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little font (lakes) Q's (Read 9825 times)

Andy Harris

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little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 11:32:13 am
Was up in the Lakes recently and had a couple of sessions in Little Font. A beautiful little spot where as it said in Greg’s topo all the boulders had fallen just at the right point, angle and height to create this little area where normally  those boulder ruckles just don’t quite work out.

Had a few Q’s.

Did a super classic 7c called Karma of Trees but the supposed 8a start from the right looked impossible. To span from the mono you need the span of king kong and to match the crappy edges in the middle seemed a lot harder than 8a, especially with the crappy feet. Any beta?

Torniquet was brilliant and whilst I didn’t quite do it I thought easy to middling 8a. Not sure what the consensus is?

Tried little women and failed to do 2 moves. Almost did the move to the crystal pocket but the move from the minuscule RH edge to the LH sidepull was beyond me. I could barely pull on. Now I’m not to shabby on RH crimps but this move was heinous and that’s after the start and fish which is no push over. This cannot be 8a+. It must be at least solid 8b and not the Swiss variety. Anyone repeated this or grade consensus.

As for Shadow Play & the direct to Torniquet they both looked impossible. They didn’t look like the hardest problems in the world. They looked impossible. The rock here does look friable so maybe holds have snapped. The 8a+ looked 8c and I couldn’t conceive a sequence. Am I missing something.

Finally there’s an overhanging prow at the bottom starting on a  pocket, 7b or so I think. Says in the guide there’s a trick and whilst I flashed it, I could see no trick and just had to hang on real hard.

cheers

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#1 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 12:36:00 pm

Did a super classic 7c called Karma of Trees but the supposed 8a start from the right looked impossible. To span from the mono you need the span of king kong and to match the crappy edges in the middle seemed a lot harder than 8a, especially with the crappy feet. Any beta?


I spent ages trying this RH start a few years ago when I was really fit. I'm good on fingery stuff, too, but couldn't get near it. I think this is the start to KoT described originally by Si O C. I finally gave up and did the straight up version, which I though was superb. And hard enough!

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#2 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 12:46:48 pm
Impossible Si O problems? Surely not.

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#3 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 01:37:00 pm
Impossible Si O problems? Surely not.

Impossible for me, but I believe the RH start from the mono has been done by Gaskins. Greg C will know more.

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#4 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 01:40:30 pm
I'm obviously going to comment here Andy, but just bear in mind that I've not actually done any of these problems, in many cases I haven't even tried them! However I am familiar with them and can recognise a grading anomaly when I see it. I also know a bit of the history which might be helpful.

Had a few Q’s.

Did a super classic 7c called Karma of Trees but the supposed 8a start from the right looked impossible. To span from the mono you need the span of king kong and to match the crappy edges in the middle seemed a lot harder than 8a, especially with the crappy feet. Any beta?

No beta, never tried/seen tried. I agree though, seems ridiculous. This right hand start was in fact Simon Connor's original Karma of Trees line which he gave 8a. Greg did the sensible thing when he did the first non Si O' topo and described the classic stand up at 7c, this then became KoT and the right hand start was discarded as nonsense. Then Gaskins climbed the right hand start as described. This was around the time of Shadowplay, so obviously the grade is meaningless (remember that on this form he gave the Pil Box project 8a+, really 8b+?). Interestingly, I'm pretty sure that I have an e-mail from Si O' where he claims to have only done this RH start because he forgot his mat and didn't want to get his feet wet in the puddle beneath the stand-up, i.e. he flashed it?!

Quote
Torniquet was brilliant and whilst I didn’t quite do it I thought easy to middling 8a. Not sure what the consensus is?

No consensus yet since its only had one ascent in its current state. It used to be 7c+ until a very good flake foothold came off, Jordan reascended and gave it 8a+, it will need a few more ascents til consensus can be reached. Its obviously in that ballpark though.

Quote
Tried little women and failed to do 2 moves. Almost did the move to the crystal pocket but the move from the minuscule RH edge to the LH sidepull was beyond me. I could barely pull on. Now I’m not to shabby on RH crimps but this move was heinous and that’s after the start and fish which is no push over. This cannot be 8a+. It must be at least solid 8b and not the Swiss variety. Anyone repeated this or grade consensus.

Never tried it but again I agree! It looks sick! Only first hand info I have on this is from Gaz Parry who also said there was a fair few moves he couldn't touch, and was it a joke?! (It used to get 8a!).  He also mooted a guess of 8b. Originally a Si O' problem (there's a pic of him on it in the Lakesbloc gallery), he gave it 8a. Only repeat by Gaskins, who confirmed 8a (!) and did a traverse into it from the far right (start of Torniquet) which he gave 8b but is clearly 8b++++/impossible.

Quote
As for Shadow Play & the direct to Torniquet they both looked impossible. They didn’t look like the hardest problems in the world. They looked impossible. The rock here does look friable so maybe holds have snapped. The 8a+ looked 8c and I couldn’t conceive a sequence. Am I missing something.

