UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => get involved: access, environment, BMC => Topic started by: Johnny Brown on May 12, 2020, 05:09:39 pm
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Not successful ascents - tiny blood sucking disease vectors.
Sad to say I got my first tick in the Peak a couple of weeks back - at Wyming Brook.
Also had a crawler last Oct at Curbar. I seem to be very attractive to them (and midges) - had loads in Scotland - and very mindful of Lyme disease as a friend has had a very long and grim battle with it.
Be interested if folk have experienced increasing prevalence?
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Not the Peak District but I have already had 6 ticks over here in Austria. Two on my lower stomach, two on my thigh, one on my arse and one in the scrotal area. I am also quite concerned about Lyme's disease. I have had no bull's eye rashes but have had a couple of periods of being very achey and fatigued which always makes me wonder. It could well be just over-exercising and lack of sleep though.
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Been clambered over underneath Mushin. I would be very wary of anywhere enclosed that sheep are liable to take shelter.
I don’t wear shorts if at all possible and changed my trousers to lighter colours so they’d be easier to spot. Lyme Disease seems worth making some effort to avoid tbh
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You checked out the https://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk site JohnM? Good advice there I think.
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This came up on my Facebook. Maybe worth sharing here (begin quote)
To the people I know in the Lakes, I picked this up on my feed and want to circulate it to all you outdoorsy types.
Hey everyone. Sorry to hijack the group a bit but Helen says you will understand. Just want to share some information without being alarmist or adding to your stress due to uncertain times. Also please confirm that the date is not April 1st.
I work in A&E in Whitehaven, Last week,by chance, we became aware that a positive test for the tick bourne disease 'Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever' had happened locally. We knew that the disease had reached Europe but did not know that it had reached the Cumbrian fells and woods. We have no idea how widespread it is but please be aware. It shows post-tick bite without a Lyme's style bullseye but with about 4-5 days malaise followed by a very typical little red spotted rash normally on ankles or the back of hands. This is the time to go to A&E or GP and get some antibiotics. Doxycycline is believed to be most effective. Your GP or A&E will assume you are drunk or have been consulting Dr Google but please persevere. It is a debilitating and long lasting illness with potential organ failure and a risk of encephalitis if untreated.
Sorry to share more 'bad news' but awareness will prevent problems. Please feel free to share as appropriate to friends or other woody workers. As I said we have no idea how widespread this is as yet.
Hope you are all well and healthy.
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I picked one up a Burbage South last year. Either on the walk in across moor from Fox House or at the top of Cioch quarry.
On Sunday I added to my Peak ticklist with one picked up on Blackamoor.
Probably no coincidence that both areas are popular with the red deer.
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It shows post-tick bite without a Lyme's style bullseye but with about 4-5 days malaise followed by a very typical little red spotted rash normally on ankles or the back of hands. This is the time to go to A&E or GP and get some antibiotics. Doxycycline is believed to be most effective. Your GP or A&E will assume you are drunk or have been consulting Dr Google but please persevere.
I was impressed at how seriously the pharmacist and doctor took things last year when I developed a red rash (not the typical bullseye) and swelling on the Thursday after being bitten on the leg in the Wye Valley on the Sunday.
Usually, it takes weeks and a lot of luck to get an appointment with my doctor. I saw the pharmacist at lunchtime after the swelling got rapidly worse during the work day and I developed a mild fever. I was seen by the doctor as quickly as I could drive over there.
I was tested for Lyme among other things. All tests came back negative and a course of antibiotics solved whatever it was but the swelling and fever got a lot worse before they got better. My leg resembled that of a morbidly obese pensioner who hadn't left their chair in years. By 3am on the Friday night, I was an hour or two away from going to hospital on the advice of 111 when the antibiotics kicked in rapidly. By Saturday afternoon I was walking again and on Sunday I was back climbing at the same crag (maybe not my smartest move) with just very mild swelling, a slight loss of sensation and lines of permanent marker all over my leg to indicate where the swelling had been at various stages.
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How are people spotting them? As a gentleman at the more hirsute end of the spectrum, bar top of my head, they are quite hard to spot.
Having had a couple of disasters on Scottish mountain marathons, one in which I had about 50 across my lower legs, I get pretty paranoid when running now and normally wear tights and high socks regardless of weather. Climbing, however, my trousers are oft rolled up at the ankle.
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By Saturday afternoon I was walking again and on Sunday I was back climbing at the same crag (maybe not my smartest move) with just very mild swelling, a slight loss of sensation and lines of permanent marker all over my leg to indicate where the swelling had been at various stages.
I was bitten by something on my lower leg whilst running along the Mersey a coupe of years ago. Red rash, swelling, hot and sore to the touch very quickly. I did the marker thing and toddled off to the GP. They, however, were not that fussed. I ended up with permanent marker all over my leg, which bore resemblance to an uncooked and over stuffed sausage, with no indication of where my ankle was. Whilst arguing with the GP to change to a different antibiotic (on the advice of my wife, a doctor, from a family of doctors) I said, "I really need this sorting, I'm going to Croatia for a wedding on Saturday" and the GP's response was, "Just wear some trousers, I'm not sure people will be looking at you, they'll be watching the happy couple".
Managed to get the anitbiotics, set off to the wedding and the whole thing exploded in a world of grimness in the airport. Spent quite a while in the airport toilets with antiseptic wipes and some wound dressing with my wife outside shouting, "Can I come in and squeeze it, it's so satisfying".
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Not the Peak District but I have already had 6 ticks over here in Austria. Two on my lower stomach, two on my thigh, one on my arse and one in the scrotal area. I am also quite concerned about Lyme's disease. I have had no bull's eye rashes but have had a couple of periods of being very achey and fatigued which always makes me wonder. It could well be just over-exercising and lack of sleep though.
Where are you based John? I am in Vienna. I've had ~10 bites this year so far, they absolutely love me for some reason. Most were removed within a couple of hours so I am not too concerned. After bashing through the forest the other day I got home and removed about 15 hikers and a 5 or so bites - pretty grim. I think I will be wearing long sleeves and elastic band around the ankles and wrists from now on in that area.
I've just had a tick borne encephalitis vaccine but I think we are still a few years away from a Lyme vaccine (at least).
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Climbing, however, my trousers are oft rolled up at the ankle.
Do you use DEET?
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Climbing, however, my trousers are oft rolled up at the ankle.
Do you use DEET?
I have started too, but with mixed success.
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Where are you based John? I am in Vienna. I've had ~10 bites this year so far, they absolutely love me for some reason. Most were removed within a couple of hours so I am not too concerned. After bashing through the forest the other day I got home and removed about 15 hikers and a 5 or so bites - pretty grim. I think I will be wearing long sleeves and elastic band around the ankles and wrists from now on in that area.
I've just had a tick borne encephalitis vaccine but I think we are still a few years away from a Lyme vaccine (at least).
I am based in Innsbruck. They seem to love me too whereas my girlfriend never gets them. I do have a tendency to go bushwhacking off the trail though looking at various bits of rock in the forest! I haven't had the encephalitis vaccine yet. Really need to get that done.
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How are people spotting them? As a gentleman at the more hirsute end of the spectrum, bar top of my head, they are quite hard to spot.
I find hairy legs actually help. I've picked loads from my hair before they've managed to penetrate. But long trouser tucked into socks and a healthy spray of DEET apparently helps.
And we all know no vaseline, no burning, no squeezing right? Tick hooks are available for less than half a fuckall, the card type can fit into your phone case.
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Has anyone tried treating clothes etc. with permethrin? Or using a picaridin/saltidin based repellent like Smidge? I've contemplated using permethrin but decided I'm not really comfortable with its broad-spectrum lethality to insects - I don't mind it killing ticks but don't want to leave a trail of dead pollinators in my wake.
