UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => get involved: access, environment, BMC => Topic started by: john horscroft on December 13, 2010, 01:08:43 pm
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There's a strong rumour doing the rounds that an outdoor pursuits company is seeking permission to hold occasional zip wire days in Burbage. The wire would run from Burb West to Burb North right across the valley. This is a commercial company.
So, I know what I think of this, but I'd be interested to hear what other people have to say. Legitimate use of a national park? Bad precedent? Harmless fun? Whaddaya think? :shrug:
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No, yes, no.
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NO, YES, NO
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If it wasn't you posting one would assume this was a troll, so ridiculous is the idea.
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I think rumours aren't worth the paper their written on.
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If it wasn't you posting one would assume this was a troll, so ridiculous is the idea.
:agree:
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It isn't a rumour......
Skyline Intro.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSl3KH3l-58#)
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I think rumours aren't worth the paper their written on.
Think it's already happening, or at the very least I've witnessed a trial run.
Pretty sure I saw one recently, I think (from some logbook searching) it was 6th oct (I'd have been there between ~2pm and ~5pm) although I could be wrong (can check with mates to confirm exactly when it was if that's important, only been to BN a couple of times this year). It stretched from Burbage West to somewhere below the path at Burbage North. Figured it had to be an instructional guided something-or-other session. I've never seen anything like it and I never expected it would be punters being zip-wired. It looked pretty weird but didn't ring enough alarm bells to find out for certain what was going on (and if the date's right I was having an afternoon off after a couple of weeks of 13+ hour days so was soloing grinning like a simpleton rather than up for being Mr. Outraged of Sheffield).
Another vote for no, yes, no from me.
Added now north_country_boys posted that, yeah that's even the same date I thought. FFS...
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I've been called a dwarf a few times, but never a troll...... ;)
OK, I was being coy, not sure how far I could go in spilling the beans. Now however.....
Thanks Sam and Chris for the votes of confidence and I kid you not, this is a serious proposal. In fact the company concerned has set the wire up a couple of times already (see above). They are now seeking permission from SCC, (landowners) to continue. For what it's worth, I think this is a terrible precedent to set. But that's just little old curmudgeonly me..... :wall:
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No, yes, no.
i agree with Andy
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No, yes, no.
i agree with Andy
me too.
what the fuck are they attaching it to? Famous Grouse and The Chant?
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no yes no. What do I think? It's a fucking stupid idea even if they do have a way of doing it which will leave no impact on the landscape, which I doubt. Hope it get as far as the one that was planned for the lakes.
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Now there is more solid information/evidence my response echoes others...
No, Yes, No.
It would seem the back-lash has begun as it looks like their web-site has been hacked already by SPAMMERS (http://www.adventuresareus.com/)
Couldn't find any applications from them at Planning Application Search (http://planning.sheffield.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/tdc_home.aspx) searching for the company name.
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No, Yes, No.
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what the fuck are they attaching it to? Famous Grouse and The Chant?
No clue. They were attached roughly half-way between the lower path and the valley floor at BN side but went all the way up to the edge at BW-end though, actually at a buttress iirc. Must take some serious anchors to keep however many metal cables under tension. Might go back and try and work it out (I don't know BW well)
Feeling really stupid for not investigating properly and asking wtf was going on when I had the chance, didn't occur to me to have a nosey for any reason other than sheer curiosity as to how they were doing it.
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You want wierd, I'll give you wierd.....the RSPB and the NT don't seem to have a problem with it...... :jaw:
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surely there are other areas that dont have climbing nearby that they can set this up? All I can see happening with this is loads of groups coming and having a go on the zip wire then "playing around" on the rocks and fucking it up for people who actually want to climb.
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surely there are other areas that dont have climbing nearby that they can set this up? All I can see happening with this is loads of groups coming and having a go on the zip wire then "playing around" on the rocks and fucking it up for people who actually want to climb.
:agree: Go-Ape are a perfect example of how these things should be done. No way should commercial firms be able to turn the Peak into a theme park. :thumbsdown:
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Is the proposal for a permanent zip-line (as Go-Ape's things are) then?
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Is the proposal for a permanent zip-line (as Go-Ape's things are) then?
Neigh lad, only as and when required - sorry if I gave the wrong impression....
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Just to add me two Penny's worth and probably get shot to bits.
What is the problem with it if its done without damaging anything. The increase of traffic and crowds to our beloved Burbage.
The development of climbing and bouldering ( guidebooks, walls, mats, outdoor activity centers etc.) brings more and more people out into the peak every year. This is probably the same for mountain bikers and walkers. Yet no one on here jumps up and down when rockfax, bmc etc brings out a new guidebook to the burbage valley, or the climbing works opens introducing a whole new bunch of people to our beloved sport, a vast number of which will eventually head out to this same valley at some point.
I think we have to be careful that we don't just disagree with things because we feel our activities are somehow better and more just.
As an aside i still think its a stupid idea as it would be logistically easier and probably more commercially viable to do it in the city, near the ski village for instance.
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Just to add me two Penny's worth and probably get shot to bits.
What is the problem with it if its done without damaging anything. I think we have to be careful that we don't just disagree with things because we feel our activities are somehow better and more just.
I had some similar thoughts, but I think, as you say, that it's just an inappropriate place to do it. Tis a toughy though if, as I do, you use burbage on a regular basis for both MBing and climbing..... :shrug:
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The difference I think is that this would be a commercial activity. If zip-wiring were an activity that became popular, and bunch of individuals turned up to rig them for themselves and friends, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Likewise if The Climbing Works started having come-and-try-it sessions for £10 a pop on a plywood boulder set up by the green track, I'd be dead against it.
