[GCW]

I've got a Mountain Hardare vest stylee and a North Face Nuptse with sleeves.  Had them both year and they have been great.  Vest type things are definitely better for bouldering.

[Will Hunt]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread.

When a gentleman looks to buy a new down jacket, what sort of fill power should he consider a minimum for cold-as-the-grave winter days on the boulders?

[mrjonathanr]

what sort of fill power should he consider a minimum?

That's not easy:

[Fultonius]

Construction is as important as fill power. I've got a ME Lightline and it's not very warm - the stitch through baffles are just cheap and crap and the popper-off hood just falls off willy nilly.

I much preferred the older  one with grown-on hood (which sadly I lost at some point  )

Mibbie this one?  http://rab.equipment/uk/shop/men/down-insulation/positron-jacket-30   (at least has box wall on the body)

[Will Hunt]

Does Rab stuff still fall apart at the slightest touch as it did a few years ago?

[tomtom]

my 5-6 YO Alpkit one has proved tough... for the last three years its lived in a fetid state in the back of my car - only coming out on cold boulderizing days and its still warm and lofty. Though if I were after another one I'd get a cheapy decathlog one.. bouldering is not necessarily hard on a down jackets construction, but it gets them grubby and messed up super fast (splotches of blood, mud, chalk and other fluids....) ~ and they're not best suited to bunging in the washer every week...

[abarro81]

My alpkit one has lasted well but they don't seem to make them anymore

[Footwork]

Mine came from the USSR, but I don't know if they still sell them since the shop changed owners

[Johnny Brown]

Controversial, but the only time I wear a down jacket now is for belaying when mountaineering. Synthetic all the way for bouldering, you get wind and water-proofing then which are generally of more use for our climate.

[mrjonathanr]

My thoughts also..What would you recommend?

[T_B]

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-warm-mens-jacket-id_8271763.html

Or you could spend £200 on the equivalent Arcteryx.

With regards to down, our ME hire stock has fared better than the Rab in recent years. I have a PHD down sweater that was made with 900 fill power down. Until today when I got soaked through in it, the loft was pretty impressive. Other than that I don't own any down for the same reason JB says.

[nai]

Does Rab stuff still fall apart at the slightest touch as it did a few years ago?

I have a Neutrino Plus which would be a decent jacket if it wasn't for the zips which appear to be made out of Brie.  It's currently back with them for the third time in just under three years (although it obviously only get used for six months or less) having a fourth fitted.  So far it's cost about 50% of the original cost in repair costs and PnP.  They claim I'm being heavy handed with them but all I'm trying to do is open them from the bottom occasionally and that makes them stick, so you have to force it and that wears the teeth and it's a downward spiral from there.  I'm getting a chunky one fitted this time rather than the daft waterproof one, which makes it the only water repellant part of the coat.

[Andy F V2.0]

I've use the ME Fitzroy synthetic for the last few years. Warm enough for pretty much any UK weather, bombproof construction and great waterproofing. Picked it up for 80 notes in a Snow and Rock sale. Works very well with a cheapo down underneath for really stupidly cold conditions. Highly recommended 

[Johnny Brown]

My thoughts also..What would you recommend?

For days when I'm doing a fairly short session and expect to keep moving, an Arcteryx Atom LT Hoody over a t-shirt and Rab thermal. That did fine on Saturday when the air temp was minus 2 with significant wind chill. Beanie essential obvs. Option to add a thin fleece and lightweight waterproof if you like the layering.

If it's a longer session and I expect to be standing around, or going from thin layer for go then max warmth for rest, similar under layers then an Arcteryx Fission. The list price is insane (I won it in a photo comp) but you can get deals for £300-350. On a sub-zero calm day a £200 quid Rab is warmer, but only then. Mine isn't properly waterproof (they are now) but does fine in a shower unlike a Rab. However they are bombproof, no idea what the fabric is across the sleeves and shoulder but it is incredibly hard wearing. After five years it has no rips and it still looks vaguely smart after a wash.

Or you could spend £200 on the equivalent Arcteryx.

List for the Fission is £600 

[Muenchener]

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-warm-mens-jacket-id_8271763.html

Or you could spend £200 on the equivalent Arcteryx.

I have one of those Decathlon jackets and it's certainly good value for what you pay for it. The cut and materials aren't remotely in the same league as Arcteryx though.

A the lighter and of the scale, I had one of Montane's lightweight insulated jackets - Prism I think - and replaced with with an Arcteryx Atom LT that I picked up half price in a sale. Montane is certainly a decent firm, nothing against them, but the Arcteryx a hell of a lot better.

[GCW]

I've got a Mountain Hardware vest stylee and a North Face Nuptse with sleeves.  Had them both years and they have been great.  Vest type things are definitely better for bouldering.

I stand by this, but having seen some of the modern synthetic lightweight equivalents, there's no contest. Mine have been great, but the newer stuff is a step up.