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This whole thread is giving me the creeps! I hate ticks. Grim little things. They were bad in petrohrad in the czech republic when we where there last summer. Weirdly I've never had one bite me. Found them on me plenty of times. Everyone else we went with had at least one if not several. Dogs get them all the time.
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Has anyone tried treating clothes etc. with permethrin? Or using a picaridin/saltidin based repellent like Smidge? I've contemplated using permethrin but decided I'm not really comfortable with its broad-spectrum lethality to insects - I don't mind it killing ticks but don't want to leave a trail of dead pollinators in my wake.
My last tick attack (Cornwall last summer) I found they loved my decathlon grey soft shell - and my Grey moon satellite/small/footwiping pad. No interest in anything else. Really weird.
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Hmm. Been recently thinking I should start carrying a tick thingy. Something like this (https://www.outside.co.uk/care-plus-tick-out-remover.html)?
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Lyme Disease Action sell a few on their site, see link: https://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/what-we-are-doing/shop/
I got one of the o tom twister things but haven't used it in anger.
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I've got a pair of tick tools I carry but to be honest I rarely find ticks until I'm back home and the tools rarely work as well as fingernails.
Getting into the habit of tucking my trousers in before going in bracken/ heather and brushing my trousers down afterwards.
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Those are a bit fiddly and could break if left lying in a pack / wallet / etc for a few months / years. Just get the hooks, they are recommended by Lyme Watch etc and watch a vid on appropriate use.
If you ever get bitten, keep the body of the removed tick in a fold of bogroll or a little bank bag so it can be tested if you come down with anything.
Fingernails, you can squeeze the tick, or leave mouthparts behind. Best persevere with twisting
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The Cornwall fuckers were tiny. Tweezers job. Tick removal thingy just too blunt...
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But long trouser tucked into socks and a healthy spray of DEET apparently helps.
Yeah if I'm going somewhere I know I might be at risk then I always wear full length light coloured trousers, tucked into socks, and then douse those down with DEET. Usually do that for the walk in and then change into shorts if it's hot when I get to the crag and am just stood on pads etc.
I hate ticks, amazing how some people seem so relaxed about them. I've found quite a few on me over the years (never in the Peak) but never had a bite as I'm always pretty vigilant about checking for them whilst climbing / after the walk in. I think DEET maybe helps with this, I.e. slows them down and makes them less likely to bite? Giving you time to find them on you before if you're checking regularly.
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Must admit after several incidents I'm a bit relaxed about them, but the first few times it's pretty grim. Creag Dubh is the worst I've ever encountered, the crag is overun with feral goats. We stupidly walked off the top of the route we did in rock shoes without socks and i removed well over a dozen from from each leg at the bottom.
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I have had bloody loads of Ticks. Mainly from the Lakes, but Northumberland, Cornwall and Yorkshire. I have even had one in December when it was snowing!!!
Not sure if this is correct, maybe someone can add clarity, but I do remember reading that, if you get them out within the first 12hrs you are usually okay? Something about that Lyme disease being released when the Tick is trying to release itself from you?
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Hmm. Been recently thinking I should start carrying a tick thingy. Something like this (https://www.outside.co.uk/care-plus-tick-out-remover.html)?
I think this type is better as you can see that the grippy bits are going under the tick - quite easy to squash the tick with the other sort as they cover the hole tick. Squashing the tick squeezes their stomach juices (and any diseases) into you.
https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-remover (https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-remover)
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Not sure if this is correct, maybe someone can add clarity, but I do remember reading that, if you get them out within the first 12hrs you are usually okay? Something about that Lyme disease being released when the Tick is trying to release itself from you?
Yeah that's right. Might be longer actually but sooner better.
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Big Moor.
Parked on A621 (Owler Bar - Baslow Rd). Crossed gate and walked parallel with wall in southerly direction from lay-by at SK 282 757 down to the other lay-by with white gate where you walk into Bar Brook Stone Circle/swimming spot on the big track. Picked up quite a few ticks in the long grass beside the wall.
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Cheers. Numbers really seem to have jumped up this year.
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The moors from Blackamoor down to the Curbar road seems to be the worst place for them. Not surprising given the large red deer population I guess.
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Not sure if this is correct, maybe someone can add clarity, but I do remember reading that, if you get them out within the first 12hrs you are usually okay? Something about that Lyme disease being released when the Tick is trying to release itself from you?
Yeah that's right. Might be longer actually but sooner better.
My understanding is that while they are feeding, fluid goes from you to them so there is no risk. that could be 24 hrs or more. when they drop off, they leave a little bit of fluid and that is when infection can occur. if you distress them when trying to get them off, they will regurgitate some of their stomach contents into you. Best avoided!
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Hmm. Been recently thinking I should start carrying a tick thingy. Something like this (https://www.outside.co.uk/care-plus-tick-out-remover.html)?
I think this type is better as you can see that the grippy bits are going under the tick - quite easy to squash the tick with the other sort as they cover the hole tick. Squashing the tick squeezes their stomach juices (and any diseases) into you.
https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-remover (https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-remover)
I have this exact tick remover, as they seem to be running rampant around South Lakes Lime. It's a good tool, but sometimes it lacks the tension to pull the tick out by itself, so some fiddling around to pull the plunger up whilst taking a tick out is needed, but does an effective job.
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Couple of weeks ago Mrs sidewinder and I got lots on trousers both ways to walnut boulder (low approach) think all removed before they found flesh
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Ironically - I was sat last evening catching up with UKb and reading this very thread with a beer having just got back from a work trip to the lakes (that conveniently included a quick idyllic sunset evenings bouldering at St Bee's :bounce:)
Not ten minutes later, I noticed something on my knee, which was a tick!
Not sure how long it had been on me, didn't seem like it was 24 hours as it was still absolutely tiny.
Got the old https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-remover out and whipped it off. No bullseye rash yet, but a bit sore and itchy.
I've got the tick in cellotape - should I send it somewhere??
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Just to flag up (just bought one) they have a compact folding version of the tick tool for £3
https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-remover?sku=34022
Free P&P and there was 15% off with a popup voucher on the site today....
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Found a big bugger walking cross our kitchen floor the other week - obviously filled up then dropped off the dog. He had been treated against ticks already but this one somehow had a good feed anyway... Think he got it from either houndkirk moor or the woods near grindleford (spooner lane).
Early this week my daughter (2yo) had a tiny tick bite her next to her eye. It was really small and i think she picked this up from rolling down a bank on freshly cut grass at millhouses park. Managed to get it off quite easily. Hoping she hasnt got lyme disease!
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Christ, Millhouses park would be concerning! You don't think it might have come off the dog?
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Christ, Millhouses park would be concerning! You don't think it might have come off the dog?
I guess it could've but we'd been outside most of the day and she hadn't been near him that much. Only noticed it after the hill rolling but I guess that could've been coincidence or she got unlucky and it came off a dog then onto her from the grass. We're a bit tick paranoid now....
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Just pulled one off the cat. First I've seen locally.
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Found one on my upper thigh after I got out of the sea this morning (so, umm, not the Peak). Suppose I must have got it walking through long grass down to the beach. No bullseye, soreness or itchiness. The area is full of red deer.
Growing up I spent most my life out in the countryside and don't remember once hearing of, being warned about, or encountering ticks. Ditto all my years climbing in the Peak. Is this a new phenomenon, and if so why?
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It feels like it to me. Never saw one in the Peak till 2018. Never used to see red dear either though.
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Found one on my upper thigh after I got out of the sea this morning (so, umm, not the Peak). Suppose I must have got it walking through long grass down to the beach. No bullseye, soreness or itchiness. The area is full of red deer.
You see earlier note about keeping dead ones in case you get a reaction, so it can be tested if needed?
My brother and a mate both picked them up walking in long coast grass on Lindisfarne, not a place where you would expect to find much wildlife.
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I've never seen a tick in my life until this year and I've done a lot of bushwhacking !). saw 2 in the last week, not in the peak mind you.