You have to draw the line somewhere, and for me this fails on two principles: involves the building of a structure, and queueing paying punters. Both of these make are appropriate in a theme park, but not a National Park.
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That's a good distinction JB.
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what the fuck are they attaching it to? Famous Grouse and The Chant?
No clue. They were attached roughly half-way between the lower path and the valley floor at BN side but went all the way up to the edge at BW-end though, actually at a buttress iirc. Must take some serious anchors to keep however many metal cables under tension. Might go back and try and work it out (I don't know BW well)
It was a block just right of the Nose IIRC, nothing with any problems on but that's not the point is it...
no yes no to the orginal question
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Don't many companies, including "Adventures are Us" and The Foundry (http://www.greatadventures.co.uk/foundrymountain/foundry_adventure_centre/activities___shd) (to name a couple) already offer commercial climbing sessions at venues in the Peak District?
EDIT : Correcting poor grammar.
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The difference I think is that this would be a commercial activity.
For the record, I am against the zipwire idea. It just doesn't seem to fit into my idea of 'good things to do in the Burbage Valley'.
However, arguments against are going to be pretty tricky to formulate. Loads of paying customers already use Burbage - kids groups 'weaseling', commercial groups top-roping etc. And the damage idea is also tricky to sell as a non-climber would only have to look at the ground erosion around the boulders and along the paths, and even the chalk marks to mount an argument that would sound reasonable to someone at the council. I'm not sure what the best argument is though. Would this prevent access to areas of open access land, for example? Is there a risk to people using the paths along the stream?
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Johnny
Surely a correctly managed accountable commercial set up would be less damageing than random groups of "to the max" wanabees turning up every weekend.
Plus the increase of climbers visiting the area (especially relating to bouldering at burbage which was a pretty lonely activity even in the mid nineties) is down to the commercial activities of the climbing world. ditto MTB and rambling.
Whilst we all love Graeme, Percy and Sam i dont think they built the Works for altruistic reasons. Likewise guidebook publishers and gear manufacturers.
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Surely a correctly managed accountable commercial set up would be less damageing than random groups of "to the max" wanabees turning up every weekend.
No - a disasterous line of thought! How do you think non-climbers view us? Shouldn't we be managed for safety's sake?
However, arguments against are going to be pretty tricky to formulate. Loads of paying customers already use Burbage
I don't think its tricky at all. People pay to be guided around the natural environment - climbing, weaseling, biking whatever - no problem. Build something that does not exist naturally with the sole intention of attracting customers - problem. Not appropriate for a National Park, keep it to pub car parks.
Plus the increase of climbers visiting the area is down to the commercial activities of the climbing world.
Bouldering may have been a lonely activity in the nineties, climbing certainly wasn't. I don't believe overall numbers have changed at all. Although there may be the odd conflict, visitor numbers are not currently a problem at Burbage. This is partly self-regulated by the fact that most visitors are drawn to the site for a 'wilderness experience', and therefore naturally spread out and maintain fairly low densities. Again, a zip-line would be totally at odds with this.
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This whole zipline bullshit would be an utterly inappropriate use of a nation park and beauty spot. We have tottering worthless quarries for this kind of shit, haven't they ever heard of horseshoe?
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I don't usually comment on this kind of stuff 'cos I haven't been to Burbage in about 10 years. This is however a ridiculous idea. Burbage valley was one of my favourite places in the peak and the idea of building something in a national park seems ludicrous, surely there are plenty of placed to put a zip wire that aren't in a natural(ish) wilderness.
I agree that most commercial climbing groups are only using an existing resource and although this obviously causes problems, it isn't altering the landscape in the same way. Also bear in mind that these natural resources are not just for climbers, but also for walkers, picnickers, bird-spotters, mushroom pickers etc, why on earth would anyone want to encourage the noise/visual pollution that this will cause.
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No, Yes, No.
Looks gash, so hopefully they won't run it for long
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I don't think it's the commercial aspect that is the issue.
I think it's one of appropriate development. Part of the appeal for people visiting Burbage Valley (or indeed many of the crags in this country) for climbing, rambling, biking, running or whatever is the visual apeal and the tranquility. Ok you may have a few groups chatting loudly or the occasional shout, but that would be nothing compared to a bloody great cable being strung across the valley and the noise of the thing in operation plus large groups yelling it up and shouting. I think climbers or any other land users would agreee this would be intrusive and inappropriate to the area.
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Assuming it would be fixed in the position they were rigging it on a couple of days I was there then it would be a problem for everyone visiting BW. I had to duck under it on my way out one afternoon and while it would obviously have to be higher for it to be used is there the potential for the path to be closed while they are operating?
It was immediately right of the nose too so is there also the potential for large groups waiting around in that area?
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This whole zipline bullshit would be an utterly inappropriate use of a nation park and beauty spot. We have tottering worthless quarries for this kind of shit, haven't they ever heard of horseshoe?
Exactly. Zipline users aren't going to care that much about where it is, but we clearly do. It could be put in many of the uglier bits of the Peak that aren't being used for anything without upsetting anyone and actually make somewhere nicer.
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Great idea! Along with the Via Ferrata traverse along Stanage edge... no-one would mind that...
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When I saw the ropes stretched across the valley, I hoped that they were going to haul up some huge scenic back drop of the Grand Canyon or a massive green screen for making The Princess Bride II Rise of The ROUSs
No such luck
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no, yes, no
petition anyone?
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Definately another no, yes, no.
:off: Slackers, it's a slightly pedantic point but The Foundry doesn't offer instruction to anyone, anywhere. It is franchised out.
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Nothing wrong with pedantry. :-[
It demonstrated that national park resources are already used commercially (there is also Paragliding (http://d-f-c.co.uk/)).
But I too still find the idea of rigging something like a zip-wire across Burbage as and when its required to be objectionable for the many reasons already pointed out (but not because its a commercial activity).
