[Tim Broughtonshaw]

Yo,
      had a quick search but couldn't find any previous posts which helped.

before i slipped a disc in my neck last year (un related to front levers by the way) i was progressing up to 45 seconds in the tucked position. found however putting or attempting to put one leg straight caused the whole position to fail without achieveing it for even a second.  I'm back trying them again. I was wondering if any of you guys who have achieved a front lever had any other intermediate steps than in the dragon door article. Or if you used any other exercises to help you along the way or measure related progress.


Cheers
Tim

[richdraws]

It sounds like your problem is your core strength. When you are curled your abdominals are in a stronger position, as soon as your leg goes out it opens up your hips and abdomen.  A good front lever is straight, with no sag or pike in the body. The straight position really pulls at your hips and lower back, this is the area you will need to strengthen.

Deadlifts, back bridges, back extensions, good mornings and lying down overhead dumbbell extensions will help.

On the rings...
L-sits and back levers will help as will skin the cats.
I developed my front lever by lowering down into it slowly from inverted hang. A spotter can be of use to stop you dropping too quickly.

[Falling Down]

Hi Tim,

Straight leg L raises in 3 sets of 12 to 15 reps worked wonders for me a couple of years ago. I was able to progress to a one leg straight lever quite quickly after a few weeks of these.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

Straight leg L raises in 3 sets of 12 to 15 reps worked wonders for me a couple of years ago. I was able to progress to a one leg straight lever quite quickly after a few weeks of these.

im happy to concede its the abs if that is what it is, however. my current ab strength is,

can do 60 reps alternate (raise to left then middle then right) captains chair, these are without momentum but no pausing.
can hold body in a plank ( dont hink this is the right name description is lying on back with legs and back off the floor ) for 60 seconds.

I do think lower back i need to work on as i find this fails when doing hanging leg extensions (rather than captains chair) or prevents me from being straight enough to do many reps in good form.

Cheers
Tim

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

The straight position really pulls at your hips and lower back, this is the area you will need to strengthen.

Deadlifts, back bridges, back extensions, good mornings and lying down overhead dumbbell extensions will help.

On the rings...
L-sits and back levers will help as will skin the cats.
I developed my front lever by lowering down into it slowly from inverted hang. A spotter can be of use to stop you dropping too quickly.

aye think lower back needs some priority, unfortunately dont have any rings or easy access to a place to hang them.


cheers
Tim

[richdraws]

you can do L-sits on the floor, indeed they can be much harder for the inflexible. Back levers can be done on a bar, if there is enough clearance you can do the lower downs.

When attempting to put your other leg out focus on keeping your body dish shaped, tight arse and very slightly rounded back. Do not let your hips open up.

There is an exercise that Brucie Lee  used to do that puts the focus more on the abs and slightly lessens the stress on the shoulders.
Lie on your back reach behind you and grab something that is not going to move, (I used to put my hands under the sofa when I was a kid, I think I would need someone on there now to stop it lifting) then raise your body so you are poiting straight in the air with your feet above you and your weight should be on your upper back and shoulders. Now adopt the lever position you are working either tucked/straight or combo. Then lower down tot he ground keeping your body stiff, slightly brush the ground the raise back up.

I can try and get a photo of these if my description is poor.

[webbo]

how do you move in to the lever postion.the easiest way i have found is to invert i.e feet towards ceiling.get in to one or two leg postion and slowly lower to horizontal.

[a dense loner]

that is def the easiest way webbo

rich i very much doubt you can do the bruce ex if you can't do a front lever. this puts a massive strain on the lower back, as does a front lever. lower back is key for all these core ex's. without it you've just got a strong stomach

[richdraws]

Yeah I threw it in just in case it was just a shoulder girdle weakness, though from his description it is most likely core stability.
Good exercise though

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

Yeah I threw it in just in case it was just a shoulder girdle weakness, though from his description it is most likely core stability.
Good exercise though

will have another go tonight and see if i can extablish which area specifically fails first.

Thanks for the help

[The Sausage]

The problem you are having has already been touched on, but i think not fully. It's all to do with the position of your pelvis...

...when you are in a tucked position, your pelvis is tilted. Now, to get your leg straight out in front of you, you have to go into hip extension (i.e. your femur is coming out the back of your hip joint). In this position, your hip flexors are weak, and don't really support the weight of your legs, so they sag down.