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Growing up I spent most my life out in the countryside and don't remember once hearing of, being warned about, or encountering ticks. Ditto all my years climbing in the Peak. Is this a new phenomenon, and if so why?
I think I have read that milder winters are allowing their range to expand northwards. I've also think that prolonged dry weather seems to be their preferred climate. Here in Austria I was getting bitten everytime I went bouldering a few months back - and it had barely rained for months. Now that the weather is more humid and showery I havn't seen one for about 6 weeks.
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It sounds like it has been a record year in Austria according to reports from dog owners. Like bigironhorse said the mild winter and then the dry period during April dries out the trees and improves the survival rate of tick eggs. I have had at least 10 ticks this year. I can't remember getting any last year. I had a couple of days of very bad fatigue and joint aches a couple of weeks back and was instantly worried I had picked up Lymes or even worse TBE/FSME. Luckily my blood test came back normal and I tested negative for FSME. I just had my second FSME vaccine yesterday so hopefully I should have some immunity now for this season. I am not sure if TBE/FSME is even a problem (yet) in the UK though but cases are increasing in Austria.
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A couple of cases have been seen in southern UK apparently https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tick-borne-encephalitis-virus-detected-in-ticks-in-the-uk
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I was up at the Bridestones in Dalby Forrest last week with my daughter and her 2 dogs. One of which is a white long haired German Spitz, we must has picked 30 or more ticks off him while we were there. Ever time he went in to the bracken there would be some on home, fortunately they didn’t get chance to bite. She did find a couple that had attached later and one on the other dog.
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I am not sure if TBE/FSME is even a problem (yet) in the UK though but cases are increasing in Austria.
You can get vaccinated against TBE, available through travel vaccine clinics in the UK. I had one a few years back for going to Germany. However I do know someone that had exactly the same vaccine and had a bad reaction at the injection site (which is still red and swollen 6 years later).
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You can get vaccinated against TBE, available through travel vaccine clinics in the UK. I had one a few years back for going to Germany. However I do know someone that had exactly the same vaccine and had a bad reaction at the injection site (which is still red and swollen 6 years later).
I had my second one here in Austria yesterday. I just didn't know whether it was offered in the UK. From what I read, it is available, but not via the NHS. I still have to pay 31 Euros per dose and need three over a year as the full cost is not covered by my insurance. Still, I would rather pay than risk contracting TBE despite the risk being relatively small. I was just kicked into action by shear number of ticks I was getting. Every time I left the house at one point! I didn't want to keep rolling that dice. I am obviously still at risk from Lyme's but I would hope that if I spotted that early it could be shifted by antibiotics before any chronic issues could develop.
Luckily I have had no issues so far with the vaccine except the usual achy deltoid. I think injection site flare-ups and scar tissue development can be an issue with many vaccines in certain people unfortunately.
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I think I have read that milder winters are allowing their range to expand northwards.
I don't think this is the case in the UK, they have been rife in Scotland for a long time, with some hotspots like Rum, but I've got them anywhere in Scotland where there is wildlife present, as far east as Deeside.
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Our cat has had a few (suburban West Yorkshire) over the years. I had one as a child after a walk in North Wales. Apparently there are certain routes in the Lakes like Totalitarian where you're guaranteed to get them.
I hate the thought of them and habitually wear long trousers for most climbing unless it's somewhere really barren (Almscliff/Kilnsey etc)
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I got a tick walking around froggatt last summer...bumbling around renegade master area.
So strange since I've been bushwhacking around the peak for almost 20 years and had never got a tick until then.
I was kinda under the naive impression ticks weren't an issue in the peak.
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(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/p720x720/13246305_1120252398012931_2883490092554357726_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=3vue01grvuEAX92X1oE&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=0dcff08d10995f8bce1d12765240341e&oe=5F1A586A)
- hopefully this is visible - zoom in to the cuff. A typical day out in the Scottish Hills. P.S. They don't seem the like compression stockings tho.
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Whitehaven
the Mersey
Vienna
czech republic
Cornwall
Creag Dubh
Lakes
Northumberland
Cornwall
Yorkshire
Lindisfarne
suburban West Yorkshire
North Wales
the Lakes
Scotland
Rum
Scotland
Deeside.
Austria
Germany
Loads of great data for JB’s Peak District tick survey here. :lol:
Tuesday night I waded through the deep bracken between the green drive and Carl Wark with my other half like a couple of idiots who are scared of cows. Both of us were wearing shorts and neither of us got ticks if that’s helpful.
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I hate the thought of them and habitually wear long trousers for most climbing unless it's somewhere really barren (Almscliff/Kilnsey etc)
I invested in some lighter coloured trousers instead of dark cypher pants so I could see them better.
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I thought ticks were predominantly a scotland / wales / lakes thing! I've been out and about in the Peak for around 10 years now and can't remember ever getting tick-ed in the peak. I often do a casual check for ticks out of habit but will be much more careful from now on. Thanks for bringing this up JB.
My +1, of places I've been in the peak since lockdown ended that involved some bushwacking: houndkirk, tintwhistle, stanage area, curbar area and baslow area. Saw deer at tintwhistle, have seen deer in the curbar woods in previous years. no ticks.
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They can be quite random in where they seem to make an appearance. For example in May 2018 I went up to Scotland and had a bouldering session at Mini Magic Wood near Loch Lomond. The place was absolutely infested and I must have taken several dozen off my dog throughout the day. Avoided being bitten myself but most horrifying though was on the drive home when I saw a big fat one crawling towards me next to the gear stick...
Anyway, went back the following year fully anticipating more of the same; don't think I saw a single one :-\
Yet to see any in Yorkshire (other than at Stoupe Brow) or the Peak but plenty around South Lakes Lime and saw a few at Carrock Fell once.
Not sure I'd be keen on getting vaccinated, would rather just be super strict about wearing clothing that will show them up and using DEET etc. to try and avoid them biting but suppose there's always a risk one of the tiny ones will get through. Horrible little shits.
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I've had them on my eyelid (Lakes) and testicles (Scotland - noticed that one in the bath, 2 days after I'd been to the crag, had been wondering why me baws were a bit itchy). No Lymes thank fuck.
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First one was in my Garden in Wales in 2003.
I’ve had them at S Lakes lime a couple of times...
None from any Lancs moors yet (though seen deer) - I’ve taken precautions (trousers tucked in etc..) when thrashing up to Blackstone and other places but not had any.
Would be a great opportunity for some citizen science - report them via app etc.. see where the hotspots are (geographically - not Fiends nuts obvs).
My worst was last year near Bosigran. Apparently there the sheep are on an organic farm so they don’t get dipped. Not just down to the deer....
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Hang on a sec, let me dig up a photo....
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13418979_1131202383584599_4767473103330989593_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_ohc=tG0ZEg4W67EAX-TMvQ1&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=6cd2b0085b1a2506f25d683cd906f206&oe=5F185845)
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Looks like a right bastard
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Aye. So does the tick.
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Aargh, fuck that
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Had been on overnight too :wub:
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My worst was last year near Bosigran. Apparently there the sheep are on an organic farm so they don’t get dipped. Not just down to the deer....
Me too. Got back to the carpark and made sure we got rid of them all. Caused a massive panic amongst a few families sat round eating their lunch, all frantically checking each other for ticks!
Had them in North Wales (The Llyn if I remember correctly) but none in the Peak yet. Though a mate said he had one from Blackamoor yesterday.
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Loads of great data for JB’s Peak District tick survey here. :lol:
I'm sure if JiBe wasn't happy about it being a general conversation about ticks he would have said so a while back.
My aunt picked up Lyme's a while back in N Wales, well she got the full bull's eye rash, got a full on series of antibiotics and nipped it in the bud quite quickly. To add to her ticklist of illnesses which includes malaria and meningitis.
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The worst place I have visited for them was Chapel Head Scar. All round the line of my harness legs loops and in my testicles. However as the missus had remove them it wasn’t all bad.
