[Dave Flanagan]

Yesterday I bought a bar and 50kgs of weight what exercises should I do to improve my bouldering?

[webbo]

i tend to use my weights more for antagonistic exs i.e.shoulder press,lat raises,bench press with a few bicep/tricep exs and some bent over rows.

[Nibile]

Yesterday I bought a bar and 50kgs of weight what exercises should I do to improve my bouldering?

campusing.

[Nibile]

sorry...
i think you should train every muscle, not only antagonistic ones. i am currently doing a cycle of weights (not as seriously as i should) and feel quite good about that. mind, it's only to get more overall power, to prevent injuries and to prepare my body for next autumn and winter of specific training.
what's your goal with the weights?

[Dave Flanagan]

what's your goal with the weights?

I suppose my goal is build all round strength which I think is a bigger factor in bouldering than it might seem. I don't go to wall from March to October so I need to do something. The style of bouldering I do usually, friction, granite is rarely fingery and is also about body tension and compression so I reckon so it might benifit from some overall power.

[Paul B]

Yesterday I bought a bar and 50kgs of weight what exercises should I do to improve my bouldering?

What condition are you currently in? I'd be wary of recommending something without knowing that because in some cases it just isn't relevant.

I've had a good couple of rants on my blog about various aspects of weight training recently as well as diet, not sure how relevant they would be though.

[Nibile]

i know paul isn't a fan of this, but i really improved my overall power by doing four sets of 25 reps for every muscular group with little weight. i think it's a good way to start, you stress the muscle gently and don't bulk. then you're ready for starting with bigger weights. try to avoid the 9-14 reps range if you want to avoid bulking up, but it also depends from how prone you are to getting muscle mass, your diet, how correctly you train. all these factors contribute to make this reply very useless.
anyway good luck.

[Paul B]

i know paul isn't a fan of this, but i really improved my overall power by doing four sets of 25 reps for every muscular group with little weight. i think it's a good way to start, you stress the muscle gently and don't bulk. then you're ready for starting with bigger weights. try to avoid the 9-14 reps range if you want to avoid bulking up, but it also depends from how prone you are to getting muscle mass, your diet, how correctly you train. all these factors contribute to make this reply very useless.
anyway good luck.

lets not go back here. It's like saying "I want to get strong and powerful, hey I know, I'll go and do some endurance training routes perhaps"....
You KNOW it doesn't make sense and yes you gain strength, it's something new but its not efficient at all. Do things properly, there's a million and one scientific articles to prove this point.

[Paul B]

I'll add to the above:
 if you plateau, or before undertaking a serious weights program it can useful to do high rep training in order to increase the Vascularity of a given muscle group, improving the blood supply and setting yourself up for bigger gains in the future.

Nibile I'm sure on Guru's plan you have made gains, I strongly believe that if you'd followed something else you would have made bigger gains without turning into a huge monster.

Dave:
How often are you looking at training?
Will you still be fitting in climbing?
If so what do you currently do 1 on 1 off etc. ?
What equipment do you have access to, bench (decline to fully seated?), dumbbells, pullup bar, barbell (how heavy?)

as all of the above will dictate what will be of benefit and realistically what you can do.

[Serpico]

I rate these dumbbell complexes for conditioning/strength:  http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html
I usually do them after climbing on my last day on.

[Nibile]

no no paul, the 4x25 isn't a guru plan, just a suggestion from a strong friend. i think i made gains because it was ages since i last did weights, but this all was two years ago.
now i'm generally doing 5 sets of 6 reps, it's strenuous but obviously it's much more power oriented, i just can feel it in my body. and to be honest, despite the look i get back from the mirros in the gym, i don't think i'm bulking up, but surely i'm improving alot my muscular quality. i just think that the 4x25 routines are much easier to go along with some proper climbing specific training, while the powerful sessions of 5x6 take much more to be digested. the day after a session i can't really climb hard, in the gym at last, but really these days i don't know, after the broken wrist i kinda lost every parameter, so now i just go with the flow trying to pull as hard as i can without (almost) breaking my wrist again. i think i can't say nothing really up to date until i get some rest, some proper bone repair, some decent temps and i can do some tests.
in the meanwhile, crushing hard is truly welcome.

[Paul B]

I rate these dumbbell complexes for conditioning/strength:  http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html
I usually do them after climbing on my last day on.

Nice find!!! After climbing on your last day on is hardcore...

[Serpico]

I rate these dumbbell complexes for conditioning/strength:  http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html
I usually do them after climbing on my last day on.

Nice find!!! After climbing on your last day on is hardcore...

To be fair I do them after climbing, not bouldering which I find more intense on the body than routes which usually just tends to be about the fingers.

Old Istvan also has a youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/ijavorek which is useful for form and exercise description. Note that some of the dumbbell complexes are slightly different than the ones on his website.

[Slide]

Basic principal of weights:

1- 6 reps = strength
6-12 reps= size
12-20+=endurance

2-4 Sets each exercise (not including warm up sets)

Now obviously these cross over somewhat but if you keep the general numbers in mind then you're on the right track.