Can anyone find the application thats been submitted to the Council, I couldn't find it searching Sheffield Councils Planning Applications (http://planning.sheffield.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/tdc_home.aspx). It might help clarify over the current speculation exactly what the application is for.
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Totally agree with Johnny, it's a National Park not a fun park and it should be treated with a little more respect.
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totally agree, how do we stop the shouting and swearing, and the ground erosion under the boulders, not to mention all the fag butts nx to established boulder problems, and get rid of all the unsightly white stuff? since obviously the main aim of a national park is to cater for climbers above all others
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You sharing that Devil's Avocado with franco?
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how do we stop the shouting and swearing, and the ground erosion under the boulders, not to mention all the fag butts nx to established boulder problems, and get rid of all the unsightly white stuff?
you trying to get me banned from burbage valley kes?
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good lord no, i find the idea of a zipwire absolutely preposterous, up there with mengeles retraining as a plastic surgeon. just always amuses/amazes me when climbers think climbers are respectful of everything else
plus jim seems to have a renewed vigour for burbage nth, whats that about?
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keen on a bit of snowballing is all.
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I don't think this is on. Simply because any structure of this size is too big to be installed in a National Park, even temporarily. It would have a disproportionately negative impact on all other user groups.
The visual pollution would be of a similar scale to the noise pollution if motorised vehicles were allowed down the Green track.
I don't have any problem with commercial groups or activities in the National Park - usually they're helping people get the most out of the outdoors (wtf is weaseling anyway???). But this is a dreadful idea and I'd think that if it was free.
Maybe somewhere else. Maybe.
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wtf is weaseling anyway???
Urban dictionary definition of weaseling (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weaseling), but in this instance it refers to crawling around, in and amongst rocks, holes and gaps in rocks.
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I had some similar thoughts, but I think, as you say, that it's just an inappropriate place to do it. Tis a toughy though if, as I do, you use burbage on a regular basis for both MBing and climbing..... :shrug:
John I was under the impression mountain biking is not allowed in the burbage valley...? :-\
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I had some similar thoughts, but I think, as you say, that it's just an inappropriate place to do it. Tis a toughy though if, as I do, you use burbage on a regular basis for both MBing and climbing..... :shrug:
John I was under the impression mountain biking is not allowed in the burbage valley...? :-\
:-[ I heard from one of the rangers that the Peak Park have decided to treat the green drive as a de facto bridleway. I've been riding it occasionally for about two years and I've had no problems. But then I am exceedingly nice to walkers.... :ang:
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Urban dictionary definition of weaseling (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weaseling), but in this instance it refers to crawling around, in and amongst rocks, holes and gaps in rocks.
Hmm. Sorry I still don't quite get it.
Any chance that you could google it for me?
Thanks.
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Hmm. Sorry I still don't quite get it.
It's like surface pseudo-caving in a boulder-field, basically kids getting mucky crawling through gaps and in holes without needing all the logistics of actually doing it in a cave.
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this is bollocks as if somone would be enough of an idiot to set upa zip line in burbage on a regualar basis for paying customers. i saw them setting up one of their trial runs (there was a bit of learning to be done) and just thought it was some twats being cuntish but now i see its a bunch of cunts being twats WTF.
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Urban dictionary definition of weaseling (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weaseling), but in this instance it refers to crawling around, in and amongst rocks, holes and gaps in rocks.
Hmm. Sorry I still don't quite get it.
Any chance that you could google it for me?
Thanks.
Sure (http://tinyurl.com/24l3tlb) (top four hits all have an explanation, some have pictures too). :-*
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Seems the outdoors is becoming a commodity, sell it and they will come.
Weasling, a highly popular and fun activity. Discuss.
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Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel
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How does mountain biking fit into burbage valley then ?
Since it's not allowed nor is horse riding, camping & to bivi !!! discuss
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Since it's not allowed nor is horse riding, camping & to bivi !!! discuss
Rather not discuss. Not really relevant?
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Since it's not allowed nor is horse riding, camping & to bivi !!! discuss
Rather not discuss. Not really relevant?
It kind of is as the discussion is essentially boils down to the question of what is fair usage of a national park and beauty spot by different user groups so as not to piss off others or ruin their enjoyment of a relatively limited resource. The specific example this time being zip-lines as opposed to say 4x4s driving where they're not allowed to or mountain biking/horse-riding/camping where you're not supposed to.
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How does mountain biking fit into burbage valley then ?
Since it's not allowed nor is horse riding, camping & to bivi !!! discuss
It doesn't, and neither does Horse riding or camping or biving. The only people who do these activities in the valley, are individuals doing so illegally. What has this got to do with a private company wanting to set up a profit making entity?
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How does mountain biking fit into burbage valley then ?
Since it's not allowed nor is horse riding, camping & to bivi !!! discuss
I refer the right honourable member to my previous answer.....
:-[ I heard from one of the rangers that the Peak Park have decided to treat the green drive as a de facto bridleway. I've been riding it occasionally for about two years and I've had no problems. But then I am exceedingly nice to walkers.... :ang:
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Well guys how is a zip line damaging the environment, if people using it are not touching the floor, were as boulderer's are consisently falling off and removing grass beneath the rocks/leaving white marks ? errmm.. you also said cables, they dont use cables its rope,and its not static set up, that's laughable :lol: its not that noisy ive heard them running at speed. sounds like you dont like the idea because its new, if company wants to operate it on occasions, safely with small quiet groups, a few times a year, isnt this better than all max head wannabees coming out with wrong kit and doing it dangerously.....surely.... ps, it sounds like you do not want anyone else to enjoy your valley to me..... its also interesting no one wants to talk about mountain biking...as every time im up there.. they tear arse past us as if they own the path... a few things for you to master-debate here..
