UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: Kingy on August 20, 2019, 06:12:31 pm
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Anybody know why this route got upgraded from Moon's original 8c grade?
I'm interested as Pete who repeated this the other day said he found it easier than All Out at Kilnsey, it certainly took less time to do. I know the routes are different styles but still, if its harder, surely either All Out should be upgraded to 8c+ or Sea downgraded back to 8c?
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I was going to ask the same question but didnt want to get shot down as a grumpy old timer. This and Liquid seem to have got upgraded despite no one doing them, changing history in the case of the later.
It would be great to here Petes opinion on this, evo, hubble, rainshadow etc. now hes done them all in a short time frame. Bens the only other to have done so but with a 30 year gap so hard to reference.
Once Brexit is sorted i am hoping that these things all get put back to there proper grades. Other than being able to buy potatoes in lbs rather than kgs Its the only reason people voted for it.
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I have the info. Pete did it with the alternative left hand crimp sequence (first person to do it this way). I belayed Mcclure on it once and he discovered these crimps a metre or so left of the original Moony slopers. Caff tried like this but never managed. Pete Robins repeated it with Moons original sloper sequence and gets quite irate about the other method which is a very different thing to the left (he says it should be called Cop Out of Tranqulity ;D. The left line is fair game but maybe it’s back to 8c. As for Liquid that’s obscene however you do it and definitely not two grades easier than Big Bang.
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Interesting, good to hear the backstory. Routes change and new sequences are found, all part of the game
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Which way did Dawson the Stronger do it??
Amazing form Pete is on at the mo. His bro Luke is a mutant and always says Pete is way stronger than him so I can’t even imagine how strong that actually is!
Looking forward to seeing what’s next for him!
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Interesting, good to hear the backstory. Routes change and new sequences are found, all part of the game
Ye nought wrong with the crimp way really, just easier.
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As for Liquid that’s obscene however you do it and definitely not two grades easier than Big Bang.
Are you suggesting it gets down graded!!!!
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Which way did Dawson the Stronger do it??
The crimp way
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As for Liquid that’s obscene however you do it and definitely not two grades easier than Big Bang.
Are you suggesting it gets down graded!!!!
Downgrade Big Bang ye why not . Caff did It twice :lol: If Liquid is 8c there’s a fair few 8cs in the country that need to go to 8b+.
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Be interesting to see what’s Pete D makes of LA when he tries it . Jordan’s been trying it on and off this summer .
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Amazing form Pete is on at the mo. His bro Luke is a mutant and always says Pete is way stronger than him so I can’t even imagine how strong that actually is!
What's impressed me whenever I've seen Pete D (aside from obvious mutant strength), is how well he can climb in absolutely terrible conditions. Air like warm soup? No problem! If anything, it just seems to make him angry and he refuses to let it affect him - hot fury burning off the gop.
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Dismaying
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As for Liquid that’s obscene however you do it and definitely not two grades easier than Big Bang.
Are you suggesting it gets down graded!!!!
Downgrade Big Bang ye why not . Caff did It twice :lol:
There was a rumour that Caff said with the new sequence (whatever it is) on Big Bang that it might be 8c+ now
What do you know?
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I have the info. Pete did it with the alternative left hand crimp sequence (first person to do it this way). I belayed Mcclure on it once and he discovered these crimps a metre or so left of the original Moony slopers. Caff tried like this but never managed. Pete Robins repeated it with Moons original sloper sequence and gets quite irate about the other method which is a very different thing to the left (he says it should be called Cop Out of Tranqulity ;D. The left line is fair game but maybe it’s back to 8c. As for Liquid that’s obscene however you do it and definitely not two grades easier than Big Bang.
I always think its interesting when this happens; did Moon have the blinkers on to such an extent that he couldn't see these crimps or did he actively decide not to use them? UKC have not got the knowledge here as their report is banging on about this dreadful slopers which it seems Pete didn't use!
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There was a rumour that Caff said with the new sequence (whatever it is) on Big Bang that it might be 8c+ now
Surely we can't be downgrading that as well with Twyford so close, it was harsh enough when it happened with Unjustified after she did it...
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did Moon have the blinkers on to such an extent that he couldn't see these crimps or did he actively decide not to use them?
The former I suspect
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All these downgradings are going to have knock-on effects on everything else. Bat Route is now 8b+ and the Oak is hard 7c+.
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Since when has the oak been anything higher than 7c+?
😃
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As for Liquid that’s obscene however you do it and definitely not two grades easier than Big Bang.
Are you suggesting it gets down graded!!!!
Downgrade Big Bang ye why not . Caff did It twice :lol:
There was a rumour that Caff said with the new sequence (whatever it is) on Big Bang that it might be 8c+ now
What do you know?
It’s not a new sequence, it’s how Carson did it. Caff says he did something magic with his thumbs though. Just those pics of Moony on it from years ago (when he said the crux was 7C+) were with a duff sequence . Pete D has tried Big Bang, think he said it felt tricky. Very specific style. For Caff (and definitely Emma) it’s gonna be easier than Liquid as it’s all fingers and the crux is less steep (more their bag). You have to be light for it as it’s so sharp. Doubt a fat cunt will ever get up it (hence why Robins hasn’t done :lol:).