As far as I know the 8a+, Re-invented Bright New Colour, starts kind of in the middle of nowhere by pulling on matched on a sideways flake then doing a single RH slap into the rail on Torniquet. A bit arbitary. Si O' original, given 8a+. Repeated by Gaskins, grade confirmed. Starting to notice a theme? Don't know anyone else who's tried it. As regards Shadowplay, nothing had broken last I visited in April (for a look while on a walk). The holds are very, very tiny, and there aren't any footholds. I went shortly after Gaskins did it and saw the holds with chalk on, and yes it did look like a joke. This is the problem that JohnnyG didn't publicise because of the Marcus Bock stuff, to play it down he deliberately gave it 8b+. He has since, at Greg's request, given it 8c. Quite obviously it is harder even than that. Actually I totally agree that it looks impossible, it is either a very elaborate hoax or evidence of how far ahead G was/is. I know what I believe......

......J.O.N.A.T.H.O.N.

Quote
Finally there’s an overhanging prow at the bottom starting on a  pocket, 7b or so I think. Says in the guide there’s a trick and whilst I flashed it, I could see no trick and just had to hang on real hard.

I think the trick was to pull on and double dyno joker style to the lip, but we were young and weak when we did this one.





Greg C

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#5 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 01:46:49 pm
Was up in the Lakes recently and had a couple of sessions in Little Font. A beautiful little spot where as it said in Greg’s topo all the boulders had fallen just at the right point, angle and height to create this little area where normally  those boulder ruckles just don’t quite work out.

Had a few Q’s.

Did a super classic 7c called Karma of Trees but the supposed 8a start from the right looked impossible. To span from the mono you need the span of king kong and to match the crappy edges in the middle seemed a lot harder than 8a, especially with the crappy feet. Any beta?
I agree the sitter/low start to this seems heinous, it was graded 8a by O'conor and Gaksins repeated and said the grade was right, thus why it's graded as such on my topo. I'm quite happy to accept it's harder.

Quote
Torniquet was brilliant and whilst I didn’t quite do it I thought easy to middling 8a. Not sure what the consensus is?
I haven't done this since the original foothold broke. Jordan reckoned it was harder than/as hard as Mr. Fantastic, and Gaz and Ian said they thought it was nails. As far as I know nobody has repeated it since Jordan. Gaskins has been out and about a bit of late, so he may of done it. That said, there's not really any point asking him for feedback on the grade.

Quote
Tried little women and failed to do 2 moves. Almost did the move to the crystal pocket but the move from the minuscule RH edge to the LH sidepull was beyond me. I could barely pull on. Now I’m not to shabby on RH crimps but this move was heinous and that’s after the start and fish which is no push over. This cannot be 8a+. It must be at least solid 8b and not the Swiss variety. Anyone repeated this or grade consensus.
Similar scenario with The Karma of Trees; in that it was given 8a by SOC and Gaskins, after climbing it, whimsically agreed with the grade. I realized there was no way it was 8a thus the upgrade to 8a+. Whether it's 8b or not I don't know.

Quote
As for Shadow Play & the direct to Torniquet they both looked impossible. They didn’t look like the hardest problems in the world. They looked impossible. The rock here does look friable so maybe holds have snapped. The 8a+ looked 8c and I couldn’t conceive a sequence. Am I missing something.
I asked Gaskins for beta on these lines when I did the guide but other than confirming the lines were correct he didn't get back to me with exact beta, I agree they look nigh on impossible.

Quote
Finally there’s an overhanging prow at the bottom starting on a  pocket, 7b or so I think. Says in the guide there’s a trick and whilst I flashed it, I could see no trick and just had to hang on real hard.

The trick is high right heel (maybe 7a+ with this), but if you didn't need it doesn't really matter.

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#6 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 01:49:18 pm


Quote
As for Shadow Play & the direct to Torniquet they both looked impossible. They didn’t look like the hardest problems in the world. They looked impossible. The rock here does look friable so maybe holds have snapped. The 8a+ looked 8c and I couldn’t conceive a sequence. Am I missing something.

As far as I know the 8a+, Re-invented Bright New Colour, starts kind of in the middle of nowhere by pulling on matched on a sideways flake then doing a single RH slap into the rail on Torniquet. A bit arbitary. Si O' original, given 8a+. Repeated by Gaskins, grade confirmed. Starting to notice a theme? Don't know anyone else who's tried it. As regards Shadowplay, nothing had broken last I visited in April (for a look while on a walk). The holds are very, very tiny, and there aren't any footholds. I went shortly after Gaskins did it and saw the holds with chalk on, and yes it did look like a joke. This is the problem that JohnnyG didn't publicise because of the Marcus Bock stuff, to play it down he deliberately gave it 8b+. He has since, at Greg's request, given it 8c. Quite obviously it is harder even than that. Actually I totally agree that it looks impossible, it is either a very elaborate hoax or evidence of how far ahead G was/is. I know what I believe......

......J.O.N.A.T.H.O.N.

Quote
Finally there’s an overhanging prow at the bottom starting on a  pocket, 7b or so I think. Says in the guide there’s a trick and whilst I flashed it, I could see no trick and just had to hang on real hard.