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If you want a sensible respose, write in fucking sentences, not phrases.
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sounds like you dont like the idea because its new, if company wants to operate it on occasions, safely with small quiet groups, a few times a year, isnt this better than all max head wannabees coming out with wrong kit and doing it dangerously.....surely....
A company operating this setup a few times a year is surely just going to inspire the dangerous idiots to come and try it themselves.
Personally i think that it'll have a major visual and aural inpact on the valley. Supervised groups of climbers tend to be tucked away mostly out of site on the crags. I dont go out to a national park to watch idiots screaming their way accross the valley - which is what will happen. You only have to look at Go Ape to appreciate the associated noise.
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Well guys how is a zip line damaging the environment, if people using it are not touching the floor.
Surely it's about visual impact not true damage. Electricity pylons and wind turbines are rarely welcome additions to national parks for the same reason and both are surely rather more useful to the national economy than a zipline.
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So, with the honourable (?) exception of yorkshirelad's erudite contribution, I take it we're broadly not that keen on the idea?? :shrug:
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Well guys how is a zip line damaging the environment, if people using it are not touching the floor, were as boulderer's are consisently falling off and removing grass beneath the rocks/leaving white marks ? errmm.. you also said cables, they dont use cables its rope,and its not static set up, that's laughable :lol: its not that noisy ive heard them running at speed. sounds like you dont like the idea because its new, if company wants to operate it on occasions, safely with small quiet groups, a few times a year, isnt this better than all max head wannabees coming out with wrong kit and doing it dangerously.....surely.... ps, it sounds like you do not want anyone else to enjoy your valley to me..... its also interesting no one wants to talk about mountain biking...as every time im up there.. they tear arse past us as if they own the path... a few things for you to master-debate here..
Whilst I agree that MBing etc on footpaths is something in my opinion not to be condoned, you do sound like you work for said Zipline company :-\
P.S I am completely against the retarded idea of setting up ziplines of any description in the Peak or any national park for that matter.
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its also interesting no one wants to talk about mountain biking...as every time im up there.. they tear arse past us as if they own the path... a few things for you to master-debate here..
Oh, I'll address MBing, no problem. And your beef is what, exactly? That some MBers are twats? Well, no shit sherlock, what was your first clue. Just as some boulderers can't string two words together and some people who set up zip lines choose to do it in precisely the wrong place.......... :yawn:
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now you take that back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dense is getting better at english every day
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now you take that back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dense is getting better at english every day
Ooooohhhhh, alright.....I'm sorry....... :shrug: :whistle: :spank:
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Some posts back, Slackers asked for further details - well here they are -
15-20 zip lines a year within an eight month period that will avoid peak bird nesting times. Approx once every two weeks within that period.
16 - 24 participants.
Should you feel strongly enough about this to want to try and influence the decision, the man to approach is David Howarth -
david.howarth@sheffield.gov.uk
He's the Property Manager for SCC and a good egg......
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permanent line placement?
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I might have missed something in the earlier posts but surely any zip line would run over and potentially obstruct the footpath (/ honoury mtb bridleway). That can't be right?
Nice one for posting up the SCC Property Managers email John.
david.howarth@sheffield.gov.uk
bump ...
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I used the above address and was informed by a kindly email server that david.howarth@kier.co.uk is a more up to date address for him.
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permanent line placement?
No, only as and when required......
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I used the above address and was informed by a kindly email server that david.howarth@kier.co.uk is a more up to date address for him.
Thanks Sam, had an idea that might happen. Not sure what the craic is, but I'm assuming Kier have taken over property management for SCC.... :shrug:
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I might have missed something in the earlier posts but surely any zip line would run over and potentially obstruct the footpath (/ honoury mtb bridleway). That can't be right?
I think the video posted near the start of the thread (now removed from YouTube by owners, presumably Adventures Are Us Ltd.) showed it going from Burbage West and finishing below the path on the other side of the valley.
I used the above address and was informed by a kindly email server that david.howarth@kier.co.uk is a more up to date address for him.
Me too as I still can't find "Adventures Are Us Ltd." on the Planning Applicaiton site (http://planning.sheffield.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/tdc_home.aspx) so was trying to ask where I could read the full application. Six months is quite a long time and the application may have progressed further if no objections can be registered with Property Managers, any idea as to who is in charge during this period and might be more appropriate to contact? It would in theory be possible to use the Planning Applicaiton site if the application could be found! :wall:
I'm now out of the office until Tuesday 30th June. Additionally, with effect from 1st July, the corporate property and facilities management sevices will be delivered by Kier on behalf of Sheffield City Council.
Could you please therefore address all future correspondence to me at the following e-mail address david.howarth@kier.co.uk. My telephone number is 0114 2734543. If your enquiry is urgent while I'm away please phone 2734598 for further assistance.
On this occasion you need take no further action as this message has been auto-forwarded to my new account, however, I would appreciate it if you could update your records accordingly.
Kind regards,
David Howarth
Nice to see the Council starting to save money by further contracting out work!
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Does anyone know how they are attaching the zipline at either end?
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Does anyone know how they are attaching the zipline at either end?
Chewing gum & blu-tack.
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You have to draw the line somewhere, and for me this fails on two principles: involves the building of a structure,
and queueing paying punters.
It's a commercial installation with a potential high spike in traffic. Guiding's commercial, but you tend not to get dozens of clients concentrated in one area. I take the point about traffic created by our sport's popularity but I can't think of an equivalent intensity of use. I think installations of any sort in the National Park are out, excepting tents.
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In my limited experience and having had a few conversations Kier are a right bunch of see you next tuesdays.
In any event does anyone think that this is a vaible plan?
