[DavidT]

So... Time to get a decent down jacket for the forthcoming winter chills and hours spent sitting around the crags eating sandwiches and making excuses for not being able to tackle that new route.

Thinking about buying either:
Mountain Equipment Classic Lightline Jacket
or
RAB Summit Jacket.

I hear good things about both but apparently the ME Lightline is lighter and more packable than the RAB, which might be a good thing as i do a fair bit of winter climbing and wild camping up in the North so weight and packable size might be an issue.

My head says go for the Mountain Equipment but my heart says go for the RAB. What a pickle I'm in.

Any suggestions on these two or others?

Ta.

[dave]

they used to say ME stuff was "all beaks and claws".

[magpie]

I've got a RAB, mines a smock type but from looking at pictures I reckon it's just a smock version of the one you're after, I'd say your probably better with the jacket than smock, I tend to get stuck half in / half out of mine when I try and put it on while wearing a helmet.  Zip up would be more practical I think.

Aside from that I adore it; it makes me sad when I have to take it off.    It's super cosy when you need it to be but also seems not to overheat you too much (this could just be me, I run very, very cold especially when winter climbing).  I've worn mine in Scotland and Rjukan and never had any issue with it.  It packs up reasonable small if you put in the effort, although you definitely get ones that go much smaller, and I've found it dries fine if it gets wet too which is a bonus.

I live in it when it's remotely cold, and most important and telling of all I love it even though it really doesn't look pretty or do me any favours in the slimming stakes  ???

I'm not sure what else there is to say about it?  Ask if you have specific questions.

Never tried an ME one so can't really compare / contrast for you.

[DavidT]

"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?

Used ME Down Sleeping Bags for years and had no probs... what are you thoughts on their jackets?

[lagerstarfish]

"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?

Poor quality down

[SA Chris]

Got a couple of mates have got the Alpkit ones, and are happy with them. No bells or whistles, and good price too.

I have a mountain hardware one, but hard to justify the cost unless you get one on sale. in the US.

[DavidT]

Magpie, any comments on how water-resistant they are.
I know that they are not designed to keep the rain out in downpours but is there any water-resistant qualities on the RAB's?

[Andy B]

I've used both ME and Rab, and would definitely prefer Rab, for quality, warmth, comfort and life span.

I find smocks cosier and less faffy for bouldering, but if you plan to use it on routes get a jacket, preferably with a zip that you can undo from the bottom, as it makes life easier when on belays, and means you can keep it mostly zipped up without it getting in the way of your belay plate.

[dave]

"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?

Used ME Down Sleeping Bags for years and had no probs... what are you thoughts on their jackets?

That anecdote was told to me by someone who worked for rab, so might have been a bit loaded.

I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore. My down jacket is a Rab circa 1997 and its still going strong. My shorties down jacket is a ME discount one from magic mountain in glossop, no real complaints (though she's not a heavery user, doesn't take it scottish winter climbing etc), so head there if you're thinking cheap. i'd certainly rather buy a ME factory second than buy an Aplkit full price.

The question of quality of a down jacket is hard to gauge though, you're talking about how well the down lasts after many years abuse, which is not going to be apparent in the shop.

[magpie]

Magpie, any comments on how water-resistant they are.

Not very, I've never worn it in proper rain but in heavy sleety snow I got soaked.  Well, the outer layer of the jacket got soaked and the down, I think, ended up a bit damp, none of the wet got through to me and it dried really well, you couldn't tell it had been wet.  The outside felt a lot damper than I expected but the inside was dryer than I thought it would be, if that makes sense?  All in, it held up better than I thought it would.

The actual outer material is really not waterproof at all though, the tougher patches on the shoulders seem to repel it slightly but the shiny stuff just sucks it right in.  Saying that, I wouldn't hesitate to wear mine in the snow and it's OK in sleet if you want to keep cosy and can hang it up somewhere warm to dry later.

Oh, and definitely what Andy says about smock versus zip, the smock is probably a lot warmer but less convenient on routes cause it's hard to get at your harness.

[magpie]

I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore.

I think it is true, at least for some of their stuff - including the down jackets, but I can't remember where I read it or who told me, so hardly a concrete answer 

[DavidT]

I had head that some of their new stuff is made in the far east too, difficult to know if thats had any impact on the quality though.

[magpie]

I only got mine at Christmas so it's obviously one of the newer ones if that makes any difference, doesn't say much about long term quality but I haven't had any issues so far.

