UKBouldering.com

the shizzle => shootin' the shit => Topic started by: user deactivated on June 21, 2017, 06:23:32 pm

Title: Jump cuts
Post by: user deactivated on June 21, 2017, 06:23:32 pm: Jump cuts! Having used them and not and back again I just wondered what people thought about these. Disorientating and irritating visual cliche of the bouldering vid genre or good way to help a video get to the point? The book 'in the blink of an eye' likens them to waiting until bees go looking for honey then moving their hive half a mile away, messing with their bee heads. So maybe if that's the intention to disorientate then why not. Or even used as a sort of visual metaphor for some sort of mental or physical aberration. But otherwise can't see why to use em?
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: cheque on June 21, 2017, 08:53:18 pm: I've used them intentionally once I think, to emphasise that something has been happening over and over again.

I do everything I can to avoid them otherwise. I want people to relax and get drawn into what I make, not get continually jerked about. Also, in climbing films are usually just a sign that whoever shot the film hasn't planned how they want it to turn out so had no other option at the edit. I really don't want my films to look like that- I kind of work from the principle that if I miss out everything I don't like in other peoples films then what I leave in must be the good bits.

Obviously you're coming at filmmaking from a way less prosaic angle than me though!
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: user deactivated on June 21, 2017, 09:08:07 pm: Yeah the repetition thing is definitely one use that makes sense, I was thinking about using them as a stylistic tool like over saturation or crushing the shadows or use of slow mo. In a way it would be interesting to see a bit more experimentation in climbing vids. Putting these popular stylistic choices to one side for a moment. It's like we all learnt how to paint a picture in the same way and then reproduce that with varying degrees of success and exposure. Vimeo staff picks often feels like a great example of this formula. It would be great to see some different stuff being made.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: andy_e on June 22, 2017, 08:01:10 am: What's meant by jump cuts exactly?
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: cheque on June 22, 2017, 08:58:05 am: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jump_cut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jump_cut)

ie. in bouldering videos is when you shoot a problem from a static tripod and need to cut it down but have no other angle to cover the join, ie. 1:56, 1:59 & 2:00 on here (https://vimeo.com/222483027)

Apologies to the guy who made the video, I just picked the most recent clip on the non-quality thread and clicked to a random point.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: dave on June 22, 2017, 09:01:17 am: I don't mind em on say the easy topout bits on problems after the main meat, where you just want to show the ground being quickly covered but the actual moves aren't important. The ones in the clip above however are just really jarring.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: user deactivated on June 22, 2017, 09:02:31 am: Or here in a video I made a while ago

Watch this video on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/146514919. Don’t have the Vimeo app? Get it from the App Store: http://bit.ly/vimeo_ios
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: user deactivated on June 22, 2017, 09:03:29 am: Of the jarring variety
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: andy_e on June 22, 2017, 09:04:37 am: Thought so. I use them all the time, which is worrying, as I never realised they were so hated! I use them to keep a bit of energy going where otherwise a move in its entirety may be much slower or boring (i.e. easy top moves). I've got a minute-long edit which I've nearly finished which is almost entirely jump-cutting!

I guess it depends what you're going for, If you're after a bit of energy and movement they can be useful but if you're going for more of a chilled vibe I'd probably just go for either cutting it entirely or speeding it up. I guess it's difficult for me to think of an alternative to the effect I'm after at the moment!

I'm not entirely sure they're all that jarring if you've got a point of reference that you can constantly focus on between shots, e.g. left hand on a crimp or something like that.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: lagerstarfish on June 22, 2017, 09:21:12 am: for me, jump cuts are nicer when the camera is static - jumps between hand held shots are dramatic, but can be overly so; and can induce a kind of disorientation that makes me want to stop watching

*disclaimer
I know nothing about creativity
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: Serpico on June 22, 2017, 10:18:36 am: With modern bouldering videos I can no longer tell whether my broadband is buffering or it's just 'edgey' editing.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: Will Hunt on June 22, 2017, 10:32:44 am: Interesting jump cut hate. I thought they were an essential part of not showing the boring top-out bits. If you're watching a viddy of someone bouldering it would be daft to show them doing the hard bit but to not show them topping out. There's nothing more boring after somebody's just done an 8B than watch them fidgeting around trying to find the holds on the 5a top out.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: user deactivated on June 22, 2017, 10:36:53 am: Quote from: lagerstarfish on June 22, 2017, 09:21:12 am