Piss!

[Paul B]

Note that some of the dumbbell complexes are slightly different than the ones on his website.

Its good that there are videos so you can check your form, thats one issue resolved as pointing people towards complex exercises is usually a scary thought.

Basic principal of weights:

1- 6 reps = strength
6-12 reps= size
12-20+=endurance

2-4 Sets each exercise (not including warm up sets)

Now obviously these cross over somewhat but if you keep the general numbers in mind then you're on the right track.

Piss!

I know you said basic principles but its a bit of an over simplification especially in the set range. 5 x 5 is an extremely common starting point for strength/power. People even suggest 10 sets of 3.

[Slide]

I'm definately over simplifying things. Like i said these numbers will cross over. There's loads of possible combinations but if you keep the basic principles of weight training to mind you wont go far wrong.

[Slide]

Oh,  one ommision. It's usual as Paul states, to up the sets if you drop the reps for strength.

[a dense loner]

next you're gonna say "with longer rests between"

buy a kettlebell and stop messing about

[The Sausage]

Here's my two-penneth...

I remember reading an interview with a weight lifter. When asked whether you should do low reps and high weights or high reps and low weights, he said "high reps and high weights". I suppose this translates as, whatever you decide to do, how hard you try is the most important variable.

Secondly, I think the idea of agonist-antagonist muscles is somewhat out dated. We now know that muscles work in synergistic groups. For example, if you do a squat (a quads exrecise), you'll feel your hamstrings working. This is even more relevant in the shoulders and arms, as these joints are so much less structurally stable. This is why doing rings (for example) can be so effective.

[robertostallioni]

I'm with you Sausage re. the synergistic groups bit.
I remember the Clean and Jerk being a great exercise for getting multiple muscle groups to start firing in unison.

 As part of our current 'extra curricular' rotation we are doing weighted pull ups (reducing weight as we go to maintain 6-8 reps) and eventually negatives(with no weight) which is also along the same synergistic lines of controlling multiple muscle groups in a complex motion. Also, weighted press ups, eventually aided on the ups to maintain form and allow negs on the downs. Its amazing how much bicep is required for neg press ups, but as the triceps fail first(on the ups) the bicep rarely gets hooned. Another good transition exercise using muscle group synergy.

Stallioni

[Paul B]

Here's my two-penneth...

I remember reading an interview with a weight lifter. When asked whether you should do low reps and high weights or high reps and low weights, he said "high reps and high weights". I suppose this translates as, whatever you decide to do, how hard you try is the most important variable.

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=547470

I'm not quite sure it's just how hard you try that matters. Here's some SCIENCE behind 10 sets of 3 (high load high volume, effectively both as le sausage quotes), recommended in a lot of circles for fat loss but previously has been used for strength.

Secondly, I think the idea of agonist-antagonist muscles is somewhat out dated. We now know that muscles work in synergistic groups. For example, if you do a squat (a quads exrecise), you'll feel your hamstrings working. This is even more relevant in the shoulders and arms, as these joints are so much less structurally stable. This is why doing rings (for example) can be so effective.

Complex exercises are commonly accepted to be far better than isolation for strength. Bench, Squats, Deads, Clean and Jerk, Arnold press, thrusters the list goes on. But then again if you're not careful with selecting your exercises you'll limit the amount of days you can train so it's still worth bearing in mind.

Lee's seen the future and it's shaped like a bell.

As part of our current 'extra curricular'...

I'm intrigued, for climbing?

Where's the OP disappeared to? he's going to get a bit of a shock when he comes back to this...

[robertostallioni]

I identify my mid term goals(3-4 months off) to form the basis of my training to meet them. This core will then form the basis of my week. In addition to  this, in rotations of 4-6 weeks, we focus on a more particular facet. Ie core, weights, campus etc. By changing this focus monthly(ish) but maintaining the meat of the climbing based training I find good 'system shocking' benefits without repetition injuries. The Basis of my training also changes focus approximately monthly depending on upcoming events, starting months in advance with a stamina focus all the way through to boulder/ power focus ending a couple of weeks before an event, then 2 weeks of tie-in where I 'wake-up' the endurance/PE again so that I may unleash when necessary.
Stallion

[Nibile]

that article is very intriguing. my only concern is as usual hypertrophy. is there some stat about weight gain (lean mass) and power gain? it surely seems to work for sprinters, but they haven't to hang on to small holds. this is a big issue, i don't care about doing ten one armers if i can't pull on a crimp.

[Paul B]

YES, here's a short one:

http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/vs.htm

[Serpico]

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=547470

I'm not quite sure it's just how hard you try that matters. Here's some SCIENCE behind 10 sets of 3 (high load high volume, effectively both as le sausage quotes), recommended in a lot of circles for fat loss but previously has been used for strength..

That article does completely ignore the hormonal effect on hypertrophy and the fatigue metabolites that are hypothesized to trigger it:
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/100/5/1443