before climbing. The joy of making stuff up and just climbing seems to be lost on many when not following the yellow bolt ons at the gym. Its just a man made wall liberally covered in nice crimps. It doesnt need a topo and grades.
#grumpyoldtwat
-
#grumpyoldtwat
#grumpytruthfuloldtwat
-
I absolutely despair. I've completely underestimated the downfall of British climbing and am going to scour UKC for Hobson Moor and New Mills Torrs July 2020 first ascents of 7B variants to E1 5cs to try to recover some sanity.
Off topic but:
The funny thing is that there are several hard unclimbed trad lines to go down the Torrs which I'm amazed nobody has touched. I did a lot of swinging around on a shunt there a few years ago when I was still living locally and got pretty psyched, but then left the area before I got strong enough to do them.
For example there is one pin scar style crack feature right through the highest bit of the main wall which will take a load of small wires and is fully independent. I did the moves on a shunt and thought E6/7 depending on gear quality. Climbing felt around 7b/+ish at the time but it was a while ago and I didn't link it.
Happy to send more details to anyone interested in having a look :great: The access from the top is piss with all the trees so it's very straightforward to go have a swing around and check it out.
-
So you get the sort of Depot-dwelling scrote who actually unironically subscribes to Magnus Mitboe, kicked out of his favourite covid-incubating "indoor gym", trawls around some god forsaken choss heap that Puttrell once went for a post-steak-pie shit in on a trans-Pennine wander, gets unduly excited because now he can be his own route setter, manages to unearth a non-move wonder eliminate sit start to a 4+ that would make even r-man blush and question his morality, and then whops on 7A+ because it's a bit harder than the black circuit etc etc. Put it on UKC with at least 3 stars and a verbose name and and bask in glory that makes doing a comp wall problem seem mundane etc etc....
I now have a dilemma, as yesterday I did a couple of probably new but could easily have been done before problems at Eldwick, both eliminate, both easier than the pre-existing problem up that section of rock (albeit with a different start position), on slightly questionable in places rock.
BUT...they both climb well, the easier one doesn't feel eliminate at all, they're both very logical and I had a lot of fun doing them, plus they open up that wall for non-giants. And the rock is actually quite nice really.
SO...do I add them to UKC with 3 stars, verbose names and inflated grades?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMsej0FD6nv/?igshid=1ny4ulse43zvq
-
Yes. All with ‘tribute’ to Fiend names. :D
-
Well, it depends. Is the first one just unspeakably bad beta for a HS 4c jamming crack, where the crux is somehow avoiding touching the back of your hand to the other side of the rock??
Either way, yes, obviously.
-
Well, it depends. Is the first one just unspeakably bad beta for a HS 4c jamming crack, where the crux is somehow avoiding touching the back of your hand to the other side of the rock??
Either way, yes, obviously.
Yes, definitely. Not that you'd even need to jam as the arete is so positive :lol:
-
yes to 3*, yes to verbose name (as per TT, I recommend Walking in Gabba Wonderland), no to overinflated grade.
-
That actually looks like a reasonable climb. I take it the only rule is that the left wall isn't in? I forget how thin the crack is - is it difficult not to dab on the other side of the crack?
For a fairly crap crag it looks like a reasonable thing to add in to give visitors something to do. Obviously it's an abhorrent eliminate but most things there suffer some sort of contrivance (dropping off with no top out, eliminate rules on Footlocker, etc). How did you like Racing Raymond? I take it you didn't do Airedale Triads?
-
Yes no sidewall and move right into the finish of Albatross, rather than continuing up the crack via some extreme gardening. It actually climbs really well, and the full eliminate is even better, excellent moves on nice holds.
The crack is actually quite wide so never felt like you'd dab.
Enjoyed Racing Raymond. It's either extremely frustrating or delightful depending on whether you do it though!
Didn't try Airedale Triads. Thought Footlocker was good fun. And The Elevator looks class!
Just a shame Albatross is so unbelievably morpho. I mean I have a big span, so had thought it would be possible, but it seems you need to be tall as well.
-
Another Caley submission for the "why the fuck would you log that?" list;
Breakfast with a completely separate boulder...might as well log a version using the ground!
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/no_weetabix_for_breakfest-624898
-
I moderate a lot of the crags around the roaches on ukc.
Any attempt to claim some eliminate is straight in the bin.
Even had someone trying to claim a sit-down start to 3 pocket slab. I will give one guess what happened to that.
There does seem an increase in over use of of chalk tick marks where it's not needed.
Maybe we should be highlighting on the posts more. Shame them.
-
There does seem to be an explosion of named trivial variant popping up on ukc in recent years. Just looking at Curbar - who knew there were 28 probs on the Trackside boulder, and 18 on the Gorilla Warfare face?
I don’t know if the solution to this is hoping for boulderers to grow out of logging ever more trivial variants, or moderator to develop a consistently strict edit/cull policy across the board. After all it’s not always obvious (sometimes it is!) if something is worthwhile or worthless from a description alone. Another alternative would be to relegate variants to a subfile within their ‘parent’ climbs accessible via dropdown. You could then view a crag with or without the clutter depending on whether you wanted to see the ‘bookworthy’ climbs, or whether you were looking to squeeze some extra mileage/challenge out of a local venue.
-
How about this? For each crag we nominate and select the year or specific date considered to be it's 'peak' and take this as the cutoff for recorded development (could be past, present or future depending on crag). Thus, forever locking in that sweetspot where the best lines have been claimed, the obvious quality eliminates have been done and the lure of proud desperate LGPs, or fucking arse scrapey indoor inflated eliminate variations (depending on which end of the scale you operate), remains!
