[Eddies]

Im going back to Font for a week at the end of October, last year I had terrible trouble with my elbows.

Without trying to diagnose exactly what part of my elbow was causing me grief can anyone give advice on exercises / stretches I can start doing to reduce my chances of my elbows flaring up again?

[dave]

you could try some overall back/shoulders/arm work to stabilise stuff - i think elbow is just the symptom of it, not the cause. maybe some tricep work, pressups, thereband etc.

whilst you're there steer clear of the red curcuit at cuvier - its all big locks between chipped slots on glass footholds, was always guaranteed elbowgeddon for me.

[Serpico]

The rule for these sorts of over use and stress injuries is prehabilitation: condition the muscles you don't want to get injured to withstand the stresses you're going to put them under.
Identify the muscles you always injure in Font (for me it's the brachioradialis) and start doing some medium to high rep exercises to target them.
Stretching, 'antagonist' training, etc, won't help when the fundamental problem is over use/ over stressing of the muscle.

[Eddies]

Cuvier you say?... the red circuit?... DOH

I think your deffo right with the tricep work, ive started to do more stuff like press-ups, dips and also general elbow work like reverse wrist-curls... i hope this helps.

Have you any good exercises to do with a thera-band? Ive got some but do very little elbow/tricep work with them.

[dave]

I just knot a theraband (black) to form a loop that is 2foot long laid flat (i.e. use a 5ft length). I just hold this out in front of me at arms length, arms horizontal, band around the back of the hands, and keeping em straight open the arms till they're straight out the sides and the band is taut across the chest, in control, reverse, repeat say 20 times every night. bit like an oldschool chest expander but straightarmed. i've been doing this routinely for years and has kept me fairly free of font style elbows, and general tweaks when locking deep etc. if on occaision I do get lazy and forget, elbows get tweaky again if left long enough.

[The Sausage]

Dave is on the money. My opinion is that anterior instability in the shoulder causes referred symptoms further down the arm. This is all conjecture without a proper assessment/diagnosis of course.

Do some shoulder lateral rotation exercises with a theraband, they're good for you anyway.

[SA Chris]

neil h was telling me about putting a band of fingertape around the upper forearm, applied with thumb pointing down. Saw a few people in font with this, but not tried it myself. Can you confirm neil?

[nifton]

Wow, i'm glad (sorry if you're suffering) that's it's not only me that's had this, I went in May and popped both my elbows on the morning of the second day! The pain happens after I ping off a hold i've been holding onto for dear life, so hyperextension I think.

As for the tape, I found it a life saver, If you use it before it happens, it will prolong the time before your elbow goes, if you use it after it helps ease the pain, i put it on as tight as I can get it without it pinching when I move it.

[slackline]

neil h was telling me about putting a band of fingertape around the upper forearm, applied with thumb pointing down. Saw a few people in font with this, but not tried it myself. Can you confirm neil?

I hear its a popular look this year 

[richdraws]

I think Ru posted this previously.

http://www.athlon.com.au/articles/r&i_dodgyelbow.pdf

[Fultonius]

Once in Font I got Lateral Epicondylosis, but I don't seem to have a problem with that anymore.

Serpico - I quite often end up with inflamed Brachioradialis - especially in font.

What are good "pre-habilitation" exercises to do for this?

Also, if you're out for a weektrip and you start getting it, what's the best course of action? Rest longer between attempts? Stretch it more? Go home?

[SA Chris]

Stop slapping for that same sloper again and again and again. You won't get it and it's a shit problem anyway!

Warm up properly, and stretch.

[Fultonius]

I've been trying to incorporate bicep and brachiradialis stretches into my warm down.

Also, are you trying to say all probelms in font with slopers are rubbish?

[SA Chris]

No, just the ones I can't do.

[Fultonius]

I heard they're the best ones 

Anyway, back to the OP - any good training? Pronated bicep curls with dumb bells?

[Eddies]

Stop slapping for that same sloper again and again and again. You won't get it and it's a shit problem anyway!

Cortomaltèse was the culprit, but i did get it in the end... then found out it had been down-graded. DOH

[SA Chris]

Stop slapping for that same sloper again and again and again. You won't get it and it's a shit problem anyway!

Cortomaltèse was the culprit, but i did get it in the end... then found out it had been down-graded. DOH

Funny, that's what I had in mind when I typed that originally.

[Eddies]

Thought so, it looks alot nicer than it climbs!

[nik at work]

In order to keep climbing you can take ibuprofen.
I'm not suggesting taking it long term to climb, a very bad idea but...

If you are in Font for one week and you just want to get through a couple of days of relatively pain-free climbing then a pre-emptive ibuprofen in the morning can work wonders. I did that this Easter and it worked well. Just be careful you are after all masking pain and pain is there to tell you something is wrong.

Once again ibuprofen is not a long term solution to sore elbows (rest etc is the way) but to eek out an extra day or two on your one Font trip of the year it seems to work.

[Serpico]

Once in Font I got Lateral Epicondylosis, but I don't seem to have a problem with that anymore.

Serpico - I quite often end up with inflamed Brachioradialis - especially in font.

What are good "pre-habilitation" exercises to do for this?

Also, if you're out for a weektrip and you start getting it, what's the best course of action? Rest longer between attempts? Stretch it more? Go home?