EDIT: Was that REALLY seven years ago?????

[moose]

Happy with my Rab Neutrino Plus - box wall, 275g of 800 fill down - anything heavier duty and you're market for greater ranges expedition wear.  What I really like is that it has a very long body - no more pesky drafts below the belt line.   Got it cheap as it was the old non-hydrophobic down model.  The lack of waterproofing doesn't bother me - I don't boulder in the rain and it's always stood up to the odd rainy walk-in to the shelter of the Malham catwalk.

I've tried synthetic insulation alternatives (DAS Parkas, RAB primaloft filled jackets etc) but to me they never seem as warm and cosy as down for cold days spent mainly inactive.  The insulation also seems to lose potency after a few years.  Although, I like the lighter-weight synthetics for active-wear on cold days (I love my Patagonia Nanopuff as a fleece alternative).  That said, YMMV - my metabolism does run very cold, so if you have a less feeble constitution a synthetic might be warm enough and more suited to this damp isle.

[Andy F V2.0]

Happy with my Rab Neutrino Plus - box wall, 275g of 800 fill down - anything heavier duty and you're market for greater ranges expedition wear.  What I really like is that it has a very long body - no more pesky drafts below the belt line.   Got it cheap as it was the old non-hydrophobic down model.  The lack of waterproofing doesn't bother me - I don't boulder in the rain and it's always stood up to the odd rainy walk-in to the shelter of the Malham catwalk.

I've tried synthetic insulation alternatives (DAS Parkas, RAB primaloft filled jackets etc) but to me they never seem as warm and cosy as down for cold days spent mainly inactive.  The insulation also seems to lose potency after a few years.  Although, I like the lighter-weight synthetics for active-wear on cold days (I love my Patagonia Nanopuff as a fleece alternative).  That said, YMMV - my metabolism does run very cold, so if you have a less feeble constitution a synthetic might be warm enough and more suited to this damp isle.

Isn't your belayers who spend most of the day inactive? 

[moose]

Isn't your belayers who spend most of the day inactive? 

Sad but true (although, I recall spending very long days watching a certain someone climbing up and down and up and down sections of Air Rage / Quiet Flight at Kilnsey, agonising over clipping slings).  Anyhow, proves my point -one if the reasons I am an acute judge of warm clothing is that I always need to have a good down coat to donate to my chilled partner (when your only attribute is tenacity, it would be  a shame to be stymied by the premature hypothermia of a belayer).

[cha1n]

The waterproof zip (why?) on my Rab Neutrino endurance broke last year, so I only used my Rab Generator Alpine (synthetic) and I was alarmed to find that I never really missed my down jacket, apart from the lightness.

[cheque]

I've had a PHD one for years. Made in the UK by grannies so high scores on build quality as well as the moral-high-ground-o-meter. It's a lightweight stitch-through, press stud hood thing of the type that Fultonius disses above but it's never suffered from the problems he mentions. It has a unreassuringly small amount of down in it but it's very high quality stuff so is amazingly warm despite being thin and light. Only down side is that it looks like something you'd get off Mansfield market.

Got a Rab Positron (at cost price due to a mate who worked for Equip ) for this winter though- I think that's the new version of Moose's "next model up comes with an oxygen tank" thing- it's thick, heavy, posh-feeling and long and therefore even warmer. Haven't worn it much yet though so maybe it will fall apart and I'll be back in my filthy PHD.

[moose]

Re the above, I also found the waterproof zip of my Rab to stick and eventually jam irrevocably.  After one free replacement by Rab, I paid a local seamstresses £20 to replace the original zip with the heaviest duty chunky zip they could find.  I admit I am a heavy handed clot like me but it still seems a bit poor for a £300 jacket - that said its thermal performance meant I was prepared to go to the faff (I think they should make versions of these jackets for those with no pretensions to expeditions or "fast and light" or "extreme Alpinism" - but better suited to people who just want to keep incredibly warm whilst hanging around UK crags and who will bugger off to the climbing wall if it rains, i.e. high thermal performance but with weight very much a secondary consideration).

[Muenchener]

Agree with Moose on down vs synthetic. Synthetic for mountaineering when you might be out in actual bad weather, but down for standing around belaying etc. in the dry.

(My down jacket is from Alpkit. It's sewn through and has well dodgy stitching quality but thick, puffy and bright yellow. Suffices for my purposes)

[rodma]

On the designing jackets not for mountaineering, are there any ticket down jackets that have a hood that is head sized, rather than head plus helmet sized.

I've gone through a few rabs and the warmest is the pullover style (no hood) from years ago. I stopped wearing it bouldering cos it's a right pain of you've got achy shoulders (plus it can really flatten a hairdo)

[tomtom]

My alpkit one has lasted well but they don't seem to make them anymore

They're in they're 'coming soon' section... they tend to get a batch in pre Xmas that sell out fairly fast....