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Worst place for me was Raven Crag in Thirlmere,
I got about 6, but my mate, who was wearing shorts and a vest top, got about 28 I think he said. We were involved in some proper bushwacking, the whole approach/decent (didn't fancy the ab tat one bit) etc was somewhat overgrown.
Most recent one was at St Bees, Not sure where from, presumably in cattle field where I sat and made a 10 minute phone call, rather than the descent path down the cliff.
Non in the peak as yet.
Hate the little bastards.
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The worst place I have visited for them was Chapel Head Scar. All round the line of my harness legs loops and in my testicles. However as the missus had remove them it wasn’t all bad.
Romantic :lol:
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Hate the little bastards.
They seem to exist in that special category of creature - also including wasps, midges, and jellyfish - whose sole purpose is to make life much more miserable without adding any ecological benefit. But perhaps I'm missing out on all the great things they do?
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Wasps eat damaging insects on a significant scale I believe.
Jellyfish feed turtles?
Midges can get fucked though.
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Hate the little bastards.
They seem to exist in that special category of creature - also including wasps, midges, and jellyfish - whose sole purpose is to make life much more miserable without adding any ecological benefit. But perhaps I'm missing out on all the great things they do?
Gorse. The wasps of the plant world. And no it's not actually that pretty before anyone starts. And mosquitos and tsetse fly, the most dangerous animals in Africa.
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Gorse burns nicely though! Jellyfish don’t
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Hate the little bastards.
They seem to exist in that special category of creature - also including wasps, midges, and jellyfish - whose sole purpose is to make life much more miserable without adding any ecological benefit. But perhaps I'm missing out on all the great things they do?
Got another one for you. Sea lice. Way worse than jellies in my opinion and I've been stung by both...
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Gorse burns nicely though! Jellyfish don’t
You clearly weren't using enough napalm.
Sea lice as in the ones that hide in cracks, or ones that live in the water? I've had the ones on the rocks fall down my shirt when climbing, not sure they bite but scratched about like hell and were pretty distracting.
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Wasps eat damaging insects on a significant scale I believe.
Jellyfish feed turtles?
Midges can get fucked though.
Wasps pollinate a heck of a lot of flowers apparently, and control some pests... Can still do one though.
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Gorse burns nicely though! Jellyfish don’t
You clearly weren't using enough napalm.
Sea lice as in the ones that hide in cracks, or ones that live in the water? I've had the ones on the rocks fall down my shirt when climbing, not sure they bite but scratched about like hell and were pretty distracting.
They're in the tropics, and live in the top metre or so of the sea. I experienced them roughly 9 years old in Malaysia. They got into my swim trunks and I had to make a mad dash onto the beach to find a shower to get rid of them. A burning sensation I couldn't describe :'(
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Yikes!
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https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/Debunking_the_Sea_Lice_Myth#:~:text=Sea%20lice%20are%20actually%20fish,the%20thimble%20jellyfish%2C%20Linuche%20unguiculata.
Well I stand corrected - the little bastards may have been jellies (larvae) after all!
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I know its not the peak, but a friend of mine appears to have finally (he's very tasty to ticks so often suffers bites) caught Lymes, from a bite in cheddar last week. He's on the antibiotics so fingers crossed the early diagnosis and treatment will spare him the the long term effects, but be careful out there, even down south.
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Growing up I spent most my life out in the countryside and don't remember once hearing of, being warned about, or encountering ticks. Ditto all my years climbing in the Peak. Is this a new phenomenon, and if so why?
They used to dip sheep with really toxic shit, which they don't any more. That and the deer - but most UK ticks are "sheep" ticks (not that they only feed on sheep).
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Hate the little bastards.
They seem to exist in that special category of creature - also including wasps, midges, and jellyfish - whose sole purpose is to make life much more miserable without adding any ecological benefit. But perhaps I'm missing out on all the great things they do?
I genuinely don't mind tics these days, think I just got really used to them when living in Scotland. Had hundreds on me over the years and been bitten a good few times but fortunately never had any issues.
A day out in a tic infested place, I just take precautions and do a good check when we're done. Midges on the other can easily ruin my day, they truly are little f***ers.
I accept that I would probably feel differently if I had contacted anything.
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I thought ticks were predominantly a scotland / wales / lakes thing! I've been out and about in the Peak for around 10 years now and can't remember ever getting tick-ed in the peak. I often do a casual check for ticks out of habit but will be much more careful from now on. Thanks for bringing this up JB.
My +1, of places I've been in the peak since lockdown ended that involved some bushwacking: houndkirk, tintwhistle, stanage area, curbar area and baslow area. Saw deer at tintwhistle, have seen deer in the curbar woods in previous years. no ticks.
Second this post, have been fell running in Peak for 20 years mostly running off paths...never been ticked.
Only place I’ve had then is eskdale and new forest.
Will keep an eye.
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Had another up on Howden moor last week, a big 'un for a change. I had been thrashing through the heather a bit.
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Stay Lyme free till 2025 then it's all gravy......
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2250045-lyme-disease-vaccine-found-to-be-safe-and-effective-in-clinical-trial/
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Just Tick Borne Encephalitis and Rocky Mountain Fever to worry about!
Vaccine can't come too soon, wife is morbidly paranoid about kids going anywhere near long any high grass or bracken.
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We spent a full day on Helman Tor yesterday and didn’t see a single tick.
This morning I picked up a slow worm to show our little boy, and a few minutes later we realised that we were covered in ticks. At least a dozen on one of my wife’s feet alone. About half a dozen on me and a few on our little boy.
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Anyone used permethrin on clothes? Successfully/not? Just bought some of this stuff to try out: https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/ex4-anti-mosquito-spray
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Anyone used permethrin on clothes? Successfully/not? Just bought some of this stuff to try out: https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/ex4-anti-mosquito-spray
I've used max strength jungle formula with DEET on my clothes before when going to a known tick hotspot. Definitely felt like it slowed them down at least and potentially prevented some staying on my trousers for long.
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I get it's not the best clear cut science (as Slackers would point out) but I used to have a pair of the Craghoppers Nosilife trousers which are apparently treated with permethrin, and never got a tick on me while wearing them....
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Just Tick Borne Encephalitis and Rocky Mountain Fever to worry about!
And babesiosis:
BBC News - First England case diagnosed of tick-borne babesiosis
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53613459
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Just Tick Borne Encephalitis and Rocky Mountain Fever to worry about!
And babesiosis:
BBC News - First England case diagnosed of tick-borne babesiosis
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53613459
I think there is a vaccine for TBE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick-borne_encephalitis_vaccine
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Probably not free on NHS though..
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You can get the TBE vaccine through travel clinics - costs about £40. You need 2 or 3 a few months apart to get immunity, then a booster every few years. I got them a few years ago, but haven't kept up with the boosters after a couple of people I know had reactions to them at the injection site (swelling/itching/redness) that still bother them 10-ish years later. Apparently it's a known side effect/complication of that vaccine. I'm not sure if there are other TBE vaccines without that issue.
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I had it in Austria (called FSME but I think it is the same thing) it was two doses about 3-4 weeks apart.
I cannot wait for the Lyme vaccine, its absolutely crawling with ticks over here, must have had 30-40 bites this year. Apparently 20% carry Lyme in my area but I think 50% carry some kind of pathogen that can be transferred to humans. I wonder if there is some way to volunteer for the next trial as someone with a high risk of getting it.
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Not Peak, but more to bump this thread and make others aware.
Still haven't found ticks on me after climbing in the peak but had been bitten by 2 after bouldering nr Llyn Gwynant a couple of weekends ago.
Tend to check before heading home and then again after arriving home.
A couple of days later, I found another fcuker on a spot I'd thoroughly checked, twice.
Removed OK and monitoring but makes me wonder how many I've probably missed over the years.
It had probably ridden home on my pads, or clothes.
Does anyone do anything in particular to kill them off from clothes worn while bashing about in areas known to have a lot of ticks?