Personally I would be good money after bad that their insurance brokers will stop taking calls after the first few of them die of chronic breathing difficulties caused by laughing too much.
This is a dead parrot.
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This is a dead parrot.
..eee's snuffed it. He's run up the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibule. Bereft of life, 'e rest's in peace and if you 'adn't nailed 'im to the perch, 'e'd be pushin' up the daisies. This is an ex-parrot............
sorry - :guilty: - feel free to carry on................
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This is a dead parrot.
..eee's snuffed it. He's run up the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibule. Bereft of life, 'e rest's in peace and if you 'adn't nailed 'im to the perch, 'e'd be pushin' up the daisies. This is an ex-parrot............
sorry - :guilty: - feel free to carry on................
Thats Monty Python, not Carry On. ::)
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This is a dead parrot.
..eee's snuffed it. He's run up the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibule. Bereft of life, 'e rest's in peace and if you 'adn't nailed 'im to the perch, 'e'd be pushin' up the daisies. This is an ex-parrot............
sorry - :guilty: - feel free to carry on................
Thanks matron........
Thats Monty Python, not Carry On. ::)
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I might have missed something in the earlier posts but surely any zip line would run over and potentially obstruct the footpath (/ honoury mtb bridleway). That can't be right?
I think the video posted near the start of the thread (now removed from YouTube by owners, presumably Adventures Are Us Ltd.) showed it going from Burbage West and finishing below the path on the other side of the valley.
I used the above address and was informed by a kindly email server that david.howarth@kier.co.uk is a more up to date address for him.
Me too as I still can't find "Adventures Are Us Ltd." on the Planning Applicaiton site (http://planning.sheffield.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/tdc_home.aspx) so was trying to ask where I could read the full application. Six months is quite a long time and the application may have progressed further if no objections can be registered with Property Managers, any idea as to who is in charge during this period and might be more appropriate to contact? It would in theory be possible to use the Planning Applicaiton site if the application could be found! :wall:
I'm now out of the office until Tuesday 30th June. Additionally, with effect from 1st July, the corporate property and facilities management sevices will be delivered by Kier on behalf of Sheffield City Council.
Could you please therefore address all future correspondence to me at the following e-mail address david.howarth@kier.co.uk. My telephone number is 0114 2734543. If your enquiry is urgent while I'm away please phone 2734598 for further assistance.
On this occasion you need take no further action as this message has been auto-forwarded to my new account, however, I would appreciate it if you could update your records accordingly.
Kind regards,
David Howarth
Nice to see the Council starting to save money by further contracting out work!
There is a thread about this on cocktalk. Usual dickish comments, but one post that sounded reasonably sensible suggested it doesn't need a planning application as its temporary, just an 'activity license'? :shrug:
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Is there such a thing? Might it be known by a different name as a search for "activity license site:www.sheffield.gov.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22activity+license%22+site%3Awww.sheffield.gov.uk) returns no hits.
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Is there such a thing? Might it be known by a different name as a search for "activity license site:www.sheffield.gov.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22activity+license%22+site%3Awww.sheffield.gov.uk) returns no hits.
Well I did say I got it off cocktalk.... :whistle:
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Is there such a thing? Might it be known by a different name as a search for "activity license site:www.sheffield.gov.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22activity+license%22+site%3Awww.sheffield.gov.uk) returns no hits.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/aala/# (http://www.hse.gov.uk/aala/#)
( :google:)
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Is there such a thing? Might it be known by a different name as a search for "activity license site:www.sheffield.gov.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22activity+license%22+site%3Awww.sheffield.gov.uk) returns no hits.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/aala/# (http://www.hse.gov.uk/aala/#)
( :google:)
Good work, here is Adventures Are Us Ltd's License (http://www.aals.org.uk/aals/provider_detail.php?providerHeadingID=61). No mention of a zip-wire in there, although its not clear which of the four broad activities it would actually fall under.
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Good work, here is Adventures Are Us Ltd's License (http://www.aals.org.uk/aals/provider_detail.php?providerHeadingID=61). No mention of a zip-wire in there, although its not clear which of the four broad activities it would actually fall under.
There's just one more thing bothering me........
(http://bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/peter-falk-as-detective-columbo.jpg)
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:lol:
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Official Press Release to UK Bouldering & UK Climbing Forums.
Re: Burbage Valley Zip Line.
Hi everyone my name is Darren Thomas of Adventures Are Us Limited. Firstly I would like to apologise to everyone who has been upset or angered by the proposed zip line at Burbage North. There are very good reasons why we wish to run the zip line and we would run it responsibly and without damaging the environment. It would not be a regular event. It would not be a permanent set up and upon de-rigging you would find no evidence it was ever there. I respect and value all the comments( both good and bad ) which have been made. However I feel that you have been misdirected from the start by the originator. I respectfully request you to follow the link to our website for a full and accurate explanation. I am sorry it is so long but there has been a lot said which is simply untrue. Please read it and then make your mind up.
Darren Thomas & Committe Members.
Adventures Are Us Limited.
http://www.adventuresareus.com/burbage_zip.html (http://www.adventuresareus.com/burbage_zip.html)
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That is really impressive - there's only one minor typo in your press release and no horrible spelling mistakes.
Your explanations and descriptions sound very reasonable, especially the limits on use.
As I previously commented, I'm not opposed to this sort of thing on principle, but I still think that the Burbage Valley is not the place for this. Have you considered other locations?
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For my money I'm against it not because I don't think it will be well run or environmentally sound but because it sets a precedent.
I been to the Alps where anything goes and many things went. I've also rigged zip lines in a few places in the past but the people I rigged them for got it for free. Maybe if they were happy to re invest all profits into projects with the Peak Park I would feel differently but somehow I doubt it.
