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technical => music production => Topic started by: Monolith on November 06, 2019, 07:43:04 pm

Title: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Monolith on November 06, 2019, 07:43:04 pm
So I went and updated my Mac OS to Catalina last night. I've come to use Ableton Live and hooked my Digi Rack 002 (https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/digidesign-digi-002-rack) up. The drivers no longer work due to some 32 bit 64 bit bullshit I don't understand anything about.The drivers have been unsupported for a long time but I don't need support. Whisky fulfils that need.

Granted the interface is from the early noughties but it does the job nicely, was gifted to me and I don't want it to be rendered obsolete by some Mac fanboys.

Is there any technical nerdery I can engage in to get it working again? Ideally I don't want to revert back to High Sierra and nor do I want to run an emulator or anything like that.

Any help is warmly appreciated!
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: remus on November 06, 2019, 07:52:36 pm
I don't know much about the specifics of your hardware/drivers but the 32/64bit sounds ominous: Apple have stopped all support for 32 bits programs in catalina.

Probably the least technically challenging solution would be to go back to high sierra. Otherwise you're only bet is an emulator of some description. Sorry, not great news!
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Falling Down on November 07, 2019, 08:02:23 am
Hi mono- unfortunately you might just have to be patient and wait until someone writes a new driver (if that even works at all given the shift to 64 bit) or just revert back to Sierra.

 I tend not to upgrade my mac to a new OS for a while as it takes some time for the audio suppliers to catch up and Iíve been left unable to use my gear in the past.

Sorry I canít be of more help.

B
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: tomtom on November 07, 2019, 08:10:50 am
Iíve an old laptop in my office running Windows95 (remember that?) for getting data from one aging instrument... (scientific not musical...)
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Monolith on November 07, 2019, 11:01:02 am
Thanks all. After a few hours research, I've come to the conclusion that I'll need to revert back to Mojave. I only really updated to correct an Itunes issue which on balance, I don't care too much about.

This also got me thinking how despite Apple wish to be perceived as 'innovators' and 'disruptors', they've created a giant silicon scrapheap. Not exactly climate friendly.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: jwi on November 07, 2019, 11:11:25 am
Not exactly climate friendly.

Well, it is not as easy as that. If you want to keep backward compatibility with low bitrates you need to be willing to waste a lot of computer power = heat + cooling = lots of power generation.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: remus on November 07, 2019, 12:09:20 pm
Well, it is not as easy as that. If you want to keep backward compatibility with low bitrates you need to be willing to waste a lot of computer power = heat + cooling = lots of power generation.

Perhaps Im misunderstanding, but how does maintaining backwards compatibility generate significant overhead? Just thinking of some real world examples, windows is famously backwards compatible  (at an API level at least) but seems to be pretty competitive in performance terms which would suggest it's not spending loads of computing power on comparability.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Yossarian on November 07, 2019, 12:32:37 pm

This also got me thinking how despite Apple wish to be perceived as 'innovators' and 'disruptors', they've created a giant silicon scrapheap. Not exactly climate friendly.

I work nearly every day for a varying number of hours on a 2008 quad core Mac Pro running Lion. Itís not exactly a perfect arrangement (sticking things in Dropbox etc requires going through a browser now, and browsers in general are unreliable) but the main thing is CS6 Illustrator and InDesign still work fine.

Iíve been meaning to upgrade to a new iMac for about 5 years, but keep failing to get around to it. I have illustrated nearly five books since 2016 on this ancient system though.

I expect itíll expire with a puff of smoke later on this afternoon now Iíve written this...
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: jwi on November 07, 2019, 01:13:22 pm
Well, it is not as easy as that. If you want to keep backward compatibility with low bitrates you need to be willing to waste a lot of computer power = heat + cooling = lots of power generation.

Perhaps Im misunderstanding, but how does maintaining backwards compatibility generate significant overhead? Just thinking of some real world examples, windows is famously backwards compatible  (at an API level at least) but seems to be pretty competitive in performance terms which would suggest it's not spending loads of computing power on comparability.

