[groovedog]

Hola,

I was trying this quite a bit last year. I managed to climb into it from Shock horror slab with shunt (FA. John Allen (via SHS) 1984.)

but never managed to do the direct start. (Direct start Graham Hoey, 1986)

Any beta / methods. Press up into pebble with right?

I haven't been on it for a while but hope to try and get it direct as temps drop a bit.

What an amazing only just line. 20 odd years since the first ascent.

Allen, Hoey we salute you.

[Johnny Brown]

The direct lost its 'crucial' pebble a long time ago, hence the upgrade from 6c to 7a. There are a couple of sequences; a very boney crimp move with the left hand, or a very technical right palm. Either gets you into the reasonable footholds in the scoop, from which a 6c rockover onto the left foot gains the upper slab. A fantastic route.

I don't want to preach, but its 2008. Ditch the shunt, take a pad and boulder it out.

[groovedog]

I think you are preaching! 

When / if i get the start wired I will climb it without shunt. The moves higher up aren't that easy to work out and actually do so instead of breaking my ankle (there are hard moves at 5m) using a shunt seemed the best option. Plus bouldering up to that point will probably rag your tips after 3/4 goes. Its not as if I said I've climbed it even though I did it on a shunt.

I don't really need someone else telling me what form to climb it in! Surely thats down to the individual? If your in keeping with the 1st ascent for the  grade of E5 6C/7a you'd ditch the pad otherwise isn't a bouldering grade more appropriate?

[Johnny Brown]

Well I'm going to preach - slabs like this are fragile, this one gives some of the best climbing of its kind on grit; it deserves treating with respect. People swinging around on top ropes tend to kick pebbles off. That's a sad fact. Folk on the sharp end tend to be rather more careful.

This is hardly high, if you're not up to climbing it ground up there may be better lines to try first. Lots of folk have taken years to decipher the fiendish start, and, to be honest in fifteen years you are the first person I've ever heard of top-roping this line. With the crux at the bottom and every move easier than the last, its a natural one to ground up.

Choosing a grading scale is irelevant, what matters is treating this very special piece of rock with the respect it deserves.

[andy popp]

I think you are preaching! ... I don't really need someone else telling me what form to climb it in! Surely thats down to the individual?

Well, kind of, but ...

This is hardly high and ... to be honest in fifteen years you are the first person I've ever heard of top-roping this line. With the crux at the bottom and every move easier than the last, its a natural one to ground up.

Exactly. I'm totally with Johnny. Headpointing this route would be a retrograde and potentially damaging step.

[groovedog]

fair point. I see what your saying. My fears were unlocking the start and facing 6b 6c climbing above onsight. My thoughts were to find the right holds above as to not blow it climbing through from the bottom. The top section is definately tricky and hols aren't obvious. Maybe this season I fill find a way on the bottom and unlock it ground up
Thanks for your view point

Well I'm going to preach - slabs like this are fragile, this one gives some of the best climbing of its kind on grit; it deserves treating with respect. People swinging around on top ropes tend to kick pebbles off. That's a sad fact. Folk on the sharp end tend to be rather more careful.

This is hardly high, if you're not up to climbing it ground up there may be better lines to try first. Lots of folk have taken years to decipher the fiendish start, and, to be honest in fifteen years you are the first person I've ever heard of top-roping this line. With the crux at the bottom and every move easier than the last, its a natural one to ground up.

Choosing a grading scale is irelevant, what matters is treating this very special piece of rock with the respect it deserves.

[al]

a very boney crimp move with the left hand, or a very technical right palm. Either gets you into the reasonable footholds in the scoop, from which a 6c rockover onto the left foot gains the upper slab.

try the crimp with the right, left foot pressed on the low flake and rock out left for the obvious pebbley holds out in the middle/left of the slab at the first slopey break, then rock over onto the slab left of the overlap then directly up - this is the original way, and is possible still. It might seem a small difference but it is critical; although this new way is only a metre to the right its not the same route, and too close to SHS (see 1989 guide for correct line on topo, the new book has the line slightly wrong which might be where the confusion comes from)
I'm anticipating scorn for mentioning this but its worth mentioning for reference, and am not intending to demean any ascents otherwise (especially as JB et al have ample skills to climb this old version)

[Johnny Brown]

No, that's interesting Al, I never did know where the original line went. Can you remember where the pebble was?

[al]

according to graham hoey the pebble was part of the crimp, so same place and moves (although he claims the crimp has been improved which seems unlikely to me as theres no sign of this, just a minging edge)
see original line on old topo, and new versions - its only an issue as i've been trying the original for a while and am getting high up the slab but falling off a really hard section (seems harder than the start?) - go do both and let me know if i'm wasting my time

[andy popp]

Its been so long I can't really remember where I did it but the upper section on the photodiagram certainly looks wrong - too far right. I remember this bit being central and direct. I'm sure I did this section as per JA on the classic FA shot but am not sure where I did the start. Presumably the start he did is visibly chalked in that shot. Will have to try and check. Don't think I fell off the upper section once I managed the start. I didn't know any of this history of different starts when I did it, just climbed it where it seemed obvious.

The one time I met Johnny Woodward was a baking hot summer evening at Burbage North (where he breezed across the Braille Trail traverse first go). He'd done Shirley's that afternoon!!

[grimer]

Is the difference mainly in the upper bit Al? I got the line of the upper bit from that day we were out with Ben Moon etc. I've only ever done the start, crimp in right and left foot on the flake and moving up left to a pebble in the sloping break (albeit in a lank-assisted way) then getting stood in the scoop. From there i had just thought it went straight up. Maybe you're right, because it looked like, from watching Ben, what you had to do was not touch Shock Horror's flake. The guide between the two has a pic of John Allen on the upper bit. Wonder would this show where he was?