The 4 X4 off roaders and mountainbikers are now purpose building playgrounds for their activities and Go Ape stylee developments are springing up. Most of these are kept out of site of the many for the most part. This all seems better than spoiling the view in an area that is mainly about the view.
Anyone remember the proposed helicopter tourist flights over the Cuillins?
Or the proposed outdoor bouldering comp a good few years back?
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Official Press Release to UK Bouldering & UK Climbing Forums.
Re: Burbage Valley Zip Line.
Hi everyone my name is Darren Thomas of Adventures Are Us Limited. Firstly I would like to apologise to everyone who has been upset or angered by the proposed zip line at Burbage North. There are very good reasons why we wish to run the zip line and we would run it responsibly and without damaging the environment. It would not be a regular event. It would not be a permanent set up and upon de-rigging you would find no evidence it was ever there. I respect and value all the comments( both good and bad ) which have been made. However I feel that you have been misdirected from the start by the originator. I respectfully request you to follow the link to our website for a full and accurate explanation. I am sorry it is so long but there has been a lot said which is simply untrue. Please read it and then make your mind up.
Darren Thomas & Committe Members.
Adventures Are Us Limited.
http://www.adventuresareus.com/burbage_zip.html (http://www.adventuresareus.com/burbage_zip.html)
I've read this, and it is well written, but I am still completely against the idea of a Zipline in Burbage, there are many other areas including some quiet dales in the peaks that this could be done in causing less impact.
Also what is there to stop other companies 'getting in on the act' if this is allowed?
I'm not sure I liked the 'threats to sue' bits towards the end , bit nasty that
Could someone (John or Slackline maybe) post the names and addresses of any of the land owners/and appropriate agencies involved, which are referred to in the article. Thx
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Its good to see the thought that's clearly gone into this, and it being seemingly of noble intentions etc. But I still think that burbage is still an inappropriate venue for this kind of thing.
Also, remember that however much thought, consideration, and nobble intentions has gone into this, most of that groundwork is invisible to the causual observer who rolls up one day at burbage, sees some guys with a zipline setup and think "hey that looks rad, why don't I go and set one of them badboys up myself - ch-ching ££££". I.e. it sets an example that I'm not convinved is a good one for use of national parks.
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A well written and clear post from Adventures Are Us Ltd. thank you it clarifies things well (although a minor technical point is that these are forums and not blogs).
Could someone (John or Slackline maybe) post the names and addresses of any of the land owners/and appropriate agencies involved, which are referred to in the article. Thx
Its but a few searches/clicks away with :google:
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A well written and clear post from Adventures Are Us Ltd. thank you it clarifies things well (although a minor technical point is that these are forums and not blogs).
Could someone (John or Slackline maybe) post the names and addresses of any of the land owners/and appropriate agencies involved, which are referred to in the article. Thx
Its but a few searches/clicks away with :google:
Fair enough, I thought as you have already spent sometime looking into the application you may already have them.
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Darren, I've read your press release. I have nothing against zip-lines in the right place. Burbage Valley is not the right place. Please take your idea elsewhere.
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An eloquent press release however personally I still don't feel Burbage Valley is the place for this. I'm also heavily dubious of a few of the claims:
You can run a zip line, with two anchors and a tensioing system, plus people whizzing along it with less environmental impact than four boulderers? Do you care to qualify this (somehow)?
Secondly, you say that the anchors that have been chosen were selected as they don't get in the way of anything etc. That sits at odds to an earlier observation in this very thread (by Nai?). Again, could we have some fact, a photograph perhaps showing which anchor you intend to use?
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Fair enough, I thought as you have already spent sometime looking into the application you may already have them.
Sorry, I've already linked what I've searched/found.
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Let's think of the numbers.
How much are you prepared to pay for a 15 second zip wire ride? (Let's compare it to the standard stag day activities which are about £70 per head for two two hour sessions). £20?
Now let's imagine that they're going to have to pay to set up and remove the thing each day and have staff there at the top and bottom and running the harnesses and helmets from bottom to top.
Add in the cost of the stuff to build it.
Add in the cost of the insurance.
I'd imagine you'd need at least 100 punters per day to even break even.
Now who thinks that that is a reasonable prospect?
This just won't fly.
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Thanks for your statement Darren. I suppose I am undecided having read it. I agree that the goal to get disabled people out into the country side is a worthy one. I personally have no experience of how difficult this is with wheelchairs and paths etc but I can accept that it is challenging.
If the line is to be rigged purely from boulders etc with no permanent fixtures and only 10 times a year for only disabled people who cant do much else in the country side then in itself it isn't the zip line idea is not a bad one.
However I find it hard to believe there is no other spot in the peaks where you could run this, though I have no personal knowledge of where that place would be (of course, that would be too easy).
I also worry that it will indeed open a can of worms as to wider use of ziplines or what have you by commercial groups in the country side. I agree with Dave that "it sets an example that I'm not convinced is a good one for use of national parks."
I have not been down to the plantation in some time so have not witnessed the litter carnage you mention, but I am aware of similar impacts around eg the Surprise View carpark. I would be keen to get involved with a Lovers-of-Burbage-Valley-Clean-up-Weekend or what ever. I suggest a different title is used as the above sounds like a Doggers-Going-Heroin-FreeWeekend, which I'm not sure sets the right tone.
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Secondly, you say that the anchors that have been chosen were selected as they don't get in the way of anything etc. That sits at odds to an earlier observation in this very thread (by Nai?). Again, could we have some fact, a photograph perhaps showing which anchor you intend to use?
The post states that four test rigs were set-up, could have been one of the three that wasn't suitable that Nai(?) saw. :shrug:
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Now who thinks that that is a reasonable prospect?