In order to use the tucked to single leg technique, you need to start with your knees pointing upwards, not tucked into your chest. Concentrate on having a flat lumbar spine, rather than being curled up.

You need to look into doing core stability exercises using transversus abdominis (a deep corset like muscle) rather than rectus abdominis (your 6 pack). That way you can keep your pelvis in a neutral position and your other muscles will be able to work much more effectively.

[Paul B]

It seems I failed last time I tried to post this so here goes again:



0:37s, not the best example but an ice cream maker, they're meant to be good for front lever progressions.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

0:37s, not the best example but an ice cream maker, they're meant to be good for front lever progressions.

they look rather strange.  Again dont have any rings. think they could be done on a pullup bar? Or are the wrists to rigid i wonder? wish work would have some pullup bars etc.

Cheers
Tim

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

The problem you are having has already been touched on, but i think not fully. It's all to do with the position of your pelvis...

...when you are in a tucked position, your pelvis is tilted. Now, to get your leg straight out in front of you, you have to go into hip extension (i.e. your femur is coming out the back of your hip joint). In this position, your hip flexors are weak, and don't really support the weight of your legs, so they sag down.

In order to use the tucked to single leg technique, you need to start with your knees pointing upwards, not tucked into your chest. Concentrate on having a flat lumbar spine, rather than being curled up.

You need to look into doing core stability exercises using transversus abdominis (a deep corset like muscle) rather than rectus abdominis (your 6 pack). That way you can keep your pelvis in a neutral position and your other muscles will be able to work much more effectively.

ok i can try a moderation on the ticked progression with the knees pointing upwards.


I was sadly disappointed last night as i tried to do a l-sit on the floor and failed dismally. 
just lifting the legs off the floor seemed really hard. and yet i seem ok with captains chair exercises. I do notice that captains chair seems to take away the lower back requirement. I can see i need to do more of these.


anyone got any suggestions for some lower back exercises which i can do at work (sneak off into a quiet room periodically). i.e. only got a floor. Something like supermans?

Cheers
Tim

[richdraws]

You may have to use your ingenuity a little to tailor the following to your 'quiet room's facilities;

http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=509&sid=fc095114568cf08c0f82e3392dab560c
http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634

one persons progress to front lever
http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=639

I can not find any reference for the following so I will try to describe this good exercise for lower back and shoulder strength;
 basically adopt a headstand starting position with your legs in front of you, then with straight legs lift them from the floor to a full headstand position and repeat, try not to weight the floor with your toes on your repetitions. You can alter the difficulty of the exercise by straddling or bending your legs.
Try to use your arms only for stability - not to aid in the lift.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

You may have to use your ingenuity a little to tailor the following to your 'quiet room's facilities;

http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=509&sid=fc095114568cf08c0f82e3392dab560c
http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634

one persons progress to front lever
http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=639

Rich and all thanks for the help ,
        that link from the guy on his progress to a front lever was good. Not sure ill be wanting to try that example you illustrated. it does look like it applies a lot of stress to the neck and this seems like a bad idea under current slipped disc related cirumstances. Additionally the floor space i hae access to at work is tiled and therfore not very soft for a head. 

Cheers
Tim

[Philidawg]

Some useful tips....

http://www.beastskills.com/FrontLever.htm

[Paul B]

0:37s, not the best example but an ice cream maker, they're meant to be good for front lever progressions.

they look rather strange.  Again dont have any rings. think they could be done on a pullup bar? Or are the wrists to rigid i wonder? wish work would have some pullup bars etc.

Cheers
Tim

really? it just looks to me as a quick 'cheat' to get your body into the right position and resist it for long enough to make some improvements over time.

I was sadly disappointed last night as i tried to do a l-sit on the floor and failed dismally. 
just lifting the legs off the floor seemed really hard. and yet i seem ok with captains chair exercises. I do notice that captains chair seems to take away the lower back requirement. I can see i need to do more of these.
Cheers
Tim

Do them either forward of the back rest or just hanging from rings/bar. This stops you cheating with the back rest, or even worse going past it and 'bouncing' back into the next raise.
 

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

well after rereading some of the articeles i realised that although i could nearly do the tucked plank for a minute previously i dont think i then tried the advanced tuck plank, i.e. the knees pointing upward with straight back. I tried some last night and can really feel the strain when attempting to keep the position. think im gonna keep this as per the dragon door articles and get up to a minute on this progression.