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did Moon have the blinkers on to such an extent that he couldn't see these crimps or did he actively decide not to use them?
The former I suspect
Climbs completely differently, almost two different lines but they’re so close it’s the same route. Think the last few tricky moves are common to both. Sea Of into Megalopa headwall anyone ? Might even be a direct finish to do to it rather than finishing in the crack on the right, budge it back to 8c+.
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I'm interested as Pete who repeated this the other day said he found it easier than All Out at Kilnsey
...because the grade is clearly wrong. I'm all for putting a stop to runaway grades but basing it upon a benchmark of All Out :???:
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I'm interested as Pete who repeated this the other day said he found it easier than All Out at Kilnsey
...because the grade is clearly wrong. I'm all for putting a stop to runaway grades but basing it upon a benchmark of All Out :???:
I've not got round to editing Kilnsey yet and I'm struggling to think off the top of my head whether it was indeed All Out which people had been petitioning about, but I'm sure that it's going up to 8c.
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All out has been 8c since the late 90s when a large undercut came off the crux
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All out has been 8c since the late 90s when a large undercut came off the crux
But not according to the YMC (2005) or Rockfax (2015).
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All out has been 8c since the late 90s when a large undercut came off the crux
But not according to the YMC (2005) or Rockfax (2015).
They are wrong
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Fear not, Wired Guides (2020) will put this historic injustice right.
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Fear not, Wired Guides (2020) will put this historic injustice right.
Good good, bout time! :lol:
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Didn't mutterings about upgrading SoT and LA start when Ben repeated Super Plafond and the Bronx (both 8c+) in France and said that they were both about the same grade as SOT/LA?
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Yes that's right if memory serves. It was in a 1995 edition of OTE which I think has already been scanned onto a thread somewhere if memory serves. In it, Jibe Tribout counters Ben's argument of UK 8c's/c+'s being nails by suggesting that Hubble would have already had 8 repeats already if it was transported to Orgon! ::)
I think history has proved Ben right to a large extent with Hubble being upgraded (see comments in the latest 8a.nu piece)
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Didn't mutterings about upgrading SoT and LA start when Ben repeated Super Plafond and the Bronx (both 8c+) in France and said that they were both about the same grade as SOT/LA?
Sandbags even back then. Nic Sellars thought LA was brick hard 8c even in the old money (didn’t do and pissed Evolution).
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How does "all out" break down since the hold break in the 90's?
Is it still sport 7c into font 7C, or is the boulder problem harder now?
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How does "all out" break down since the hold break in the 90's?
Is it still sport 7c into font 7C, or is the boulder problem harder now?
Yes that's right. Its 7c to one bolt after the belay of 50 for 5 then there is a Font 7C boulder. I understand that there used to be a big undercut out right that made the crux a fair bit easier (I don't know by how much) - all you have now is 2 miserable crimps. (I have looked at the rock out right of the crux and there appears to be an ancient scar where some rock has plated off decades ago.)
I asked Rich Waterton who did this in 2000 and he said that the departed undercut was ancient and was not there when he did 2 laps on it in a session! I have 2 slides of Ian Vickers trying it the same year and he is doing the crux the way it is done today off the crimps (there is no undercut). So it seems like the 8b+ grade was only applicable for a few years after the FA and it has been a lot harder ever since (sans undercut). Apparently the crux is harder than anything on Northern Lights!
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i thin i watched 2 competitors in the speed in male and female before zoning out.
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i thin i watched 2 competitors in the speed in male and female before zoning out.
So much so it’s interfered with which thread you’ve posted in!!
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Godz...
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Would be interesting to see what people think of Victor Hugo. I've had 2 sessions on it now and that feels like a 7C boulder after a 7c+ yet get 8b. I must admit if I had done it unknowing of the grade I'd be pondering whether it's 8b+ or 8c, not 8b!
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Would be interesting to see what people think of Victor Hugo. I've had 2 sessions on it now and that feels like a 7C boulder after a 7c+ yet get 8b. I must admit if I had done it unknowing of the grade I'd be pondering whether it's 8b+ or 8c, not 8b!
I've been on it and it seems v burly and a major sandbag at 8b. I don't know the exact grade of the boulder but it seems pretty desparate! I know its been done recently by Rich and others but nobody has actively come forward to suggest an upgrade to 8b+. One of the problems of the UKC database is that there is only one grade available to log so there is no option to put your own grade, hence the massive time lag with routes being regraded (as with All Out). Whilst there is a voting system in place it seems like practically speaking this is not that effective in getting the number changed. IMO it would be better to simply have the option to log the grade you think a climb is straight away. Anyway, this is :offtopic:
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Couldn't resist sharing this nugget I have been informed about on the back of this thread. Apparently, Malc, after ripping off the crux undercut on All Out, did the 2nd ascent in a single session. :o
Have great bank holiday weekends folks!
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I remember someone telling me he ripped the hold off, immediately figured out the alternate sequence and did it next go.
But there are lots of stories about malc in his pomp.