Not everything is about money (although its key to most businesses continuation). Perhaps enough profit is turned from other activities to run this at a loss to enable disabled kids to give it a try. :shrug:
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When it comes to insurance it fucking is.
Personally I'd say the Slate & Nazi approach would be conservative.
No insurance no zip wire.
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As far as "reasonable adjustment" goes, I think the temporary zip wire/rope is a great way for disabled people to enjoy the Peak District. I can see that it could be cheaper and less damaging than building permanent tracks across moorland.
In terms of "bang for your environmental buck" I think this is a route worth exploring. I know that if I was unable to wear out the bouldering landings in the Burbage Valley then I'd accept an aerial rope ride as an equally life enhancing alternative.
A thousand pairs of feet trudging for miles across the moors and polishing up a few classic routes versus a few people gliding through the air, using a couple of otherwise unused boulders and a few meters of approach path. Worth thinking about. Certainly of similar benefit to society in my opinion.
Similar visual impact? Probably. Those paragliders and sightseeing helicopters have more of a visual impact than a zip rope thingy. I know the paragliders are quiet and look good, but I'd be just as happy (if not more so) seeing someone who can't walk or climb getting their thing on using a rope over the valley.
However, the moment that I think such a thing was being used to entertain people with money who can't be bothered to train their capable bodies and minds to the point where they can enjoy The Peak in ways that I consider acceptable then I will be chucking clogs in looms.
Hang on....
if any helicopters or 4x4s are brought down by clogs, it wasn't me
you didn't see anyyyything....
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causual observer who rolls up one day at burbage, sees some guys with a zipline setup and think "hey that looks rad, why don't I go and set one of them badboys up myself
Don't be daft. By that logic you'd get people with off-road vehicles just razzing about wherever they wanted just because they saw somebody else doing it.
Ahhhh, I see your point; if we can't stop those cvnts then we'll never stop the rogue zipwire buccaneers.
I'm sure someone will be along to say something about rules that are not enforceable should still be rules (or the opposite, depending on who shouts up)
Why am I still allowed to post stuff when I started drinking with Jasper at 15.00 and it is now 01.15 ? Shirley there is a rule against this?
Ha!
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They're seriously considering bringing an action for defamation? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Look the chances of that are even more remote that this fuck witted idea ever getting of the ground.
As for your views that the work of Kier 'improving' access goes, in my mind this merely indicate that you're a retarded :wank: with no idea of aesthetics, ethics or indeed very little else.
Playing the 'inclusion' card is the last resort of the moron with no meaningful argument just as patriotism is the last resot of the scoundrel.
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Playing the 'inclusion' card is the last resort of the moron with no meaningful argument
Ha!
So, Lord Sloper; you have revealed yourself to be prejudiced against stupid people who can provide no rationale to their wrong opinions.
If people like you had their way then there would be no Reality TV Industry at all - then where would we be, eh?
Anyway, you're quite right. Nobody should have to resort to the "inclusion card". It is always be possible to explain such things in terms of ethics, aesthetics and logic. However, this takes time and effort from both sides and it is just a better use of everyone's time to refer to the already worked through principle of "inclusion".
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Yes I am prejudiced against morons who spout shite :guilty:.
The inclusion argument is just one that induces near apoplexy in me, whether it's 4x4 :wank:'s using it to defend their destruction of the environment or twats saying that they've every right to top rope the fuck out of bold routes which are routinely climbed properly by total punters.
Basically the 'inclusion' argument is founded on the devaluation of the thing that people are seeking to experience to the degree to which makes the whole exercise not only jejune for the person who is included by also devalues the experience for those that have made the effort to experience it in all it's glory.
If the 'inclusionists' had their way the Paralympic marathond would be 50m with a stair lift.
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Let's think of the numbers.
How much are you prepared to pay for a 15 second zip wire ride? (Let's compare it to the standard stag day activities which are about £70 per head for two two hour sessions). £20?
Now let's imagine that they're going to have to pay to set up and remove the thing each day and have staff there at the top and bottom and running the harnesses and helmets from bottom to top.
Add in the cost of the stuff to build it.
Add in the cost of the insurance.
I'd imagine you'd need at least 100 punters per day to even break even.
Now who thinks that that is a reasonable prospect?
This just won't fly.
There's one of these temporary zipwire thingies been floating around the north east of late, and it isnt aimed at the stag do market; is been used mainly for sponsored / fund raising type events. I.e. "get some adrenaline for free, min sponsorship £100" type jobbies. They did one at Alnwick castle and one over the River Tyne, amongst other places.
I've no objection at all to this type of thing in these locations (man made, no impact, only there for a weekend, but in a national park? No ta. I don't use Burbage, but I can translate the look to many places I do use, and my vote goes for somewhere else, as per many previous posters. The phrase "thin end of wedge" springs to mind.
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wouldnt mind it at the top of kyloe in to the car park, fuck the walk out!
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Ooh or a toboggan run...
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long time lurker, but this caused me to be a first time poster....
I reckon david lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company are involved in this application somehow, to make a well rad film about someone fuelled by over-caffeinated sugary drink company and/or pepsi max taking it to the edge,
Or perhaps callum also wants easier access to obvious dry tooling venues in the peak, as dry toolin is well rad at the moment too yeah?
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Just a little note to adventures are us to say...
Have read your "blog" and does nothing to change my mind. There is simply no need to use burbage valley as a site for a zip wire.
By all means improve paths and allow some access for the disabled, but neither they nor anyone else need a zip wire in a national park.
A national park is a natural environment. A zip wire is a fake adrenalin high in an environment of simulated danger, is not a true adventure and has nothing to do with nature or beauty.
I also find your tone concerning threats of libel to be infantile and repulsive. This country has oppressive libel laws which need to be reformed. Nice to know you're on the side of the oppressor. I'm ashamed to know you work in the outdoor environment. You obviously learn little from it.