On the contrary, microsoft's commitment to backward compatibility is what makes the PC laptops enormous with really bad battery life.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Will Hunt on November 07, 2019, 01:17:15 pm
Sorry to butt in here but I have a related problem.

I have a Macbook Pro. Can't remember what spec exactly but I could easily find out if it will help. It's not terribly new and not especially high spec. I want to be able to use Photoshop and some CS4 packages, but moreover, I just want to be able to use Word, open up photos, and generally navigate round in a reasonable way.

I made the foolish and naive mistake of upgrading to Mojave OS and it near enough bricked the laptop (tbf it wasn't incredible on whatever I was running before. Yosemite or El Cap I think) . If I want to do anything - even just open a browser - I have to start the laptop and let it do it's thinking for at least an hour before I've a hope of opening any application in less than minutes. I try and avoid turning the laptop off now.

Any advice on what I can do about this because it's really hindering my guidebook work. I could go back to an earlier OS but I'm not sure how I'd do that or if it's possible or whether it would sort out the problem. I could maybe install a solid state drive and hope that that improves things? Is that easy enough to do? I'm quite paranoid about losing data (I've got thousands of topo shots etc which have taken ages and ages to shoot and are basically irreplaceable). It's all backed up on a OneDrive account but still... With so much at stake the paranoia is strong!
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: jwi on November 07, 2019, 01:27:03 pm
That doesn't sound normal.

I suppose you have tried to reset the NVRAM (or PRAM is the laptop is really old)?

If that didn't work you might have a hardware problem, most likely on the hard drive. Check the health of the hard drive using the disk utility tool or possibly some other software, I am not totally a jour... You might be able to rescue your laptop by changing just the hard drive (get a solid state!)
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Johnny Brown on November 07, 2019, 01:29:26 pm
First, check your RAM is maxxed out if user-upgradeable.

I swapped the CD drive in my old Macbook Pro for a SSD, cloned the c/ drive on to it, then wiped the old drive and moved the docs onto it. It was much faster. But I also kept it on an old OS. Obsolescence is the worst thing about Macs. We have a couple of high spec 2012 imacs at work that would be fast as fuck if Mojave hadn't crippled the wake from sleep.

I also have an old PC running my scanners on Windows XP. Appreciate there have been performance gains but every time I use it I'm reminded that OS user experience has improved very little since. Plus it's a tiny install that is rock solid.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: remus on November 07, 2019, 01:30:50 pm
Well, it is not as easy as that. If you want to keep backward compatibility with low bitrates you need to be willing to waste a lot of computer power = heat + cooling = lots of power generation.

Perhaps Im misunderstanding, but how does maintaining backwards compatibility generate significant overhead? Just thinking of some real world examples, windows is famously backwards compatible  (at an API level at least) but seems to be pretty competitive in performance terms which would suggest it's not spending loads of computing power on comparability.

On the contrary, microsoft's commitment to backward compatibility is what makes the PC laptops enormous with really bad battery life.

Personally I don't agree. PC laptops are neither enormous nor have poor battery life (compared to macs).

https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/all-day-strong-longest-lasting-notebooks
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: teestub on November 07, 2019, 01:32:30 pm
Will, my partner had similar issues with hers and got a more knowledgable friend to instal a SSHD now it works great, no more spinning wheel action. You can always back up all photos etc onto an an external HD or two before any messing about.

If you have thousands of topi shots, Russian bots,  etc. is your hd quite full?
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: tomtom on November 07, 2019, 02:08:30 pm
If you have thousands of topi shots, Russian bots,  etc. is your hd quite full?

Filled with Albatross pictures..
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: dunnyg on November 07, 2019, 04:41:37 pm
And videos of him doing karaoke to his favorite tune
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bznxx12Ptl0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bznxx12Ptl0)
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: cheque on November 07, 2019, 06:31:06 pm
This also got me thinking how despite Apple wish to be perceived as 'innovators' and 'disruptors', they've created a giant silicon scrapheap. Not exactly climate friendly.