I think the trick was to pull on and double dyno joker style to the lip, but we were young and weak when we did this one.


A theme? They both climb problems that others think are impossible? They both climb without witnesses? Also without evidence? When they, both, are seen climbing they don't live up to the hype? Is there really a theme Nigel?

Oh, and I believe Jesus is spelt with an H in the middle.

Greg C

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#7 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 01:54:15 pm
Hey Nige quite a few bits of out of date info/incorrect beta in your feedback, you've been away too long sunshine. Better leave this sort of thing to old bad memory Chapman in future.  ;)

EDIT:
I just reread your post and there aren't really any major errors (I just wanted to pretend I could remember more than you for once), in fact your reply is generally more detailed than mine, I'll just shut up... wait, whats this, you missed out the vital info regarding the high heel trick on Base Line Venom.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 02:17:04 pm by Greg C »

Bonjoy

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#8 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 02:14:52 pm

A theme? They both climb problems that others think are impossible? They both climb without witnesses? Also without evidence? When they, both, are seen climbing they don't live up to the hype? Is there really a theme Nigel?

Oh, and I believe Jesus is spelt with an H in the middle.
I take it you're applying this thematic rigour even handedly across the board and without bias? Surely you wouldn't be making wry observations about some, whilst idolising others?  :whistle:
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 02:35:28 pm by Bonjoy »

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#9 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 02:51:17 pm
Here here.

Andy Harris

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#10 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 03:14:20 pm
175 viewings in 2h 10mins of what in the grand scheem of the world is utterly meaningless to all but 0.0000000000000000000001% of the population. Then bang in 2mins all the detail you could ever ask for. Isn't the web amazing.

Way back when I heard of this area in Switzerland that a wad called Fred was doing some hard stuff at. A French guy on the scene had been to this place called Cresciano and said how bon it was. A few weeks later he faxed me a map and a bit of info and I arranged to meet a friend at a church in the village near it called Biasca. Booked the flights and a hire car and miraculusly met my friend at the church, found our way to the crag with a bad faxed map and had a great trip. How the web has made things easier and open to the masses.

I'll be back for another go on Torniquet and if anyone has the specific beta for Little Women I'm still interested.

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#11 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 03:43:37 pm

A theme? They both climb problems that others think are impossible? They both climb without witnesses? Also without evidence? When they, both, are seen climbing they don't live up to the hype? Is there really a theme Nigel?

Oh, and I believe Jesus is spelt with an H in the middle.
I take it you're applying this thematic rigour even handedly across the board and without bias? Surely you wouldn't be making wry observations about some, whilst idolising others?  :whistle:

Touche!  :lol:

I can only believe what my eyes see (and that's not even true 100% of the time) and what is logically water tight. So, I suppose I have the privilege of having used my eyes so now I wouldn't make wry observations whilst idolising others.  Point taken though, as not everyone witnesses everything, and thus people bring different experiences/thoughts to the table.

I'm sure you know my previous post was in Jest... what's that song by the smiths?

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#12 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 03:46:06 pm
I'm sure you know my previous post was in Jest... what's that song by the smiths?

Jack the Ripper?
Cheers for all the above guys, makes an interesting read.

Bonjoy

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#13 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 03:58:48 pm
Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others ?

nik at work

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#14 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 04:04:28 pm
Big Mouth Strikes Again?

tc

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#15 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 04:06:56 pm
"Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before?" is rather appropriate, I feel  ;)

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#16 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 04:16:27 pm
I Started Something I Couldn't Finish?

tc

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#17 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 03, 2008, 04:24:07 pm
I Started Something I Couldn't Finish?

Bugger! Beat me to it!

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#18 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 04, 2008, 10:33:51 am
That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore.

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#19 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 04, 2008, 10:39:31 am
No it's not funny mate, my girlfriend's in a coma.

tc

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#20 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 04, 2008, 10:57:37 am
and Heaven Knows You're Miserable Now, I bet?

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#21 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 04, 2008, 11:03:03 am
Charming, man.

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#22 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 04, 2008, 11:10:28 am
Don't worry William, it was really nothing.

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#23 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 04, 2008, 11:17:41 am
Apologies Andy for causing a genuine thread to go so off topic. I accept full responsibility. However, the responses have cracked me up so much. Who knew there were so many smiths songs that fit the bill... I fear you lot have only scratched the surface. I'm surprised nobody mentioned "the boy with a thorn in his side"... I can hear Doyle, Mule, Nige singing right now;

How can they look into my eyes
And still they don't believe me ?
How can they hear me say those words
Still they don't believe me ?
And if they don't believe me now
Will they ever believe me ?
And if they don't believe me now
Will they ever, they ever, believe me ?
Oh ...

How can they see the Love in our eyes
And still they don't believe us ?
And after all this time
They don't want to believe us
And if they don't believe us now
Will they ever believe us ?
And when you want to Live
How do you start ?
Where do you go ?
Who do you need to know ?



BenF

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#24 Re: little font (lakes) Q's
July 04, 2008, 11:43:46 am
Apologies Andy for causing a genuine thread to go so off topic.

Yeah well, What Difference Does It Make?

 

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