Sam
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Couldn't have put it better myself.
I was relatively open minded about the proposals until I read the so called press release and other material. Playing the 'access for all' card to justify a zip wire is beyond cynical and threats of litigation are just downright unpleasant.
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long time lurker, but this caused me to be a first time poster....
According to the records you posted twice on August 23rd 2006 (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1505), but that was quite some time ago.
I reckon david lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company are involved in this application somehow, to make a well rad film about someone fuelled by over-caffeinated sugary drink company and/or pepsi max taking it to the edge,
Lama visited last year as part of the Mammut team and made a rad video (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,4660.msg292583.html#msg292583) (no bolts were placed as far as I'm aware).
Or perhaps callum also wants easier access to obvious dry tooling venues in the peak, as dry toolin is well rad at the moment too yeah?
Thats just stupid and as with the Lama/over-caffeinated sugary drink company comments contributes nothing other than demonstrating that you too don't think the zipwire is appropriate, which would have been far easier to say.
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Hi everyone my name is Darren Thomas of Adventures Are Us Limited.
Darren, just out of curiosity, are you the same Darren Thomas who claimed several very hard first ascents in the valley in the early nineties?
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Tis indeed.
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A national park is a natural environment. A zip wire is a fake adrenalin high in an environment of simulated danger, is not a true adventure and has nothing to do with nature or beauty.
I also find your tone concerning threats of libel to be infantile and repulsive. This country has oppressive libel laws which need to be reformed. Nice to know you're on the side of the oppressor. I'm ashamed to know you work in the outdoor environment. You obviously learn little from it.
Sam
Nicely put Sam.
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Will the punters be gagged ?
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once theyve zipped these disabled punters down into the valley bottom, how do they plan to get them out? Rough as owt down there.
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Apologies, I come in peace.... didnt realised I had posted before.
The lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company reference was to the patagonia debacle where they went to make a film and drilled alot of shiny new bolts and a general mess as well which they got rightly condemmed for. But also wasnt there a furor about the mammut teams visit and the mess they left too? or was that the year before, I cant remember.
I suppose the previous post was a very poorly made attempt at the point that the idea of these things is often alot different from the reality in terms of local impact, and/or as others have stated, the thin end of the wedge.
The callum point was my (now) obviously poor attempt at ironic humour at what is to me quite obviously a barmy idea.
I was quite surprised at the adventure unlimited chap's reaction to the responses here though, surely he knew it would create a shitstorm?
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Apologies, I come in peace.... didnt realised I had posted before.
No offence intended. Posting history is linked in the profile pages.
The lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company reference was to the patagonia debacle where they went to make a film and drilled alot of shiny new bolts and a general mess as well which they got rightly condemmed for.
Yes I clocked that hence the comment about not having left bolts. ;)
But also wasnt there a furor about the mammut teams visit and the mess they left too? or was that the year before, I cant remember.
No idea, don't remember hearing anything.
Please don't let my pedantry put you off from participating in the site.
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once theyve zipped these disabled punters down into the valley bottom, how do they plan to get them out? Rough as owt down there.
A massive catapualt. They'll catch them in a big net and lower them and their wheelchairs back down to a jolly afternoon tea with crumpets and honey.
Personally I think that this is a crap idea as the clay pidgeon shooting chavs may think they're on the ultiamte Daily Mail fantasy day out and start blasting the disabled out of the sky.
Maybe white water rafting down the stream?
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once theyve zipped these disabled punters down into the valley bottom, how do they plan to get them out? Rough as owt down there.
Their mates will haul them back up hand over hand using a second rope - have you seen the guns on some of those guys in wheelchairs :bow:
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Big-gunned wheelchair user in post-zipwire steam letting shocker.
(http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Scary/wheelchair-machine-gun.jpg)
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how to make ukb look acceptable to the disabled
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LIKE THIS
:read:
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how to make ukb look acceptable to the disabled
Don't you mean "them people"?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_e5CENKp5eYU/R4WBxtQ9u4I/AAAAAAAAAe8/F8-Anj8JXxo/s320/hod.jpg)
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Hate to be contrary and all, but this seems faily genuine to me (specifically targetted at disabled use... they use ziplines elsewhere for the more able bodied). As climbers we would be crazy to claim exclusivity to areas of our national parks and as a rope constructed temproary system for occasional use and specifically avoiding paths, problems and routes and not used during ground bird breeding season, I really don't see what the major problem is (even though I agree there may be better less controvercial places to site it).
I also don't see anything wrong with a company talking about libellous statements if it's linked to posters suggest they "do not know what we are doing and are going to kill somebody" (I couldn't find these posts though).
The plantation rubbish point they make is a serious issue and is not the only place in the peak where people go and party without packing out their crap.
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At the Peak BMC area meet last night it was disclosed that the application for Burbage Zip Wire had been declined and that objections from the climbing community had a significant influence in this decision.
:thumbsup:
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Fucking 'A' :bounce:
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...what snoops said, whatever it means! :thumbsup:
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...what snoops said, whatever it means! :thumbsup:
The Big Lebowski - The Fucking Short Version *featured* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU2ZgaQ_H-Y#)
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it was disclosed that the application for Burbage Zip Wire had been declined
I thought it was 'is likely to be declined'?
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it was disclosed that the application for Burbage Zip Wire had been declined
I thought it was 'is likely to be declined'?
One of us misheard then. Hope it was you.
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you both misheard...
it was 'is very likely to be declined'
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I heard likely as well.
Thanks for the fab UKB turnout btw... make one proper proud.
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its definately not been declined as i spoke to the person today who is wanting to operate it ;)
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Likely to be declined is what was said at the meeting.