I think your frustration in this case is more appropriately directed at Avid for stopping development of drivers for their hardware.

Will... is your hd quite full?

 :agree: Sounds like thereís no space for paging files on your hard drive.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Will Hunt on November 07, 2019, 07:22:35 pm
I've got 150Gb left of a 500Gb drive. Is that the problem?

If I have to delete my collection of saucy albatross photos I'll be very disappointed.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: tomtom on November 07, 2019, 08:11:43 pm
If I have to delete my collection of saucy albatross photos I'll be very disappointed.

I heard it was quite a spread...
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: dunnyg on November 08, 2019, 12:09:51 pm
Spanning many "nice interests"
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: tomtom on November 08, 2019, 12:43:55 pm
Spanning many "nice interests"
Now youíre just fishing...
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Will Hunt on November 08, 2019, 04:41:06 pm
I've got 150Gb left of a 500Gb drive. Is that the problem?

Answers also welcome.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: tomtom on November 08, 2019, 05:04:14 pm
I've got 150Gb left of a 500Gb drive. Is that the problem?

Answers also welcome.

Get an SSD anyway Will - they're about £35 for that size now and generally speed up any computer that had a regular HHD before..
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: cheque on November 09, 2019, 07:59:03 pm
I've got 150Gb left of a 500Gb drive. Is that the problem?

Answers also welcome.

No, that should be fine. I had a look at mine (late 2012 iMac) and thatís a 1GB mechanical HD 300GB and Mojave runs fine considering itís an old machine.

How much RAM is in yours?

Have a look in System Preferences- Users and Groups- Logon Items. Thatíll tell you what starts automatically in the background. Sounds like it could be a bigger problem though.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Will Hunt on November 09, 2019, 08:13:51 pm
Ok, have done the reset RAM thing and cleared the startup programmes (there weren't many and none that seemed significant).

Spec here:
Macbook Pro 13 inch, mid 2012
2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
4GB 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM
Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536MB
150 GB free on HD

Just tested opening Excel and it took 1min. Takes about 10 seconds to open a 12MB photo in Preview.

I'll restart now and see if boot time is improved.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Will Hunt on November 09, 2019, 08:28:28 pm
Forgot to mention, it's Mojave 10.14.5.

From putting the password in to get the desktop background rendered: 2m 16s
Rendering desktop icons: +17s
From clicking the taskbar icon to load Chrome: 2m
Even then actually opening a web page then takes ages.

Doing anything at all until it's been on for a bit is a real trial. Opening Excel took about 1m 20s when freshly booted.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: UnkArl on November 10, 2019, 12:02:33 am
Sounds like time for a fresh install of the OS (switching to an SSD wouldnít hurt either)
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Johnny Brown on November 10, 2019, 08:47:54 am
4gb is fuck all nowadays. Check if you can double it, it's not expensive or difficult. However some you can't.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Will Hunt on November 18, 2019, 08:23:26 pm
Have put in 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD. The hardest thing about the whole process was getting the back off the machine. Two trips to the DIY shop to find the appropriate PH000 screwdriver bit. Then that started stripping the heads of two screws which meant I was scared of not being able to get the back off and being permanently stuck with a brick of a laptop and £200 worth of components! Managed to undo the stripped screws eventually.

Second hardest bit was cloning the existing drive - Disk Utility seems to fail when trying to do this now so had to use some 3rd party software.

But now I've just booted up and it took a fraction of the time. It's like a new machine. Everything just...works!

Phew. What a relief! Thanks for the advice, everyone.
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: cheque on November 18, 2019, 08:48:48 pm
 :2thumbsup:
Title: Re: Major Mac nerd help needed - interface issue
Post by: Johnny Brown on November 19, 2019, 10:14:08 am
Well done!
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