[andy popp]

OK, found the photo (full page in OTE 20). There is a very shallow scoop almost directly below the SHS flake and in particular a very heavily chalked crease/break a few inches below and left of the where the SHS flake peters out. I think I did hard moves to get into the scoop and got that hold with my right then did another hard rock up leftwards out of the scoop - onto the foothold JA still has his L foot on in the photo. Interestingly, the holds above JA appear completely unchalked suggesting no extensive (if any) practice of the upper bit.

Grimer was there on the evening with JW; he told me he was bringing someone along but not who. My jaw just about hit the floor when they rolled into the carpark. What a hero!

Anyway, groovedog now has more beta than s/he could possibly need.

[Johnny Brown]

The way I've always done it exactly the same as you Andy - gain the scoop, rock left out of it, step up and left again - The Boss is on this move I think -  then straight up for the top passing a triangular pebble. Apart from the second move you are nowhere near Shock Horror, there is certainly no question of having to consciously avoid it. The line is much closer to the '89 guide, well perfect if it were for your left limbs!

Al, I've had the same experience as Andy, never fallen off once onto the upper slab. There shouldn't be a hard move, just tricky finding the holds to get you up to the triangular pebble. have often wished for superhuman eyesight on this bit, the footholds get very hard to pick out.

(although he claims the crimp has been improved which seems unlikely to me as theres no sign of this, just a minging edge)

A brushed crimp did appear below the square pebble further right which I use for my left hand on the palming start sequence. Simmonite was with me when I found this and got quite agitated, I daresay he told Graham. It isn't as good as the pebble though and seems to have disappeared again. The left hand 'crimp' I don't think has been improved, I've never been able to use it anywayl!

[al]

I've only ever done the start, crimp in right and left foot on the flake and moving up left to a pebble in the sloping break (albeit in a lank-assisted way) then getting stood in the scoop.

thats the start grimer, then pull onto the slab on the left and direct above these good pebbles, where the old topo goes (I get a bit lost above the start, but think i've been going too far left, reading the replies or i'm fluffing it) - regarding ben, I felt like he did the start then avoided the upper slab, although wasn't going to say this at the time, and have also upset bob and smiley rob suggesting they've not done the true line - seems like a small thing today but didn't last night, whats that about?

[grimer]

ah I see. i just did the line based on that day, so that'll be why it was out.

[dave]

incase this is of use to anyone for reference, here is the showpony slaughtering the pig of ignorance.

[al]

ah yes dave, much help - i'll attempt to follow in those steps

[Johnny Brown]

Its all over by that move Al. Just remember to look for the triangular pebble and it will guide you.

[andy popp]

We are not worthy

[grimer]

Brilliant pic.

Just in reference to the thread, i could be wrong, but JA doesn't look a million miles from the flake. Would you still put the topo line where it is in the black and blue line drawing, ie, finishing near the bush in the colour pic?

[al]

Just in reference to the thread, i could be wrong, but JA doesn't look a million miles from the flake

indeed g, its more like the ben moon line, adam seems a bit left (and i've been high up on the old topo line which is left again) - maybe your 'find the rock at the given grade' theory applies more than most here?

[Johnny Brown]

John is on exactly the same sequence I use. He's just done the second crux - rocking out of the scoop onto the left foot - and is then standing up onto the better footholds above. The flake is well out of reach at this point unless you were to traverse back right. The triangular pebble is clearly chalked (and ticked?!!) above him for the next move - getting it with the right hand. I'm two moves higher; right hand still on the pebble whilst left is on the same holds brushed and chalked in the Boss shot.

Fantastic pic. One of my all time favourites.

[andy popp]

I think there is a bit of foreshortening going on, making JA look closer to the flake than he is. Like JB said earlier, the line in the drawn topo is spot on for the left limbs (i.e. in terms of the direction of travel); it just needs shifting a bit right to represent where your body would be.

One of my all time favourites too.

ps. Do you mean the long 'tick'? Could be bird shit.

[al]

ok, i'm up there next go

[grimer]

good lucky

[Graham Hoey]

Hi,
The line of Shirley's is closer to the line diagram in the old guide (i drew it in!). The newer line is wrong. I vaguely remember early attempts on this. Starting by using an undercut for the right hand and stretching way up above the scoop to reach a sharp knife edge of a pebble with two fingers of the left hand at full stretch, you only had about three goes on this as it held by cutting into the skin! (I think right of here now is a shallow dish-type hold which didn't use to be there). My right hand then went into the scoop where there was a single poor pebble. The only way I could use this was to put the first and second finger together and slot the V shape made by the nails over the pebble. Needless to say after two attempts both nails ripped down the side, I fell off ripping skin of the left fingers as well. I stemmed the blood from both injuries by stuffing chalk into them and had another go. The right-hand pebble broke and I gave in, walking off and doing DIY on-sight in disgust. The actual ascent went more smoothly, but I clearly remember rocking left onto a pebble in a break and virtually holding my breath as every move got easier and easier as I got higher. Halcyon days.
Graham

[andy popp]

Hello Graham. Halcyon days indeed. Welcome to UKB!

[Graham Hoey]

Hi Andy,
Thanks. Just getting back into bouldering. I was ill for some time and stopped. Having the Climbing Works on my route back home certainly helps. It'd be great to get out together sometime.
All the best.
graham

[al]

nice graham, my fingers are bleeding in sympathy - whats the story with the starts ie; was yours a more direct start than JA, or did he climb this start also?