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I have started using the permethrin i linked to above ^^. No ticks yet. Mind you, i haven't been out that much since so it's early to comment on effectiveness.
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I've had one in a month on Skye, and not through avoiding tick territory. One more spotted on my jeans shortly after some heather-bashing. Maybe they just don't like me?
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I've had one in a month on Skye, and not through avoiding tick territory. One more spotted on my jeans shortly after some heather-bashing. Maybe they just don't like me?
This is kinda how I felt until this year. A friend got Lymes which made me think a bit more about it. I've been out a fair amount since lockdown and these I the first 3 I've seen this year, and first bite I've ever knowingly had. Like you, I don't avoid tick-y areas.
Probably had more, but just didn't look well enough.
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I have started using the permethrin i linked to above ^^. No ticks yet. Mind you, i haven't been out that much since so it's early to comment on effectiveness.
Awesome, thanks. I'll take a look.
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Yes, I'm thorough when it comes to tick-checking as I'm worried about Lyme's disease, but I never actually seem to have any! Others seem to get them more frequently from similar areas. Odd. All anecdotal evidence though!
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Yes, I'm thorough when it comes to tick-checking as I'm worried about Lyme's disease, but I never actually seem to have any! Others seem to get them more frequently from similar areas. Odd. All anecdotal evidence though!
Yeh, absolutely, it's really strange. I feel the same as you, to spend the best part of 2 decades messing about outdoors and to have only seen one bite me does seem odd given they're obviously about. Would be interesting to see if there's anything to it.
Maybe we just don't taste nice :lol:
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You might have naturally repellent pheromones, like people who midges don't like.
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Sounds about right, I think they also work on humans.
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Was walking my dog in Curbar woods at the weekend and we stopped for a snack with the kids and I saw an adult tick crawling across the dogs fur.
Good to find one before it was latched on.
Also, someone's been cleaning up some of the boulders around there. There's loads of great easy problems in that woods which would make a great low grade circuit.
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Was there at the weekend too, saw a small herd of deer half way through, don't they carry ticks? It is a magical place all the same :)
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Just found a tick on me after a walk along the top of Froggatt, under the crag and a brief look at the stone circle. Barely brushed past any bracken so quite surprised.
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I've picked up ticks at Froggatt, Curbar and Yarncliffe in the last two weeks, including one today that I must have got on Weds eve. Seems like every time I go to anywhere with red deer activity. Much more of a menace this year than midges.
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Not the Peak but...
Found a tick on my dog last night. Can only have come from either my back garden or green spaces within short walking distance of my house in West Leeds. Never would have thought this was possible before!
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Molly picked loads up in the Meanwood Valley last year, it's pretty much a trade route for roe deer.
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Hmmm, last year we were walking el doggo daily along the Meanwood Valley and she was all over the place causing havoc. Never noticed a tick on her, but then again, I don't think we were necessarily looking all that hard.
She's picked up a few this summer though, either from Kilnsey or the Chevin.
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In other biting mite news, I got my first few chigger/harvest mite bites of the year today. Presumably from Dale Quarry, though they might have been from Apparent North last night.
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In other biting mite news, I got my first few chigger/harvest mite bites of the year today. Presumably from Dale Quarry, though they might have been from Apparent North last night.
Have you ever had these at grit crags before? I’d always had them down as a limestone only thing. Never had them in the Peak either, it was always South Lakes and Yorkshire.
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Kids got some harvest mite bites up in the lakes couple of weeks ago, but I'm never had them in the Peak.
Are the mites themselves invisible, never actually seen one!!
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I think it was from the lime to be honest. I've never knowingly got bitten on a grit crag, but they are very seasonal and I generally tend to be on lime during that seasons, so they may not actually be fussy about rock type. They seem to like perma-dry veg at the base of steep crags. Yes, they're practically invisible to the naked eye. I've never seen one, only the bites.
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BITD some friends of mine in Lancaster used to refer to them as Storth Mites, as in their memory (20+ years older than me) they were very localised around the South Lakes limestone crags (Storth is near Silverdale and Arnside). Over the time I was in that area, they became more widespread such that they were common in people’s gardens in Kendal.
Sounds like they’re spreading further and further each year, kind of like what we’re seeing with ticks. I think they’re related in some way, so maybe prospering for similar reasons?
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I think it was from the lime to be honest. I've never knowingly got bitten on a grit crag, but they are very seasonal and I generally tend to be on lime during that seasons, so they may not actually be fussy about rock type. They seem to like perma-dry veg at the base of steep crags. Yes, they're practically invisible to the naked eye. I've never seen one, only the bites.
I was told not to leave your jumper on bare ground at the base crags like Kilnsey "because the mites live on birds and then fall out of the nests onto the ground". No idea if that's true or not but might explain why you find them in those locations.
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I heard that too. A yorkshire climber I spoke to at Kilnsey referred to them as birdmites. As far as I can tell it's apocryphal. They certainly turn up at plenty of crags with no sign of nests or suitable nest sites on them.
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I've been absolutely nailed by some sort of insect in the last few weeks and think it must be due to these harvest mite things. I'd previously thought it must be midges. They've bitten me all around the harness waistline. Must have 50 bites. Little bastards. I've only been at Malham so worth avoiding leaving clothes on the ground etc until it gets properly cold...
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Classic chiggers. Absolute bastards
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Mrs T_B picked up a tick yesterday evening above Millstone. Sounds like they walked through some heather to get back on the path.
Seems like they’re spreading :no:
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Over the last couple of weeks the dogs have had more ticks on them than ever before (luckily not many actually biting as the tick tablets they have seem to work) Nowhere very unusual - Millstone, Froggatt, Abney Moor, Grindleford wood etc but the frequency and the fact they seem to have them even when they haven't been charging through the undergrowth gives the impression they are a lot more common than before. Luckily I haven't yet had one on me, even though I seem very attractive to midges and ants etc ticks don't go for me much - I've noticed this in Scotland before when on a fair few occasions folk I'm with have had multiple bites and I've had none (and I've been wearing shorts the last few weeks)
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I've had 2 mates plus myself pick up ticks on Deeside the last few months. Once was up Vat Burn, climbing with our kids. The two boys were in and around in the vegetation, the whole time, whereas we were mostly involved climbing and setting up ropes for them. I had 2 on me in the evening, he had one, neither of the boys got any, the dog had about a half dozen.
The other mate was wild camping with his boys, he got one, his kids none. He's currently getting treated for Lymes.
I have a theory that hairiness could be a factor; hair gives them something to latch onto, but nothing to really substantiate this other than that I have manage to get rid of some in the past which are hanging onto hair but not yet made it in to skin (notably at Creag Dubh the most tick infested place I have ever been, thanks apparently to the feral goats). Not implying anyone is hairier than they should be btw :).
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Sorry for the slight thread hijack but down here in the SW they're a fucking nightmare. The antibiotics for Lymes are rough too.
I recently got these tick machines for the kids as they seem to get them the most. The send out a high pitched noise that they don't like. They weren't cheap (£30 each from memory) but after the last few years I thought fuck it.
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I recently got these tick machines for the kids as they seem to get them the most. The send out a high pitched noise that they don't like. They weren't cheap (£30 each from memory) but after the last few years I thought fuck it.
Did they work?
After getting 12 ticks from a day at Eskdale Fisherground, I'm keen to avoid playing so many rounds of Lyme Roulette again any time soon.
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As far as I know yes. They aren't 100% effective and they don't claim to be but I've been using them (well the kids have) for about a month and so far so good.
Just looked it up, here's the adult one...
shorturl.at/uABM7
Reviews are a bit mixed to be fair
P.s. I've nothing to do with the company etc...
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DEET spray (use at own risk) and apparently Citronella is a known deterrent. If you find any on you it's apparently a good idea to kill them and keep them once removed so they can be tested if you start to show any symptoms. As a precautionary measure you can apparently post them to a lab to be tested too (at a cost).