*disclaimer
I know nothing about creativity

I was listening to a radio 3 podcast (arts and ideas) recently where the guest claimed that we're all born creative, we just have it drummed out of us by educational policy and a society that has a fear of getting things wrong. I really liked some of you're bouldering vids, particularly the burbage* one with elevator music, that was great!
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: galpinos on June 22, 2017, 01:53:46 pm: Personally, they often break the flow of bouldering/climbing footage (and it's great when the feeling of the "flow" comes across so this is a big negative) and seems like lazy editing. They are "fine" for the easy top out but don't add anything.

However, they can be very useful in unsettling the viewer, like you said so if you're more a David Lynch man than a "churn out a slick generic bouldering vid" man then they can be put to good use.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: andy_e on June 22, 2017, 02:04:53 pm: Depends how you define flow I guess and whether you're after some sort of fast paced, skate footage-style turbulent flow or more of a chilled out laminar flow. I think the choice of music helps define this flow so if jump cuts are in keeping with the music and overall vibe then I don't think they're at all incipient, or even necessarily Lynchesque psychedelic edit tricks.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: lagerstarfish on June 22, 2017, 11:11:40 pm: Quote from: Dan Cheetham on June 22, 2017, 10:36:53 am
Quote from: lagerstarfish on June 22, 2017, 09:21:12 am
*disclaimer
I know nothing about creativity

I really liked some of you're bouldering vids, particularly the burbage* one with elevator music, that was great!

this one
NSFW :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhVad4fdyO4
with the faux tilt shift effect

all filmed in 4:3 SD with nothing harder than 5+

I "made" the music using Sony Cinescore, I think

in retrospect, that was creative in a lite way

no jump cuts, mind

edit - my biggest earner at $2.09
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: user deactivated on June 22, 2017, 11:33:42 pm: Holy shit! I'd not seen that one. It's like the climbing version of watching Total Fishing re runs on Quest. Loved the zoom at the end. Amazing.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: lagerstarfish on June 22, 2017, 11:38:06 pm: Quote from: Dan Cheetham on June 22, 2017, 11:33:42 pm
like ... Total Fishing re runs on Quest

YYFY!
:dance1:
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: miso soup on June 23, 2017, 12:22:49 am: Quote from: andy_e on June 22, 2017, 09:04:37 am
for more of a chilled vibe I'd probably just go for either cutting it entirely or speeding it up.

I find speeded up footage more annoying than jump cuts, personally.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: cowboyhat on June 26, 2017, 04:22:45 pm: Interesting thread.

So Walter says no then? OF course Jean Luc says YES!

Working in telly there is no way I could get away with it, without it being some sort of attention grabbing artistic statement. You'd have to know exactly what you're doing, like Jean Luc.

https://vimeo.com/222483027 (https://vimeo.com/222483027)

This video is fucking dreadful.

Your video at the Roaches though Dan comes over quite charming and it works.

I am guilty myself of course, here at 1.35:https://vimeo.com/85915805 (https://vimeo.com/85915805)

Further reading; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFdsIRx2gm4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFdsIRx2gm4)

From this it turns out Walter is ok with it as long as its justifiable in certain circumstances etc. Like if he were Jean Luc trying smash the old Hollywood or something.

Proceed with caution.
Title: Re: Jump cuts
Post by: user deactivated on June 26, 2017, 10:00:35 pm: I like Walter Mirisch's idea of cuts giving continuity when they're resembling images in dreams. Extending that idea further into daydreams, memories or visual imagery from an experience (like climbing) and presenting that in a video could be quite cool. So the film is more like a recollection of an experience rather than documenting a send. If jump cuts fit in well with a memory of that. One of my favourite bits of editing recently was the harrowing edit of the battle scene in GOT where John Snow is being suffocated by dead bodies which seemed to use jump cut like editing to capture the trauma. You can imagine his dreams of it being like that. (I know nothing much about film or tv do this could sound like pretentious shite) the edit I mean starts about 3mins in:

https://youtu.be/kjKHuTK9U3A

Good skills holding that swing Btw!