[DavidT]

Probably going to go with the RAB, seems more hard-wearing than the ME.

I'm now undecided between the Summit Jacket and the Peak Smock.

I can get the Summit Jacket for £125 which seems like a pretty good deal, can't see the Peak Smock for less than £120 though. Am I right in assuming that the Peak doesn't have a down hood or any hood in that case?

Most of the time 'll be wearing it for spotting and winter walking i guess.

Decisions decisions.

Ta.

[magpie]

Mine's a Peak Smock, I recognise the name now you've said it, it was £80 or maybe £90 in the Tiso sale so you might be lucky price wise if you hunt about. 

It doesn't have a hood no, but I don't miss it, if it's cold I've always got a hat on or the hood of my soft shell up anyway.  Suppose it depends what you want to use it for, whether a hood is a big benefit or not.

[Zods Beard]

I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore. My down jacket is a Rab circa 1997 and its still going strong. My shorties down jacket is a ME discount one from magic mountain in glossop, no real complaints (though she's not a heavery user, doesn't take it scottish winter climbing etc), so head there if you're thinking cheap. i'd certainly rather buy a ME factory second than buy an Aplkit full price.

The question of quality of a down jacket is hard to gauge though, you're talking about how well the down lasts after many years abuse, which is not going to be apparent in the shop.

Dave speaks the truth here, Magic Mountain is worth checking, tho you may need a few trips to find what you want. My Mountain Equipment jacket is awesome, I live in it in the winter.

[Moo]

OK peeps lets try and keep the gear discussions to a minimum please we don't want to turn into UKC 

[Drew]

Get the Rab!









Or is that too UKC too?

[Zods Beard]

OK peeps lets try and keep the gear discussions to a minimum please we don't want to turn into UKC 

Now not the time to ask about what Hexes people recommend then?

[dave]

....or the number of times you should fall onto your rope before retiring it, is it two or three?

[Fiend]

Black Diamond ones on wire - easier to place in overhead placements, but the wire's still flexy enough to do without a quickdraw most of the time. I rate the small ones for mountain rock pockets too.

 

[Ena]

I got my 'new' duvet last year in Cambridge Oxfam for £12.50 including a John Betjeman first edition. Bet you can't top that for a bargain!

[underground]

"all beaks and claws"... Meaning?

Used ME Down Sleeping Bags for years and had no probs... what are you thoughts on their jackets?

That anecdote was told to me by someone who worked for rab, so might have been a bit loaded.

I think on a traditional reputation for quality i would go with Rab, but these days since its all made in the far east (is this true?) maybe thats not the case anymore. My down jacket is a Rab circa 1997 and its still going strong. My shorties down jacket is a ME discount one from magic mountain in glossop, no real complaints (though she's not a heavery user, doesn't take it scottish winter climbing etc), so head there if you're thinking cheap. i'd certainly rather buy a ME factory second than buy an Aplkit full price.

The question of quality of a down jacket is hard to gauge though, you're talking about how well the down lasts after many years abuse, which is not going to be apparent in the shop.

Rab was bought out by Equipe, in Alfreton - and i believe they now get the pertex shells made in China and bring them back to the UK to do the filling with down in Alfreton - if you look at Equipe's website many of the old staff from Rab are there now. Same company have also acquired podsacs now.

[nik at work]

I have an enormous Rab over-the-head job which is brilliant. Previously had a couple of ME jobbies but they fell to pieces pretty rapidly. The Rab is holding up very well (touch wood). I got it cheap in an Outside sale (about £60 I think) and it is completely the wrong size (XXXL or summat daft, I'm 5ft6) but it is ideal for bouldering/standing around on building sites. I wouldn't get an ME down again but will get the next cheap Rab I see.

Oh mines black but if you aren't bothered about colour I remember Sloper telling me he got his hideous vivid orange down for about twenty quid just because nobody else would dare to wear such a headache inducing colour...

[BVT]

Rab was bought out by Equipe, in Alfreton - and i believe they now get the pertex shells made in China and bring them back to the UK to do the filling with down in Alfreton - if you look at Equipe's website many of the old staff from Rab are there now. Same company have also acquired podsacs now.

Equipe have a factory shop too, so you may be able to pick up a bargain. It's open Wednesday and Thursday afternoons, but you're probably best giving them a ring before you make the journey - I'm not sure what the stock is like.