However in order to complement this (as per his suggestions here http://www.beastskills.com/FrontLever.htm ) i  also tried the tucked pullups which seemed hardish and quite a good option. 

how ever neither are really concentrating on the core issues i need to work on. so i'm thinking of trying some more captains chairs as Paul suggested without the back flat on the board.

What are peoples thoughts on good mornings? and as for a climbing specifc help would you think holding the position better or just doing the reps?


cheers
Tim

[Paul B]

What are peoples thoughts on good mornings? and as for a climbing specifc help would you think holding the position better or just doing the reps?

Personally i'd just do the reps in a nice controlled manner, you could got for TUT by pausing and concentrating on contracting the correct muscle group at the top and bottom of the rep but just keep your form PERFECT regardless of what you do.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

well since i cannot do any good mornigns at work. Tried some dorsal raises with raised split legs as well. Hands beneath forehead and legs split raising and holding for a count of 3, can do 10 of these without any real problems. will make it a 5 second count i think and do these for a week, see if they help complement things.

As for front lever progressions tried again last night post pullups. Which brings me to the thoughts that if im training both on the same evening i think front lever work should come first as the pullups does fatigue the forarms and back enough to make the front lever work harder. At least it appeared so to me.

Cheers
Tim

[DubDom]

straddle front levers are the gymnastics progression to front lever, gradually bringing your legs together as you get stronger

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

straddle front levers are the gymnastics progression to front lever, gradually bringing your legs together as you get stronger

aye dude spotted that in that gymnastic body article. I need to nail the advanced tuck for 1 minute first i suspect.

[philo]

ive only really tried this a few times and cant hold the full front lever, can hit the position straight but can stop for about 0.3 seconds.
the training with one leg full stretch and one leg still tucked seems to be working but its weird as it pulls you slightly over to that side and sometimes off balance if you know what i mean. 
what other training can you do to progress rather than just practice?
anything on a yoga ball? 

[richdraws]

Strengthen your stomach;
Body curls on a bar - hang from a bar and curl your body up into the tucked lever position, touch shins to bar and repeat.
Straight leg lifts - hang from bar pike at waist and lift legs, touch shins to bar.
Ab-rollers
L-sits on floor or rings
Russian leg lifts - you will need a spotter, do the straight leg lifts but your spotter will prevent your shoulders travelling backwards by pushing your forwards.
Brucie Lee body levers

All of the above can be made more difficult by attaching a light weight to your feet. When I first got the front lever I could only do them barefoot.

Strengthen your shoulders
If you dont have access to rings...
Weighted pull ups, try to touch your sternum or belly button to the bar.
Overhead extensions on a bench (go heavy) - http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/upper-body-exercise.html
With the tucked or straddle lever try adding a few pull ups, these can be done trying to maintain the horizontal or dropping the body down into tucked hang for each chin rep.
I found muscle ups helpful as a stepping stone to levers (with the lads I coached they all got strong at the muscle up first).

Just keep working the lever and it will come.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

Hi,
         just reread this thread after getting backinto some front lever work. Not sure if i am overdoing it but i dont seem to be sufering any injuries........(i hope)  in the mornings and evenings im basically having a couple of hangs with 5 minutes between goes. but what i am also doing is to use my old weightlifting straps. which takes out the grip requirement. I did find that trying after a hard forearm workout i couldnt do front levers as well, equally a climbing session may suffer due to trying them. so guessing this is a good idea. suppose strengthening the grip is something which shouldnt be the bottleneck on progression for this exercise so i shouldnt get any determental effects due to cutting the grip element out.  Anyway im back to 45seconds in the advanced tuck position. 

some reading suggests lowering into the lever from inverted is also helpful.  I assume trying this will result in me quickly hitting the deck with my feet as i am unable to hold it. are there any progressions for this worth trying also? ie lowering into a one leg front lever? what is the easiest to start with?

Cheers
Tim

[SteG]

Hi Tim,

Some of the guys at the wall lower in and say it's really helpful. I've tried this method and you don't just spin all the day down, more of a graceful fade from the horizontal 

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

thanks ste, so you have tried with the legs out straight?

hmm wonder what would be a suitable period of sets or time for this? i.e. 5 attempts or a max of x seconds? before/after/instead the advanced tuck. think ill try ,after, tonight.


cheers
Tim

[webbo]

invert i.e get the soles of your feet pointing at the ceiling.bend one leg across the other get your heel as near your groin as you can,lower down to the horizontal.once you can hold this gradually straighten  your bent leg.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

thanks mate. ill give this a try later. im presuming you alternate which leg is straight and which is bent?

