a bad sport route is just as worthless as a bad trad route.
Quotea bad sport route is just as worthless as a bad trad route. Not quite. An unpopular trad route effectively disappears as soon as the chalk washes away. A sport route has a permanent physical presence that is impossible to reverse. The quarries may be a good place for experimentation but trends inevitably spread. Folk should be wary of an attitude that in a quarry, anything goes. Respect for the rock as a precious and limited resource is something that needs to be nurtured within the community.
Not quite. An unpopular trad route effectively disappears as soon as the chalk washes away. A sport route has a permanent physical presence that is impossible to reverse.
Come on JB, get real! Trad routes get cleaned, have pegs or threads placed upon them, bear the scars of over used gear placements, polish etc - none of these things disappear after a rain shower.
They could have rusty pegs on them, and still show evidence of heavy cleaning. My point is that it is not as b/w as JB is suggesting. A de-geared sport route, if done well (old bolt holes neatly filled etc) need not be an eye sore.
Quote from: Paz on July 17, 2008, 01:06:54 pmIt seems the slate scene isn't as united as you would have us believe Simon. Before you get carried away with yourself Paz - we were discussing the situation of last year. Things have changed of late and I know that in the last month or two a few people have questioned the quality of some of the new routes.
It seems the slate scene isn't as united as you would have us believe Simon.
That statement is true. I never met a single person at the crag who thought the new wave of sport routes or the re-equipping program was a bad thing. There were hundreds of climbers turning up in the quarries at this time. It seemed very obvious to me that the online furore was not reflected on the ground.
All my trad first ascents have been done with the ethic of leaving as little impact as possible.In the eighties and nineties a big reason bolts were placed sparingly was to retained some adventure and hence avoid being chopped. We all know how Joe Brown's two pegs per pitch rule was adopted. (And yes I know they were skint). I see allowing 'sub-prime' areas of rock to be bolted as a bad precedent.
And that yeah maybe me and others you mention did come out with a lot of `vitriol', but now I for one am sort of sitting back thinking, well I hate to say I told you so...
All my trad first ascents have been done with the ethic of leaving as little impact as possible.
I see allowing 'sub-prime' areas of rock to be bolted as a bad precedent. As is pointed out above, these may become more popular than the trad routes around them.
From UKC its obvious most climbers don't understand that the act of drilling is fundamentally at odds with the act of climbing a cliff using your own skill and what the rock offers.
Wait and see what happens <paraphrased Pantontino's words>
sport bolting was fully accepted by the mid/late 80s.
Quotesport bolting was fully accepted by the mid/late 80s.Hardly. The first sport route in the peak was put up in 1983, and the bolts were out and back in several times over the next few years. When did Frankie get bolted?By the early nineties sport bolting was accepted on certain areas of certain crags, and above certain grades. Mid-grade sport wasn't accepted until the late nineties, harpur hill was mid nineties remember, you could hardly call that accepted.
This is why I'm still waiting to find a beautiful route or line on the slate that hasnt been done yet and is Fr 6c/7a ish so I could make it into a cracking designer danger low E grade route. Si, if you have any ideas on areas to look then please let me know!
Sport bolting isn't "fully accepted" now, if you're going to state specific cases, or this discussion wouldn't be happening. Shirley?
Quote from: Will Hunt on July 18, 2008, 12:51:23 amI'm still waiting to find a beautiful route or line on the slate that hasnt been done yet
I'm still waiting to find a beautiful route or line on the slate that hasnt been done yet
Quote from: Will Hunt on July 18, 2008, 12:51:23 amThis is why I'm still waiting to find a beautiful route or line on the slate that hasnt been done yet and is Fr 6c/7a ish so I could make it into a cracking designer danger low E grade route. Si, if you have any ideas on areas to look then please let me know!Will, F6c/7a, plus a ground sweeping fall potential would not be a low grade extreme - it might even be E6!I know of a few choice lines, but I'm hardly going to let them go. Just go for a trek around, particularly in the less visited areas and you will soon find something. There is an enormous amount of rock in the quarries. If you do make a designer danger route (or even if you make a clip up), make sure you give it a thorough cleaning and remember slate is not always the most trustworthy medium; holds can snap unexpectedly.
I cant say that I'm a big fan of all these new sport routes that are being put up. Thats why I generally dont climb them ...