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So I came down with a pretty heavy fever, chills, joint pain, headaches, fatigue about 3/4 weeks ago. Have recently developed a rash which is consistent with pictures of 'multiple erythema migrans' I found through doing some 'research'. Saw Dr last week who diagnosed that I have had a virus which they can't identify and the rash is a post viral rash that should go away with time.
Pretty clear now it's Lyme and I am back to Dr's tomorrow.
Most likely Exmoor which I realise is not the Peaks (I did that to annoy pedants here :tease:). Wonder whether anyone has had Lyme and can talk about recovery after treatment? Not feeling 100% at present although the fever has gone.
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When I went to see a doctor in Sheffield he had never heard of Lyme and after a brief check online assured me it was vanishingly rare, nothing to worry about and waved me away.
So I would suggest downloading/ printing some official literature from NHS Scotland or similar - there are signs up to check for bullring rash everywhere in the Highlands. I suspect they are faced with self-diagnosed viruses every day. Sounds like you should be early enough for the antibiotics to have a chance though. Has the illness passed?
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Thanks for response JB. Fever has passed, still have rash but not the classic bullseye, I have multiple patches. Still feel under the weather, low energy/tired.
Have checked NICE guidelines and they should prescribe antibiotics on sight of the rash I have or the classic bullseye. Will go armed with this to Dr's tomorrow morning.
Will update here on how it goes.
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I listened to a podcast by a lady from Lyme Action. You could ask them for advice. She said classic bullring formation was <50% and maybe no clear rash in some cases Draw a line in biro round the edge if the rash and take a pic. One sign of lymes is an expanding rash so you should see it expand- keep drawing perimeter and taking pics to show the doc.
Hope you get antibiotics and start feeling better soon Brutus.
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I've removed a couple from my legs after sessions at Baslow in the last couple of weeks. Nothing's come of them thank goodness. Never had them before despite frequently bashing through the bracken in Summer over the years.
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I listened to a podcast by a lady from Lyme Action. You could ask them for advice. She said classic bullring formation was <50% and maybe no clear rash in some cases Draw a line in biro round the edge if the rash and take a pic. One sign of lymes is an expanding rash so you should see it expand- keep drawing perimeter and taking pics to show the doc.
Hope you get antibiotics and start feeling better soon Brutus.
My advantage is that the Dr has seen the rash(es) and they have increased in size since last week. Having read up on this in the last few days the rash I have is unique to Lyme and not something I found when generally researching rashes to try and find out what the hell is going on.
Yeah. I just want to get those antibiotics and get on with blitzing those bacteria!
Found this article really helpful and it has a flowchart for Dr's to follow if they need it. I have the 3rd rash that is depicted on the page. https://www.guidelinesinpractice.co.uk/infection/lyme-disease-when-to-suspect-and-how-to-manage/454252.article (https://www.guidelinesinpractice.co.uk/infection/lyme-disease-when-to-suspect-and-how-to-manage/454252.article)
Really interested to hear how anyone who's had it have gone with recovery and treatment..
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I'll be quoting this..
Erythema migrans is pathognomonic of Lyme disease and requires no other additional testing
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Good luck. Did you see the tick? I will be trying to keep any in future just to prove to any over confident medics that I know both what one is and that I have definitely been bitten by them. It was only at the end of our conversation that it became clear the doctor had assumed that I'd found the whole thing on google.
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Good luck. Did you see the tick? I will be trying to keep any in future just to prove to any over confident medics that I know both what one is and that I have definitely been bitten by them. It was only at the end of our conversation that it became clear the doctor had assumed that I'd found the whole thing on google.
In this case I'll be encouraging my Dr to use Google! Didn't see the tick and can only assume it had it's fill and left me. Or I have lost the memory of having the tick, memory loss is a symptom right!?
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Ended up seeing a different Doctor this morning, she had NICE guidelines on Lyme disease up on her screen pretty quick, upon seeing my rash (and photos of earlier stages of the rash) then comparing that to photos on NICE page quickly prescribed a course of antibiotics. No testing required :)
My advice if you get bitten by a tick is to either keep it once you've removed it (as JB suggests) or get a photo of it in-situ so you can evidence the bite.
If you can't evidence the tick bite make sure doctors know you spend lots of time in the outdoors in 'ticky' areas or have been exposed to tick bites previously.
If you get the classic 'bullseye' rash at the site of the bite get a photo of it and more photos as it changes/grows.
If you get the 'secondary' multiple rashes (like me) do the same (mine have grown and are fading so there may have been no evidence in a few days time.)
Don't assume the doctors know much about Lyme disease, ask them to use the NICE guidelines.
You don't need a test to get treatment and the NICE guidelines point this out.
A chill/fever/joint pain/headache/neck aches can be the only initial symptoms don't assume you will get a rash some people don't.
21 day course of doxycycline 2 x 100mg a day.
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I'm glad to hear that Brutus. Hope it does the trick. All sounds like good advice, I was pretty shocked at the ignorance I encountered given the level of awareness among climbers.
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Cheers JB. The antibiotics are kicking in and already feeling much more with it today. Bit annoying that they cause photosensitivity, I'm already 'ginger skinned', but small price to pay.
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I'm glad to hear that Brutus. Hope it does the trick. All sounds like good advice, I was pretty shocked at the ignorance I encountered given the level of awareness among climbers.
Not just Lyme's but all illness really. TBF, most GPs can't have encyclopaedic knowledge of all illnesses in their head, but when I saw a GP many years back with all the symptoms of Shingles, they literally googled it in front of me, compared pics and symptoms and agreed that's what it was; whereas I would assume that it's a pretty common illness, albeit in older people.
Bit annoying that they cause photosensitivity, I'm already 'ginger skinned', but small price to pay.
Yeah - me and Mrs took some as anti-malarials many years ago - she's fairly fair-skinned and her skin took a pounding, especially given we were in Cambodia, took months to recover.
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More ominous tick news. Japanese Encephalitis case in Yorkshire
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/05/hikers-urged-to-check-themselves-for-ticks-after-deadly-virus-found-in-uk
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Not really the Peak but....I found a tick on my dog after a visit to Anston Stones yesterday. Never seen them there before. In fairness I did visit one of the more esoteric areas, which was quite overgrown, so most likely he picked it up there, but still. Thankfully it hadn't bitten him despite finding it about 2 hours after we'd left the crag, so his tick collar seems to work, but I'd rather not have brought it back home!!
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I'll keep an eye out as I go regularly, thanks for the tip
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I've always considered ticks as something to be aware of if I see one but the risk of Lymes and encephalitis seems very small still, certainly no larger than numerous other risks. I certainly don't religiously check my dog or myself after every trip outside. Should I?
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Where are you? The risk of Lyme seems pretty significant, lots of stories about. I would say learn to recognise high risk areas (bracken, long grass, woods, combinations of all 3, known bad areas) and avoid/ take precautions, and check after. I find the bites itch so I tend to pick them up pretty quickly but am getting better at avoiding getting bitten. but you can go a long way just avoiding high risk areas, which a lot of people do unwittingly anyway (stick to the main path etc).
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knew someone of a ex work friend who got lyme, and she was well fucked for long time, am not sure what happened with her, but know that she tried loads of treatments and nothing really worked,
after that I'd start religiously burn my clothes (wash), and jump to the shower / let my gf check for areas after a nice choss sessh.
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I've always considered ticks as something to be aware of if I see one but the risk of Lymes and encephalitis seems very small still, certainly no larger than numerous other risks. I certainly don't religiously check my dog or myself after every trip outside. Should I?
I don’t really check the dog anymore unless I notice one crawling on him. His tick treatment seems to kill them within 24 hours or so anyway so they fall off or i happen to find them and pull them out first.
I’m not really worried about them in the house for some reason but will check more in the van as he chills on out bed in the evenings. I’ve found loads in the bed over the last year.