Cheers
Tim

[SteG]

Tim, not both (well i did once and just swung wildly back down, over-rotated and fell off the bar), so far with 1 straight and the other at 90deg at the hip and knee. I usually try and hold for as long as possible for 3-5 sets (or until i loose form). I also mix it up a wee bit by trying good form: fully tucked for longer time periods and different progressions for longer/shorter periods - it seems a bit haphazzard tho, guess I should concentrate a bit more... 

[webbo]

thanks mate. ill give this a try later. im presuming you alternate which leg is straight and which is bent?

Cheers
Tim

no as seem to remember that i quickly progressed to the full lever.although my body shape is fuck all use for climbing it appears to be ideal for levers.
long body, short legs.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

hmm strange would have thought that your body would try to pivot and thus one side of the body presumably the same side as the extended leg would need to work harder and thus get stronger faster.  anyways ill get stuck into it later on.  super keen to get a front lever nailed.

cheers
tim

[Paul B]

hmm strange would have thought that your body would try to pivot and thus one side of the body presumably the same side as the extended leg would need to work harder and thus get stronger faster.  anyways ill get stuck into it later on.  super keen to get a front lever nailed.

cheers
tim

I'd alternate legs... just like if I was doing mixed grip on deadlifting I'd alternate. It makes sense. Lop sided traps or stomach 

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

cool thanks for the suggestions all.

[webbo]

maybe thats why 30 years later i now have a problem with my abs on the right hand side going into spasm. :wall:doh!

[Nibile]

i finally managed to get some footage. i am at this point now.

this was at the end of the last session, so tired+injured shoulder. i hope one day to be able to do it from dangling, raising my body straight with straight arms. plus the mythical one armed front lever.

[guru]

part animal, part machine and part E.T. 

[Monolith]

A welcome to the guru! 

[Will Hunt]

But who is he? I need to know for my ever growing list of UKB usernames and the real names of the people behind them. Beware, it's growing.

[Nibile]

check the link in his profile, it's his training website, you'll find everything there.

[davej]

looks  like an interesting site may i also add

[GlenB]

Not sure if this ha been mentioned above as got lost in some of the detail.

This is something you can do while at home watching TV.

lie flat on your back.  arms straight out over head.  now fold in half so that you touch your toes with your hands. now slowly, very slowly release back to the floor and repeat.  this should help you leavers.  it helped mine.

doing less with better form is more beneficial than lots really quick and with poor form

Glen

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

As a thought to this thread.

I generally try my front lever progressions in the morning before work. Im currently using the 1minute theory from the olympian bodies article.  Does anyone else who is or has tried and succeeded on the progressions just grab the bar and get stright into it? or is there some form of quick warmup which will get the muscles firing?

was thinking similar to climbing training whereby you seem to recruit more fibres after a progressive warmup and find yourself much stronger into the workout rather than immediately upon starting.

hope this question makes sense?

Cheers
Tim

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

anyone?

[lagerstarfish]

If I'm not already warmed up (I only try f levers when I'm feeling good) I quickly work through a simple progression.

Short rest with shake out in between each exercise

couple of slow pullups, short deadhang off each arm, from 2 arm hang curl knees to chest and back down slowly (couple of times), fully tucked lever (maybe pull up a couple of times in this position), couple of slow L pullups (knees slightly bent and don't let arms go fully straight to avoid funny pull in my back that hurts), couple of icecream maker type lifts without holding the horizontal position.

Couple of minutes rest after that and everything feels good (just done it whilst writing) - time for levers while I wait for coffee to bubble up

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

Thanks lagers, ive been just pulling straight on and doing the advanced tuck for around 45 seconds(counted 1 thousand, 2 thousand etc) then resting for a few minutes and managing about 30 seconds next go, and then going to work. Having already achieved the 1Minute suggested in that dragondoor/olympian bodies article. I suspect i need to warm up similar to you, and try something else in addition if im going to progress.

Tim

[Serpico]

...and try something else in addition if im going to progress.

Tim

We talked about this; you need some quality Cave time -it worked for me.

A.

[Tim Broughtonshaw]

...and try something else in addition if im going to progress.

Tim

We talked about this; you need some quality Cave time -it worked for me.

A.

hmm sounds good. however im finding it difficult to draw myself from the gravitational pull that is the big yorkshire 3 at weekends.


Cheers
Tim