Any genuinely worthwhile new problems on established crags will only be hard about by Chinese whispers and rumours, reinstating the crag mystery and tales that have been lost with the social media generation/must record everything zombies. How to stop people filming them though..? Maybe armed crag wardens? Or attack drones?
-
I'm taking a long hard think about the problem I've found hidden off the path at Curbar top now...
To be fair if its not shit bonjoy has likely done it and its written in a small black notebook somewhere :D
-
How about this? For each crag we nominate and select the year or specific date considered to be it's 'peak' and take this as the cutoff for recorded development (could be past, present or future depending on crag). Thus, forever locking in that sweetspot where the best lines have been claimed, the obvious quality eliminates have been done and the lure of proud desperate LGPs, or fucking arse scrapey indoor inflated eliminate variations (depending on which end of the scale you operate), remains!
Any genuinely worthwhile new problems on established crags will only be hard about by Chinese whispers and rumours, reinstating the crag mystery and tales that have been lost with the social media generation/must record everything zombies. How to stop people filming them though..? Maybe armed crag wardens? Or attack drones?
Pretending this isn't tongue in cheek for a moment, that's a truly awful idea for lots of reasons. A quick scan through recent records would show that among the dross some of the best problems on many crags are among the most recent, even at very mature crags.
-
Ah but therein lies the beauty and wonder of a place, like the unheard symphony, the unpicked gems. Entirely tongue in cheek, of course :P
-
How about this? For each crag we nominate and select the year or specific date considered to be it's 'peak' and take this as the cutoff for recorded development (could be past, present or future depending on crag). Thus, forever locking in that sweetspot where the best lines have been claimed, the obvious quality eliminates have been done and the lure of proud desperate LGPs, or fucking arse scrapey indoor inflated eliminate variations (depending on which end of the scale you operate), remains!
Any genuinely worthwhile new problems on established crags will only be hard about by Chinese whispers and rumours, reinstating the crag mystery and tales that have been lost with the social media generation/must record everything zombies. How to stop people filming them though..? Maybe armed crag wardens? Or attack drones?
Pretending this isn't tongue in cheek for a moment, that's a truly awful idea for the main reason that it's going to stop the otherwise inexorable Bonjoy new-routing / retro-claiming machine in it's tracks.
:-\
OTOH attack drones for whoever claimed a sit start to Three Pocket Slab is entirely justifiable.
-
Just looking at Curbar - who knew there were 28 probs on the Trackside boulder, and 18 on the Gorilla Warfare face?
In fairness some of those aren't so recent; this there and back bollox dates from 1999!
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/curbar_edge-21/viet_kong-186596
I am in two minds on it all though, particularly as I'd quite like to get the back of the Calf at Ilkley properly documented.
-
When it comes to eliminates venues like the Calf or Pisa Wall I don't see any harm in letting people go crazy. So long as each one is unique then it's just more stuff to play on.
-
Come on, UKC logbooks are perfect for documenting daft link ups, eliminates and stuff.
Keep them out of the guidebooks and fuck giving them their own name but having them on the database is cool.
-
Just looking at Curbar - who knew there were 28 probs on the Trackside boulder, and 18 on the Gorilla Warfare face?
In fairness some of those aren't so recent; this there and back bollox dates from 1999!
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/curbar_edge-21/viet_kong-186596
I am in two minds on it all though, particularly as I'd quite like to get the back of the Calf at Ilkley properly documented.
Send us the pdf topo please once you're finished, or laminated card in the post.
I'm the ukc moderator for Caley and saw recently someone logging a new problem, which starts half way along an existing problem. I will to a serious cull soon. People will just need to suck it up that they can't log half a problem in their shiny logbook.
-
Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?
-
Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?
Copies of which are about as common as a clean spoon in your cutlery drawer.
-
Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?
For the privileged few who own a copy sure. It's pretty outdated though, holds have changed etc.
I'll get on it.
-
Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?
For the privileged few who own a copy sure. It's pretty outdated though, holds have changed etc.
I'll get on it.
Don't do it! Was hoping to sell mine in 30 years or so to fund my retirement.
-
Samesies. I've got a copy, we can start the bidding at 1k and a clean spoon.
Update sounds great though! I've been neglecting the calf this year.
-
Someone needs to market an augmented reality app for your phone. Prop your phone in your shoe in the correct location and it shines lights on the specified holds of whatever pointless eliminate your after.
-
When it comes to eliminates venues like the Calf or Pisa Wall I don't see any harm in letting people go crazy. So long as each one is unique then it's just more stuff to play on.
Yes, this. The Gorrilla Warfare face is actually quite suitable for it (Trackside isn't imo), although like you say, the described variants need to be clear, logical, and unique.
There is no argument of wasted space when it comes to online logging, but there is an issue of clarity and the maintenance of a record which will eventually get used as the basis of a print guide. On those grounds I think some means of segregating primary lines from secondary variants/links would be really useful.
-
Not disagreeing (though I'd be a bit harsher when it comes to logging any old variation because some are just stupid).
-
Come on, UKC logbooks are perfect for documenting daft link ups, eliminates and stuff.
Keep them out of the guidebooks and fuck giving them their own name but having them on the database is cool.
This is pretty much the conclusion I've reached. If people would restrain their urge to give a new name to something which is just a slight variation on something else, it would be a lot less confusing. And git tae fuck with 'claiming' them as well.
Bonjoy's idea of stacking problems sounds good, albeit potentially still confusing unless the moderator does a really good job (because an eliminate might belong equally to more than one 'parent' problem, etc).
Still holding the record for the daftest one I've seen is actually an old one from Dumby, which involved climbing a problem, reversing to the start, then going up again wronghanded (the parent problem being Slap Happy, which although classic is already slightly eliminate, and the wronghanded version Hap Slappy being a good example of a daft eliminate which is actually a lot of fun...)