[Paul B]

Its not like its something you can exaggerate and make it easier - its how the problem is done. In fact I can't see a way of doing it without that wouldn't seem horribly contrived. Before you start jibing it you might want to make an ascent with and see if it feels like cheating. This is one oft he reasons The Ace is so much harder. For the record I firmly believe The Joker any which way deserves 8a.

After trying this move a number of methods and failing in various spectacular ways I can confidently say that allowing the swing in to initiate the upwards motion feels like cheating.
 

[Nibile]

first: i don't want to talk about things i don't deeply know, this is just my 2p.
i think that once you've left the ground with the right foot, with left foot on the rock, it's natural to swing in, because if i remember correctly from my only glance at the problem, the right foot is a little far from the rock. so, if the start is from that position, and if it's natural to swing in, if someone is able to use the momentum to do the move, fair enough for me, bouldering is about momentum between holds you can't fully hold. you can't ask to stop the swing before doing the move, if the starting position causes the swing in.
au contraire,
if the starting position can be another one, "more pure", i'd say, in which you leave the ground more vertically and don't swing, it could make the move more difficult, not having the swing to help you.
so, maybe it's also a matter of knowing the "original and true" starting position.
sorry if i said things based on poor knowledge.

scotty, you are a beast.
 

[Scouse D]

After trying this move a number of methods and failing in various spectacular ways I can confidently say that allowing the swing in to initiate the upwards motion feels like cheating.
 

'feels' like cheating? As in feels easy? Less that 8a?
To me it seems obvious that holding the swing then going would be harder- but why make it harder?
Who set the precedent that one should make it as hard as possible? Moffatt? No.
Medals for those who hold the swing first then go; but only the same medals as those who didn't.

[Bonjoy]

I'm not suggesting there is a god (Moffat) given right or wrong way, I'm saying it's the sort of thing that people of different outlooks will interpret differently. Given this one move is the only move on the problem it makes this sequence less than the classic it is touted as in my view. Hence it is naff.

[dave]

After trying this move a number of methods and failing in various spectacular ways I can confidently say that allowing the swing in to initiate the upwards motion feels like cheating.
 

plenty of things "feel like cheating" but aren't. good conditions for example, and good beta. doesn't mean they are cheating. I don't remember reading the paragraph in "bouldering 101" where it specified that you must ensure everything is as hard as possible at all times.

[cofe]

thank god the j-dogg did the ace. what a hullaballooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Jaspersharpe]

Indeed.

Is the starting block moveable? Cos if so we could just get some choads to trundle it and end all this.

[travs]

Yeah but then Bonjoy and the Mecca gang would sicker in a mythical copy dating back to the blocks original form from 1890 as I'm sure they have already cast a copy of such an historically important piece of rock.

[Fiend]

thank god the j-dogg did the ace.

That's what an idle spectator to this thread would conclude too.

[cofe]

would you be at an advantage/disadvantage in moon boots (not ben's).

[dave]

Yeah but then Bonjoy and the Mecca gang would sicker in a mythical copy dating back to the blocks original form from 1890 as I'm sure they have already cast a copy of such an historically important piece of rock.

As long as we can restore the spelling of "sika" to its original form.

[Jaspersharpe]

I thought Neil was just being down with the kids.

[dave]

what, like the inner soft feathers of wildfowl?

[travs]

Dude - how right you are. Oh and if Bonjoy does replace the block could he make it about 4 inches higher so I can reach the starting holds without having to stand on a mat - please

[Tommy]

Man, this is some bitching going on. What's up with you all? I'm suprised by all of this as half you probably even know Scott as he lives in Sheffield and is always down at the Works.

If you're in that much doubt - just go and speak to him about it - it's not like he's locked away in a cellar refusing to ask questions!

You also have to remember here that it was me that actually gave his name out - it wasn't like he was being mega self-promotional or anything. The boy's really strong (annoyingly so!) and started to burn me off after only about 9 months of climbing (which arguably isn't hard!) so it honestly doesn't surprise me and anyone who knows him. I guess he'll be a bit disappointed by the negative reactions on here, but hey it is the internet  

[Paul B]

How curved is your back, surely you can reach the starting holds?

I'll just have to accept that its a shitter problem than I first imagined. It wasn't a case of trying to make things harder or being blinkered it all just felt a little French. I guess we can leave the rules for the tor where people shouldn't argue about them  

I'm sure nobody has meant any harm with the posts they have written Tommy they'd just like more details from Scott, mainly for interests/clarity sake as it is indeed a beastly feat.

[Jaspersharpe]

Tommy perhaps you should reread the thread. I don't see a great deal of bitching here, just pedantic discussion and pisstaking mixed with a bit of harmless speculation due to lack of information on the details of your mate's ascents.

Most have said "good effort" or words to such effect. That's not a negative reaction. 

[Bonjoy]

Tommy, most people on here have been nothing but impressed by this news. Discussing the relative merits of the problem, could be called irrelevant and out of place, but it’s doesn’t represent a negative view of Sasscotty’s achievement.

[slackline]

If you're in that much doubt - just go and speak to him about it - it's not like he's locked away in a cellar refusing to ask questions!

I thought that was re-rigeur when you'd done the Joker...

[Tommy]

Ok no worries - I guess it's always easy to get overly defensive when it's your mate and not Sharma or someone else...

I've always vowed to stay out of these type of things on the internet for this reason and here I am doing exactly the wrong thing    

Discuss away..... I'm off to do some climbing!

[dobbin]

I'm sure nobody has meant any harm with the posts they have written Tommy they'd just like more details from Scott, mainly for interests/clarity sake as it is indeed a beastly feat.

Absolutely - well said. I'm not saying he is making it up or that its all for publicity or meaning any ill will towards the lad, and certainly if I do go down the works (and escape the clutches of the evil computer breaker Brian) I will ask him about it, and hopefully I will be able to see this annoyingly strong ness in action. My original question came about because when I last saw him climb he didnt appear to be at the standard of being able to flash these problems.

So what if I have doubts? he shouldnt be bothered about the opinions of one person, certainly his mates think he's capable, but do any of them know what it takes to flash 8a? I dont know - maybe they do. 

I really hope he has flashed both problems and that he is the real deal - what a great effort if that is the case.

Discuss away..... I'm off to do some climbing!

Good for you!

[Paul B]

Right here you go:

Hey Paul! thanks
Sorry i haven't replied, I have just got back from work. anyhow, yeah the other morning I cycled out to the plantation with no expectations just lots of psyche to meet some friends who were camping out there (they ended up sleeping in the van and cars because it was too cold) i got warmed up and jumped on brad pitt then found myself dangling from the jug on my first attempt. after marcos tried it a few times he decided to give up. we went to try careless torque but only got as far as looking at it because we didn't have trillions of pads then we went over to the green traverse and deliverance for the girls to have a go. so i decided to try the joker and found myself topping on first go on that one too
are you down the works later?
if so might see you there.
see you soon mate
scott.

 

and no I won't be down the works unsurprisingly.

[a dense loner]

paul b and bonjoy stop talking with your dicks hanging out

[Paul B]

paul b and bonjoy stop talking with your dicks hanging out

why does it make you feel inadequate? 

[dobbin]

Bloody hell, that's even more impressive! Not only did he do these two mega hard flashes but he biked out there at 4 in the morning first! Double waddage. Well done beast.