Not sure how true this is but I've always been told that bigger ticks are more likely to carry lymes (having already picked it up from an animal) and more likely to regurgitate (thus giving you the lymes). I’ve always noticed big ticks on myself very quickly. The ones I’ve missed are always tiny but I’m therefore less worried about them (perhaps wrongly so).
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Know two good friends who's lives have been pretty fucked by lymes from tick bites. Exteneded periods in hospital, on going issues with fatigue years/decades later. So I take it pretty seriously.
Sister was out in the upper derwent, howden dam area a couple of weeks ago and was cursing herself for not thinkign and wearing shorts. Ended up with 3 ticks and nasty lymes-ey looking rashes. Had checked when she got back but must have missed them somehow. Was only the next morning (I think) when she felt the itching/soreness.
Luckly is pretty on the ball with it and was straight down the docs who were also on it, so pretty much straight on a heavy dose of the apposite anitbiotics.
Seems ok a week or so later, so fingers crossed.
So yeah, maybe I'm overly paranoid, but I check for them when ever I've been out in the peak these days.
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Yes, obviously Lyme is not a good disease and I don't want to get it. I was more going off the NHS advice page which says the chance of getting ill is low after a tick bite. Obviously there will be anecdotes of people getting it but surely the big picture is still that its pretty unlikely. Just seems an interesting disconnect between the (scary!) anecdotes here and the advice.
I'm in Lancashire. I don't make a habit of wading through bracken as its unpleasant. Guess I might check myself if I did. I don't think I've ever checked the dog thinking about it beyond giving him the flea and tick treatments!
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I need to be way more cautious. I've spent the last few months running around woods in head height bracken wearing shorts and little else. I even came face to face with a deer a few weeks ago. I haven't been checking myself afterwards but I've never seen a tick either. Perhaps the DEET which I apply to prevent mosquito / midge bites has helped, but this thread is a good reminder to check myself properly!
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Always good to check yourself after a day of chossing as sirlockoff mentioned. Good to check in the shower in certain areas too cause they can be sneaky.
Ideally under armpits, behind knees, in the groin. I’ve even heard a story of someone getting one on the end of their pecker! :o
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Stay on the path, STAY ON THE PATH!
I always take precautions, in higher risk areas, and do a once over check after, but tiny ones still attach sometimes, and you only notice like JB says when they start itching. If you do find one, no matter how small, remove it properly and keep the dead tick folded in bogroll in a small ziplock for a couple of weeks; if you have any reaction they can test it for diseases and confirm.
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I've always considered ticks as something to be aware of if I see one but the risk of Lymes and encephalitis seems very small still, certainly no larger than numerous other risks. I certainly don't religiously check my dog or myself after every trip outside. Should I?
In my humble opinion, YES!!! It's just not worth it. And dogs can get ill from them too.
I check myself regularly throughout the day whilst I'm out, and basically every time I go through any vegetated area and I'm brushing against any plants, which I do my best to avoid doing in the first place. In Austria recently I even stripped down to the nads immediately after walking through an area of long grass - as in, as soon as I was out of the field on a good path I put my pads down and stripped. Found 3 on me. 100% worth the potential embarrassment of someone coming along.
I'm maybe quite a way along the paranoid end of the spectrum but I just don't know why you'd risk it.
I'm also lucky my dog is white, so they show up pretty well and he's only ever had two bite him, out of several dozen maybe I've found crawling on him. The tick collar as I say does seem to work pretty well but certainly isn't bulletproof.
I’ve found loads in the bed over the last year.
That is without question the most horrific thing I've ever read on this forum. Thanks for the nightmares. How the hell do you sleep at night?!
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I’ve found loads in the bed over the last year.
That is without question the most horrific thing I've ever read on this forum. Thanks for the nightmares. How the hell do you sleep at night?!
:agree: :sick:
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Genuinely dumb question.. but why don't we wear tick collars, or bracelets or whatever.
(cant be arsed to google - :-[)
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Friend of mine got a tick and Lyme's from Froggat recently, got antibiotics and was recovering last I heard.
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I’ve found loads in the bed over the last year.
That is without question the most horrific thing I've ever read on this forum. Thanks for the nightmares. How the hell do you sleep at night?!
:agree: :sick:
Did James not mean the dogs bed.
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I’ve found loads in the bed over the last year.
That is without question the most horrific thing I've ever read on this forum. Thanks for the nightmares. How the hell do you sleep at night?!
:agree: :sick:
They were all in the van, non at home. I think we just got so used to them on our trip last year. In Val Daone we were taking 20+ off the dog each day (not all attached). Lots in the Frankenjura, Font, Scotland and the Lakes too.
There was no way we were stopping them so just got used to doing a really thorough check of the bed anywhere we found them on him. Would go over the bed inch by inch, inside and out, and then run the dyson over it as well.
I never had one until this year on Ilkley Moor (post trip) so i was still convinced i was one of those people who are just immune to getting them!
One thing i found with dog checks is that brushing was basically useless. After the first one we found in Font we would spend about 15 mins meticulously using a flea comb all over every bit of fur. We never once pulled one out with the comb,but would often find them walking over him as soon as we got in the van.
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I see where James is coming from. If there's that many you aren't going to stop them so I can see how you'd get used to it.
I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's point of view but I find it fully mental to even think about checking myself or the dog for ticks every time I pass through vegetation or brush against a plant, let along strip off every time I walk through long grass. Possibly I'm lucky in that I think I've only ever found a couple on me by chance, so maybe they don't like me, but I simply cannot be arsed to go to that level of effort.
I'm not trying to come across as pro tick but I can't see the above as anything other than paranoid! I'm sure it's very different if you're personally affected or know someone who got Lymes badly though.
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A work colleague's partner (fell/trail runner) got fucked by Lyme's. I'd guess that the NHS' view of the risk is written by and for townies who do things like the Three Peaks Challenge. Climbers and other outdoorsy people will be spending lots more time at risk.
I'll check when I get home if I think I've been at risk that day but I'm more into prevention than finding them later. I habitually wear trousers for walk ins (shorts in the bag if it's hot). If I've got to walk through bracken I'll tuck in my t-shirt in and my trousers into my socks and keep any exposed skin above it.
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I find it fully mental to even think about checking myself or the dog for ticks every time I pass through vegetation
Lucky you! Ten years ago I wouldn’t have either, but it’s fast becoming a necessity in places, doesn’t take too many grim experiences before you realise it takes two seconds to tuck socks in or brush your trousers off, far preferable to trying to dig their mouthparts out with a needle from your armpit.
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Yeah, it sounds bad in the peak based on the stories below. Thinking about it I've checked when I've been in Scotland before but never bothered in England. I probably do avoid walking through bracken as well so maybe I've just ended up not exposing myself by not climbing on as much esoterica. Food for thought anyway.
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I found 3 on me on the walk out from The Wave yesterday.
Spotted the first one crawling up my leg when I was half way down. I stopped at the bottom to check, and removed 2 more. Got them all before they bit.
I'm sure most people will wear trousers anyway because of the brambles & nettles. It's worth tucking your socks in too.
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Yeah, it sounds bad in the peak based on the stories below. Thinking about it I've checked when I've been in Scotland before but never bothered in England. I probably do avoid walking through bracken as well so maybe I've just ended up not exposing myself by not climbing on as much esoterica. Food for thought anyway.
I cant think of getting a tick (on me or the dog) on any of my standard walks around the Skipton area. I’m regularly bashing around on the Barden Moor bracken/heather.
Other than one on Ilkley, all of the others have been outside Yorkshire.
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I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's point of view but I find it fully mental to even think about checking myself or the dog for ticks every time I pass through vegetation or brush against a plant, let along strip off every time I walk through long grass. Possibly I'm lucky in that I think I've only ever found a couple on me by chance, so maybe they don't like me, but I simply cannot be arsed to go to that level of effort.