I discussed the (bio)mechanics of font elbow with PT. We came to the conclusion that it's probably the position of the arm on the numerous compression and arete moves ie: thumb up as if you were shaking hands, that puts greater emphasis on the BR. Typically you slap into a side hold, and as your body moves backward the elbow joint increases and the elbow flexors are stretched in a forced eccentric contraction. Do this repeatedly and you've got font elbow.
That's not to say that every instance of FE is down to that, I know a couple of people who have elbow trouble related to neck problems, but with font there's a lot of dynamic moves that you do (try) repeatedly with a similar arm position that isn't practised extensively in the UK.
For conditioning exercises try hammer curls with dumbbells or a theraband. 3 sets of ~12 reps. Don't let the exercise get too intense that you start to cause the injury you're trying to prevent.
Take a theraband with you to font and do some light sets as part of a warm up, and regularly during the day. I find that tubegauze elbow supports help, mainly just by keeping the elbow warm I think.
If you start getting pain while you're out there back off, try some slabs, or wall climbs and stay away from anything dynamic. If you don't normally climb 3-4 days in a row you shouldn't expect to be able to do it in font without consequences.

[Fultonius]

Cheers Serpico....going to get those dumbells swinging!

It's so true about multiple days climbing - I normally only ever climb 2 days in a row, until i have a week of work and i climb every day it's dry.

Not normally a problem on the trad...but it's a recipe for certain disaster at font!

[dave k]

There is
another brand of the same condition.
Instead of an affected FCU, the culprit
is pronator teres, the muscle that
turns your forearm so the palm faces
down

I tried out some the exercises menitoned in the article. I have had some tendon issues over the summer- in th lower bicep. I thought a few weeks of these exercises might be a good idea. The article stated that you should be fatigued at the end of each set. I wasn`t after set one, so upped the weight and completed 3 sets. My FCU and Pronator Teres in my right forearm are still really stiff 48 hours later.

Any advise?

[Fultonius]

Just back from Font today, got the dreaded "bo" {as in, aaahhhh  I've got the bloody "bo"}

In fact, I got it on the first day, within 30 mins of starting and had it pretty much continuously for the 4 days 

Still, had an awesome time and got up some really cool problems despite the heat. Finally got La Toit du Cul du Chien and also did Elecubration at Sabot, Sa Pelle au Logis and Le Pare Dessus at Gorge aux Chat and the Vin Rouge dyno at Isatis. 


So, how do you get rid of the dreaded "bo" ? Most of the time it felt like inflamed Brachialis Radialis but I also got some tricep pain right near the elbow.

I'm guessing rest will help, but is there a range of exercises that will help me get back in shape?

[a dense loner]

i think you need to look at your climbing, training, diet, and psychology. nobody gets font elbow in 30 mins, and who wants to be a nobody. even uncles a somebody

[Fultonius]

Well, training: Currently just train by bouldering and climbing. I do weights for my shoulders as my left shoulder was partially dislocating but it's fine now. I have nothing to train for just now (upcoming trips, comps etc.) so it seems like the prefect time to take a short break then get back into it slowly and try to address my problem areas.

To be fair, I have been bouldering at Dumbarton a lot recently and my project was giving me a bit of the the font elbow before I went, so it's not really surprising that I got it quickly.

Diet: I eat pretty healthily, nothing extreme (ie I get plenty carbs/fat/protein) but I don't drink milk (or eat any other dairy stuff - I can't!) so I try to eat loads of broccolli to keep up the calcium levels.

Psychology: Yeah, probably my biggest weakness - I don't rest enough between attempts, I try, I fail.

Right now though, for the next couple of weeks, what's the best way to help recovery? Is climbing ok (I'd guess doing easy routes at the wall will be fine as long as it's not aggrivating my elbows?)

[Jaspersharpe]

Right now though, for the next couple of weeks, what's the best way to help recovery? Is climbing ok (I'd guess doing easy routes at the wall will be fine as long as it's not aggrivating my elbows?)

I would have thought that these questions are impossible to answer without a proper diagnosis from a physio or suchlike? Just because it "feels like" it might be something doesn't mean it is that! I'd get it checked out properly.

[Fultonius]

I'm at the physio all the damn time. 

So, I'll just assume it's what I think it is for a couple of weeks and if it doesn't get better then I'll give him a phone - sometimes he doesn't even bother getting me to come in.

I'm going for:

1 Weeks total rest. (well, maybe go for a run)
1 week of gentle stretches and maybe some light climbing.

Reassess condition. Go to physio if required.

Another 2 weeks of light climbing. (then I'm away with work for 2 weeks, so probably pretty much resting anyway)

Should be good after that. Then I can start bringing in some more exercises that'll hopefully prevent this in future.

[Eddies]

Ive found what looks like a good full shoulder and elbow thera-band workout here:
www.medicalcenter.osu.edu/pdfs/PatientEd/Materials/PDFDocs/exer-reh/upper/ther-scap.pdf

[dave k]

Both my physio and RU`s article have informed me that tendons strengthen less quickly than muscles. Something to do with a lower blood supply to tendons.

Therefore a sudden increase in climbing intensity (which I have done over the last 18 months) can lead to tendonitus and possibly tendonosis (tendon degeneration).

The solution  appears to be to strengthen the tendons- while not strenghtening the muscles.

This is why most exercises I have come across - use one hand on extension and two hands on contraction- e.g. bicep curl with dub bell- lift with two hands, then lower slowly with one hand.


 

[webbo]

Both my physio and RU`s article have informed me that tendons strengthen less quickly than muscles. Something to do with a lower blood supply to tendons.

i don't mean to be rude but anyone who trains seriously and doesn't know this must having being living in a parallel universe.