The stripping off incident was very much an exception, based on having walked through an extremely high risk area. And as I say, I found 3 on me. According to the Medical University of Vienna roughly a third of all ticks in Austria carry the bacteria that causes Lyme disease (source (https://www.meduniwien.ac.at/web/en/about-us/news/detailsite/2017/news-in-may-2017/nearly-every-other-tick-in-austria-is-infected-with-pathogens/) - that's as of 2017, and it's not getting any better), so odds are I'd have got it if I hadn't checked. So given that level of risk and with Lyme disease alone being a potentially life-changing disease (not to mention all the other things they carry), I vice versa find it fully mental anyone can be so blasé about them.
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I guess I think we're comparing apples with pears comparing your average UK area with what sounds like a tick hot-spot in Austria (may be wrong, can't be bothered to Google)? Agree it sounds like the paranoid style is the way to go in that context, maybe less so in most areas of England? But I take your point. Seems like a pretty big disconnect between the official advice and the stories on this thread which is interesting /concerning.
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Once, in the Sinai, we stopped to rest on a sandstone platform at the base of a rocky outcrop. The camels lay down in the sand some meters away. As we sipped our Bedouin tea we noticed a grey wave moving towards us over the rocks. An army of ticks had dropped from the camels and was making its way towards us. They moved thickly over the stone and we set about a bloody slaughter but were soon overwhelmed and had to retreat into the dunes.
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I guess I think we're comparing apples with pears comparing your average UK area with what sounds like a tick hot-spot in Austria (may be wrong, can't be bothered to Google)? Agree it sounds like the paranoid style is the way to go in that context, maybe less so in most areas of England?
Really? Lymes and ticks are present in the UK, in most regions, Scotland, Lakes, Snowdonia and now sadly the peak, not to mention other moorland areas such as Dartmoor, albeit some more than others.
And yet another anectode, but I was on Raven Crag in Thrilmere on a hot sunny day a few years ago. Its sadly somewhat overgrown these days and the single bit of tat on the abstation looked rotten as hell, so we opted for the overgrown descent path down the RHS. I had 8 ticks on me when I got back for a shower. I was wearing long trousers. Mate had 40! on him, he was in shorts and a vest top.
It was that experience that really put the willies up me.
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Really? Lymes and ticks are present in the UK, in most regions, Scotland, Lakes, Snowdonia and now sadly the peak, not to mention other moorland areas such as Dartmoor, albeit some more than others.
And yet another anectode, but I was on Raven Crag in Thrilmere on a hot sunny day a few years ago. Its sadly somewhat overgrown these days and the single bit of tat on the abstation looked rotten as hell, so we opted for the overgrown descent path down the RHS. I had 8 ticks on me when I got back for a shower. I was wearing long trousers. Mate had 40! on him, he was in shorts and a vest top.
It was that experience that really put the willies up me.
They clearly aren't comparable. The presence of ticks isn't the relevant thing, its surely the likelihood that the ticks are carrying Lyme?
Nick quotes research saying that 1 in 3 of ticks in that region of Austria carry Lyme; thats clearly very high. Thats 33% of ticks in the region. In the UK as a whole the figure is between 2.5% and 5% (https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2022/04/13/what-is-lyme-disease-and-why-do-we-need-to-be-tick-aware/). Thats an order of magnitude of difference. In more recent articles (from the Mail :sick:) the figure is quoted at no higher than 10%.
I'm not actually disagreeing with the idea that preventative measures are a good idea fwiw.
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Both sides of the caution/overreaction debate are fair here. Personally, on the basis I've been swimming through bracken all year in my shorts and never seen a tick, I'm not about to don the biohazard suit and keep a 20m radius between myself and all vegetation, but the anecdotes within this thread are convincing enough to remind me to take more precautions.
From my brief reading, treating a pair of trousers with permethrin for the walk in seems like an extremely easy way to reduce the odds of being bitten?
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They clearly aren't comparable. The presence of ticks isn't the relevant thing, its surely the likelihood that the ticks are carrying Lyme?
Fair point, but 1 in 25 or 1 in 3, knowing that people get royally screwed over by Lymes means I'm still going to take preventative measures, and still going to have a damn good thorough check when I get back in from anywhere where I might have been at risk.
I think we're all on the same page really, but it still amazes me that people seem so un-aware.
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I've seen the state of spidermonkey's harness. He's a man who loves to roll the dice.
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Its definitely a big change in tick population.
Having spent 30 years climbing and running all over the Peak had never met any ticks outside of the Lake District until last 2/3 years....since then have found many a tick on me/the missus or the dog. This year even worse.
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And yet another anectode, but I was on Raven Crag in Thrilmere on a hot sunny day a few years ago. Its sadly somewhat overgrown these days and the single bit of tat on the abstation looked rotten as hell, so we opted for the overgrown descent path down the RHS. I had 8 ticks on me when I got back for a shower. I was wearing long trousers. Mate had 40! on him, he was in shorts and a vest top.
Creag Dubh is the worst I have experienced. There are feral goats all around the crag, and we descended off the top of Tree Hee rather than the uncertainty of the abseil. I think i brushed 20 off my arms and trousers, and found a few on my leg hairs inside my trousers. If you have hairy legs it seems to give them something to grab onto, but takes them a while to crawl along hair to get to skin, so worth a quick check and a brush off, rather than having to remove.
Spraying with permethrin does apparently held, and sensible easy precautions like tucking into socks and a quick check if you have gone through an overgrown area does help. Also if any do attach, having a tick hook, specialist tweezers or card in your pack plus some antiseptic wipes helps. Do not use cotton buds, tweezers, vaseline or burning or any other method you might see on tik tok. As well as a small ziplock for keeping any you find attached in case testing is required. If you are especially paranoid you can post the dead tick to a lab for testing..
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It’s pretty obvious the change in climate patterns (climate change is real) is what has caused a sharp rise in not only ticks but other insects such as mosquitos and midges in the last 2/3 years. There’s talks of mosquitos in the UK now carrying rarer diseases such as Zika which until recently were mostly found in countries in the Southern Hemisphere.
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Tick Borne Encephalitis has now been found in the UK too.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/05/hikers-urged-to-check-themselves-for-ticks-after-deadly-virus-found-in-uk
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Climate change is shit, but could it not be the change in chemicals that farmers use to treat sheep and the increase in deer numbers? Correlation != Causation etc.
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It could. don't know if it is though. Allegedly there were a larger number of deer travelling up and down the Deeside Valley due to lockdown and less cars and walkers about, which has resulted in larger tick populations brought closer to Aberdeen City from the mountains. So you could blame COVID too if you wanted.
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Climate change is shit, but could it not be the change in chemicals that farmers use to treat sheep and the increase in deer numbers? Correlation != Causation etc.
Longer summers and rise in average temperature along with wet British weather is basically the Goldilocks zone for mosquitoes to thrive. There’s plenty of articles from renowned institutions talking about this https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/197333/disease-carrying-mosquitoes-could-common-europe-2030/
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Climate change is shit, but could it not be the change in chemicals that farmers use to treat sheep and the increase in deer numbers? Correlation != Causation etc.
I’ve always assumed it is all three. In the Peak areas there has been a big increase in deer numbers along with a significant decrease in sheep. On a positive note Pabbay used to be rife with ticks but now barely present due to a big reduction in sheep. Great benefits for the vegetation too.
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I returned from a kayaking expedition around Arisaig (NW Scotland) last weekend and have removed around 40 tiny (mite sized) ticks from my arms and legs!
At lest the ones I've found in the Peak so far are bigger and easy to spot.
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What a pain in the Arisaig.
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That area has always been bad, it was the first place I encountered them back in the nineties. Did you camp on the islands?
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I returned from a kayaking expedition around Arisaig (NW Scotland) last weekend and have removed around 40 tiny (mite sized) ticks from my arms and legs!
I saw loads of those tiny ticks recently at Torridon. Little Bastards!